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Hotfile Battles MPAA Over Private User Data Disclosure

Earlier this year, member companies of the MPAA filed a lawsuit against the Hotfile file-hosting service and ever since the parties have been back and forth submitting and responding to court papers. Now it seems that the MPAA want Hotfile to hand over just about every piece of data the company holds, from the IP addresses of uploaders and downloaders to the company’s source code.

For Disney, Twentieth Century Fox, Universal, Columbia and Warner, their battle with the Hotfile cyberlocker service is developing into a costly and complicated affair.

The MPAA, who would love a decisive victory against a cyberlocker service under their belt, probably selected Hotfile because of its relative lack of might when compared to market leaders RapidShare and MegaUpload. The company also has a track record of settling lawsuits rather than fighting them. The outcome in the case, whichever way it goes, will have serious implications for others in the same field in the United States.

At this stage there are no indications Hotfile will roll over in this case, but as pages and pages of legal papers are filed and responded to, it is becoming increasingly clear that the MPAA is determined to play hardball.

In a filing from Hotfile dated June 17th, the company bemoans the tactics employed by the MPAA, describing their requests for information as “over-reaching” and tantamount to “murder by litigation.”

So what data does the MPAA want from Hotfile? In a single word – everything.

“In five short demands for documents and two related interrogatories, Plaintiffs seek all data referring to all files hosted by Hotfile, all data about Hotfile’s users, all data about Hotfile’s business partners [aka affiliates], every line of source code ever written, and virtually every conceivable piece of financial data available regarding Hotfile or its business partners or its individual founders,” Hotfile’s legal time write.

Nevertheless, it appears that up to a point Hotfile is prepared to comply with the requests of the MPAA. However, as the tables below show, the company is trying to protect the identities of users and affiliates as much as it can.

Hotfile v MPAA

The MPAA’s requests for disclosure go beyond user data. The Hollywood outfit is demanding that Hotfile hands over every version of the site’s source code that has ever existed.

Hotfile is currently resisting that request, describing its code as a trade secret which took two people more than 1,000 hours to create. Hotfile’s software gives it a competitive advantage, its legal team argues, and it would prove catastrophic if it fell into the wrong hands.

The case is becoming increasingly complex and is already developing into a bloody legal brawl. Will Hotfile continue to resist the temptation to settle in the face of “murderous litigation”, or will it concede defeat in the face of overwhelming opposition and financial resources?

Hotfile uploaders, downloaders and affiliates will certainly be hoping for the former.

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  • Mr.Afghanistan

    HotFile, please release your source!!!!!
    We will create another 100 HotFile*.com

    We will see who will sue and stop us. Personally myself i will get a 30tb dedicated server with 2Gbit connection speed from leaseweb.com and host a site similar to hotfile.com if i get the source of it somehow. I really want HotFile to make their files open source.

    I hope hotfile make his source public “Open Source” ;)

    Waiting…. ^_^

    • Anon

      Lol Hotfile doesn’t want you to create 100 other clone sites because that would completely kill off their business and profits. Why do you think two people from Hotfile spent 1000 hours to develop their software? So that you can benefit from it? Hell No. How could you be so gullible? They did it so that they can attract customers to buy their premium service off which they make healthy profit. Even the article mentions how Hotfile lawyers are trying hard to protect the software’s source code as its a trade secret.

      • FUCK!NGu3st

        but hotfile deserves what it get for literary ripping its users not a year ago to satisfy the MAFFIA… why the FUCK don’t they do like TPB, Megaupload and MAN THE FUCK UP!
        I’m all torrents baby :D

        • Anonymous

          Because Hotfile seems a better target for the MAFIAA

      • FIBER0PTIC

        If it took 2 guys over 1000 hours to create they need to find another profession. Blindfolded chimp with a pencil in its mouth can write that code in less time.

        They had a good run, next exploit please:

        FIBER0PTIC

        • Mike

          40 days is a very short time to code an an entire commercial web site project and arrange all it’s infrastructure for 2 people. YMMV of course.

      • Oogabooga

        Ohhhh…you mean it’s bad to get software for free? :o I’m so fooked!

    • Noah C.

      -sigh-

      This is called greed, people.

      • Mr.Afghanistan

        Not greed jackass.
        It’s called not being unique, hotfile will go down 100%, i can assure you ;)
        hotfile is making $ because they are hosting illegal movies/mp3s/softwares/games!

        If there were 30-40 sites like hotfile, “same service”, they wouldn’t go after hotfile.com only, instead they would make a law to outlaw all these services, not just shutdown one single cyberlocker like hotfile.com

        rapidshare is already taken down by anti piracy, no one is using rapidshare because they are deleting illegal files like mp3/movie etc…

        If hotfile goes down, i am 100% confident hotfile openers will make the source open source, it’s not about making money, it’s all about not giving up !!!

      • Mr.Afghanistan

        Not greed jackass.
        It’s called not being unique, hotfile will go down 100%, i can assure you ;)
        hotfile is making $ because they are hosting illegal movies/mp3s/softwares/games!

        If there were 30-40 sites like hotfile, “same service”, they wouldn’t go after hotfile.com only, instead they would make a law to outlaw all these services, not just shutdown one single cyberlocker like hotfile.com

        rapidshare is already taken down by anti piracy, no one is using rapidshare because they are deleting illegal files like mp3/movie etc…

        If hotfile goes down, i am 100% confident hotfile openers will make the source open source, it’s not about making money, it’s all about not giving up !!!

        • Anon

          You don’t get it do you? Cyber lockers are in this business with the sole intention of making money. They won’t make their software open source because they couldn’t give a rat’s ass about the pirates. If they didn’t profit from piracy, they would have shut down by now.

        • M8R-0em6ry

          Just so you know, there are more than 30-40 sites like hotfile. ;)

        • M8R-0em6ry

          Just so you know, there are more than 30-40 sites like hotfile. ;)

    • Anonymous

      I am sure if anyone had the $2 million needed for 400+ servers to host a file locker service then some source code to pull it all together is not that major.

      • FIBER0PTIC

        They did not outlay all that cash and hardware the same time, What was the start-up figure?

        FIBER0PTIC

    • http://twitter.com/K1rkpad Dylan Kirkpatrick

      LOL OPEN SOURCING AN OCH WEBSITE? IS THIS GUY SERIOUS? AND WHY SO MANY LIKES? I’M YELLING BECAUSE I’M ASHAMED AT TF USERS.

      ;D

      • Mr.Afghanistan

        you are yelling because you are a retard ;)
        and clicked “Like” to confirm you are a 100% retard :P

    • Acheron

      Why cant Hotfile just fucking ERASE all their logs? Why keep all this data on users in the first place? I can understand keeping some info on affiliates to prevent fraud/cookie stuffing, but theres no use! If they erase the logs, the MPAA cant demand it. How is it hotfiles “responsibility” to hold any private info on its users? Pure insanity.

      • Ven

        They have a premium service, so they have to be able to comply with the IRS regarding financial information of customers.

        And like all websites, they are required to maintain certain amounts of user data as required by data retention laws (which vary depending on where each server is located).

        • Acheron

          I see, thanks for clearin that up ;)

      • Ven

        They have a premium service, so they have to be able to comply with the IRS regarding financial information of customers.

        And like all websites, they are required to maintain certain amounts of user data as required by data retention laws (which vary depending on where each server is located).

      • Yoki

        I read their tos before and was totally like wtf. Why would anyone upload here and now we have this…

        • Plop

          People use it because it’s what is now being called ‘cloud storage’. I don’t see any major difference between sites like this or sites like dropbox. Sure, with dropbox you can limit which users have access, but you can also upload to a public directory which anyone has access to.

          If the MAFIAA can close down a cloud storage service based on some of the users’ activities then the entire business of cloud storage has become too financially risky for anybody but the really big players like Apple, Amazon or Microsoft to enter.

          Once again the MAFIAA are trying to unfairly stifle competition and innovation in the marketplace. That they want to get their hands on the source code supports this.

    • Andrew

      Why dont you write your own? Its not like its a terribly complicated….

    • Pedro

      kinda an idiot mr taliban

  • Anon

    These stories don’t surprise me anymore at all.

    After all, how are the lawyers going to keep their ridiculously high salaries if they don’t find someone to sue? We may have reached a point in time when we have way too many lawyers in this world.
    I think a cull is needed as soon as possible before the earth is laid waste to these bloodsuckers
    Either that, or shut down law schools for a few decades until the natural balance is restored

  • http://twitter.com/david_boulton David Boulton

    The fact that you value your “competitive advantage”, kind of sounds like an admittion of the fact that you intend to go on profiting from copyright infringement. Otherwise, what makes you think you can go on making any money without copyright infringement taking place on your site?

    So yeah, I agree with the above. Don’t hand it over the MPAA, release it to the internets.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay

      I was just about to *facepalm*…

      Then I read your last sentence.

      Good saving throw. :)

    • Anonymous

      There are plenty of people using these sites for legal files to make profit. Should Google give away its source and that of YouTube because people upload copywrong files?

    • Plop

      “what makes you think you can go on making any money without copyright infringement taking place on your site?”

      Two words = Cloud Storage

      I don’t know if you’ve been watching much tech news over the past couple of years, but those two words together have become one of the biggest buzz words in the tech community.

      If Amazon can launch the same kind of service and not rely on copyright infringement to survive (unless of course they ARE relying solely on infringement) then why not anyone else?

      Just the MAFIAA trying to run small companies out of town again.

      • Plop

        But yeah, open sourcing would totally negate the MAFIAA moves too… ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/orfetheo Orfeas Theofanis

    ” Now it seems that the MPAA want Hotfile to hand over just about every piece of data the company holds, from the IP addresses of uploaders and downloaders to the company’s source code.”
    WHAT THE HELL?????????

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay

    The kitchen sink comes separately.

  • Anon

    Lol @ hypocrisy.

    To all those who think filesharing is about free speech – it ain’t.

    Hotfile is profitable, they made that profit by encouraging people to share desirable content, now they need to protect that profit.

    • Momo

      Sense. Your comment makes none.

      Keeping their source code secret does not interact with my free speech rights in any way. Copyright law, OTOH, tries to control what I say, think and do, and is in full conflict with a whole bunch of my most basic rights.

      In other words, you are a hypocrite a troll, not to mention an enemy of human rights and an enemy of the internet and the social change it allows. You have no interest in helping creators adapt to the digital age, you only care about shilling for the MPAA and your pathetic vendetta against the pirates — and I bet you can’t even remember why the pirates bug you any more, you only have some vague rationalizations that you couldn’t bring yourself to question.

      GTFO this website, jackass.

      • Anon

        Copyright law doesn’t infringe on your right to freedom of speech jackass. If you had studied elementary Civics, you would have known even the most basic fundamental human rights come with certain limits. In other words you can’t abuse your fundamental rights or your rights. Freedom of speech doesn’t entitle you to share information which may be deemed to be facilitating crimes.

        At the same time, living in a free world, doesn’t grant you the right to get away with whatever you think is the right thing to do. Copyright law might not suit you but it suits other people, the people who create stuffs you download, the people who actually matter!

        • comintagetcha

          “the people who actually matter! ” you self important little snot.!!
          Have a vested interest eh?
          Along with your inflated opinion of yourself ..go forth and phuque yourself !
          let’s hope a time will come when your anonimity here is breached and a sharp steel object finds its way plunged repeatedly into your face until you stfu for eternity ;~]

        • Momo

          It most certainly does, assclown. You claim you studied Civics? Sounds like nothing stuck except the stuff about aristocracy and totalitarianism.

          It is my civic duty to stand up for my rights, which copyright is trampling all over. Copyright was extended from being a time and scope-limited monopoly imposed on publishers and printing companies to something that interferes with what I can say, sing, draw, do with my computer, do with my internet connection, my privacy etc etc. It’s out of control and it DOES interfere with my rights as well as everyone else’s.

          “the people who actually matter”??? You think you matter more than everyone else? Fucked up is what you are. Get it through your thick troll skull that copyright law needs to be changed to be for the benefit of everyone, not just yours.

        • Anon

          Inflated opinion of myself? I neither create digital products nor am I associated with the entertainment industry in any way.

          Btw I find your little outrage quite comical if I might say so :)

        • Anon

          “Copyright was extended from being a time and scope-limited monopoly imposed on publishers and printing companies to something that interferes with what I can say, sing, draw, do with my computer, do with my internet connection, my privacy etc etc. ”

          How exactly is copyright law interfering with what you can say, sing, draw with your computer? Explain.

          You can still say anything as long as it within limits. This is not something related with copyright law at all. Even before copyright law existed, you still couldn’t abuse your freedom of speech to facilitate unlawful activities.

          Copyright law never dictated what you can sing. Go right ahead and sing your own version of a copyrighted song and upload it to Youtube. Loads of people do it and its perfectly legal.

          Copyright law also never dictated what you paint. Once again you are free to draw your own version of a copyrighted painting and its perfectly legal.

          Copyright Law’s only intention is to prevent you from making copies of a digital product unlawfully and distribute it on a mass scale for free. If a person created a particular product, shouldn’t he/she hold the sole discretion to decide who he/she permits to duplicate his/her work?

        • Zzzzz

          “Copyright law might not suit you but it suits other people, the people who create stuffs you download, the people who actually matter! ”
          I think I might know why you’re so bitter.
          I think you could be a failed artist of some kind, most likely a failed musician.
          What happened, did your music suck and not sell? I bet that really hurt your obvious ego so much that you’re in denial and blaming your unpopularity on piracy.
          Face it you tone deaf twit, you suck and the sooner you realise it the sooner you can get yourself a life and stop annoying people.

        • Anonymous

          “How exactly is copyright law interfering with what you can say, sing, draw with your computer? Explain.

          Copyright law never dictated what you can sing. Go right ahead and sing your own version of a copyrighted song and upload it to Youtube. Loads of people do it and its perfectly legal.”

          Easy. People have been arrested for lip syncing now, and laws are going into affect in certain US states right now to make it illegal to lip sync to songs. There’s your violation right there.

          Copyright law needs a reform. I don’t agree with it in its current form. It is way too invasive and ridiculous that I don’t even know what to do with it anymore. One of my friends told me that it was made for people to make a profit from for hopefully 7 or so years in the original form. It has since been extended to the following: Copyright is now the entire life of the author or whatever, plus an additional 70 years after death. That is extremely long and unnecessary. If people can’t make a profit within 10 years, they need to think of something else and move on.

          I say, make copyright last about 7-10 years or so. If that person can make a profit within that time, its a success and he’d be better off even after it expires because he/she would know that it was for the good of people. However, if someone can’t make the profit within the time, the idea flopped, and needs a revamp, hence when it becomes public domain, someone can improve and expand on the idea further, to benefit from the intended use.

          “Copyright law might not suit you but it suits other people, the people who create stuffs you download, the people who actually matter!”

          In its current form of copyright, it is only made to suit the big businesses and those that lobby heavily in the US Government. (MPAA, RIAA, whatever..) It is made to work against the common person and only benefit those so that MAFIAA can out-right sue people to make a profit from further just because someone wants to demo a movie before that person decides to make an actual purchase.

        • Anon

          “I say, make copyright last about 7-10 years or so. If that person can make a profit within that time, its a success and he’d be better off even after it expires because he/she would know that it was for the good of people.”

          Why does the time frame of copyright even matter to you? Even if the copyright is reduced to a mere 2 years, would you wait 2 years to download a movie? I doubt it. People can’t even wait 3 months for a Blu-Ray rip of a movie to come out and would rather download CAMs. With such impatient people around, the time frame of copyright doesn’t make much difference.

        • Yagga

          I shall now share information which could facilitate a crime. “Get in a car and drive faster than the posted speed limit.”

          There – now should my right to say that be restricted or would such restriction be limiting my freedom of speech?

          Either you have freedom of speech or you don’t. There is no middle ground. Any restriction at all means that speech isn’t free by definition.

        • Anonymous

          I don’t think you get it. Yes people are greedy, its human nature. At the same time, not everyone is like that. I’d be more than happy to wait 7 years before something goes public domain, certainly much better than waiting 160 years.. oh wait, humans can’t live that long.. never mind.

          Point is, not everyone is impatient. Some can wait, others, like the greed they have, can’t.

        • FIBER0PTIC

          FAIRUSE

  • Jessica_m

    Hmm…maybe the MPAA wants to start their own cyberlocker. Full of trailers and those 30 second snippets of songs. Honeypot!

  • Quest

    is the MPAA replacing our governments and/or religions or what?

    Why is the MPAA so powerful? All they do is sell us entertainment! Is that the new basis of the world’s economy? Entertainment???

    How have we ever allowed entertainers and their representatives to gain so much power?

    • Ven

      People have allowed mass distribution to replace local entertainment. Look at music:

      - When radio first took off, lazy listeners could decide to listen to what the radio told them to.
      - When record players got big, you could read newspaper ads and be told by friends who you really wanted to listen to.
      - When television hit, it was the next version of radio.
      - Internet —> radio 3.0

      So basically, they have money and power because people are too lazy to think for themselves and find their own favorite forms of entertainment. Don’t blame the industries: entrepreneurs would have figured this out if someone else hadn’t already. Blame lazy people.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay

        We didn’t *allow* it. The problem is, large corporations want to control the next generation of entertainment. Cut off the websites, cut off the advertisers from “rogue sites”, and the thinking is, you can bring back the 90s.

        Problem is, people are diversifying where their money is going and it isn’t to the big boys anymore. Sure, rapidshare gets caught now. But where’s the guarantee that more people will buy from the MAFIAA?

  • Anon

    They want all the source code so they can start their own “legal” profitable version HAHAHA.

    • Acheron

      I hope they do it, and spend many thousands of man hours and millions of $$ making it.. I’ll be glad to DDoS it for months, along with all the other anti-sec members.

      • Anon

        “along with all the other anti-sec members”

        You mean all the anti-social members of the society right?

  • http://www.facebook.com/prunn Bruno Lévesque

    hotfile is clearly on their side, they done massive deletes of illegal files and the MPAA are still bashing against them?
    they wont stop untill they own the whole internet!

    • Ven

      The problem in their mind is that, if Hotfile is not able to control the flow of illegal files (which they aren’t), then IP distribution is happening illegally and Hotfile is allowing it to continue unchecked.

      The MPAA has a track record of going after sites that take a passive approach to illegal file distribution – even Youtube had quite the uphill battle before being left alone.

  • Mafiozo

    so, how come people cant demand the same type of information from MAFIAA? i mean, who exactly they work for, how many people they employ, their salaries, the amount per settlement that is forward to the artists, etc etc? what these companies do is BS they keep telling everyone they live in a cardboard box and expect people to give them money.. how bout no? and anyway, i expect at least 60% of the employees commit crimes on a day to day basis, complete and utter disregard for the law, and their schemes for making money =.=” wow on a whole new level, even the scammers are picking up new tricks..

    • Anon

      People can’t demand the same information from MPAA because they haven’t committed any crime unlike you. They haven’t download any of your creation without permission have they? They aren’t making profits off other’s work without offering them some sort of deal or compensation are they? Then on what basis, can you demand information from the MPAA?

    • Anon

      People can’t demand the same information from MPAA because they haven’t committed any crime unlike you. They haven’t download any of your creation without permission have they? They aren’t making profits off other’s work without offering them some sort of deal or compensation are they? Then on what basis, can you demand information from the MPAA?

      • Hg

        Beacause, in essence, the MPAA and RIAA and the european equivalents are just self serving, self perpetuating outfits. They spend a fortune of the money they collect for their clients on their anti internet agenda, and then when they do get a rare victory, they turn round and decide to keep the money for MORE anti internet activities. Their clients, rather than actually benefitting from their activities, are in all likelyhood worse off.

        As to the copyright law not suiting us ( I assume youe the same ANON troll from above), I dont think that the copyright law in its current, pre-technology, form suits anyone bar a select few. Personally I dont believe that it was ever in the public interest, but with the advent of digitalisation and high speed communications, the laws need a serious re-think. However, the copywrongers are reluctant for the laws to be changed because in all probability the outcome of the changes would not be positive for them.

        • Anon

          “Personally I dont believe that it was ever in the public interest,”

          Interesting that you say, the Copyright Law was never made in public interest. So who exactly constitute the public? You and friends who like to pirate are part of the public but the people who work in the entertainment industry aren’t part of the public? Wow amazing logic!

        • Ven

          I don’t think copyright and patent law suits more than a small percentage because the rights therein are only put to use by a select few.

          If 99% of us never invent something worth a patent or write something worth a copyright, it would be on principle alone that any of that 99% would support copyright. Since it’s in human nature to be selfish and greedy (and I don’t mean that as a crack against file-sharers, it is quite an accepted fact), it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if most people didn’t like copyright and patent law. Adding to that, I would argue that most people don’t understand the law: why it exists, how it has changed over the last centuries, and so forth.

          Of course, I will gladly argue forever that the majority of people in this world are stupid. Which is why logic should guide lawmaking and not simply public support. If it hadn’t been for a select few intelligent men (notably Thomas Jefferson), the United States would have been a religious nation. And we all know how well limitations on religion work out…

          If copyright is wrong, prove it logically.

        • Anon

          @Ven, completely agree with you mate.

      • Anonymous

        The same basis as you. He can assume they are committing crimes. Just the way you’re assuming he is. Jackass.

        • Anon

          In the case of Hotfile, its not a matter of assumption anymore, Jackass. Warez forums are flooded with hotfile links of basically any mainstream movie to come out in the last 10 years. Its now beyond a reasonable doubt that hotfile was/is being used by its users to infringe on copyright.

          As for owners of Hotfile, there is no way in the world they can claim they weren’t aware of what was being uploaded to their servers for the last 2 years since at one time they even used the scene release title of a movie to explain how their reward system worked in the FAQ.

        • Anonymous

          No Anon. You see, you misunderstood what I said. You’re making assumptions about Mafiozo. Which is why I said what I did. As in you can’t assume he’s a pirate and all that. That is why I called you a jackass, for making assumptions about him. You come off as petty when you just try and turn around what I said and use it against me, the jackass thing.

          I wasn’t discussing hotfile or warez. Or links to anything. And just because some people use hotfile to upload copyrighted material does not mean that it is ONLY used for that. There are legitimate uses. You can say some it’s users use it for that. Some do. But not all. So you can’t generalize the way you do and make assumptions like you have been. (EX: One Anon guy on here acts like a d*ck by making assumptions about people. Does that mean anyone who is Anon or Anonymous is a d*ck like that, as far as assuming things about people online? No.)

          And also, hotfile removes copyrighted material. You can check on various forums with links to hotfile and easily spot the “removed for copyright infringement” or whatever it says.

      • Pilgrimman

        You really are a special kind of stupid. People will not pay for things they can get for free. Essentially you claim that I should go to jail for using OpenOffice.org because I am depriving Microsoft developers of a sale of Microsoft Office. If there is a free alternative of comparable quality, I’m going to use it. Technology has reached a point where it is easy for people to share information freely. The burden is on the entertainment industry to make something that I want to BUY. At this point, they have failed to do so. Even if I did want to buy something, they would have to charge a lot less before I would consider it. The prices are ridiculous. Furthermore, (at least in the case of music) the artists rarely see a good portion of the sales made. The record companies make the majority of the money, not the artists (you know, the people who actually matter)? It is becoming increasingly viable for artists of all types to make a living selling their wares without the influence of the RIAA/MPAA/etc. Every time I download something, I know I am not lining the pockets of the entertainment industry, and it feels great.

        The MPAA is committing a huge moral crime by essentially destroying the freedom of the internet in order to pursue their (the executives, not the artists) greed. The industry needs to adapt, because they will never win this war, and are quickly being left in the dust. Kindly leave with your industry BS, because you are clearly paid by the industry, and you are wasting their money since you will never change our minds.

        • Anon

          “People will not pay for things they can get for free. Essentially you claim that I should go to jail for using OpenOffice.org because I am depriving Microsoft developers of a sale of Microsoft Office.”

          I myself use Open Office. Nobody is denying you your right to download open source software because the author of the software has given everyone the explicit permission to distribute his creation in its original form. However Microsoft doesn’t grant you the permission to make copies of Office and distribute. In both cases, in case you haven’t noticed, what you can and cannot do with a software is decided by the creator of the software and rightly so. This is what Copyright Law is trying to protect…the rights of the content owners and creators.

          “Technology has reached a point where it is easy for people to share information freely. The burden is on the entertainment industry to make something that I want to BUY.”

          They ARE making something worthy or buying. Commercial products are still getting sold because their open source counterparts aren’t as good. Its upto you to decide whether you want to buy or not. Nobody ever forced you to buy. Feel free to seek out an open source alternative if you can.

          “The prices are ridiculous.”

          The prices are getting ridiculous because piracy is increasing and for that reason the legitimate buyers like us are forced to burden the extra cost.

          Its because of you low lives that the focus of game developers have shifted to Multiplayer gaming instead of Single Player campaigns in PC games. More and more companies are also releasing only Xbox 360 and PS3 exclusive titles of games and they have made it clear to the press that piracy is the reason for that. You still think piracy has no effect?

        • I am a sausage not a hotdog

          Very well said.

        • Friend of the People

          Good answer anon.

          I would disagree with you about piracy raising costs. It’s tempting to make that argument, but ultimately, we can’t attribute that to piracy. The more obvious answer is higher development costs for things like special effects in movies or graphics in games. Price is still no reason to pirate though. The increased focus on multiplayer and server requirements in video games sucks though. Decreases the overall quality.

          And to Pilgrimman; the artists have to sign off on the contracts that the record industries give them. Also, becoming a really famous artist, at least to the point where you can sell enough tickets on a tour to make it worth your while, requires an investment of capital for marketing and start-up expenses. That’s what the record company provides. If the artists don’t want to sign, they don’t have to. It’s interesting that they keep choosing to when they aren’t required to. Maybe they see it as a good option?

        • Anon

          @ Friend of the People, thanks for correcting me on that one. Yes, the development cost is indeed a huge factor, I missed that.

          “And to Pilgrimman; the artists have to sign off on the contracts that the record industries give them. Also, becoming a really famous artist, at least to the point where you can sell enough tickets on a tour to make it worth your while, requires an investment of capital for marketing and start-up expenses. That’s what the record company provides. If the artists don’t want to sign, they don’t have to. It’s interesting that they keep choosing to when they aren’t required to. Maybe they see it as a good option?”

          This is the thing that most people don’t understand or are in denial. They think the artists can arrange for Around the World Grand Tours all on their own and take all the profit for themselves and thereby eliminating the middle man, i.e. the Labels. But where do you think expenses will come from? Its the labels that provide a platform for the artists to make themselves famous. They make the investments for their tours which makes it all possible in the end.

          Take the labels out of the equation and you would be left with artists whose only means of distribution of music are torrents. Distribution via torrents doesn’t put food on the table but if his music is good, his popularity will increase. But then he simply won’t have enough money to arrange for concerts to showcase his talent and he would remain a poor bugger.

      • Ven

        That is a sizable assumption that people are guilty of IP theft AND Hotfile is already guilty of facilitation.

        The Constitution clearly defends you from courts assuming guilt. Seeing as how this is not a patent dispute or anti-trust suit between two tech companies, I don’t see the court forcing the release.

        • FIBER0PTIC

          So true.. just like running a Escort Service and a Swinger Club in Las Vegas… You can’t say guilty just because it makes a great complementing business.

          Live Web Cam and Adult Video Production, Nude Entertainment and Web Cam, Private rooms and Web Cam.

          Just because the owner has access too or knowledge of the Warez scene should only help him monitor everything. When dealing with millions of files, coming in from multiple locations what more can be done in verification that every file uploaded is legal? lets not forget privacy for the user, I would hope every picture uploaded is not viewed by everyone working at said company. If a request is made, then Hotfile acts on it.

          I would look at the business model of Hotfile and say “Yes, its a perfect tool for transfer of illegal files”, however its a perfect tool for “legal” reasons as stated above. The issue is “What if a file is found” now what… What details goto the public, ie: IP, Username, Filename, Number of D/Ls, U/L time, IP of D/Loader, etc etc.

          Like the WIFI article a week ago, how do we know who is getting the file but how do we know the user D/Ling the file wants that content? How would user know its copyright without first looking at the file?

          I know most will reply on the moral side, or say look at referring url and ‘assume’ thats what the user wanted. I don’t think you can label every D/L the same level of guilt speaking from the user and the owner side.

          Law was created in the hopes of business doing the right thing, possible exploits can occur and business tries to close the holes keeping peoples rights protected. I see Hotfile doing the right thing.

          If some business starts and gets Grandfathered in via location, or special permit that can not be duplicated in the future.

          ..follow up to this post soon/time sensitive event/medical..

      • Plop

        “They aren’t making profits off other’s work without offering them some sort of deal or compensation are they?”

        The people they represent are for sure. Or perhaps you’ve not been around here long enough to read the stories about the artists suing the labels for using music on compilations without paying the due royalties. Instead, they were simply added to a list ‘pending’ payment, and that list was never actioned:

        http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/12/artists-lawsuit-major-record-labels-are-the-real-pirates.ars

        • Plop

          (actually, that would be the RIAA, but the premise is the same for the MPAA)

      • Canz

        Your a fool. I worked in the industry for years before having kids. The MPAA does break laws. These guys are racketeers in the first degree and have been for decades!
        Only one who either doesn’t know, or doesn’t want to admit it would say they haven’t broken laws. The entire industry is setup to be racketeering. There is no denying it, Go look at the business model. If I did the exact same things the music industry does, I would be on charges of racketeering and I would be guilty.

        • Ven

          This is somewhat true. Basically, managers, producers, lawyers, and labels are all looking to shave profit out of anywhere they can.

          It is only the star struck artists who are too stupid to fight against it.

    • Ven

      Industry statistics are not hard to find. You can get the number of employees, salaries, and they industry won’t make bones about the fact that settlement money isn’t supposed to go back to artists.

      Like any good company, they know how to construct statistics that support the points they try to make in courts or Congress or the press.

      “and anyway, i expect at least 60% of the employees commit crimes on a day to day basis, complete and utter disregard for the law, and their schemes for making money =.=” wow on a whole new level, even the scammers are picking up new tricks.. ”

      Unsubstantiated opinion.

  • I am a sausage not a hotdog

    This is ridiculous what authority do they have just because it’s file hosting these stupid 80 year old scumbags thinks everyone wants to download upload their shit.
    Lets all start suing the mpaa for making remakes and crappy movies.Then charging way too much money to watch it ,with stale popcorn and a drink charging 20 bucks that taste like the dispenser never gets clean.
    But we have to think big!!! I’m serious like 20 million bucks!! Because i lost my wages and I’m going broke because of their shitty movies horrible rewritten scripts and lets not forget whomever the original scriptwriter that spent hours ,days ,months ,years whose script amounted to shit because HOLLYWOOD REWRITES ORIGINAL SCRIPTS! Showing the same platform of the same regurgitated shit in every movie put out since the early 80′s.I’m so off topic lol! Sorry just ranting anyways hotfiles fight fight fight and fight some more. ;)

    • Anon

      Excuse me but since when did the industry start forcing anyone to see their “crappy remakes” and “crappy movies”. Its entirely your decision to see what they make. Don’t like it? Don’t see it and you have saved your money. Simple. That goes for any product put out by any company on the planet.

      Since people are continuing to download whatever they make and they continue to flock to the theaters, I would say the industry is doing something right obviously. I see so much hypocrisy in your statements. You think Hollywood movies are so shitty but you would still waste your time downloading them and seeing them eh?

      • I am a sausage not a hotdog

        When going to a movie i want to see something different not the same shit the last 5 movies put on the screen with 20 different actor.I am both in the industry a independent filmmaker musician and screenwriter i even had acting classes by a very reputable acting coach i know the fees i know how sag works i know how distribution works i know it all and i also know that the industry rewrites/remakes films especially the major film studios.
        So call me a hypocrite all you want. Thanks…..
        I also forgot to mention i have family that are actors as of matter of fact a very well known actor.
        The power grab of distribution totally destructs what others might believe in innovation.I used to be all about copyright laws till i realized how it’s been used to hurt instead of protect.It’s being abused by the same criminals that sue people.

        • Anon

          You think Hollywood movies are shitty. It’s entirely your personal opinion. Don’t try to put it across as fact. You and your family might have taken acting classes but still you don’t speak for the entire masses. So whatever you think of Hollywood movies remain your opinion.

          If your opinion reflected that of the masses, then nobody would be wasting their time downloading these movies. Since piracy hasn’t declined, its a very good indication that Hollywood isn’t doing too badly. Its not like indie producers are doing much better. I would take the latest Hollywood blockbusters any day over the low budget indie crap with often poor acting.

      • Hg

        Time was, every movie and every piece of music that was released, had merit. Nowadays, there is so much out there to choose from that it is only prudent to try before you buy (especially in this current financial climate which, by the way, big business got us into). This is especially true of CAMS, the industry’s bugbear. If the film is shit, people wont go to the cinema to watch it, If its good, it will be successful. At this, point there are many satisfied customers because they either didnt waste their cash on something they didnt like, or spent prudently and got good value for money. Now if the MPAA want money for their product from people who didnt enjoy it and didnt get value from it, well who’s in the wrong now?

        The same applies to music. Once upon a time if you bought an album of your favourite artist, you could assume that the artist had put his body and soul into that album, and upon first listening, the hairs on the back of your neck would stand up. Nowadays most albums consist of a couple of decent tracks packed with 8 or 10 fillers. A quick download sorts the wheat from the chaff, and in many cases, it’s off to the store we go.

        It is accepted wisdom that people who download illegally are in the highest consumer bracket for media. In other words, pirates spend more than non pirates on legal media.

        • Friend of the People

          “Time was, every movie and every piece of music that was released, had merit”

          Bull.

          That was never true. The fact is, we’ve just forgotten all the bad stuff. It’s a well known psychological principle relating to nostalgia; we always forget the crappy stuff. Take the year 1969. We have a bunch of wonder musicians who will be remembered (the Beatles, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Led Zepplin, etc…), but the number one song was Sugar Sugar by the Archies. Go look it up. You won’t be impressed. The same applies to movies, and especially to video games.

          There are always ways to know is something is good or not. Just look around for 10 minutes on the internet, listen to demos and watch trailers, and you will be able to figure it out. Lawbreaking is NOT a necessity.

          That fact about pirates is true, but we need to be careful about how we interpret it. If you read the studies, you will know that the way it works is that people who are interested in music are more likely to pirate. We have no data suggesting that becoming a pirate makes someone more likely to buy something, only that people who are already likely to buy something are likely to become pirates. That needs to be a MAJOR consideration if you’re proposing to abolish copyright.

        • Anonymous

          @ Friend of the People

          “If you read the studies, you will know that the way it works is that people who are interested in music are more likely to pirate. We have no data suggesting that becoming a pirate makes someone more likely to buy something, only that people who are already likely to buy something are likely to become pirates.”

          Well I can’t link to the articles because I’m lazy and don’t feel like searching for them. But TF has posted articles about the studies (independently conducted) that show pirates buy more than regular consumers. That’s not exactly debunking what you said, because you said becoming a pirate doesn’t mean someone will be more likely to buy something. But it does show that pirates do buy more. I mean they’re both similar things (what you said and what the articles show) but there is a difference. You’re saying “becoming a pirate” and the studies say “those who pirate”. Semantics? Yes. But it does make a difference in the argument. Not that we’re arguing, but you get what I mean.

          Also, “Sugar Sugar” is a good song. Maybe not good. But I dig it. And I’m a huge fan of the bands you did list. And a metalhead.

        • Friend of the People

          First of all, I am deeply, DEEPLY disappointed in you. Liking sugar sugar? Harrumph. Oh well. It’s fine. I actually like stuff that I consider much worse than that :). I think my point still stands that the other bands I named were much better. I challenge anyone to dispute that.

          What you say is true. I’m not saying that there’s no relationship; we know pirates buy more, it’s been conclusively proven. I just want to make sure we aren’t confusing correlation with causality before we make any decisions about the possible abolishment of copyright.

        • Anonymous

          @ FotP

          I will not dispute that those bands are better, because they are. And yeah, I’m disappointed in myself too. Lol. I have insanely eclectic taste in music. And no confusion on what you said. And tsk tsk. Much worse than that (Sugar Sugar)? My interest has been piqued. However, I won’t ask you to say what that could be (I’ll spare you revealing whatever possible embarrassment that could be).

          Just felt a need to mention what I did just to make it clear as well. Because then some people might jump in and start running with the bit with you said, while ignoring completely what I said (or being completely ignorant of it, as in not knowing about it at all). Or they might start arguing what I said in reply to what you said, and doing so in not necessarily a civil manner. (I’m a show respect, get respect guy. You act like a do*che I’ll treat you like one. Hence some of my replies at times to others are laced with profanity and insults. But if you’re respectful and reasonable, we can have a nice reasonable back and forth type discussion.)

        • Friend of the People

          Well, you asked. I liked K$sha for awhile. I refuse to forgive myself for that. I also like Aqua (Barbie Girl and Candy Man). I can’t help myself.

      • I am a sausage not a hotdog

        Stereotypical of you to say go on lap dancing to the mpaa!!
        My cousins been in the business since the early 60′s a nice big resume visible on imdb.com database,He’s allot older and even teaches acting.I am highly inspired by his work.Lets just say he is known anyone in Hollywood knows him.Thank for contradicting my family aswell as myself and placing judgment on someone you don’t even know.
        Sincerely go fuck yourself.

        Now as far as what you said about Indie producers perhaps if you weren’t such a stooge and actually watched a few Indie films.You might learn a little something.You know with actual actors acting not using computer graphics ,not that I’m saying there is a problem with that.
        But guess your into that.The independent producers are constantly bombarded by the major producers/distributors that it makes it difficult to say what can be produced.It’s funny how Hollywood remakes films from places like japan Australia Brazil Canada etc etc etc.Yes so original Hollywood blockbusters they can’t write anymore.Because Hollywood is too concerned with suing people.Hollywood lost it’s touch along time ago.

        • Anon

          “My cousins been in the business since the early 60′s a nice big resume visible on imdb.com database,He’s allot older and even teaches acting.I am highly inspired by his work.Lets just say he is known anyone in Hollywood knows him.”

          Your cousin might be the most popular actor in the world for all I care but his mere opinion all of a sudden doesn’t become a fact, it remains an opinion. You just can’t see that can you? Who cares what you or your family of actors think of Hollywood movies? There are just as many actors who think Hollywood is still doing well. Have you interviewed every single actor of Hollywood to find out what they think? Then shut up.

          “You know with actual actors acting not using computer graphics ,not that I’m saying there is a problem with that.”

          Now you are saying all mainstream Hollywood movies have no real acting and only uses computers graphics to sell the movie. You must be the type who only seems to notice the action movies that Hollywood makes while completely ignoring the Dramas, Biographies and other genre of movies they make. Congrats.

          “It’s funny how Hollywood remakes films from places like japan Australia Brazil Canada etc etc etc.Yes so original Hollywood blockbusters they can’t write anymore.Because Hollywood is too concerned with suing people.Hollywood lost it’s touch along time ago.”

          Yes Hollywood is making a lot of remakes but they are also making many quality movies which are not remakes. If you don’t like remakes, avoid them. Simple.

      • I am a sausage not a hotdog

        You’re starting to get personal you have your opinion i have mine simply because you think your opinion matters it doesn’t.See i can copy and paste just like you.

        Who cares what you or your family of actors think of Hollywood movies?
        Please tell me where i said my family and i said this. Bitch!!!Again stop being such a stooge,lol.

        Now you are saying all mainstream Hollywood movies have no real acting and only uses computers graphics to sell the movie. You must be the type who only seems to notice the action movies that Hollywood makes while completely ignoring the Dramas, Biographies and other genre of movies they make. Congrats.
        See if you didn’t lick the ass of a Hollywood executive ,thinking you’d receive some sort of merit.Sitting beside them like a dog ,waiting to get your dog bisket.
        i might think that was an intelligent response.But since you lack the knowledge of film-making nor the skills to pick up a piece of paper write a song ,write a film or even pick up a camera. i feel i would only waste my time responding to you.

        Yes Hollywood is making a lot of remakes but they are also making many quality movies which are not remakes. If you don’t like remakes, avoid them. Simple.

        Again you silly goose!!! Let’s go back to square one. i like good movies!! not shit! you’re telling me i should like watching shit! When said shit like Do shit and shit starts getting stinky said shit smells like shit taste like shit and looks like shit and creates a epidemic of shit a huge shit storm!

        Am i supposed to support that? Then you started rambling about independent artist making bad movies!! Hmm, i would advise you to ramble with someone who has lower self-esteem since you have such a high inferiority complex.

        • Guest123

          “See if you didn’t lick the ass of a Hollywood executive ,thinking you’d receive some sort of merit.Sitting beside them like a dog ,waiting to get your dog bisket.
          i might think that was an intelligent response.But since you lack the knowledge of film-making nor the skills to pick up a piece of paper write a song ,write a film or even pick up a camera. i feel i would only waste my time responding to you.”

          If that isn’t the biggest cop-out argument I’ve ever seen….

          “you’re telling me i should like watching shit!”

          No, we’re saying that YOU DON’T NEED TO WATCH IT!!!! You don’t NEED to go see it, and you don’t need to pirate it. If you like indie movies, go watch those. You have no need to see the Hollywood movies. You can’t complain about them taking your money for bad movies if you’re the idiot who keeps insisting on seeing the crappy movies.

          Why do you need to see these movies? Why do you need to pirate them if you’re going to hate them?

        • I am a sausage not a hotdog

          @ Guest123
          Please define a pirate!
          See the copyright trolls are coming from every angle and can’t seem to grasp what I’m saying!
          I never said all that Hollywood is making shitty movies i am saying that most of the movies coming out are shit.
          If i go to the movies and watch a film and like i said to “friend of the people” all the hype about said film was “so great’ and then turned out to be a complete waist of my time. Then Hollywood needs to get better writers since the discredit the actual writer that created the screenplay in the first place.Thank you very much.

        • Guest123

          A pirate is someone who downloads, streams or otherwise uses copyrighted content illegally. I think that’s a fair operational definition.

          Ah, I see. So your problem is with the hype making it hard to tell what’s good or not. Then as far as I’m concerned, you need to learn how to look past the hype and find a reviewer whose opinion you can trust. Just don’t listen to the hype. Put in some research and find someone whose opinion actually sounds correct. There’s always going to be hype. If you do some legwork, you won’t get caught watching something you don’t like.

          You don’t need piracy to find out what’s good or not. There are plenty of legal ways. Find one.

        • I am a sausage not a hotdog

          @GUEST123
          Their is a double standard and you call me a pirate hypocrite!! Calling someone a pirate not knowing what i do or how i do it. I love these responses keep them piling up while i grab some cookies.

        • Guest123

          Fair enough. Given your past comments, I just assumed you were into filesharing, but I admit that I should have asked. My point does remain valid though. You’re not a pirate, but your reasons are often used to justify piracy. There are tons of people, even on this site, who use “wanting to check quality” as a justification for piracy. Take my remark as a response to that viewpoint, and it will make sense.

        • Anon

          “Please tell me where i said my family and i said this. Bitch!!!Again stop being such a stooge,lol. ”

          If you didn’t want to bring your family into this argument, you should have avoided mentioning that your family tree was full of actors just like your “famous” cousin and that they know a lot about Hollywood and how shitty it has become.

          “See if you didn’t lick the ass of a Hollywood executive ,thinking you’d receive some sort of merit.Sitting beside them like a dog ,waiting to get your dog bisket.
          i might think that was an intelligent response.But since you lack the knowledge of film-making nor the skills to pick up a piece of paper write a song ,write a film or even pick up a camera. i feel i would only waste my time responding to you.”

          As already said, biggest cop-out ever. My point still stands because you completely steered clear of answering it and instead tried a diversion with some cheap insults with doesn’t affect me one bit.

          “Again you silly goose!!! Let’s go back to square one. i like good movies!! not shit! you’re telling me i should like watching shit! When said shit like Do shit and shit starts getting stinky said shit smells like shit taste like shit and looks like shit and creates a epidemic of shit a huge shit storm! ”

          Comprehension is clearly not your strong suit I see. What I said is you DON’T have to waste money on movie that you think are shit! Don’t download them and you will have saved your time on shit movies. If you think remakes are shit, AVOID them. You don’t know how to read or what? Pick the ones which are good and watch them.

          “Am i supposed to support that? Then you started rambling about independent artist making bad movies!! Hmm, i would advise you to ramble with someone who has lower self-esteem since you have such a high inferiority complex.”

          Its my opinion that independent artists make poor movies. Nothing to do with complexities at all. I ain’t forcing my opinions on anyone. If you like indie movies, go watch them. I like Hollywood movies and I will stick to them. If you can trash Hollywood movies, I have equal rights to trash indie movies. Fair enough right?

      • I am a sausage not a hotdog

        Wow you are persistent not only persistent but a whiny crying baby that needs his bottle if he doesn’t get feed properly.My point whether my family is in the business or not has nothing to do with what i stand for and what i believe.I can make my point because i was given that god given don’t be such a dictator.You want to argue saying file sharing is wrong p2p tormenting is wrong continue believing that were others see differently.

        “Comprehension is clearly not your strong suit I see. What I said is you DON’T have to waste money on movie that you think are shit! Don’t download them and you will have saved your time on shit movies. If you think remakes are shit, AVOID them. You don’t know how to read or what? Pick the ones which are good and watch them.”

        Oh really I’m the one with the comprehension problem? No, I think it’s you.
        I’ll repeat it for you nice and clearly like I have a few commenter’s. Since you don’t read and only make retorts of babbling shit.

        “I never said all that Hollywood is making shitty movies I am saying that most of the movies coming out are shit.
        If i go to the movies and watch a film.All the hype about said film was “so great’ and then turned out to be a complete waist of my time. Then Hollywood needs to get better writers since they discredit the actual writer that created the screenplay in the first place.”

        Its my opinion that independent artists make poor movies. Nothing to do with complexities at all. I ain’t forcing my opinions on anyone. If you like indie movies, go watch them. I like Hollywood movies and I will stick to them. If you can trash Hollywood movies, I have equal rights to trash indie movies. Fair enough right?

        You aren’t that much of a fan of movies if you only go to blockbuster movies without watching indie flicks.There are many indie flicks out there that are so good many writers that don’t have to rely on a big name to fancy up their movie because it says paramount or 20th century fox or warner or Disney etc etc etc.
        For starters watch a movie called The tunnel movie which you could legitimately and legally download off the Internet “FOR FREE”. That makes any recent Hollywood scary movie look elementary on a low budget with excellent writers etc. We can be fair if you stop with the “I’m always right” ego.

        • I am a sausage not a hotdog

          @Guest123
          Fair enough. Given your past comments, I just assumed you were into filesharing, but I admit that I should have asked. My point does remain valid though. You’re not a pirate, but your reasons are often used to justify piracy. There are tons of people, even on this site, who use “wanting to check quality” as a justification for piracy. Take my remark as a response to that viewpoint, and it will make sense. “

          I will humbly apologize for calling you a hypocrite.Again double standards my friend.

          @Friend of the people
          I’m not saying companies should be allowed to get away with anything. I’m trying to say that we judge each company as an individual entity, not as a homogeneous mess. We have to judge each corporation by its own merits, instead of just using a group label for all of them.

          This will be my last response. Real world stuff needs doing. We’ll probably end up talking later. Have fun.

          A label is only seen by the public eye for what each individual will see in return.Do harm to others and other will do harm to you.”karma”!!

        • Friend of the People

          @sausage

          Yeah, karma…. I don’t like to see people trying to take this stuff into their own hands. Vigilantism isn’t exactly conducive to a civil and healthy society. I mean, bringing stuff to the attention of watchdog groups, the media, or even the police; that seems reasonable. Deciding to take the punishment of companies onto yourself, taking the duty of the law onto yourself, is where it becomes unreasonable. I know people will do it, but I don’t think it’s good. Particularly because “the people” don’t punish based on proof, they punish based on rhetoric and opinions.

    • Friend of the People

      If they’re so crappy, why watch them at all? Why pirate it?

      How did you lose your money? Did you really think something was going to be really good, spend your money on it, and then find out it sucked? I would recommend putting some research into this stuff before purchase. A little work goes a long way. I haven’t been screwed on more than $4 for anything in at least 2 years (except Dead Rising 1. Did not see that stinker coming. My fault though for buying it on an impulse.)

      • I am a sausage not a hotdog

        And so we meet again with the high cost of movies people want something different.With all the hype given out saying this is the movie of the year century yada yada!
        Piracy helps no matter how hard you want to deny it creates a real buzz a real audience and real customers wanting to pay a few bucks.The industry does it then goes back suing people.
        Do you not see the crime being committed by the industry?If lets say going fishing if you threw the hook in the water and instead the hook caught onto your pants that’s baiting you. Entrapment.

        • Friend of the People

          Ok, from what I can understand, you’re claiming that the industry uses piracy for publicity and then sues the pirates, which you claim is entrapment. That’s not entrapment. Entrapment requires that you put the idea for the crime in someone’s head and then arrest them for it. A good example to illustrate this is when cops set up a prostitution sting operation where a cop poses as a prostitute. Many people claim that this is entrapment because the cop gave them the opportunity to commit a crime. In reality this would only be entrapment if the cop solicited the person and CONVINCED them to use the prostitute. This applies to this situation as well. Even if the companies posted their own content, which I seriously doubt they do, that’s not entrapment unless they convince people to steal it. In short, they can provide the opportunity, but not the motive.

          First; the majority of the publicity for major movies comes from marketing, not pirates. Second; piracy does create publicity, but pirates can’t use that as a justification. If someone decides to release their product for piracy hoping for more publicity, that’s fine. You can’t make that choice for them. You can’t force people to be part of the pirate marketing model.

          You may not like the high prices (I personally get pissed at the 3D prices), but seeing as you don’t have any pressing need to see their movies, I’m not really seeing a good justification here.

        • I am a sausage not a hotdog

          @friend of the people

          Perhaps you might want to go down about 4 or 6 posts and see what alki davids suing.ON multiple accounts the industry done this to fish people and countless lawsuits have speared people.

          http://torrentfreak.com/warner-music-director-caught-in-piracy-110620/

          Also watch this video!
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ikm2aTRSlA

          And from the voice of alki david in the reason why he is suing.
          http://www.filmon.com/cbsyousuck/

          Do some research!!

        • Friend of the People

          I don’t think I made this clear enough; I’m not saying it’s not ethically wrong if they put it up themselves, I’m saying it’s not entrapment. Entrapment has an established definition, and (most of the time) this doesn’t meet the standard. It can still be ethically wrong without being entrapment.

          If they actually encourage people to it, then could be entrapment. We should prosecute the companies who do that, but we shouldn’t judge all companies by the ones who disobey the law. We assume they are innocent until proven guilty.

          Most of your links refer to CNET. That sounds like a case where entrapment is a legitimate possibility. They should be prosecuted for that. I think our difference is that I won’t just assume that other companies are doing the same without proof. I doubt that most or many companies post their own content with the hopes of catching pirates. Until I see evidence that they do, I’m probably going to remain skeptical.

        • Lfg

          Sausage, I think I’m missing something. How does wrongdoing by a company justify any you do? Since when are you supposed to punish them for their actions?

        • I am a sausage not a hotdog

          @Lfg
          “Sausage, I think I’m missing something. How does wrongdoing by a company justify any you do? Since when are you supposed to punish them for their actions?”
          Oh lordy please tell me where or when i said this,lol.What wrong doing am i doing because i support technology that the industry feels so threatened by? By doing illegal bribing set by a group of bullies aka government aka lawyers aka the system?By companies hiding evidence or creating mass hysteria. Torrenting file sharing is not illegal. I support it.

          I also support people who support me and my right to do what i want to do when it comes to sharing my music.Because i know i can do it and set up stuff in a ways that I’ll get a return.

          The industry has yet to learn from this.It’s hysteria of every media that comes out vcr’s cd’s dvd’s mp3 players even back when cable was being created.
          Why hide media and charge people obnoxious amounts of money your consumers your customers your fans!! And then call them criminals? Because

          it’s greed!!People hate greed.

          I’ve said this many times before “it’s not the people killing the industry it’s the industry killing itself.” When the economy is to blame the industry can only cry their way through a courtroom. When independent artist don’t need a record label and the recording industry feels threatened by it. So please re-evaluate your question!

          Next…..

        • I am a sausage not a hotdog

          @Lfg
          “Sausage, I think I’m missing something. How does wrongdoing by a company justify any you do? Since when are you supposed to punish them for their actions?”
          Oh lordy please tell me where or when i said this,lol.What wrong doing am i doing because i support technology that the industry feels so threatened by? By doing illegal bribing set by a group of bullies aka government aka lawyers aka the system?By companies hiding evidence or creating mass hysteria. Torrenting file sharing is not illegal. I support it.

          I also support people who support me and my right to do what i want to do when it comes to sharing my music.Because i know i can do it and set up stuff in a ways that I’ll get a return.

          The industry has yet to learn from this.It’s hysteria of every media that comes out vcr’s cd’s dvd’s mp3 players even back when cable was being created.
          Why hide media and charge people obnoxious amounts of money your consumers your customers your fans!! And then call them criminals? Because

          it’s greed!!People hate greed.

          I’ve said this many times before “it’s not the people killing the industry it’s the industry killing itself.” When the economy is to blame the industry can only cry their way through a courtroom. When independent artist don’t need a record label and the recording industry feels threatened by it. So please re-evaluate your question!

          Next…..

        • I am a sausage not a hotdog

          @friend of the people
          I don’t have to claim anything when it’s happening. You know i like you one moment you say something that you disagree on then you change your mind and start saying “well i think maybe.” Stop being so skeptic.Their is no wrong or right companies shouldn’t think they can get away with bloody murder. Again a double standard.

        • Friend of the People

          I’m not saying companies should be allowed to get away with anything. I’m trying to say that we judge each company as an individual entity, not as a homogeneous mess. We have to judge each corporation by its own merits, instead of just using a group label for all of them.

          This will be my last response. Real world stuff needs doing. We’ll probably end up talking later. Have fun.

    • Ven

      You know why I have never bought into the idea that piracy is rampant because current music and movies that the industry makes all suck? Because you never see good stuff on most-downloaded lists.

      When was the last time William Powell or Danny Kaye had a movie make a top torrent list? Gone with the Wind? How about the brilliant Angela Lansbury in the theatrical version of Sweeny Todd, does it ever get ripped more than Johnny Depp’s?

      The answer of course is no, because good is not the same as popular. People just can’t seem to wash their hands of an industry they hate so much they can’t trust reviews, trailers, or waiting 6 months to rent.

      If you want them to go away, to change the way they make movies, stop pirating. Forget voting with your wallet, start voting with your time: stop wasting it on their garbage if you think it’s garbage. Piracy tells them people would rather break laws than give up their addiction to entertainment. Don’t give them that.

      • I am a sausage not a hotdog

        Ha good point. though this generation is way different then the past the beginning of new innovation.Sharing has been around since the beginning of time.What should change that now? But i like and respect your point .

        • Ven

          This “Sharing” is different because of how potentially detrimental it is to recouping investment on intellectual property.

          I’m not a big fan of a copyright that lasts a century, and I really think all IP should abide under abandonware laws. However, I do see the ability to potentially earn a huge profit as a great incentive for original creation. I think the economic boom that the United States has seen since the American Revolution is a great example of how providing opportunity allows for great innovation.

          At the same time, I can’t wrap my head around the idea that copyright laws that defend that innovation somehow shouldn’t apply because IP distribution isn’t expensive. If anything, non-commercial distribution of IP without permission should logically be punished more severely than the non-commercial distribution of physical goods, because of the lower overhead that went into distribution.

          And I don’t mean any of this as an attack, I sincerely don’t know where the truth falls on the subject. It’s probably the reason I post here so much, to beat misinformation out of my head.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Robert.P.Ayers Robert Ayers

    What the fuck? The source code is copyrighted! Don’t they see the irony? Can I go to the MPAA and ask for all the films they have ever released on a portable HD? Rofl

  • Jon

    As a former Hotfile downloader (I’ve since moved on to Filesonic), how concerned should I be about this?

    • Anonymous

      If you only downloaded none. The MPAA would be after bigger fish.

      Even in the case of uploads just say someone hacked your wireless router.

    • Trespass

      …depends on how anonymous you were. Funny how the line”did you use protection” can have a new context.

    • JB

      you would be safer not buying direct from any file host, as all payment methods can traced back to you. (accept paysafecard)

      It is most secure to use a leechbox like 2leech. They buy the accounts and act like a proxy to protect you from being logged.

  • Herbert

    they ‘selected Hotfile because of its relative lack of might’. this is about right. they haven’t got the balls to take on anyone or any company that has the financial baking to go ‘all the way’. just like they dont take on any individuals, other than kids, disabled people, the unemployed and grannies, in fact anyone that cant afford a defense, let alone fight back!

    • Ven

      Not quite. They can go after small companies that aren’t able or willing to put up huge fights, but they do it to get wins under their belt. They do it so the judge will make a ruling they can use in future cases.

      Every fight they win makes future fights easier.

    • Ven

      Not quite. They can go after small companies that aren’t able or willing to put up huge fights, but they do it to get wins under their belt. They do it so the judge will make a ruling they can use in future cases.

      Every fight they win makes future fights easier.

  • IDIOCRACY

    Let us sue the state of USA for war crimes and demand all stored data about every US citizen all their financial data, their criminal records, their family bonds and connections and their sexual preferences and race.

    this is exactly the same, maybe even more ligit. :P

    • Anonymous

      That last part is starting to sound like the US demands to track air travel.

      In the EU basic air travel data is tracked for 2 years maximum. For travelers to US then the US wanted to track EU people for 10 years with 5 years online and 5 years offline.

      In this dispute between the US and EU then the EU simply rolled over and gave them 10 years which is far outside the EU’s 6 months to 2 years tracking limits for all required EU services.

      The US will now track your name, age, address, phone numbers, credit card and other payment details, fellow travelers, source and destinations. And should they feel the need race, religion, medical records and more.

      So sure laugh it up. The police state is watching you.

      • Ven

        That kind of tracking doesn’t surprise me. Terrorist cells in the U.S. sit dormant for years (even decades), so the further back information can be recalled, the easier it is to identify leaders and other cells.

        It is an acceptable loss of the right to privacy for most Americans because most people don’t care if the government knows where they vacationed.

        • Anonymous

          “Terrorist cells” sounds like a propaganda term to me. I doubt you have any beyond those minorities you annoy too much one day and they plot some revenge.

          In my view this is all evidence that the real terrorists are winning. Their goal after all is to bring fear and paranoia into a society to change that society for the worst. And out of your fear you will become defensive and change laws as a result.

          So here you are fearful enough about terrorist cells to have everyone who enters your country watched and monitored. And of course it will be abused far far beyond the terrorist subject.

        • Anonymous

          “Terrorist cells” sounds like a propaganda term to me. I doubt you have any beyond those minorities you annoy too much one day and they plot some revenge.

          In my view this is all evidence that the real terrorists are winning. Their goal after all is to bring fear and paranoia into a society to change that society for the worst. And out of your fear you will become defensive and change laws as a result.

          So here you are fearful enough about terrorist cells to have everyone who enters your country watched and monitored. And of course it will be abused far far beyond the terrorist subject.

        • Ven

          And paranoia is exactly what gave us stuff like the Patriot Act. There were plenty of errors and I’m not condoning that mindset. But if you tell Americans that you want to track all foreigners traveling into our country, they will be okay with it. If you tell them you want to track American citizens who travel overseas, they will be okay with it. You know why?

          Because most people consider “terrorist cells” the least paranoid explanation for several thousand Americans and trillions of American dollars that were lost at the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001. And to put those numbers into perspective, it only took 128 American lives on the RMS Lusitania for America to get involved in WWII.

        • Ven

          And paranoia is exactly what gave us stuff like the Patriot Act. There were plenty of errors and I’m not condoning that mindset. But if you tell Americans that you want to track all foreigners traveling into our country, they will be okay with it. If you tell them you want to track American citizens who travel overseas, they will be okay with it. You know why?

          Because most people consider “terrorist cells” the least paranoid explanation for several thousand Americans and trillions of American dollars that were lost at the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001. And to put those numbers into perspective, it only took 128 American lives on the RMS Lusitania for America to get involved in WWII.

  • Trespass

    ….depends on how anonymous you were. Funny how the line”did you use protection” can have a new context.

    • Trespass

      The above was replying to Jon. Forgot to hit the “reply” button….

  • gae

    If I owned hotfile, I would give the requested details, but only in exchange for the data of MPAA’s hidden research files, which will show the real losses from piracy.

    • Trespass

      I agree. I want evidence of all the accusations the MPAA has made. Where are all these lost jobs? Not one person has ever come forward and stated the lost their job due to file-sharing.

      All reports I’ve read are that the entertainment industry is having record breaking box office takes and there seems to be no shortage of movies being made. Only a shortage of ideas as most that come out are crap….

  • http://www.xbomber.co.uk/ Crash

    I don’t see how, (if they want the output of the source-code to be made unavailable), they have legitimate business in obtaining the source-code.

  • Noah C.

    A small revelation occurred to me while reading this article.

    The MPAA wants to know everyone that downloads anything on that site. Think about that. That’s invading personal privacy. This is absolutely ridiculous. Whether or not this is for so-called Copyright Protection, it is completely invading the privacy of the user, even if they are downloading public-domain content. This is wrong in so many ways.

  • Noah C.

    A small revelation occurred to me while reading this article.

    The MPAA wants to know everyone that downloads anything on that site. Think about that. That’s invading personal privacy. This is absolutely ridiculous. Whether or not this is for so-called Copyright Protection, it is completely invading the privacy of the user, even if they are downloading public-domain content. This is wrong in so many ways.

    • Anon

      MPAA will obviously not sue you if your download or upload history on the site shows no copyright infringement. Don’t be a fool. Just because they are asking for user details doesn’t mean they will sue everyone who ever used the site.

      • comintagetcha

        they are not entitled to the data .. FACT
        btw I really would love to stab you ..nonce

        • Anon

          Lol be careful. If you don’t keep that anger if check, you might just kill yourself :)

        • Ven

          Another fact – judges still order releases of data all the time if they feel the rest of the evidence points to a need to do so.

      • Anonymous

        But they have no right to see everyone’s data. If I’m doing nothing wrong then you don’t have the right to seek access to any/all info about me. They want info on everyone, and they’re assuming everyone’s up to no good. That is not necessarily the case. And as such, they’re overstepping their bounds.

        • Ven

          This is a consideration the judge will have.

          However, a right to privacy does not give Hotfile the right to walk out of a hearing. The judge can decide that Hotfile is not taking the necessary steps to combat infringement, without releasing personal data. He could also order a release of some of the data.

        • Ven

          This is a consideration the judge will have.

          However, a right to privacy does not give Hotfile the right to walk out of a hearing. The judge can decide that Hotfile is not taking the necessary steps to combat infringement, without releasing personal data. He could also order a release of some of the data.

        • Anonymous

          Well, I’m not saying Hotfile has the right to walk out of a hearing. Merely that the MPAA is crossing a line in trying to gather everyone’s info. It’s comparable to what Sony did over Geohot’s hack. They wanted Youtube and I believe the company that ran Geohot’s wesbite to turn over ALL the info on anyone/everyone who even looked at the video or the site. Which was/is wrong. Not everyone who viewed the video or went to his site immediately went and hacked a PS3. Some merely were curious as to what all the fuss was about. But Sony was willing to violate people’s privacy over that. And the MPAA is doing the same here.

          I think a reasonable judge (keyword: reasonable), of which there aren’t many, at least not many who are technologically knowledgeable, will make the right decision in regards to what info can be handed over and on whom. Or better said, I hope they’ll make the right decision in regards to this.

          But as far as steps necessary to combat infringement, well Hotfile does remove files. So one can’t say they are ignoring the issue. But it’s unreasonable to assume that they can’t be on top of everything. It’s like saying the local cops can stop drug dealers. But they can’t stop them all. They aren’t all seeing and all knowing. Same goes for Hotfile. They remove files as soon as they are made aware of them. The DMCA takedown notices are effective. It just seems that the MPAA and groups like that are lazy. They don’t want to do the work of sending them. Instead they’d rather force others to do the work and then strong arm them into doing whatever else they want (or else face legal actions in the form of lawsuits).

          The truth is the MPAA/RIAA and others will never be happy til they have total control over anything/everything. And even then that won’t be enough. Piracy could be completely eradicated tomorrow and they’d still b*tch about it. And they’d still make up “facts” and “figures” about supposed losses. The problem is the times have changed and they haven’t changed with them. Then, rather then try and adapt to the changing times, they’re trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Or, better said, they’re trying to make the times/laws fit in with their views and business practices.

        • Anonymous

          Well, I’m not saying Hotfile has the right to walk out of a hearing. Merely that the MPAA is crossing a line in trying to gather everyone’s info. It’s comparable to what Sony did over Geohot’s hack. They wanted Youtube and I believe the company that ran Geohot’s wesbite to turn over ALL the info on anyone/everyone who even looked at the video or the site. Which was/is wrong. Not everyone who viewed the video or went to his site immediately went and hacked a PS3. Some merely were curious as to what all the fuss was about. But Sony was willing to violate people’s privacy over that. And the MPAA is doing the same here.

          I think a reasonable judge (keyword: reasonable), of which there aren’t many, at least not many who are technologically knowledgeable, will make the right decision in regards to what info can be handed over and on whom. Or better said, I hope they’ll make the right decision in regards to this.

          But as far as steps necessary to combat infringement, well Hotfile does remove files. So one can’t say they are ignoring the issue. But it’s unreasonable to assume that they can’t be on top of everything. It’s like saying the local cops can stop drug dealers. But they can’t stop them all. They aren’t all seeing and all knowing. Same goes for Hotfile. They remove files as soon as they are made aware of them. The DMCA takedown notices are effective. It just seems that the MPAA and groups like that are lazy. They don’t want to do the work of sending them. Instead they’d rather force others to do the work and then strong arm them into doing whatever else they want (or else face legal actions in the form of lawsuits).

          The truth is the MPAA/RIAA and others will never be happy til they have total control over anything/everything. And even then that won’t be enough. Piracy could be completely eradicated tomorrow and they’d still b*tch about it. And they’d still make up “facts” and “figures” about supposed losses. The problem is the times have changed and they haven’t changed with them. Then, rather then try and adapt to the changing times, they’re trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Or, better said, they’re trying to make the times/laws fit in with their views and business practices.

      • gae

        Care to post for us your complete browsing history from the last 3 years?
        Don’t worry. If you didn’t infringe any copyrights nobody will sue you.

      • Noah C.

        I don’t give a damn if they sue me, because I’m not going to give them anything if they did.

        And that’s not the point. I don’t want someone knowing everything about me… merely because they can know and they have enough money to lobby my personal information to their dirty pockets.

      • AnonKnocker

        The fact still remains that many users are NOT exchanging copyrighted data. The release of an IP address and a subsequent investigation of the owner of that IP address, overtly or subversively is a breach of privacy laws.

        It is one thing to have proof of a contravention and having a court order issued to sue a potential criminal with evidence…it is quite another to demand all the information an organisation has so that they may rake through every member and arbitrarily ‘choose’ who to sue.

        I can see lots and lots of lawsuits against the MPAA…hmm, proceed.

    • JB

      the right to privacy does not give people the right to commit crimes.

      If Hotfile hosted “How to Make a Nuclear Bomb for Dummies”, by your logic no authority should have the right to investigate because someone’s personal privacy out weighs the right to public safety.

      • Noah C.

        In that case, they should get a subpoena or whatever legal writ you need to take down the torrent, not list all the names of every single person who’s ever used the site. This is the legal way of doing things.

        In case you ARE looking to make bomb, you would first need uranium, plutonium, and whatever other extremely advanced things that the government would most likely notice you in other departments, such as the NSA and CIA.

        There is no proper analogy for this argument. It is impossible. I have a right to privacy.

      • Noah C.

        In that case, they should get a subpoena or whatever legal writ you need to take down the torrent, not list all the names of every single person who’s ever used the site. This is the legal way of doing things.

        In case you ARE looking to make bomb, you would first need uranium, plutonium, and whatever other extremely advanced things that the government would most likely notice you in other departments, such as the NSA and CIA.

        There is no proper analogy for this argument. It is impossible. I have a right to privacy.

      • Anonymous

        Well, first off, even if they did host that file. There’s no harm in it. Most of the things required to make a nuclear bomb are beyond the reach of pretty much everyone. They’re regulated and monitored. Secondly, “how to make a nuclear bomb for dummies” is pretty much an oxymoron. Even though the process has become much easier over the years, it still takes someone with the technical know how and skills to do it. So that’s a pretty bad analogy you gave there. (I mean come on. There are step by step, essentially idiot proof, guides to rooting Android phones. Or jailbreaking iOS devices. And people still manage to f*ck those up and post things like “I bricked my device.” It’s like really? Are you that much of an idiot that you can’t even do that? And trust me when I say those things are essentially as idiot proof as can be. Then again, I’m technically inclined and know what I’m doing. But still you get what I mean. So I’m pretty sure a book like that would fly over the heads of most people.)

        And the right to privacy trumps the right to search everyone. They can find the people who actually are infringing and request that Hotfile turn over their information (but I believe they still need a court order to do that). But they cannot say gives us all the info you have on everyone because not everyone is infringing. I mean it’s even in the Constitution. The right from illegal searches and seizures. A cop can’t search me without probable cause. Or without knowing I’ve already committed a crime. The same by default should apply here. You can’t scour everyone’s info on the off chance someone may have done something. No. First you must present proof that someone did something (like perhaps a link to a copyrighted file), then submit it to Hotfile, then request the user’s information. You can’t just say “some people upload copyrighted files, SO GIVE US EVERYONE’S INFO ARGHHHHH”. That sh*t won’t fly. And it’s wrong.

        I take it based on what you said that you’re probably the type of person who would gladly trade your freedoms to feel a little safe. That’s pretty sad.

  • Asshat-MPAA

    Maybe MPAA should Ask Adobe to hand them their source codes.

  • Thi

    the fuck? are people going to get sued for DOWNLOADING HOTFILE FILES ? WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF GREAT NOW WE CANT EVEN USE CYBER LOCKER FILES.

  • Huh?

    My question is: does Hotfile even hang on to the IP addresses? If you downloaded a file six months ago, would Hotfile even have those logs? For uploaders I can see hanging on to that information, but downloaders?

    • theRealName

      They do, pls read their privacy policy.

    • theRealName

      They do, pls read their privacy policy.

  • Fuck MPAA

    Fuck the MPAA, keep downloading.

  • Anonymous

    One thing to keep in mind about the MPAA and other copyright protection organizations is that they are OUT TO DESTROY YOU!!! They want to see HotFile dead and they will do anything they lawfully can to do so. “Murder by litigation” is a valid overview of the situation.

    So why then does HotFile want to cooperate to 95% with people who would dance on their company grave? Do they really expect the MPAA to simply go away and leave them alone once they hand over the data? Or do they expect this information to be used in the next round of litigation? Maybe then the MPAA can find some ammo for their weapons.

    My best advice is to not give them an inch and to make them fight tooth and claw for every scrap of data. The DMCA is supposed to protect websites from such litigation by pointing out that copyright holders have to police their own creation. It is the copyright holder’s job to do the research, data gathering and take-down requests.

    Also I am sure HotFile freely turning over user data would be a violation of data protection and privacy laws. Any such data release has to be done by court order and there is no way in hell they they can break the right to anonymity for lawful uploads. Even getting user and IP data for infringing uploads wont be easy with users fighting back.

    I can also say that all the other file locker services should be helping HotFile fight this case, ideally behind the scenes, when if HotFile folds then guess who is next?

    This case is already harming HotFile when most pirates now avoid their service.

    • Glowerous

      I can also say that all the other file locker services should be helping HotFile fight this case, ideally behind the scenes, when if HotFile folds then guess who is next?

      This case is already harming HotFile when most pirates now avoid their service.

      That’s probably the reason for the MPAA lawsuit….to destabilise and undermine the belief in the anonymity of cyberlockers amongst pirates. When they believe them unsafe they will not use them…Rapidshare was threatened, pirates stopped using it. Hotfile is threatened, pirates will stop using it. Next it will be Megaupload etc, etc.

      It’s not a campaign by the MPAA to simply find targets to sue, it is a terror campaign to put the fear of god into pirates and remove the security they have in the anonymity of cyberlockers.

  • Foff

    Wtf does the source code have to do with the case? We all know rapidshare killed their incentive program as that had the appearance of encouraging file sharing. May be they are looking for evidence of this at hotfile. They also want to know if the db at hotfile was searchable. To my knowledge none of the cyberlockers db’s are searchable. The lawyers suing in this case are over paid techo retards that do not understand how a cyberlocker operates.

    Hotfile is pretty much dead in the pirate scene as almost no one offers hotfile links anymore. Any hotfile links that still work are probably old. Try to do a google search on anything hotfile you will be lucky to find any hotfile links.

    My guess is the real aim of this suit is to try to find a way to spy on uploaders and down loaders to cyberlockers. By studying the source code you might find a way to hack into the data streams to monitor uploads and downloads. Think of the effect this would have if they could monitor cyberlockers the way they do torrents.

    In my opinion the monitoring of torrents or anything else without proper legal authorization amounts to illegal wiretapping. It would be like some private company listening in to phone calls then demanding the id of a caller from the phone company if they detected a crime.

    • Glowerous

      The MPAA don’t monitor torrents, if you are implying packet inspection.
      Only an ISP has the ability to do that.
      An ISP could do that for cyberlockers now, if forced to do so.

      All the MPAA can do at the moment is harvest IP addresses from peers using a torrent client.

      Hopefully, the next generation of torrent clients will not have the need to exchange IP information. It had better be quick too. The options for free data exchange are dwindling.

      The most likely need for the source code is to establish a shadow-copy which receives funnelled information and relays it to a MPAA surveillance team (assuming their lawsuit is successful and an ‘undisclosed’ settlement is reached).

      Keep your wits about you folks. The ‘undisclosed’ settlement doesn’t always mean money.

    • Glowerous

      The MPAA don’t monitor torrents, if you are implying packet inspection.
      Only an ISP has the ability to do that.
      An ISP could do that for cyberlockers now, if forced to do so.

      All the MPAA can do at the moment is harvest IP addresses from peers using a torrent client.

      Hopefully, the next generation of torrent clients will not have the need to exchange IP information. It had better be quick too. The options for free data exchange are dwindling.

      The most likely need for the source code is to establish a shadow-copy which receives funnelled information and relays it to a MPAA surveillance team (assuming their lawsuit is successful and an ‘undisclosed’ settlement is reached).

      Keep your wits about you folks. The ‘undisclosed’ settlement doesn’t always mean money.

    • JD

      They don’t need a court order to monitor public torrents.

      That would be like making it illegal for people to look at each other in a public park because they could be spying.

    • JD

      They don’t need a court order to monitor public torrents.

      That would be like making it illegal for people to look at each other in a public park because they could be spying.

  • Lollin

    Lol non sense people do not worry at least downloader , hotfile can’t hold their log for long time should be max a month or so of log .

  • I’ll Hand You This MPAA

    yo mpaa i can hand you anything you want
    but i cant think of anything else other than this

    ???(?_?)—/´ ¯/)
    —————–/—-/
    —————-/—-/
    ———–/´¯/’–’/´¯`·_
    ———-/’/–/—-/—–/¨¯
    ——–(‘(———- ¯~/’–’)
    ———————-’—–/
    ———-”————_-·´
    ———————–(
    ————-———– ???(?_?)??? ???(?_?)??? ???(?_?)???

  • Pingback: Hotfile Battles MPAA Over Private User Data Disclosure | Links Daily

  • Cyberl

    I own cyberlocker company which is not in USA. Me or my workers don’t live in USA. We did never reply any copyright content removals nor any lawsuit emails. We simply add those to spam filter. We also don’t have DMCA and we do not remove any content which violates copyrights. MPAA/RIAA did sue our company long time ago in court to USA and won because we did not reply nor went USA. So prison time for us and damage fees like 10 million dollars was USA court ruling. We did never paid anything or any of us did go jail. We still keep going and that was like 2 years ago. Reason why nothing hapens is 1. USA laws and court rulings don’t apply in other countries. 2. Company is not in USA. 3. Workers is not in USA. 4. USA can’t seize our domains because those are not net,org,tv,info,biz,com. So domains are out of control of USA and MPAA/RIAA. 5. They don’t know our real identities only fake ones :)

    My advice to other cyberlocker owners is don’t reply MPAA/RIAA. Make offshore company and hide owners identities either using fake ones or other ways. Also do not make company which is in USA and don’t live in USA. So MPAA/RIAA can not do nothing about it nor USA can not do nothing. Good examples are piratebay, demonoid and many others.

    • JB

      guess you never heard of Interpol

      • Anonymous

        Since DMCA is only a US law then those outside the US do not have to follow it but they are still subject to local laws. In my view DMCA should be an international concept which is backed up by the observation that foreign businesses still want DMCA coverage and do sign-up to the US scheme.

        A US Court ruling against a foreign business is nothing more than waste paper. As they are not US based they did not attend and therefore there was a default judgement. No evidence, no wrong-doing, only you lose because you was not there.

        Clearly only a stupid judge would hold such a case when there is no case. Anyone can do that to any person using fake data when as long as they don’t attend then you always win.

        Obviously if they were serious they would have litigated them in their own country.

        Interpol does deal with IP crimes but they do have to be on a criminal level which is unclear in this case. It is interesting to read their constitution does ban them to interfere in political matters. File-sharing is very political reflected by the international pirate party.

  • Guest

    “Now it seems that the MPAA want Hotfile to hand over just about every piece of data the company holds, from the IP addresses of uploaders and downloaders to the company’s source code.”

    UNBELIEVABLE!

    FUCKING UNBELIEVABLE!

  • Brandon-is-a-spass

    Bet the MPAA wants to make a Hotfile clone, get everyone to join their service and start serving notices and arrest warrants for each and everyone.

    • Ivonatinkle

      Yes like megashares.com

  • Anonymous

    i bear no grudge against hotfile. found lots of good stuff there. never paid them a dime. they don’t make me wait long or jump through hoops. if someone wants to give them money, i have no problem.

  • TSO

    Whatever you think about Hotfile, they clearly did what they could this time around to protect their users anonymity. Credit where its due…

  • Guest

    I don’t know why have to keep any log file.

    I don’t keep any log file on my servers since I disabled Loging.

    If anyone a police or a fucking judge of my ass ask me for any log I will told him that I am deeply sorry (not!) but all the log files have been lost following an OS malfunction and that he have to leave with that.

    • Ven

      Unfortunately, this is not a valid defense for a multi-million dollar company based in the U.S. and reporting to the IRS.

  • Guest

    “Good examples are piratebay, demonoid and many others.”

    I know that the pirate bay went a notch further:

    The location of their servers are secret and the servers are redundant.

    I don’t want to discuss the pirate bay network architecture but it is fair to say that you can not shut it down.

  • Guest

    “Good examples are piratebay, demonoid and many others.”

    I know that the pirate bay went a notch further:

    The location of their servers are secret and the servers are redundant.

    I don’t want to discuss the pirate bay network architecture but it is fair to say that you can not shut it down.

    • Anonymous

      I would not say they can’t take the Pirate Bay down had they tried really hard. It would take years had they tried and the result maybe or maybe not.

      What seems most clear is that they should not try. With over 200 million people using this site then that is way too many upset people. Say even 5% of that total went to Washington to protest then that city would be under serious riot and flames soon following.

      No matter the political system in use the one key rule is never to p**s off the population. Democracy talks when people care enough. So better those stuck in the middle tolerate TPB and take action against lesser targets.

      ICE has touched none of the top 10.

      • StevO

        LOL at them worrying about people being upset. Hell theres not a mob of people organized enough to stop anything. Thats just plain funny.

      • StevO

        LOL at them worrying about people being upset. Hell theres not a mob of people organized enough to stop anything. Thats just plain funny.

      • Guest123

        Yeah, but we have nothing to suggest that even %5 would go to protest. Remember, the 200 million number does not represent common users. Even if it did, many of those people simply wouldn’t care enough to go protest over. It would be a bit of a hassle, but other torrent sites are still up, so they aren’t disrupted enough to care. Finally, assuming that there are 200 million users involved enough in TBP to care about it and that %5 care enough to go protest (and if we’re talking about people who would actually go to protest given a chance, that’s an INCREDIBLY generous number), then we still have to deal with the fact that many of those people live outside the united states or have something else that prevents them from going to a protest. Let’s not forget, those are huge assumptions we just made. The vast majority won’t disrupt their life for a protest about anything.

        If the capital got more than 1,000 people, I’d be surprised.

  • http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock

    All these cyberlockers have one thing in common : they claim that they are not trying to be illegal, but they all have a vested interest in retaining the pirated material they are hosting. Hmmm

    • http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock

      The opposition to keyword filtering is stupid. Okay, they don’t like it. We get that. But what have they suggested as an alternative? Supposedly all these file lockers are legal services, but the owners dont seem to be too interested in actually keeping them legal. If you have a video file that is over 500 MBs and has the name “avatar” in it, what could it possibly be besides a dvd rip (or ts) of the movie (and thus copyrighted?) A name might not be enough alone, but it would be easy to create a filtering system that takes several things account to make a very accurate guess of whether a file being uploaded is copyrighted or not. Im betting that 80% of the files that get uploaded to file lockers are copyrighted anyway.

      The proposed DMCA takedowns are borderline useless when it comes to protecting content creators. Plus, it’s basically like saying “if people don’t pay for your work, then it’s your fault because you failed to track down a link in some random blog.” Great, they manged to take one link down when they day is over. Still only 5,000 more to go! DMCA takedown requests are just an excuse to fool people into thinking they have good intentions. The responsibility to keep things legal should like with the hosting service.

      • Anonymous

        Nice to you to pick one of the biggest movies around as your example but what about titles they have never heard of? Are they supposed to research the copyright status of every single file uploaded?

        That answer under DMCA law is “no” when they do not have the time or resources to manage such a check. It is therefore up to the copyright holder to police their own works.

        Then here you are moaning at the work one person has to do for their own creations but say this service should police the creations of everyone. That is not their job but I do think they do an aggressive job on DMCA take-down notices.

        I can also say I can count 28 movies that have used the word “avatar” in the title. A lot of room for confusion.

        • Anon

          If these cyber lockers were serious in enforcing their terms of service and remain legal as they claim to be, they should investigate any DMCA takedown notice and if found to be true, they should not only remove the files but also immediately terminate user (user’s account) who uploaded the files. But for 2 years Hotfile did nothing like that and only when the lawsuit was upon did they start terminating user accounts on a mass scale which ultimately led to pirates abandoning them. This clearly shows there is a vested interest in protecting those who upload copyrighted files for the sake of business.

          As for DMCA takedown notices, they are not just not effective anymore. Pirates have learned to live with DMCA takedowns and have found workarounds which enable to re-upload within hours of it being taken down.

        • Guest123

          “I can also say I can count 28 movies that have used the word “avatar” in the title.”

          Yeah, but how many of those will be uploaded in the week avatar is released? Not too many I’m guessing.

          Jack actually proposed a good idea here (wow, surprising). There is no reason why they can’t just take a list of movies and music being released and set their sites to flag any incoming content that is labeled similarly. It wouldn’t be a perfect solution, but it would help to stem the flow of piracy.

          Seems like a good idea

      • JB

        I agree file lockers are criminal operations.

        They could easily filter keywords that are obviously related to piracy:
        DVDRiP, BluRay, XviD, group names

        Or even better would be to create a 3-strike policy to block users who continually upload forbidden content.

        • http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock

          Yeah, exactly. I mean if it has those kind of terms in the file name, what else could it be? Its a bit of a no brainer.

        • Anonymous

          You and Jack (for agreeing with this idea) are both dumb. You can’t filter those words because that could affect things that aren’t copyrighted. For instance “The Tunnel” is a movie that was freely distributed online. Guess what? The XviD copies have XviD in the filename. You’d be censoring/removing something that was freely distributed by the creators. Also, people upload videos of themselves or homemade movies (not porn) that they shoot. Plenty use the xvid encoder to encode the videos. They too tend to label them “Homemade Movie Xvid”. You can’t punish everyone for the actions of a few and that is exactly what you’d be doing with that filter thing.

          And as Guest pointed out in reply to Jack’s original comment, people aren’t stupid. You censor those keywords and people just change the names just enough to get past that. He even gave an example. So people can still beat that.

          A 3-strike policy would be acceptable. But it would have to be verified a person uploads copyrighted material. I could just as easily upload a video of me sitting in my room and call it “X-Men First Class” (just to be a dick) and that would get me 3 strikes, despite not being copyrighted material. (Sure I shouldn’t use that name, but the video itself is not copyrighted.) It could still lead to problems using something like that.

          And file lockers are not criminal operations. They have legitimate uses. Cars can be used to commit crimes, they don’t outlaw them because a few (or many) people use them to break the law. And they don’t request the information of every car owner in the country just because a few break the law. That’s a violation of privacy. You don’t need to know that I own a ’65 Ford Mustang, which is red, a coupe, that I bought off my dad for $500, etc. etc. etc. All that is information which is the equivalent of what they’re asking for. Which is information that is no one’s business. Just because you or Jack rob a bank in a car doesn’t mean they can get my personal info nor the info of my car (license plate, VIN number, make, model, etc.).

          Think before you speak. You and Jack. Your ideas and “solutions” are laughable at best and seriously potentially more harmful than good at worst.

        • Friend of the People

          @electric_worry

          Here’s an idea; the file-locker companies take a list of copyrighted movies/music/games/whatever else, and in the time around its release, set anything that’s labeled similarly to those products to be flagged for attention. People will change the names, but it makes piracy harder without hurting innocents. It won’t be a 100% effective solution, but it should make it harder for pirates and decrease the amount of infringing content on file sharing sites. There would always be a way to get around it, but it increases the difficulty for pirates without damaging innocents, because it will take human verification to actually pull the content.

          It seems like a good idea. I’m not really seeing a downside, other than the obvious issue that file lockers probably won’t want to pay any more on policing content than they are legally required to.

        • F. Anone

          I see you are new to the internet. Giving content a misleading name is the oldest trick in the book.

      • Guest

        are you stupid? say they put up a filter for every single movie/music/game…. title on the planet (ridiculous idea to begin with).. what do you think happens next? people will start naming the file av4t4r… now they make another few hundred million filters.. then they start just naming them x23rrfheuirnr.mp4 (or better yet make it a .zip).. you really are fucking stupid aren’t you?.. copyright troll..

    • Hairyclems

      Of course they do. If they were to remove all of the warez on their servers they wouldn’t have a business.

    • ArrowDealt

      True. But the Studios have a monopoly of price fixing.
      Where the cyberlockers free the people, the monopoly extorts from them.
      I don’t want a debate on who profits: everyone wants profit at the end of the day.

      The debate should be about the right of privacy.

      If I share and I get caught then I bare the brunt of the punishment.

      I don’t expect to be put under a microscope, have my private pictures of myself and my girlfriend naked or in a compromising position scrutinised by any Tom, Dick or Wanker MPAA loser, having done nothing to breach copyright regs.

      In fact, I can see the opposite: if any ars*hole ever invades MY account and I find out, I would sue the ass off THEM. They have no right viewing MY pictures. Why?
      Because I have taken them and I never released them to be viewed…publically or otherwise (you see, I took them, therefore, I automatically own the copyright).

      BE WARNED MPAA. I will not have my privacy invaded for the sake of your self-centred, money-orientated crusade. Copyright can be a double-edged sword.

      • Ven

        You would have to sue Hotfile for handing over the private information, or the court/judge/state/country for ordering the info released.

        You wouldn’t be able to touch the MPAA.

        • Bureck

          Hotfile makes it clear in its terms and conditions that it will release person info (IP address, premium account info) if it is ordered to release it by another party.

          In short, users have no recourse against Hotfile. My guess is that their initial refusal to release user info is just posturing for a plea deal and they will ultimately relent and let the plaintiffs have at their users in exchange for a lighter sentence.

    • ArrowDealt

      True. But the Studios have a monopoly of price fixing.
      Where the cyberlockers free the people, the monopoly extorts from them.
      I don’t want a debate on who profits: everyone wants profit at the end of the day.

      The debate should be about the right of privacy.

      If I share and I get caught then I bare the brunt of the punishment.

      I don’t expect to be put under a microscope, have my private pictures of myself and my girlfriend naked or in a compromising position scrutinised by any Tom, Dick or Wanker MPAA loser, having done nothing to breach copyright regs.

      In fact, I can see the opposite: if any ars*hole ever invades MY account and I find out, I would sue the ass off THEM. They have no right viewing MY pictures. Why?
      Because I have taken them and I never released them to be viewed…publically or otherwise (you see, I took them, therefore, I automatically own the copyright).

      BE WARNED MPAA. I will not have my privacy invaded for the sake of your self-centred, money-orientated crusade. Copyright can be a double-edged sword.

    • Anonymous

      Cyberlocker services exist and are successful simply meet a market demand. The MPAA has not yet met that demand but with NetFlix they are coming closer.

      You should also remember that services like HotFile follow DMCA regulations and are therefore lawful.

      Copyright has never been about absolute control and enforcement when it is balanced against public rights and freedoms.

    • http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/740147-neurotech-hd.html#post5637502 Jay

      Plenty of people use this service to host very legal content. You wouldn’t sue a hammer company become someone tried to murder someone with that company’s hammer, or declare them a weapons factory, would you?

  • http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/740147-neurotech-hd.html#post5637502 Jay

    I increasingly want to punch the MPAA in the throat. Hearing news like this makes me want to give zero money for any of their movies for the rest of my life.

  • Guest

    on what basis is a company demanding another company’s private information? Maybe, I am missing something here. They can demand (via legal channels) for compensation, if the court determines that is the case. but where do they get off demanding another business’s intellectual property (source code)? these fucks are really asking for it

  • in.cog.nito

    Hotfile, stick a middle finger up at them and just release your sourcecode.

  • Mig

    mpaa uncle sam bitch

  • Joshlondon

    In a conference before the judge handling the case at the time, Hotfile stated that it did not keep logs of download activity until shortly after the suit was filed. It has been doing so since.

    RapidShare states on its site that it categorically does not record IP addresses of downloaders.

    Hotfile’s privacy policy is very explicit: it can log every detail of your activity and use that data as it sees fit. IP addresses, dates, times, operating systems….the whole enchilada.

    It appears that Hotfile just settled the case with Liberty Media Holdings. The case dismissed with prejudice for Hotfile and its owners but without prejudice for the Does who uploaded the files.

    We should know in the next month or two if Hotfile gave up the IP addresses of the uploaders in that case – a new lawsuit would be filed against them. And if Hotfile provided affiliate data for the uploaders showing that they benefited financially from sharing copyrighted material, the legal actions could conceivably – although not certainly by a long shot – shift from civil to criminal proceedings.

    Who knows….

  • Anonymous

    tinyurl.com/24n4nqb

  • Jakejones

    for people who previously only downloaded from Hotfile, how concerned should they be?

  • Xult

    Fuck hotfile and all that sail with them.
    For profit!
    These types can all get fucked!

  • Pingback: Hotfile Battles MPAA Over Private User Data Disclosure | TorrentFreak | NotSoCrazyNews BETA

  • Guest

    “I would not say they can’t take the Pirate Bay down had they tried really hard. It would take years had they tried and the result maybe or maybe not.”

    Ya. You should say that. They did try really really hard already even had few servers confiscated; in vain.

  • Woo

    doesn’t really matter what is said here. the courts will allow the entertainment/copyright industries to get all the info they want and do whatever they want. too much money thrown into the ‘legal’ system and at politicians.

  • Pingback: The Technology Blog: Hotfile Battles MPAA Over Private User Data Disclosure

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  • http://www.facebook.com/jordan.kratz Jordan Kratz

    I boycott Disney, Twentieth Century Fox, Universal, Columbia and Warner, and all MAFIAA Content.How do I do this and still get what I want ?

    1.do not support theater going
    2.do not have cable tv,etc
    3.do not buy any new MAFIAA products
    4.now the stuff you want to see you buy used.buy local first to support local economy and if not locally found buy used online.
    5.and make sure you do not support any artists who sign with the RIAA.

    this is the sure way to get what you want without MAFIAA getting a dime and it is legal………..furthermore you can put your purchase anywheres you need (phone,laptop,etc)

    DO IT NOW !!!

  • Pingback: Hotfile Battles MPAA Over Private User Data Disclosure - elblogdepaola's posterous

  • Anonymous

    tinyurl.com/24n4nqb

  • Guest

    Can you imagine how many uninformed people are going to subscribe to iCloud, and sync their devices through Apple with some Mp3s that they likely acquired “illegally”, only to see the RIAA going into court and winning the case forcing Apple to disclose the content and the user’s identity? The lawsuit $$$ windfall is going to be huge. Until all these cases are settled, you would have to be crazy to use a cloud service unless 100% of your content comes from iTunes with a documented receipt trail.

  • Guest

    Can you imagine how many uninformed people are going to subscribe to iCloud, and sync their devices through Apple with some Mp3s that they likely acquired “illegally”, only to see the RIAA going into court and winning the case forcing Apple to disclose the content and the user’s identity? The lawsuit $$$ windfall is going to be huge. Until all these cases are settled, you would have to be crazy to use a cloud service unless 100% of your content comes from iTunes with a documented receipt trail.

  • Pingback: Hotfile y la MPAA pelean por los datos de los usuarios — Bitelia

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  • Whatever

    A bit late (comment) but Hotfile lost the moment they gave up a single bit of information. It should be a known MAFIAA tactic by now (MAFIAA US copied that from BREIN NL).

    They request a lot, the accused (by the MAFIAA) then tries to negotiate and gives up some things. This repeats a few times until they are almost all the way and then sue anyway easily convincing the judge that the defendant has no problem in giving up ALL rights and freedom.

    The only way to find negotiated position against the MAFIAA for anyone is for the issue as a whole to go to court. It can then easy enough be explained to the judge from previous MAFIAA behaviour that trying to come to an understanding is futile.

  • Anonymous

    tinyurl.com/2df4ccp

  • Anonymous

    tinyurl.com/24n4nqb

  • Anonymous

    tinyurl.com/24n4nqb

  • Laethdar

    Give it to them on paper printed in binary. all data no breaks commas or spaces

  • DM

    i always hated hotfile but i still hope they dont lose
    they’ve since been replaced by 2 other scummy sites slowsonic and slowupload

  • Imkmk17

    Can anybody who downloaded (not uploaded) from Hotfile get sued? I thought under the current copyright laws it was legal to download just not share or upload?

  • Dave

    so funny reading any kind of comments where people try to defend the cyberlocker business as something for the hosting of legitimate content. Like thousands of people want to download content that is not copyrighted. haha please give me another funny. its friday, i could use it

  • igf1

    simply file chap 7 and relocate to the Ukraine … if more small companies did this, it would give pause to the agenda at the highest level.

  • Djhfdjhfd

    You guy are dumb the reason they want hotfile to turn over all info so they can track down Uploader/ downloader info and give those ip to their isp either request for their info for legal or suspend the service……i just got a notice from verizon about Alleged Copyright violation…same thing from piratebay

  • Pingback: Judge: Hotfile Not Primary Infringer In MPAA Case | TorrentFreak

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