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TextBook Torrents Turns The Final Page and Closes Down

From relative obscurity, Textbook Torrents, the world’s largest BitTorrent index of textbooks, found itself in the world spotlight during July 2008 and was forced to close down by its host. The site returned weeks later, growing massively in the process, but now, just a couple of months on, the site has closed for good.

textbooktorrentsQuietly and with little fuss, January 2007 saw the birth of TextBook Torrents, a relatively small site initially, offering a BitTorrent tracker dedicated to the indexing of textbooks. In 6 months the site had accumulated 10,000 members. Just 3 months later, the number of users had doubled to 20,000 and by January 2008 the membership doubled again to an impressive 40,000. By the end of June 2008, almost 70,000 members were registered at TextBook Torrents and more and more people were becoming aware of its existence.

On July 1st 2008, Jeff Young, a writer with The Chronicle of Higher Education, wrote an article entitled Textbook Piracy Grows Online, Prompting a Counterattack From Publishers. The article focused on TextBook Torrents and it quickly gained traction after being picked up by Slashdot and subsequently, many other mainstream publications. In this explosion of publicity the site’s membership grew rapidly, but almost inevitably, the anti-piracy hawks began to circle.

Within days, Textbook Torrents’ host and domain registrar received takedown requests. At the time, Geekman, the admin of the tracker told TorrentFreak: “We received a DMCA notice from Pearson Education a week or so prior, which we complied with, but it was a group of publishers that contacted our host.” On July 5th Dreamhost suspended Geekman’s account and refused to speak with him and it took a week to even transfer the domain. It took a month for the site to return.

“I want to see the textbook industry change such that we are no longer needed,” Geekman told TorrentFreak when we asked him in early August about his motivation to bring back the site.

Now, just 2 months later, visitors to the TextBook Torrents site this week were faced with the grim reality that the site has gone. “TextBook Torrents won’t be coming back,” Geekman told TorrentFreak. “I’ve been at it for two years and it has been an awesome two years, but i’m ready to step back and hopefully allow somebody else to rise up in our place.”

Geekman told us that he felt that when it became clear to the copyright owners that simple threats to the site and its host wouldn’t be sufficient to close down the tracker, he himself became the next logical target: “We got word from several credible sources that there was a lawsuit in the works against myself personally,” he explained.

Of course, when anyone invests a huge amount of work into a project, there will be some pain to endure when it comes to an end, and Geekman is no different. “It does hurt. Textbook Torrents was my baby and one of my proudest projects, both personally and certainly as Geekman. At the same time, running the site had become very demanding. Since the attention last summer the site nearly doubled in size in 4 months from 60,000 to over 100,000 members. In all honesty, it was all I could do to keep up with media interview requests.”

Geekman told us that he was sorry to have to shut down the site without notice, but in the absence of others immediately stepping up to take over the running of the site, he had no alternative. He also said that he was disappointed that nobody stepped in with a replacement site when TextBook Torrents was down for 3 weeks in August, but hopes that someone will do so now.

When asked if book publishers have learned anything from the whole affair, Geekman said he doubted that: “Intellectual property corporations are notorious for missing the point. Like I’ve said before, we were out to make a statement, to give out as much free stuff as possible, and I think we’ve made that statement – perhaps not as loudly as we could have given another few months and a little more perseverance – but certainly people have heard, and are talking. Piracy will never be sustainable for the textbook industry, but perhaps this is the first step towards a more sustainable model in the future.”

When a torrent site goes offline, especially when it’s quite a quick shutdown, it’s inevitable that users get nervous that somehow they could be implicated if the site’s logs fall into the wrong hands. However, ex-users of the site have absolutely nothing to fear in this respect: “Textbook Torrents files, including logs and backups, have been permanently removed from all servers where they were stored,” notes Geekman, “We no longer have any data on the site or its users.”

All donations made to the site have been secured for the possibility of mounting a legal defense, should the need arise. However, once it’s established that Geekman is in the clear, whatever money is left over will be donated to a textbook or education-related non-profit organization. For his part, Geekman says he will ceremonially take the last $12 for himself, to cover the only thing he ever paid for on the site – the domain registration.

“I’m an activist, I’ll freely admit it but I believe activism is about a lot more than parading around holding a sign,” Geekman told TorrentFreak. “There are far more effective ways to get peoples’ attention.”

There can be no denying that TextBook Torrents did just that.

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  • Nillerus

    Damn! I only found out about this site a few months ago (through TorrentFreak no less) and have been using it on a daily basis since then.

    Thanks for the good work Geekman. I sincerely hope someone will fill the void.

    (DAMNDAMNDAMN!)

  • edf

    Alas,sad stuff.

    Great site btw, I loved the philosophy section.

  • s2pid

    Hey I remember this one.I downloaded a pdf file on electronics from this here site.
    GEEKMAN i think books will help me understand better thing i never learned.TextBook Torrents did just that.Now i have to go back to downloading this persons Upload http://thepiratebay.org/user/BoomBox3/

    So Long Now.

  • Bauer

    R.I.P :(

  • iiZNZNZNZ!!

    Hey you turned the final page but did not close the book cover… does this mean that the story isn’t over yet? :P

  • mister playboy

    Wish I had known about this before… Hopefully, something will come about to replace it.

  • Shak Eel Oh Neal

    On a morality note, isn’t it nice to see people pirating educational tools, rather than smut and gore? (i have nothing against pirating smut and gore however.)

  • John

    And yet another one bites the dust!

    http://www.torrentfly.org

  • Rekrul

    It’s nice to see the textbook companies admit that their profits are more important than people’s educations.

  • Anonymous

    thank god there’s still bitme :)

  • :(

    RIP.

  • Kebert Xela

    I love how capitalism is not compatible with the free spread of knowledge. What a shame.. we’ll have to do something about that

    • Knightmixer

      This is by no mean representative of capitalism. Patent and copyright laws are governmental creations. The true target of your ire should be directed towards all forms of statism (socialism, communism, fascism, marxism, et al…)

      • Bigkahkistan

        How do you think such laws come into being? There's a significant amount of corporate lobbying going on to make sure that these copyright laws are enforced hard and fast. Ultimately , the problem is that the rich have the ability to bend government services towards their will.

  • Anonymous

    damn, this site was so badly needed. thanks geekman for all your great work, i was visting the site on a daily basis.

    ex-tbt users should try to get organized and think of alternatives right away. this must not be the end of textbook piracy.

  • The Crusty Handkerchief

    At least they decided to close after I finished uni & not before :P

    It was a good site though.

  • nnsa

    Gutted, it was a belting site.
    It’s sad the way society/publishers excludes the poor (who can’t afford books and to digress for a moment afford outrageous university fees) from gaining knowledge & education, all because the publishers want to use antiquated/outdated business models that don’t work anymore and don’t understand that sales are not the only way to generate revenue.
    I personally feel this is more important than the normal torrent/sharing fight surrounding games, films & music as they are predominantly entertainment which we can all ultimately live without, but this is education and knowledge that is being restricted. This can only have a long term detrimental impact on the very society/publishers that are working to stop it.
    Many many thanks for everything Geekman I owe you a beer or two and all the best for the future.
    Rant over.

  • Knusper

    I hope you cover a story when a new textbook torrent site opens…

  • The Benevolent Buccaneer

    @ #15 nnsa:

    In addition to the extortionate prices of textbooks, the fees (in UK) are going up as well. When I started it was around £1250 / year, now they can charge up to £3000 / year (last time I checked). It’s going back to elitism where only well off will be able to afford an education, which is completely wrong, everyone should have the right to an education.

  • HelloWorld;

    Damn I want my supply of free books! DAAAAAAAAAMN!

  • Josh

    Maybe they could somehow transfer all the torrent files to TPB and get TPB to create a textbook section… that would be pretty kickass

  • Bart

    @19 yeah that would be a start. but tpb is full of shitty books while tbt was really about high quality stuff. i’m not interested in more “physics for dummies” stuff, tbt had serious academic textbooks that students could use in university.

  • Anonymous

    @Josh
    This is the problem with private trackers, a lot of them get protective and disable things like the DHT flag. Completely useless hoarding.

  • hawkinbj

    Sad to see them go; was a great little site :/

    Best of luck to the staff there.

  • Pingback: TextBook Torrents closes down | TeleRead: Bring the E-Books Home

  • pink panther

    All other index sites (isohunt etc) list textbooks – why is this site such a big deal?

  • nnsa

    @17 The Benevolent Buccaneer
    I totally agree, funny enough I spent 5 years working in a large British university. What I saw is that from the university point of view it is not about academic excellence, it’s more about getting bottoms on seats to generate funds (I will admit this is not always the case with some university’s).
    I understand that the fees are crippling for all but the wealthy and when you add the cost of text books…
    I saw many students get stressed and depressed due to money issues and this would understandably impact on the students work.
    I would go one further on your comment “everyone should have the right to an education” by adding: that is free at point of use (sorry TF for digressing again).
    I personally would often go to the library only to find the book I wanted was out or they didn’t have it, not a problem with tbt.
    This is why I commend Geekman for all his hard work and I am gutted he had to call it a day and is now facing legal action.
    @20 Bart
    You provide a good reason why tpb should get involved.

  • Lollypop

    @ 23, due to the range and depth of the books. Most books we’re “advanced” for degree students and above.

  • Killer Tree

    If you live in America, but you get a host in Sweden, are you in the clear for hosting a torrent site (At least until TPB issues get resolved)?

  • God

    Textbooks are the ultimate form of censorship.

    The cost, the availability… Its all a part of the system.

    Limiting freedom of information. You can ban textbooks, you can burn them, you can stop publishing them. You can raise the cost until noone is willing to pay for them.

    Its bullshit. I pay over 500 a semester, and I can afford it. What about those who cannot?

    ebooks are the way of the future, and they dont’hurt your back, and easy resources to look things up.

  • Picallo

    Well i remember when i was a chemistry student the only chance to get an advanced book was to make a copy on a local copystery. After a couple of years, its wasnt allowed to copy more than the 10% of a book so we split the copys between different persons and copysteries.

    In some cases, we had to use a book written by the teacher, and surpringsily there werent any copy avaliable except from one who was in the office of that teacher.

    Sadly the internet wasnt so developed as today ( i had the first contact with internet when i was studying abroad my 4th year).

    Now you can download almost every textbook from rapidshare (or a similiar service) if you know how to use google.

    Of course a tracker like TextBooks torrent make your life easier.

    I remember that some advanced books had huge cost (like 300-400 € from year 1997) so nobody could aford it.

    And i could continue explaining more histories like this for hours…

  • J

    In other news, engaging blatantly illegal activity is hard. May even get you sued.

    Good riddance.

  • anonymous

    hey all i have a kickass sit that no not a torrent site it uses alot of upload host sites like ifile and rapidshare etc, but it has 100s of thousands of ebooks and yes alot of textbooks as well..
    goto…
    http://www.gigapedia.org

    Enjoy! and spread the word…..

  • FormerPatron

    I don’t know if Geekman will see this, but I’d like to thank him for the great site and the materials he made available to us poor college students. I hope he’s got plans for something similar (if not bigger and better) in the future!

  • Jesse Woultrup

    What a pisser, boy I sure miss the web of the “old days” where everything was fair game. Regulation truly SUCKS

    http://www.privacy.de.tc

  • stepberg

    This is a shame. It was my favorite torrent site and I now it got closed before it even really started. Especially the economics/business books section could have been improved a lot in the future. :((((

  • Meh

    I think this ment the difference between some students being able to afford college, instead of working at mcdonalds.

    Thanks Copyright holders, you just held back X amound of students from achieving a education, hope you like your future.. oh wait you wont have one.

  • me&myself

    personally i want to thanks Geekman for his hard work, i will miss Art Section in TextBookTorrent, gotta find replacement site, anybody know torrent site that has content like TextBookTorrent?

  • Anon

    The copyright people are no better than the corporate pigs who are to blame for the economic crisis.

  • binklespup

    I wanna start a forum, in honour of TBT and Geeks, im gonna link to torrents on The Pirate Bay & Demonoid and host in Spain where this kinda thing is legal.

    Whos with me?

    http://www.campusbookstoretorrents.co.cc/

  • weeman

    Gutted!
    Loved this tracker, help me through uni.
    Why victimise this tracker when loads list textbooks.

    http://www.lucidvain.co.nr

  • Anonymous

    Stop cutting down cute innocent trees and give as free textbooks online!!! :’(

  • Anonymous

    “It’s nice to see the textbook companies admit that their profits are more important than people’s educations.”
    ————————————–

    wake up from your idealistic fantasy world. if you invest money in something there is a reasonable expectation to make it back with a little bit of profit so as to continue investing money in future projects. economics 1-0-fucking-1.

    you saying the book publishers should be doing it for free is no less stupid than me saying YOU should work for FREE.

  • Cc

    Before anyone accuse book company , I wish to speak for them . even though I dislike MafiAA , I wouldn’t want to group them together .

    due to my work ,I come to know a lot things about book.

    a book company take a lot more risk of loss compare to movie and music company . why?
    1. cost of making a book
    2. author fees
    3. to many competitor

    the risk:
    1. just because one author manage to sell millions copy in first book, doesn’t mean the second book will also sell that well .

    2. risk of publish new authors works .

    to make short , every days in book business is like in casino gamble your fortune . sometime you hit jackpot but mostly you done .

    so do not think them as bad as the mafiAA

  • kwawe

    i don’t really care about sysop saying
    he is hanging up. all i know is another textbook tracker will soon emerge.
    but how soon i don’t know,but is my hope it doesn’t keep long.

  • ohhh

    OMG.. I can’t believe it’s game over for TBT :((( I loved it !
    what a shitty world we live in..
    I hope,in the future, somebody will link to some other tracker like this.. .

  • AtLanta

    Prediction: The value of a bitme invite goes way up.

    RiP TBT, first OiNK and now you..hopefully a nice replacement that is semi-private springs up

  • aldehyde

    textbook torrents and other sites have allowed for an incredibly large amount of educational material to begin making the rounds on the internet.

    while I do understand the publishers’ position I think that scans of textbooks will do a lot more good on the internet than bad. I don’t have enough money to buy all the books that I’ve viewed as pdfs and I view it like a library book when comparing the utility of a pdf to that of a hardcover book. You can only read so much and I’m not making a profit off of the books, I wouldn’t have bought it in the first place but if I do find a really awesome book I would be inclined to buy a copy for myself. People can use these textbooks to expose themselves to material they would otherwise not encounter.

    Its tough to strike a balance with copyright but I hope that publishers will look at the whole picture and try to learn from this.

  • xman323

    great site
    sad thing what happened
    sadly publishers care about profit than educating people.
    hope any site fills the gap

  • Roze

    “allow somebody else to rise up in our place”
    Hopefuly

    “Geekman told us that he felt that when it became clear to the copyright owners that simple threats to the site and its host wouldn’t be sufficient to close down the tracker, he himself became the next logical target”

    You know what? Perhaps we ought to be taking revenge. Threaten the copyright holders personally. Let them know how people feel about this. This war must be made more symmetric by starting to use their own tactics against them.

    Roze
    http://www.28chan.org/fs/ <- Anonymous file-sharing bulletin board

  • kph59

    Damnit… well, I did download some great torrents regarding hardware and software, so I’m not going to complain, although I am bummed out it’s gone. I had high hopes for it.

  • ha

    Militant torrenters? Now there’s a thought(give the gov a reaon to incorporate anti-terror laws, brilliant). Most are so shit scared their ISP’s will take away their internets for dowload teh illegal warez that I doubt any of them would have the balls to make a public stand. The PETA of filesharing? Aint gonna happen.

  • Common Sense

    How dumb did the organizers of TBT had to be to host their site in a nation or with a company that would comply with the copyright owning assholes? Why couldn’t the organizers have hosted in the site in a neutral or hostile nation, like somewhere in Europe or in Russia, etc. … kinda like how Demonoid and TPB have been doing it.

  • Anonymous

    I bet Geekman is reading this. He’s thinking “yes random person I do not know, I am reading this!”

  • Ian Cognito

    If there is any place more worthy of the subversion of copyright through efforts such as this, it is education.

    Entertainment is entertainment, but free education improves the whole world.

    This is sad.

  • stepberg

    common sense: that was not the problem. they did in fact switch to a torrent friendly host after the bad experience with dreamhost. =(

  • Dude

    @ 42

    No, the book publishers have it MUCH easier than either the record companies OR the movie studios.

    Creating a dead tree copy of a text is CHEAP. See lulu.com for the “expensive” type of one-off printing, which is still relatively cheap.

    Text books also carry virtually NO “risk” for the publisher – they have a guaranteed audience that HAVE to read the book to pass the exam (and maybe even learn something as well). The fact that they have this captive market means they can abuse it, which is why you see textbooks that cost $450.

    To actually WRITE a text book, the only real input is time – the author has to sit down, research the subject and compile all the info into something cohesive. No multi-million dollar salaries for actors, no expensive film gear, no months of special effects work, no massive advertising campaign, just a few people and their laptops.

  • Jill K

    The site wasn’t very good but he tried to make a difference. All of those books can be found scattered around at other places.

  • jereslack

    If any one has a bitme.org invites …..or any where good but private….. i have literally access to 150 plus textbook torrents from our beloved site that is no more…..best wishes to geekman……. to upload some where good…..

    satanshollow@hush.com
    satanshollow at hush dot com

  • macfan

    I just used Textbook Torrents two days ago because no other torrent site had the seeders for a solutions manual I needed for an exam the next day. What do I do now? RIP Textbook Torrents!

  • UraPhake

    30 Oct 10, 2008 at 17:50 by J (Jackass)
    In other news, engaging blatantly illegal activity is hard. May even get you sued.

    Good riddance.
    =-=-=-=

    More important is that when you and people like you die, the world raises a collective sigh each time and also says, “Good riddance.”

  • dan

    Since Are Economy Is Not doing good right now why not buy stuff before inflation goes up?

    Free Shipping and great deals.

    http://bsolum.avonrepresentative.com/

  • 1/f))

    I used it daily, all the time. Then it stopped loading two days ago….now it all makes sense.

    SHIT!!

    Fucking copyright whores.

  • Jock

    Linda says your always welcome here Geeks

  • jq

    What we really need is an ecology that produces more open access textbooks — textbooks that could legally be made available on line for free. There are a few good ones. See opentextbook.org and maketextbooksaffordable.org.

    How can we make production of OA textbooks economically viable?
    Maybe contributions from authors who want name recognition? Maybe some way to have advertising in textbooks? Maybe government subsidies for production?

  • misssue

    Geekman,Jeff and the rest, I will miss you all. I loved the forum and had fun.

  • Anonymous

    RIP TBT

  • Anonymous

    @62 jq

    HOLY WOW! logic, rationale, and above all, VIABLE suggestions for CHANGE, in a forum predominantly filled with narcissistic pseudo-intellectual, budding socialist fourteen year olds who don’t, as a group, have more than a handful of worthwhile opinions between them.

    color me both surprised and impressed.

    even if you are a pirate, we need more of your kind around here. a pirate with the balls to pose possible answers to tough questions rather than just hiding behind juvenile rhetoric and the usual unrealistically idealistic, rooted-in-nothing, poetic waxings that make up of the majority of these comments…

  • Anonymous

    @42: Cc

    Your arguements are so, so flawed.

    For one the costs of producing the most expensive books are nowhere near the cost of producing most of the cheapest, low budget films.

    Secondly the risk of a feature film not being profitable are much greater than a textbook not being so.

    Would anybody here running a line of “textbooks should be free and legally so” actually work for nothing ? I highly doubt it – if you would, then get out there and DO SOMETHING about it.

    I like stealing textbooks and depriving the author and publishers of their profit because I obtain it for free.

  • rob

    60 Oct 11, 2008 at 02:48 by dan

    Since Are Economy Is Not doing good right now why not buy stuff before inflation goes up?

    Free Shipping and great deals.

    http://bsolum.avonrepresentative.com/

    ————————-

    yeah, i’m going to buy books from someone that doesn’t know the difference between “are” and “our”

    too bad about tbt though. at least i still have bitme.

    @satanshallow, i only need about 1 gig of upload credit to be a power user so if i get in in the next couple weeks i will try to remember to get you and invite.

  • superman

    Reading books through Monitor is feggish anyway. Nowadays monitors aren’t that advanced yet to lock your eye to some object/text.

  • dev

    RIP tbt, it was a great site. While publishers do need to be paid to continue to make the model for producing textbooks economicly viable, this is another napster. I am not able to see, and scanning textbooks is a waiste of my time. I’ve looked for legal means to purchase electronic editions of books and there are few. Publishers need to offer online editions of books at a reasonable price and sites like tbt will hopefully drive this mesage home. Here’s to tbt 2.0, or at least established sites making piracy of educative materials as much a priority as shitty hollywood movies
    next semester will truely be a pain in the ass with tbt’s demise

  • Farenheit451

    My wife and I used to publish a publication. Our dream was to find an end to the daily drudgery of crap work and make a living off our passion.

    We invested our saved cash in this business instead of putting a small deposit on a home for us and our two toddlers.

    We continued to hold down our day jobs to survive.

    We spent countless months researching our topics, editing, consulting and working around the clock just to make the business fly.

    We got screwed by agents, publishers, printers, distributors and retail outlets. Which is how the print business hierarchy works – Authors (the true copyright owners) come last.

    Eventually we self-published. The public loved the publication, we received praise regularly – phone calls, letters. It was the content that was key.

    And yet, we lost every cent and every hour of the many thousands we invested… and then some.

    Torrents are great … but don’t ever delude yourself that the content is free. There’s always a price paid by someone, somewhere.

    Sometimes it’s a very high price.

  • Anonymous

    instead of having a lot of textbooks why not let the knowledgeable people collaborate on one site like wikipedia but with better moderation.. i’m sure there are already tons of sites like this.. i think google are doing it with medical advice or something.

  • Anonymous

    That sucks!! :(

  • Anonymous

    There will be a site to take it’s place. It is in the works, please wait for more details.

  • Takashi

    Good, The owner (Geekman) was a fucking douche.

  • QwertyKey

    It’s one thing when sites catering to entertainment get shut down, but it’s a whole different thing when sites for education get shut down.

    I hope we do see another one soon. It’s hard to believe that we’d see more agressive protection from Textbook Publishers than the MPAA and RIAA. Gotta get a non-US host.

  • PJdDJ

    Very sad… I just found it last week…

    Where do we go now?

  • h33t

    if you are looking for books or a tracker for your torrents

    http://www.h33t.com/tocat.php?id=6

    the index is public and fully moderated

    enjoy

  • h33t

    sry for the double post

    the request section is in the forum for those needing assistance locating that special publication

  • Jamesy

    T_T I really liked that site.

  • Anonymous

    should check out netbks.com the only problem is everything is split into rapidshare pieces.

  • Janet Vandenabeele

    I rarely put my whole or real name on comment sites, but this is such an important issue to me I don’t care if the textbook companies know who I am or not.

    It’s a real crime when textbooks cost $200 and are something you’ll only need for a few weeks. Even if you keep your books, they’re out of date pretty quickly. And when you have to buy 5 or 6 of them each semester …

    Sure, people are paying but what does that mean? If you’re lucky enough to be young and underwritten by the ‘rents, well, they’re paying. A lot of them are cashing in their retirement money to do that. I know, because I work in a retirement advisor’s office and that’s a sizeable chunk of what I do these days.

    If you’re like me, trying to get an advanced degree to get a job like the one you got downsized out of, these outrageous prices are nonsensical. I’m borrowing up past my eyeballs. And don’t tell me I can’t buy virtually the same book in the “international” edition for half the price or less!

    I found out about TextBook Torrent too late and it didn’t have any of the books I needed this semester anyway, bec. all the books I needed were relatively new.

    So I say to the textbook industry: You’re WORSE than the RIAA, and that’s not a complement, believe me! I wholeheartedly support ANY and ALL means of getting around your usurious pricing. If any of my books show up on LimeWire, I dare you to stop me from downloading it.

    No textbook is worth more than $50. No excuses. Fix your system or go down in flames. Get bailed out by the government lawyers, like the RIAA and people will STILL find a way around it. Someone will come along like iTunes and give us a cost-effective alternative you can’t get around. And not a minute too soon.

  • knownassociate

    Geeks, You’ve done a heros’ job. My best to you and Mittens,take a wello-earned break.

    And there are rumors, and rumors of rumors of a new site just starting being discussed in different fora.

  • mike b

    Well the only thing missing is:

    a) how do you start a torrent site?
    b) can’t safe torrent sites like Pirate take over?

    Anyone know?

  • Keehlzver K. Schultez

    Really sad about the site. I love to find many books from Mathematic section, and now! It’s gone.

    Thank you for all stuff and esteemed admin.

  • dh

    Criminal activity is criminal, no matter the cause. The author deserves to be rewarded for her effort, the publisher for taking the risk on the book, the distribution system for hauling the books, the bookstore for providing the easy access. Piracy is no more than criminal activity, depriving everyone in the chain their reward for effort expended.

  • sdc

    I’ve worked for a few publishers and I think it is important to distinguish between the large, corporate publishers (who have ridiculous expectations for the level of profit they should achieve and who shamelessly price gouge students) and university presses (who rarely make money at all). University presses need the sales of each book they publish just to keep doing what they do. No one is getting rich or taking home big salaries. In the interest of full disclosure, I will tell you that I work at a university press. We are doing what we can to sell books at an affordable price.

  • dp

    The average price a publisher sells to the bookstore at is approximately $75. That is after paying an advance to an author, paying for an editor to work with the author, digitizing the files, printing six semesters books, warehousing them for the three years, distributing them to colleges and universities around the world, taking back into inventory all that aren’t sold and pulping those that remain unsold. Where is the unrealistic profit in this model???

  • Pingback: Free Culture News » TextBook Torrents closes

  • sdc

    Okay, let’s do the math. If the publisher is getting $75 a book, and has printed 10,000 copies (for the sake of argument–this would make it an upper-division text), that means the publisher is getting $750,000 in revenue. Let’s do the subtraction:

    $750,000
    - 75,000 (10% royalty)
    ———–
    $675,000
    -100,000 (production at $10 a copy)
    ———–
    $575,000
    -100,000 (overhead)
    ————
    $475,000
    - 47,500 (promotion)
    ————-
    $427,500

    So far it looks like they’ve invested $275,000 and made a profit of $475,000. That seems pretty good. Even if you want to add another $75,000 for warehousing, sales reps, and parties at conferences, that still leaves a profit rate of just over 100%, which seems pretty high to me. Most businesses don’t have that high a rate of return.

  • Anonymous

    I’d just like to point out that textbooks are a FORCED purchase, can’t pass the class without the book. Also, the publishers re-releasing books each year with a change of cover and not much else only have to ship as many as will be purchased by checking class sizes. I’d also like to say that the majority of my books are $150+ not $75, now perhaps this is just me, but that seems like FAR too much. Anyway, eBooks can not, as of yet, replace the paper back. I mean some people can spend hours reading a monitor but not everyone. The times I used TbT I was using the eBook as a supplement, not a replacement. Anyway, these are just my thoughts on it, and I’m an advocate of free information. If the book is good enough, I’ll go out and buy it, and there have been very few textbooks that meet that criteria, yet I am FORCED into purchasing them. If the publishers see more free books circulating maybe they will have more reasonable prices, or at least books that last till something really NEEDS to be revised.

  • As An Industry Slowly Dies…..

    As a member of TT, am I the only one wondering why Geekman left himself in a position of vulnerability in the first place? Common sense security practice nowadays for running a torrent site involves a couple of givens.

    1. You don’t register a domain or get a host using your real personal info. They can’t sue if they can’t find who you are.

    2. Never, I repeat, NEVER use hosting or a server based within U.S. territory.

    This site should have been hosted anonymously and located in an area where Geekman would have had the luxury of telling the publisher’s to go f**k themselves.

    But what’s done is done. I’d like to express my thanks to Geekman for all the effort and hard work he put into running the site. Both the site, and Geekman himself, were always a class act from beginning to end.

    R.I.P. Textbook Torrents. :(

    And a word to the publishers…….My scanner will be getting quite the workout over the next month as I create new scans of your latest overpriced offerings. You bozos need to learn that you while you might kill a site, you don’t kill us. Strike one down and 100 will rise to replace it. :)

  • Kevin

    It’s a damn shame. Textbook-Torrents was one of the best trackers around in terms of getting extremely rare and interesting material quickly. I sent Geekman an email wishing him the best in whatever he goes on to do. I hope another good textbook tracker springs up soon.

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  • sdc

    As An Industry Slowly Dies….., I would urge you not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. As a university press publisher who spends a fair amount of time insuring that books are decently written and well-made, I feel that university presses do price to have their books bought and not to make a huge profit. We’re the kind of folks who need people to buy books because if they don’t we’ll disappear and take at least some of our skills with us. And for people who only buy books for classes that may be okay, but for those of us who read other stuff, our absence might actually be felt (not to appear self-promoting or anything).

  • As An Industry Slowly Dies…..

    @sdc

    I will take your statement at face value and assume for the sake of argument that your company is one of the more responsible university presses that does actually put much effort into keeping their product updated and careful attention to a high standard of quality. However, the majority of commercial textbook publishers do the bare minimum and force newly “updated/revised” editions on students solely for the sake of the bottom line. When the successful completion of a course is dependent on the mandatory purchase of the latest edition textbook despite said latest edition being virtually indistinguishable from the previous volume, then perhaps you can begin to understand why the people in the educational chain least able to afford it (the students) consider a $200+ price tag nothing short of a publisher rape of already stretched and inadequate resources. Multiply this scenario by many courses and the problem is crystal clear to all who have had to endure this shameless profiteering. Harassment of your customer base through petty legal threats does not put the money in their pocket to pay the inflated prices charged by many. If four people each put in $50 to buy one copy of a $200 textbook and then share it why is it so outrageous for some to use a digital copy if they can’t afford a physical one?

    You may feel that your industry “prices to have their books bought and not to make a huge profit”, but I assure you that that is not the view of those who are your customers. Your industry exists in a rather unique niche of the publishing world in that rather than having to compete and provide quality AND value (read=reasonable price) like mainstream publishers, you cater to a captive audience whose academic success or failure is directly tied to the required purchase of your product. It is quite apparent to most people that textbook publishers long ago realized this and ever since have exploited that fact by pricing at a standard totally in opposition to mainstream publishing.

    I’m sure you would like to point out that a university press does not sell titles in the numbers that mainstream books do, and you’re absolutely correct. But $150, $200, $300 for a single hardback textbook? Your numbers sold may be lower than mainstream books but your costs of publishing/printing are in no way proportional to your sales prices. If you say they are, I will be happy to direct you to several vanity presses who will be happy to print high quality hardbacks in small numbers for a tiny fraction of what you charge. Your industry could easily cut retail prices in half and still be very profitable. But instead price gouging and outright banditry seems to be the order of the day.

    So, if you are one of the minority of text publishers who do act responsibly by putting out a quality product at a FAIR and REASONABLE price, then I wish you well. I am not anti-business nor anti-profit. I am, however, irrevocably and steadfastly opposed to those who would take advantage of their industry’s unique position to pillage those who are, in most cases, struggling financially as it is to complete their education. And for THAT segment of your industry, I have no pity.

  • NSEWA

    I got a few of my texts from last semester and I come back today that the site is dead? well textbook companies need to make money but I wished some kind of agreement could be reach so I don't have to waste 500 bucks in books that change every edition. Thanks for the help while it lasted

  • Sir Cob

    Never got to use it – but you do know that this means that this means that publishers will come out with new editions and more expensive prices to make up for there "calculated" losses.

    Sucks for us…

  • http://www.cheap-textbooks.com Cheap-Textbooks Team

    It is that textbooks are so expensive that students had to turn to file sharing sites. Look at the drop in song file sharing when apple made them affordable. Affordable textbooks is the answer

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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