MPAA Says It Doesn’t Need Evidence to Convict Pirates
Written by Ernesto on June 21, 2008Only a few weeks ago, a University of Washington study showed showed how inaccurate the MPAA and RIAA’s evidence gathering techniques are. Now, instead of improving their pirate chasing tactics, the MPAA simply claims they don’t need any evidence to bankrupt “alleged” copyright infringers.
Threat Level reports that the MPAA now argues that it has the right to demand up to $150,000 in damages per illegally downloaded file, without having to proof that someone actually downloaded that file.
Yes we know, this doesn’t make sense at all. Luckily, MPAA lawyer Marie van Uitert explains why copyright holders should be able to claim thousands of dollars without having to proove that a copyright infringement actually took place. In a brief submitted this Friday, as part of the ongoing “making available” debate in the Jammie Thomas case, Van Uitert writes:
“It is often very difficult, and in some cases, impossible, to provide such direct proof when confronting modern forms of copyright infringement, whether over P2P networks or otherwise; understandably, copyright infringers typically do not keep records of infringement.”
So, the MPAA is basically saying that is is too hard to come up with solid evidence, and because of this, they should not have to proove anything. Makes perfect sense doesn’t it? The MPAA wrote the brief in response to a request from a federal Judge last month, who called for a briefing on the claim that having files stored in “shared folders” infringes copyright.
The MPAA of course argues that keeping files in a “shared folder” does equal distribution, and they also make the argument that filesharers authorize others to download these files. Luckily there were also briefs submitted by the EFF, and several professors who argued against this. It is now up to the Judge to decide who’s right and wrong.
Previously: IsoHunt adds 10.000 Free and Legal Albums
Next: The Pirate Bay Pledges ISPs to Block Sweden
98 Responses
That’s just stupid
Ridiculous.
Glad I don’t live in that retarded country that was once the land of the free.
People need to start to be more active over things like this.
he he, at least they aren’t pretending copyright infringment isn’t just a civil matter, like they usually do.
“that was once the land of the free”
It is still the land of the free…
Only if people to things. You are not free unless you vote, be active, take action. If you just sit there, as most file-sharers in the U.S. do, of course you’re not going to be free.
“that was once the land of the free”
It is still the land of the free…
Only if people to things. You are not free unless you vote, be active, take action. If you just sit there, as most file-sharers in the U.S. do, of course you’re not going to be free.
can someone like mr. suitcase who is distributing their work please sue the mpaa for copyright infringement on the grounds that they are connected to the internet and therefore must be filesharing illegally. actually i might send off a couple C&D’s.
lol someone spoof an RIAA computer just like they spoofed those printers to commit copyright infringment.
Fuck’ Em!
They want to squeeze the last cents out of their ’sounbelievablygreat(readSTUPID)lightyearsawayfromarts’ movies??
NO WAY MAFIAA! WE WILL RECLAIM OUR FREEDOM! PEOPLE ARE GETTING TO THEIR SENSES AND WILL FIGHT AGAINST YOUR FOOLISH POLICIES! LONG LIVE TPB & co.!
Everybody just wave goodbye … don’t even bother to get upset by this. It’s their last trip anyway.
Donate to the EFF - NOW!
“So, the MPAA is basically saying that is is too hard to come up with solid evidence, and because of this, they should not have to proove anything.”
Proove = prove
We don’t even need the MPAA for that matter.
why doesn’t this biased TorrentFreak report news considering the Cubas thing? TF personal says they make news anything close to torrenting, AND IT IS!
torrent protocol is outdated anyway
Luckily we don’t use shared folders as torrent users, but that’s the only “good” part about this news…
The fact that the MPAA can now practically do anything they want is totally pointless and crazy… that can’t be let going, they could sue anyone for uploading whatever they say, just to get their cash, because they are too dumb to sell their stuff properly in today’s world…
Do they think, they are god or what?
that is one of the funnest things i have heard in a while. they dont need proof to convict us, yeah like that would roll over in court very well.
i could just see it now, well do you have any prove mr. whatever
actually we dont, its too hard for us to find it, lol
rofl
If that is so, why cant some filesharers sue the MPAA for filesharing? We obv dont need proof…
What makes them so special?
I ain’t havin’ this shit in MY room. Fuck you, bitches. You need some damn evidence if you want to win, assfaces. You think you going to get a conviction without proof, you go shove a shiv up ya sphincter.
TorrentFreak needs to start posting stuff that the average joe can do about this stuff.
Do we gotta write letters, send off angry emails, what?
This is one of the most absurd things I’ve ever seen.
One of the best responses to this that i have read on wired has to be:
“Then by this reasoning I can sue my wife for divorce due to adultery… she may have not actually done the deed but she does have the equipment to do it.”
LOL, that really cracked me up and i really dont think anyone can summerize it better.
Cheers!
http://www.eZee.se - copyright is copyWRONG
ROFL!!!
EPIC FAIL!
Why are you people so surprised this is happening in the U.S?
As for the ‘Land of the Free’ RATM comes to mind.
“What?! The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy!”
I think they are brilliant;-)
But, I also think they are corrupting justice, paying off politicians to pass draconian IP laws, bribing the police and judges etc.
I have no evidence of this (OK, there is some evidence piling up in the TPB case, but apart from that none), of course. But such evidence is very hard to produce, so why should I have to?
i felt strongly about this, but not actually strong enough to do something about it.
@21
That is true… since they broke up their lyrics have just become reality.
Oh, well, just another one of those ridiculous things MAFIAA do every now and then to uphold their reputation. Funny, but nothing new here…
WTF :)
They think they own the world, whatever they say, we will accept ? :-P
Hello NO
FUCK YOU MPAA & RIAA.
Go on MOTHER FUCKER, You are FUCKED up by The Judge also.
I’m sure Judge response will be FUCK OFF :-)
So I guess we can all murder the MPAA/RIAA execs and simply claim self-defense as they were planning to take everything we own.
Cool, we don’t have to prove that they’re planning to do something evil, we just kill them and make some excuse.
*shares more*
I think that the writers behind the torrentfreak should turn this into an activist site.
Perhaps make this into a moveon.org-like website.
MPAA says no to sharing a folder so you access it through your 360 or on another computer in the house..
crackheads
I think we should all send them letters. We should send them priority mail with them as the destination and return address and “forget” to put postage on it. They’ll receive them and have to pay the postal service for each one. It’s almost $5 to send a priority letter ($4.80 I think). So if they get 30,000 letters, we can take that $150,000 from them. ARRRGGHHHH
RIAA:
1025 F ST N.W., 10th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004
http://tinyurl.com/4asg7b
MPAA:
200 White Plains Road 1st Floor
Tarrytown, NY 10591
http://tinyurl.com/o6rzf
I think we need to have some kind of voting coordination, and also some kind of fund raising coordination.
You know… if the judge rules in favor of the MPAA, this basically makes SMB and other networking protocols illegal
> “Perhaps make this into a moveon.org-like website.”
That site is terrible, they act like Obama (who has already said attacking Iran and Pakistan is an option) is some saviour.
One o in “prove”, duude.
Your article is laden with spelling errors. Prove, not proove. Way to sound like an authority on the matter.
In my opinion, voting is useless. Most politicians are corrupt. If they aren’t corrupt before they run for office, they end up corrupt when the millions in campaign contributions start rolling in from the likes of the MPAA and RIAA. The select few who are actually honest and care about the people are greatly outnumbered by the majority who only care about pleasing their backers and so can’t really do anything.
Electing an honest politician is like pouring a shotglass of water on a fire.
Proove is not a word, it’s prove. Torrentfreak can’t afford spellchecker?
Everyone is taking the wrong response to this. They stated quite clearly that they don’t need evidence to demand a $150,000 fee from a person. Why doesn’t everyone who was going to post here just write a document or draw a little picture in paint, put it into their shared folder, and then tell the MPAA that they owe them their money. The MPAA has internet access in their buildings, and since it was in the shared folder every single one of their computers has the possiblility of TAKING your file from you. Therefore every one of their computers DID access it (illegally). Oh, and that proof that they are wanting is going to be pending for a long while.
I demand £150,000,000 in compensation from the MPAA due to them killing my parents, wife and children in a blood thirsty orgy of violence.
I cannot prove any of this but monkey see monkey do.
Wonderful news for Microsoft!
If you share your C: drive then they (MS) can come after you for illegally distributing their OS.
Makes just as much sense, IMO.
LOL, Welcoem to the New Regime! The new Police State! No need for trial, just GUILTY period. LOL Jerks!
JT
http://www.FireMe.to/udi
This is the same in England too. I’m a forensic investigator and I can guarantee that if someone has downloaded something illegal (such as CP) using P2P and it is in a “shared folder” they will be prosecuted for distribution too - the only hope the defendant has is to show that they didn’t know that the software worked in that way.
I personally agree with it but this has to be considered on a case by case basis. If you use P2P to illegally download you have to be prepared to meet significant opposition whether it be civilly or criminally.
I hate America more and more every day.
“You know… if the judge rules in favor of the MPAA, this basically makes SMB and other networking protocols illegal”
If this is what they are talking about then they are obviously mad but I believe that they are not talking about network shares, but rather folders that software such as Kazaa and LimeWire use to store completed files. These are folders that other users of their respective networks can access. This being the case the users have the options to not share their files.
Obviously this is disregarding the fact that P2P as a whole means that you are sharing/distributing as you download so, in theory by the sheer fact that you have downloaded files using P2P shows that you have been distributing.
I sue the mpaa for pirating my movie!
> “It is still the land of the free…”
No it is not. There are plenty of things that are illegal that do not harm others, therefore Americans (like the rest of the world) are not free.
Don’t hope “someone” does something. You do something.
http://www.senate.gov
http://www.house.gov
Tell’em what you think
Spread the word
They’re just saying it’s hard to find evidence, not that they feel they don’t “need” to. More propaganda please.
Check your spelling and grammar, specifically the use of “proof” and “proove” (which of course should be “prove”)
Marie van Uitert
sounds dutch to me, and I thought the dutchies were smart :-P
This shared folder argument is essential guilt by association! It’s the criminal equivalent if I go to a party and the police suddenly raid the room and find a crack pipe, everyone will get arrested for smoking crack even if though there’s no evidence! I didn’t smoke the crack pipe, I didn’t even know it was there and my blood and/or urine will not be tested but I will be found guilty and will have to do jail time because a crack pipe was found by the police in a common party room where I and hundreds of other people were found in!
That’s the epitome of a police state! The same thing happened to the entertainment industry back in the 1950’s with the black list! Even if you associated with known communists in your past, you were branded as communist (guilt by association) and unless you named names, you would be black listed!
As a Canadian, I find it ironic that American politicians are willing to make guilt by association on copyright infringement a law but what’s more criminal is the number of Americans without health insurance or basically hold inadequate insurance that won’t cover the costs of major illness–now that’s criminal! It’s OK to let the poor die of cancer but if some kid illegally downloads a song, he/she needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law!
American politicians’ priorities are ass backwards!
Um, http://torrentfreak.com/mediadefender-goes-forward-with-p2p-marketing-080614/
MediaDefender has torrents available to be shared. Maybe this is a good thing, the anti-pirate industry can start self destructing from the inside and all we have to do is watch.
If the MPAA were smart they would setup dummy sights and let people download then bust them with records of there downloads. Ha
To all the people pointing out the proove thing: Ernesto is Dutch. Can you speak Dutch without making spelling mistakes, or even at all?
SO according to the cops can kick down you door and send you to jail and don’t have to prove a thing? Pretty sure that one of the ammendments deals with that.
Marie L. van Uitert.
Another corporate hack to add to the list. No big surprise that she’s with the asshats at Wolff & Donnelly, the same douchebags that represent the thieves that stole Shareaza. Funny how all the turds end up swimming in the same bowl.
For those who would like to express a more “personal” opinion here’s her info:
Marie L. van Uitert
Plaza VII, Suite 3300
45 South Seventh Street
Minneapolis, MN 55402
Telephone: 612-607-7336
Email: mvanuitert@oppenheimer.com
Her photo: http://i25.tinypic.com/eu0a60.jpg
Her bio page: http://www.oppenheimer.com/attorneys/detail.asp?owdid=965
just download the file and move the file to a folder that’s not named “Shared Folder”
If you go by the Constitution, there’s no way this will fly. Without proof, the prosecutors have no case. Of course, if the MPAA is able to bribe the judge, they will just wipe their ass with the Constitution.
might wana read animal farm
he knew it years ago.. not much diff then how the us is treating the enemy combatants really… a sad day to be american in many many ways…
They’re just trying to cut out the middleman. The government is already ignoring habeas corpus, so the corporations that run the government think they should have the same privilege.
Hi, I’ve been reading TorrentFreak for a while now and I’m pretty happy with the stories, however there’s one thing that bugs me… Incorrect spelling/grammar:
“without having to proof that someone”
“without having to proove that a copyright infringement”
“they should not have to proove anything.”
- In all cases, the correct spelling is ‘prove’
I’m not bagging you out, its just that when reading an article, I tend to lose confidence in the author if they repeatedly make the same mistakes. Perhaps putting your articles through a spell checker before submitting them would be a good idea.
(This comment is in no way grammatically correct, it’s just an informal response)
In conclusion, TorrentFreak rocks, MPAA sucks :P
Sorry, didn’t read all the comments before posting. I believe my comment had already been covered :P
what’s the MPAA? More importantly, however, I am new to downloading torrents. I would like to learn how to work with the files after downloading.. is there a site that offers advice?
The MPAA makes me laugh. F$#% ‘em… If they don’t need to “proove” anything then I don’t need to show up for court. I’m innocent until proven guilty, in case they forgot.
wowww what next??????
Wow if this gets accepted, well I dunno, I think I may become an American revolutionist instead of just moving out. I do like to incite some rebellions. That judge would have to be ass backwards if it got accepted though. I’d definitely pull some counter suits on them though if it got accepted.
As to America being the land of the free, I don’t remember where I read this, but here you have the freedom to be a slave or the freedom to starve. As for another reference, you’re never free till you lose everything. Time to choose though, be a slave or starve?
You’re all thieves. Get over yourself.
And you obviously dont understand shit.
Go back to your little cubicle job robot man.
Found this on wiki (i know wiki can sometimes be completely pointless and full of lies)
Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the 5th, 6th and 14th amendments. See also Coffin v. United States
The won’t be able to do any thing.
The basic is the sharing. life for the free.
Charges: Murder, Rape
Evidence: None
Verdict: GUILTY!
Not an expert on copyright laws, but I was wondering whether downloading ( copying ) of a copy, would be considered same as copying the original?
Besides, considering that torrent is something which means you are just downloading ‘random’ chunks and ’synthesizing’ them at your desktop. Does it qualify as ‘copying’ the whole from original?
I mean, can these statements be refuted (or supported) from law book of copyright infringement?
Because of their monitoring system is failing, they are on pursuit claiming no evidence is needed.
MPAA = Hilter
Lawless
Law = evidence
Wow american are all gays, and they surrender to MPAA, I hope you will all die
this just proves what I have said all along. this is just the MPAA wanting more money from the public than it deserves. in a court of law you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the party is guilty of anything. apparently not according to the illegal department of the MPAA…. and RIAA
Gah, I hope this copyright shit ends soon. Or at least gets improved drastically.
“MPAA Says No Proof Needed in P2P Copyright Infringement Lawsuits”…oops. I can’t believe they’ve actually said that out loud. Mmm…
Wow, that’s just absurd. Just hope that they get a judge that’s actually smart enough to see that and not cave into hype.
By that same token though, I’m going to sue the MPAA for intellectual property theft as well. I have hidden plans for an Electronic Pickle ™ on my system, and they’ve downloaded it. Going to sue them for millions, and the best part is I don’t have to prove it. Wahh it’s just too hard.
A typical MPAA goon talking to a superior:
Goon:
“GRRRRRRRR”
Superior:
“What’s wrong?”
Goon:
“I lost my game of pinball, those damn file sharing jackasses are going to pay!”
Superior:
“Good idea, but how are we gonig to get them?”
Goon:
“We’ll replace the judge and re-write the law, besides, I need some money so I can pay for this full download site.”
What a bunch of fools, how the hell can you say you DON’T need evidence, what would they be accusing anyone of?
Content theft is an ongoing activity on the internet. The adult entertainment industry is losing money rapidly due to their content being exposed illegaly and for free. Untill today there has been no affordable solution to fight content theft/piracy for adult webmasters, producers and distributors. Alecy provides a service for both starters and established adult industry members to fight content theft in an affordable and efficient matter.
alecy.com
Someone, punish this alecy spammer in an “adult entertainment industry” way…
How the hell do these people learn to turn on a pc? Let alone use the internet?
I demand that we track down the traitors and lobotomize them before they teach them how to form illogical sentences.
“You are not free unless you vote”
BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MPAA make me laugh…do they think file sharers are all dumb asses that are going to swallow the crap they try shoving down our throats??
MPAA are getting VERY desperate by the sound of it!!
@alecy…you are a moron and i despise everything you stand for..hope you Rott in spam heaven wiv the rest of the scumbag spammers
Not that is hasn’t been teetering on the brink for a while.
Seriously, there’s lots of cases where the US laws aren’t logical:
Ex(real examples): a spammer sends lots of people spam mail without showing the senders email address (which can be done somehow). Recipient tracks the IP and finds the real email address or something like that, posts on blog about it. Said spammer sues recipient for defamation. Said recipient countersues under CANSPAM act. Said spammer wins because “the email address is there since the recipient managed to figure out the spammer’s identity”….that’s flawed logic. If you don’t know the spammers identity, how are you supposed to press charges?! If you know it, then you can’t press charges?!
Another example:
Thief gets into a person’s house. Gets stuck in the garage, can’t get out. Said owner are on a vacation. Owner comes back, finds thief near death, gives food, hospitalizes, doesn’t even press charges immediately, and thief sues owner for not having “food” in the house (or something like that). Said thief WINS the court case.
Hang on, am I reading this right?
They’re saying that “making files available” is equal to “authorising the downloads”, right?
If so, and downloaders are “authorised”… Then downloading files in all cases becomes legal, the sole responsibility lays with the uploader?
If people are STILL not authorised to download, then the uploaders are simply “making available” and so they can’t be held responsible.
“MPAA are getting VERY desperate by the sound of it!!”
This is the bottom line, in all honesty. The MPAA is getting extremely desperate (as is the RIAA) so they are throwing out every bullshit argument they can think of in order to hopefully get one to stick.
Guess what? IT ISN’T GOING TO! Jammie Thomas is going to get a new trial. Another case was just thrown out of the courts, and the person the RIAA sued was given legal fees and punitive damages against the RIAA.
Things are just NOT going the way the MPAA and RIAA want them to go.
LAWL
that is all
thats right they don’t need evidence to bankrupt people. true enough, people just pay out of court settlements, or if not, legal fees will do it no matter who wins
America is the land of corrupt politician
Land of servants
Land of mentally challenged
Land of religious fanatic
Men and women think they are free while slaving themselves to some useless job making their owner richer… It’s corruption on a mass scale… If the people allow this to happen then they only have themselves to blame. I will talk but if others aren’t listening to the few that really cares what can we do?
LAWS, EVIDENCE, privacy, due process etc etc etc are overrated MMMkay. Besides little people are not important its the big corporations that are hurting!
CMON people don’t pick of these majestic dinosaurs, if a few hundred thousand Americans have to be feed to appease the beast then so be it(and lose everything they have in the process). Heck downloading one of the mostly crappy movies that are made should be worth your life, heck how would we have lived without cult classics like THE HULK, The lakehouse and all the other bile spewed up these days.
More content the rest of the world can just download i guess….
Besides who needs to make good movies when you can make 100k or whatever per person dumb enough to download anything.
REASON IS OVERRATED XD
Like paying tom cruise to be in anything… But reason/common sense does not apply….
Don’t be surprised, this just may work for the MPAA.
In the US you can be convicted for possession of drugs even though there is no evidence. The accusation is all that is needed.
So much for innocent until proven guilty…
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