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You Can’t Copyright Porn, Harassed BitTorrent Defendant Insists

A woman who says she was incorrectly accused of sharing copyrighted material on BitTorrent has filed a harassment lawsuit against a copyright troll. Porn outfit Hard Drive productions had demanded $3,400 to make their threatened lawsuit go away but their target not only says she’s innocent and harassed, but also that porn cannot be copyrighted. So, does filmed sex promote scientific progress or constitute useful art? A court may soon have to decide.

pirate pronWhen confronted with an accusation that they have illegally shared unauthorized material online, Internet users quickly realize they are in a Catch 22 situation. Even if innocent, these accusations cost money to deflect, a cost which often exceeds the amount the claimant says it will accept in settlement.

Hard Drive Productions sent one such letter to Liuxia Wong last year, claiming that her IP address had been used to share “Amateur Allure Jen” on BitTorrent.

Wong was told by the porn outfit she could be sued for $150,000, but for ‘just’ $3,400 the whole thing could be made to go away. Many might have chosen to settle at this point, but this California resident bit back and went on the offensive.

As noted by FightCopyrightTrolls, Wong hired Steven Yuen, an experienced IP litigator from the EFF’s subpoena defense list, to go after Hard Drive Productions. It could turn out to be a fascinating case.

In a lawsuit filed at the end of January, Wong says that she did not download the work in question and goes on to attack Hard Drive on a number of fronts including harassment.

Hard Drive report the alleged infringement as taking place March 28th 2011, but Wong says the movie in question wasn’t officially registered until April 22nd 2011. The letters, therefore, “were designed to coerce her into settling the case despite the absence of any facts supporting liability against her.”

The lawsuit further claims that in their letter to Wong, Hard Drive insist that the California resident would be liable for infringement even if her router was unsecured and someone else carried out the act without her knowledge. Wong’s suit dismisses that assertion as “erroneous”.

But perhaps most interestingly, Wong is challenging the notion that Hard Drive can own the copyright to its own work – indeed, that porn can be copyrighted at all.

“Article 1, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, known as the Copyright Clause, empowers the United States Congress: ‘To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries,” the lawsuit details, adding:

“Early Circuit law in California held that obscene works did not promote the progress of science and the useful arts, and thus cannot be protected by copyright.”

The lawsuit goes on to state that Hard Drive’s work does not fulfill the above criteria and in fact depicts obscene and criminal acts.

Wong is asking the court to issue an order declaring that not only is she not liable to Hard Drive for infringement, but that the company’s movie is not copyrightable and is illegal due to Hard Drive engaging in “solicitation, conspiracy to commit prostitution, pimping and/or pandering,” during its production.

Finally, a couple of interesting BitTorrent-related points are also raised in the suit. The first is that Hard Drive did not mitigate alleged damages since the company failed to use the DMCA to have monitored torrents taken down. The second involves the company hired by Hard Drive to do the monitoring.

“….Hard Drive…authorized its work to be distributed by its non-California licensed private investigators, who are in violation of California Business and Professions Code…while they were distributing and participating in the distribution of the work, and/or that Hard Drive is guilty of unclean hands due to its and/or its agents’ operation and use of honeypots, and/or the use of a third-party’s services as honeypots,” the suit adds.

In a sea of carbon copy BitTorrent mass-lawsuits, this case shines out as one to watch.

Gov.uscourts.cand.250725.4.0

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  • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

    Thanks for spreading the word (and linking)!

    This will be indeed an interesting case to watch. I’ll try to add updates to my post when something newsworthy happens. Here is the first one I posted an hour ago:

    It seems that Brett Gibbs, an eccentric copyright troll, the only Prenda Law’s representative in increasingly anti-troll California, will be defending this case. These guys are so greedy… they hesitate to spend a tiny fraction of the money they extorted from alleged file-sharers on an attorney that could match Mr. Yuen! Or simply they are arrogant and detached from reality… I don’t know. A motion to dismiss amended complaint that was filed yesterday is weak to say the least.

    http://ia700809.us.archive.org/15/items/gov.uscourts.cand.250725/gov.uscourts.cand.250725.8.0.pdf

    • Him

      or maybe they know they have already won the case because of who is going to be on the bench?

      • Anonymous

        Fortunately, judges in California have been downright hostile to these guys’ tactics. The district where this case was filed has pretty much become radioactive, and the Trolls have recently begun to move on to other areas of CA.

        Yuen is also asking to have the case transferred to a different judge who heard the original complaint and made some rulings unfavorable to HDP.

        • Guest

          boycott MAFIAA

          #blackmarch

      • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

        Assigned to this case is is a magistrate judge Howard Lloyd. He was on a couple of troll cases, including those filed by Steele’s gang. I couldn’t quickly find out more about his position. Neither pro- nor anti-troll as I see. I will be glad to learn more about him… unless the case is reassigned to a federal judge.

        • Anonymous

          http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/5:2011cv03648/246633/31/0.pdf?1322130829

          Here’s Howard Lloyd granting a Doe’s motion to sever in Hard Drive Productions, Inc. v. Does 1-84, severed all but one Doe. Can’t remember reading about any other instances of a Doe pulling that off. The case cannot be found in PACER now so I assume Gibbs eventually dismissed it like he has done with the other cases eviscerated by Northern California magistrate judges. When Prenda filed their batch of single-Doe cases they filed declinations to proceed before magistrate judges like crazy because all those cases were initially assigned to magistrate judges that had been shredding their cases.

          Looks like Yuen was fortunate enough to have this case assigned to someone who will recognize Gibbs by his stench, although at this point there probably isn’t a judge in CAND who is unfamiliar with these clowns.

        • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

          Let’s not celebrate prematurely – if one of the parties do not consent to proceed with Lloyd, the case can be reassigned to a federal judge.

    • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

      Great work as always sophisticated JD.
      great drama…. not just defending….but striking back : )
      Entertained me for an hour… thx

      DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL
      Is a great move… if it can happen…what with sopa/pipa being at the forefront …

      the trolls are still stunned by that … : Chris Dodd admitted, that opponents’ “ability to organize and communicate directly with consumers” was a game-changing phenomenon that he hadn’t seen in more than three decades in public office …..

      LMAO…. I just read the “”motion to dismiss amended complaint”"…
      paraphrase…
      “”
      Dismiss this… no drama… she evaded all our attempts of reason…
      we never said she downloaded anything…..no drama…it was PROBABLY someone in her house….
      “”

      They seem to have a piss poor case….if the legal technicality’s are overcome.

    • Annie024

      wowwww!!!!!!!! I found a wonderful place for seeking casual lovers and one night stand thing… it is #### casual’mingle. ‘co ‘m ####?What r u waiting for? sign up free and get hooked up right now!!!!Nothing lose if you do not like it.

    • BootyTape.Com

      If you believe you can’t copyright porn, then support these sites:

      http://bootytape.com
      http://webop.me
      http://deviloid.net
      http://pornbay.org
      http://torrents.empornium.me

  • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

    The woman has a point here….. copyright is supposed to only be used for things that ‘improve the human condition’ is how I believe one person put it.

    Now, some people would argue that porn does do that and some people would argue that it does not. Either way, this will be an interesting case.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobby-Marks/1432576223 Bobby Marks

      I could point to several scientific studies that show porn has useful merit in society. I could also point to several types of art that serve far less purpose.

      • http://ericwarnke.com Eric Warnke

        Please post them here.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Wasn’t saying that I disagreed, just that by the letter of the law (which conservatives seem to love) porn cannot be copyrighted because it has no ‘socially redeeming value’ according to them.

      • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

        Doesn’t matter. Whether porn or Pablo Picasso improve or not whatever is irrelevant. It can be copyrighted to avoid commercial exploitation of the production. However, the participants should hold part of the copyright and it should last at most 15 years (if that much). What bugs me is that the pornstars receive a 1 time contribution and the studios keep making money forever, including with legal blackmail. And most unknown pornstars actually receive pretty much nothing compared to the money these ppl make with the work.

        We fall in the same issues with any other copyrighted works: how to monetize on a free sharing world. In the porn scene it might be tricky but let’s just think about it: if one likes a specific pornstar he/she might pay to keep the works coming; or that pornstar may offer live performance – yes, you heard it – I might pay for a live performance of a pornstar I like (not that I have a specific girl I follow now that I’m thinking about it but I do have my favorites); the pornstar can offer their SERVICES for the fans (and I can think of a few pornstars I’d pay to fuck for sure). All what I said is valid for male and female pornstars.

        So one might consider porn not useful and I might consider Picasso a waste of pigment and other raw material used (for the sake of example). In a moralist society we live today I can easily see this happening.

        I agree with Wong. But I also agree that sex is here since the beginning and it is a work of art (I do look at some works with reservations due to the extreme nature of those but who am I to judge the tastes? I can only worry about the health and safety of the girls and guys working but I won’t try to prevent any work from being produced).

    • Yumyum

      i have a sim,ilar situation im acused of downloading a film called the Hurt locker i never seen the movie never heard of the movie, the dates in which i alegedly downloaded this film i wasnt home, ive had my computer scanned by a proffesional and they found no record of this, im completly innocent, and will not settle to Dunlap Grubb and weaver

    • Dmex

      christopher did you go to ahs

    • Duke

      I’m a bit late to the party here, but interestingly enough there are a couple of old English cases on this sort of thing; in Glyn v Weston Feature Film (1915) the work was found not do be protected by copyright due to being “grossly immoral”, as it “advocates free love and justifies adultery”. There was also the case of Stockdale v Onwhyn from 1826 where a book about the life of a courtesan was not protected from piracy (the word used in the case; one of the earlier uses of the term) for the similar reasons; one of the judges pointing out that copyright was supposed to be about encouraging learning”.

      A pity that counsel for the defendant here didn’t seem to know about these cases…

    • Felipe Alvarez

      > copyright is supposed to only be used for things
      > that ‘improve the human condition’

      Do The Wiggles improve the human condition?

    • Guest

      PORNOGRAPHY IS COPYRIGHTABLE YOU FUCKING RELIGIOUS CUNTS.

  • Silme

    So if I have sex, I can be sued because sex aka porn is copyrighted… sometimes I wonder if US is stupid or retarded …

    • Erthwjim

      No, if you have sex and film it you can’t copyright it is what she’s saying. She’s saying porn does not promote progress. She’s saying she can’t be sued even if she did download said film.

      But the USA is not alone in these laws…

    • joker24791

      “To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts”
      If we apply this Constitutional Amendment across the board then there is an enormous amount of movies, TV shows, books, music etc that are not defined by this and such are not protected under copyright law. Egro the MAFFIA’s claims to the copyright infringement is erroneous.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobby-Marks/1432576223 Bobby Marks

        Which is actually the reason that this portion of her argument will fail. Can anyone define useful art?

        • Drostie

          The word “Art” had (in the 1700s, even) much closer ties to the idea of skillfulness than we’ve seen since the postmodern art revolution and the consumerization of photography. To be a painter was to be quite useful, as was being, say, a silversmith. So this statement is also the basis of patent law, which is in some sense the ‘useful Arts’. Probably software design also counts as a useful Art, for that matter — and software copyrights would pass her test. So if you’re insinuating that she “will fail” because according to her, nothing is copyrightable — well, I think a judge won’t see it that way. She’s not being tautological.

          However, the claim appears to be grandiose. That is, it looks like there are many ways for a judge to settle this case without settling that particular issue, and the prosecutor is just throwing it in as a legislative “hail Mary pass” to the Supreme Court — “if nothing else works, then maybe at least I can drag this all the way to a famous case which will get me a great reputation.” That’s a little bit cynical of me, I suppose, but I have a hard time believing that they’re seriously going to push this.

        • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

          @Drosite: that’s close to what I think – throwing this controversial bullet point into the complaint is nothing more than an attention grabber. Yuen would be even more arrogant and detached from reality than Steele & Gang if he would actually believe that this particular claim would fly. Maybe cynical a bit, yes, but still justifiable IMHO: since troll cases are balancing on the edge of legality (yet no doubt being unethical), publicity is much needed for success in crushing trolls.

          I already see many publications jumping on the news, emphasizing only a single, somewhat sensational feature, ignoring all the other (valid) claims. Even if this kind of journalism is yellowish, it is useful as it indirectly turns a lot of public attention to trolls’ “business”.

          Trolls’ success is based on ignorance. If a victim receives a scary letter and he is not capable of digging the answers for his questions, the likelihood of him settling is great.

          If he is capable of independent thinking and can do a quick research, he will learn and understand what’s really going on, and 99% won’t settle.

          Now if the knowledge about this type of lawsuits becomes widespread, even a victim from the former category will say: “wait a minute, I heard about this, and as far as I remember these guys are scammers, and some good lawyers are suing them”: the likelihood of him settling diminishes dramatically, hence trolling becomes less lucrative.

          So, getting back to the initial point: yes, it’s a bit cynical, but means justify the goal in this case 100%. I personally would justify much more questionable means to stop this legal plague.

        • AB

          Today’s history lesson: to the Constitutional drafters, “Science” generally connoted knowledge and learning, and “Sciences” of those days, e.g., cartography, is in reference to copyrightable subject matter. The “useful Arts” language is a reference to patentable subject matter.

        • FlabberGasted

          Which is why copyright laws need to be redefined

        • Anonymous

          true.. they won’t be establish in court what is useful art and what’s not..and hence they won’t be able to definitively say that porn is a useful artform or no. hence, copyrightable!

    • Indeed I am a walrus

      Sometimes I have to wonder whether its the US, or just the person posting who is dumb. Goddamn was that one of the most stupid posts I’ve seen on here.

      Sex = Porn? Porn is “television shows, articles, photographs, etc., thought to create or satisfy an excessive desire for something, especially something luxurious.” Unless you’re puttin your bedtime romps on some kind of media, of course its not porn. And since you are the copyright holder of your bedtime romp anyway, unless you have some kind of inclination to sue yourself, of course you can’t be sued.

      Goddamn man, goddamn.

    • Guest

      well its not the act in particular it is the technique =P such as using the afro flip. when impersonating Bruce Lee in bed your are clearly a sex pirate.

    • It’s a fit-up

      Your existence is proof of prior art.

      • OMGWTFBBQ

        >implying the existence of a creator.

        • Guest

          I lost count, is that creationism or Scientology deference? ^.^

    • kc

      I can safely say you’re the retarded one. I mean, can you fucking read? Do you seriously not know the different between an act of sex or particular act of sex professionally caught on film for the purpose of distribution and profit? Did you get your education from a mudhut in Sudan? Jesus Christ.

    • Oostalker

      I like how you use if and not when ;)

    • Really

      No, you’re retarded. Sex is not a product, its an act. Products are copyrighted, not acts, idiot.
      What country are you from? Are you cosidered normal in your country or is it full of retards like you?

    • Anonymous

      this is the most retarded thing I have ever heard… how is sex the same as porn? you have sex all you want dude, it becomes porn when you film it and distribute it for the viewing pleasures of others…

  • Erthwjim

    hmm interesting, then maybe cheggit could come back.

    • Guest

      at least in California. its nice to know that adult BT has a refuge in CA based on copyright law of one state that differs from the rest of the union.

  • Pingback: Defendant strikes back, sues Hard Drive Productions, targets Steele’s extortion outfit « Fight Copyright Trolls

  • Derp

    As much as I want her to win this case, her argument doesn’t make any sense.

    I don’t like copyright, but if you have it you can’t make arbitrary distinctions on what you do or do not like. Art is subjective and to deny an artist (how vulgar he may be) the same rights as another artist is wrong.

    • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

      I do agree: it’s a terrifying prospect when judges (note that judges in US are not elected but appointed) are empowered to decide what’s art and what’s not (or what’s “useful” art). Although it is clear for me, yo and any sane person that most porn is far from being “useful art”, I wouldn’t open this can of worms…

      All that only stresses how ridiculous and artificial the concept of copyright is.

      As for this specific lawsuit… the claim about the copyrightability of porn is just one of many, and I believe is designed to bring attention to this lawsuit. And this lawsuit deserves it.

      • Anonymous

        Actually, it depends on the judicial position. Some are appointed, some are elected.

      • Boltie

        I can’t go outside and kill people in the name of art. She’s saying you can’t hire prostitutes (cos’ that’s what they are) and call it art. I don’t fully agree but that’s what I get from this.

      • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

        Art is not meant to be useful. It’s meant to fulfill a goal. It can channel feelings, ideas or simply be enjoyable (depending on taste, which is not universal). I’ve downloaded porn just because the girl starring it is pretty despite not liking something in the production. And fuck, there are some videos that are just awesome, it’s not just mindless animal sex. I think it can be copyrighted. But since copyright is broken it falls in the same problems the rest of copyrightable content.

        • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

          Art CAN be useful: I had this eyesore spot on my living room wall for a long lime… Now I hanged a Van Gogh picture covering it: much better!

    • Goest

      yep, art is art and porn is porn. the difference is easy to point out:

      Unless deranged, you won’t mast*rbate or get sexually excited by a piece of art. Whereas the only reason why people watch porn is just that.
      No exception to it.

      • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

        Master of erotica Tinto Brass famously commented on the old-as-the-time question:

        “…Pornography is there to give you an erection. Erotica is there to give you emotions…”

        • Erthwjim

          Yeah, I have yet to watch a porn movie that elicits any sort of emotion beyond an Oh face. Perhaps if they were attempting to do that they should hire people that can act.

          On a side note, I do believe some porn is art, just not most of the stuff out there. Not to say it doesn’t serve a purpose, it’s just not art to me. But then when you can call a few scribbles on a piece of paper art (meaning I can draw as well as some artists) I guess that makes everyone an artist. Now who wants to buy my art…

          . <== I call it "Alone" it's a masterpiece.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Ah, but ‘porn’ does give me an emotion…. LUST! That is an emotion, though one that some people say is ‘bad’.

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          Hmmm, I think both can give you emotions and erections lmao. I’ve seen some pretty awesome porn out there. I just think most porn focus exclusively on penetration (and I doubt any of these guys last that much). There’s more to be explored on porn.

        • OMGWTFBBQ

          @Erthwjim

          Learn 2 read.

          “…Pornography is there to give you an erection. Erotica is there to give you emotions…”

          So yeah of course…

          You have yet to watch a porn movie, that… Because that is porn, not erotica.

          Seriously the level of commenting here is falling faster then a magnet caught in the earth’s gravitational field.

      • Anonymous

        You’ve never been a teenaged boy? They masturbate when the wind blows! More Victoria’s Secret catalogues are hoarded by teenage boys than I’d care to count. Damn, a Sears bra section will do in a pinch. LOL! Perspective…..

        • Still_Wanking

          So do old men ;-)

    • ndmushroom

      It’s far from arbitrary and it’s far from being a matter of personal taste. I don’t like copyright either, but for some strange reason I (and everybody else) took it for granted once it was “there”. This might help change this.

    • Anon

      why don’t you go further and state that, for example, killing (people, animals) is also art , no matter somebody likes it or not?

      people, lets stay sane in these hard copywrong-battling days…

    • Guest

      What the hell are you smoking?

      If California states that porn doesn’t promote scientific progress or constitute useful art, and the Constitution states that anything that fails to promote scientific progress or constitute useful aren’t can’t be copyrighted, then it makes perfect sense to argue that Hard Drive has no copyright to be infringed upon, making its copyright infringement lawsuit complete bullshit.

      Wong’s pissed off and out to ruin these fuckers for trying to extort from her, obviously, and this is a possible way to make that happen. Whether or not California’s findings on porn and the Constitution’s requirements for copyright protection make sense, the strategy is does.

      • Guest

        *useful art can’t be copyrighted

        sleep deprivation fail

    • Yumyum

      theese copyright trolls have got to stop this is complete bullshit, where are they comming up with this ip information that is completly garbage, why are they allowed to monitor my computer when i never downloadedn shit. i have nothing to do with this and i get some letter in the mail saying pay up.. I wont, i contacted the DC bar, they screwed with the wrong person. this is horseshit, and if someone stold my wifi and did this shit your next

  • Anonymous

    another example of extortion by lawyers on behalf of a film company!

    even if she wins, and i hope she does, i wonder how many times the verdict will be appealed?

    • Guest

      the answer is usually 42 but I could be wrong…

  • Pingback: Porn Copyright Case Is One For The History Books | WebProNews

  • Anonymous

    SCREW lawyers. All they want is money and they will jack up the world as much as they can to get it.

    • Rich Dillon

      Youre an idiot.
      Everyone hates lawyers until they need one….

      • Anonymous

        Not true. I’ve needed one and then hated them even more.

        • Anonymous

          she is using a lawyer from the Electronic Frontier Foundation

          http://www.eff.org

          I guess they are doing it for free, fighting for YOUR rights, to

          please cease and desist from using the internet

  • http://twitter.com/akuma_river Brandelyn

    This is quite interesting. Not only did the company violate state laws in trying to sue her and extort money. She went after them on copyright protections and the idea that porn is nothing more than prostitution videotaped.

    There is a difference between porn and erotica…and the Miller’s Test on obscenity is where that difference lies.

    I wonder if the MAFIAA will try to help the porn company in this lawsuit because of the risk it puts to copyright laws being overturned on certain aspects.

    • Anonymous

      Sorry but I totally disagree with what you said.

      Obscenity is a word I totally hate when the opinion of what is obscene varies vastly from person to person, virgins to prostitutes, prudes to sluts. No law should ever be based on such a wild concept which even for a single person can vary based upon their experiences during their life.

      Second is that obscenity is not the dividing line between porn and erotica. In the case of erotica as artistic then the goal is to produce an array of emotions beyond just arousing. Porn is a lot more focused on the banging aspect.

      I have always said if you want to see artistic porn then find out some good French porn when they are ones to know how to promote the beautiful nature of women, highlight their personality, focus on bathing, dressing and grooming, before the main banging in some quite unusual situation.

      • http://twitter.com/akuma_river Brandelyn

        I was using the legal definition as that is exactly why she is saying porn is not copyrighted.

        QUOTE:
        “Article 1, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, known as the Copyright Clause, empowers the United States Congress: ‘To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries,” the lawsuit details, adding:

        “Early Circuit law in California held that obscene works did not promote the progress of science and the useful arts, and thus cannot be protected by copyright.”

        The lawsuit goes on to state that Hard Drive’s work does not fulfill the above criteria and in fact depicts obscene and criminal acts.

        Wong is asking the court to issue an order declaring that not only is she not liable to Hard Drive for infringement, but that the company’s movie is not copyrightable and is illegal due to Hard Drive engaging in “solicitation, conspiracy to commit prostitution, pimping and/or pandering,” during its production.
        /

        The Miller’s Test is the legal test of which a body of work tested on on whether or not it is Obscene (illegal) or Artistic (legal). It is VERY rare for a work to be considered obscene. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

        QUOTE:
        The Miller test was developed in the 1973 case Miller v. California.[2] It has three parts:
        1. Whether “the average person, applying contemporary community standards”, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
        2. Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by applicable state law,
        3. Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.[3]
        /

        The difference between porn and erotica is the male and female gaze, the artistic french porn you speak of is made with the female gaze which is less about the ‘banging’. Put to the Miller’s test most US made porn falls under the male gaze and would more than likely fail the Miller’s test.

        • Anonymous

          The Miller’s test is way too subjective as opposed to objective. I think most porn is a beautiful work of art. But I’m twisted like that. Maybe I should clarify… Porn in my interpretation: Consenting adults performing consensual sex acts. But then there are some that feel the same way about deviant sex acts.

          Are statues of naked people obscene? Some thought so. Various popes defaced many statues as they thought they were obscene. Europe is much more comfortable with nudity than is the country founded by prudes.

          Fuck it. I’m calling for a massive Mazola Party in protest. Everyone get naked!

        • Anonymous

          The Miller’s test is way too subjective as opposed to objective. I think most porn is a beautiful work of art. But I’m twisted like that. Maybe I should clarify… Porn in my interpretation: Consenting adults performing consensual sex acts. But then there are some that feel the same way about deviant sex acts.

          Are statues of naked people obscene? Some thought so. Various popes defaced many statues as they thought they were obscene. Europe is much more comfortable with nudity than is the country founded by prudes.

          Fuck it. I’m calling for a massive Mazola Party in protest. Everyone get naked!

        • http://profiles.google.com/anthonyk6319 Anthony Kennerson

          Sorry, but that is just plain bullshit.

          There is nothing in the Miller Test about “male gaze” or “female gaze”, only that a work of art can be held as “obscene” if it fails all three of the classic tests.

          Also, California is one of only two states that recognizes porn as free speech, thanks to the Freeman decision in the late 1990′s.

          Now, these copyright trolls intimidating the defendant in this case and attempting to blackmail her for downloading porn are simply out of their mind and totally excessive…but the argument in opposition to that that “porn has no artistic value” and cannot be copyrighted” flies in the face of not only modern law, but common sense.

          This is one that calls for one of those classic “We find the defendant liable for copyright, and order the sum of $1 in damages” decisions. Both sides here are using overkill arguments, IMO.

          Anthony

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Quite right, Violated0. I would even go so far as to say that ‘obscenity’ is unconstitutionally vague and therefore any law based upon it is automatically null and void.

  • Anonymous

    I simply love reading that article. Well it goes to show that the best defence is always a good offence.

    What I would most agree with is that American porn is not artistic mostly focused directly at the porn business in CA. If you want artistic then see French porn and not the meat factory America vomits out in fast food format.

    They may have some better luck under “scientific” but it is hard to see how some penis and vagina action can direct enhance our scientific knowledge.

    I did spot once mistake there. This is that no one can use a DMCA take-down notice to try and kill a BT swarm. For one BT sites do not control the swarm, when they only provide data to link to it, then no take-down notice can be used on an ISP against an IP address.

    Beyond that then I love that bulk of claims. The late registration could well be the most successful. Then at a $3400 claim those are sure some greedy bastards.

    • Anonymous

      I’m sure the films in question will be entered as evidence, and to be sure, they’ll have to watch the movie in it’s entirety, and can we assume it’ll be a packed courtroom, since they’ll be showing the evidence? I just hope they give out well buttered popcorn. Or is that Pop Porn? Or just the butter??? Woohoo!

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  • Phil Landry

    Pfffff… Is the something intellectual about pr0n??? So IP can’t apply lol!

  • Peen

    If porn can in fact be a copy protected work, then I am guilty of copyright infringement.

    If I sing a song written and owned by some studio I infringe copyright. Which by the same token when I make my wife gag on my schlong then hit her in the face with it I am indeed violating her as well as the copyright from which the film I just copied.

    My wife is also doing the same as she has the same disgusted looks on her face when I plow her rear and shoot my goo in her face.

    All of these acts I have with 100% certainty copied from one porno or another the same goes for her.

    Please take me to court for copying scenes from your movies without your permission, I would love to see this play out in court.

  • Mistr-l

    this is ridiculous. I am not an avid porn watcher that is for sure, but i believe that if they infringe porn, then most everyone in the government would be screwed, cause most of them likely have all kinds of it all over their computers.

  • Anonymous

    If Porn can be copyrighted then I intend to “Copyright” at least ten different sexual positions !!!

    • Anonymous

      If that ever happen we can knock it up to the next level. Food and drink cannot usually be copyrighted either. However combine them sexually and spray cream on the nipples and elsewhere can now be copyrighted.

    • Anonymous

      I have but one favourite sexual position. It’s called: IN!

  • joker24791

    “To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts”
    Since this is defined in the Copyright Clause of the Constitution, does that mean that anything the MAFIAA puts out that does not fall under those guidelines? If the answer is yes then 90% of the movies, books and music out there violates this Amendment and therefore not subject to copyright protection.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XXGWPO4K2QQFTMDKGWPJOHYX2Y Wayne

    mÿ cö-wörkêr’s stêp-möthêr &#173mäkês $35 êvêrÿ höûr öñ thê iñtêrñêt. Shê &#173häs bêêñ läid öff för 5 möñths&#173 bût läst &#173möñth hêr chêck wäs $1727 jûst&#173 wörkiñg öñ &#173thê iñtêrñêt för ä fêw höûrs. Rêäd&#173 mörê öñ this sitê…. &#173LazyCas&#173h10.c&#173o&#173m

    • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

      flagged for telling me: “”your step-mother makes $35 every hour on the internet”"

      no she doesn’t spammer….. she earn $1 every hour on the street corner.

      • BooBooKittyPhuck

        “no she doesn’t spammer….. she earn $1 every hour on the street corner.”

        She earns that much?! She should go into porn… <3

  • Anonymous

    If somebody was still doubting about geeks being puritans …

  • Guest

    selling porn is like being seillg prostitutes not much difference

    • Guest

      selling porn is like seillg prostitutes not much difference

      two people F*** and get paid

      put unlike prostitutes the men all so get paid payed

      how can you copyright sex how silly we all have sex

      • http://profiles.google.com/artfulldragon TL Dragon

        There are male prostitutes :)

  • B6485486

    I would argue that a large swath of movies, music, and even books could be categorized as “obscene works that do not promote the progress of science and the useful arts”

  • JoshLondon

    So with the risk of HIV transmission, is filming unprotected sex, especially in gay pornography, tantamount to a snuff film?

  • JOSEPHINE

    @Him my bûddy’s m?th?r i? l?w mad? $8,2?8 l?st m?nth. sh? w?rks ?? the int?rn?t and driv?s a BMW 6-series ??ùp?. All sh? did w?s g?t lù?ky and f?ll?w th? inf?rmati?n you ?an fi?d h?re.. MakeCash2.com

    • BooBooKittyPhuck

      You’re a whore, Josephine. And so is your “m?th?r i? l?w.”

      Retard.

    • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

      lmao.. your spammer history is fukin hilarious…..
      Your method of getting past spam filters is ingeniously stupid…

      “”"
      bûddy’s m?th?r i? l?w mad? $8,2?8 l?st m?nth. sh? w?rks on th? i?t?r??t

      ??ighb?r’s h?lf-sist?r m?d? $9,??? l?st mo?th. sh? w?rks on th? i?t?r??t

      r??m?te’s sist?r-i?-l?w m?d? $?,1?? last m?nth sh? w?rks on th? i?t?r??t

      b?st frie?d’s m?th?r i? l?w m?d? $?,?2? last m?nth sh? w?rks on th? i?t?r??t

      ??ighb?r’s aù?t m?d? $8,?o? last m??th. sh? w?rks on th? i?t?r??t

      c?-w?rk?r’s ?x-wif? m?d? $?,?8? last m??th. she w?rks ?n the i?ter?et
      “”"”

      YOU “”w?rk ?n the i?ter?et”"…. as a spammer ..
      How much did “”you m?k? last m??th”" from pyramid spamming schemes ?

      LMAO

  • Mwhahaha

    If sex can be copyrighted do we have to take out a licence to fuck now?

  • Ernesto Amenabar

    It’s an interesting point, but there is no way in hell that they won’t grant copyright rights to pornography (also known as adult entertaining), because it would open the gates to discuss which forms of entertaining, that in most cases don’t contribute to spirit of promoting the science and useful arts, should have copyright for example: video games, commercial movies, commercial books, TV programs, sports events, etc.

    • MarcheRyanrou

      Hate to break it to you but video games would have there ass covered on the science side. They all show clear signs of improvement in graphics software, cpu AI and such. And tv programs such as cartoons would be covered as well as once again, graphical improvement of modern shows, improved audio filtering and such. Commercial movies would also likely be covered if they had special effects since those would count as promoting improvements in science. but books…. yeah, those might not be so covered….

  • Fhhddsgsgfgfggsdgsfg

    They picked on the wrong Chinese soccer mum to battle it out with.

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  • http://twitter.com/WaltFrench Walt French

    I’m curious: suppose somebody created TorrentFreek.Com, and religiously copied all the articles to create a near-perfect-clone look-alike site? And then used various SEO or other tricks to pretty well guarantee that if somebody wanted discussions of these issues, they’d get sent to TorrentFreek? Got the word out that Freek was the new and improved Freak?

    Meaning, that while your mission of publicizing all the concerns would have been picked up by somebody else, all the costs of running your site would no longer be defrayed by any ads, since all the traffic went elsewhere. Your writers would continue to see their name on articles (perhaps with misspellings?) or perhaps a pseudonym would replace them. Nothing would change except your traffic would be pulled out from underneath you.

    Doesn’t seem a terribly likely situation, but inasmuch as you’re pretty much proclaiming that nobody has right to copyright of intellectual or artistic material, what would you be able to do about it?

    What would you WANT TO do about it?

    • nikto

      They would stop writing. And would post a ‘we are no longer posting material unless people visit torrentfreak.com instead of torrentfreek.com’ notice.

      Let’s see the media industry ‘stop posting.’

      Oh wait, the profit margin is still fat enough.

    • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

      Don’t underestimate the interwebs’ capability of sorting out the question of originality. As a matter of fact, there is a legion of such sites. Since this article linked to my blog, today I received more than a dozen of pingbacks from piggybackers. Now go ahead and write them asking about their traffic and “ad revenue”.

    • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

      I can’t speak for Ernesto and the TF team……but…will chirp in.

      “”you’re pretty much proclaiming that nobody has right to copyright of intellectual or artistic material”"

      If it can be copied endlessly at no cost…. it is physically worthless. That’s reality of the universe as is. eg…. Gold is valuable for a reason.
      So why should a “punishable by law” monopoly ….be created to protect the creators of physically worthless stuff ?

      Personally…. I DO proclaim…”"nobody has right to copyright of intellectual or artistic material”"

      “”Suppose somebody created TorrentFreek.Com, and religiously copied all the articles to create a near-perfect-clone look-alike site?”"

      That’s akin to identity theft / fraud / hijacking. There are ways to deal with that.
      Readers would know.
      Most importantly….. rule one of internet stories….
      “”SOURCE ….. or did not happen”" check the BBC for torrentfreak articles pasted in…. they provide a source..

      The quality of the articles….
      The obviously huge amount of time spent creating…
      The devotion to cut through the “press release” propaganda bull…..
      The openness of user interactions….
      The writers ..
      The users… etc….

      TorrentFreak is more than just a worthless piece of info….it’s an experience.
      You can’t copy an experience….. unless you clone Ernesto & crew

      SUDO ? ( your comment…a Trojan ..point maker …epiphany creator ?)

      IF movie makers …..
      provided free high speed downloads of their movies on THEIR website ….
      WHY would anyone want to fileshare ?
      WHY would anyone want to go elsewhere ?

      The technology EXISTS…. filesharers use it.
      oops… the secret is out….
      $19.99 for a movie… WTF… BUT it can be copied endlessly for no cost.
      Reality is reality…

    • Guest

      @Walt

      If TorrentFreak’s traffic was pulled out from under it, then its bandwidth costs would dwindle. They wouldn’t need to pull in as many visitors in order to pay the bills. Shit would even out.

      You didn’t pick a very good analogy.

    • Anonymous

      Uh…. In your world without copyright… Uhhh…. Wouldn’t torrentfreak have pretty much 0 content? This is an illogical issue given that most of the content on here is as a result that torrents are illegal. The articles, like this one, are on the copyright legal issues. So…. Again…. Logically, what do you think a website who’s tagline is “The place where Breaking News, BitTorrent and Copyright Collide”….. So…. What exactly would the BitTorrent news collide with in this fictitious world without IP? Like seriously that argument is BEYOND stupid….

      • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

        This comment is beyond beyond stupid,even insulting – implying that TF’s authors can’t do anything but write about these issues. Yes, TorrentFreak as we know it would cease to exist in a hypothetical no-IP world, but there would be a different TorrentFreak, and given the Ernesto’s, enigmax’ and other author’s obvious journalistic talents and technical expertise I don’t have a slightest doubt that it would be even more popular.

        What happens to a talented violinist if for some reason violins are banned? He learns how to play piano and continues bringing joy to our hearts.

        Only gatekeepers and trolls who are unable to adapt are whining about perpetually changing world.

        • Anonymous

          You clearly don’t know how to read. Show me once where I commented on the authors or creators of the website? Clearly I didn’t…. In your example, TorrentFreak is the violinist. The idea of someone copying said violinist is moot given that they are now a pianist… Can you follow your own point? Reading comprehension much?

          Did I once even mention the others, positive or negative.. Did I mention there ability to adapt? or create new content? No…

          Hell, show me the words he, she, them, Erensto, enigmax or other authors? Oh wait… You can’t… Because that’s not actually what I said…

          I just said, conceptually, the idea of a website being copied as a result of no copyright laws given that the website is a copyright news website is beyond stupid…

          going back to your violinist example. This example doesn’t even grasp the actual concept. It’s more like a bunch of political activists fighting for women getting the vote.. Once women get a vote, a group to give women the vote is moot. That group would then go on to fight further injustices because the one they were currently fighting was won….

          Does that make sense to you? or am I too stupid to make a comment that you understand?

          I clearly come here for love of the amazing articles, just like you. No need to defend the authors of slights that were never actually made…

          Try READING what was said, instead of replying to what you guess I meant but didn’t actually say…. That way in the future, perhaps we could have a discussion on what is actually said, not just your cracked out misinterpretation of quite literal words.

          And in fact, your post is more whining then what I’ve said. I was actually pointing out the absurdity of the initial complaint that copyright laws are there to stop this website form being mirrored. That point is moot based on everything I’ve said.

          Sorry you find implications and information that hasn’t actually been stated.

          I’m sorry you find attempting to comprehend straightforward concepts as being insulting. Perhaps this isn’t the right place for you to be reading the news if you fail at understanding this basic logic. Fox might be more up to your speed.

        • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

          Wow.

        • Anonymous

          Your reply of “wow” says it all. Couldn’t find my insults to the authors of the website? Good work. :D

  • Anon

    Not sure I’ve ever seen TF staff ever argue for complete removal of IP. Just for more sensible copyright limits that favour the public domain. Of course I may be wrong but it’s not for me to defend their position.

    Beyond that, the people who regularly view this site are to my estimation a loyal bunch. Donation model would not be out of the question.

    I would also imagine that if this site was phished, the kind of people who religiously come here would not have too many problems returning it to its previous state whilst simultaneously decimating the usurper.

    It may be my ignorance, but I’ve “not seen you here before” in my times of lurking.

    I can’t quite tell if you’re insinuating that your rights have been infringed or not. Certainly there is nothing on your twitter or homepage to suggest as much.

  • Alyssa Blindy

    Well. This case could, possibly be a game changer.

  • Anonymous

    Sounds pretty reasonable to me dude. Wow.

  • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

    So if I’ve got this right, This woman gets sued for porn, so she goes to the EFF for a lawyer. He comes up with every single way to get out of this, every plausible defense, including questioning their business practices, finding a loophole in the time they filed for copyright, bringing up california law and obscenity rulings, and presenting their poor research in using IP addresses as a source of evidence.

    The porn studio, on the other side, gets this Ken Rosenberg sort to put something together to keep it from getting out of hand.

    I mean, she’s got an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink defense to begin with, which isn’t very faith instilling…but on the other hand, she also has the EFF, and Hard Drive has some guy who graduated from Hollywood Upstairs Law School and probably was an extra in their last movie (shooting completed 6 PM this evening after a grueling 3 hours)

    Should be interesting to see. The trial, I mean, not….nevermind.

  • Horsemeat

    If porn isn’t copyrightable then neither is 99% of the films the film industry pumps out unless it is educational or is art, fair enough films can be art but a lot of it is not, especially the remakes of classics stories that are no longer or were never in copyright.

    But technically she is correct. Although if the said porn film has a soundtrack, story or some kind, and original artistic imagery then it would e copyrightable, and a lot of porn films do have a lame soundtrack and story with them so I think she does not have much of an argument.

    Unless the video is just two people having sex in front of a camera then that might not be copyrightable.

  • Rplatypus

    Interesting defense, will be curious to see how this plays out. I agree with Ernesto Amenabar that this strategy has little chance of working though. Most porn movies have at least some kind of storyline, however ludicrous it may be, so the courts would have to then decide if a movie is a pornographic film or a film that may have some pornographic elements to it. If this stategy worked it would be up to individual judges to distinguish between the likes of Monster’s Ball, Boogie Nights and Shaving Ryan’s Privates. While it would be comical to watch such scenarios play out, it seems very unlikely.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Don’t bet on it. There have been many other cases where people have said “This reasoning/strategy won’t work!” and it actually did work.

    • thunderclap morgridge

      excluding the picture above, the oh the babysitter is masterbating in the bed, lets screw her isn’t a plot. Nor is pizzaboy arrives with dick in the box. 85% of all porn is plotless.

      • Rplatypus

        And then it would be up to a judge to decide what constitutes a plot. People have dfferent views. The pizza boy scenario may not be a plot to you but it could be an Oscar nominee to someone else.

  • http://www.r-gate.net/ Mohamed Tair

    If Porn can be copyrighted then I intend to “Copyright” …..

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  • foff

    I propose the masturbate test. If it makes you want to drop your pants and do the business then it is porn not useful art.

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  • Callmevil

    considering that porn led way for VHS to render Betamax obsolete and Bluray to kill HD-DVDs.. I believe Porn does contribute to science and improve human life as the surviving tech (as a result of porn directions) is more superior over the other…

    • Loller

      Beta was superior to VHS, genius.

      /rolls_eyes.jpg

  • B6510963

    If porn copyright is upheld as valid, then many porn studios have many lawsuits against each other — for stealing each other’s intellectual property: nearly identical storylines, dialogue, and nearly shot for shot cinematography…..

    There have been lawsuits over lesser musical similarities and performances.
    This could be huge!

    • Anonymous

      That’ll keep the courts tied up for the next century (not a bad thing as then they’ll be too busy suing each other to sue people for copyright infringement).

  • AnonJack MurlouzeLaviestyles

    Your days are numbered, SJD. We here, as the antipiratical army on TorrentFreak, will not stand for such blatant disrespect of our regime. First Andrew Crossley, then Evan Stone, now this.

    You have been warned, you filthy pirate, you.

    • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

      :) You forgot to mention Kevin Ford.

  • Jmorse43508

    I think this claim by her is enough to ruin Hard Drive Productions’ case against her, if there is even a case at this point. The plaintiff’s claim is likely on very shaky ground to begin with, and this counterclaim by her could put their entire speculative invoicing scheme in jeopardy.

    I seriously doubt they will pursue this all the way to court. If they do, they are dumber than ACS:Law was.

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  • Pmorgan_m3

    PORN is at the very least materially different than the “Useful Art” the Framers intended to protect. The fact that one has to be over 18 to view or purchase porn magazines, movies, etc. is supportive of this argument. One does not have to be over 18 to view nude paintings, sculptures, etc. in museums, art magazines, or even on television at all hours in documentaries or other media in which such works of Useful Art may appear. Porn may not be obscene, or even if considered obscene it may not warrant a complete ban since that would conflict with right to free speech and expression, however copyright is merely intended to give commercial protection. Denying copyright to porn would not ban or prohibit its production in any way but merely deny it commercial protection. I would argue that no community in the USA even the most liberal community would think that porn needs the commercial protection that copyright confers to “encourage” its production in the way the Framers intended for “Science and the Useful Arts.” Furthermore, I would argue that the removal of copyright from porn is not even likely to limit the amount or type of porn produced since the porn industry generally operates without residual long term payments being made to its creators…so the existing structure of the industry does not use the long term commercial protection that is in fact the essence of copyright.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Might not want to refer to that “Over 18″ argument, because there are many people like myself who would LOVE to return children/teenagers right to sex back to them.

      We keep on trying to tell children/teenagers that they are not supposed to be sexual, yet they are born with fully-functional genitalia? I don’t think so!

      • http://profiles.google.com/artfulldragon TL Dragon

        This is an exceptionally stupid statement. Yes we are born with “fully functional” genitalia, but genitalia’s main purpose is not sex.

        It is not until puberty that the reproductive aspect of genitals even come into play. The fact that the body is technically ABLE to reproduce, does not mean that it is able to do so effectively or safely. Things must mature.

        Now then, once puberty hits and there has been some time to adjust, yeah the say so about sex belongs to the individual having it. Laws or no laws the under 18 crowd DOES have a say so. Teen Mom would be proof of that.

        None of this of course masks the fact that you are a sick perv who wants to fuck little kids. Because assholes like you can’t be murdered as a service to humanity, we have retarded laws. Now then, when you and your kind choose to do the right thing and insert a bullet into your extremely fucked up and worthless brains, we can remove laws that penalize older teens for making their own sexual choices.

        I will agree to remove laws restricting “sex” with children when the law allows me to beat you to a bloody puddle and drag you behind a vehicle at high speed for molesting little kids. :)

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    The reference to the DMCA and rights holders not (or not sucessfully) using it when combined with the feds increasingly aggressive take downs of sites starts to create an interesting double edged sword for the authorities and rightsholders if or when they start going after run of the mill filesharers/downloaders.

    If you go down your sanitised high street and buy /acquire goods or services, the user is not liable if found in possession of counterfeit/pirated goods as he is protected under law to the expectation that as the high st is so heavily regulated, he purchase/acquisition was legitimate.

    Increasing regulation of the net where ‘illegal’ content is removed under DMCA and the feds act as world police, killing any site their paymasters dont like, users have, like on the high st, got an increasingly viable defence that if the item was sourced from a com/org/net etc site it must be legal. which will give an increasingly valid defence against a 3 strikes policy.

  • QuadSlacker

    Awesome, now we can bring back Empornium!

    A new day dawns…

  • Guest

    “You Can’t Copyright Porn, Harassed BitTorrent Defendant Insists”

    Yes you can say the corporate fantasy word while corrupting the real word governments.

    So I just applied for a patent on Fucking and breathing.

    A cease and decease injunction will be sent soon to all the corporate parasites and their lawyers.

    So stop breathing for the next 20 years or face prosecution, parasites. Alternatively you can jump off a bridge.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000291242845 Jack O’Neill

    Can it truly be an illegal download if it was uploaded legally with the intent to be downloaded?

    If the issue is that while downloading, she facilitated the downloads of other people by uploading the data she had. Then can it be illegal uploading if it was legally uploaded with the intent of it being downloaded in a place known for maximizing download speeds by utilizing user uploads?

    • Aannoon

      Perhaps she should charge for the bandwidth it took LOL

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  • Anonymous

    The actual porno from the caption (“Pirates”) deserves more protection than most of the “art” coming from “legit” Hollywood.

    I’ve jizzed gallons to that masterpiece.

    Do they have a bitcoin address for me to donate?

  • http://profiles.google.com/artfulldragon TL Dragon

    Hmm, the only real argument here that I can see has any validity involves not so much the sex, but the people having it. Penis in vagina can be done by ANYBODY (leave the semantics you catch my drift) but if you want to see a specific penis in a specific vagina, that has to be arranged and purchased.

    If you want to see Jenna Jamison doing the deed, you have to pay her.

    Of course, my status as an attached lesbian with quite frankly no interest in porn (Not a statement on porn or its viewers, I’d just rather HAVE sex than watch other people do it) and no clue as to why prostitution can be deemed illegal makes any thoughts or pondering I have on that matter pretty fucking close to completely worthless. :p

    Definitely look forward to seeing the arguments on this case.

  • Guest

    Someone SEED THIS SHIT! (unless you think you’ll be in trouble)
    I don’t care if it’s 3D pig disgusting, I just want to facepalm at how much they ask for it… I’ll seed it to 10.0 in return.

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  • sexisnature

    If you pay for a room, pay for a woman and have sex its called prostitution and its is illegal.

    If you pay for a room, pay for a woman, film the sex to make profit, its called porn and its legal.

    Do any states or cities still call prostitution “crimes against nature”? Seems like
    abiding by the laws of nature to me.

    Fucked up country we live in.

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  • Tsports53

    first off prostitution is legal in nevada btw. there is some stipulations from what i have heard not in city limits most times
    second straight porn is actually obscene (thats people getting together filming their acts) charges were brought to the porn industry on basis of violating morality as people have stated “obscene works”. the supreme court watched porn themselves and determined that people getting together doing things on film is indeed obscenity (paraphrasing indeed its interesting to read about) they determined it has no worth to society at all basically… (no arts or science ect involved) how the porn industry gets away with making films non-obscene is by adding art… this was a stipulation by the supreme court. it had to have elements other than just sex.
    now a days porns have plots… costumes… music… scripts… and other stuff
    they could always have a line up of professors of theater or production or people in the industry to come testify that their film is indeed artistic in some way and not obscene. even though films of this nature arent scripted well or have well thought out plots or big budgets such as hollywood style movies in general its still a form of “art”. they have fufilled the requirements of the supreme court
    now onto california and the lawsuit… the case might have merit if just looking at the california statute… however taking into account the supreme court descision and the porn industry taking those guidelines into use… therefore if the film in question has “art” related stuff in it then it can not be considered obscene and therefore can be copyrighted… logically it follows that this is true based upon the supreme court
    how can this be true? states have self-rule they need to manage themselves however states get their money (a majority of it for roads ect) from the federal government so the federal law supercedes state law. consider it like an umbrella states are under the umbrella keeping dry while the federal government is protecting them by taking the rain head on.
    taking all this into account… she has no merit as far as calling it uncopyrightable… her lawyer if they were any good would actually point this out…lawyers try to blaze their own path many times… so they do some odd stuff counter intuitive (to the normal joe)a good deal of the times
    as far as her pay up or else problem i think it should be thrown out on the basis of when it was copyrighted vs when she was hit up for the filesharing suit

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Sorry, but again….. VERY OLD DECISION IS VERY OLD! There is a very good chance that the new Supreme Court would rule totally differently this time.

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  • Treasurechecks232

    It’s a invasion of privacy to monitor anyone’s internet use without a court order.
    So I am wondering how exactly is this person’s IP being tracked in the first place?
    I would also agree with wong’s positions well. But my first question is.. was their a court order of approved monitoring of wong’s IP address/traffic

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  • Guest

    however you are paying people to have sex – that is prostitution
    no if and or butts (sorry for pun).

    if there was an exemption for having a plot and art – then a prostitute could claim this as a defense

    there is a law – that states you cannot sue another party while engaging in any unlawful acts (look at the fact you are paying people to have sex to make a porn video).

    ie you cannot sue a john for not paying or for an audiance watching it

    this would extend to porn…never mind that it’s the film company – they are acting as agents for the actors

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UJ4XRIA3A3E6MYGK755EGWLN4Q Dani A

      actually, some prostitutes HAVE claimed that as a defense.. :p

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Actually, the prostitution laws infringe on the right of people to “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”. If someone wants to sell their body, it is NOT the place of ‘da law’ to tell them they cannot do that.

      We should only intervene if we can prove that someone else is making that person in question sell their body and only go after the person who is doing the forcing.

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  • Anonymous

    of course you can copyright porn. It’s a pretty laughable defense. Since 1903 there has been the principal of aesthetic nondiscrimination. Judges aren’t going to decide what is artistic. It only needs to be “minimally creative.” Justice Oliver Wendall Holmes said as much. It’s been upheld numerous times. And they aren’t going to ban protection just cause it’s porn. It’s a slippery slope. Then they’ll be pushed to decided if a movie with to many sex scenes is porn and thus not copyrrightable, books with sexy depicted in the text.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Might not want to “Poo poo” this so quickly. There is no consensus among lawyers that this woman’s case has no chance. In fact, from what I have been reading, it’s about an even split.

  • Asdfasdf

    OK, when the shit hits the fan it’s not going to matter whether this movie fits into an “art” genre. The only thing that will matter is if it is a commercial product (someone is making money off of it) and they are willing to b1tch about it. That is it. If some big corporation doesn’t like how you use or get their product then someone is getting sued whether the law is in the books or not. Sad and unfortunate but true.

  • Guest

    Women aren’t known for their intelligence.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      You trolling, boy? I know plenty of women who are extremely intelligent…. it’s just that you see more of the stupid ones in the press and even on Capital Hill so you don’t have a proper standard to compare to.

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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6FHRUFBE64PTIOYLBTVV577RVI QuestionGeek

    Oh my God. I can’t freakin’ believe this. If porn cannot be copyrighted, then what is that disclaimer and legal warning they are babbling about at the beginning of each studio released porn dvd, that’s been coded so you can’t fast forward through it? Hmm, interesting to see how this case turns.

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  • QBoyer

    As I understand it, works that are considered “obscene” cannot be copyrighted, but obscenity is determined on a case-by-case and community-by-community basis, under the Miller Test.

    In First Amendment jurisprudence, at least, no work is presumed to be obscene — in fact, it is the opposite: all creative works (outside of patently illegal depictions like child porn) are presumably protected by the First Amendment, and are assumed to NOT be obscene until after the trier of fact, be it a judge in a bench trial or a jury, determines them to be such.

    Wong may have a problem here, in that none of the works in question have even been indicted as obscene, much less determined to be obscene through a fully adjudicated trial. I’m not a civil litigator, so I suppose it is possible that there’s some twist of civil litigation that would allow the judge/jury in this case to determine that the works are obscene, but I sort of doubt it, as obscenity is a criminal matter.

  • asdf

    [i]testing… sorry[/]

  • asdf

    [i]testing… sorry[/i]

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