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Pirate Parties are “A Classic Civil Rights Movement”

PiratPartiet, the Swedish Pirate Party, has started its march on Brussels with a bang. The party hopes to make a strong showing in June at the European Parliament elections, and has been bolstered in its aims by comments in major Swedish newspapers, which have termed the party “a classic civil rights movement.”

pirate partiesIt was almost three years ago that the first Pirate Party was formed in Sweden. Its aim is to deal with over-reaching copyright law, and this is exactly what the Pirate Party stands for in most people’s minds. But there is more.

In recent times, the Pirate Party has been more concerned with government actions that affect ordinary citizens. The wiretapping law (FRA) for example, as well as the likes of IPRED, which will give companies chasing an alleged copyright infringer more powers than the police. Worrying for anyone that has followed our stories on Davenport Lyons in the UK. “If IPRED becomes law, then drug dealers will have greater rights and protection than file-sharers,” wrote one news site.

On Monday, the PiratPartiet released their list of candidates for the EU parliamentary election taking place in June. Heading the list is party vice-chairman Christian Engstrom, but the other 19 candidates cover a wide age-range and are of roughly equal gender. This is not a party dominated by geeky teenage boys, but one that’s growing quickly; the Swedish Pirate Party now has only a few hundred members less than the Green Party.

Other countries aren’t so lucky. Spain, Poland and France, are among those with parties that hope to run in the election, but are having difficulty getting supporters. “It’s a sad state of affairs globally,” says Andrew Norton, the coordinator of Pirate Party International. “Most countries have lots of people that just can’t be bothered. They will post on forums to express their anger, but not do anything worthwhile about it.”

However, in Sweden – the home of The Pirate Bay – things are getting better. In the prominent Swedish newspaper, Svenska Dagbladet, the headline reads “IPRED Favours the Pirate Party.” It goes on to comment on how directives like IPRED are driving people to the Pirate Party in Sweden, people who are concerned over both IPRED and FRA laws.

In their first election The Swedish Pirate Party gathered some 35,000 votes – roughly comparable to a leading 3rd party candidate in a US presidential election, percentage-wise. But, with the heavy public focus on these hot-topic issues, it’s entirely possible they’ll reach 100,000 – the number required in the last EU election in Sweden to get a seat.

The newspaper closed with a comment from political scientist and election researcher Henrik Oscarsson, who identified the Pirate Party as “a classic civil rights movement”. We have to wonder, does this make Brokep and Co. at the Pirate Bay, the digital Rosa Parks?

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  • Jack Sparrow

    Someone needs to fight back against these Despot’s and their Internet Cencorship

  • Anonymous

    LOL @ ““a classic civil rights movement.”

    Ridiculous.

  • Reasoned Mind

    When Rosa Parks took her rightful seat on the bus, she was not depriving anyone of anything that she was not entitled to. She paid her busfare like everyone else. Pirates sneak on the bus and steal the free ride, but refuse to pay the fare.

    Civil rights movement? In your dreams. Only thieves see value in piracy for themselves, while content creators get screwed. Bring on the water cannons.

  • http://piratedcopy.blogspot.com/

    yay sweden

  • http://www.eZee.se www.eZee.se

    Proud to be a Swedish citizen, guess which side and which party I will be voting for :))

    Just a matter of time, no matter how much the fatcats at MAFIAA HQ try to fight it, its just a matter of time..

    “A classic civil rights movement..”
    Beautiful! I can just about imagine how much that one line must irritate a LOT of morons sitting on their high horses.

    Cheers!
    http://www.eZee.se

    *edited as requested*

  • Ross

    As someone who has studied the Civil Rights Movement itself, I find this article laughable. The conduct on the movement was very different, with little unity between the various organisations, and with key figures driving the movement forward. Not to mention a more justifiable cause.

    This is an insult to those who attempted to find equality within the 1950-70s.

  • http://www.eZee.se www.eZee.se

    @Reasoned mind, or more like MAFIAA puppet.

    I will rather not argue with you word for word as it will just turn into a debate thats been done countless times on too many sites and forums to mention but I’ll take your same Rosa Parks example to try to show you the flaws in comparing the digital age to whatever time or reality you have deluded yourself into.

    Imagine on that very same bus that Rosa Parks was on if the conductor was charging a reallly silly amount for that ticket, lets say it was worth 50c but he was asking for $15-$30. (coincidence… the average CD price in the US and UK)

    Some people, either rich or gullable or intimidated by the “big people” running the company were willing to pay that amount, but others found a magical way so that they were able to travel on the underside of that bus, leaving the original seat available for anybody gullable enough to pay for it, now..is that stealing?
    now factor in this little tidbit, the people using the magical seats under the bus wouldnt be along for the ride anyway… if this magic was not possible.
    You’re gonna have to do some might big word spinning to classify the above as stealing.. but go for it! Least you are brave enough not to hide behind an anonymous nick..

    Now for the sake of discussion lets say that the bus company knew of this magical way of magically setting up seats under the bus,over and the sides of the bus but rather than transport more people using this magical way and charging them a decent fee, they chose to instead use evil magic (paid for laws) to counter this magic so they could stick by their old and outdated ways.

    Isnt the bus company run by a bunch of bastards?

  • muuh-gnu

    >When Rosa Parks took her rightful
    >seat on the bus, she was not
    >depriving anyone of anything that
    >she was not entitled to.

    When I share a movie with a fellow netizen (for example, a pirate bay user), I am also not deprieving anyone of anything.

    I share with other people. Other people share with me. Sharing is caring, you know? What the fsck did they teach you in your sunday school???

    >She paid her busfare like everyone
    >else.

    I and my fellow pirates also pay our busfare like everyone else.

    >Pirates sneak on the bus and steal
    >the free ride, but refuse to pay
    >the fare.

    You confuse something. Nobody here is SNEAKING onto a bus and taking a free ride.

    Sharing files is like car sharing with each other. Theres no bus in the picture AT ALL.

    >Civil rights movement? In your
    >dreams.

    Youre not the one definig this. The movement defines itself, it does need somebody outside the movement to do this.

    >Only thieves see value in piracy
    >for themselves, while content >creators get screwed.

    If “content creators” favor harsh censorship in order to make a 1950′s business model (selling copies of something) work in an age where it’s technically redundant (everyone’s cheap PC now makes those copies), they actually really need to get screwed.

    >Bring on the water cannons.

    Against peaceful people speaking for free communication and against for-profit censorship? In order to make them stop sharing information bits aka comminicating? Are you crazy?

  • Alan

    I can’t no longer say that I’m proud to be a Swedish citizen.Sweden is no longer a democracy. Fuck this man and fuck the goverment, go out there and vote for Piratpartiet.

  • muuh-gnu

    >Not to mention a more justifiable
    >cause.

    I doubt that white race supremacists found the black peoples cause to be justifiable at all.

    >This is an insult to those who >attempted to find equality within
    >the 1950-70s.

    Well, pirates of today maybe dont get physically attacked like black people in the land of the free back then, but the severity of the financial punishments they face for simply sharing stuff they like with their friends makes the smilarity more than apparent.

    Black people got threatened and attacked for being black, file sharers get threatened for sharing (=caring) stuff with other people. Go figure.

  • Killer Tree

    If the Pirate Party becomes a major party there then I am definately moving… not that I need much of an excuse to bail from the US, things are just getting scary over here.

    Of curse, TPB FTW, and screw the MAFIAA.

  • Magical Bus

    Add to the bus example that the bus company lobbied through laws forbidding the use of magic, under penalty of total ruin of the personal economy of anyone using magic, using as justification that magic that enabled a bus to transport an infinite number of people for a fixed cost ruined their business model, and you get a closer analogy.

    And a government that did not see the utility in using the magic to create a country where everyone could travel for nearly free, but instead only listened to the wealthy bus companies, and agreed to to give them rights to find and punish, and extort anyone they suspected of using magic, resulting in a fascist society with a government backed corporate mafia, and narrow minded people locked down to their small villages because travel was prohibitively expensive except for people ready to risk huge penalties.

    That’s where you get if you want to compare the current file sharing situation with free bus rides.

  • Phishybongwaters

    Pirates are not depriving anyone of anything. Downloading a digital file does NOT remove a retail copy from the store shelves.

    Case closed

  • Anonymous

    I’m sorry, regardless of how much I support file-sharing. The movement is nothing like the fight for racial equality, and no where near as important.

  • Anonymous

    It would really be amazing if a Pirate Party got a seat in an election.

  • http://www.10ch.org www.10ch.org

    @6 Ross
    I find the protection of private property rights, like the right to do whatever one wants with it (like copy, and sharing), a very justifiable cause. Or do you want to take away everybody’s right to their property?

    You are right, though, that there are not many key figures yet.

    @everyone
    Of course, it is still important to get organized. Do not you think that organizations like the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE), the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC), and the NAACP were important to the success of the movement? Moreover, organization promotes such key figures, of which there are few at the moment. Do not you think that figures like Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, the Little Rock 6, etc. were important for the success of the movement? Organization is important for the success of this as well – organization of which I see so little of yet.

    Roze

  • lol@uross

    ross, you realize that is a quote from another media source, not this article right? Take your anger out on them, not this article. This article isn’t laughable, its quite interesting to see that the piratpartiet has a chance of getting representation in the EU parliament.

  • Ghost

    In two years, when I reach legal age in the USA im moving to Sweden, im done with america. I really hope this party gets a seat, itll be amazing if they do.

    Go TPB :)

  • ee-yup

    “Most countries have lots of people that just can’t be bothered. They will post on forums to express their anger, but not do anything worthwhile about it.”

  • http://neuron2neuron.blogspot.com Ben Jones

    To ghost, and others. You are aware that there is a US Pirate Party as well. In fact Mr Norton, mentioned in this article, was formerly the chairman of the US Pirate Party. He apparantly moved to ‘help other parties, while the US party has no elections pending’.

  • John

    @Reasoned Mind, interesting sidenote, The Pirate Party (at least in sweden) is not just saying “everyone is doing this, so it should be ok”, they’re basically saying “this law was created in an age when typewriters were the hottest invention around, since then everything had just been added to it layer by layer. that law needs to be adapted, possibly totally rewritten to fit this day and age.”
    it’s not a random gathering of kids screaming “gief leech pl0x” there is actually a little more than that behind it. they’re not saying “legalize this now” they’re saying “this law is wrong and needs to be looked at”.

  • Pingback: Il Partito dei Pirati presenta la sua lista per il Parlamento Europeo | 0.2

  • mister_playboy

    I think the magical bus analogy is very eloquent. Nice.

  • Jeff

    I kinda like the Library analogy that i saw somewhere.
    everyone thinks copying files is such a big crime, and yet people go to libraries and copy the pages they need out of books and see nothing wrong with it.
    It’s the same principle.
    Someone sold a product, someone bought it – and then you make copies from it.
    Granted a library pays more for a book than a consumer would(with a different license), but the analogy holds true.

  • Rick Falkvinge (pp)

    Anon #14: The fight is not for file sharing. That the Pirate Party demands legalized file sharing is a consequence, not the outset.

    The Pirate Party demands the right to privacy, the right to challenge authority, and the right to share knowledge, culture, and ideas.

    Basically, it’s about defining the line between private and public information — and realizing that any attempt to force information across that line, in either direction, requires severely repressive legislation.

    You can’t make private information public without either forcing citizens to give it up, or eavesdropping on them without their consent.

    You can’t make public information private without preventing people from ever communicating it in private. (This is where file sharing comes in. The question to be asked is; “how repressive means is the government prepared to undertake in order to prevent citizens from communicating already-publicized data in private between them?”)

    That’s way more important than racial equality — or any other political concrete issue. This is a meta-issue. If you can’t talk to your friends about how the government is wrong without getting targeted and harassed, you don’t even get to the point where you can start to take action to change things.

    First things first.

  • Anonymous

    It’s sad to see users still on public trackers, where they have to worry about this.

  • elgeebar

    I just want to point one thing out to people who are pissed-off at this issue being likened to the civil rights moments of old…

    Once upon a time, “black men” were slaves. That met in the eyes of the law they were somebodies property!

    So, you decide. Is campaigning to change property laws that are wrong a good or a bad thing?

  • ???

    piracy makes you a chick magnet, i got millions of girlz in my harddrives!

    no but seriously for me its all about the future, im going to enjoy culture as long as i can :)
    when i cant i might aswell kill myself.

    no but seriously.. copyright/record labels and stuff needs major changing for the future.
    i could pay a additional fee on my connection or a tax, but how the industry is right now there is NO WAY im paying them a dime so they can pay lobbyist maffia to hurt people, even if its not physical.
    i wouldnt trust IFPI/RIAA or any other similar corrupted organisation to handle tax money or try to figgure out who earns the money etc.

    I would realy want artists to be employed directly by the government, record labels need to die imo their the true evul of copyright and lobbying.

    Artists then get tax from a trusted instance, they get a more secure and stable job and we all get what we want. It will also require more, there might be higher standards and not anyone can be a artist wich is also good.

    Basicly kill record labels, kill copyright (for the relevant items/area) create a tax, government employs artists/entertainment creators.
    Government now ensures artists pensions, being a artist/entertainment creator is now a mutch more “real” (dont kill me but its true) job with real warranties and ensurances that many dont get.

    I know it sounds bad having the government, but i trust any government (*coff* in my country *coff*) over the old maffia record labels for handling anything like this when it comes to tax or additional fees to legalize music and movie copying/sharing/distribution/stealing/whatever..

    monopoly! i can hear some scream, well no not realy just the death of the extremely expensive middle hand that artists slave for, they will work for the government instead creating entertainment for the people.
    so many middle hands will be cut, so many organisations and corperations can be killed or stopped from leeching, everything would be smoother, leener, cheaper, safer and more secure.

    The benefiters are the artists (except insane ones making 10millions/month).
    And they are the ones who we should be paying, but are paying the least when we actualy pay for something because of all the middle hands and leeches.

    Maybe im crazy.. need more girlz!

  • Name

    Please try to make ACCURATE analogies in the future.

    The motivations and efforts behind the civil rights movement were entirely different from that of the pirate party.

    It IS a civil rights movement, but by no means classic, and by no means anywhere comparable to Rosa Parks.

    I am in full support of the PiratPartiet, but not absurd over reaching analogies.

  • SeaHawk

    I wish you luck with this… No doubt, you represent hope for more freedom in europe, at a very bleak time; and one of the last voices not corrupted by money. From France with much pirate love.

  • Henry Emrich

    “I’m sorry, regardless of how much I support file-sharing. The movement is nothing like the fight for racial equality, and no where near as important.”

    False on both counts:

    1. The “Fight for Racial equality” involved (in case anybody doesn’t already know this) the deliberate and systematic violation of the “property rights” of the owners of segregated lunch counters. See, these people figured it was their “right” to be able to ban those of a particular race from their business. The Bus companies also figured it was their “right” to stipulate what their paying customers (of certain races) could do — where they were “permitted” to sit, etc.

    Well, to put it bluntly, the “sacred right of property” didn’t hold water in this case. Those working against racism deliberately and forcefully engaged in “lawbreaking” by refusing to obey “Whites Only” bullshit.

    In the same vein, those denigrated as “pirates” are pretty much the only ones standing up against the ever-longer copyright terms bought by lobbying groups. I mean, come on — Life plus 70 years? Fuck that. All-but-perpetual monopolies suck. This isn’t about “content creators”, either — Sony, the “rights-holder” to the tune “happy birthday to you”, had NOTHING TO DO with composing that song, but they feel entitled to extort money every time it’s sung at a child’s birthday party.

    If you don’t “get” why this is important, then you deserve to be fleeced by the RIAA and other corporate lobbies. Ultimately, it’s NOT simply about “free stuff” — it’s about using technological means to thwart bad law, and standing the hell up against increasing corporate power to spy on us.

    And let’s recall some history here, people: any of you buy “used” records or books or anything like that? The fact that you’re “permitted” to do so rests on some variant of the “first-sale doctrine”. Basically, “rights-holders” at the beginning of the 20th century attempted to impose “licensing restrictions” which were really similar to those found in the ubiquitous EULA agreements of much software (no resale, no resale below a specific price, etc.)

    Thankfully, people bitch-slapped that into the ground by refusing en masse to obey it, and eventually (over the strenuous protests of copyright monopolists), people were finally “permitted” to re-sell stuff they’d paid for.

    p2p and the “pirate movement” is ultimately about reasserting the “public donain” by technological means. It’s essentially DRM in reverse — “Cultural Rights enforcement”, yo could call it.

    Life plus 70 years? Blow me.

  • Every country needs a pirate party

    @ ???
    Exactly, all the middle men getting rich from the consumer & artist need to be cut & will be cut.

    @ All readers
    Should only be a matter of time until all the real artists release directly to the consumer via the web whether its bit torrent or otherwise, they have been doing it for years as it is by starting their own labels so they dont have to pay the corparate whores who also fleece them of the money that the consumer pays for the hard work that the real artists have put in.

    @ Roze
    Some of us introduce people to bit torrent as a form of action & also educate about the slavery that the mpaa/riaa pushes :}

    @retarded mind/mafiaa puppet/
    You just dont understand that your days of facilitating mind numbing, spirit crushing content for a over inflated price is almost over.

  • Every country needs a pirate party

    @ ???
    Exactly, all the middle men getting rich from the consumer & artist need to be cut & will be cut.

    @ All readers
    Should only be a matter of time until all the real artists release directly to the consumer via the web whether its bit torrent or otherwise, they have been doing it for years as it is by starting their own labels so they dont have to pay the corparate whores who also fleece them of the money that the consumer pays for the hard work that the real artists have put in.

    @ Roze
    Some of us introduce people to bit torrent as a form of action & also educate about the slavery that the mpaa/riaa pushes :}

    @retarded mind/mafiaa puppet/
    You just dont understand that your days of facilitating mind numbing, spirit crushing content for a over inflated price are over

  • Anonymous

    So you propose 0 years plus nothing? Blow me.

    Dress it up all you want, the whole “movement” (lol) amounts to nothing more than self-entitled nerds wanting a free lunch.

    You’re not “freedom fighters” you’re just “freetards”.

  • Stephen

    Anonymous (#34) :
    Common mistake there, what you refer to is an “internet pirate” not to be confused with the pirate party.
    just read Richard Falkvinge (pp)’s post on the previous page.

  • Anonymous

    I think some people misunderstand the pirate parties goal. They are not seriously trying to get into power, they know they will only every be a minor party, and hell they are only a one issue party, they can’t run a country.

    In Sweeden the two major parties are nearly always neck and neck. They want to form a large enough party so they are a wedge in the pie chart. That way for either of the big two to get into power they will have to form a joint party with them. This way they can get their issues (Copyright law and Privacy) onto the table. The pirate party does not want to rule, they want to make changes! And this is the way they can really do it.

  • Diji1

    I have to agree with the analogy being drawn here as ridiculous; yes, I realise TF is just quoting here.

    It was interesting to read Richard Falkvinge’s words regrading what the Pirate Party stands for and I certainly support this standpoint but I have to ask is this *really* why they’re running this campaign? The fact that they have the name Pirate Party seems to allude to the fact that they are focused on changing laws to allow what is currently copyright infringement to be legalised and doesn’t indicate this broader agenda.

    @33 : “Should only be a matter of time until all the real artists release directly to the consumer via the web whether its bit torrent or otherwise, they have been doing it for years as it is by starting their own labels so they dont have to pay the corparate whores who also fleece them of the money that the consumer pays for the hard work that the real artists have put in.”

    “Real artists”? What the hell gives an artist that attribute – whether you think they’re “cool” or not? Like it or not there are many millions of people who like artists that you do not and whether you think the content is rubbish doesn’t change the fact that many millions like Britney Spears (for example) and gain pleasure from her music. Hard to believe but people don’t purchase/download music they don’t like.

    Another thing wrong with your statement is this: if it’s so advantageous to release music (for example) through means other than major record labels why is it the case that the vast majority of artists do not aspire to do this? After all it isn’t hard these days to do this. It is extremely rare for any artist releasing content through a website or P2P to gain any significant amount of money or recognition. I can think of 1 offhand: Basshunter (who is crap IMO) and there’s no doubt others but it’s very much an exception to the rule. Basshunter only gained so much recognition anyhow – because he signed up with a major label: Sony BMG I think. So that model wasn’t working for him.

    You only have to look at the evidence to see that joining a major label has real and tangible benefits to artists: they are not stupider than you and I, they act in their own self-interest and an enormous proportion aspire to join major labels. Not small labels and they don’t release their material through websites.

    In any case, I suspect the level of piracy would be the same regardless of which avenue they choose to use and the majority of people who download their music would not pay a dime to the artist; much like now.

    Also, much as I hate to burst people’s delusions about “corporate fatcats” at major labels getting rich off artists, the fact is that artists at small, independent record labels are paid far less than artists at the major labels.

  • freetard

    well said.

  • Jacob

    Wow it’s not just me. Yer when I am old enough I am seriously going to think about bailing out of New Zealand and going to Sweden. Omg Sweden rules. Only one downside and that is that theyre first language is not english. Hope they get a seat. I do not think our country has a pirate party :(. We have comunists here :(. comunistic corporatists :(. They do not even understand theyre corporatists but they are :(. And there allso comunists. Now that is fucked up. They may as well wave a flag that says “go democracy” and on the back says “go dictators”.

  • Findeton

    Yes, The Pirate Parties are a Classic Civil Rights Movement.

    Most of the comments assume that Pirate Parties just talk about Copyright issues. Well, you are WRONG.

    ¡¡There’s also the PRIVACY issue!! And that issue is so fuckin’ important that it’s comparable to givin’ back their rights to black people.

  • Anonymous

    Oh yes, of course a 15 yo kid spouting phrases like “OMG” and considers New Zealand to be run by “Communists” is eminently qualified to know that “they’re corporatists” – even when they don’t. That’s right – the kid is that smart!

    You’re at the age when you’re too young too know any better, too naive to realise your not smarter than everyone else (Mummy and teachers say that your intelligent to reinforce you’re low self-esteem I bet) … or how thick you sound I guess Jacob.

    Suffice to say you sound like a moron: I hate to break it to you but it doesn’t get much freer than New Zealand so if it’s that bad then your shit out of luck.

  • AnarchyNow

    They are pitiful, they won’t achieve anything except more criminalization, we’re already 2 cm far from being called “terrorists” because we terrorize the terrorists of the MAFIAAs

  • xnatasx

    Illegal filesharing might lose some off it’s appeal with Spotify!

    That’s the way for the industry to go.

  • kmeisthax

    Those comparing the pirate parties to Rosa Parks are making a mistake. The issue isn’t “the pirates are getting a free ride”, it’s “the bus company is giving free rides and there’s some company trying to stop it saying they have the right to all busses.”

  • Larry BEaner

    Yey! We just love classic Pirate parties! Weeeeeee.

    jess
    http://www.anonymity.cz.tc

  • Hoshpak

    Hey, don’t forget the German pirate party! We could also need more supporters but we are after all the second largest pirate party worldwide and we are goint to participate in the coming european & national elections and the regional election in Hesse.

    Share on!

  • Az

    I didn’t know this party existed. I’m stoked. A new political movement that represents the way I feel.

    I’ve enquired about signing up in my own country and I hope this is the start of something good. Thanks for making me aware of it.

    And to those who disparage the idea that this is a civil rights movement, I can only say that you and I are opponents.

  • dustin

    Sweden is awesome

  • Sun5

    @Reasoned mind, or more like MAFIAA puppet.

    100% with No.7

  • Ja Torrent

    Someone made an aXXo movie and put it on Vuze: http://www.vuze.com/details/ON3YA3BJGFE3UKEWOBJNOZDWFTPLNTEC.html

    Not sure why the chick gets naked and takes a shower, but good to see aXXo celebrated.

  • http://www.10ch.org www.10ch.org

    @37 Diji1
    It may be true that “art” is subjective, but the fact still stands that BETTER is BETTER, and that the demeanor of art would improve when there is P2P. People have choice now–it is true, but people will be able to choose from better things when the demeanor of art improves. Don’t pretend that art can’t improve — because it can.

    Roze

  • freetard

    That didn’t make any sense Roze.

    But at least you’re being consistent…

  • James

    Sweden is amazing. The only place you could say comes close to a true Democracy. In an age where Governments are heading towards a Dictatorship.

  • Henry Emrich

    “So you propose 0 plus nothing.”

    If need be, yeah. Why? Because the fuckin’ lobbyists couldn’t be content with the original, genuinely “limited” term of 14 years in most jurisdictions. If you don’t get this, like I said, then you’re an idiot, and you deserve to be fleeced by these corporate vermin.

    And yes, unfortunate that many of the indie “labels” are even worse than the majors, but the problem there is that copyright law exists, and provides for “works for hire”. Most “label”-based releases — whether “indie” or major, are classified as “works for hire”. Thus, the “artists” you IP-defending types are always bleating about are, contractually, little different than Wal-Mart greeters or some guy employed by Walgreens.

    That’s the problem: the viewpoint that says that “content creators” can/should be somebody other than who holds the “rights” to distribution. Not to mention the ever longer copyright terms. Life plus 70? Like I said, fuck you.

    A passive income-stream for corporate CEO’s vs. the public domain? Public domain every time.

    Now stop reflexively defending corporate lobbies, and actually think for a few seconds.

    I’m pretty sure “Reasoned Mind” used to go by “Sam I Am” — same kind of nonsequitur, RIAA spew interspersed with Net-speak (so he can sound “with it”).

    Go ahead, keep defending the RIAA idiots. Then when they succeed in “owning” everything cultural in perpetuity, gutting the Internet, destroying any remaining “right to privacy”, and banning personal recording devices, we’ll see how nice of a world it becomes.

    All that, just to defend the monopoly power of a few already-wealthy corporate megaliths.

    If you actually sign with a label — ANY label — you’re fucked.

  • http://www.10ch.org www.10ch.org

    @52 freetard
    If you need it to be simplified in order to understand, well, here it is: “quality of art is subjective BUT art itself can make progress and improve; P2P is positive for this progress and improvement of the arts – at least it cannot improve/progress under this MAFIAA system.”

    @everyone
    ?So you propose 0 plus nothing.?

    When companies do something wrong, there is no need to compensate for anything when it is necessary for them to stop. There is no need to compensate either. Let those companies figure out for themselves what they should do to make money. Why should anyone else be responsible for how they make money?

    Roze

  • Karl

    People are missing parts of the picture.

    The laws mentioned means, among other things, that pretty much everyones communications through the net will be logged and stored. Have you got anything you don’t want to share with the world? Tough luck. It will be there to be found.

    It will also endow private companies with rights to act pretty much as a police against suspected downloaders. It can be abused, it has been abused, and it will be abused.

    It has moved far beyond piracy, Piratpartiet is fighting against what looks ever more like a 1984-ish sociaty. We call it Bodströmsamhället after a politician that pushes for these changes.

    So yes, it is very much a civil rights movement.

  • Diji1

    @51 : “It may be true that “art” is subjective, but the fact still stands that BETTER is BETTER, and that the demeanor of art would improve when there is P2P.”

    What are you talking about? Why will an alternative distribution method (ie. p2p) improve artistic content. If you’re saying that artists will produce better content without copyright and or large companies doing distribution I call bullshit because this can and does happen now – except this kind of art isn’t popular. For the vast majority of popular art in the music and movie areas there is a large corporate behind it. If you don’t like it fair enough but that fact is that millions of people who are just as intelligent as you or I do consume it. They wouldn’t if they didn’t like it.

    Do you believe that artistic works have improved since the advent of p2p – because I consistently see people saying the reason they don’t want to pay for music and movies is because they are low quality horseshit. This isn’t my view, I just download because I can and I prefer to save money and have the immediacy of having it sooner than otherwise – I enjoy much of what I download.

    There’s a tendency for many over-zealous people that post here to crap on about the “poor artists” being “controlled” by the “corporate fatcats” – which is horseshit. As I posted before, artists are not stupid and the vast majority who produce music and movies aspire to be signed by major labels because there are large tangible benefits to them including large amounts of money not available otherwise and promotion – this isn’t me being a mouthpiece for the MPAA or anyone else, it’s what happens in reality.

    I trust you noticed that in this and other posts I have stated that I haven’t purchased anyhting for years that I can download and I download everything I can that I want: music, movies, books, comics. I don’t support any artist whatsoever even if I really love their work.

    However I don’t blatantly ignore reality of what happens in the real world and I don’t pretend that a small number of artists that don’t wish to be represented by major labels means jackshit in terms of the majority of artists.

  • Al

    Diji1,

    “I don’t support any artist whatsoever even if I really love their work.” Wow! Well then guess what? You should stop consuming the work! If you don’t want to buy it, don’t use it.

    Whether or not artists are independent, they deserve to be paid for their work. The reality is that it’s certainly not easy for artists to remain independent, as the costs of funding their own projects are extremely prohibitive (especially if someone like you won’t pay for it even if you like it). But even artists on labels today are often struggling financially. Beyond your handful of MTV celebs, the vast majority of working musicians, whether or not they’re on a label, don’t make a huge profit. I’m an independent musician, with friends who are both on and not on labels. The ones on labels have better distribution, but are struggling just as much.

    I get that people feel like the labels are screwing people, and for a long time that was true, but 99 cents (or even less with some online retailers) is not too much to ask for a song that even for a small, unsigned indie like myself, may have cost a couple of thousand dollars to record.

    Maybe you don’t download any independent music, and think all label artists are rich, so you simply don’t care. However, you need to realize that with most recordings or films, the retail price reflects not only the physical cost of manufacturing, but the paychecks of every person involved with making the record or movie.

    Here are a few of the people you screw every time you steal (and downloading illegally is stealing) a song or movie:

    -The recording engineer
    -The mastering engineer
    -All the side player musicians who are not the name artist but who make their living playing on other people’s records
    -The graphic designer who put together the artwork

    For film:
    -The non-name actors and extras who do not make big money but pay their bills this way
    -Costume designers
    -Set designers
    -Gaffers
    -Grips
    -Production assistants
    -Film editors
    -Sound editors
    and scores of other people.

    These are ordinary people who make modest salaries but don’t make anything at all when people stop making records or movies because no one is buying them. Sure–those folks get paid up front, but there’s less and less work for them.

    Yes–there’s a lot of corporate crap that gets churned out, but there’s also a lot of great art. You yourself said you enjoy a lot of what you download. Problem is, when you download it instead of paying for it, there’s that much less work for designers, editors, engineers, and thousands of people whose skills and hard work make the works you enjoy downloading possible. When the industry loses money, there are less jobs for all of us.

    No one’s asking you to pay for crap. But if you enjoy something, you should pay for it. It’s only fair. You simply do not have the moral high ground here. A 99 cent download is NOT the equivalent of a $30 local bus ticket, so let’s put that poorly thought-out analogy to bed.

    I’m not terribly keen myself on the invasion of privacy involved in the current plan, but clearly people who produce creative work need to be protected from people who feel morally justified in downloading work without paying. Downloading and making copies is different from say, lending a friend a book or a CD to listen to. It’s once you’re offering something for download–thereby allowing huge numbers of people to make copies, that you’ve crossed the line into distributing. Heck, I don’t even think it’s a big deal to make a copy of something for a friend or two. But when you put something on a P2P network where hundreds of people can get it without paying, that’s a huge problem, because the lost revenue becomes significant. Personally, I think the best solution at the moment is to go after P2P networks. Most of you will balk at that as well, but frankly, copyright owners have to stand up for ourselves somehow because our entire livelihood is at stake, and while some sharing among friends is caring, never paying for anything and putting other people’s work online for download is not caring. It’s telling the very artists whose work you enjoy and all of the other people who make their living in the music and film industries to go f*ck themselves. And that’s not very nice of you.

  • Teed Rockwell

    For those of you who want free content, there is plenty of it out there. If you hate the big media corporations so much, don’t buy their music. Buy from the unknowns who give away free downloads.

    The best system would be to let the artist decide whether or not to give the content away. Unknowns would give away their content for publicity purposes. Once they became popular, they would start charging. This would create a continuous flow of talent from the bottom to the top, and be better both musically and financially for everyone.

  • TAURUS

    I AM BEING CHASED BY DAVENPORT LYONS SHOULD I BE WORRIED

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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