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‘Pirated’ Youtube Clip Boosts Band’s Album Sales

If the major record labels are to believed, they lose millions of dollars due to YouTube pirates. But is this really the case? While anti-piracy outfits try to have all infringing music taken offline or have the audio on pirated YouTube clips disabled, the band Barcelona responded with a video thanking a video uploader for using their song.

Every day hundreds of thousands of clips are uploaded to YouTube, some of which use copyrighted music. Of course the major record labels argue that these illegal uploads are killing their profits as people buy less music when YouTube users add a track to a home made video.

Not everyone in the music business agrees with this assessment though. When the indie rock band Barcelona saw one of its latest tracks featured in a viral video with nearly a million views, they responded quite differently. They claim that the clip below actually boosted their album sales and concert visits.

Kuroshio Sea featuring the Barcelona track

So, instead of demanding that YouTube pull the video, the band posted a response to the ‘Kuroshio Sea’ video on the site, thanking their new found fans and the uploader who posted the original video.

“We’re so flattered to learn that it features one of our songs called Please Don’t Go,” Barcelona’s lead singer Brian Fennell says in the video response.

“We want to let you know that it’s been affirming in the last week to watch in the iTunes store a correlation with the sales of our record ‘Absolutes’, growing in the rock charts as a result of having the song placed in the video,” drummer Rhett Stonelake added.

Barcelona’s response

Aside from the boost in record sales, the band says that they’ve also met some new fans who came to their concerts after seeing the video on YouTube. It is a great way of promoting music online, especially when it’s coupled to a great video.

Unfortunately for most artists, anti-piracy outfits such as the RIAA, BPI and IFPI are increasingly policing YouTube to get all copyrighted music taken off the site. One such artist to suffer recently is the unfortunate Calvin Harris, who clashed with the music industry lobby group BPI.

“IT’S MY FUCKING SONG YOU ABSOLUTE BASTARDS,” Harris wrote on Twitter when he found out that YouTube had removed a clip he uploaded himself, following a copyright complaint from the BPI.

“FUCK YOU ‘The BPI’ what have you ever done for anybody you useless shower of cunts,” he added. As if that wasn’t enough Harris labeled the BPI the “worst organization to ever walk the earth” and their online employees “massive retards.”

Like many other artists, Harris just wants his music to be heard, and he believes that putting a clip on YouTube might in fact introduce new people to his music. If people like what they hear, they might even buy his album or visit his gigs, much like what happened with Barcelona.

YouTube is free promotion for bands and artists, it has the potential to drive revenue instead of killing it. It is time for the major labels and anti-piracy outfits to listen to the artists for once, and perhaps ask them if they actually want to have their content removed or not.

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  • redmarine

    Meh, The Entertainment Industry doesn’t care…

  • ARPIT

    yeah man piracy will win always !
    now all the artist should stop going to greedy labels and star posting the videos for free and can earn 4rm live concerts !

    ! MY COMPUTER CAN BEAT ME AT CHESS BUT I ALWAYS WIN WHEN IT COMES TO KICK BOXING !

  • Amareus

    Beautiful video, striking.

  • SF Legend

    “Useless shower of cunts”, huh? I’ll have to use that one myself at some point.

  • Sendaii

    The music industry is still stuck in the Jurassic era. We have said it many times, it is time for them to shape up or ship out. When a business decides to introduce a new service, they may carry out some market research and listen to their existing customers. Not the music industry. Their way of doing this is “my way or I sue and send a DMCA takedown notice your way”. That does not work, has been proven over and over again that it does not work, and will only lose them customers. Who wants to be held metaphorically hostage every time they watch or upload a video with copyrigted music playing in the background? No one.

    Music industry suits, listen to the consumers and “your” artists. No one gives a flying f**k if their song ends up on YouTube. Only you do. For the rest of us, it’s free promotion.

  • Flaxx

    At least someone’s sane enough to see the truth.

  • Matt F.

    I just bought this album off iTunes. Bands with attitudes like this need to be rewarded.

    http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=311254032&s=143441

  • anon

    I love how Harris calls BPI a “shower of cunts” ;-D

    Also, great band this one. I love the song. Shame they aren’t on Spotify.

  • anon

    I just bought this album too.

    Seriously, people.. we are here because we want changes in the music industry.. this is why we torrent. I think if the music industry sees that when it is done right this band’s album sales goes through the roof, they will stop hating and prosecuting on those of us who torrent certain music.

    I want to make this band a poster child. I want to make them #1.

    The most critical thing they’ve done in their career is to make this video. Nice work Barcelona!

  • a/s/l

    when will artists learn?

    if you sign to a major label YOU DON’T OWN YOUR SONGS ANY MORE.

    tough shit barcelona

  • anonymous

    to the comment above me: you obviously didn’t read the post. they are having a good attitude about it and are being grateful.

  • Anonymous

    YouTube is the future of advertising, it’s how people see stuff. That’s why Warner Music Group is sinking because they won’t let users show off WMG artists work. I’ve bought several songs ‘cuase I saw a video using a cool song.

  • Donald rhinesfelt

    Wtf happened to torrent freak tv?

  • MeHere

    Its that blindness of the business that will kill current labels and rise new ones …

  • trickle

    Maybe they are claiming it’s for piracy, when in fact it’s to limit income of others.

    you seriously handycap the competition if you control an easy access to free advertisement.

    Then all the major record labels can still get their loads of cash… and the little guys have to flap their wings and try to fly in cement.

  • hudson

    fair play to the guy, but did he sign a contract with a label that’s a member of the bpi that claims ownership of the copy rights? i don’t understand why the bpi would make the claim otherwise..

  • Skittles

    I’ve always loved Barcelona, band and location. (Latter has good food)

    Join Moby in the internal take down of the “Shower of Cunts”

  • Anonymous

    The video is great.

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  • Skittles

    Is it just me or has neostyles just not been around lately?

  • balzy

    Course they lose dollars course people don’t have to buy their music according to what’s popular nowadays or based on album covers so they lose their most prominent cash cows (britney and such)and thats what eating their asses off

    Oh yeah and Calvin Harris is my god from this day on….. friggin’ sweet

  • Widget

    The only problem is that if you sign with a label and write a song, it’s not your song even as you’re writing it.

  • Reasoned Mind

    “The only problem is that if you sign with a label and write a song, it’s not your song even as you’re writing it.”

    That’s right. A floral designer working for a florist doesn’t own their own creations either, the shop does. Same for automotive design. Same for architectural firms. Same for fashion, engineering, etc., if you work for a larger firm and accept the benefits of being there, they own your work. They come up with the money, they take the risk, they pay you a guaranteed salary, benefits, they cover packaging and marketing, a facility, legal protection from infringement and they own the work in exchange.

    If you don’t like this arrangement you can always go out on your own and feed yourself and pay your mortgage on T-shirt money and pay for everything out of your own pockets and then get lost amongst 300 million other YouTube bands while your so-called “fans” pirate the work that YOU now own. lol

  • Old Timer

    Reasond mind…You analogy is enlighting thanks…you prove the case that your IP is not your own if you work for a company…

    So in you mind it is better NOT to sign with a record label to highlight your skills because once you sign, you are a slave for life to them…no wonder so many artists and letting contracts lapse and starting their own companies giving fair rights to artists…man…I thought slavery was done a couple hundred years ago…..

    Cheers, and good luck on the unenplowment line RM…

  • UltraLeetJ

    interestingly flawled analogy indeed. Again, music is by the people, for the people. Another key issue is that the COMPOSERS are not credited. You think a singer made the song, but who really did/ I mean if we’re goin to follow this analogy, then i beg and will do anything for crediting of composers. But unfortunately when I’m going to choose music amongst the most advertised, that is, music carried by the huge record labels i only find CRAP. Not only that but i also find they’re blaming something that’s been out there for centuries, the distribution of files and data for their “losses” . Furthermore, they impose awful, misscalculated retard-math fines on lawsuits, and when or if they’d ever get this money they think they can compensate the artists… how can they track how much an artist earns? geez… “compensating artists” is a good movie title to replace the one found in “mission impossible”. Not only this but if they ever get that money they’ll NEVER pay the artist back. Worse, this copy-stripped rights scheme does indeed enslave musicians, customers and audiences–I died and you’re still making money off MY WORK! Perhaps if they showcase REAL talent their profits will increase. I’m grateful for the people who have promoted my work and performances, (and have done so even without my permission!!) . This analogy is just saying no to newly opened doors and change. Its something that is scared to work by good MORALITY. THis is why we don’t want the new copyright scheme, because the industry STEALS your work. THis is the perfect failure. Copying, again, is NOT stealing. But, if i make a song and I don’t get credit for it and people make money off it (industry, big company, ETC) THAT is both PIRACY and STEALING. Thanks for the remarks reasoned mind, you seem to have more reason now… after all, you say that this is the case with all of the big industries.. you’ve just proved the point that copying and “piracy” is not stealing. Way to go mate!

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  • ObviousObviousIsObvious

    The current system is broken…

    If the artists want to succeed it is becoming increasingly clear that they must distance themselves from the very agencies that are supposedly in place to “protect their interests”. Moby is right. It’s time for an end, but not to file sharing, to these armies of fools who think they can stop file sharing without alienating the owners of the precious wallets they hope to invade so vigorously once they’re done dismantling the internet.

    Sadly, just like the rest of us, these agencies are there to protect their own interests, first and foremost. To believe otherwise is ridiculous. They don’t care about artists, they care about the conglomerates that pay them to do their evils, because that’s who’s paying the bills. The artists are merely their pets. They are just using the artists “puppy eyes” as leverage to garner sympathy and more power to spread their own foul corruption.

    The greatest part of it all is that if they ever succeed in eliminating file sharing in it’s entirety (impossible), what need is there for them to exist? This would be like police who wish for there to be no more crime. Or garbage men praying that there won’t be any more garbage. It will never end.

    What is needed is an artifical victory so they can go home cheering and thinking that piracy is over and disband the “showers of useless cunts”. Meanwhile, we can all just VPN and anon like it’s business as usual, with them none the wiser.

    I feel for the artists and studios that have gotten sucked into long-term contracts with the companies these leeches are a front for. The fallout is already being felt and it’s only going to get exponentially worse as time goes on. People aren’t going to support their enemies, and they’re doing just that, making more and more enemies.

    As a digital artist, I’m still relegated to making money off of physical products like framed prints being sold or by teaching formal art classes. To gain exposure I give away wallpapers and images any way I can. I cannot, nor would I ever think of as an honest practice, charging people to download a low-quality .jpg of my works(iTunes FTL). I have a hard time feeling sorry for these AA artists’ handlers when they believe it’s okay to do what, in my own line of work, is considered to be unconscionable.

    The line is drawn. The proof is in the torrents. We don’t need the AA’s to make copies for us and try to charge us an arm and a leg to do it. We can do that in our free time. When we need overpriced entertainment, we all know where they are if we’re feeling especially gullible…

    Just as Stardock received huge boosts in their sales because of their position opposing DRM, the indie artists and studios who oppose the MAFIAAs will enjoy more support as well.

    This week I bought Moby’s new CD because I agree with him. Don’t even like his music, but it takes balls of steel to publicly stand up to the RIAA, and he gets my support for that. Somebody will get the disc as a present. Just tonight, because of this article, I ordered an import of Barcelona’s album because they sounded like cool guys and their music is original and unique. Barcelona will sell more albums as one of the poster children of file sharing, because we do buy things when we know it supports the artists and not some hyper-conglomerate of litigious assholes and cuntshowers.

  • xentar

    Hmm. Shower of cunts? That’d be interesting to watch…

  • Lachlan Hunt

    One more thing that would help this band get more sales would be if their record label actually allowed sales outside the USA! I clicked the iTunes link posted in comment #7 above, and got told it wasn’t available for me in the Australian store, but is in the US. What kind of moron thinks it’s a good idea to impose regional restrictions like that?!

  • d[iO]nysus

    @25

    The RIAA, BPI, BREIN, and organizations like them are NOT cunt-showers. When cunts get fucked, they don’t bitch NEARLY as much!

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  • Flyer

    THERE MUST BE OTHER REASONS

    I’ve been wondering about the weird policy of these companies – Are their excutives really that stupid? – I don’t think so! – These are intelligent people – you don’t reach those top level positions in such huge organisations by being stupid

    Don’t they read the results of scientific studies and are they not aware that “piracy” and P2P aren’t a threat? – I think they do

    Don’t they understand that they fight an already lost war? – I think they do

    So WHY do they keep on going – What other HIDDEN agenda do they have? – It is kinda scary – Maybe THEY are tools for even darker forces? – Am I paranoid? -

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  • Ims

    Great job BPI!

    Instead of viewing the video / listening to the song legally on Youtube, I will go ahead and pirate it!

    Yipee! Doesn’t it feel good to contribute to piracy which you hate so much? (Don’t worry, once the song is out, I will download and seed it :D)

    This also goes to the “shower of cunts” at the RIAA and IFPI.

    Plus, a great response from Barcelona.

  • meeeee

    @ 22 Jul 28, 2009 at 04:19 by Reasoned Mind

    thats ok except they supress the competition, therfore thier ‘clients’ have no choice if they wish ‘thier’ product to be heard in a wider sense

  • eni_

    @Reasoned Mind:
    That system only works (read ‘worked’) in a time when society was small enough to keep boxed in and controlled. Although it was a valiant, and indeed /rightful/ move at the time to protect both the company and in many cases the actual artist/composer/designer et cetera… The system breaks down when you are faced with a society like the one we have currently, which is no better or worse than the previous one, simply different.
    I am not much of a hardline Capitalist, far from it, I believe that capitalism in many cases damages society; however in this case it is NATURAL for a company that doesn’t change its methods to whither and die, and this is what we are witnessing now.
    The death of the large, centralized record label can only be a good thing. No more will society have to put up with music that is foisted on us with little or no say from society itself. Let us welcome in the new time, of small decentralized record labels, and perhaps even a time with no form of ‘record label’ at all, but a time when each artist simply uploads their work and is rewarded (or not) accordingly.

    P.S: The pirates have found a new ally in Barcelona and Calvin Harris (I kept on reading that as Calvin & Hobbs for some odd reason).
    P.P.S: “Shower of cunts” is one of the best expletives I’ve ever heard. Spread it, enjoy it, adapt it. Like how music/film et cetera should be!

  • viddo

    Beautiful music! I’ll have to look them up on itunes.

    I make music videos combining popular music and TV clips and I also watch a lot of other peoples music vids. If I never got into this or never got my friends into this we wouldn’t have discovered some of these bands.

    It’s great promotion for the artists.

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  • Muwasalat.com

    True. File sharing, Piracy = Piesharing

  • woof

    31 Jul 28, 2009 at 11:29 by eni_

    ‘shower of’ is a well used adage in the UK and has been for many many years…

    some of the more favored endings are

    shower of:
    1. B’stards
    2. Gits
    3. Cunts
    4. Pricks
    5. Fannies (Scottish)
    6. Bawbags (scottish)

    occasionally you may be lucky enough to hear them all utilised in the same exchange.

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  • Totoradio

    I think you forgot a tweet by Calvin Harris:
    “Fantastic use of time combating piracy by removing my own videos, what a fucking revelation. Fuck the Torrent sites, this is the way forward12:53 AM Jul 23rd from web “

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  • bleeper

    gay and crap…all these nobodies trying to excrete their foulness on me…go away and suck the corporate d1ck. You’re crap.

  • Reasoned Mind

    @23
    “So in you mind it is better NOT to sign with a record label to highlight your skills”

    Actually, the opposite. I see changes in the way business will be done, of course, but the advancing paradigm for digital artists of all kinds will prove frustrating at first, unsustainable through time and disastrous in the long run.

    Ever ask yourself where the wellspring of artists leaving their corporate homes has been these past 10 years? Where is the legion of artists furious with their lot and actively trashing the industry? Moby? lol.

    The number of solid musical acts making a living on music today without label support can be counted on less than ten fingers, and if you give the music away while selling Tshirts you are in apparel, with an attendant musical hobby.

    Instead of a relative few well deserving highly polished acts adored by zillions and supported by a legion of paid and experienced professionals working for a label, (think Radiohead or NIN), we are moving towards a kind of permanent amateur night hamstrung by a relative lack of cashflow and overwhelmed by a tsunami of genuine crap created by every person with an ego and an internet connection.

    We’ll have a zillion different poor quality options chasing so-called fans who have already shown they will take it for free or move on to the next free thing.

    Be careful what you wish for. Artists with the most savvy will always focus on their music alone and let other gifted professionals do the incredible mountain of work that constitutes all the rest of a pro music, recording and touring career. The labels aren’t going anywhere, in fact more and more they are becoming institutionalized with distributed fees on the table. An occasional exception will rise to the top now and then, but real fans have always put their money where their mouth is. The sheer indistinguishable clusterfuck of awful entertainment to choose from is the deserving legacy of an entire culture who were so selfish to demand it all at no cost to themselves, abandoning the artists to T shirts and table scraps.

    Time will reveal this. Nice legacy. Serves you so right.

  • Paladin of Truth

    Hahaha, that crazy Calvin Harris! ;) Sadly, deep understanding of copyright legislation does not seem to be one of his greatest qualities.

    As it so happens, the right to redistribute songs (or any other intellectual property, for that mater) does not belong necessarily to it’s creator. It belongs to the person or people who own those rights; if he sold those rights or partially relinquished it, then he no longer can “do as he wants” with it, so to speak. ;)

    In the case at hand, Mr. Harris conjointly owned the revenue rights of the song in question. So by freely distributing the song, he harmed the other parties’ right of revenue. In other words, he as in the wrong.

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  • grrrrrruffff

    @ 39

    eh?…so it only works in 1 direction does it? what about his rights to do as he pleases with HIS work, seems he has as much say to me if its a 50/50 ownership or more so as he actually produced it ( and i’m ONLY discussing this point) that it could be conjointly owned(?) in the 1st place

  • Anonymous

    Love youtube LoL

  • dave

    Let us please distinguish “Entertainment Industry” from “Copyright Industry” – The Entertainment Industry consists of artists, businessmen, and customers.

    The Copyright Industry consists of record labels and industry groups, which are operated by lawyers.

    The difference between artists, businessmen, and lawyers are analogous to handymen, plumbers, and, well, lawyers, as thus:

    Joe the Handyman: “I need a new water heater, and I know how to install it.”

    Joe the Plumber: “You need a new water heater, and I’ll charge you this much to install it”

    Joe, the Plumber’s Lawyer: “My client says you need a new water heater, and although you obviously know how to install it yourself, a new city ordinance requires that you hire a licensed plumber to do it for you.”

    A businessman does business by examining the market, and creating products and services to fill the needs of that market.

    A lawyer does business by examining his products and services, and manipulating the market to create a need. The entire purpose of the copyright industry is to decrease the supply of content, increasing the demand, and thus artificially inflating the value of a product that has no inherent value.

    Joe, the Record Label’s lawyer: “Despite my client’s product being infinitely reproducible, the law says that my client is the only person who is allowed to make such copies.So, although you are able to make a copy for yourself, you must hire my client to do it for you”

    Fuck. That. Shit.

  • Paladin of Truth

    @grrrrrruffff: Of course it does not work only one way! If it were so, copyright laws would be pretty unjust, wouldn’t it? ;)

    He has the same say in the actions to be taken as anybody else who owns the same percentage of the rights as he does. For simplicity, let us assume it’s 50/50%. That means he can only do anything with the song if the other party also agrees. If it does not, then he cannot do anything, since he only has 50% of say. The same way the other party is not allowed to freely distribute the song without his permission as well.

    And indeed, the fact it was he the one who created the song bears no weight in the matter — only possession of the rights do. Which is why copyright is so beautiful: it gives anybody the chance of owning anything — not just talented, creative people who can come up with things on their own. That is indeed the veritable pinnacle of democratic ideals applied to economics! ;)

  • Reasoned Mind

    All true, #41 and it is also very evenhanded to point out that the industry, however disliked and disrespected by pirates, has provided a reliable cash flow, writing arranging orchestration and recording support, pr and advertising, graphics and art, marketing in general, the enormous task of assembling and administering to touring, the list goes on and on and on. Also the legacy of financial support over 50 years is indisputable, allowing considerable talent to purchase a home and raise a family while enriching superstar talent to a degree beyond their wildest hopes. This is all fact and well documented.

    Pirates of course, try to regard this veritable phalanx of hardworking, talented support professionals as people who add nothing and leech upon the artists.

    The irony, of course, is that is precisely who the pirate has turned out to be.

  • John

    Is it just me, or does the only guy who looks genuinely thankful towards the fans the guy on the right – while the other two just want to plug there album/myspace/gigs?

    And by the way i hate ballards.

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  • reasoned mind is a fool

    Errr… I hear your useless rants and think to myself, is this person for real or what!!!!!!! All this nonsense about the industry is the only way to produce good music? Is that what you are saying? I think you mean, the quickest way to selling your soul and to give the industry its wages is to sign up with them. The industry controls all media outlets and therefore we are all prisoners on the wrong end of an extortion scheme. How can you be heard and seen, if they hold all the keys to all the doors? Lets be honest its extortion nothing more and nothing less. Now you will say no it isn’t you still have a choice, but you would be wrong. As bill hicks once said ” of course you have a choice, choose A. B. or C, theres your choice’s right there ”
    But thankfully all this control is slipping through their greedy little fingers, as the internet provides another means to find music that is not prefabricated by the industry. Music that bands want to be heard and are aware of the FACT, that if it’s good people will buy it.
    Oh and as for your comment that with no industry all the music will become amateur, I think we are way past that, cause most of todays radio / MTV and suchlike pump out utter garbage and the youth of today are being pumped full of this sh*t and almost brainwashed into thinking what is musically accepted nowadays. Someone was telling me recently that, the sh*tty brittany spears is on tour at the moment and she is miming the whole tour!!!! That sums up todays talent for me.
    Last but not least. TF is a pro file-sharing site. What the hell are you doing here? and don’t give any of that “am doing a study” pish. Why do you come here? Please piss off. You are clearly not welcome.
    And further more SHARE OR BE SHARED

  • grrrrrruffff

    @41

    Which is why copyright is so beautiful: it gives anybody the chance of owning anything …. no it does not, it only gives those that have capital in large amounts the ‘rights’ to ‘own’ anything

  • Reasoned Mind

    @44.
    “the industry is the only way to produce good music? Is that what you are saying?”

    Of course not. And I never even alluded to anything like that. I said the industry path is still infinitely better for savvy musicians and the facts are undeniable. You sound like a petulant child.

    When MySpace and FaceBook pages and Tshirt sales support recording artists financially the way industry has, pirates will make their point and every artist will follow. But they aren’t.

    In a decade this has not happened because there is no money for a true profession in your “model”, and that is why the industry still exists. $6-8 billion a year has gone missing to artists and their support staff of all kinds and until that kind of cashflow returns, the services and financial supports afforded new artists by industry will remain the standard of achievement, the holy grail of music, and law enforcement will back this up. You think you’ll be anonymous when you join the pedos on VPNs? This is simple economics. You haven’t hurt the fatcats one bit and you are morons to think you can.

    It’s the little guy you’ve fucked over for ten years, worse than any industry. You’ve screwed the assistant to the line producer who is now out of work, the guy who used to run the sound board in studio except now there is half the sales for recording, the lighting guy who can’t pay his mortgage anymore because there is less money to tour on, the graphic artists who are laid off and lose their health insurance because you take their work but refuse to pay for what you take. You think Mitch Bainwol is eating less rich food these days because of your noble actions? You think Cary Sherman no longer has a limo? You are ignorant in profoundly selfish and damaging ways and empowered ONLY by technology but not by any realistic set of facts. In every line of work, yours and mine included, people go where the compensation is—the MONEY because they HAVE TO. And what you’ve done to the families who work in the arts is criminal, even if your piracy is currently only “infringement.”

    I’ve been in occasional contact with the admins here and in the past they have publicly defended my privilege to be here. Why? Everything I post here is well reasoned and based on history and current fact. I’m better read up on this than most of you added together. The best any of you ever offer is “YOU CAN’T STOP US” which is precisely why your actions are compelling an online police state in the first place. Face it, if what you offer to digital artists is so much better than before, they’d be flocking to you and the industry would be swamped. Read the news sometime. That’s not what is happening at all.

    Instead, you hold Britney Spears as some sort of paragon of achievement while offering nothing of value to anyone but your own selfish selves. She’s not to my taste but millions clearly love her and you just sound like the fool here. Is it any wonder government and industry is prosecuting your arrogant lawlessness? When 6-8 billion a year more winds up in the hands of artists, your so called revolution will be complete. Until then you are wasters and liars.

    “Share or be shared” is another way of saying “I’m taking it for free, I’m giving it away to anyone who wants it for free, we are paying NOBODY for the work they’ve done to create this merchandise we want and there is nothing you can do about it.” Stay classy, hm?

    So in that regard your “philosophy” represents one of the lowest forms of “fan” ever in the history of recorded music or movies. A “fan” who hides behind privacy laws and takes it. Inevitably, you’ll be responsible for mandated ISP fees that will keep the industries institutionalized forever, without risk, without investment, with nothing but their catalog to coast on and their accountant to add it all up. You are stupid beyond human comprehension.

    But hey. You’ve got a harddrive full of free music and movies now, right? So it’s all good. For you.

  • billy bob

    The act of selling music is dying more and more as time passes. The way the music industry is going to make money will be from concerts and collectible stuff – t-shirts – coffee mugs and so on.

    Any fan that is interested in having a clean version of a song that they can feel comfortable knowing that the file is not corrupt will still goto places like the iTMS to buy legit copies.

  • in.cog.nito

    <3 calvin harris

  • reasoned mind is a fool

    As I said before and you obviously ignored the industry holds all the keys to all the doors and are currently trying to brainwash the youth of today. The industry, like you are trying to take the piss.
    How about telling us all how much money you spent this year on concerts? Ah bet you its the big 0.
    Please please just piss off somewhere else, all your philosophy is fundamentally flawed as in the rich get richer and the poor get poorer thats how a monopoly works and its not in the interest of art and media. Oh no its in the name of money and greed. Money might be your god, but its certainly not mine.

  • Reasoned Mind

    Money is an inherent part of the equation whether your “god” cares to acknowledge reality or not, and the list of live music concerts I’ve been to both here in the states and in Europe so far this year encompasses several major label stars and too many indies in small clubs to mention.

    You, sir, simply reveal you are on the poor gets poorer side of the spectrum. Fine. Some things just work out.

    I also take from the arts what I wish and I pay for every bit as intended for sale because that, THAT, is in the best interest of art and artists and media. PAYING THEM.

    If technology temporarily routed your living and left you with MYSpace and tshirts BECAUSE IT’S COPIED not PAID FOR you’d be justifiably calling your representatives. This is not like the buggy whip metaphor, not by a long shot. You still love and want the buggy whip, you’ve simply found a way to illegally copy the whips you want without paying the creator of the original, a very different paradigm. And you have the gall to say you are about the arts and media. Rubbish. At some point SOMEone must stand up for the artist who is no longer being paid properly for the digital goods you are pilfering.

    And “Piss off somewhere else” is exactly the kind of thoughtful forward reasoning we’ve come to expect from digital thieves and copyright infringers. Keep infringing and you’ll soon enough be a lot poorer.

    So pirate as you wish and take the consequences when they arrive, but don’t even try to kid me or anyone else here that your payment-free approach brings the creation of art what it needs to survive in the real world. Your “I will take whatever I want for free” attitude is unintended, cheap, selfish, disrespectful and illegal, and makes you part of a sad and ugly problem for digital artists everywhere.

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  • reasoned mind is a fool

    Of course you always fail to read properly like my first post that said “if its good then people will buy it”. I myself will first listen then pay, if its any good. Anyway you are all about politics. Politics to me is all about forcing opinions on someone else and that is what you are all about. Logic this the law that, support a dying industry support the artists is at the end of all your rants, when we all know the artist is being screwed half of the time.
    A big what if, is this, why cant people do things for the love of it and of course make a few dollars into the bargain but not ripping folks off. You know the fat cats are getting fatter and if you really think that the only way to motivate people is with money then you are delusional.
    By the way my god is freedom of all arts crafts and media. You got it I’m an Atheist.

  • theman

    Hey Barcelona & TF,

    Although I am a pirate, I thought both these videos was great. Since you made such great music, paired it with a beautiful video, and then actually spoke to me (per say) via youtube I went to the itunes store and picked up the song from the video. Even though I could just as easily have downloaded it. I probably wouldn’t purchase an actual CD because it’s expensive, but take note that if you’re ever coming through Portland that I’ll be in the crowd! A small show of support. Keep up the good work guys.

  • grrrrrruffff

    @ 52 Jul 28, 2009 at 23:51 by Reasoned Mind

    you often refer to paradigms as if they are a fix thing (perhaps a bit of re-enforcement divised by your employers seen as it suits them to be fixed – cant kill the cash cow now can we?), we as society create them and change them, such as file sharing and they become the new paradigms wether you like it or not

    you also state …. At some point SOMEone must stand up for the artist who is no longer being paid properly for the digital goods you are pilfering.

    hahaha thats rich (pun intended) seems to me the “pilfering” starts with your employer ….and as proven time and time again file sharing is proffitable for artists as well as other numerous gains that comes

    keep up the propaganda, we need people like you to remind us what the alternative is

  • Who me?

    This is the fourth band I’ve discovered this summer through YouTube. This particular video lead me to sample more of their songs to see if the CD is worth buying, which I really think it is and my wife agrees. I will be ordering when I get my next paycheck if there is anything left over after paying all the bills (I don’t use iTunes and never will). Actually I might just order two CD’s as it would make a good gift for a friend of mine whose birthday is coming up.

    I really don’t understand the irrational fear the entertainment industry has when it comes to YouTube. No self respecting pirate would use an FLV video file as an alternative to a quality audio file of sufficient bitrate. Bookmarking the video certainly wouldn’t suffice either as it may disappear at any time. Honestly, I must be completely blind because I cannot see how a YouTube video could ever constitute a lost sale. P2P I can sort of understand, but YouTube? Really? Wow, talk about crazy assed paranoia.

  • Jan Schotsmans

    As for “piracy”, I’m on the tail of information which shows that 2 mega movie leaks (DVD Screener leaks) that happend late 2008 and early 2009 were put in the wild deliberately by the owners of the content.

  • thelastambassadors

    For anyone living in the Bay Area, our band is playing with Barcelona next month. Tickets available at http://www.slimstickets.com/events/41648/Barcelona–meese

    You can check us out at

    http://www.facebook.com/thelastambassadors
    http://www.myspace.com/thelastambassadors
    http://twitter.com/TLAband

  • Mr. Briggs

    Is it just me, or are Reasoned Mind’s posts getting more emotional?

    That being said, without the extraneous capitalization and name-calling, his posts make a lot of sense. However, he should realize that this place is like 4chan – it will never change no matter how much you lecture it.

    @Reasoned Mind: I’m going to try to explain what these people are thinking, and perhaps how your arguments can make some more sense.

    They think that artists should just create music because it’s music, not because they want to earn oodles of money like current superstars. Some of these people have no idea what they’re talking about, but some others do. I have no doubt most artists think that way, but the industry thinks differently. It’s an industry, for crying out loud, of course they’re going to be in it for the money! (The industry people, not the artists.)

    The reason your arguments fail to their ears is because they believe you are arguing that artists are certainly in it for the money, and paying them will make the situation better because the money does go to the artists. And yet, it’s likely that most of the mega-popular artists aren’t in it solely for the money. They’re in it for the popularity (money is just one thing that follows), and the music industry is just one venue for that, because it has the capabilities of mass-production and advertisement on their side. It’s kind of like Windows – if crap is advertised well enough, it will sell well. I’m not saying that all mass-selling albums are crap, but what I am saying that if it is crap, nobody notices. That’s probably why the millions of people you mentioned like Britney Spears – a small percentage of them are genuine fans, while others are just following the crowd.

    What’s important about this is that the only reason the industry is “infinitely better” than doing it alone is because they have much better advertising. This gives some artists the illusion that the industry is the only way to go if you want your music to be popular, which, like you mentioned, it isn’t.

    Now, you might have it in your head that it’s certainly because of the financial support that artists choose the industry, but keep in mind that the industry only has good financial backing because – and even then, if – the sales are good. If it turns out to be a flop, guess who gets affected the most? It’s certainly not the industry – they have thousands of other artists in queue, waiting to be heard.

    You might, again, have it in your head that they can’t cancel it – it’s a binding contract! Before the industry will give an artist a contract, that artist must have prior experience. If not, then the contract will probably be provisional – subject to cancellation at any time by either party. The only way that those people will have prior experience will be to make music when they’re still out of the industry. That means performing in an independent band, or being an independent musician.

    Now, the people you mentioned, like the lighting guy and the sound-board person: they are in it for the money, but they’re part of the industry, while music artists are just an accessory. A lot of artists beg to be included in the industry just so that they can grasp at that spark of a hope to become popular, not realizing that they’ll probably be screwed over in the end. Please show a paper or some link to a website (or even a Google search string that will return results pointing to the aforementioned) showing that any group in the music industry has actually lost a significant number of jobs as a direct result of music piracy. (Not money, actual jobs. These people won’t believe that job losses result from money loss, given that they believe that the industry has too much of a windfall already.) No doubt there are dozens of examples, but there are dozens more examples where they have been unaffected or even improved despite or because of piracy.

    Correct anything in here that’s wrong; I need to refine my argument.

  • Mr. Briggs

    Argh, extensions to my points:

    The argument that formerly indie artists will invariably choose the industry is still wrong – it is completely the artist’s choice whether to join the industry or not. Doing so has no direct effect on how successful the artist is – there are hundreds of successful indie bands, and thousands of unsuccessful industry bands.

    These people are asking for a reform of the industry so that it’s no longer a proper industry – i.e. they’re no longer in it for the money, but instead, money is just a nice thing to have along with the popularity. While that’s all fine and dandy, there has to be a way to do it.

  • Mr. Briggs

    @Reasoned Mind: This might all just boil down to “I still don’t see how this justifies copyright infringement.” But, keep in mind that these people see no reason to stop copyright infringement just because it’s illegal – no more than George Washington and his comrades saw any reason to stop rebelling against the unfair taxes of Britain just because that was illegal.

    And they both had the honourable (to their minds) goal to reach.

  • Mr. Briggs

    But that’s just the music industry – in another corner, the movie industry isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. But that’s because in their case, an industry is actually required to make any movies with all those 3-D animations and special effects. Even then, it toes the line – there are many animation companies who release their products for free, just to show that they’re not in it for the money.

    However, with blockbuster movies, they already have a legitimate venue of income – theatres. Just like music bands have their live performances, movies will appear in theatres. It’s non-digital distribution that’s the most reliable in terms of income. For example, Spiderman 3 made about three times its production cost from box office sales alone.

    “But digital movie distribution would be more reliable if it weren’t for piracy!”

    And artists would be more reliable if it weren’t for the fact that they found out they were flops and got ripped off.

    P.S. Note that I have never once stated that pirates will buy music after downloading it because it’s the right thing to do – because it’s my belief that some of these pirates believe that the music itself shouldn’t cost anything – they pay out of appreciation, out of the fact that they like what the artists are doing, and want to support it. Buying the track is just a way to justify their donation. When it comes to movie pirates… well, I’m not sure what their excuse is, actually.

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  • Dude

    Haven’t some of the indie music band realized that if their music is not picked up by a major indie, like MUTE, it is because their music is DERIVATIVE, MUDDY and UNINSPIRED crap that sounds like any other more established artists out there.

    If you’re not popular because you basically suck, FIX YOUR SOUND before blaming others for your problems.

  • Reasoned Mind

    Mr. Briggs, you explain piracy as an illegal attempt to make possession a right, but payment an option. Were this applied evenly across the board, we’d have justice because then the mailman would no longer be salaried but live on the tips we leave for him in our mailboxes. The farmer would just HOPE to gather some income somehow. The mechanic would have to give repair away and hope someone pays him (for some reason) now and then. Applied evenly to all goods and services, it might be radical, but it would still be fair.

    Everyone has a product or service they sell for their living. You probably do, too. To make payment only at the discretion of the taker of goods and services, we’d also require a workable paradigm for everyone, and good reason why this is better. Pirates didn’t target the arts because of some grand free speech free information ideology, Mr. Briggs. Pirates targeted digital merchandise simply because it became large-scale possible. If cars could be cloned we’d be hearing the same specious justifications. We all know this is very true.

    But this movement gathers none of the respect of the American revolution because it is not across the board nor conceived in courage; it is narrowly contained to digital only where theft is quick and easy and secrecy is the way.

    We can also likely agree that more and more product and service will move to digital in time. When a thoughtful and irrefutable explanation can be advanced why only digital product and service–but not anything else– should suffer this institutionalized gutting of fairearned revenue while the damage to the families is perhaps sad but still proper, respect will follow. Until then pirates are just old fashioned crooks with a technical assist in a new exciting medium, and a just culture will do what it must.

  • Xile

    It seems to be getting more common for artists to have opposing views to those of the people who brand themselves as only acting in their best interests.

    it’s a shame they have no right to be angry when they have signed away all of their rights to everything they have created as a band [and the sale and distribution thereof] to their record label / distributor etc for the benefit of being publicised and making a royalty, with this kind of set up surely it is possible for the artist them self to be punished for burning his own music and giving it to a friend?

    i know a few small artists none of them are rich, most of them have quite a few fans [relatively ;)], all of them are just happy to make music

    how many people that you know, your self included, legally own enough music to fill up your mp3 player?

    things just aren’t right :(

  • Mr. Briggs

    @64: Thanks for the response – I hope this will actually get somewhere. Perhaps the pirates (including me for the time being, sadly) will actually come up with a reason like you specified.

    But I’ve been thinking about how to make my response a little better, and here’s a point that was lurking in my mind but completely unrelated to your response to my post.

    I think my definition of “the industry” is skewed – I don’t take musicians to be part of the industry nearly as much as, say, game developers in the game industry. But that’s only because I have a skewed mind – I believe the industry is everybody that’s in it for the money.

    I think the MAFIAA (yeah, I’m talking both the Music and Film Industry Association of America and the Members Against Freedom of Information Association of America) is going in completely the wrong direction with their advertising against piracy, and you bring up why they are.

    You bring up a very strong point that it’s not just the musicians who suffer from piracy, but also the people in the industry itself – but, I’d have to amend this to say that it’s not the musicians who suffer, but mainly the industry people. Like I explained before, I don’t count musicians as part of the industry because they’re not in it chiefly for the money. (If they are, tell me.) So the claim that “musicians won’t make music if you keep on pirating” is false. They may stop distributing it as widely because the industry people are losing their money, but I don’t think there’s any major example of a musician that refused to keep on making music because his sales were being hurt.

    So if you want to get the real message across of why piracy hurts the music industry, you need to stop citing musicians as a principal victim. Musicians don’t suffer because of piracy – the industry does.

  • plasticpimp

    Art shouldn’t only be for those with a fat wallet. Throw some concerts and we will show up.

  • Mr. Briggs

    @67: The point is, it isn’t just for people with fat wallets. Nowadays, you can get good music on Newgrounds. That’s saying something.

  • Lulz

    I download when I hear a good song on a video, not buy unless they need the money.

    – Never Pirate Games -

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