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Anime Distributor Dubs Using ‘Pirated’ Subs

In an attempt to crack down on pirating anime fans, American anime distributor Funimation announced lawsuits against 1337 alleged BitTorrent downloaders two months ago. An unusual move, and perhaps even a tad bit hypocritical, as behind the scenes footage from the Funimation dubbing room has now revealed that they themselves are using ‘pirated’ subtitles.

dubWe see it time and time again. Copyright is a double edged sword, and those who sharpen one side often get cut by the other.

In January, American anime distributor Funimation took action against 1337 alleged BitTorrent users, suing them for sharing episode 481 of the anime show One Piece. Funimation requested that the defendants pay damages and destroy all the content they’ve downloaded using BitTorrent.

Since the inception of BitTorrent there have always been very active communities where anime torrents are shared, but Funimation felt it was time to draw a line and sue their users. In the past they have have also been very critical of fansubbing sites, where anime fans create and share their own subtitles that often complement pirated copies.

In the light of the above it is a bit hypocritical, to say the least, that recent footage from the Funimation dubbing room revealed how the company itself was using ‘pirated’ subtitles.

This oddity was picked up by a member of the Anime News Network (ANN) forum and the evidence comes from an episode of America’s Greatest Otaku.

Although the actual translation of the show comes from the producers, the styling of the subtitles is clearly that of Horriblesubs, a site that provides subtitles for ‘pirated’ shows. With the many variables involved it is nearly impossible that this styling would have been replicated by accident, so it’s safe to conclude that Funimation is using subs from a ‘pirate’ source in their dubbing room.

Dubbing room subs

funsub

Horriblesubs subs

funsub

But does this mean that Funimation broke any laws? Not necessarily.

After a lengthy discussion in the forums ANN CEO Temptest – who’s very familiar with licensing agreements – joined the discussion with a good summary of the situation. There is no doubt that Funimation is using ‘pirated’ subtitles, but it seems unlikely that they failed to secure the appropriate rights.

As most licensing deals include the right to use subtitles, and since the translations were done by the original owner of the content, Funimation has all the rights to use the Horriblesubs copy. The only question is whether the font used by Horriblesubs was properly licensed by Funimation.

But of course this revelation isn’t so much about the letter of the law, but more about the hypocrisy of an Anime distributor that is so critical of BitTorrent and fansubbing yet is using ‘pirated’ subtitles. Apparently they find value in a product that wouldn’t exist without the very community they are so committed to cracking down on.

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  • Eustachy Kapusta

    huh, Horriblesubs = crunchyroll http://www.crunchyroll.com/ 1:1 rip from the site, they didn’t do anything to show besides ripping it and muxing as mkv

    • Article is useless…

      What this fine individual said. HorribleSubs rips of Crunchyroll (which is the official EU translator, if I’m right) to 100%, which means that there is almost no article here.

      • Ssssj

        u eseless too.

      • http://0x50.co.cc Dunyas

        From what I understand, Crunchyroll uses translations provided by it’s members, at least that is what they talk about in the terms of service. I’m guessing that Crunchyroll gains licensing rights from the Japanese and American distributer to air the video. It then hands the video to it’s translation teams made up for people who are probably are/were fansubbers. These are not technically official since the distributing company didn’t make them. They are not pirate translations either since the licensing agreement specifically note that this is what they are doing. If they are using these translations as their own, it’s kind of sleazy. The licensing agreement probably protects them, but it’s not really fair to the fansubbers. Once of the reasons anime is so expensive to buy is because you are paying for the localization team. If Funimation is using fansubbers for it’s localization teams, then they are probably saving a lot of money. Hopefully this gets pushed down to the consumers, but you never know.

        • XThe X

          Crunchyroll doesn’t use translations provided by its members, it hires people and groups to provide them just like any other licensing company would.

          The only reason anime is “expensive” is because of how much it costs in Japan.

        • http://0x50.co.cc Dunyas

          Crunchyroll refers to it’s translators as members in it’s ToS. You’re probably right is saying they hire them. My point is that Crunchyroll is making the translations, using funds from it’s ads and users, and Funimation is not.

          If I go out and buy a volume of One Piece or something, not only am I paying for the original Japanese product that Funimation licensed, but also all the work Funimation put into it as well. When Funimation bought the rights to One Piece, they basically get a complete product. It pays a price to Toei who intern pays the individuals involved in creating the show. But the product is unsellable in Funimation’s market. So Funimation has to hire people like translator, writers, voice actors, graphic artists, and marketers to make the product ready for sale. These people all want to get paid too. Funimation uses the money it makes from the sale of those DVDs to pay those people.

          The problem with Funimation using Crunchyroll’s translations is that Crunchyroll’s customers are paying for them to be done. I would expect that if Funimation is using Crunchyroll’s translations, then it’s part of some licensing pact. If so, that would mean that Funimation’s localization cost would go down, and that should be reflected in it’s product.

        • Zdgfdsf

          There localization might go down a little by using Crunchyroll subs but they still got to pay Crunchyroll to use there subs so they are not saving that much money

      • Anon

        Retard. You think crunchyroll provides these styled .ass subtitles?

    • Blah

      If you read the link the guy that brought up explains why it’s not the same as Crunchyroll’s version, in that the style of font used is different and they’re using .ass subs rather than what CR uses in their videos.

    • asdf

      They used the HS rip of the CR, not the CR version.

    • Anonymous

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  • JoGuest’s Norks

    Action against “1337″ users?
    Has someone got a tongue in their cheek?

    • Freaky

      They wanted to be leet too and so they sued 1337 people!

      • ePeen

        Their ePeen must be fucking huge!!! HUGE!!!

    • http://twitter.com/ezee ezee

      It’s their moronic sleezebag lawyer.
      He wanted to “send a message to the hacker leet” that he was onto them…

      If that does not say what a big moron he is, just read the rest about him.

  • otakette

    No, Funi did sue 1337 people. Of course, it isn’t going so well for Funi in the courtroom.

  • Anonymous

    “There is no doubt that Funimation is using ‘pirated’ subtitles, but it seems unlikely that they failed to secure the appropriate rights.”

    There are at least two separate legal issues here. First off, it’s fine for FUNi to download fansubs if they have the legal rights to distribute the thing to begin with. But it does not follow that FUNimation automatically has zero obligation to reimburse or acknowledge the fansubbers who did the translations, assuming it can be proven that their dubs are a derivative work of those translations.

    Now, if they are only using subs done by CR, and CR says it’s OK, then there is never going to be any legal action, and this is a nonissue. But if they are using subs by fansub groups, without getting their OK, then there is potentially a problem.

    It would be an ironic twist to see a fansub group sue FUNimation in court for using their intellectual property.

    • Shadphoenix

      It’s still a nonissue, since HorribleSubs aren’t real fansubbers. They read CR subs and regurgitate them onto clean video files with a different font.

  • Darkintent

    Sigh. So it’s bad when we do it (To the point where they are dying in the street.) but ok when they do it? I don’t mind that they did it, I mind that these content companies try to pass laws to screw us over and then turn around and do thins like this.

    As for Funimation I seem to remember this case coming up in the context of these drive-by lawsuits dorks in the porn industry/MPAA have grown quite fond of lately.

  • iuggijgbligbiy

    As this is such a non event, I’m gonna go off topic and ask that you have the newsbits column on the top right of the front page where any rational person would have it, not having to gain access to it via another article as it seems to be atm. Or you know, just use a smaller font for everything and have them all as stories in the normal way,

    cheers.

  • Anon

    i think the point has been missed in this article

    the subtitles (the font specifically) point out that it is a horriblesubs release only, whether those subs turn up in the dvd (blu-ray?) releases would be a matter between funi and CR, the subtitles themselves won’t be used as the scripts for the english dub either, that can be seen on the monitor next to the video

    the point is that they are using an illegally distributed video in their dubbing room instead of an official one from the japanese distributor. my only guess is that they hadn’t gotten their hands on the videos yet, though they had secured the license, but wanted to get a head start on the dubbing so simply grabbed a convenient release to use

  • Anon

    i think the point has been missed in this article

    the subtitles (the font specifically) point out that it is a horriblesubs release only, whether those subs turn up in the dvd (blu-ray?) releases would be a matter between funi and CR, the subtitles themselves won’t be used as the scripts for the english dub either, that can be seen on the monitor next to the video

    the point is that they are using an illegally distributed video in their dubbing room instead of an official one from the japanese distributor. my only guess is that they hadn’t gotten their hands on the videos yet, though they had secured the license, but wanted to get a head start on the dubbing so simply grabbed a convenient release to use

  • Anonymous

    Funimation is likely not using the Crunchyroll subs to make a dub. The first picture shows two screens, one vertical one with the real Funimation translation, and the main video screen, which for some reason is playing Crunchyroll subs that have been ripped by Horriblesubs. The only thing “different” between the CR and HS releases is the styling of the text.

    I’m no lawyer, so I’m not going to start assuming some legal nonsense.

    However, I think it would be safe to say that Funimation’s legal team doesn’t work very closely with the dubbing team.

  • Lksdfkj

    1. So, the fansub group HorribleSubs rip their subtitle translations from the official CrunchyRoll subs. Got that.

    2. Funimation found it easier to download the pirated HorribleSub version for their internal work than to access the “proper” CrunchyRoll version.

    3. Funimation never distributed HorribleSubs subtitles as their own, nor even used the translations provided.

    It shares some similarities with Ubisoft pirating it’s own Assassin’s Creed soundtrack and redistributing it… but without the redistribution bit.

    tl;dr: Funimation were hypocritical, and this is a little embarrassing for them, but they didn’t really do anything wrong here.

    • Whatever

      I like it that you try to explain the order of events but i’m still not getting what exactly happened.

      Who or what is CrunchyRoll (i was thinking about clowns or adventure games) and did Funimation receive the translations ?
      Where did HorribleSubs rip those (was it only text, DVD overlay and/or did it include fonts) ?
      Why would it be certain Funimation have used the Horriblesubs just because the font is the same ?

      If they are using a ripped translation which was meant for Funi…, then obviously the words would be exact the same to the dot. If the translation ripped was with timing it would logically have the same timing. So what did actually happen ?

      Some other issues: The lower picture has much more saturated colors than the one above.

      @TF: Could have been a much less confusing article. Not everyone is at home in the fansub scene. A bit of chronology would have been nice.

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  • Ninja

    Thank God fansubbers exist. I’ve already translated some English subs to my own language when I was part of one. And wow, we do for absolutely no money, just to make it available for other fans. So yeah, Funimation is just onr huge bunch of arseholes for suing ppl. They should go after ppl selling the fansubbed material. I stumbled on a shop selling my own translated videos, they even said that the producer name (guess: the name of the fansubber I belonged to). I was like “wtf?”. That’s true piracy. That’s what they should go after. And that’s what’s truly disgusting.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Z2FQHXQWTCRRTCGLUNV66AOEI4 MoJ

      Otherwise I couldn’t fap to my favorite fap fap fap fapfapfap. what were we talking about?

  • bryan

    Anime is gay anyways

    • Anonymous

      Did you really use the word “gay” is insult something? Nice going you little faggot.

      • Ninja

        Don’t waste your breath (or fingers) with such ppl. They are the type that cant cope with the differences. Actually we should pity ppl like this.

  • Him

    you all know the rules.
    dont do what i do, do what i tell you!
    the whole lot of them (entertainment industries, copyright companies) are nothing more than hypocritical assholes!! expect to be able to use others work when it suits them, for free, but no one can use their stuff unless being paid triple what it is worth!

  • Dia

    So in the end they were just watching the video and not really using the subs?

  • Dia

    So in the end they were just watching the video and not really using the subs?

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  • aaaa

    This happened in Brazil too… and also in many other countries. They go to websites dedicated to subtitles of TV shows etc and use their work.

  • aaaa

    This happened in Brazil too… and also in many other countries. They go to websites dedicated to subtitles of TV shows etc and use their work.

  • http://hackmeout.blogspot.com Tch_541
  • http://twitter.com/ja5087 Ja Wat

    Musta Been the earthquake

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  • Anonymous

    lol, you have to admit thats pretty funny.

    http://www.real-privacy.it.tc

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  • darara

    There are countless examples where subs made by pirates are far far better than those made by professional translators. That’s one of the many reasons why there should be such thing as “digital piracy” – it boost immensely the quality of the product (will it be better translation, will it be patches for bugs, that are known but ignored by the company, which made the software etc. etc.). This boost is of course another thing those fat greedy sons of b@tches don’t want us – their clients – to have, because according to them the better the quality, the greater the probability that it won’t brake and the client won’t need a new one. But they all forget that quality at a decent price is what we all are looking for. Hell, the Earth doesn’t have infinite resources even if we recycle some old TV set, mobile phone or even a car. And colonization of other planets doesn’t look like a very realistic idea in the next at least tens if not even hundreds of years.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Z2FQHXQWTCRRTCGLUNV66AOEI4 MoJ

    Meh, Funimation is just cheap. That one guy Kent Williams I think his name is, he does the purple guy from DBZ. He owes money all over town. Just bottom feeders. Not a shock.

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  • Fuiiii

    I’m going to go ahead and download even more of their shows and get away with it, even if I don’t watch them. Eat a barrel of dicks you asswagons.

  • Fuiiii

    I’m going to go ahead and download even more of their shows and get away with it, even if I don’t watch them. Eat a barrel of dicks you asswagons.

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