BitTorrent Users Refuse To Pay Copyright Fines
Written by enigmax on June 15, 2008During the last couple of years, hundreds of people have received letters from lawyers demanding compensation for the alleged uploading of copyright works. Their demands state that if you don’t pay up, you will be taken to court and dealt with severely. However, when people refuse to pay - nothing happens.
Back in March 2007 it became apparent that it would now be the turn of UK citizens to receive threatening letters for claimed breach of copyright. A team consisting of lawyers ‘Davenport Lyons’, anti-piracy tracking company ‘Logistep’ and several games publishers such as Zuxxez/Topware and CodeMasters started sending letters to those it accused of unauthorized distribution of their products - otherwise known as ‘uploading’. The most persistent cases are those featuring the games Dream Pinball 3D, Colin McRae Dirt and Call of Juarez.
In their letters, Davenport Lyons adopt a very serious tone, as they threaten to take people’s homes away, should they be unable to pay their ‘fines’. Of course, not many people like this tone, and they can get very indignant in the face of it. Needless to say - guilty or not - some people are sufficiently annoyed and simply refuse to pay. Others refuse to pay for different reasons - TorrentFreak is in touch with a few of them.
The reasons for non-payment vary, but some simply don’t have the money. ‘Tania’ told us: “I’m a single mom and my son must’ve done this but I don’t have £600 ($1200). I can’t pay it, I don’t have that sort of money.” ‘Paul’, who works a 70 hour week on two jobs explained that he is massively in debt with credit cards and the demands for cash from Davenport just go “on the pile with the others.” None of these people have been taken to court.
Others are refusing to pay because they are innocent. Even though Davenport insist that its anti-piracy tracking partner ‘Logistep‘ is faultless in its data-gathering, it’s generally accepted that anti-piracy companies are using systems which can produce bad data. Only last week researchers managed to get infringement notices sent to printers, devices incapable of committing such an act. Davenport insists - rather like BPI chief executive Geoff Taylor - that if the High Court thought the evidence was compelling enough to order the ISP to give up the personal details of the alleged sharer, then the data must be accurate. If that is the case, how come Davenport haven’t taken anyone to court or asked Logistep to take up the offers they received to have their system independently audited? That would surely boost their credibility. Or not.
TorrentFreak spoke with many people who are obviously wrongly accused for various reasons. We’re pretty sure that ‘Lucy’, a 67 year old grandmother of 8, had no interest in Colin McRae Dirt, and that ‘Peter’, a 21 year old student who used to have a game-loving flat-mate, is completely innocent. What about ‘Jason’, a father of four who was in the Middle East at the time of the alleged infringement, or ‘Joanne’ who had probably been running a wide-open wireless router for the best part of two years - in a building of around 60 residents? As with the other group, none of these people have been taken to court.
One man, ‘Stuart’, has been corresponding with Davenport Lyons for many months now over claims his uncle with whom he lives, infringed copyright on Colin McRae Dirt. The Internet account is in his uncle’s name, but his uncle never uses the computer, so the wrong person was accused immediately and Stuart vigorously denies all accusations too.
After many letters sent to Davenport last year, where Stuart (on behalf of his uncle) denied all allegations, with Davenport duly ignoring most points and reiterating that if he didn’t pay he’d be going to court (each time giving only a few days to stop the court action), everything went dead. Then a couple of months ago, déjà vue kicked in as a letter dropped through the door which seemed to start from the beginning again, essentially stating that if he didn’t pay, court papers would be prepared and he would be incurring huge costs, etc.
Stuart wrote back, re-iterated his total innocence, and reminded Davenport that endless correspondence was getting them nowhere while they insist he is guilty, and he insists he is not. They wrote back and reminded him (again) that they were going to start court proceedings if he didn’t pay. He hasn’t paid and they have not taken him to court. Again.
Stuart is not unique in receiving lots of letters, lots of threats and then - nothing. TorrentFreak is in touch with nearly 40 people accused in these cases and not one of them has been taken to court, in some cases more than 15 months after these people apparently had 14 days to pay up or else.
It’s not clear if Davenport Lyons has completely given up on taking anyone to court, they may still surprise us. It’s believed they did ‘win’ one case when someone they accused didn’t turn up in court but all the indications point to a stalemate on the outstanding cases, including those of Stuart, Lucy, Peter, Jason, Joanne and countless others.
It’s thought that around 40% to 50% of people who received letters have paid up, and maybe that’s enough for the operation to be profitable for Davenport. Taking people to court in the UK for such a small infringement is definitely unprofitable. Maybe this is the greatest indicator as to where these cases are going to end up when the defiant, penniless and innocent refuse to pay.
Previously: MediaDefender Goes Forward with P2P Marketing
Next: Most Popular DVDrips on BitTorrent (wk24)
73 Responses
More need to refuse to pay.
they simply do not want their bad system tested in court
I’d call their bluff and ask them to set a court date.
everyone should protest against it and not pay. its not like them can take us all to court.
Yeah, Don’t pay, they can’t do anything.
They are Super A-Holes ;-)
Very nice article, and i’m sure it will help quite a few people who were thinking of paying but then “reconsidered” after reading here.
I do think that their system is going to be “independently verified” soon… by someone who is going to get a fat amount on the side of course, the ONLY way that they will get real credit if they opened up their source so that anyone could analize their code… needless to say, that will only happen after pigs start to fly and hell freezes over (and since pigs are flying and hell has frozen over its Paris Hilton’s cue to get some talent and brains).
The only thing I fear is that if a lot of people/websites run articles like this is that the “bad guys” will kind of push a couple of people to court just to make an example of them… because fear mongering is one of their main weapons in their dirty arsenal.
Just my $0.02
Cheers!
http://www.eZee.se
Fight back and sue the scum for harassment!
Lawyers aren’t better than those rabble-rousers RIAA/MPAA, they all have no conscience!
Sad that there’s as many weak minded individuals as there appears to be..
If no one paid these extortion attempts then like any company who’s expenses are greater than their revenue they’d have to close up shop..
Great job for those of you who aren’t paying up.
For those that are, honestly, better luck next time. There’s no need for it.
Funny, you say, “…boost their credibility…”
As if they have any. All the anti-piracy gangs get a big head after one court case goes well for them (OiNK) but forget that their evidence is virtually useless.
These guys should just go home and cry to their mommies like WebSheriff.
I don’t think it’s fair to criticise those who have paid up.
Davenport Lyons and Zuxxez etc are the evil here, not people who’ve been scared into paying £500 so that they don’t have to go to court.
I am not blamming people who have paid.
However:
DO NOT PAY! DO NOT PAY AND DO NOT PAY!
Ther is nothing to fear!
Worst case scenario go BK chapter 7 to make them go away!
get a good BK attorney and pay his/her fee upfront with a credit card that will go in the BK.
Unless you have substancial asset such as more than one home, more than one car per person in your familly, investement outside of your retirment.
They can not take your home your car or your retirment plan! This is protected in case of BK.
If they were to change the law over this then it would be time to take our guns but this is not the case right now. So?
Also BOYCOTT THE RIAA/MPAA PARASITES!
This mean anuything:
1)Vivendi,Universal
2) Sony/BMG,
3) EMI,
4) Time Warner,
5) Viacom,
6)Every thing owned by this parastite and old bag of shit of Rupert Murder. Heu. . . I mean Ruper Murdock. (Sorry.)
7) And their numerous subsidiaries.
@11
Those people who have paid, have submitted to an unjust tyranny.
@trn, I think the correct word for those people who have paid is: victims
I really hope those bastards from Logistep will face the same slow death as MediaDefender is now …. They are hurting a lot of innocent people with their malicious bully-boy tactics.
I would whole heartedly pay up.
WITH BOTH BARRELS!!!
LIBERTY OR DEATH !!!!!
I have no quams about meeting my maker or defending my God given rights to a FREE existence in any and all expressions where in.
Evil prevails when good men do nothing.
And hey, worst comes to worst, if you do have to pay them money from a court case, clear yourself of legal connections and declare bankruptcy, when you die there’s no one legally capable of paying off your debt to them so they never get paid.
Never reply to these letters!
Big daddy George Lucas sent me a similar letter…. back in 2005
I had 7 days to contact them or they would “take further,harsh,actions against me”.
I simply scanned it
Archive it(To file a harassment suit if anymore came to my door)
Then put it in my shredder(damn thing gave me a papercut)
Besides the scar from the papercut,i havent heard back from George.
Btw george your game sucked donkey balls
So yes i did delete it
LOL
i had letters concerning the pinball game,i aint paid ,what i find odd is that you have to sign a form before you can pay them ,stating you wont upload anymore,so correct me if im wrong if you did not upload there game and paid out of fear,then how can you use the net again,for fear of a repeat,it,s a scandel,p.s. ive never even heard of the game never mind uploading it
i said them to go and fuck them selfs
the signing letter thing is the admission of guilt upon which they base their claim
never admit guilt and let they try to prove it
it will never happen without your assistance
I feel sorry for the people that DID pay. Best thing to do would probably be to write “Return to sender - no such resident” on the letters and forget about them.
Perhaps they are just a bit more friendly than the rest of the lawyers. Anyone thought about that?
Perhaps they know, that many of the people can’t pay, or won’t, but they hope that getting a threatening letter would make the pirate stop downloading/uploading.
They probably just don’t think it’s worth taking peoples money, and instead they try to scare them away from pirating. Which is better than taking their money, or at least I think so.
The point of course being:
All these people, us, would never have bought that software, music, movies to begin with. Simply because we don’t have the money for it.
The *only* real reason these people are being sent letters is because current day technology allowed them to be entertained for a lot less, by having a PC and an internet connection.
I.e. they should not send these letters to the people, but to all those hardware and systems manufacturers and maybe even internet service providers for making this posisble.
In short: It’s a waste of time.
This would be such an excellent way to run a SCAM. I’m surprised that nobody has tried it yet:
1. Harvest thousands of IP addresses from a tracker serving a copyrighted torrent.
2. Send threatening ‘legal-looking’ letters to the IP-address-owners via their ISP. Claim to be the copyright holder and tell them they’ll be sued for everything they own if they don’t pay up immediately.
3. Sit back and watch the money stream in.
Just like any kind of spamming, if you only hook a tiny fraction of the people, you can still make out like a bandit.
Maybe the Nigerians should abandon the worn-out “419 scam” and start using this one. Fear can be a much bigger motivator than greed.
@Lancelot:
Well sir, LET THEM GO OUT OF BUSINESS AND SEE IF ANYONE MISSES THEM!
Honestly, I could do without the self-important entertainment industry in the rest of my life on this planet. I could not care less if they would die a slow death of not getting paid anymore. Let’s see how much they care for creating their art!
I’ve done it all for free, all my life, and never made a dime with it, never even asked for it. You never heard me complain. Making music, software, movies, audio, video is FUN. It’s enjoyable. It’s not real work. Real work is milking a goat, changing a diper, working in a coal-mine, driving a subway, stuff like that.
I agree with Gav.
They can talk the talk, but lets see if they can walk the walk.
i will never pay for such a thing. i rather die.
uk mother calling herself ‘mom’? i call shannanigans.
My roommate got such a letter, but it said that if you delete the downloaded material there will be no further charges.
I’d sue them
WILL THE MADNESS EVER END?
Actually, if someone did run a scam, which was subsequently uncovered by the media, so many people might stop responding to “legitimate” letters, that the entire extortive business might just collapse.
I have to agree with the people who are refusing to pay this for this scam. Personally, were I to get a letter from these people, I would write back to them that “Yes, I do use Bittorrent! No, I did NOT download the thing in question because I only download FOREIGN GAMES AND MUSIC, or games that are out of print.”
I have a theory on how Davenport Lyons
and Logistep are claiming those who
are innocent of infringement are to
them guilty of the same:
They may be getting a list of IP
addresses from a given torrent
tracker, then assuming anyone who is
on there is uploading their client’s
game, even though they may be using
the tracker to download something else
that may be legal.
In some ways this seems to echo the
U of Washington study that got letters sent to printers.
So what, big deal. Even if they do sue, all they get is a stupid judgment. that amounts to a piece of paper signed by a judge that they can use for toilet paper as that is about all its worth!
JT
http://www.FireMe.To/udi
by paying you are sending a message to others that you are a coward… i respect those who don’t pay and ashame of those who are easily threatened.
remember this is a war between freedom and slavery… they pray on your fear so never show them any and be as hard as rock and tough as steel. fear is a weapon, the minute you admit fear, you are defeated.
i would just rub the letter on my balls and then send it back.. at least one of them will touch it.. hah.
the people who are in debt need to check out Dave Ramsey’s financial peace.
this make work for the davenport pinball thing but it wont work for the RIAA. your ass is grass if your sharing songs my friend. and thats not even the worse part, trying sharing illegal movies or music and then having ur isp cut ur service. do you really want that to happen? then don’t do anything illegal then.
Not quite, you nitwit.
Just get a decent isp or read up concerning anonymity in the internet.
The most important industry in this world are those who produce for the sustainability of human beings. Such a s food and energy. The rest we can do without and really don’t give a rat’s ass!
due to monopny on isps such as comcast. switching to a so called different isp can be next to impossible.
Does anyone have a contact email address for the author of this article?
I’m someone who received a letter from Davenport Lyons, so he can add me to his number of people not paying.
Let’s be honest. People who are downloading music and movies and not paying for it, are no better than the giant companies who are charging too much for it.
There’s no reason to act like you’re better than them — you’re not. You’re exactly the same scum, but you don’t have the balls to stop lying to yourself.
The system that was built to protect you will destroy you because you have chosen to betray being honest with your own self.
These guys aren’t really “super A-holes”. When all is said and done, a lot of people are still stealing their products. No matter how you slice it, it still is against the laws of our country. Everyone forgot a long time ago that people actually made this stuff to sell, as in, they are a company. It’s easy to say “ooh no big corporation’s just in here to make cash, let’s stick it to the man!” but the fact remains that somebody somewhere worked their asses off to make this product, and people are stealing it from them without a second thought. Wouldn’t you be a little mad if somebody outright stole something you’ve been working on for the past 3-4 years, maybe even a lifetime? You guys are ridiculous.
You guys can flame all you want, I really don’t care. But the attitude that you have a right to take other people’s intellectual property is baffling.
Damn thats crazy, This will help me if I get one of these letters. I would probably pay the fine if I got one, Def dont wanna go to court.
Copyright infringement is not, and never will be ‘theft’.
Nor is assault murder, harassment rape, or speeding burglary.
It’s was a very clever trick on the part of the MPAA etc to manage to get the hugely inaccurate term ‘theft’ used for copyright infringement, much more emotive. And they then get to run ads saying ‘you wouldn’t steal a car, you wouldn’t steal a handbag’ instead of saying ‘you wouldn’t make a perfect replica of a car you might never have bought
at absolutely zero cost to yourself without in any way altering the original’. Wouldn’t really have worked would it. Accuracy hurts them.
@46 no i’m sorry but you are mistaken, most of us have honest jobs and then come home and create just for fun. whether it’s a game, a youtube movie, some music (read mr. suitcase) or a book, a comic, or a flash video. and all us pirates we aren’t thieves we’re sharers. we enjoy entertainment, if it’s free thats even better. we believe in freedom of expression and with the internet we can become instant and respected publishers, producers, directors, artists, musicians, etc. was that possible 20 years ago? i don’t think so. we know that somebody worked on that pirated material but the difference between corporations and pirate nations is one is only in it for money the other is in it for fun. look at the authors who release their books for free or musicians who release their music online for free do they get cash? nope. however they are instantly popular, they are recognized as honest hard working, caring individuals, they connect with their audience and the pirates respect them. having a following of loyal pirates is the best marketing ploy a person can use. look at he man from earth for example. http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-a-boon-to-independent-filmmakers-071215/
we aren’t evildoers bent on taking out corporations we’re just a bunch of pirates who are entertaining ourselves with a product we would never have experienced and if we like it we’ll tell people to buy it/see it/listen to it whatever. oh but if we don’t like it…sucks to be you. like the hulk, saw it before it came out over here hated it and told everyone i know not to see it and guess what none of them have, people trust pirates we know what we’re talking about…indiana jones sucked balls too and zohan only gets a 6.5 its gunna be batman and the love guru winning this summer.
p.s. the anti-piracy organizations can get blown up for all i care they suck the koq, dont do anything for anyone, bunch of llamas.
I have been on the receiving end of these letters. I have not paid as I did not do it.
What’s most frustrating is that Codemasters or Davenport Lyons are ignoring all the facts that I am sending them.
Its clear here that codemasters etc are taking no part in this activity, they may receive a slice of the booty if some is obtained but they have no direct interest aside from detterence value in anything going on here.
Davenport Lyons or Logistep are not the rights holder and as such communictions from them should be accompanied by a written notification from the rights owner that they act on their behalf, if you do not receive such a notification then you have the legal right to have the case thrown out as only the rights holder can claim damages.
The european union has a data registrar, they have declared logisteps activities unlawful, in short they have been obtaining personal information without legal authority, this is a criminal offence in most member states and if you receive a demand for payment
its quite likely you can have those who claim to have gathered information on you illegally arrested or at the worst go to a lawyer to ensure a restraining order is granted for such continuing illegal activity.
Take the battle to them for their crimes, or be a victim, your choice.
My mom is a lawyer but she allows my older brother to download from bit torrents, mom is even happy that my older brother has his Bit Torrent on his PC so we don’t need to buy movies in eBay, Amazon or in a shop selling pirated DVD’s, but actually, mom would have arrested my older brother which would happen in the future. Even my uncle who is a lawyer keeps on downloading movies from bit torrents
Focusing all of our good time to this junk, the internet is not what it used to be control freaks for sure. It is all about money as usual. We need to be focusing on the gas issue, Later
Reminds me…
http://i29.tinypic.com/23k22cj.jpg
Don’t forget that Davenport Lyons are acting on behalf of someone, probably the BSA. If their client only instructs them to send a letter, but not to pursue, then that’s all they’ll do. Unless someone is paying DL’s fees, it’s unlikely that any further action will be taken. So the question really is, who is the client and do they really have any teeth or are they just hoping for the “scare them into coughing up” tactic will be enough?
@51 and anyone else that responds in any way to these letters……
Wise up! Why are you wasting your time even talking to these scumbags? Just toss the damn letter in the round file and move on. Don’t pay these thugs a penny.
And could we please get some actual names of Davenport-Lyons staff who are sending these threats out?
Some of us would prefer to give them the opportunity to repeat their threats face-to-face if you know what I mean. Like in the parking lot outside their office. :P
I am a musician and feel that that the current system of large record companies ends up ruining music. Because of them people like Brittany Spears makes millions but is not a good musician. However it never used to be like that… only good musicians got deals to produce the costly content. The music industry is changing and a person could make a living releasing and producing their own stuff… however, if the copyright law were not to exist they would not be able to make money. The problem is that people like the crap these big companies produce and steal it. The RIAA is holding off to just shift new litigation in it’s favor as technology changes and people use it in new ways. The law is specific though and for good reason. So… 1) people should buy cheap music from iTunes to support the artist they like. 2) people should look for good music not just mindlessly feed on the crap handed to you on mtv. 3) people should not try and fight copyright law because although you might be fine, if you are the one case they choose to shift the litigation in there favor on their own time you will be sorry. Copyright is a good thing… If you want music that takes time and money to create but you don’t want to pay for it you can always spend $60,000 on music school, spend 15 years on practice and privet lessons, and then another $15,000 to create it yourself. To expect to get a product like that for free is ridiculous. You all have jobs that you work hard at and you get paid for it. It’s hard enough for an artist to make a living as it is be a part of the solution and not the problem.
“It’s thought that around 40% to 50%”
Whats the point giving percentages if youve blatantly made them up. If a statistic begins with “its thought” then there no point including it.
Other than that, nice article.
You’ll see more and more of this as more people are made aware of their rights.
Simplest of terms, the RIAA/MPAA have no case against you UNLESS you are caught red-handed uploading pirate content to them, or you physically have the stuff on flash or optical media.
When it comes to bittorrent, all they have is logs. Logs of IP addresses. All they can prove is you were present in the swarm. They can even go so far as to say you downloaded this and uploaded that, in megs.
This doesn’t mean you are a pirate, downloading 99% of a copyrighted file, but not completing it, is hardly a crime.
Same with sharing bits of it, you haven’t made it ‘available’ and you have provided 0 people with it, and you have stolen NOTHING.
This is why they want you to settle, they don’t go after smart people. I was getting letters in record numbers via IRC back in the day. @ things covered my ass.
1, they were sent from, and pertaining to, US laws.
2, I’m an IT guy by trade, and know they had nothing substantial on me.
Educate yourself, and take it to court, you WILL win, if you are willing to take the time, effort, and spend the $$$$.
I’ll be defending myself.
For those of you talking about the MPAA, RIAA, BK Chapter 7., etc - please note that the UK was not, when I last looked, a State of the Union.
More people should refuse to pay.
________________________________
I got pierced at
http://www.bodypiercingbybrandi.com
Enigmax, Good article- thanks. As per @60, it would be nice if you could substantiate your statistics of 40 to 50%.
@50
Hulk didn’t suck. It’s your personal opinion that it did. No one gives a **** what one dude thinks about a movie. talk about the topic at hand.
Maybe Davenport Lyons should be taken to court for harassment, defamation of character and fraud. Wouldn’t this be considered a form of racketeering that mobsters used to squeeze money out of small business’ for ‘protection’? Maybe Davenport Lyons should be brought before a criminal court under the UK’s equivalent to US RICO laws if they have any.
How comes the Virgin customer service manager assures me that they cannot, by UK law, give away personal details of their clients in any circumstances, not even a court order, and still Davenport got my name and address? Who’s lying?
these c*nts from davenport sent me one of their threatening b.s. letters thanks to shitty virgin media too. i laughed as soon as i read it and tossed it in the bin, a bunch of illegally obtained threats thats all. if they want to take it to court, then go ahead and try to prove something. I will never pay! ha ha
As usual, they do it for money. Don’t pay those greedy bastards, and soon, their little bodies will shrivel up in hell.
Do we dont pay even if the file in question is something we did actually download?
im justing waiting for my court papers to arrive!
where can I download the game? I dont like dirt but the other one rocks….sweet Jesus I have been ripped off for years; now I can try before I buy: I buy less cause I see they suk before opening my wallet.
Solicitors, the legal system all blow: money talks: poverty is a good shield, use it wisely
I have also recieved a threatening letter about Race 07, and shall be seeking legal advice. Its a typical case of the big business kicking the little man so in response i suggest we fight back in a united front and kick them where it hurts the most “in the pocket”. If everyone reading this forum tells all their friends, family and colleagues etc to BOYCOTT any games or any other related product from atari, in a short perdiod of time the company will be suffering financially especially during this credit crunch. Remember we must all do it. Don’t But Atari!
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
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