TorrentFreak

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Verizon Sued For Defending Alleged BitTorrent Pirates

A group of adult movie companies is suing Verizon for failing to hand over the personal details of alleged BitTorrent pirates. The provider systematically refuses to comply with court-ordered subpoenas and the copyright holders see these actions as more than just an attempt to protect its customers. According to the them, Verizon’s objections are in bad faith as the Internet provider is profiting from BitTorrent infringements at the expense of lower-tier ISPs.

verizonThe ongoing avalanche of mass-BitTorrent lawsuits reveal that IP-addresses can get people into a heap of trouble.

In many cases the person who pays for the account is not the person who shared the copyrighted material. However, this is the person who gets sued, something that can have all kinds of financial implications.

To shield their customers from this kind of outcome Verizon now objects to subpoenas granted by courts in these cases. Not in one case, but in dozens. One of the arguments cited by Verizon’s attorneys is that the requests breach the privacy rights of its customers.

“[The subpoena] seeks information that is protected from disclosure by third parties’ rights of privacy and protections guaranteed by the first amendment,” their counsel informed the copyright holders.

Verizon further cites arguments that have previously been successful in similar cases, including the notion that mass lawsuits are not proper as the defendants did not act in concert.

Three of the copyright holders, all makers of adult films, have had enough of Verizon’s refusals and have filed a lawsuit against the company at a federal court in Texas. Malibu Media, Patrick Collins and Third Degree Films ask the court to hold Verizon in contempt and compel Verizon to respond to the subpoenas.

“Verizon objects to the subpoenas on various grounds, all of which lack merit. Accordingly, Plaintiffs respectfully request that the Court overrule each of Verizon’s objections, compel immediate compliance with Plaintiffs’ subpoenas and hold Verizon in contempt for failing to obey the subpoenas,” they write.

Aside from countering Verizon’s arguments directly, the copyright holders claim that Verizon’s refusal to hand over customer details is in bad faith, as the ISP profits from the alleged copyright infringements.

The movie companies back up this claim by pointing to a study published last year, which concluded that large ISPs profit from BitTorrent at the expense of smaller ones.

“Verizon’s current Objections can only be seen as being asserted in bad faith, and with the expectation to continue to profit from BitTorrent infringement at the expense of other, lower-tier ISPs and the consuming public at large. There is seemingly no incentive for ISPs such as Verizon to aggressively identify infringers on their network,” they tell the court.

“Add to this the fact that Verizon and its cohorts enjoy virtual immunity from liability under the development of laws such as the DMCA, and this scenario presents multiple concerns of fairness and accountability.”

While it’s a novel argument, the movie studios omit to mention that Verizon is also one of the partners in the upcoming “six-strikes” scheme, which aims to decrease copyright infringements through BitTorrent.

The ISP previously told TorrentFreak that it sees more value in a system where users are warned and educated, as opposed to being sued in court.

“We believe this program offers the best approach to the problem of illegal file sharing and, importantly, is one that respects the privacy and rights of our subscribers. It also provides a mechanism for helping people to find many great sources of legal content,” Verizon told us.

The “six strikes” anti-piracy scheme, or copyright alerts system as it’s officially named, is expected to go live later this week. But since the adult film industry is not invited, mass-BitTorrent lawsuits are not going away anytime soon.

That said, the current case can make a huge impact according to Rob Cashman, a lawyer who represents many accused Does in these BitTorrent cases.

Cashman explains that if the ISP wins then copyright holders have no other way to identified the defendants, meaning that these and other Verizon defendants are off the hook.

“The hope and expectation on my end is that other ISPs will follow suit. This will be one more way we can shut down these trolling cases for good,” Cashman says.

“On the flip-side, if the judges grant the request to force the ISPs to comply with their subpoenas, then it will be “game on” for both of us. They will continue trying to extort money from the defendants, and attorneys such as myself and others will continue placing our “monkey wrenches” to break their operations,” Cashman adds.

Whatever happens, the case is going to be one to watch.

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  • Anyone

    Verizon is a strange case, on the one hand they stand up for their customers, on the other hand they sell them out in the six strike scheme

    so you can’t really call them the “good guys”

    • http://profiles.google.com/pianogamer Knut Harald

      Trying to please the MAFIAA, which doesn’t work. Maybe they’ll come to their senses and just stand their ground untill the end.

      • chronoss

        just think megaupload and what not to do with feds ever.

        NEVER give one inch better to die in flames quick then have it dragged out forever and have you bent over the rest of your life.

        and thank obama for me will ya

        • I feel for people

          Perspective is lost….. MAFFIA just want to punish people more.

          People drink from the toilet
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDWNbDxAgCc

        • I love Ernesto

          Yeah, it’s a lovely video.
          When he drinks from the toilet. It makes me feel, we all should set aside our cultural differences and just get along.

        • Clambing

          Ya. They only way to stop these corporate parasites is to kill some of them in retaliation when they sue people. This is the only way to deal with terrorists.

          The fed are doing this in Pakistan with drones. We can do this here at home with our guns.

        • Get it

          Drinking from the toilet must be normal in mexico.

          Makes you see the perspective

        • ScrewEwe2

          Yo cabrón, I thought you were from Canada, not Mexico. Be careful chronoss, you could get sick drinking from the toilet like that.

        • Anon

          I think I’m going to try drinking toilet water. That will show all you evil pirates what a man I am.

    • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

      The main problem I see with the position these CopyWrong fucktard trolls have put Verizon in is that the ISP has got a hold of some really decent lawyers giving good advice that should stand up in any fair or just Court. So I don’t see why these trolls are trying to bring this case to the next level of Court, because I’d bet your bottom dollar Verizon will win this.

      The 6-strikes shit is just the next hurdle Verizon will need to fight against in a fair and just manner. Unless they really are a bunch of anti-Piracy wankers, in which case they can shrivel up and die on impotence.

    • http://twitter.com/JustAGuyOnline Justin Agai

      I was about to say the same thing. I don’t get it.

      • Anon

        What’s not to get? Verizon knows it has to comply with court orders. They are spinning the pirates in an empty pr campaign into thinking they are piracy allies while preparing to sell you out to law enforcement going forward. “We’re SO SORRY” “It’s a court order and it’s not OUR FAULT!”

        sure. lol Tell it to the judge.

        • Anyone

          the courts already ruled that an IP does not identify an infringer

          so why do the trolls keep on trying?

        • Guest

          Why should Verizon have to fork out for enforcement that rightsholders want? Do chefs pay you so they can have the privilege to cook your food?

        • MadAsASnake

          Courts a wizing up to this extortion scam anon.

        • Anon

          “What’s not to get? Verizon knows it has to comply with court orders.”

          Six strikes was not ordered by the courts.

        • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

          Verizon is in the Six Strikes trenches deep enough to see that when the shit hits the fan its Customers are going to crash the gates into the legislature and the appellate courts. They’re going to be suing 200 million strong and collecting on very real abuses.

          Verizon has every reason to fear that the same DOJ that compelled the Five ISPs to get together in a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in order to impose effectively ONE combined National TOS on 75% of the American Tele-Com Market (at least 250 million customers), will one day appear in Federal Court suing those same regulated ISPs for having colluded an illegal restraint of trade. (This has actually happened before, during the second Roosevelt Administration: The Supreme Court upheld criminal verdicts against Oil Co., executives and their enteties, despite the documented evidence that Senior Officials of the second Roosevelt Administration (including the DOJ) had explicitly approved the implemented scheme to put a floor on petroleum prices in their Southwest markets. The Corporate Officers went to jail. Their Companies were effectively bankrupt. (I regret that I don’t have the citation on hand, but any lawyer on site will be familiar with the case involving Succony Oil).

          In this context, the only thing Verizon is spinning is its own well founded fear.

          What Anon is spinning…… is something else entirely.

        • Guest

          “while preparing to sell you out to law enforcement going forward”

          That isn’t how the six strikes scheme even works. You aren’t just clueless about piracy, you’re clueless about your own side as well. Good lord.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “sure. lol Tell it to the judge.”

          Every judge in every court case has so far set the precedent that ip adresses are not valid to use as a basis for lawsuits.

          So the judge has been told, the judge has spoken, and Verizon is currently in the place where one judge is telling them to ignore the precedent set by every other judge.

          And that means if Verizon rolls over they are in violation of more solidly set law as well.

          However, Anon, don’t let us stop you from having delusions. Those of us with empirical fact and history in our possession know full well what this type of case ends with.

        • Jermahtruhmahne

          hey guess what?! *gets up in faux anon’s face* no one cares about you, your weird ideas, or what you think, get a real job.

    • JordanKratz

      They are not the Good Guys ! They are another Big Corporate Telco who have bent over to show their Big Ass to MAFIAA.
      Their 6 Strikes Plan will hopefully turn into a great weapon against MAFIAA.

      • Ask

        Nobody is completely good, neither completely bad.

        Good boys, bad boys, that’s fiction
        it’s useful to create stories (books, series, etc.) nothing else,
        the reality is different.

        • Guest

          Well, I’d say the MAFIAA is completely bad.

      • Guest321

        Are you completely innocent? No? Then shut up. Nobody is perfect and neither is Verizon. Considering they are a business, I would say they have already gone beyond the call of duty by ignoring unfair subpoenas and defending pirates while risking fines and damages from court, That’s more than what any ISP would do for you.

    • Lol

      no this will be easy for verizon, as porn is not copwrited even though it says it is, to see what i mean, look up the definition of copywrite.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      I think Verizon is in a “lose-lose” situation here. they know full well that handing over the ip adresses opens them to lawsuits by their customers given the outcome of all previous rulings in court cases where ip adresses were used.

      So they may be screwed whether they obey this court ruling or not. I’m guessing their lawyers are saying that they will be MORE screwed if they hand over confidential customer information to a 3rd party though.

      In which case they are simply trying to tough it out while waiting for a second judge to overrule the first one, given that there is a any number of precedence cases where ip adresses were categorically excluded as a valid basis for copyright extortion lawsuits.

    • Thom

      Yes, Verizon can be called the “Good Guys’. The company stands to protect the identity of their customers based upon our First Amendment rights, though they fairly warn you when your doing stupid shit like downloading torrents with a condom.

      If people are going to download pirated content, for christ sakes don’t disrespect the “messenger” (e.g. your ISP) by not using some form of protection such as a VPN.

      Don’t expect to speed down a street with speed-traps, and not get pulled over.

    • Andrew me

      Maybe they have actually done some real research and realize that the six strikes law will just not work and that once it is implemented it will be a case of the courts deciding that it is not constitutional.

      Better that they support the copyright monopoly in the six strike plan and let the courts decide that the monopolists are overreaching and overreacting than trying to explain it to them themselves, which would be ignored anyways, and trying to tell the monopolists what they are doing is not going to work is a lost cause anyways.

  • Who

    Verizon sucks N e ways, no matter how you look @ them.
    an so does the law firms and the out fits claiming the infringements.
    they figure the DMCA was put in to play for every ones use and it was only meant for the RIAA/MPAA. the IPA was put in to play for EVERYBODY and its gets violated ALL the time by the ones that started the DMCA. hence the demanding of IP’s and other personal information.

    • Anon1

      In their defense their internet service is quite superior to any other’s I’ve ever had. But everything else they do as far as copyright bullshit, is obviously objectionable.

  • Guest

    If courts have stated that an IP address does not prove who the infringer is who downloaded then why should Verizon or any ISP for that matter hand over the IP details of an account holder to a copyright troll etc. when it doesn’t prove their (copyright troll) case that the IP address proves who the infringer is for them to sue.

    • MadAsASnake

      Common sense tells you that anyway…

  • Jason

    If the trolls win Verizon should pull support of 6 stikes.

  • Guest

    Fuck you MAFIAA.

  • NewClear

    Malibu Media is the the most vile, repulsive company alive.

    • Jason

      And their porn sucks. Who would pay for porn anyway?

      • NewClear

        Their profession is not making porn, they only do it so they can backstab their own consumers later and slap them with ingenious lawsuits. Thats how they make money. No “creativity” at all here and this is why porn should not be protected by copyright law.

        • Masau Fuku

          I disagree with the last bit. Like it or not, they still created it and should be “protected” the same as any other creator.

          And while a lot of porn certainly has little to no creativity involved, some does – Hentai for instance. Not only is there the animation involved, but there’s often a fair amount of effort put into storyline. I don’t know that I’ve ever watched anything from Malibu Media, nor do I really care to “research” their porn atm, so you could be correct.

          That said, the protection should only extend to preventing unauthorized original sales, and preventing others from claiming authorship at most. Not resale, and not free (or at cost) distribution.

        • Anon

          “I disagree with the last bit. Like it or not, they still created it”

          Malibu Media LLC doesn’t create porn. They’re pro trolls, (allegedly) acquiring the rights to preexisting works and then filing frivolous lawsuits, like Righthaven.

          http://cynthiaconlin.com/blog/2012/5/17/copyright-troll-malibu-media-files-6-new-lawsuits-in-middle.html

          Do a search on Malibu Media LLC with the intention of subscribing to one of their porn sites. You will be disappointed.

    • Anon1

      Calling them “scum of the earth” would be an insult to actual scum of the earth.

  • MadAsASnake

    Copyright trolls that abuse the court process by extracting “discovery” and then operate extortion on account holders without taking cases to court are complaining that Verizon is acting in bad faith? While it may be true that if they can’t obtain account holder information from IP evidence then they have no other route to identify the infringer, it is also true that there is no particular reason to tie the account holder to the infringement anyway. Not sure about Verizon, but Malibu Media and co are straight out criminals.

  • Df267dgt23786g

    Fucking infidels

  • Arb1

    “Aside from countering Verizon’s arguments directly, the copyright holders claim that Verizon’s refusal to hand over customer details is in bad faith, ”

    i got a great laugh from that, as if they have right to talk about Bad Faith with their extortion pay up letters they send out.

  • La_resistance

    Did i wake from a coma? Verizon is keeping info from copywrite trolls? And yet they have a six strikes policy? Sounds fishy to me but thanks verizon for doing something right lord knows you cant do anything else right!,

  • Violated0

    The problem with the 6-strikes educational scheme is that the copyright cartels never follow the rules, where they just see infringement that needs to be stamped out, including their common abuse of the law.

    So while it may start with good intentions in mind all this 6-strikes scheme will do will allow them to stick their foot in the door where they would then use this position to push hard until they are in everyone’s homes and offices.

    Then this 6-strikes scheme in the USA is sure making the 3-strikes of the UK’s DEA (due next year) sound more like the cane, the cat’o'nine tails and the bullwhip as each day passes. Educational is a nice goal but they do plan other goals.

    Good luck to Verizon but we both know that speculative invoicing is on the way out where to push back can well be productive.

    • MadAsASnake

      Arguing for “educational” schemes is really insulting to all concerned.

      • Anon

        That’s kinda true. Everyone knows the deal by now.
        But if the copyright holders want legislation to fuck pirates up the ass for stealing their shit they first have to demonstrate to the legislators with pious faces how they’ve tried (at their own expense, no less) to teach you about the law. You can ignore the law if you wish. That’s up to you, but if you do they have the same rights to screw you deep and hard. And of course, we hope they do. Piracy, the act of copying and distributing without paying is vile and the greatest unlawful scourge on the internet today.

        • MadAsASnake

          This might be really hard for a nonce like you to understand, but there is almost as much chance of me being “caught” by IP evidence as a hard core down-loader. The idea that I should be “screwed deep and hard” based solely on flaky IP evidence is a really vile notion and shows how noxious you are. Why should I be bothered by this shit for things I haven’t done? BTW, where I live, to do that, the “rights holders” would actually need prove something – IP proves NOTHING – it is not fit for purpose – settled case law. If they wish to waste their money on this idiocy it’s their decision – don’t try apply it to me. The other thing is that there “rights holders” already impose many back-door taxes on us – levies on media, HADOPI, 3 strikes, 6 strikes etc cost us, not you assholes. Why should I pay for this shit for no return in rights? It’s not my job to protect their monopolistic business interests. F*** O**

        • Guest

          “Teach”? You mean with misleading campaigns that equate plagiarism with copyright infringement? There are a lot of lawyers where I am that pretty much agree that the RIAA frequently has no case because of their shoddy evidence. Heard about Odex? Look it up, and see how far their cases went.

          We can also now formally quote you, Anon, on how you think that downloading music is worse than everything from dodgy drug dealing to child pornography. Nice to know that you have your priorities straightened out.

        • Anyone

          their IP gathering has probably as many false positives as their DMCA takedowns

          so even if you never “illegally” downloaded something you can just as likely be caught in this scheme as someone downloading TBs per month

        • Fredrika

          > “Piracy..//..is vile and the greatest unlawful scourge on the internet today.”

          You seem confused. Real cyber crimes where actual scarce assets goes missing as a result of the crime cost society billions of real dollars each year globally.

          Non-profit intrusions into legislative monopolies causes no economical damage to society at all, because lost sales doesn’t exist. What lost sales really refers to is failure to sell, which in turns causes no economical damage to society, because the money remains and will simply pay for another sale.

        • Heisenberg7

          I like how you have these “one-off” posts and then when several members reply with logical arguments refuting everything you say, you refuse (or are too chicken-shit) to continue arguing.

          Fuck off.

        • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

          Speaking as just one of three hundred million customers who fire up a computer on a Sunday morning, my message to that “pious politician” (along with the messages of all those who are victimized daily be these legislatively granted Copyright Monopolies) is, “I will vote your ass out of office faster than you can say, ‘Jumping Jack Flash’, unless you get off your corrupted ass and change these Copyright laws.”

          You’ll never see that it really IS a new day, as long as you refuse to look past your own propaganda: It is pure self deception to say that the people that oppose Copyright are just a bunch of thieves.

          Guess what?

          They are willing to pay…..just not to a perpetual monopoly.

          They WILL distribute their Creative Work…….efficiently, profitably and equitably……. just not through monopolisticly controlled Corporate distribution channels.

          You need to at least understand the substance of this opposition in order to effectively adapt your maximalist agenda.

          Why? Because your most lethal weakness lies in your most important assumption: The assumption that government will perpetually empower and protect the existing regime of privileged corporate distributors against vast and enraged opposition from Individual citizens. Those 300 million voters are the reality to which you must adapt.

        • Anon

          “the copyright holders want legislation to fuck pirates up the ass”

          “Piracy, the act of copying and distributing without paying is … unlawful”

          I like to contradict myself.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “Piracy, the act of copying and distributing without paying is vile and the greatest unlawful scourge on the internet today.”

          Funny, I thought the people gleefully passing one another pictures of beheadings and children being abused was called the “greatest scourge”. Drug dealing, people calling for the death of their neighbors in the thousands would also be called a “scourge”.

          It’s always enlightening to see where your priorities lie. That one goes into the little box of treasures I like to show the fence-sitters.

    • Anyone

      calling this scheme “education” is like calling creationism “science” or homoeopathy “medicine”, it simply doesn’t fit

      • BuddhaFacePalmed

        Hey, i object to your tone. Creationism is an integral part of a religion where we worship a torture device and consume ritualistic symbols of blood and flesh.

        Just saying. ;)

      • Violated0

        My point was that it was them to call it “educational” where by making the UK’s DEA sound harsh then maybe the UK Government will desire to go “educational” as well or namely turn 3 strikes in 6 strikes.

        The advantage there should now be clear.

  • Guest

    I think the fact that they have no evidence means Verizon and other ISP’s are right to deny the identities. You can’t just say I tracked this IP connecting to this swarm. That proves jack. Even if they uploaded a few bytes to them, that isn’t a complete file. This kind of ‘evidence’ can be easily made up.

    They should call it quits on chasing the consumer and go to the source. The problem is the sites don’t breach any laws. It doesn’t help that their is no international law for the internet, This is how it should be.

  • Anonymous

    what Verizone should be doing is what i have said for a long time and that is to get other ISPs to join them and got to court en bloc. unless and until there is a merger of ISPs and they all keep trying to fight these law suits singly, they are literally going to be picked off one by one. at least together they have a reasonable chance. they need to remember that just because one entertainment company takes the action doesn’t mean it is really alone. we have seen this happen in other cases.

    • Anonymous

      forgot to add that it has been stated time and time again in court that an IP address doesn’t identify a person. more and more judges in the US and elsewhere are throwing cases out based on this. i doubt if this one will be any different, unless of course there was someone from one or more of these adult entertainment companies sitting in front of the accused computers!

  • Guest

    Call for an investigation into plaintiffs’ IP address harvesting technologies.

    Seriously – a decade down the road of RIAA-style collateral damage lawsuits, and how is it that NO ONE has ever called them out on their reliability in actually nabbing the right person? By the way, good job on you guys, Malibu Media. Nice way to bail out after Fantalis called your bluffs. I suppose Nej, Anon and Pelouzey would all like to defend this court-clogging behaviour?

    • MadAsASnake

      It’s why it never actually comes up in a contested case. The “detection” and “matching” are so flawed that many IP’s these idiots scrape off the web don’t resolve at all. Some of Fat Andy’s collections got matching rates around 50%. If 50% couldn’t be matched at all in a saturated IP pool, gives you a pretty good idea how accurate the other 50% are going to be. Even if they get this far – they get your router – and they have no idea at all what happened from there. If I got one of these, I’d fight it and ask them to show the tracing process EVERY step of the way, showing what measures they took to avoid errors (yeah -I know, none at all…).

      • Techanon

        There’s the thing, every time they are contested by a half decent defense, the trolls drop the case. This way they avoided having their “evidence gathering” methods tested in court for years.

  • Hogspace

    This is great. Verizon are big enough and ugly enough, with the political connections, to take these fuckers on.

  • TeeTund

    These anti piracy folks jsut wont give up man!

    Tru-Privacy.tk

    • Anon

      They already have. But thanks for the link I won’t use.

      • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

        Ignore the spammers, and flag.

  • Anonymous Coward

    The way Verizon wants things done is analogous to the Jem’Hadar order of things. The Vorta (Copyright holders) can only discipline the Jem’Hadar first (The ISP), but only the Jem’Hadar first can discipline his men (The account holders)

  • icec0ld

    Should read: Company sued for protecting customer privacy. You know, following the law and protecting a human right. Of course anti pirate scum won’t understand this till they’ve created a copyright police state.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      No, they won’t understand until they are smacked down by the courts and a few of their lawyers are put into jail for contempt of court for pushing this bunkus.

      • Guest

        That will still not stop them.

        • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

          You think they’ve got an army we don’t know about?

        • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

          An Army of Lawyers maybe. lol.

  • david_wr

    This should be an easy one for the judge:

    Require Verizon to turn the information over to a special court master who will conduct an investigation. As long as the special master has reasonable grounds to think that the “true infringer” both exists and can be quickly identified by using existing laws and is not yet identified, the investigation continues.

    Assuming Verizon and any other entity with legally-subpoenable data doesn’t fight turning data over to a special master, in most cases he should have either a “we found the guy you REALLY want to sue” or an “it’s hopeless” for each IP address within a few weeks if not days.

    In the “it’s hopeless” cases, the court should send the bill to the plaintiff with an explanation that there’s no legal way to find the right plaintiff and that Verizon was right to object.

    In the “we found the right guy” cases, the court should still send the bill to the plaintiff but defer collecting until after the suit is over. Presumably, the plaintiff will add this amount to the damages being sought. In the cases where the “right guy” was not the subscriber, the court should remind the plaintiff that Verizon did the right thing by objecting.

    In the cases where the subscriber is the “right guy to sue,” the court should STILL remind the plaintiff that Verizon did the right thing by objecting, citing all of the cases where the “right guy” remains unknown or is not the subscriber.

    Oh, of course, the court should require the plaintiff to show at least some data showing infringement actually occurred OR post a bond for the full cost of the special master’s investigation before allowing the case to proceed.

    • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

      This is not a bad analysis. I consider that your suggestion has application, not only in this particular case against Verizon, but also in the context of Six Strikes.

      I wish only for three things that were not included:

      First: Meaningful recovery for any innocent Customer imposed upon by false allegations. After all, the customer pays Verizon a significant fee (as much as three hundred dollars or more per month, on the presumption that he should be able to enjoy the service without having to suffer abuses and distractions, including having to fend off unwarranted impositions on his rightfully private communications.

      Second: An explicit mechanism providing for significant and effective customer input on the selection of the “Special Master”.
      After all, to the extent that the adjudication process has been; and, continues to be, staffed and managed by Content Industry surrogates (and excludes customer input) it itself becomes the subject of challenge and resistance.

      Third: Although the instant case is against Verizon, I would hope to see the most expeditious access possible for customers in the civil process. Their effective exclusion would be a pity, since Verizon’s direct responsibilities as a regulated carrier are to them, rather than to Content Providers.

      Above all, I want to commend you for your intelligently stated contribution to the discussion.

  • Gen. Eric Guy

    What a bunch of pricks.

  • jizuodeee
  • dat_monkey

    A lawyer named ‘Cashman’? Surely, you jest.

  • DllKing

    two faces act.anyway fight for customers just started imo

  • Eddie

    This is very curious how all these porno companies are pulling this sh*t now. Tell you what: I’ll hire a hooker and use my iphone to make a 15 minute video of her getting banged then get it copyrighted, then give the video to a friend who will upload it to Piratebay, then wait a few months then sue the sh*t out of everybody who downloads it. Cost to me: A hundred bucks. The lawyer gets a cut of the suit money. Yeah, this is legal. What a crock of f**kin shit.

  • rory

    I guess this will justify Verizon throttling peoples net in the future when they are caught downloading huh? be prepared to see some serious fiscal profit losses next year Verizon.

  • Dogboy

    One day you will all grow up. Piracy is a complicated thing, and I’m not trying to say it’s good or bad for the content industry (note I said content industry, not the so called “copyright industry”. I am a pirate, I get loads of stuff for free. I also pay for many games, mostly via Steam. But music and movies… not so much and I do feel a little guilty for that. But most of my pirating is just TV shows. Homeland for example, legal for myself to watch on a legit stream in the UK but it’s always a week behind the USA broadcast, so as a fan I find it irresistible not to just download the new episode. I’m I a criminal because I watch the show a week early?

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      As long as I can buy a song or a movie in four or five different formats – vinyl, VCR, cassette tape, CD…and be considered a “criminal” because I downloaded yet one more copy to view on my PC.

      As long as that stands, copyright must die. That is why “Piracy” is indeed very simple.

      And as long as you have the conviction you state you aren’t a pirate – but a hypocrite. You might as well say that you’ll be getting the movie on TV eventually, and just downloaded it a bit early, given your arguments on TV shows.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Copyright doesn’t have to die, however it needs to be made CRYSTAL clear that non-profit copying is legal.

        • david_wr

          Copyright needs to be stronger than protecting only against moneymaking infringes.

          If I’m an musician and I have a choice between doing live acts, where I can contractually prohibit unauthorized recording as a condition of entry into the venue, or producing recorded music in a world where I have no recourse once someone uploads a copy to the Internet and people’s only incentive to buy a legal copy is for something I offer that can’t be easily copied (e.g. fan-club membership, concert ticket discounts, etc.), I’ll be a lot more inclined to spend my (and my backers’) money on concerts and less on producing studio-quality recordings.

          What DOES need to be fixed is the damages: In no case should the penalty for copying for personal use be more than 3x the actual/common retail price (not an inflated MSRP) plus court costs and legal fees appropriate for the amount being sued over. This means if I illegally download a bunch of music that would cost me $200 at most retail outlets, you should be able to sue me for $600 plus court costs. Since the amount of the suit is so low, the “appropriate” court costs will be my local jurisdiction’s small-claims-court filing fees. Since my local small claims court is designed to not require a lawyer, you will not be able to recover legal fees.

          On the other hand, if I’m a party to trafficking in 10,000 illegal downloads without any kind of remuneration financial or otherwise, then you can sue me for 3x the value of those 10,000 songs MINUS any amount you have recovered from other parties, plus non-small-claims-court fees and reasonable and actual attorney’s fees. Any amount you recover from me will be deemed “recovered,” meaning you can’t go after the other parties for those dollars. In other words, no suing multiple parties to get 6x, 9x, or more than 3x in damages from those not receiving any benefits from the illegal copying.

          The real kicker is going to be determining if the party you are suing qualifies as “personal use” or if he is getting any benefit beyond the use of the music. If I have a quid-pro-quo with another illegal-music downloader to give him access to my library in exchange for him giving me access to his, then we both are “profiting” from our illegal activity, just as much as if I paid him money for access to his library and he paid me the same amount of money for access to mine.

        • Facefuck

          @david_wr
          Nope … wont happen. Check out Steam Sales over the last years, independent game bundles, kickstarter projects, alpha funding. Involve the public in certain areas of the development/creative process, offer a better product, don’t discriminate based on regions of the world (fuck those pesky regional codes). Don’t harass me with antipiracy messages on legally bought media (wether it is TV, audio, gaming or even books). Deliver on the content and distribution channels. Reward your customers for loyalty instead of using scare tactics and mass law suits.

          To adress your example of musicians restricting the recording of live concerts:
          Artists should be aware that just because they came up with some noise and this bullshit suits the dumbass massmedia cocksuckers they are not entitled to count themselves as talented in any way. Talent in appealing to masses while turning out shitty music that won’t even be remembered or played a few months down the road. e.g. 99% on the radio. Yes…surely great artists. They should make money off the net, expect copyright to protect them from property theft and respect fair use (non profit). My Point is. The internet is so big you cannot control each single user. If on the other side of the world someone takes your songs, mixes it with his shit and gets praised and donations up the ass for shit that YOU have crated… well tough titty. Good luck finding that bitch. How do we guarantee that such stuff gets popular? BY SHARING! How do we prevent infringements? Register your music on sharing platforms with strict fair use policies, if you find out your work has been abused you can then sue this asshole for denying you credit and a slice of the profits. Easy as taking a shit no? If it all ends up in the public for nonprofit usage then you at least get the credits for the original work and people will get back at you for more stuff. Come on man. Sharing and socialising is not that bad. Humanity does not have to turn a profit out of EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING we come up with.

          Copyright should be abolished altogether and a new form of law should be set in place to crack down on infringers (the real for-profit-pirates and plagiarists) to protect the public from extortion, scam, privacy intrusions and health risks from fake products. MOST IMPORTANTLY the new copyright should RESPECT the sovereignety of the states which signed into it. No fkin imperialistic self-proclaimed world police wannabe country should be able to SUE the crap out of companies based in other countries. You can sue the international branch that makes business in your country for not following this law but don’t send your fkin trigger happy elite squads to enforce a stupid IP law with tax payers money. Each member that signs this agreement must act according to its regulation. Thus not only protecting its citizens but persecute the plagiarists and infringers that cause harm to international trading. Just like fkin too-big-to-fail banks must get regulated back into obedience. Put the bitches where they belong.

          Fuck the DMCA, the backroom lobbyists, the crooks in our government, greedy coprotaions exploiting the artists and blinded sheeple that believe every word that comes out of an officials asshead. Get with the times, don’t stand in the way of progress.

          We’ll wait and see what Mega will accomplish next year. Maybe even ending the TV monopoly once the older generations gtfo (unbelievable how many people still watch TV) and we can embrace the internet as a whole in society, entertainment and education.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          @david_wr

          Unfortunately we do not live in a world where you can simultaneously go up and down at the same time (unless we’re talking about subatomic scales).

          In real practical terms we can not live in a world where it is possible to enforce non-commercial infringement without also simultaneously abolishing most or all of freedom of communication.

          To expand on that, the version you present as desirable won’t work even assuming sovjet or Chinese-style views of individual liberty. Anything less than that hits a point of diminishing returns extremely fast. Indeed, we’re well past that point. Just look at how the law has changed in the last ten years and take one long look at filesharing and how every attempt has failed to reduce it.

          Today the most draconian western regime to live under right now is ostensibly France where HADOPI actually abolishes burden of proof almost entirely and sidesteps jury and trial process. That monstrosity costs the taxpayers many million euros a year for what appears to be no gain, has brought to court a whopping half dozen people in it’s entire existence – and has utterly failed to make any inroads on “piracy”. Any at all. The only thing to flourish has been the number of VPN providers and the use of filesharing clients generating ad-hoc anonymization.

          The same holds true for the US, Sweden, and any other nation to even try.

          So how would you, as an artist, want it? A venue where a fan base, if you can amass it, can keep you afloat?

          Or one in which in order to prevent unauthorized copying your internet costs are five times as high, you won’t be able to log on without providing a biometric scan and timestamp, and where everything you send or transmit (phone calls, conversation, or images) is subjected to scrutiny by unnamed third parties? Incidentally one where streaming services of any kind and bank transactions online are so difficult to achieve most don’t even bother.
          Those are the minimum effects. Personally i’m leaning toward it not being possible to even maintaining the internet infrastructure at this point at all.

          After that, your claim of damages…

          In a standard bittorrent model, I might be downloading a copy of a song. In the process I might simultaneously be uploading 1/20 of that song to 60 different people. How much would I be complicit in sharing? Aside from directly hacking the computers of everyone involved and tracing the traffic and end-adress there is no way to tell to how many, if any, they in turn have downloaded the song to.

          The above assumes someone has already hacked your own computer and can see that you did, in fact, download and store the entire song to start with by reading the contents of your hard drive.

          On a standard filesharing network you can’t even guess to within three orders of magnitude, how many copies you were “complicit” in making. 1 or 1000.

          Your suggestions, though morally defensible, fails on the grounds that they aren’t feasible. An entire new paradigm of both computer science and law would be needed to implement it – the one of which today seems like magic and the other on of which seems to spring directly from the most dystopian of science-fiction.

          This is generally the problem when people offer well-meaning suggestions in order to rectify what they see as a problem. Unfortunately it usually bogs down to the equivalent of a bright-eyed and well-meaning citizen offering a car mechanic the view that making every car run on square wheels would stop people from speeding…

      • Dogboy

        I didn’t say I wasn’t a pirate.

  • VeriGood

    In 2003, Verizon was the only major ISP to refuse to hand over customer’s identities to the RIAA lawsuit machine.

    Verizon went to court, and as a result of that hard-fought legal battle, ISPs only hand over people’s identities in response to a court order.

  • Guest32

    You are a complete moron. Most here on Torrentfreak are likely over 20 with good education, families and better than average income.
    If you start from the premise that non-commercial file sharing is something one might or should feel guilty about, you are
    not neutral but on the mafia’s side.

    There are no ifs or buts to the argument for the legalization of non-commercial file sharing. Get with us or off the train.

  • JG

    TWC should file an amicus curiae brief. Remind the courts that they won the argument that appeasing all of the thousands of IP lookup requests from the copyright trolls would prevent them from doing anything else as it would eat up too much of the ISP’s resources. They were able to convince the court to allow them to ignore all but like 25 a month (or something like that anyway)…. I’m sure if it’d be problematic to TWC, Vz would have the same issue. Could give them another means of attack.

  • Anon

    “”There is seemingly no incentive for ISPs such as Verizon to aggressively identify infringers on their network,” they tell the court. ” … there is also no reason for them to do so as well. Spreading the ‘net and making movies are two different things, why can’t they see that. They have no authority whatsoever in that domain. It’s good to see someone bigshot company saying “nonyabusiness, move along!” to such claims.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Quite simple. It costs a lot of resources to patrol the internet. The MPAA/RIAA/Ifpi would rather not spend those resources themselves.

      After all, they need that money so they can pay their 50-cent army to troll pirate webpages.

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  • Megan

    Wow. I think I found out more from reading the comment feed than from the actual article! I believe it’s a great thing that Verizon is not going down without a fight. I agree with the statement that there should be more education/information in place for people to understand what type of infringements and laws they are breaking. For example, I know plenty of people (cough, cough) who download music illegally to put on their iTunes playlists. Just to listen to during a workout or on a drive to work. Do they deserved to be sued for thousands of dollars? No, but technically you can’t pick and choose who to punish.

    This is something I’ll be following up on. For the comments as well as for the outcome.

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  • Andrew Lee

    It’s hard to make out what Verizon is up to but I can assure you it’s only being done if it will benefit them in the long run.

  • Guest

    this has got to be bullshit, verizon is one of the most greediest,most corrupt companies on the planet, hands down..

    • BobMail

      Yes, and Verizon is probably looking at this more from a standpoint of costs and effort required, rather than any grand free speech or pro-piracy stance. Quite simply, I suspect they don’t want to have to pay someone to do the work to pull this information for this case, nor do they want to have to do it again in the future.

      Moreover, they don’t want to have to face the whining masses (aka, Torrent Freak readers) who will absolutely bitch if anyone loses a case after they answer a supoena.

      They have all the financial motivation required to try to get out of answering this case.

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