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Music Biz Wants To Swap ISP Disconnections For Cash Fines

For years entertainment companies have put huge efforts into campaigns to inflict so-called “three strikes” campaigns on errant Internet users who download music and movies for free. The ultimate sanction of disconnection has always been touted as necessary in order for people to take things seriously but over in France, a country that pioneered graduated response, it seems that the music biz now wants to ditch disconnections in favor of fines.

For the last decade entertainment companies around the world have grappled with the problem of unauthorized file-sharing. They’ve tried shutting down sites, taking people to court, lobbying, bullying, and combinations of all of the above.

What the approaches have in common is that they’ve all largely failed to achieve the end goal. Perhaps realizing this, in more recent times rightsholders have been considering what results could be achieved through a more “educational” approach. This way of thinking has developed into various “strike” regimes, through which consumers are warned they’re being monitored in the hope that they take a different course of action in future.

Of course, the music business in particular has been swift to note that while people should be pushed in the right direction with a couple of warnings, ultimately there needs to be some kind of sanction – such as throttling or even complete disconnection of an infringer’s Internet account – should people fail to be persuaded.

After more than five years of lobbying this ultimate punishment was built into the French Hadopi scheme but despite the issuing of more than a million warnings, people just aren’t being disconnected. Not only is the measure unpopular and open to challenge, just last summer Culture Minister Aurélie Filippetti described account suspension as “a disproportionate sanction against the end goal.”

So, with the disconnection option now pretty much dead in France, what could replace it as a deterrent? Getting hit in the pocket, it seems.

Noises coming out of Midem suggest that the French music industry is now putting its weight behind the implementation of a fining system.

UPFI, (Union of Independent Phonographic Producers), said that it agreed with the opinion of French music rights group SACEM that a disconnection regime should be replaced with warnings along with fines of 140 euros.

PCInpact contacted Jerome Roger, Director General of UPFI, who confirmed the group is indeed in favor of such fines.

This leaning towards cash penalties is also endorsed by Warner Music President Thierry Chassagne. In recent comments Chassange suggested that not enough punishments have been handed out under Hadopi and that a deterrent is necessary.

“There has not been a lot of repression. This part of the mission has failed,” Chassange said. “If we consider that downloading is illegal, it must be punished, it is not a novelty. I think a system of fines would be more proportionate.”

The so-called “six strikes” scheme in the United States (due to begin anytime now) has no disconnection option baked in, although some ISPs do have a clause in their terms of service which allows them to stop doing business with any customer over copyright abuse. However, if U.S. consumers still don’t get the message, one has to wonder how they would respond to $190 fines landing in their mailboxes.

Update: Our friends at Numerama have been told by sources familiar with the matter that it has already been 99% decided a new law will replace the internet suspension sanction with administrative fines (which means they would not be issued by a court after due process, but issued automatically by an administrative body).

“Discussions remain as to how to set the thing up in the law ; the automatic fine system could be handled by a dedicated administrative authority, such as the current Hadopi’s Rights Protection Commitee ; or by the Superior Audiovisual Concil, which is the current administrative body for television and radio. The new law will be debated in Parliement in early 2013,” Numerama editor Guillaume Champeau told TorrentFreak.

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  • Guest

    they show their face, finally

    • InDaFace

      But we knew what their face looked like the whole time.

      • http://twitter.com/CrAppl_dot_com St1ve Joebs

        Yep, a big pile of stinking sh!t – just like their souls.

        • Ralph Brubaker

          how long this ‘disconnection order’ is good for? life? on all isps?

    • Nasty

      Definitively. These corporate criminals have became so arrogant that they are not even hiding their crimes anymore. They represent a mortal danger to our society and it is time to do something big such as bringing down their chairmans and CEOs.

      • Guest
        • Kevin Grech

          I’m not one of the U.S.A. citizens but you’ll have to spread the word to the entire continent for that to work. If it was for me I’d do a worldwide boycott. No TV watching, no subscriptions, no DVDs. But I doubt most of the population would agree with me.

        • http://www.callumpy.co.uk Callumpy

          I often wish things like this would work. I’m up for it.
          I can add it onto my not buying anything EA related thing.

        • Psy_Commando

          Personally, I haven’t bought anything endorsed by the MAFIAA in at least one year ! And I wasn’t even trying.

          All my music is video game remixes and stuff that people made and put online.
          I haven’t seen any movies this year, I’ve been watching random vids on youtube instead.
          I don’t even pirate anything, because I might have a change of heart and pay for it, as usual..

          I do believe its possible to boycott these guys.

          Don’t you stop eating sugary and dairy products when you have diarrhea ? All that because not having to go to the bathroom each 5 mins is incentive enough to restrain yourself.
          The MAFIAA and crappyrights are much worse than diarrhea !

    • Schlomo Bergstein

      le happy merchant face

  • Lulz

    They can’t fine me if it’s not a law. Fuck the six strikes.

    • Tracking

      They don’t care about laws.

    • Guest321

      They are already trying to buy that law that enables them to fine you without a court order.

  • I’mJustSayin

    Threatening people financially has already been tried, and failed, right? What makes them think it would put a dent in file sharing traffic this time? They are running in circles.

    • http://twitter.com/CrAppl_dot_com St1ve Joebs

      Nope, now they are using an old excuse but want a paycheck. They have little interest in putting a dent in file sharing if they are making money hand over fist.

      • Anonymous

        Yup. They already get money from CDs, DVDs, HDDs, rentals, all radio- and TV-channels, libraries, magazines, and so on, but it’s not enough. Heck, these are already acting like taxes and it’s still not enough.

        If France is so happy to go with this, maybe they should just abolish copyright and implement a flat 1% income tax for copyright regiments. (Of which 0.15% would go to the actual artists.)

    • Guest

      You’d think France of all places would understand this. They’ve already tried threatening people with death over copyright (in the fashion industry).

      Spoilers: Even the death penalty had little to no effect. If people want to share, they will share. Simple as that.

      Industries should adapt to reality, not try to force reality to adapt to them.

    • Nasty

      Because they are stuck in an infinite loop of stupidity and nastiness. A bullet in the head is what it will take to stop this insanity.

      • Guest321

        Amazing how easily they are able to get these outrageous anti-people laws passed. They can just buy their own laws with money. Its time Americans took their country back from the clutches of these corporate parasites.

    • Guest

      “Threatening people financially has already been tried, and failed, right?”

      Yes, that’s where we started. Get caught sharing once and you will be sued. We heard that for 7 or 8 years until they backed off.

      “What makes them think it would put a dent in file sharing traffic this time?

      They don’t. This is a cash grab, nothing more.

      Sounds mellow in principle, but in practice, without court oversight, people would be forced to figure out how to jailbreak the system to protect themselves.

  • edfiygig

    The rich should be shot

    • 7th_Guest

      I don’t have a problem with the rich per se; Buffet and Gates are decent, contributing members of society in my book (these days). I have a problem with the ungrateful rich, insidiously kicking the ladder and cunningly changing the rules after they’ve become members of the wealthy elite to shirk the legal and ethical obligations that their new class status would place on ‘em. Incumbent wealth, as Jon Stewart has put it, if you will. Those assholes are the ones asking for it.

  • abcd

    people will never stop pirating things, get used to it ~.~

    greedy fucks

    • Kiss My Face

      I couldn’t agree more I started pirating when I was kid cross taping beta max to beta max,Technology may have moved on but my desire to pirate is still the same,I LOVE IT AND WILL DO IT UNTIL THE DAY I DIE!!

  • Mads

    What should that industry be referred to then? The vigilante industry? The extortionists? They claim to be hardly selling their main product and now they are looking into other avenues of business.

    • ScrewEwe2

      Extortionist Abortionists. They fuck you and then remove your money.

  • cupid_stunt

    can’t we barter instead, i get so many eggs, hell, i would throw a dozen in for free just tell me when and where to throw them, i’m a pretty good shot

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      This is France we’re talking about. You piss of a few thousand peasants, they dump ten tons of manure on the steps to parliament or smash a few thousand bottles of champagne on the E4.

      Eggs? The french peasantry would call you a n00b. You won’t be taken as a serious demonstrator until you’ve plastered a few politicians with fermented cow patties.

      • Right

        Tout est relatif.

      • Kevin Grech

        Your post made me laugh

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          It IS hilarious.

          Also true. You wouldn’t believe the utter contempt the average frenchman has for anybody in “authority”.

          It’s enough to make me wonder if their traditional lack of military success can’t be blamed on the bugler blowing attack and the troops all saying “screw you lot, I’m going home”.

  • ShEsHy

    “There has not been a lot of repression.”
    “If we consider that downloading is illegal, it must be punished”

    Seriously? I was under the impression that repression was a bad thing in general and that downloading is not illegal.

    • DWAN

      “All sinners must burn in hell”

      Not my words.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      That syntax sounds worryingly like someone we know. Have we finally uncovered “Baghdad Bob”-Anon’s identity?

  • samdchuck

    Looks like they realised that people without an internet connection don’t spend money online anymore. Idiots.

    • Ralph Brubaker

      lol, exactly. and I wonder how long this ‘disconnection order’ is good for? life? on all isps?

  • Profound Desperado

    Wait… so, they want money…. I never would have guessed that *shrugs*

  • Scary_Devil_Monastery

    Looks like the threat of getting their budget cut motivated the HADOPI to turn to another shining model of revenue – with a potential 140 million euro up for the taking at the trouble of sending a few mails.

    That’s all this is about. The mass mail extortion scam, implemented in the one country where it could possibly fly. France.

    That said I actually hope this goes through. The french citizenry has a very consistent and predictable way of reacting when they find government agencies telling them what to do or not. Given what happens if you piss off a few thousand peasants, I can’t wait to see what happens when you piss off up to a million households.

    • djnforce9

      Why in theory, it would be awesome to see a massive outburst against the MAFIAA. However, I’m afraid too many would just pay up rather than fight it. What would be nice instead is if people in power or relatives thereof were slapped with the fine. That would raise eyebrows. That is unless the MAFIAA just ignores them so as to not jeopardize their stupid scheme.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        In any other country I might be tempted to agree with you – nevermind that no other country has ever had a hope of getting some lunacy like HADOPI implemented.

        However, this is france. The body politic tends to see if laws will work by implementing them. If the citizenry ignores the law, everyone pretends it never happened. If the law results in ten tons of manure being dumped on the steps to parliament the law is retracted and everyone pretends it never happened.

        And the treshold of public tolerance to politician antics is very very low. Chassange can say what he says because he knows the person buried in a ditch by irate gauls will be the politician dumb enough to allow his name to be associated with the law.

        • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

          It could only happen in France. Doesn’t France have a much stricter justice system than anywhere else in the world, with the exception of the unofficial american justice system of “disappearing them in the middle of the night to Guantanamo Bay without a trial until they feel like doing something else”?

          I mean, as far as actual justice systems go in the civilized world, I’ve heard France has one of the strictest. If so, this fits.

      • Guest

        “That is unless the MAFIAA just ignores them so as to not jeopardize their stupid scheme.”

        ding ding ding, we have a winner!

        Look at how much file sharing goes on within the government or within movie studios and MPAA offices, as uncovered by swarm monitoring sites. How many strikes do you think those places will receive when Six Strikes goes live?

      • MadAsASnake

        Absolutely. And when a couple of judges receive these “fines”, I bet they’ll be queitly dropped. I’ve said it before. These schemes should, by law, be required to be 100% exemption free.

    • koe

      I live in France, and the answer is more and more households switch to vpn and newsgroups, sadly nothing as radical as you suggest will happen…

  • hmm

    les baiser

  • Not ‘Merican Guest

    I wish I’ve lived in ‘Merica… so I can take a shit and send it back as a response mail!

  • http://woodquinn.x10.mx/ Quinn

    “If we consider that downloading is illegal, it must be
    punished, it is not a novelty.”

    We don’t, and never have. If anyone considered it to be illegal, the legal system would fine individuals and you wouldn’t have to. You can’t even pretend you don’t understand that concept because you constantly try to get the legal system to act on your behalf.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Actually, given the entire sentence of Mr. Chassange, the gist seems to be he’s happy enough if there’s just some more repression.

      Which reminds me eerily of another popular poster around here. Is our dear Anon – aka “Baghdad Bob” – too busy gargling in extasy over Chassange’s words to even post a suitably unctuous wholehearted approval?

      • Guest

        I’m pretty sure that’s not ecstasy he’s gargling, unless extasy just became the new euphemism for Cowper’s fluid.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          For our dear “Baghdad Bob”, who knows? As long as there’s punishment, he does not seem to care overly much who is getting punished.

  • Not Justified

    ” “six strikes” scheme in the United States (due to begin anytime now)”……. It’s already began…..I received my first warning on Christmas day. Comcast warned me because an episode of “Justified” was downloaded. I pay for FX already, but I guess because I want to view it on my computer they want me to pay more.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      And this is part and parcel of why they cling so hard to the old models. The more “honest” pro-copyright trolls around have admitted as much. That license you “obtain” to view the media you just bought does not extend to viewing the media in any other format.

      Which is why they went after DVD-Jon so hard when he invented DeCSS. This industry plans around a business model where everyone should pay multiple times for one and the same media.

      • Christopher Kidwell

        Which people are getting pissed off about and are saying “Fuck you!” now.

    • Rekrul

      It’s already began…..I received my first warning on Christmas day.
      Comcast warned me because an episode of “Justified” was downloaded. I
      pay for FX already, but I guess because I want to view it on my computer
      they want me to pay more.

      Cancel your cable, pay for a VPN and download all your TV shows.

      • Guest

        “Cancel your cable, pay for a VPN and download all your TV shows.”

        If they push hard, this will be the only sane and safe alternative, even if you’ve never torrented before.

    • Wallace

      They’ve always sent those out. The strikes system just counts them. That’s not in effect yet.

      Why are you torrenting Justifed when there are so many less public ways to get it?

  • wow

    va te faire foutre, putain de merde

    • john

      langage,imbecile!!!
      on est ici pour discuter pas pour dire des gros mots…cretin!!

  • dondilly

    I cant see the fines being enforcible in ;aw.

    The truth behind this little wheeze is that not only to the MAFIAA know the evidence is unreliable but that p2p downlowns do not translate into lost sales.

    However unlikely it is, even if they do reducep2p traffic online, it does not mean increased revenue for them (quite the opposite as they waste money on the 6 strikes prog and political bribes)

    They see fines as a guarenteedmethod of generating a new revenue stream for crap product people wouldnt buy once they heard it.

    • MadAsASnake

      Not that any of the revenue would ever finds it’s way to any artist, of course.

  • Guest

    “Needs moar repression”? That’s the crux of his argument?

    Wow, and industry cocksuckers wonder why nobody likes them. If repression is an admitted part of your business model not even a mother could like you!

    • MadAsASnake

      Amazing – there is not enough repression in HADOPI. Given that the first of a tiny number of “successful” prosecutions was against someone who did not do it and they knew he did not do it, it is difficult to imagine just what these people are thinking. It is for the court to impose fines, not the French variant of the RIAA through faulty accusations.

  • ScrewEwe2

    The UPFI, (Union of Independent Phonographic Producers) must be getting their ideas from the (Union of Idiotic Pornography Producers).

  • Windlasher

    If we assume that people wont stop pirating, then what they are saying is that if we catch you, we are going to fine you. A $200 fine on your ISP bill might be somewhat of a deterrent, but it’s better than $150K per file.

    My question is wouldn’t they still have to prove that it was you doing the pirating. Possible they could use the same proof as those stop light cameras. i.e. It’s you fucking car, pay the fucking ticket or drag the asshole you loaned your car to into court and get them to confess. Hmmmm.

    • dondilly

      If they try adding the fine to your isp bill, just change isp. It is not a debt they could recover through the courts as they would first have to show liability. When in reality they have little more chance of picking on the right people were they to use a lottery number generator.

      • Windlasher

        Not that easy. I have business class service. 24/7 support yada yada. I also have a contract. Breaking the contract would be more than the fine. The other ISP here sucks and is three times as expensive. They may not be able to prove liability. SO, if you are a heavy file sharer, what are you going to do, change ISPs every 6 months when you get caught?

        Unfortunately the world does not survive on the “fuck em if they cant take a joke” mentality that you seem to have. If I lose my internet, my business dies, I have no online access, no phones, etc. It’s easier to buy the damned DVD.

        • MadAsASnake

          And if you don’t share files at all and still get caught? This is likely to be pretty common.

  • TerribleTony

    I predict a large pile of unpaid fines.

    • Christopher Kidwell

      I also predict a good number of dead French policemen if they try to enforce these fines.

      If you are going to be treated as a criminal in one way, why not act like a criminal in another way and buy an illegal firearm?

      • koe

        If you dont pay fines in France, the court can just take it out of your bank account (+the late fee), you dont f@ck with the authorities easily here… Which makes this latest anti-piracy system even nastier than any other country I can think of…

  • 2013sUxAlready

    FUCK YOU! That means that frenchies neighbours will adapt to that scheme sooner or later. I can’t fucking stand that shit. What are they going to compare sharing with drunk driving and speeding now? And confiscate your goddamn laptop or smarthpone if you reach a certain amount of fines O_o ?

    Fellow kopimists, pirates, sharers, seeders and even all you leeching teabaggers. We clearly do NOT inflict ENOUGH damage on those pricks.

  • TheyAreOnDrugs

    Knowing as we do that their IP = an infringer theory is totally unreliable and that you have no way of disproving it just as they have no way of proving it they basically now want a “You get fined” lottery. Scary thing is they are slowly getting rid of innocent till proven guilty by a court of law.

    • TheyAreOnDrugs

      Punctuation would have helped LOL

    • koe

      Actually, a large part of the French system is based upon Napoleonic law, whereby the onus is on you to prove your innocence, not the other way round.

      For example, a private company, can sue an individual through the court for non payment of debt / fines etc, the court then has the authority to access your bank account to remove the funds (even if you are not aware of the proceedings – i.e. the private company filed it through an address you no longer live at- I had 800 Euro taken from my account last year and the bank couldnt even tell me who or why- just the name of the court)

  • ScrewEwe2

    OT, has anyone heard any News on how Rob8urcakes is doing? Checked his Twitter feed and his last post there was in November.

    • Twitter

      Jan 18 (twitter)

      Julia O’Dwyer‏@jrodwyer
      @torrentfreak @rob8urcakes is dying and really missing you guys if u have his number txt him if not I have it

      @jrodwyer Can you mail it?

      18 JanTorrentFreak‏@torrentfreak
      @jrodwyer Can you mail it?

      Julia O’Dwyer‏@jrodwyer
      @torrentfreak yes he is missing you guys

  • dondilly

    With the unreliability of ip evidence, fines of 140 euros would make it cost effective for even the innocent to invest in a vpn service.

    So again, major FAIL. The introduction of fines, rather than linning the pockets of the music industry in an unjust cash grab, it will act as a direct subsidy to offshore vpn services.

  • justanother

    I wouldn’t worry about any of this. Just toss the bill in the trash and carry on.

  • RIAATarded

    Dinosaurs: Fuck off please!

  • dondilly

    HEY TF, that Warner Music guy. Theirry Chassagne, You sure you spelt his name correctly ????

    Shouldn’t that be THEIVERY Chassagne?

  • bioglass

    of course they do. I’m an indie artist and would never trust those label fuckers or their lawyers. Greedy douchebags.

  • Des

    Lost In Translation
    “… it is not a novelty”
    Duh… direct translation of the French “ce n’est pas une nouveauté” which, in this context, actually means “nothing new there”.

  • anonymous

    the reason being obvious. the more people that are disconnected, the less there are to download files, regardless of whether they are legal files or not. by keeping ‘so called infringing file sharers’ connected, the entertainment industries can continue conning the courts into inflicting massive fines which go to the industries, not the artists. they then dont have to do anything else to update the business models that got those industries into the muddle they are in now and can keep the revenue stream coming in with minimal expenditure. sooner or later, hopefully, the courts, law enforcement and governments everywhere are going to realise what plums they are being made to look. it only takes one to see sense, stand up against these parasitic arse holes and the rest would follow!!

  • Wallace

    “This leaning towards cash penalties is also endorsed by Warner Music President Thierry Chassagne. In recent comments Chassange suggested that not enough punishments have been handed out under Hadopi and that a deterrent is necessary.
    ‘There has not been a lot of repression. This part of the mission has failed,’ Chassange said.”

    There you have it, from the horse’s mouth – strikes programs don’t lessen piracy. That part of the mission has failed.

    Also, this quote reveals that the goal of strikes programs is to explore new sources of revenue, not sell more digital music and movies. Therefore, “piracy” is a marketing slogan, not a problem.

  • Ray Carroll

    I really didn’t know anything about computers until torrents came along, now I know more than people who have went to school to learn about them. I have no problem with the six strikes law, it will only expand my educating to a new level in privacy and how to avoid detection. I’m almost looking forward to it. It will be a nice little challenge.

  • http://twitter.com/wethrowpie we throw pie

    I don’t see how this is going to stop them from just randomly deciding you’ve pirated something, even if you haven’t, and fining you. Really what they’ve done is allowed the music industry to arbitrarily assign fees to anyone it wants. This is like a ‘protection’ scheme from a maffia movie or something.

  • Guest

    And the next law will be one that gives the music big labels a share of the money.
    Just wait for it.

  • baba

    And why the fuck should Warner Music President Thierry Chassagne have any say on how people who break the law are punished?
    He is president of a shitty music company, not the fucking world. Nobody elected him, he does not have any rights to speak on behalf of a whole country.

  • MadAsASnake

    I wonder if the clowns that run HADOPI have considered getting tough on the requirement it makes on Rights Holders? The one that requires them to make media much more available? This side of the equation is an even bigger failure than the “monitoring, education and enforcement” part

  • http://echavez74.myopenid.com/ CiEZ

    money grubbing bitch ass tea bagging fucks!

  • CrapWebsite

    Click the button to load more comments!! Nah I’ll go to a more friendly site to participate.

  • Guest

    Well, shit. bobmail swore that HADOPI was totally working, but now here’s the Warner Music President saying it doesn’t work for shit and it has failed to deter pirates.

    How will you explain THIS away, Bob?

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Judging from history, Bobmail and Anon will work hard to forget about it, and mistake the next time an MPAA executive farts as the signal for the cavalry to charge.

      Which they will obediently do, dragging a limping threadbare long-since-disproven argument along to cast at the windmill.

  • guest

    I don’t watch much modern media anyways. It is nothing but time wasting and distracting. There are more important things to do.

    • Ralph Brubaker

      …like post comments on TF.

  • Guest

    It’s all about money. We all knew it from the beginning.

  • iMeZiV0x

    “replace the internet suspension sanction with administrative fines (which means they would not be issued by a court after due process, but issued automatically by an administrative body).”

    So ignore it. Let them take you to court, and for them to pay for the fees after it’s dismissed based on weak circumstantial evidence.

  • aqffffqf

    I down vote myself

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  • Andrew Lee

    I knew this was going to lead to mass extortion.

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