UK “MP3 Police” Evidence Unchallenged, Not For Public Consumption
Written by enigmax on July 26, 2008This week, ISPs agreed to work with the BPI to reduce file-sharing in the UK. When someone gets ‘caught’ the ISPs will send out a warning, 100% based on music industry provided ‘evidence’. Not even the ISPs know if the claims of the BPI are true, so the evidence is totally unchallenged, a perfect position for the music industry.
On Thursday, every type of media outlet in the UK – newspapers, Internet, radio shows, TV and teletext all bristled with the same news. Six major ISPs had agreed to start sending out warning letters to alleged file-sharers after the government ordered action to decrease online piracy.
Most people seem to be interested in what happens after a letter is received, but who decides who gets a letter in the first place? Well, that’s the self-appointed job of the BPI (the British Phonographic Industry), a completely commercial organization set up to serve the interests of the music business and they don’t want you to know (in any detail) how their file-sharing tracking systems work. The same systems would’ve been used should they have been successful in their demands for “3 strikes and you’re out” yet there is zero transparency – everyone is supposed to blindly accept what they say as truth and that simply can’t be healthy.
In recent comments, a Carphone Warehouse spokesman further indicated that it is expected to take action against its customers based purely on the ‘evidence’ provided by the BPI. “What we have agreed to do is to write to our customers and advise them there’s been an alleged infringement,” he said. “We’re very clear that we don’t know if that’s the case or not, we’ve just been told there has been and we want to advise them of that.”
So in a nutshell, the BPI provide all the ‘evidence’, and the ISPs have to blindly believe it and take action against their own customers. To think that a commercial organization like the BPI is allowed to provide its own unchallenged allegations in such a completely non-transparent manner is the real outrage in all of this. If the BPI is to be trusted with such power, it has to be held accountable. If it is to remain credible in its role as the “UK MP3 Police” its systems must be opened up to public scrutiny. Once they are proved to be accurate by a panel of independent experts, then all well and good, but the fact remains that the BPI only give a vague indication of how they operate and have no intentions of elaborating.
Matt Philips, Director of Communications at the BPI refused to tell TorrentFreak how they gather their evidence, so any right-minded individual with an interest in this issue might find themselves asking: “What exactly are they afraid of?”
Clearly, it should be possible from their detailed records for an ISP to confirm or deny the technical evidence provided by the BPI. However, they aren’t in a position to do this since it would be a massive breach of customer privacy. Instead, the word of the BPI is taken at face value.
In a response, some Swedish ISPs have voiced their opinions too. “We don’t want to act like police and feel that a system similar to that in the UK is a deep invasion of privacy,” said Annika Kristersson of Tele2, adding: “It would entail us having to spy on our customers.”
Everyone makes mistakes and no system is flawless so it’s essential to have a verification process before throwing accusations around. Until then, take comfort in knowing that the file-sharing equivalent of home-made, untested, uncalibrated police speed cameras of unknown design and ability are operated by people with a vested interest and are passing judgment on you, your children and potentially (should the BPI get its way) your whole Internet future. A little transparency to inspire confidence isn’t too much to ask.
Previously: EZTV Trials TV-Torrent Streaming
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102 Responses
gettin more and more depressed with the state of things here in the uk…
It will amaze me again and again.
So whats next? Will they allow industry thugs to “prevent” people from sharing files by physically attacking/abducting them? Will they some day propose a “final solution” of the “pirate question”?
Enforcement of the “intellectual property” on private communication is nazi censorship shit. They maybe can mass censor the internet but they wont prevent us from freely communicationg and exchanging information. Disgusting nazi fuckers.
this is crazy, seriously, just kill the bastards :)
It appears they either have to accept the BPI’s claims and send warning letters out on that evidence, or ISPs snoop on our connections and get solid evidence. The 2nd one is absolutely not acceptable, though it feels like it’s going that way. Providing charges are not given based on BPI’s evidence then they can send as many letters as they like, they can stick it.
The greediness and narrow-minded corpateness of institutions like the BPI should not be as acceptable as they are, but due to propaganda and the way we are taught to think, it leaves little hope of genuine change, even if it is wrong. As for the government, they seem to cause more problems than they solve.
Has anyone tried an entanet reseller?
we should all start sending letters to Matt Philips, Director of Communications at the BPI, saying we have proof he is a c***…
@6 loooooooooooooooooool, agreed, this guy seems like one of the commanding assholes.
We all know how they track you, probably the same as MPAA.
If they had anything revolutionary half the country would be in prison including famous people and politicians themselves (everyone downloads imo rofl)
God it must suck to be British. First the food and now this… Where ever will it end?
Unethical and almost criminal in itself, atleast imorral to listnen and trust evidence from a civil industry concerning your own customers.
Those ISPs will loose alot of customers.. And other ISPs with their integrity and common sence left will gain quite a few :)
Theres right and theres wrong, Google giving Microsoft user information who uploaded Bill Gates pie in face movies to Youtube so Microsoft could terminate their Windows would be wrong, exactly as this is..
There is good in this though, customers have a chance to fight it and say NO by leaving for other ISPs or taking it to court etc.
I expect there to be hell in UK, if its not oh well then they dont care about their own rights as customers and its a lost cause in that country..
“Providing charges are not given based on BPI’s evidence then they can send as many letters as they like, they can stick it.”
Spot on mate. If they want to keep the RM in business that’s up to them, save me some cash on bogroll lol. Funny thing is it’s only since the news broke that i’ve actually downloaded any music, haven’t done so for years prior to that……
If you read the court transcripts of either the Grokster or Kazaa case, that particular evidence gathering process is explained. I think it was a rep from MediaSentry in both cases who detailed their process.
Of course gathering evidence for a lawsuit would need be much more stringently verified than the process of making simple infringement claims. (as in mass-harvesting IP addresses from trackers and emailing the cooresponding ISPs using automated software.)
It’s well known that people using no-upload P2P software or connecting from a university that blocks P2P uploads will still get infringement notices. A connection is all that counts.
Emule is known for its long download queues that can make downloaders wait for hours or days before getting the first byte of the file, causing many impatient users give up in the process.
The copyright cops no doubt love that situation, because those long, stagnant emule queues give them plenty of time to harvest IP addresses to make infringement claims against people who neither uploaded nor downloaded anything.
The real criminal here isn’t the BPI (who are basically expected to get away with whatever they can) nor the ISP (who, if given their choice, probably wouldn’t send warnings at all), but the dumbass politician(s) pressuring the ISPs into doing this. It’s the politicians like John McCain, who are so technologically challenged that can’t even check their own email. When BPI tells them their file-sharing system is error-free, they go “oh, sure, okay,” instead of “prove it.”
Bad boys bad boys
Watcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
When they come for you
Bad boys, bad boys
Watcha gonna do, watcha gonna do
When they come for you
When you were eight
And you had bad traits
You go to school and you learn the golden rule
So why are you acting like a bloody fool
If you get hot then you must get cool
Bad boys, bad boys
Watcha gonna do whatcha gonna do
When they come for you
Bad boys, bad boys
Watcha gonna do whatcha gonna do
When they come for you
You chuck it on that one
You chuck it on this one
You chuck it on you mother and
You chuck it on you father
You chuck it on you brother and
You chuck it on you sister
You chuck it on that one and you chuck it on me
Nobody naw give you no break
Police naw give you no break
That old Soldier naw give you no break
Not even your children naw give you no break
This is exactly what Cox does to me, they get a infringement notice, then give me a “strike”. Three strikes and you are out, this is exactly what people are saying would be like the worst thing ever and they already do it right here in the U.S. of A
in the uk a person is SUPPOSED to be innocent until proven guilty. if the BPI are allowed to get away with this, then not only are they controlling the internet but also re-writting the uk laws. shame fergal sharkey cant get himself a proper job where he has to save and provide for his reitrement instead of relying on spreading lies and milking other real artists hard earned cash. he is an absolute useless, waste of space. the news article broadcast a few days ago was completely one sided and should not have been allowed to be publically announced without the other side of the argument being stated as well. also, why should an isp be put in the position of stopping the bpi from supposedly losing money, when it is going to cost the isp itself money through lost customers? use some common sense, sharkey. make music accessible to all at a fair price. that alone will reduce the so-called internet theft. if you insist of pursuing file sharers, at least have the decency to provide evidence along with the accusations. if i was to accuse someone of something they hadn’t done, i would be in court for slander and defamation of character. hope the bpi are perpared for when that happens.
The funny thing is, I use country based block lists (to block out the UK) but I’m still getting cease and desist letters from my UK isp.
So they are using companies outside the UK to decide what is and isn’t allowed in the UK ?!?! Why ISPs listen to these foreign insterests is beyond me.
Can the BPI only go after people downloading BPI affiliated music, or can they go after any kind of piracy?
I have been very, very curious since this story broke what the definition of an illegal act would be that would cause one of the three strikes. Now, I know! There is no legal definition. So now we know there is no known definition, just the honor system that the alleged whatever-you-did is true, and that this toothless this-is-not-a-law has no penalties. Reminds me when a debt collector started calling me non-stop last year, harassing me. I had no debts, but the collector was just trolling to see who would get scared, call back, and confess, I guess. They figure that the odds were in favor of calling any random number and getting someone with outstanding debts, so why not go for it? If you blanket the UK with these letters, someone will be doing something they think is illegal and stop doing it.
Troc Ster: If you block out the UK, how can you connect to you ISP?
@3 muuhgnu:
Please STFU. Your histrionics discredit those of us who can make logical arguments against this blatant abuse of power.
Corporations are greedy and unprincipled, but comparing them to Hitler just makes you look stupid.
@16 Troc Ster:
Unfortunately, all they have to do is pull out the “international copyright law” card. XP
They’re not Interpol, so they have no jurisdiction. But then again, they’re not ANY form of accredited police organization – and that hasn’t stopped them yet.
Speaking of spying, any remote IP sniffing tools out there where I can spy on the BPI traffic. See how they like it.
pink panther comments:
problem is as already been seen, if a person in UK is accused, doesn’t appear in court, that person is automatically found guilty and fined a horrendous amount. if a person goes to court, as the BPI gets away with not having to prove a person is guilty, the accused person has to prove he/she is not guilty, the fundamentals of UK law are now being totally dismissed. also, with being allowed to NOT produce evidence of how the information has been gathered to accuse a person and whether that information is 100% accurate, a person is automatically assumed to be guilty. the judges in the cases so far have no idea about file sharing, nor do they want to know. the ‘you have been accused, so you must be guilty’ is going back to the 16 century. the side with money will always win, simply because an ordinary person cant afford to hire a costly defence solicitor. the BPI etc rely on that more than anything else. bastards!!!
first, this is not law, it is an agreement between the media and isp companies under threat from the government that if they dont regulate themselves then the government will regulate for them
first part II, the problem is the BPI has been bitching to the government about illegal downloads and the ISP’s have been saying not our problem. ironically, the BPI is trying this 3 strikes route because they do not want the government to make laws. the european parliament has already voted not to criminalise petty filesharing and i heard the UK government minister responsible saying if they dont sort themselves out then the government will be forced to fix “broken and inoperable copyright” laws. the government will follow the directives of the european parliament, it is not bad news for filesharers
second, if you are falsely accused then you have full recourse to the law to seek remedy for the wrong done against you. somebody should co-ordinate and collect a bunch of people who have been wrongly accused and start a legal case against the BPI and the ISP. the court process will discover all about the methods employed by the BPI and will decide between right and wrong
second part II, the BPI do not want a court challenge over the legality of their operation because they will lose. but they think it will never happen because they characterise filesharers as low life ignorant thieves without the nonce to organise. the BPI are in for a big shock
enigmax great article dude ;-D
who is going to organise the campaign against?
http://www.h33t.com where filesharing is washing feet
@24 h33t:
Trouble is, as pink panther stated (more eloquently than I could, so I won’t rehash) – the rule of law is not the issue here. The issue is that the politicians signed off on a deal which gives BPI quasi-police powers to act in their own vested interest. Even if this is successfully challenged in court, any penalties they’re forced to pay will be a laughably-minuscule fraction of what they’ve already extorted through Davenport Lyons. And it’s a virtual certainty that if that happens, those same politicians will pass a law giving BPI (and the ISPs, as a decoy) retroactive immunity.
I have one observation to make on this.. if they decide to go through with this and one scenario could be for the ISPs to charge you a sum and pay the music industry a portion. But what happens if I pay my dues to ‘download’ and someone from another country downloads from me and doesn’t have to pay..hmmm!! Food for thought ;)
@ #6
I’m with enta (not on the list yet)and they are a great company to be with, it’s very transparent. I got my account through a reseller, but all my contacts/payments are direct with enta. Your given a personal page where you can check how much you’ve used on Downloads/uploads of all traffic. The allowances are very generous 30GB/mth peak & 300GB/mth off peak. I’m not a big user so never even get close to the limit.
UK is F**ked up :P
Who ever like internet and daily using Internet will never travel to UK.
UK = No freedom, they even check when you move your @ss, and really i don’t like such a country to watch moving of my @ss.
NO FREEDOM FOR UK RESIDENTS and it really SUCKS.
UK GOV = F U C K Y O U ! ! !
Dumb + A Banch of A-Holes
I dont know UK laws but here theres tons of regulations just on how to store IP adresses and other personal information, even more on what it can and cant be used for and how it was gathered and what notices are required to the person before storing their personal information etc etc etc…
Dont UK have any of that? Only the police have legal free hands handling IP adresses (after court orders..), only way to mass gather them would be out of the country in witch case it cant be used in country no mather what they do.
Am i high or am i high?
fine,
“3 strikes and you are out”
That is the BPI is out when they fuck it up 3 times.
And maybe it would be good to pull a “Brein” on the publicly known faces of the BPI.
That is, visiting them at their homes and talk with them politely once you got one of those letters from your ISP because of accusations by BPI.
The brainless Brein guys in NL showed us how intimidation is done, what works on Tracker admins will work on BPI shitheads too I guess!
here here no 30 eye for an eye
very nice that the music industry and not isp’s or police have the final word in it – what’s wrong with the UK – betetr how much did the industry pay?
very nice that the music industry and not isp’s or police have the final word in it – what’s wrong with the UK – better questeion: how much did the industry pay to become judges?
Surely they dont want to open up how they catch people, or then it would be easier to work around it? This point is contiuously made and no one ever seems to realise that they would be stupid to do it.
I, as your average evil file-sharing terrorist, actually look forward to all this happening. I don’t care if they want to be cnuts, or not, they will still fail miserably because they just don’t get it. :-]
*sits backs with a bucket of popcorn*
@34
There is a difference between posting your methods step by step for every human to see and allowing a panel of independent experts to scrutinize your system.
If anyone gets this, just point their ISP to the story about a printers IP getting a warning for downloading illegal material.
Typical crap from the music industry bigwigs. It’s time ISP’s stop bending to every wish of commercial organizations like the BPI and RIAA and stand up for their customers.
Excellent article, keep up the great work.
Keep downloading!!!!
Look, people, UK user here…….745 tracks downloaded in Phex today.
Feargal Sharkey, the one-time punk rebel now a member of the Establishment = wanker. The current publicity regarding p2p are threats. Keep sharing…….keep downloading. Don’t let the side down.
@19, I only block traffic for a certain port-range and that is to (or from) a uk address.
@21, but wouldn’t that involve some form of extradition treaty so that I could face (and defend with integrity) charges of copyright infringement in the country where I actually commited a civil offense ? As it stands now I do not break uk laws, or at least any evidence collected stands a very high chance of not being collected in the UK.
So, what can we all do about this?
I suspect that all of those people who say that there is no freedom, that politicians are corrupt, that there is nothing we can do about this, are secretly RIAA and MPAA plants. They are here to encourage defeatism among us, and to stop any potential for overt action to change the laws. So far, they are working, and everyone believes that there is nothing they can do, and everyone believes that the money that the RIAA and MPAA have wields all the power and that the common people cannot do anything about it, and all I can do is now sign.
I really don’t get what’s wrong with you people, believing those industry spies/plants. You shouldn’t be stupid like this and believe that the RIAA have greater power, and that there is nothing we can do. I mean, that’s just falling in to the RIAA and MPAA’s hands. Fatalism and defeatism like this can only work in favor of the RIAA and the MPAA. In the end, even if it shall be ineffectual, doing something is better than nothing.
If i get a letter from my isp/bpi whatever im going to notify them im leaving and tell them why, then move to another company doesnt matter if thier in on the deal too but i will notify the new company why i left my old one and should i recieve a letter from them i will leave them too so they will think again. everyone should follow suit.
gotta agree with 43..too much apathy. I we all got together and marched on Gordon Browns house, there would be little they could do. Also, those receiving letters, tell you isp to piss off, and take your custom elsewhere; I did that exact thing a couple years ago when pipex (whom i ‘used’ to use for all my clients) started shaping my traffic. I called them up, asked if they blocking BT, they said yes, I said MAC code pls, and fuckoff.
Vote with your wallets.
They can’t put the genie back in the bottle, so they threaten us with bullshit ‘evidence’.
Don’t listen to it, don’t stand for it.
I want one of these letters. So i can frame it and hang it on a wall. :)
Since this has come out ive downloaded over 20gb in music. I havnt got a letter yet :(
@42
“So, what can we all do about this?”
Simple. Crank up your torrent client to ludicrous speed. Up/download even more. They can be buried by sheer weight of numbers.
Ahoy, mateys. Show no fear and give it back to them twice as hard as they bring it.
Ramming speed!
At one time long ago, I always took a defensive posture towards the industry and their whores such as the RIAA, MPAA, IFPI, BPI, and others. But no more.
There’s blood in the water. You can smell the fear and desperation as these weasels struggle desperately to maintain their dying empire. Unethical politicians have greedily sold out their constituents to an evil cabal of corporate jackals who fight bitterly to hold on to a business model that is in it’s death throes. The suits know their time is short and they see their excessive lifestyle slipping away more and more on a daily basis.
The balance of power has shifted, control is no longer in the hands of a corrupt and greedy few, but in the hands of millions of free people who continue to prove it every day.
And to an industry that is rotten to it’s core, I say this.
No matter how much you threaten, coerce, sue, spy on, or harass, NOT ONE PENNY IN TRIBUTE WILL I EVER PAY TO YOU OR YOUR GOONS.
You may be slowly dying, but I will continue to do what I can to hasten that day along. The party, the free ride, and your time are over.
In the UK downloading is 100% legal.
Only uploading or ’sharing’ supposedly violates UK copyright law under the dubious ‘makeing available’ accusation.
Only uploading.
So it is 100% legal to download anything copyright just as it ok to buy a dodgy dvd or borrow a book from a friend.
As the current ‘more valuable than freedom’ Major Label crap is already available worldwide no-one
need upload or share.
Leech access only – that is what the UK gov is promoting.
Bittorrent as it shares by default will be illegal unless in leech mode only.
The BPI is not suing UK citizens not because the BPI is decent but because all of the spurious arguments tried in the USA have unravelled and folk are getting awarded damages.
However as the article suggests the standard of evidence is totally questionable.
Academics recently mocked the US evidence by having the MPAA send letters to printers.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/06/05/entertainment-indust-1.html
The public domain is a valuable artistic resource and Feargul Sharkey does the musicians of today no favours by advocating copyright extensions.
Mashup, mix and remix is the future present of music Feargul, you would be well to remember That the greatest enemy of the artist is obscurity not fans who will risk their online freedom to share their love of music.
Copyright is blocking the free exchange of human culture and knowledge and the enrichment of us all.
In the digital time of abundance any enterprise predicated on artificial scarcity and exclusion is doomed.
Perhaps if the ‘aging session musicians’ Feargul seeks to deprive the common wealth for had kept their own money like the KLF then we wouldn’t be trying to criminalise the best human impulse to share and enjoy.
Pretty soon it will be illegal to read a magazine in a dentist’s office. I guess they shouldn’t be “shared” either? This is getting so stupid. Kid Rock is stupid with his little anti file sharing commercial too. Comparing stealing a car to file “sharing”.
I say we plan a file-sharing march. We must march to the Parliament and make ourselves heard. We must march to the Parliament and make ourselves heard.
We must march to the Parliament and make ourselves heard.
Sounds like the “BPI” is a Big Pain In the bum! I am surprised someone just hasn’t “eliminated” them yet if you know what I mean.
JT
http://www.FireMe.To/udi
With TorrentPrivacy we encrypt your traffic
TorrentPrivacy creates secure encrypted tunnel via
SSH protocol and all your Bittorrent traffic going
through this tunnel can’t be decrypted by others.
With TorrentPrivacy your IP is concealed
Using TorrentPrivacy you’re seen as the user from Holland
this is where our servers are. Nobody will be able to
identify your real IP. We do not save logs either
anybody tried this????
why the hell am I still living in the UK?
I heard that Invite Trader is going to issue invites to its power users.
anyone else heard any new on this?
The problem is not whether a weak government is manipulated by an obsolete record music industry that is dying…
The REAL problem is if the citizens (that are the majority) will accept SUBMISSIVELY this or not.
One recourse to the plan as outlined above it to look into how any alleged filesharers ip’s where obtained as its quite likely any IP logging is illegal under european and UK data protection laws, this is the first step of any counter attack, complain to the police as data gathering of this sort is a criminal offence.
Their current system of logging is to merely log addresses in swarms and in other p2p networks simply to log the ip addresses of search query results, no mystery and no effort for them, but as many p2p systems use a two tiered indexing system its quite likely the node they believe has the files may well not have them.
Common sense is the order of the day, lets stick to our guns and be ready to repel boarders :)
@57
” The problem is not whether a weak government is manipulated by an obsolete record music industry that is dying…
The REAL problem is if the citizens (that are the majority) will accept SUBMISSIVELY this or not.”
Agreed. So far, I have seen no huge demonstrations against this. Sure people say that protests and all that are ineffective. But effect is not the purpose of protests – it is to show that there are people out there who are willing to spend effort to change things. In all the big political movements, there have been demonstrations and rallies. Therefore, protests are a logical first step.
what you *can* do is use an encrypted VPN service. you connect to VPN ISP via encrypted line.
you appear to the outside world as if you came from the VPN provider.
there are many. some in Sweden (relakks.com) some in Switzerland (swissvpn.net i think). just google VPN and filter out “business”.
yes, you have to pay. about $5. but it means that the BPI and the US people cannot get your IP. sure they could trace back from their logs of IPs on torrents back to the VPN provider and maybe they would reveal who had the IP at that time (ie you) but they’re not going to do that , plus it’d be a real pain plus a different juristiction.
BPI most likely to ignore any foreign IPs or VPN IPs and move on to the next one.
but WHY should we have to use VPN? why not raise a flat levy on all torrent site users (share of their advertising) plus levy on the ISPs that offer bittorrent deals (obvisously thats what they are) and eveyrones happy. well artists and producers are happy. suits can go jump! they’re dead anyway!
@57
Indeed, the real issue we should be dealing with is not “what is the government doing” but rather “what should WE be doing.” I mean, there is really no point in endlessly talking about what the government is doing – we are not the government. What is more relevant to our interests is what WE should be doing. Not them. WE are the ones who have the responsibility to take action.
Before we criticize others like the government for their faults and inability to take proper actions, we must first fix our own faults, and start to take proper actions. Before we do all this criticism of government, and before we demand that government do the right things, we must first do the right things ourselves, and start to take action in an active grassroots movement, rather than being apathetic.
The fact is that we must have solidarity. The problem is not that people are using insecure methods of file-sharing. The problem is not that people are using inferior file-sharing methods. The problem is that people are being persecuted for those methods of file-sharing. We should have sympathy for all people who were persecuted for file-sharing. Yes, they may have done something that can more easily be caught, but it does not make them any less of a victim of the current persecutions of file-sharing.
Funny how UK claims to be the best, BUT alas in the US we really don’t deal with this shit. Some throttling bullshit from comcast but no legal action, whatsoever.
Land of the free, home of the brave. Dont forget it.
I have set up an anonymous discussion board for the purposes of discussing what kinds of grassroots action can be planned. There is no registration required, and posting a comment there is just like posting a comment on this blog.
Here it is:
http://www.28chan.org/fs/
antipiracy@bpi.co.uk
Send in your views people.
And people say American ISPs sucks.
@64
A mailing address as well would be good.
u can’t blame a bought & paid for govt, altho ud think theyd hav more sense than to assign the job of catching petty infringers to a gang of thugs. Want more proof that the world is going to hell?
@67
We should blame the people for being apathetic. Why aren’t there massive protests against this? Why aren’t people going out and taking action?
@62, that’s why all the torrent sites want to host in the US, right buddy? And all those companies that want to sue their own customers, they’re not based in the US. You’re delusional. This will happen in the “free” USA next if it’s not stopped now. These criminals will go as far as we allow them and will respect no borders.
have check the head of bpi out
http://www.yoosk.com/celebrity/293/Matt_Phillips.aspx
This should hardly come as a surprise to anyone. Since when is the UK known for it’s fair and impartial laws, especially regarding privacy and the like.
IMO, if people really want to send a message, they need to show that they are interested in legal alternatives. How many Britons illegally downloaded Dr Who via bit torrent, and how many watched it (or even legally downloaded it!!!) via iPlayer? I know that this article is about downloading music, but it’s the same principle. If you really want to enact change, you need to be willing to make some changes yourself. Download music that’s freely given (i.e., music on a Creative Commons copyright), and legally purchase the commercial music that you want. Otherwise it kind of looks like people just wanting free stuff.
I’d love to get one of these letters from BPI, I’d hang it on my wall, but if the government starts taking action against a file-sharer who can stand up in court and honestly say that the music he/she downloaded is all legal on the p2p network, it would go a long way in knocking back the BPI (and the MPAA, RIAA, etc).
Just my 2¢.
Regarding the BPI wanting UK ISP’s to cut off, after 3 strikes, the estimated 6 million customers illegally downloading music. I read somewhere that the BPI estimates that they are ‘loosing’ over a billion in annual sales due to this practice. I did some quick calculations and assuming that these 6 million customers are paying around £30 pm for their b/b service, this comes to a loss of over a billion pounds annually to the ISP’s. The BPI is in effect asking UK ISP’s to take this loss instead of them. Given that the 6 million b/b down loaders are actual paying customers, as opposed to a notional similar loss to the BPI from people who might have bought music, this is a ludicrous suggestion for them to make.
I live in the UK and just changed ISP from Virgin Media to Sky. I left Virgin due to their throttling policy and there willingness to buddy up to the BPI.
Now Sky follows suite.
I am f***ing livid.
Can anyone recommend an ISP that doesn’t bend to big corporations. Doesn’t aggressively manage traffic, particularly limiting torrents (i use netlabels, open source trackers and other legal sources of torrents a lot) and possibly has plans to use the IPv6 protocol some time this century?
” Funny how UK claims to be the best, BUT alas in the US we really don’t deal with this shit. Some throttling bullshit from comcast but no legal action, whatsoever.
Land of the free, home of the brave. Dont forget it.”
Seriously, educate yourself before you post, there have been thousands upon thousands of lawsuits in the US.
All they are doing here is sending out letters in the hope people will stop, theres no law suits, no 3 strikes rule, nothing.
If I get one, I will direct my ISP to the story of a printer getting one of theses notices.
Wonder if anybody here is interested in sharing files amongst ourselves (our mates can join in too) by using 2Peer? Click the link to find out more.
http://2peer.com/
Uk here,
The problem is not that we are not doing anything about it, the problem is WE DO NOT WANT THIS GOVERNMENT”.”
Labour General Election, WE WANT YOU OUT NOW. YOU HAVE pi$$eD off most of the UK populace.
Shut the Door on ya way out.
I thought the same, they are going to piss off 6m people, for the 1st time ever I will vote in the next election.
Not for Labour or the tories because they have both gone against file sharing but for the Lib Dems because they are the only ones who havent spoken out against it.
“Land of the free, home of the brave. Dont forget it.”
Simply… No.
What other country has over two million people in jail?
The real problem is the UK goverment who supported this action and forced it on the ISPs.
This wouldn’t be a problem if Labour hadn’t become so corrupt that there probably getting paid by the BPI to take there side.
An extract from the BPI website…
http://www.bpi.co.uk/index.asp?Page=news/apu/news_content_file_882.shtml
“The evidence collection process is robust: the technique has stood up to High Court scrutiny on numerous occasions, and similar evidence has been used to bring more than 50,000 legal cases against the users themselves across Europe. Not one of those cases has recorded a mistaken ID, or been successfully contested.”
I think we need a new campaign to demand the BPI for full technical document on how they ‘record’ IPs.
For all we know there using GNU software and breaking the agreement.
RE: The 3 strikes law.
If all ISP’s agree to it, that is like a monopoly isn’t it?
My 2c:
Apply for legal aid from Europe or something or band together and there must be a way of getting your MEP or whoever to refer it to Europe’s Anti Monopooly Commisson, ie there is supposed to be a variety of services etc.
some right wankers on this thread
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=853479
“49 Jul 27, 2008 at 03:22 by bob
In the UK downloading is 100% legal.
Only uploading or ’sharing’ supposedly violates UK copyright law under the dubious ‘makeing available’ accusation.
Only uploading.
So it is 100% legal to download anything copyright just as it ok to buy a dodgy dvd or borrow a book from a friend.
As the current ‘more valuable than freedom’ Major Label crap is already available worldwide no-one
need upload or share.
Leech access only – that is what the UK gov is promoting.”
What your saying bob is sort of true DOWNLOADING IS LEGAL IN THE UK (i just though i’d highlight that incase anyone missed it). Unless its somthing to do with terrorism or kiddie porn.
“Bittorrent as it shares by default will be illegal unless in leech mode only.”
I honestly dont think thats true though as bittorrent underlaw isnt illegal itself. Seriously the goverment would have to litterally ban the bittorrent protcal (which will never happen) before what your saying would become true. As it takes a certain level of knowledge to configure bittorrent and they would have to prove you have that knowledge in the first place, do you get what i’m saying.
” 72 Jul 27, 2008 at 13:18 by k3ito
I live in the UK and just changed ISP from Virgin Media to Sky. I left Virgin due to their throttling policy and there willingness to buddy up to the BPI.
Now Sky follows suite.
I am f***ing livid.”
ATM O2 broadband are the best ISP in the UK IMO, honestly im paying 11.99 line rental to BT then £5 for unlimted phone calls to BT and then £10 for a 16MB unlimited connection to O2 with no traffic shaping or limits. So it works out at £27 a month for a shit hot 16MB connection with free landline calls ontop, you cant get bette than that fella ;-) .
Let us all share here….
http://2peer.com/
Anybody interested in sharing their MP3s, contact me at the following address
retroradio64@hotmail.com
Subject your email “FILE SHARE”
No, the ISPs acting in this way isn’t technically a monopoly, but it’s anti-competitive behavior. It seems similar to what the music and movie companies due when they sue their listeners and viewers. They’re supposedly competitors, but effectively act as a joint entity when suing their customers. Somehow this is allowed to stand. Seems companies get around the restrictions on monopolies by just becoming sneaky cartels instead.
I agree that the defeatists and pessimists could be people from the music/movie industries trying to make people disempower themselves. Our views must be spread to the masses through any and all means possible.
@85
Well, I think that the best way to spread our views to the masses is first to discuss how we can do this. Obviously the TorrentFreak blog is not the best place to do this. I think that an anonymous message board would be best, because it is most easy to discuss how people can plan to do things in real-life. I have this message board here:
http://www.28chan.org/fs/
And it can easily be used to discuss principles and means of action.
@85
Well, it’s obvious that the industry watches TorrentFreak as much, if not more, than we do.
In the UK and mostly get free music from http://www.jamendo.com, used to get previews of music before buying the CD’s but risk being called a criminal by the BPI.
Since not going to be easy to preview, will have to take the safe step of not buying any more CD’s
Luckily am in a small ISP :)
The problem is not so much getting a letter from your isp. The problem is not so much that the bpi ability to bore you with legal mumbo jumbo in an attempt to scare you. The problem is not apathy. The problem is most deffinately that the attitude of the majority of non filesharing public is that infringing copyright is illegal. To them you are scum. To them you are a thief. To them there is no justification to downloading shit for free. The problem is also that they are the majority. As long as they feel like agreements like this do not affect them they couldnt give a shit. They will tell you they do not care and it is you who is in the wrong. As long as that remains the caes, no ammount of bitching by the p2p community is going to change anything. You are the minority.
Solution? Kill your neighbor.
what the fu[k is UP with UK these days.l mean it Really is going to shit quicker than l can keep up !
Someone,anyone, SORT IT OUT FOR F SAKE
It really is becoming ridiculous now.
not just regarding this article but every other area in politics.
roads,cameras,cctv,drinking,smoking,workplaces,
everything is a fkin joke here.
god where are the brains gone !
someone PLEASE get some COMMONSENSE
BACK HERE ,WE TRULY NEED IT.
And those limey Brit police have extended Alan Ellis’s bail YET AGAIN! Now September 10th… WTF are they trying to do?
I thought the US was bad with the RIAA/MPAA, but man, the UK seems to be turning into a corporate controlled police state.
You know what else beggars belief? The way alll these Governments are just rolling over and having their tummies tickled by these Industries. Has the world gone completely insane? I mean, Governments are elected or should be elected for the majority of the people- NOT big business! Just how craven are these people!?!
Hopefully the EU will do the right thing and stop the 3 strikes rule as a first step.
You know, I seen on the news the other day that some self employed plumber sitting in his van smoking a cig was handed a fine by the local council for smoking in his workplace.
This is the new Great Britian!!
Okay, so lets say they end up charging a £30 fee to anyone with a computer and an internet connection. This fee is then collected by the government and that goes to the music industry. Well then what about all the software companies (think of all the people who download Adobe products), the film industry and the companies that produce TV shows. Will we get taxed £30 for each frigging industry?
What if I haven’t been downloading music at all, but just films and software?
Besides, what about people who download via direct HTTP methods such as Rapidshare and Megaupload? Those websites are not first and foremost illegal file sharing websites, but are frequently abused for this purpose. Will uses of theses sites get penalized also?
I don’t think the government is propping up a failing industry. Artists still manage to make multi millions, so why should they need even more cash just because they’re struggling to pay for their fourth house?
Well, these laws are only against Brit uploaders. As long as they dont go as far as persecuting every downloader (will probably happen in the near future seeing as how things are going now…), then just dont upload when you are in UK. But does that also count seeders (uploader but not really “the” uploader)? O.o
Besides, UK isnt even 100mbps yet (even London which is the capital). It isnt much of a big loss to the seeding community…but nonetheless, still a loss
Feck ‘em! If I get a letter, it’s going straight back with a request for proof detailing exactly what I took and how I infringe music copyright!
I don’t rip music or movies, might help myself to a few TV shows and radio shows, but never commercial music.
Nah, you run torrent traffic you’re gonna get a letter, that’s all it will consist of! Well lets start pulling down Linux distros non-stop and see what they come up with!!!
We need to fight these Internet police, Europewide camp[aigns are needed. Well done to Germany, if only we in Britain would take a similar line. :(
The fact is SIX AND A HALF MILLION people do it here!?!
How the hell are they going to be able to put that many people through the Court system!?! It’ll take decades at least!
ROFL @ 96 – “If I get a letter, it’s going straight back with a request for proof detailing exactly what I took and how I infringe music copyright!” now that is a good attitude lol. I might follow suit if I get a letter. Besides, I download using Rapidshare, so not sure if I will or not.
@91, you’re right. I’m not even a Brit but I’m disgusted with what’s going on over there. How ironic that the Labour party, which everyone was so ecstatic over when they came to power in the 90s, apparently thought 1984 was something to mold a country after. They really need to have their asses thrown out immediately, they are a total disgrace.
What a moron Annika of Tele2 is: “It would entail us having to spy on our customers.”
Wow. Imagine that. Did the IDIOT forget about the new law that allows the Swedish government to do just that? She’s making it sound like spying on customers and infringing on their privacy would never happen in Sweden.
Hello?
Can we bank on the EU to save us? I don’t think Brown is up to it!
My sister got a letter today from a solicitor saying she had to pay a £500 fine for downloading a file through bitcomet. I havent seen the letter but she says it gives the date from last year when the file was downloaded. Im going to ask her to send me a copy so i can look into it more.
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