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PayPal, IFPI and Police Collaborate To Strangle Pirate Music Sites

According to an announcement by IFPI, online payment provider PayPal has agreed to help strangle the finances of sites offering unauthorized music. While it appears that the initial targets are Russian and Ukrainian MP3 services, the deal will also be of concern to torrent sites that rely on PayPal to accept site donations.

In March this year IFPI announced that they had reached agreement with MasterCard, Visa and the City of London Police to develop cooperation against sites selling unauthorized music. Under the deal, IFPI investigators hand evidence of infringement to the police who proceed to engage the payment processors.

“Once the police have verified the evidence, they notify MasterCard and Visa who require the acquiring bank providing the retailer with payment services to produce evidence of appropriate licenses to sell music or cease providing those services to the retailer,” IFPI explained.

It’s suggested by IFPI that the main targets of the action are Russian ‘AllofMP3′-style clones, sites that often operate legally under domestic legislation much to the disappointment of the international music industry.

However, the engagement of a new and powerful ally this week has the potential to affect many ‘private’ members-only BitTorrent sites, wherever they may be.

While the March announcement from MasterCard and Visa would have been of little concern to the majority of torrent sites, the news that online payment processor PayPal is now getting on board will be viewed very differently and will sound a cautionary warning for the future.

Admittedly the relationships between PayPal and torrent sites don’t always run smoothly (accounts and funds are often frozen or completely lost), but nevertheless PayPal remains the long-standing donation service of choice for dozens, maybe hundreds, of torrent sites. Very often donations are their only source of revenue.

While in connection with this scheme IFPI specifically refer to the ‘sale’ of illicit music (something which the vast majority of torrent sites don’t directly engage in), previous anti-piracy cases have framed torrent site user donations as “subscriptions” or “paid memberships.” To the UK police, who have already been happy to arrest the admins of several torrent and other file-sharing sites, the difference may be academic.

“Today’s announcement shows that PayPal is very serious about fighting music piracy,” said Carl Scheible, PayPal UK’s managing director.

“We’ve always banned PayPal’s use for the sale of content that infringes copyright, and the new system will make life even harder for illegal operators. Our partnership with the music industry helps rights holders make money from their own content while stopping the pirates in their tracks.”

As highlighted in our earlier article, it is perfectly possible to run a few-hundred-thousand-peer private tracker for a fairly modest monthly outlay but with rising costs associated with topsite access (for obtaining new content quickly) and site-run seedboxes, outlay can begin to spiral out of control.

If the music industry does indeed pressure PayPal to take action against torrent site donations as well as sites directly selling unauthorized music, administrators will be forced to reconsider their positions. Some will undoubtedly call it a day.

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  • http://twitter.com/unusedcrayon Bear

    I can guarantee people we just switch service from paypal, to another service that does the same thing. I’m hoping most will use BitCoin.

    • Zzzz

      I wouldn’t use Bitcon if it were the last bogus currency Ponzi scheme on the planet.

      • Jeff Bekcer

        you should probably look at both sides and not just the ones wearing tinfoil.

        • Zzzz

          Typical fanboy responce.
          If you can’t come up with anything better than trying to belittle people who can see through this farse than no wonder you fall for the con, enjoy losing your investment into this pretend money.

          You do know the price crashed overnight recently don’t you?

        • Zzzz

          PS, Do you know why it crashed.
          the “currency” collapsed because someone tried to sell a few thousand dollards worth of Bitcons at once.
          If you think something that unstable is capable of being used as a viable currency then you are truly deluded.

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          Fanboy response because he’s not unilaterally critical?

          That’s a rather one-sided argument. If China dumps it’s stock in US bonds the dollar drops into the basement as well. And?

          Whether cryptocurrency will succeed or not at all depends entirely on how big a user base it gets.

        • Anonymous

          If US Senators hate on bitcoin, you know it has to be good.

      • http://codeflow.org/ Florian Bösch

        Enjoy being blocked and harassed by paypal and visa then.

      • Food

        So what do you use instead of the ponzi that is fiat currency?

        • http://codeflow.org/ Florian Bösch

          Fiat currency alone isn’t enough, it’ll has to fit trough the interwebtubes too…

      • Bill

        Well, many coffee and gift shops in Europe and now even New York accept bitcoins, so maybe you should try it before you knock it wiseguy

        • Chubaca

          Map or didn’t happen

    • brudda

      Paypal is Satan.

  • Malcolm Reynolds

    More proof that the people behind paypal are complete and utter puppets of well, anyone. They block wikileaks and Bradley Mannings defence fund, cough cough US GOVERNMENT. Now they are blocking sites like this – time to fuck off to alert pay me thinks

    • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

      That. It’s time we move away from PayPal. That’s what we get when the biggest payment processors in the world are in a rogue nazi State.

    • http://www.facebook.com/newton.antony Newton Antony

      ummm EVERY major US company bends backwards to appease its own governing government, not a big surprise there, but how scam sites like ebook and file lockers scam millions LEGALLY thru paypals ” no digital returns ever” policy ; is a reason to be HEAVILY concerned, just my 2 cents.

  • Hans

    Hardly news. PayPal is doing this for years already. Anyway good to know “Russian ‘AllofMP3?-style clones, sites that often operate legally under domestic legislation”

    • Anonymous

      I noticed that too. The “operate legally under domestic legislation” part. Yet again, the RIAA and groups associated with them can’t play by the rules. It’s legal by the country’s laws, so they go around and try and stop them anyway they can. In this case, going to PayPal and striking a deal. And PayPal, as someone else already stated, is notorious for doing just such things. (Bradley Manning/Wikileaks donation blocking)

      I used to use PayPal a lot. I am a major comic collector and it helps me make payments, however, I quit using it when they did what they did with Manning and Wikileaks. I never did donate to them, but if I wanted to that’s my prerogative and right. You might not like what they did/are doing, but that doesn’t give you (PayPal) the right to say I can’t donate and to prevent me from doing so. From that point on, I’ve stuck with paying for things online with bank cards (as pain in the a$$ as my bank makes that for me).

      • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

        Considering there was no legal issue in donating for the said cases you are right. I mean, if I get $1000 and give Manning for his defense will it be illegal? NO! But that’s about politics. Wikileaks is about politics. MAFIAA has become politics. We should fear anything from the US. Including Google, Twitter, Facebook. Everything.

        TF: could we get an article with non-US (non-censorship) alternatives for Paypal?

  • Geist111

    Hello, Bitcoin.

    • Ven

      A digital-only currency will fail in the online world. Most of the folks here will point out that data is worthless once distributed, which means 99% of people have nothing to offer in exchange for this currency.

      • Scary Devil Monastery

        Not necessarily, for several reasons.

        1) You can make the same argument for ordinary dollars on a debit card. Yet for some weird reason the actual transaction keeps on being used. The reason for this is because dollars aren’t infinitely reproducible and can be exchangd for services or goods.

        2) Bitcoin isn’t infinitely reproducible and in fact can be exchanged for other currencies at a number of sites.

        3) If Bitcoin had been mere “data” your argument would be correct. It’s not. What Bitcoin actually measures is transactions, subject to strict rules identical to the ones followed by a VISA debit transaction. Something a mere copy creating two clones of information array “A” could never do.

        And mp3 file or any form of static data is decidedly worthless as a currency. Cryptocurrency is not for the same reason a credit card transaction isn’t either.

  • http://profiles.google.com/artfulldragon TL Dragon

    lol @ paypal trying to act like anything other than the shady ass crooks they are.

    • Ugly American

      Exactly – PonziPal is a disgrace.

  • 9001

    Somebody needs to make a pirate-friendly donation service. I know there’s BitCoins, but they’re hard to convert to actual cash, not many sites or services accept. We need a service similar to PayPal that won’t disconnect suspected torrent-site owners, as they’re TECHNICALLY acting legally.

    • FuzzyDuck

      The problem is, we can’t rely on corporations to stand up for our rights, when put under government pressure or threatened with lawsuits, they’ll do what’s in *their* best interest not ours.

      The only payment method resistant to government and legal pressure is Bitcoin. It may be a bit more difficult to exchange, but it’s not that hard once you find your way. Like any new payment system, more sites need to start accepting it for it to gain hold, but it looks like some sites soon won’t have any alternative…

      • Anonymous

        “…it looks like some sites soon won’t have any alternative…”

        Awesome – PayPal loses business and makes BitCoin popular by trying to suck up to IFPI. Win/Win

    • Anonymous

      Eeeh, flattr? Flattr is a micropayment system. http://flattr.com/

      Flattr is a project started by Peter Sunde and Linus Olsson (read piratebay).
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flattr

      • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

        THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully bt sites will start adopting.

  • http://tinyurl.com/niceskirt-srsly w3ts1ut

    Regarding some previous comments, like 99.9999% of the private trackers I’m in will most certainly not be using BitCoin as a replacement for $ donations. An alternative to both BTC as well as Paypal is required by most file sharing sites.

  • http://tinyurl.com/niceskirt-srsly w3ts1ut

    Regarding some previous comments, like 99.9999% of the private trackers I’m in will most certainly not be using BitCoin as a replacement for $ donations. An alternative to both BTC as well as Paypal is required by most file sharing sites.

  • Djferrick

    moneybookers ?

  • Guest

    maybe follow what.cd’s lead and use flattr having been setup by one of the pirate bay’s founders I’m sure he won’t mind and could not care less where the money going through his payment system is going.

  • http://otester.myopenid.com/ PiRat

    So many torrent sites rely on PayPal, they can move to another provider.

    I know of a few ‘AllofMP3?-style clones that don’t use PayPal.

  • Mike

    There is other payment gateways so this is pointless they need them all on board if it is to work. Some with all sorts of ways to side step the laws in the same way bankers side step the laws.

    Not to mention it is perfectly legal for a torrent site to ask people to donate to another site, and you can think up many ways to launder the money and return it clean to site admins. With the mess of the tax systems outside western Europe this is not even going to be that difficult to avoid tax on either.

    One more stupid effort from the desperate establishment to control the masses when they should be fixing more serious problems like how banks don’t have enough money to cover all they owe. Fractional banking is a more serious issue then a few young people on torrent sites.

    WTF have the UK police got to do with it their jurisdiction is UK ONLY. Pointless.

    • Guest

      Best comment, sir.

    • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

      Hats off, sir. But these ‘alternatives’ shouldn’t be needed if the Govts weren’t that corrupt and the corporations didn’t run the Govts.

  • Elisa ? Knockout™

    lol paypal is full of b.s. that’s all i have to say ;P

  • FuzzyDuck

    Can you say BITCOIN?

  • Jay

    Paypal a totally online financial origination might be very careful in what they are doing.

    Some of these sites are run by organised crime and they are the ones with access to the massive bot nets out there.

    If paypal gets DOSSed for a few months watch them abandon there new friends here.

    Something to keep an eye on in the future.

    • Anonymous

      Exactly. When they pulled the “you can’t donate to Wikileaks or Manning” stunt awhile back, they got hit for that. So did Mastercard and Visa if memory serves me correctly. But, I think it’s obvious that PayPal bends to the will of the U.S. government. And the U.S. government bends to the will of RIAA/MPAA interest. So it’s not surprising this has happened.

  • Anonymous

    lol, man they just dont know when to quit do they? Amazing.

    http://www.net-privacy.us.tc

    • bhd

      You just dont know when to quit. Amazing.

  • Krow

    This just sounds like they are telling you what you’re allowed to spend your money on…

  • Guest107

    Meh. Tribler is fully distributed right now. No need for centralised anything, no need to pay anyone.

    • Elisa ? Knockout™

      I just joined same name as here lol i think i likie :)

  • Lex

    “Our partnership with the music industry helps rights holders make money from their own content while stopping the pirates in their tracks.”

    Wait, what? Just because rights holders own the content doesn’t mean it’s their own content….

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  • anon

    Ipredator is using AlertPay I think, looks like these site will have to swtich to that soon.

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  • TSO

    Paypal has ALWAYS been a company to avoid wherever possible. US regulation (or lack of) that governs Paypal is inherently corrupt.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Quite true….. just look at the various “Paypal Sucks!” websites to espouse why I would never use the bastards and why they should be taken to task under American and international law.

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  • guest

    There are always systems like UCASH that can be used

  • Anonymous

    Amazing, they jsut dont know when to quit do they? Scary.

    http://www.net-privacy.us.tc

  • Predator

    That why I am no longer using Paypal.

    Paypal is fucked so is eBay. The wheels of history have turn.

    They deserve this.

    Welcome Bitcoin!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Evans/549591812 Tom Evans

      someone’s angry

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  • http://www.jveweb.net/en/ jvalenciae

    As nice as Bitcoin is, it is difficult to turn it into actual food, at least in some places. And don’t get me wrong, I like it, I have turn it into food and other expenses, it was just a little problematic.

    I seldom use paypal nowadays, only to receive an occasional payment, and I try to don’t use it to make payments anymore, not to mention that they disabled the donation button for my country.

    We really need an alternative to paypal that doesn’t involve having to contact traders to get some local expendable currency out of it. Hopefully a European based one. Also Flattr is nice now that they allow direct donations, I haven’t get enough money there to test a withdrawal tho, and the little I got there so far went back to my account balance.

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  • Predator

    “As nice as Bitcoin is, it is difficult to turn it into actual food,”

    No, it is not hard. just convert your bitcoin back into dollars or another currency of your choice and voila!

    • Thehack3r

      True, but clients wont actually use Bitcoins untill they come across a website that uses it, so they will be clueless on how to use it. From the sellers point of view, it’s easy to setup, but on the buyers, might be hard to get people interested in using this payment method. I get 3-8 donations daily from PayPal (now I’m disabling after reading this) but I also use Bitcoin, I get 1-2 donations monthly from that! :(

    • Scary Devil Monastery

      Part of that problem is you need the necessary infrastructure. I’m reminded of the initial problems using plastic cards to pay your bills and how hard it was to actually find anyone accepting them early on.

      Ten years down the line or twenty I’d say it would be extremely odd if some form of cryptocurrency wasn’t becoming widely accepted, given the incentives it carries to be able to create transactions untraceable by any government.

      But that’s then. Right here and now cryptocurrencies are open beta the same way VISA was way back when.

  • Busterbrown7077

    Ya, this maybe a N00B question but one that doesn’t seem to have been taken seriously by authorities for too long. How is profiting from a download site any different than selling your physical collection on Ebay (or even single mp3 downloads on Amazon)? Seems to me that someone, somewhere bought the damn music in the first place and uploaded it. Thats why its called Sharing.

    So, I’m sure not but i’ll posit anyway, will Paypal refuse to take payments for copyrighted material resold on the ebay?

    • Friend of the People

      Well, the basic idea is that copyright does exactly what the name entitles; it gives the creating artist or researcher the right to dictate who can and can’t make copies of their material. Copyrighted physical goods, like a cd resold on ebay, aren’t affected by this because no new copy is produced. However, for digital transactions, a new copy is produced. Essentially, if you got a copy from ebay, that means someone either sold or gave you an existing copy, but for the digital realm, the copy you received is entirely new and is produced without the consent of the artist. Good question though. Hope the explanation helped.

      I would now like to offer a thought that has crossed my mind before but has never been expressed. I’d like to get an opinion on this.

      By the above definition, filesharing isn’t really “sharing”, because sharing requires the joint use or temporary/permanent giving up of something to benefit someone else, while filesharing requires no loss. It can still be a good thing, but it doesn’t count as filesharing.

      • Anonymous

        A very interesting comment FotP. It actually made me think about a feature I have on my Nook Color. The “Lend Me” feature. Barnes and Noble lets me lend book to friends. Originally it was a lend one time only and for two weeks limit. But after rooting my NC and then restoring the stock experience I saw that it had changed and it says something like “lend as permitted by the publisher”. Looking into it more, I’m not sure if the original limit is in place anymore. Because “as permitted” means as permitted. Might be a lend one time type thing or lend out 5 times. Loan it for 3 days or loan it for a month. (I’m just explaining the feature in case you aren’t aware of it. Getting to the actual point here though.) So anyway, when you lend it though, you literally lend it out. As if I had a physical copy of the book and you said lend it to me and I did, I’d be without it. Not able to read my copy. Which this reproduces. You lend it and you no longer have access while it’s being borrowed by a friend. So I guess, the “Lend Me” feature as I described is sharing. In the strictest sense of the word and definition (which you mentioned above).

        File sharing is not sharing in the strict definition of the word by the definition you gave. But in a way it is still sharing. Lending/giving something you have to others.

        “but for the digital realm, the copy you received is entirely new and is produced without the consent of the artist.”

        I’m not sure if I’m just interpreting that part wrong or something, feel free to correct me, but what do you mean by that? By “the copy” are you referring to say a copy that’s being file shared or “pirated” (whichever your preferred word may be)? Or a copy in general?

        I ask because, there’s a few bands I like and they email fans regularly when they release a new album. Just letting them know it’s out, it can be purchased online or in-store, etc. And the option I usually go for in such cases is online. Because if I purchase online I get a plethora of extras. I pay for a physical copy of the album (on vinyl or compact disc) to be delivered to me through the mail on/immediately after the release date. But for purchasing it online, I receive a code and link to download a digital copy (usually a few days before the official physical album release). (Which is the part that threw me off in what I quoted.) The online digital copy is being produced and released with consent of the artist.

        Like I said that threw me off. Not sure what you meant by “the copy”. I just wanted to clarify that some copies are being released with artists permissions.

        • Friend of the People

          That first paragraph is an interesting example. I hadn’t heard of that before, but that sounds to be totally in line with what I was saying. In a slightly related matter, I have heard debate of whether or not libraries should be able to host digital databases on the internet for materials still under copyright, and if they are able to, what limits should be imposed on the databases.

          I still think filesharing can be a good thing (even though, to be completely honest, I am against piracy in the form it currently holds), but I still don’t think it actually qualifies as sharing. That’s not meant to be a mark against it; I just don’t think it meets the definition. Charitable production perhaps, although that doesn’t have quite the same ring to it. For the purposes of everyday life, I suppose sharing is a fair enough word.

          As for that quote, you actually have hit on the central point that I was trying to make; it all relies on the consent of the artist. If an artist chooses to put their work up on bittorrent for anyone to have, then any copies made are made with their consent. The same thing goes for download codes and other methods of digital distribution. Does that clear up my meaning?

        • Anonymous

          Well, I love reading and I try and keep up with what’s going on in the world of literature. Technology wise and books and authors and whatnot. Barnes and Noble was the first to roll out that feature. I believe Amazon has done it as well. Not sure what it’s called under Amazon though. Worth looking into if you have any ebooks you’d like to share with friends and family and vice versa.

          Actually, I’m sort of glad you brought up that related matter. I too have heard that debate. It’s gotten a bit nasty I guess you could say. Obviously libraries have books and people check them out. No need for us to debate that, it’s a fact. Well, some libraries also have an ebook library within. So if you have an ebook reader, you can check out certain books. Or “check out” in the applicable sense of the term, not literal. Now, there are all kinds of formats for digital books to be found in, but the current standard being used by libraries that have a digital collection is ePub. If your device can read ePub files, then you can check out these books. Assuming your local library offers that “service” (not sure what to really call it). Well, the debate that’s come up is related to that.

          For traditional books, libraries purchase one copy (or several) and check them out as needed. And keep reusing the same book over and over til it’s completely unreadable. Then they replace it. Now with digital books (ebooks) it’s not the same thing. You can check out the same copy over and over and it won’t wear out. It will literally never need to be replaced. For the libraries this works out greatly. They don’t need to use resources on purchasing more copies. And it still has the basic, one person per book rule. If you check it out, I can’t use it while you have it. (Very similar to Barnes and Noble’s “Lend Me” feature and the version of that feature offered by Amazon.) Now, the debate is that some publishers don’t like that. They want to place limits on how many times a book can be checked out and for how long. Or how many copies a library must purchase to be allowed to do that. They want restrictions because each book checked out (and this is part of the debate, not my personal thoughts) is one copy they now won’t sell. Lost sales, to put it simply. If the library only has to purchase one copy, they feel they won’t make money that way. Especially since it won’t ever need replacing. Now apart from that, it’s exactly the same as a regular book. Nothing different besides it being digital. Well some libraries have explained this point and don’t understand what the problem is. But some publishers don’t care (that might not be phrased correctly). They want major restrictions placed. Some are saying that a library must purchase a digital copy and it can only be checked out a total of 2 times before they must “replace” it. Which seems a bit wrong, when compared to a traditional book. Libraries don’t have to pay what are essentially licensing fees for every book in their collection. And this is the debate. What constitutes fair use for ebooks? I pointed out the difference between an ebook and a traditional one. The ebook never needs replacing. But beyond that, the rules that apply to traditional books WILL apply to ebooks. And there seems to be no middle ground at the moment. Libraries feel the rules that apply to traditional books should apply to ebooks, and some (not all) publishers feel differently. Either way, it’s a hugely contested thing. I haven’t heard any updates on that debate recently to be honest, and my local libraries don’t have that feature, so how it plays out won’t affect me one way or another. But I’m interested in how it actually ends. But there are deals in place. Like I said with B&N and Amazon, there is lending. But there’s restrictions. And I should point out, not all books are “lendable”. Some are and some aren’t. Again, it’s the publishers who decide, not the stores.

          Now I’m not sure if that’s what you mean by “digital databases”. I kind of assumed that’s what you meant. Ebooks. But I may be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

          As for file sharing, I’m with you in the it’s not strictly qualifying as “sharing”. By the “you lend and do without” definition, it doesn’t apply. So perhaps it’s not sharing in that sense. But I think the principle of it is okay. And for lack of a better definition, sharing will have to do at the moment. As for personally, I’ve always been a believer in we all know right from wrong, and we can each decide for ourselves what to do or not do. Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean it’s wrong, and just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s right. As it applies to file sharing, at the moment, it’s dependent on where you live. I’m not against it. I get why some are though. But really, to each their own. People will decide for themselves what to do. We can either accept that and move on, or we can debate it amongst ourselves. But preaching and trying to force our own personal opinions on others won’t change things. It might push more people to the opposite side of our views if anything. If you’re against file sharing and you speak to people about it reasonably, they might still keep doing it or they might not. But if you call them all thieves and b*tch at them constantly, they might go from not caring or doing it, to doing it just to spite you. Kind of a “well f*ck you, now I am gonna go do it” type of thing. And vice versa. If you preach and say “share share share damnit f*ck the man” to some. They might go the other way and side with the industries and condemn you for your ways because of how you’re coming off. At the end of the day, like I said, to each their own. There’s a great Captain America quote that while not exactly related to the topic at hand best describes my views on “each can decide for themselves”. It can be found here: http://captain-america.us/articles/civil-war.htm I suggest you check it out when you can, it’s interesting in any regard. The exact issue is Amazing Spider-Man #537

          To me, I think what we need is more innovation and services that give people the music and books and movies and shows and etc they want at cheap prices and available everywhere. Make it easily accessible and reasonably priced, and I think most people (not all, but most) will turn to a legal alternative out of convenience. (Thinking about it now, even B&N and Amazon have restrictions on their purchases. If you aren’t in the U.S. certain features are inaccessible and whatnot.) Like the Dead Kennedy’s said, “Give me convenience or give me death.” And I know some say “well you can’t compete with free”, but the truth is you can. iTunes is doing it. Netflix is doing it. Plenty of others are. So I think it’s obvious there is a market in services like that and the appetite of the customers is there to be satisfied.

          And yes sir, it clears up your meaning. You mean any copy available. You’re okay with it, as long as the artists give their consent to it being released. If it’s released on iTunes or bittorrent or hosted on a cyberlocker. Doesn’t matter as long as it’s done with permission. Read you loud and clear.

          To all, sorry for the uber long post. But I’d rather write something lengthy and come across clearly and concisely then not, and have my words misunderstood and misinterpreted.

        • Friend of the People

          Fair enough. Trust me, you weren’t misunderstood.

          You have a good take on the library issue. Personally, I’d like to see the rules for libraries simply state that they have to treat digital databases in the same way they treat physical ones; they can only release as many copies at once as they have procured. That seems fair to me, and I don’t think there’s much or any potential for abuse in that system. Publishers may not like it, but I’m not actually sure if they would have any legal ground in opposing such a system. I think that debate will turn out favorably. Opposition to libraries isn’t a very popular stance, and since libraries have already been offering copies for free, they won’t have an easy argument concerning loss of profit.

          Personally, I don’t think the publishers should really have a say on whether or not a book should be open to lending programs, but I could probably be swayed on that. I honestly have to do a bit more research before I can make a good decision on that.

          As to piracy, my opposition stems from my belief that pirates, or filesharers I suppose I should say, haven’t put forth the due diligence to trying to use legal methods to change the system. I think that if people started up a business that challenged the status quo instead of simply complaining about the current industries, more progress would be made.

          That wasn’t put very well. Let me clarify please.

          You see, I know that there are all sorts of distribution channels that use the methods filesharers like, but I don’t think any of them have reached the degree of proficiency or polish to compete with what the recording companies offer artists. Recording companies offer marketing that can help artists overcome the threshold needed to begin making money in large concerts. The current filesharing systems don’t offer any such services, and they place the burden for marketing and other bookwork on the artist.

          Another problem I have is the attitude that “we can’t change the laws, so we’ll avoid them”. I see a lot of people claiming that the legal system hasn’t worked, but from what I can see, the legal system hasn’t been honestly tried. The pirate party is usually pointed to as an example of pirates trying to change the laws, but in the United States, they have never run for office. I’ve never seen a protest either.

          I guess the key to this is that breaking the law and taking the choice to share music or other art away from the artists isn’t necessary. I know that the current systems have problems, but I think the way these should be fixed is by using the free market and out competing the current industry, as I do believe the filesharers could easily do, if there were a bit of organization. I also think they could convince many people (including me, if really successful business examples popped up), that the laws regarding intellectual property could successfully be changed.

          I’m not trying to be harsh with this, it’s just the way I see it. I really do think filesharing could be a wonderful thing, but only if it’s been implemented right.

          You know what’s funny; ever since writing here, I’ve started placing everything in terms of music sharing, even though I care about videogames much more. Honestly, I care much more about how videogames will react to these changes then I do about how music will. I have reasonably strong concerns there, but that’s an issue for another day.

          One last thing; I think Netflix is going down the tube. They’ve been raising prices and cutting services. I’m not sure if the business model, or if it’s just that they aren’t very good businessmen (although I do suspect the second more than the first).

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  • Thehack3r

    LOL! If you’re using the Russian law, you are stupid that you didn’t use WebMoney or someother Russian payment system – Using an American company like PayPal is it stupid :D

    Personally I own a website like AllofMP3, I use Plimus.com for payment, they love the russian laws, think they are american though, but I shall use them untill the government pokes their nobs into this one.

  • Fugasmic

    There’s always NoChex

  • Anonymous

    Fuck Paypal

    • Brandon

      Paypal has been fucking me for the last 10 years…. Assholes….. 8-10 dollars for one ebay transaction is Fucking Rape……

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  • Donotreply

    Worse case scenario – Western Union (if only to put the MAFIAA to good use and close down this scammers [will the Nigerian Prince please stop bugging me thanks] paradise =) ).

  • ANON

    Asking for donations to fund piracy sites, if that’s not a crime I don’t know what is. Paypal is doing the right thing by distancing themselves from criminals and yet you people somehow feel the need to trash Paypal. Hats off to Paypal for taking a stand against criminals.

    • Donotreply

      What crime?
      These websites have been proven in some countries to actually be legal to operate – like this recent article on Spain for example.
      http://torrentfreak.com/final-ruling-confirms-pirate-sites-act-lawfully-in-spain-110714/

      Where these sites are deemed to be legal in their hosting countries then I see no crime in their asking for donations, nor Paypal as being an associate to a Criminal Organisation (or whatever wording MAFIAA et al may contain in their propaganda).

      Paypal however are more than welcome to choose which websites it conducts it’s business with (provided the reasons behind it are of a legal nature [no bribery by rival companies using the Paypal service] and all funds owing within the accounts are transferred to their respective owners), just as people (whom may take offence at their actions or choose to based on other reasons) are welcome to conduct business elsewhere without Paypal.

    • Anonymous

      Stupidity and ignorance should be crimes. Of course if that were the case, a lot of the Anon people on here might get the death sentence. You did read the article right? The part where quite a few of these sites are perfectly legal by the laws of their own countries?

      So technicallly, PayPal aren’t taking a stance against criminals. They’re taking a stance against law abiding citizens of foreign countries. And doing so at the behest of organizations/industries with motives that are anything but altruistic. Shutting down legal services just because you don’t like what they’re doing or just because they operate in a manner you don’t approve of and are protected by laws you can’t violate/lobby to have changed isn’t acceptable, nor right.

  • AnarchyNow

    Paypal, like Facebook and eBay are worse than nazis who want to enslave whole humanity and kill us all!

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  • http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock

    Pirates continue to take irony to new levels every day. They think they are above paying artists for their hard work. Let’s see how they like it when their funds are withdrawn.

    People seem to think that they can change things by issuing threats. Well dont be surprised when the FBI shows up at your door.

    • JackYoureAWanker

      “It’s suggested by IFPI that the main targets of the action are Russian ‘AllofMP3?-style clones, sites that often operate legally under domestic legislation much to the disappointment of the international music industry.”

      Took that from the article, which yet again, you obviously didn’t bother to read. The sites are operating legally. Which means there is no irony here nor anything else. There are no “pirates” here. The sites are run legally and within confines of the law. So technically, if funds were withdrawn, the funds would be withdrawn from law abiding citizens.

      Also, I see nothing in the article about anyone issuing threats, besides the obvious. The music industry, showing how they refuse to acknowledge the rule of law in the countries where the sites are operating legally. And as such, since they can’t “win” by those laws and in that country, they resort to even more underhanded tactics such as these. Making backroom deals to what is essentially STEAL money from law abiding citizens.

      So since no threats are being made, how the FBI will show up at anyone’s door is pretty much the single most retarded comment you’ve made. In that post. Not in the history of all your post. Because I’m sure there are some real stand out “he can’t possibly be this retarded, but it appears he is” ones in your comment history. I’m almost tempted to check, but then I might worry about you. And just how delusional you are, or how criminally stupid you are. Either one might apply in your case.

      • Squirrel_lord_2000

        The sites may be legal in their own countries but they violate American law so the government can legally ask American companies not to do business with them. Paypal could probably avoid the whole issue by blocking US accounts from donating to such sites but since using them IS illegal in the US (whether or not it SHOULD be is an entirely different matter) Paypal or Visa or whoever could be sued for profiting from illegal activities if they allow Americans to donate. It’s probably a lot easier (and cheaper) to just not do business with those sites than it would be to try to ensure that only people living in countries that had legalized file sharing could donate to them would be.

        We can argue all day about whether music piracy should be legal or whether non-commercial file sharing is actually piracy or not (and we almost certainly will), but under US law it is considered piracy and as such it’s illegal for a US-based company to profit from it whether the website itself is legal in its home country or not. I don’t think Paypal are the bad guys here… they just don’t want to be sued for profiting from illegal websites (and since they take a cut of each donation they ARE profiting). If the government could show any American donations there’s a real chance Paypal would lose the suit since it’s illegal (or at least a violation of civil law) for Americans to download from such sites. Other countries in which Paypal operates and in which file sharing is considered piracy might also be able to sue. Paypal MIGHT win since the sites are legal in their host countries and you could argue that donations don’t prove illegal activity (paid subscription sites would be pretty much a guaranteed successful lawsuit) but no company is going to want to risk taking something like that to court… they’re in business to make a profit, not be social activists.

        As to whether it SHOULD be illegal in the US to use foreign websites that are legal in their own countries but would not be legal in the USA (those involving file sharing, gambling, and so forth)… well, it doesn’t really matter. Business don’t care if the law is good or bad, or if it makes sense or not. They care if something is going to MAKE them money or if it’s going to COST them money, and trying to fight government agencies on behalf of websites that are accused of promoting copyright infringement is a lot more likely to cost money than it is to make it. I’d certainly have a lot of respect for a company that was willing to take such a stand, but I can’t really blame one for refusing to do so.

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  • AlertPay ftw

    I’ve read through these comments and it seems as though hardly anybody knows about AlertPay. Demonoid curently uses it.

    With this current PayPal situation I’d say AlertPay is going to see a major jump in business soon. It is basically a clone of PayPal; albeit a clone that hopefully will resist coming under scrutiny by the MAFIAA

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  • gameboy

    Ukash. Nice payment method.

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