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Truly Decentralized BitTorrent Downloading Has Finally Arrived

BitTorrent is a great technology to share files both quickly and efficiently, but like most other P2P-technologies it has an Achilles’ heel. The download process relies in part on central servers that can crash or go offline for a variety of reasons. To address this vulnerability the first truly decentralized BitTorrent/P2P client has been developed, meaning that no central trackers, or even BitTorrent search engines are required to download movies, software and music.

BitTorrent is branded as a peer-to-peer technology, but despite this label the downloading process still relies heavily on central servers. In the first place there are the BitTorrent search engines and indexes such as The Pirate Bay and isoHunt. These are needed to search for content and to grab the .torrent file one needs to download a file.

Besides these torrent sites, most BitTorrent downloads are still managed by so-called trackers. These servers coordinate the download process and make sure that people can find others who are sharing the files they want to download. To a certain degree, trackers are no longer needed with ‘trackerless’ technology such as DHT, but even DHT often uses a central server to get a torrent started.

Finally central servers are used by moderators to help hunt spam and malware. All file sharing programs without such central checking have become practically useless over time.

In the last years these ‘central server’ vulnerabilities have caused a number of minor inconveniences for torrent users. When trackers go offline, downloads usually slow down or may stop entirely, and when a torrent search engine such as The Pirate Bay has technical issues, users have to search for alternatives.

To address these issues, ideally BitTorrent downloads should no longer require a central server. P2P technology should not only facilitate the downloading and sharing process, but also the searching and storage of torrent files. This may sound like a technology that might only become available in the distant future, but in reality it already exists.

The latest version of the Tribler BitTorrent client (Win, Mac and Linux), released only a few minutes ago, is capable of all the above and many more things that could be described as quite revolutionary. The client combines a ‘zero-server’ approach with features such as instant video streaming, advanced spam control and personalized content channels, all bundled into a single application.

The Tribler team has come a long way to reach the point they’re at now. We first reported on the ‘tax-payer-funded’ BitTorrent client in 2006, and in the years that followed tens of millions of dollars have been spent on the client’s development resulting in the latest 5.3 release.

Triber: search, download and play (large).

tribler

Despite the fact that only a few thousand people are using Tribler on a monthly basis, in technological terms it is one of the most advanced clients. People who install the client will notice that there’s a search box at the top of the application, similar to that offered by other clients. However, when one does a search the results don’t come from a central index. Instead, they come from other peers.

In fact, Tribler’s search functionality even has an auto-suggest function which is also built to work based on P2P data instead of a central server. Remarkably enough the response times for the searches and the auto suggest are both pretty fast, under a second in 99% of cases.

As for the downloads themselves, if one clicks on a ‘torrent’ in the search result, the meta-data is pulled in from another peer and the download starts immediately. Tribler is based on the standard BitTorrent protocol and uses regular BitTorrent trackers to communicate with other peers. But, it can also continue downloading when a central tracker goes down.

Tribler users can choose if they want to play the downloading file directly (if it’s video) with the built in VLC player, or wait for it to finish first. In addition to searching for files, users can also create their own channels or subscribe to those of others. Again, this is all based on technology that doesn’t require a central server. Other new features are subtitle integration, support for magnet links and advanced spam controls.

Tribler Channels

tribler

Spam control in a P2P program that actually works is something not seen before. The Tribler spam mechanism revolves around user generated “channels”, which may contain several thousands of torrents.
When people like a channel they can indicate this with “mark as favorite”. When more people like a channel, the associated torrents get a boost in the search results.

The idea is that spam and malware will automatically be pushed down to non-existence in search results and the majority of users will favor the channels they love. In scientific terms, this is a classic case of survival of the fittest and group selection at work. Again, this is done without central servers.

With the combination of P2P-based search, torrent downloads and moderation, BitTorrent sites have been almost rendered obsolete. Although we don’t see torrent sites going away any time soon it’s ‘assuring’ to see that there are alternatives. Tribler’s cutting edge technology allows users to search for torrents and download files without the need for any central server. A revolution, not only for BitTorrent but for P2P in general.

As mentioned before, the Tribler project is funded by tax payers money, most of which comes from EU grants. However, according to Dr. Johan Pouwelse, leader of the Tribler project at Delft University of Technology, those who complain that spending all this money on the development of a BitTorrent client is a waste, are wrong.

“Tax payer money is going into Internet research, which happens to use a very powerful technology called BitTorrent. That’s different. On a wider scale a few hundred million euros of research money is being spent on making computer networks more robust and improving video streaming. I think that is money well spent,” Pouwelse told TorrentFreak.

Eventually, Pouwelse and his team hope to shape the future of Internet-based video delivery, and this won’t just be limited to PCs either. “Our architecture has unbounded scalability and in principle can work on all TVs, phones and other devices in the world simultaneously,” he said.

“22 scientists are working full time in the P2P research team i’m coordinating at Delft University of Technology. A lot of the algorithms and Open Source code we write ends up in Tribler. Roughly 6 other universities or organisations contribute code regularly to Tribler. It’s by far the largest science-driven P2P effort around,” Pouwelse added.

Aside from the fact that the technology itself is both exciting and fully operational in the real world, there are some issues that have to be overcome. Due to the low userbase of Tribler, the total number of torrents that are findable is relatively low. About 20,000, which is quite low compared to the millions of torrents most BitTorrent sites index.

This means that most of the popular content is available but that obscure files will be harder to find. The only way to really change this is when more people start to use the client, which might take a few more domain seizures than we’ve seen thus far.

Update: A message from Dr. Johan Pouwelse.

Many readers wonder why this is new compared to Kazaa, Exeem, LimeWire, Gnutella, eMule. Well, that explanation is a bit technical, here it goes. All these client either contain spam or use servers. For instance, Limewire Cooperation was sending out digitally signed instructions to block anti-piracy companies and spammers in general (157 pages of details).

Tribler does not use spam protection that originates exclusively from some cooperate headquarter or Swedish moderator server and does not use servers for search. After launching Tribler it quickly fills its integrated SQL light engine (pdf) with discovered content. It has a bias to talk to peers with the same download taste. Similar to how Google keeps out the Spammers using PageRank, Tribler uses a distributed reputation system (pdf).

Update: As pointed out by readers, there are other P2P-technologies that work fully decentralized, such as Kademlia. The decentralized “revolution” is limited to BitTorrent only.

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  • Anonymous

    Technology – 9 million and one. Outdated business model – 0.

  • tiger97a

    great thats one less problem and still can send and find without the tracker is just great as it should take the pressure off of the trackers.

  • Stavros

    Worth a try…

  • mustangx

    Props to Pouwelse and his team , not something I see myself using anytime soon. But it’s refreshing to see such projects in development.

  • Clorox

    So this takes out the need of searching on torrent sites. This my be a newb question but does this way make it more secure at all for use compared to using torrentz and then using utorrent?

  • Anonymous

    Its source code is public, but is it free software?

  • hmm

    But what about ratio? Can you use this on private trackers?
    If there is no incentive to upload, why would people bother except for ideological motives

  • Flying Dutchman

    @6
    Tribler is open-source peer-to-peer software developed at TU Delft, and VU Amsterdam. We foster co-development with other universities, companies and the open-source community. Anybody is free to download Tribler, to use it and to modify it under LGPL License (see LicensingTerms).

    Link: http://www.tribler.org/trac/wiki/TriblerForBusiness

    Looks cool, might try it in the near future.

  • Anoon

    “In scientific terms, this is a classic case of survival of the fittest and group selection at work”

    Oh stop it, you’re embarrassing yourself.

  • @9
    Still trolling I see.

  • TheSpark

    I will try this. My concern about decentralized searches are telling the fakes apart of the good stuff. I’m not sure if this problem though can be solved with a decentralized approach.

  • johnson

    i suppose the things to ask are:-

    a)how long before it is available to everyone as a real alternative to the p2p technology being used atm?
    b)how long before the entertainment industries stop it from developing further?
    c)how long before all those involved it this project are sued for ‘facilitating copyright infringement’?
    d)how long before the EU is sued for funding the project
    e)how long before the EU is sued for ‘facilitating copyright infringement’?
    f)how long before the entertainment industries want this technology for themselves only, so they can charge people the Earth for using it?
    g)how long before the EU does the right thing and tells the entertainment industries to ‘f**k off’!!

    could prove interesting!

  • Mr.Afghanistan

    I just used it, it’s complete Bullsh!t.

    Searched for over 40 stuff, just listed 1-2 of them and tried to download, it kept saying wait…. and nothing is happening lol

    We need a new technology better then P2P not worst.

    EPIC FAIL Project, need lots of upgrades else shut it down.

  • bonebone

    congrats on the achievement. hope its made open source so it can be implemented in other clients.

  • Anonymous

    well I tried it out, it’s free, works pretty good and I like it so far. Searches come up with pretty good results.

  • hotdog

    Grr I got on ubuntu linux “error dependency is not satisfiable:python vlc”any clue do I have to dl more sh8t?? I guess if I can’t get it here I’ll find out on the forums there.

  • Notn4

    @clorox

    I doubt it will be anymore secure than something like utorrent, since it still connects to other peers and that means that other peers connect to you, so your IP will most likely be very easy to find…

    but it does serve as a quite durable downloading option since RIAA and MPAA can’t sue the shits out of some tracker to make this useless :)

    as for my own opinion on this client, its GREAT to see that theres already available technology this advanced that doesn’t rely on trackers, but I’m probably not going to start using it, as the speeds aren’t probably high enough to max my connection, like most larger private trackers are :)

    but if this still exists after a few yrs, I bet it will kick the ass of most todays client !

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  • ctman

    Won’t this make persuing the ip of the users the only option available to big brother for copyright infringement. I mean this is a victory I guess but still not a complete solution.

  • LOL

    LoL

  • Trarkark

    This could not be “truly decentralised”… It isn’t possible. Unless the client scans all IP addresses for open connections, which would be stupid and make it supah slow.

  • The Mighty Buzzard

    Nifty but it still isn’t going to be lacking for spam any more than any other distributed search system. Unless you have a group of humans to moderate, fakes and malware infested hits will always be an issue.

  • V.

    I don’t get it. Isn’t this the same thing as Emule, Limewire, Grokster etc etc???? I thought BitTorrent was using the trackers as a way to explain how they are combating piracy in order to not have the same fate as the others. Although, they can’t 100% stop the exchange of protected intellectual property it was one of their best arguments that they were doing what they could. So what will stop authorities now?

  • Anonymous

    @13 learn to read “Due to the low userbase of Tribler, the total number of torrents that are findable is relatively low. ”

    Do you need me to make you a pic “I iz completle retarded” ?

  • hmm

    hmm no tracker sounds good i check the spam thing out and how it seeds the ip issue will have be worked on etc the only thing is it window.exe is 33.7mb hmm bit bloat i wonder if we could have less bloat in time never usaully happens time goes on more bloat any how good effort and time spent on their part good work guys

  • Ravenheart

    I’m a hardcore uTorrent user, but what the heck, I’ll give it a spin :)

  • Anonymous

    SEARCH function is the only reason this is interesting.

    But it needs to partner with somesite like http://www.Torrentz.com.
    Even better , with lots of sites.

    The torrents NEED to exist somewhere.

    The problem with kazza/emule ect..

    Users basicly broadcast there shared files on the network.
    That’s how people got caught sharing hundreds of files.

    Searching is easy , but quality is completly unsure.
    _ _ _

    THAT’S WHY torrents are better.

    Torrenting “”is a classic case of survival of the fittest “”.

    Find a trusted source of torrent files == no spam , no fakes.

    AND you DON’T have to divulge the contents of what you are sharing.
    .
    .
    .
    .

    The evolution of torrenting will only adapt features that it needs , and will lose the ones it doesn’t.

    Searching is a function that is needed.
    BUT searching is all about , where you look !
    .

    FUK you ?
    , you are not scanning MY PC to see what I am prepared to share ?

  • Laura

    It’s about friggin’ time!

  • G

    As described, it sounds brilliant! I’m going to check it out. Decentralization is the future. It is time for humanity to start valuing each other’s contributions. Trying to hold goods and services hostage until ransom is paid is so inefficient. Decentralized communication with peer grid accounting is the next step toward making usury obsolete. It paves the way to a golden age of production.

  • Howdy

    i installed it.

    it don’t work.

    i uninstalled it.

  • viktor

    @7

    “why would people bother except for ideological motives”

    for the same reason they upload on non-private trackers. there quite a few, you know, and they’re kicking.

    not everyone is as selfish as you to upload only for improving its ratio…

  • viktor

    *there are

    btw, i tried this thingie, but it’s still very limited. for example, i can’t select where to download the files for a specific torrent, only a default folder can be set for *all* torrents. which will suck balls when i want to download 2 torrents which have similar filenames.

    and anyway, i don’t want to have *all* files in one singe folder, that just sucks. additionally, there’s no button for doing very simple tasks, like opening a torrent file for download (no, i definitely won’t set file association for such an immature util).

    i understand the underlying technology is really advanced, but you should spend a lot more time on user experience, coz the current UI is really not too intuitive, especially for a user from the utorrent-world.

  • Pat Magroine

    More than welcome to search through my terabytes of pr0n.

  • Anonymous

    im sorry, millions of euros?! how do you spend all that money on this

  • hotdog

    lol didn’t even start up oh well I’ll stick to my other programs.

  • Same

    i installed it.

    it don’t work.

    i uninstalled it.

  • Cujo

    howdy installed it and then uninstalled it

    haha that was funny

  • Elmo

    With a name like Tribler, it must be sexy!

  • MoreTechDetails

    This seems more different from Kazaa, Limewire and eMule then the article suggests. They deployed a reputation system:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=tribler+reputation+system

    Seems like PageRank sort of stuff, worked for Google. . ..

  • Anonymous

    @18

    The Japanese are ahead of the curve on this thanks to their combination of extremely fast broadband and ridiculously obsessive copyright cops, but even they don’t have a perfect solution yet.

    We’ll probably end up going through a phase like https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Perfect_Dark_%28P2P%29 eventually if the content industry doesn’t go bankrupt first.

  • Sean

    The channels idea is good in theory, however, industry bots will invariably game the rankings. I’ll be really surprised if this is news to anyone. This will very quickly render the rankings useless, and bring spam back to the norm.

    The only thing I can think of to help spam control is if users create “trusted” networks among themselves by ranking each other’s torrents, and eventually downranking any potential industry bots to oblivion. But then this would entail having persistent identifiers among users, making anonymity impossible.

    To be honest, I can’t think of a counter-spam measure that could work in reality.

  • Scary Devil Monastery

    Oh, this looks like great news for the MPAA and RIAA.
    Somehow i fail to hear them cheering though. Odd. This should be the answer to all their prayers. finally something able to run TPB off the net after all.

    As for ip security…well, as soon as this software gets merged to onion routing options as in other open-source projects like stealthnet….we’ll be looking at an entire new paradigm.

  • Anonymous

    BEFORE I START.

    DON’T TRY to reinvent the wheel ?

    dl, installed , run. (ffs , how many ports and connections do you need )

    OK.. used it

    1. NEEDS co-operation with sites.

    1a. EG private sites , can have their own private channel.

    1b. Public sites can have their own channel.

    2. The torrents need SHA: File data “”sorting”"
    (eg… A.PUBLIC.torrent can be found on multiple sites (or channels)
    some sites have different torrents with the exact same data.
    USERS only care about the data , not the torrent name.

    After a search for “”A.PUBLIC.torrent” Tribler should show us the results aggregated from different torrents that match[DATA] AND have the option to use ALL trackers from multiple sources of torrents)

    3. speed could be increased, if sites where scraped for torrents, instead of users.(much quicker , goin to eztv , than using the channel… WHICH HAS SPAM ? )

    4. The Ui needs a better interface , with more controll over options.

  • Anonymous

    forgot to say….

    DON’T BRING BACK SPAM !

    Torrent sites , have been brilliant at keeping spam at bay. (especially private ones)

    IGNORE the reason , people moved from other networks to bitorrent. It will end tribler.

    Decent work sofar tho… keep it up.

  • Nick

    This post title is misleading and ridiculous.

    Either tribler has a bootstrapping server or it has peers hard-coded in to the software. Making it exactly the same as DHT/PEX. It is impossible to making something completely decentralised unless you want to sit down and manually enter the IP address of an initial peer.

    Making the sentence “but even DHT often uses a central server to get a torrent started” extremely ignorant on the reality of things.

  • lol

    BitTorrent is already decentralized. It’s called the internet. Trackers and websites aren’t centralized control as they are a network

  • Ninja

    wow, sounds like a dream. I hope utorrent implements something like that in the future. It should be a major kick in MAFIAA’s balls.

  • Anonymous

    Since this project was started only recently and released minutes ago, I’d say it’s a decent start. Sure it needs improvement– I wouldn’t use it myself at this stage– but this is a big step at least.

  • Tdash1

    Can someone explain how they are able to offer a streaming video option via torrents? How do they do this? Is there a way to get the packets lined up in the right order?

  • Anonymous

    Since this project was started only recently and released minutes ago, I’d say it’s a decent start. Sure it needs improvement– I wouldn’t use it myself at this stage– but this is a big step at least.

    Also @45 the domain names are centralized, they can be shut down. Something akin to a P2P network with no trackers literally has no centrality as far as I know, that’s what they’re going for (but have not quite yet achieved) now.

  • Gargamel

    Your IP still connects to swarms outside Tribler when downloading so who cares if you dont need to go2 a torrent site if your still going to get nailed all the same.

  • LOL

    this wont do as well as tf is saying, first its so easy to upload and download from sites like TPB and private sites which have excellent spam control,

    and who ummm uses trackers anymore, im downloading torrent at 2mb/sec with all the trackers down, doesnt make a diff,

    plus how would u upload to this is in in the program?

  • Devild Advocate

    Off Topic.

    Ernesto, you have not reported on the biggest story of the day, annonymous takes down paypal and Visa, claiming to be acting in support of wikileaks. Considering that both these subjects have been a mojor part of your posts for some time now I am surprised you ‘decided’ against writng on this.

  • 333

    thepiratebay.org/torrent/5969598/Digital_Crack_Vol_24_-_Ultimate_Hip_Hop_Rap_MiXtape_-_Multi_Genr

  • Devild Advocate

    …awaiting moderation…jeeesus, sort it out fellas.

  • G

    The downloading worked great for me. The streaming, not so much, but that will improve exponentially as people start using this product. Congratulations to the Tribler team. Well done.

  • Devild Advocate

    OK, as my origonal post is STILL awaiting moderation, I will try again, why have you not posted the biggest news today…
    Hackers hit Mastercard and Visa over Wikileaks row:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11935539

  • Fu Manchu

    It is reported that many Mastercard credit card details have been leaked.
    Google “Mastercard deemed unsafe”.

  • anon

    Very amazing can’t wait to see where this goes!

  • anon

    The UI sucks pretty hard. the Customizations suck even more. This is not it, look elsewhere people.

    However some things to improve, make a server edition that only collects and distributes .torrent files. then the server would slowly propagate them to peers for redundancy. and the peers would give all their .torrent files to the server and other peers. peers would have to manually enter the IP of the server. and peers could give lists of IPs to other peers if the peer wanted to give the list and if the receiving peer will accept the lists.

    make the UI less dumb and for people with half a brain, similar to uT deluge or whatever.

    drop streaming, its useless

    VLC integration sucks, get rid of it

    web ui

  • Mosjd

    Who cares about centralization? Bittorrent is and will be crappy until it’s ANONYMOUS.

  • jp

    Nice work.

    What do the TPB folks say?

    If I saw Tribbler mentioned on TPB site or such, then I would be more apt to try tribbler.

    Thanks for creating it!

  • Anonymous

    download and stream not working, torrents wont start even with 10+ trackers… hardly see this replacing the current torrent system.

  • AnonNonNon

    Hmm. Permanent IDs. Great idea, let’s have a trackable identity for p2p. Oh, wait, no… let’s not.

    If I can have that change on every startup, I’d use this.

  • Anonymous

    Who they trying to kid? It sounds like emule.

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  • Anon

    Just checked the .torrent files it downloads, wow, no thanks.

    Just in a minute, this program auto downloaded a shit load of .torrent files, I mean a Shit Load.

    I’ll stick with my hefty uTorrent and choose what .torrent files “I” want to use. :)

  • r

    i think the malware and fakes will master this system of gathering more favorites faster than you think

  • Pedro

    Not to be a dick, i love torrentfreak… but what the heck… decentralized as in using magnet links?!?
    Isn’t that what other clients have been doing since forever?

  • The Jail Card Troller

    You pirates shall pay for this… and the yada yada

  • robert

    we need to to help get this known spread the word. and kick these greedy sons of bitchs in nuts. yay p2p

  • R

    Downloading without a tracker – how is that different to DHT?

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  • Anonymous

    I don’t like this software. It’s very slow loading compared to uTorrent. Very few options. Example opf wasted public money. way too limited way to users

  • The Grim Reaper

    I don’t like this software. It’s very slow loading compared to uTorrent. Very few options. Example of wasted public money. very limited few users

  • LOL

    This post title is misleading and ridiculous.”

    Either tribler has a bootstrapping server or it has peers hard-coded in to the software. Making it exactly the same as DHT/PEX. It is impossible to making something completely decentralised unless you want to sit down and manually enter the IP address of an initial peer.:”

    —Sounds mindblowing

  • Anonymous

    decentralization only requires the two people to trade the stuff that is needed , its called handshaking
    lord i dreamed up not only this but encryption for it ten years ago…

  • AtrociousQAntony

    Hmm, it says right there in the article, it uses a few central tracking servers, but should they go down, it can function without them.

    Not what I would call, “truly decentralised.”

  • Ven

    @ Those who are wondering about decentralization and indexing:

    From what I’ve read, it sounds like Tribler will (on startup) automatically leech information from other users. What scares me is that it also sounds like it indexes an IP list of more reliable users to aid in this.

    So don’t doubt that it will be truly decentralized, worry about the IP tracking it will do to achieve it.

  • Anonymous

    @76 thats why its bad once your in a system like that its wide open time.

  • Anonymous

    http://www.thestar.com/news/article/904094–canada-negotiating-perimeter-security-deal-with-u-s-reports?bn=1

    read the added part about fighting hackers….its now on unless they back the fuck off

  • h33t

    bootstrapping is only required as a temporary population service for the tribler system

    @tribler: why not use a bespoke modified tribler-client script to perform the initial population of tribler with the metadata of over 6 million torrents from the existing global tracker network. the tribler “populator” doesnt need the seed content because an uTorrent compatible DHT API embedded in tribler will find the live peers

    start by using a script to full scrape the trackers for their torrent metadata. there are approx 4.5K trackers of which approx 400 are full scrape enabled (you will need to source a required initial volume of torrent files to initiate the data collection of tracker urls)

    once the tribler user base is large enough there will be no further need for the bootstrapping link to the global tracker network because the distributed tribler db will hold the hashes and the population engine can be stopped

    http://www.h33t.com still doesnt like tribler’s give-to-get and believes Bram’s streaming tit-for-tat will ultimately dominate. give-to-get is the same as introducing a currency to btittorrent and the taxation occurs when reputation is used to discriminate taxed peers. in the world of filesharing not all peers are created equal for reasons of hardware, bandwidth, geographical location, network congestion and reliability of connection. thus a single source of rare and valuable content can suffer taxation because of network related issues. in a world where data value is free (or value is at least ephemeral) and where currency is only a temporary advantage, any move towards making data into currency and then taxing the client is fundamentally uneconomic

  • mshenrick

    so, its like gnutella torrent? try and shut that down RIAA/MPAAfia! they will probably sue the maker of the program, which by stereotypes about linux software, may well be open source (i cant see because we accidently DDoSed them) so it would be almost impossible to irradicate it

  • Mark

    If they could make the p2p system work for DNS and HTML … not just torrents… with some kind of ability to verify the DNS or HTML publisher… it would be more useful!

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  • Tuxie

    This sounds a bit like OneSwarm but without the anonymity.

  • LaVista

    Looks Good trying now but v5.03?? wth it first released btw that so called revolutionary instant video streaming is quite old m using it in bitcomet for a while & plz smbdy explain how it is TRULY Decentralized when it is using teh same tracker thingy??

  • scooby

    @80 Coral CDN exists for such purpose !!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Content_Distribution_Network

  • >

    this isnt some thing new , just a new spin on a very old and WORKING CONCEPT….. its called WinMx ,the totally decenteralized way of downloading with out fear,instead of using .torrent it uses ppls hash number (of course a persons IP can be derived from the hash #)BUT its a hell of a lot safer….

    <<<<<>>>>>

  • atko

    Millions of dollars spent on a sharing application? Are you guys insane? You could feed Africa for several years with these money! You are huge consumers, aren’t you? How did you get these money? Which institution allowed you to have these european money? Except putting money in these project did you buy as well a several Maserati?

  • Whatever

    So channels are voted for and not the torrents themselves.

    Does the channel creator manage it and the torrents ? This means that the creator is the server and vulnerable. Its also problematic with reliability when the device is not on the network.

    Where are the votes stored ?
    Only if checked live at every peer and only with millions of peers prevents pollution.

    Without a central server how are the peers found ?

    Even in a freenet like setup there is danger because in such data quantities, if the next node/computer responds too fast for too long it must be downloading or seeding that actual file.

    BTW: For all those millions, one would expect some better and faster progress as there is enough software more complex created with less or no money. The problem probably is the task they were given is different from what torrent users would like to see.

  • AnarchyNow

    In fact, what we really need is to get rid of insecure tcp/ip

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  • Eilif

    Channels..? you mean hubs and rooms? In that case, its another bad copy of a crappy DC++?

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  • Blah

    I like it! EZTV has their own channel on Tribler.

  • lol

    how much did they pay you for this post ?

  • Niels@Tribler

    So guys first of all, thank you for trying out this new release of Tribler.
    We’re well aware that the gui/ux side of the project needs improving. We performed an extensive gui makeover for this release, but this continues to be a concern.

    Comparing it to uTorrent though is not a fair fight, uTorrent is a minimal BitTorrent client and Tribler has search, streaming, reputation etc. Some of those features work, others are still work in progress.

    If you have any comments on specific features you are missing or which need improvement. Please let us know at our uservoice page:
    http://tribler.uservoice.com/

    Thanks,
    Niels

  • Niels@Tribler

    @87
    You are correct, channels are voted on. Which then implies a ‘reputation’ for all .torrent inside a channel.

    Currently a channel has one owner, this owner needs to inject all .torrents. These .torrents are then forwarded by him and all users which have marked a channel as their favorite will also store/forward these .torrents.

    Votes are stored locally and exchanged between 2 peers (when they meet). Only if you meet a peer, then you add the votes of this peer.

    We have bootstrap servers, these maintain lists of peers which are currently in the system.

    The millions are used for research, not all research is included in Tribler.

  • Le Fake

    I like the idea that this is a professionally developed client and has a sizeable full-time workforce working on it.

    The features sound very interesting. Maybe in time it’ll gain a decent userbase — users are what’s still missing for its features to work properly, right?

  • Violated

    Quote “This means that most of the popular content is available but that obscure files will be harder to find. The only way to really change this is when more people start to use the client, which might take a few more domain seizures than we’ve seen thus far”

    Either that or when other torrent clients make use of this Open Source software to tap into the Tribler network. Adding this feature to uTorrent, BitComet and others would soon add a few million users.

    That should only take a few weeks from now. This is a huge advancement and should be universally supported with thanks to Tribler and tax money.

  • Whatever

    @93 Dec 09, 2010 at 15:39 by Niels@Tribler

    Thanks for clarifying that.

    So channels/.torrents are copied, not the votes. Although a bit vague on the collection of votes i assume that only when connecting to a particular peer will the vote of ONLY that peer for a particular channel be retrieved (Assuming that with “votes” you meant a vote for each channel from a peer).

    Hopefully the .torrent files get compared with several (random) peers to make sure it is the same file considering the possibility of manipulation and spam.

    End of @.

    Back to commenting:
    For freeware, creative commons and other free distributions this will work fine. However, since a channel has an owner (which must be tracable to maintain a channel), the MAFIAA will have a field day in finding the source.

  • Anon

    Looks like thieves will do anything to continue stealing.

  • Anon

    @97 yes, and i just stole your nick…

  • Alex

    As a Dutchman, I’m proud that the taxes I pay are funding this project.

  • nunya

    No source code, and no Linux port available as of 12/09/10 (“We’re working on it” sez the website.)

    Smells like NSA to me.

  • atko

    If not all of the research is included in Tribler, what else you guys have been researching? Because imo this is a lot of money spent on a sharing app and some research. What kind of research have you made be more specific? Which organization is you sponsor then? Are you allowed to say this to the public? This is interestiing I expect to get answers to all my questions Niels and pls be more specific, not so laconic.

  • Thomas

    I think it is a great idea. Intellectual property is bullshit. You cant own an idea. BUT!!!!
    Taxpayer money??? Taxes are worse than supporting proprietary software. Taxation = theft and slavery. No wonder the EU is crumbling.
    This should be released from government hands immediately and developed privately and open.
    Crazy people. The world will always suck when everyone is a tyrant using the state to force his neighbor into slvery.

  • atko

    There are two options the way I see it. Either you are making good PR for your product and you are lying about how expensive your product is, which I think is more like it and second some organization really gave you tens of millions dollars to spend on such project which I think is really stupid way to spend such money and god help us all if some organizations and some ppl are spending so easy millions on some common projects! Tell me what makes your project so special to spend millions? What? It has search function, reputation, streaming. Not really anything special about these common functions! Nothing revolutionary I would say…

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  • c4cH4F4x0r

    Installed it.

    Started a torrent (wikileaks insurance).

    99% Cpu usage.

    Closed it.

    Started again, 99% cpu usage.

    Unistalled.

  • noko

    @97: You should steal a dictionary (and maybe a brain) and learn the difference between stealing and copying/filesharing.

  • TPz

    ‘tax-payer-funded’…isn’t that just a nice way of saying government-funded?
    I wonder what kind of special features a government-funded BitTorrent/P2P client might have.

  • Sux2BeU

    Installed, liked it, kept it!

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  • Niels@Tribler

    @100
    All sources can be found at http://tribler.org/trac/wiki/TriblerForDevelopers

    @101
    A lot of research is being done by our group. You can find some papers using http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=author:Pouwelse+peer

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  • jlegend

    They would accomplish something if they combined the idea of soulseek with bittorrent… Instead of downloading from one single user download from all users that have that file at once like utorrent etc does in chunks… Sharing torrent files seems a bit silly… Sharing folders with files sounds better… Cut the torrent files out all together and just do that…

    Also this could be used to run a blog site without using a server… A place where people could comment and rate your files as if you were running your own webpage… All the information would come from your computer… Instead of rating your channel… Have coments… These are more profitable than a rating that anyone could make up… If you have a fast enough connection I suppose you could even have a template… But just having a list of your files with comments would be a plus and might be a considerable alt to torrent sites…

  • Anonymous

    ok people
    first off a new protocol needs be made one that embeds your IP in it so you get an ID or username
    hten that username gets used in htis network
    and you have it scan for people as per the settigns you can or could set
    and its all done by the protocols encryption

    there thats how it start this NOT the way you all seem to be going.

    THIS also means that unless you have said protocol and it on you wont connect to anyone. its encrypted remember.

    add features like altering encryption, ports and ID names…

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  • Follow the Money

    Kademlia serverless filesharing is being used by millions using eMule from http://emule-project.net since 2003. Bootstrapping can take a few hours and searches don’t find all rare files, but a large library of files is being shared. The network is popular in Italy, France, Latin America, Russia and all over the world. Chinese users are often dominating HD releases.

  • Anonymous

    @93
    “Currently a channel has one owner, this owner needs to inject all .torrents. These .torrents are then forwarded by him and all users which have marked a channel as their favorite will also store/forward these .torrents.”

    Step 1: I start a channel, inject a bunch of quality .torrents which users favourite/rate highly.

    Step 2: I upload a .torrent that will be highly demanded which is actually a trojan.

    Step 3: The channel is highly rated: people trust the torrent and download it.

    Step 4: ????

    Step 5: Profit

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  • Edward

    The first time I tried this software, it gave me a virus. I immediately run my antivirus and UNinstalled Tribler. There’s no easy system of voting fake files down. And there’s very limited content.

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  • torrentmaniac

    nanotorrent.tk is the real deal

  • Anonymous

    Tribler is NOT free software… the main libraries are proprietary, although some is LGPL.

    Still, if it wants to take off, it should be interoperable with other clients, I guess…

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  • Niels@Tribler

    @ 112
    You’re right this is a problem. But even in ‘normal’ BitTorrent this is true. If aXXo decided that he wanted to make some money, he could do the same.

    In our system, you can at least see/determine which peer injected what content. Something which if using torrent indexers is not always the case.

  • Ettore

    This is excellent; sure, the Tribler client is rudimentary and lacking polish, and there is not much of a client base to speak of, but this is being government funded, which means the code will be useable by all. That’s the beauty of grants, their client doesn’t have to ever make money, it just has to develop technology that would be monetarily non-feasible to normal people.

    So, a few months from now our friends at uTorrent could easily add the features they wanted (ideally the search) and, basically instantly (once updates happen) have 20-30% of torrenters worldwide in the “search swarm”; that’d be fantastic.

  • Finnonymous

    Some people just seem to jump right into commenting rather than reading the article. Though it’s easy for me to say since I’ve been following the progress of tribler for a long time, it’s clear from the TF article that tribler is a beautiful offspring from millions of dollars worth of Internet/P2P research rather than research being a byproduct of a torrent client.

    And to those whose memory serves them to the distant past of one year ago: http://torrentfreak.com/worlds-first-bittorrent-powered-live-streamed-concert-091024/
    P2P-Next

    If that seemed random enough, the research done by people behind tribler also goes to P2P-next. http://www.tribler.org/trac/wiki/P2P-Next/19Million-for-P2P

    Niels@Tribler probably could elaborate on all this and who pays who, being insider and all, but to me it seems that that my money is in good hands.

    ps. One example why I like all this research:
    Though I don’t watch sports that much, I just hate how much FIFA & Co charge from just distribution. With P2P live streaming There’s no excuse for that or otherwise people start streaming themselves. (they already do)

    pps. Tribler really needs a new ui or at least more customization options.

  • prodigy

    how is this different from previous p2p software like limewire?

  • bruno

    WTF??? the writer of this post is not well documented.

    https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Kademlia

    As it’s already been pointed out in comment #111 by “Follow the Money” the kademlia network is out there (since 2003) working really good; no server is needed, you just have to wait a little during bootstrap (aMule stores 200 peers when you close it, so when i reopen it, in 30 sec I have 800+ peers).

    Tribler is NOT a revolution; maybe it’s the best p2p software ever made, maybe everybody will use it, but it is not revolutionary.

    http://www.amule.org/
    http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/~petar/papers/maymounkov-kademlia-lncs.pdf

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  • Reason

    cool

    If they add Anonymity next, than it’s almost perfect!

    It would be the worlds largest decentralised anonymously connected artificial network based on torrent technology.

    Think of the possibilities: powered by the masses, not individual entities, driven by the momentum of the masses; a giant wide spreading all-covering network with decentralised expandable storage. The worlds knowledge, ideas and arts distributedly hold and shared by everyone everywhere. The spark of a true world archive.

    The great electronic archive of the world.

    It could be wonderful!

  • me

    Every now and then I install new versions of Tribler, and then I uninstall them after few minutes. The concepts are very neat but the application is unusable and there is no help on the website.

  • Shanya Almafeta

    “Released only a few minutes ago” – So who provided your paid advertisement? Awfully long and well-illustrated article for something that came out a few minutes ago.

    “Tens of millions of dollars have been spent on the client’s development resulting in the latest 5.3 release.” — Seriously, millions of dollars? Get the algorithms right and code. This isn’t something that would cost millions to do, it’s what one lonely college student with nowhere to go on spring break could hammer out in a week.

    “The Tribler project is funded by tax payers money” – Oh, that’s how it costs millions.

  • me

    @Shanya – perhaps you are a bit too unfair but yes, I kind of sense that Tribler is developed with EU public funding. I find especially frustrating that there is no easy to find help file, I cannot spend hours learning how to use it. The forums are unclear and cover old versions only, and probably reading the code would be faster. Give me some simple tool like utorrent.

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  • Anonymous

    installed it, very slow tried to stream does not work, tried to download but there was no seeds, and it does now show u if there is any.
    uninstalled it. NEEDS WORK

  • level9

    Twenty scientists in a team working on P2P and it’s focused around torrent?
    While I do find the torrent protocol to be the best P2P protocol around I would rather get those scientists work on a project like freenet. Since public P2P is heavily threatened by laws nowadays and it tends to get worse one would think that the future lies in fully encrypted darknets and there are a lot of improvements that can be made there. But then I guess that kind of work would not be supported with tax money.

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  • dude

    I hate joining user channels, its why I don’t use gnutella and go to torrent in the first place. I want to search on a grand scale. Channel remind me of mirc channels how users get empowered and become snobs and you have to abide their sever rules, etc.

  • Ashley

    ill give it a shot

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  • Anonymous

    So, how do you get a peer list without a tracker ?

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  • TribblerSucks

    An applications GUI ultimately reflects whats on the backend, and how much time was put into it.

    Tribbler is such a joke.

    How could something that is this fundamentally fucked up on the backend (the code is absolute crap!), and frontend (which looks like a retard developed it) cost tens of millions to develop? SOUNDS LIKE A NEW ANTI-P2P TRACKING SYSTEM TO ME!

    or someone trying to duplicate the piece of shit Vuze concept.

  • Niels@Tribler

    @129
    We implemented RePex, which basically means that every peer after downloading will continue to monitor the swarm. (For a given period)
    The peerlists which these peers maintain can then be used to bootstrap a download. The lists are returned during search.

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  • andres

    if you’re looking for ENCRYPTED and ANONYMOUS connections in a FULLY DECENTRALIZED network, with support for trackerless torrents, and very soon also with such a serverless search feature you should really have a look at I2P and one of it’s bittorrent clients that’s called Robert.
    It is, however, very slow compared to the open internet, but I read some comments here asking for encryption, others said as long as you connect to peers directly knowing their ip’s you’re still screwed, so you need to get the entire thing be anonymous – well if that’s what you’re looking for – fully anonymous, safe and unobservable filesharing (though slow), then I2P is what you want. It has all of that already.
    Go give it a try if you want
    http://www.i2p2.de

    It’s an international open source project that does _not_ receive millions of tax dollars/euros.
    It offers far more than just bittorrent, anonymous e-mail, chat, website hosting, IRC, blogging, iMule, …
    It already comes with an integrated, built-in anonymous bittorrent client and there’s an alternative bittorrent client for i2p that does allow trackerless torrents, magnet-like in-network links called maggot links and soon the search without trackers…
    As there are no exposed proxies to the outernet bittorrent world its content is still rather limmited – only in-bnetwork traffic is allowed.
    But that’s not a technical problem but rather a matter of you, the users adapting it or not…

    Greetings,
    Andres

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