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Eight ‘Music Pirates’ To Face Copyright Tribunal, One To Defend In Person

New Zealand rightsholders have come under fire for failing to fully utilize the so-called “three strikes” mechanism after they sent out less than 3,000 notices to alleged pirates in a year. However, it’s now been revealed that eight individuals are now just one step away from the most serious punishments available, just six shy of the French total after they sent out a massive 1.1 million warnings.

The Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Act was implemented in New Zealand last year but in July 2012 it was revealed that far from sending out large quantities of warnings to deter would-be file-sharers, rightsholders have been playing a cautious game.

RIANZ, the Recording Industry Association of New Zealand, sent out just 2,766 notices between October 2011 and April 2012. The movie industry sent none at all.

In contrast, in France, where a similar “3 strikes” scheme is operated, rightholders have been in overdrive. Between October 2010 and last month they had monitored 3 million IP addresses, had 1.15 million “first strike” notices and nearly 103,000 second warnings sent out.

The problem, Kiwi rightsholders insist, is that it costs too much to send a notice, a problem not experienced in France. But interestingly, and despite the huge difference in the number of warnings sent out, when it comes to summoning individuals to face their final punishments, the two countries are not that far apart, even though the French scheme has been running a year longer.

France has sent out more than a million first strike notices and almost 103,000 second strikes, ultimately sending just 14 cases to French prosecutors. New Zealand has sent out less than 2,800 notices in total, yet as revealed today is already sending 8 people to face the country’s Copyright Tribunal.

All of the individuals are targets of the Recording Industry Association of New Zealand (RIANZ). Their alleged offenses have not been detailed but it is presumed that they were monitored sharing music either on BitTorrent or another similar file-sharing system. All will have already received three “enforcement notices” against their ISP account but failed to modify their behavior.

Three of the individuals are customers of the ISP Telecom, while the remainder are customers of TelstraClear and Slingshot, Fairfox reports.

Seven of the accused have asked the Copyright Tribunal to consider their case on paper based evidence alone. An eighth took up the opportunity to appear before the Tribunal in person, a Justice Ministry spokesman said.

The punishments faced by the eight are more harsh than those faced by their French counterparts. The Tribunal can hand down a NZ $15,000 (US $12,337) fine, in France the maximum is 1,500 euros (NZ $2,368 / US $1,948)

In August the first French conviction was handed down. A 40-year-old man was given a 150 euro fine after he ended up taking the blame for his ex-wife’s file-sharing habits. Punishments in New Zealand are not expected to exceed a few hundred dollars.

The New Zealand notices, at NZ $25 (roughly $20 USD) per shot, are too expensive to send in large numbers and should be around NZ $2 each, rightsholders say. The ISPs, on the other hand, say that they costed their systems to handle large amounts and are now out of pocket. They want the cost of notices to increase. Last month the government said the prices would stay put.

And that might indeed be a good idea. The French send just over 0.0011% of notice recipients for punishment, currently the Kiwis are sending 0.29%, a huge difference.

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  • Wal-Mart

    This is a good thing, because when people steal music people can’t make anymore

    • Steve Donaghy

      Good thing that sharing music isn’t stealing, then.

      • digital copies =/= £0.000001

        It is theft.
        I once made a song.
        Internet pirates stole over 1 million copies.
        Now I only have a few copies left.

        I can’t make music anymore. All my copies were stolen.
        Now it makes sense to you. After I have explained it.
        I will have to wait for several years, until my copy supply grows.
        Only then can I make music again.

        • Shane F Conroy

          Are you serious?? You only have a “few copies left?” How does that make sense in the digital sale of music. There are unlimited copies of a file. Lol

        • BigWilly

          maybe if your music didn’t suck donkey balls people would care about it.

          make better music and people will buy it even after they downloaded it.

        • digital copies = £1×10^-9001

          @Shane F Conroy
          you got it, just answered too quickly

          @BigWilly
          FAiLED

        • yello

          …. i needed a good laugh, thanks

        • ScrewEwe2

          Right click and select “copy”, then select “paste”. Keep clicking “paste” 1 million times and you will have all the copies of your song back. In Windows 7 you will have to select “copy but keep both files”.

          My stupid song
          My stupid song (2)
          My stupid song (3)

          Just keep going ’till you get to 1 million copies, problem solved.

          You may need to buy an extra hard drive to store all 1 million copies of your stupid song, but by the time you’re done, you will be a highly qualified copy and paster, and then you can get a job making the big money by spamming websites with “I can’t believe Mary Jo made £4,500 per week from home by clickety click clicking crap to websites all day long”.

          Now get going my friend, and when you’re done, get started on making some new stupid songs for us to pirate.

          Glad I could help. :-)

        • enras4

          Your making of music depends on copies you still have?!? I’m gonna need two guns for this one…

        • Timo

          Let me tell you a little secret key combinations:

          Select you stupid mp3, CTRL (or command) + C then CTRL + V. You can keep the keys pressed so you can make over 1 million copies.

          Good luck and fuck off.

        • chronoss chiron

          its in your mind you stupid twit
          a candy bar put it on a table
          have your bud take it …thats theft cause you dont have a candy bar

          NOW lets imaigne you have a star trek replicator and make two bars and you friend takes one and you have one ….based off your original bar….see the original is still there…and YOU BET they are really working on real replicators buddy….up to aobut 400 atoms they can do….when only 3 years ago 1…..

          cant wait till we all dont have to pay for food and a solar /wind combo really gives value….and then what bud you gonna cry cause i “recreate your stupid tune”

        • Fools

          Way to much stupid here. I’m talking about all the replies. Sarcasm guys learn it or at least play some chess or something to engage your dying brain cell.

        • Thief

          And me an asshole downloaded my computer during the night! Dam!

          But guess what? I am going to use the same hacking method to download all the RIAA, Vivendi and Time Warner computers! Ha!

          AntiSec are script kidies! Ok! they downloaded some CIAA and pentagon databases. Big deal! me I am going to download all their servers! Ha!

          ( And their cafeteria refrigerators with all the food inside.)

        • Thief

          Oh! and I forgot! Can I have the “few copies left” so you don’t have to worry about it anymore?

        • Andrew Lee

          I once bought a song and it fucking sucked and I was out 17$..
          I once bought a car jack and it fucking sucked and Wal-Mart refunded my 30$..

          I once borrowed a AC/DC cd nobody complained.
          I once taped a Metallica song from the radio and lord behold nobody complained.
          I once used Napster “while it was still actually free” and the world had a fucking heart attack.

          Also if your gonna call it anything it should be FORGERY as stolen means there is a lesser quantity than there was before. Still even then forgery does not even fit it 100 percent as forgery is a copy that is fake and different even if in a very very small almost unnoticeable way and a file that is copied is the exact same as it was before.

          You could try and argue they “stole a sale” but good luck with that one rofl.

          How about instead you try to connect with your fans and build a good rapport?
          I give you a hint extorting fans out of money is most certainly not the way to go about it.

          Paying buckets of cash for these moron companies to send DCMA notices by the handful is also a scam as they fucking damn well know they’re actually doing jack shit.
          Well actually they’re not the morons the people paying them are.

          I’ve seen some pretty stupid shit over the years and the most recent is the boom of people deciding to go with Adobe Air for their software which just turned anybody that can abuse a flash game into a potential cracker.
          I’d say giving your money away for someone to send a DCMA is right up there with that.

      • digital copies = £1×10^-9001

        @yello
        : ) glad to help. It’s really that preposterous.
        Personally, I am now laughing at the responses, they are still coming in, even after I posted that pic.
        #Really … #ReallyReally … #NoWay
         
         
        @ScrewEwe2
        A very smart reply, ingeniously proving the point. *gold star*
         
         
        @enras4
        I Lol’d….
        I would like one of those guns please.
        The responses I received, make me want to leave this planet of the stupids.
         
         
        @Timo
        But that would cost at least £1×10^-9001
        You still don’t get it, do you.
         
         
        @chronoss chiron
        NO response necessary. You should read your comment.
         
         
         
        @Fools
        I know…. but in my head I am thinking, “no one is that stupid”
        I give people, way too much credit in their intelligence levels.
        Still funny as fuck seeing such stupidity in the wild.
        Trolls would have a field day.

        TL;DR

        Most of you guys should NOT read this book
        pic related : the book you shouldn’t read

    • http://twitter.com/Power2All Power2All

      People steal music ?
      Your kidding right ?
      Music is social thing, I create music and release it for free, people download it and then you say thats stealing ?
      The only thing why it could be seen as stealing, is because the releasing party advertises it everywhere, and that costs money, but overal, music is free.
      Sadly, this world is shit now so people see every part of a song as copyrighted/licensed.
      Like as if hitting a tom, and sell that, and then you get sued cause someone else had a song with a tom in it… -_-

      • Mr Dump

        Uhhh, what a tom is? I thought about hitting a guy named Tom once, but took a dump instead. On Tom.

        • Guilty Laser Printer

          Quote: “The Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Act was implemented in New Zealand last year but in July 2012 it was revealed that far from sending out large quantities of warnings to deter would-be file-sharers, rightsholders have been playing a cautious game.

          RIANZ, the Recording Industry Association of New Zealand, sent out just 2,766 notices between October 2011 and April 2012. The movie industry sent none at all.

          France has sent out more than a million first strike notices and almost 103,000 second strikes, ultimately sending just 14 cases to French prosecutors. New Zealand has sent out less than 2,800 notices in total, yet as revealed today is already sending 8 people to face the country’s Copyright Tribunal.”

          So why so few notices ? And why so few people have being prosecuted ? Quite simply because these bastardized entities are walking on thin ice with the deeply flawed evidence that they may have, and they fear being mocked by the presiding judge who may have the good sense to throw the entire case out of court.

          Both RIANZ (New Zealand) and Hadopi (France) know that they haven’t got shit that will stand the rigour of a court case. They’re the ones who have been/are shitting in their pants, and it’s only a matter of time before the judiciary realise that these pro (c) enforcers are deeply flawed in their methodology of tracking down (c) violators.

          Screw ‘em, the mother fucking bastards.

        • Danny

          A drum!

    • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

      Slime your way back into your damp cave troll – the vast majority of people/voters Worldwide are now waking up to how stultifyingly wrong these protectionist laws are for an outdated industry unwilling to drag itself into the 21st Century.

      We pirates SHALL win in the end via the ballot box – so enjoy your trolling now. It aint gonna last much longer.

      • Guest

        Rob, what’s with the “We pirates” comment?

    • Gupta

      FUCK OFF Grandma

    • Anonymous

      are you some sort of fucking idiot? since when is copying/sharing, stealing?

    • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

      You mean …..distributors can’t make anymore…..money that is…..

    • Qjo

      I’ve shoplifted music at Wal-Mart.

      The music I download is a gift from my friend the internet.

      • Anon

        I suppose that technically by shoplifting it the music industry is still getting the money. But still… shoplifting is wrong.
        At least with downloading I don’t consider it stealing per se. You are downloading a file with some wave patterns which could be reproduced without the original creator. But from a shop you are taking an object actually owned by someone.
        Anyway…

        • Qjo

          Yeah, I don’t really shoplift, I was just trying to piss off that fucktard Wal-Mart.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003037095323 Jerilyn Nighy

        I checked out CD’s from the library, and ripped copies.

    • PenzancePeer

      Dont forget Camper’s, UK music copyright runs for 50 years from date of recording :) ergo The Beatles first big hit has just gone out of copyright, and the rest of their catalogue will follow over the next 8 years :) No doubt something that will ANNOY Mr Troll’s (above) employers greatly, whilst delighting fans of all that great music recorded well into the age of the Copyright Business Model.

    • Guest

      There is only one corporate paid troll who carefully monitor TF in order to post it’s crap near the top. Few years ago they were several. The corporatists are weakening.

      Unfortunately for the corporatists they are wasting their money because this troll is too obvious and It is not working. Fortunately for the rest of the world because the more money they spend doing their political crap and propaganda the sooner they will go out of business.

    • Anakedwombat

      Said it before say it again
      1960. 3 billion people music in its infancy
      2012 7.2 billion people and f&@$$n you tube everyone wants to be a star

    • James Biederbeck

      I hate it when people pirate music. Suddenly, my guitar that I love using to express myself suddenly stops being a tool for expression and creativity. And my amp, its piracy detection circuits keep me from playing too loud.

      Oh wait, that doesn’t happen. The best music is always made strictly for the enjoyment of music, and is made unhampered by an individual’s ability to profit. The bad music on the other hand, the music made for money alone (you know the type, it’s all the songs you skip on your favorite bands’ albums), the filler songs, those are the ones that will go away.

      If these are the consequences of piracy, how is it not appealing? The current paradigm for commercial music production desperately needs to be overhauled. If pirating music means that the musicians who write their own music continue to do so (and not all of them will), while the factory made disney musicians can no longer afford to pay others to write music for them, or the publishing industry is removed as a gatekeeper between me and the music I love… well, that doesn’t sound so bad. It sounds to me like an improvement in the ratio of quality to quantity.

      Music theft: it’s like when your car gets stolen, but it’s still there in the morning, and your insurance stays the same.

  • Pingback: Torrent News » Eight ‘Music Pirates’ To Face Copyright Tribunal, One To Defend In Person

  • Albert Ativan

    What you say is true, but don’t you think that (forcing) the release of various media for free would put a lot of people out of jobs – everything from game-designers to producers, copywriters, advertisers, artists, editors – all the way up to the much despised moguls? Don’t you think ‘the ballot box’ might be inclined against such economic havoc? Waking up to a broken system, yes, but to annul/remove/circumvent copyright will only produce a new hierarchy; those with broadband and technical skills at the top, and everyone else at the bottom – forced to pay horrendous prices, or to live entirely without the ‘entertainment industry’. Now you might say that’s a good thing. Let artists be workers first and artists seconds, like a hobby. But really, how do you explain that to someone with a non-creative job in the ‘creative industries’ and how do you explain that to those artists who are simply not capable of being both an industrialist and an artist – you would lose the better of the bunch to a McJob, or to advertisement. I guess you would end up with some very creative people producing billboards. Oh wait.

    • Guest

      All media is released for free already, courtesy of the Internet.

      Game designers, producers, copyrighters, advertisers, artists, and editors still have jobs.

      Where’s the problem?

      • Guest

        *copywriters

        Hopefully copyrighters will soon be out of a job.

    • http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett

      dont talk bollocks, this is the close minded un educated views that normally come from anti piracy reports and chris dodds.

      as ive stated before ive bought retail content AFTER i have downloaded several version for FREE via piracy, all this crap about hurting jobs because you gain content for free is nonsense. hell you use a car for free before buying, whats the difference? the petrol is burned, the miles on the engine and tires burn off .

      yet the customer pays nothing.. no fucking difference. you have 30 day trails from media outlets and use their content FOR FREE, so whats the difference between that and piracy? FUCK ALL. the only reason if any that people in the multiple industries “effected” by piracy are those that dont have the brain power to figure out how to work along side piracy and gain even more sales, this who lose of jobs is make believe, its rubbish, total bullshit. hell if they are losing jobs then thats the fault of the big dogs pushing the button to make that move simply becuase its NOT becuase sales have gone down, hell its been proven multiple times sales have gone UP. they said 10 years ago that the gaming industry would be gone becuase of internet use, yet its BECUASE of the internet that its now a multi billion industry to where devices are more concentrated on streaming and downloads than actual hard format.

      • Won’t eat it

        I get it free play it like it wait for it to drop in price then buy it simple
        I am still playing half life after I bought it in 1999 for 10 dollars as a copy then I got steam and been buying all the games when on special
        I want the new sim city but because of the Internet connection that is required all the time I want get it I would rather get a cracked copy that ill stop it from the net than buy it its the constant online to play that puts me off you cannot play offline

  • Anonymous

    in typical entertainment industries fashion, they want to be able to send out a notice to someone, using nothing other than an IP address as evidence, accusing someone of doing something that they consider is such a heinous crime and to do so for free. they dont want to do anything to help discourage people from sharing information, like make the stuff available themselves for download at sensible prices, drm free etc, etc but then want to impose fines that are so over the top that robbing Fort Knox would be less of a crime. then they wonder why people treat them with such contempt? give me a break!!

    • aleaway

      All I’m asking is not to glorify piracy.

      • Qjo

        If you don’t like what you read here then go fucking read somewhere else dipshit.

        • aleaway

          But I’m a pirate.

        • Qjo

          @aleaway

          You don’t sound like one.

        • aleaway

          It’s a tricky situation for all of us. Pirate or no, like it or no.

          The establishment has a big gun (the Law) and they will use it more and more. If it misfires, they will change it. As an old-time swashbuckler I am simply trying to avoid a false sense of revolutionary hope. Considering the economic effects of your actions is not ‘giving in’ or ‘playing their game’, because as I’m sure we all know, capitalism is the only game(!) and market forces are the only(!) defining factors on this – large, legal, infrastructural – scale.

          Consider this: you, we, the pirates, the savvy, the anons, seeders, leechers, up- and down- loaders, we are still a minority. The internet is clientelist and it is a bad thing, because if people like me don’t play ‘agitator’ we remain completely encapsulated and see more or less only our own opinions (save discussions on minor issues like the platform wars, console wars, BT vs UseNet vs FileHosts etc…).

      • Anonymous

        when the entertainment industries listen to customers and give what is asked for, then file sharing would become all but obsolete. while the entertainment industries dont listen, insist that customers mean nothing to them and things have to be done their way, whilst abusing any law they can come up with, get new laws introduced using totally false and fabricated information and bribe politicians to continue helping the old business models, no one with sense is going to believe a word they say or have any respect for them or their industry and nor should they! the main reason they wont adapt is because they are encouraged by governments and law makers to continue down the decades old road. how can anyone justify fining someone a minimum of $140,000 for sharing 1 song? how can anyone justify imprisoning a person for sharing anything? why should anyone be entitled to tell me what i can and cannot do, including whether i can resell something, that i legally own? it is nothing short of madness! i doubt if many here condone ‘piracy’ (remember this is a term used by the entertainment industries to simply try to enhance the ‘malpractice’ of sharing!) but being told i cant give a game away or sell/buy 2nd hand goods without giving the original producer extra payments is fucking ridiculous! where would we as the human race have been if there had been no sharing of information since time began? if we had not copied off someone else? there would have been virtual stagnation, no progress, still eating raw meat and living in caves, let alone having no easy means of transporting stuff (the wheel!). nothing is invented that doesn’t get copied or shared. that is what we, all of us, do and thank God for it!!

      • ScrewEwe2

        Piracy is glorious and glamorous though, and the best thing of all, it’s gluten free, unless you’re a gay gluten pirate who’s gluttonous for gluten and lives in Gallipoli with a guy named Gary who suffers from gas because he’s allergic to gluten. In that case, it wouldn’t be glamorous or glorious.

    • aleaway

      @anonymous
      I totally agree with your comment about IP addresses being insufficient proof. Let me use this as an example of the kinds of draconian pushes that surely are to follow…

      • Guest

        Speaking of Draconian Laws, Japan has became a piece of shit!!

  • Mr Dump

    Sorry Wal-Mart, but I took a big dump in the mens room urinal. I thought it would be funny, and it was. LOL

    • aleaway

      @MrDump
      Yous shitting in the WalMart urinal is not defiance. It just makes more nasty work for a low-wage worker.

  • Guest

    There are more than 14 filesharers in France and more than 8 filesharers in New Zealand. To say the fucking least.

    Three strikes and HADOPI are epic fail. They were supposed to basically end piracy. But all they’ve done is(possibly) fine 22 pirates.

    Goddamn. All that money that’s been poured into anti-piracy systems that don’t work. I wonder how many artists it could have funded?

    • Anonymous

      and the best of it is, it hasn’t cost the industries any money for this massive fail. so why? the tax payers are the ones that have had to foot the bill, all to keep the old legacy industries from adapting. even when money is recouped, it doesn’t repay the tax payers or the artists. the industries execs get to keep it! talk about having politicians eating out of the hand!

  • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

    I wonder how many of those 1.15 million French ISP Customers were complete innocents who got their first taste of what the Real Copyright Industry is and why they must never stop fighting it.

    I say to the French government, “You wimp!! See if you can set a real record!! 15 Million third strikes! I dare you.”" We could only wish they had the big balls, bad luck, and blindness to do exactly that. In fact I’d say, “Hey, kity! Kity!! Top Kat like you don’t need to wait for no third strikes!! Just disconnect all the Motha Fukahs!! Like you mean it!!”

    Then again, I have no Idea what a really angry Frenchmen look like.

  • ScrewEwe2

    For all the money that has been blown on trying to combat piracy, in the music industry for example, they could have probably sold every pirated song ever as a 320kbps mp3 for 10¢ ea. and still made a hefty profit. iTunes sells their crap as 128kbps mp3′s at 99¢ ea., what a total ripoff. I may be way off mark about the 320kbps mp3 for 10¢ ea, but the only people getting rich are the lawyers, lobbyists and politicians. The artists don’t see a dime and the costs to everyone from the ISP’s and Google having to deal with the DMCA crap isn’t cheap. The biggest thing the music industry has lost is good will. I will never ever spend 1¢ to support the music producers as long as I live, but I hope to attend some overpriced concerts in the future.

    My advice to the accused pirates in New Zealand is: Blame the French guy’s ex-wife.

    • Montisaquadeis

      Now if the RIAA started offering their music in Loseless formats like FLAC at a very reasonable price per song/album that would be the best course of action but no they have to stand by their ancient ways and it would even cut out the middlemen since they would be selling the music straight from their servers instead of having to pay the retailers to stock the stupid cds and having to pay the drivers to get the cds and to even print the cds. The world would be a much better place if both the RIAA and MPAA started selling great digital copies without crappy DRM built in for reasonable prices.I know it would be harder to sell blu ray copies since they take up so much space but that is where Bittoorent would come in very handy so that the bandwidth is broken up around the country/world instead of being tied to one set of servers.

      • Anyone

        if they are offering it in perfect quality now they can’t ask for money again for the next “remastering”

        clearly you don’t know business ;)

        • Montisaquadeis

          Would give them major incentive to put out real, great music instead of this generic crappy stuff they are putting out and it would mean they would need to build up a better relationships with the artists so that those artists will do more and better music then the crap they put out now. I still listen to the older stuff instead of the new crap unless of course its coming from my favorite band CREED and their derivatives aka solo albums and alter bridge.

  • Violated0

    You can at least say this NZ strike system is being very pro-active on this shit 2800 responses that they have received. Not so much educational it seems and more a stamp on whatever falls under their feet.

    To make matters worse the Copyright Tribunal is rather removed from common law and Justice. They just aim to make subscribers responsible for all that happens on their connection where a limited range of appeal options all point to guilty.

    True Justice and stamping out Copyright Infringement exists on two different planes of reality. An IP address does not equal a person but they still play blame whoever pays the bill. When has it ever been Justice to punish someone for what someone else does? Welcome to hardcore copyright social abuse.

  • Just Curious

    So glad I don’t live in New Natziland. Zeg Hail! Zeg Hail!

  • Roadkill

    Once upon a time I could visit my local public library but those austerity people put a stop to it and closed it down. They claimed all those unemployed welfare scrounges and the spiralling cost of free medical care have left our country teetering on a financial abyss. Never-mind I thought – I could download stuff off the internet for personal use. But those same people who closed-down my library say “No, piracy funds terrorism and we’ll put you in prison for ten years. Blah blah blah…” (I always thought oil funded terrorism). I want my public library back…

  • Shamm70

    I am sorry i can not be bothered to read the comments as i am ashamed to call myself a Kiwi at the moment.

  • TengFow

    Well it would seem those guys know what they are talking about, but then again maybe not.

    VPN-Network.tk

  • Pingback: Torrent News » Nouvelle-Zélande/ #Hadopi : 3000 emails envoyés et déjà 8 personnes devant les tribunaux !

  • http://twitter.com/krozareq krozareq

    The French raising the white flag to Hollywood. What else is new?

  • Guest

    DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

  • A Realist

    I download a shit-load of music for free, but unlike most of the fucktards that post on this site, I’m not dumb enough to think that illegally downloading music/movies/games doesn’t have a huge negative financial impact on the people that pay for those products to be made. The bullshit excuses justifying the illegal downloading of copyrighted material that I see on this site day after day are just laughable. I swear there’s not a single functioning brain cell between you sometimes.

    I have very little sympathy for the huge record labels and movie studios. They had it way too good for way too long, but do you really think that the big movie studios will continue to throw 50 to 100 million dollars into movie production, when they aren’t making a profit on them?

    The ‘DIY’ approach to bands making and releasing music themselves is great, but it is not cheap to do that, and many bands end up putting themselves in a lot of debt to get their albums made. The major record labels may be evil greed machines, but it’s a doubled edged sword. Bands can continue releasing their music themselves, but none of those bands will have anything like the worldwide success that bands had 20 years ago. The money the major labels can pump into music videos/advertising, and getting the music ‘out-there’ for people to hear is pretty much the only way that bands can have a chance of making it to the big-time.

    There was an album released a few weeks ago. ‘I Legion – Beyond Darkness,’ which featured guest appearances from members of Soilwork/Threat Signal/Mutiny Within. It’s a self-released digital-only album, which cost a lot of money to make, and the first week sales were under 100 copies, but on one torrent site the album had 1300 downloads. Now of course, that’s not 1300 lost sales, but still, those illegal downloads have denied the copyright holder a lot of money. These are the kind of people that are taking a huge financial hit due to illegal downloads.

    If a baker made 100 loves of bread, and 90 people came into his shop and took a loaf without paying for them, how long do you think that baker will be in business?

    • Anonymous

      if everyone copied it first, then took a loaf, there would be the same number left as started. that’s the massive difference between copying and taking something. one day when you have grown up, perhaps you’ll understand!

      • A Realist

        And maybe someday, when you have a brain, you’ll realise that if you keep making a copy of something without paying for it, eventually there will be nothing left for you to copy. It doesn’t take a genius to work that out.

        If i was in a band, that had 10000 fans, and i made an album with my own money, and needed to sell at least 5000 albums before I could make another album, but only 500 of my 10000 fans paid for my album, the other 9500 downloaded it for free, how can I make another album in a couple of years time when i lost so much money making the last one?

        Retards, i’m just surrounded by retards with no concept of economics.

        I’m not an anti-piracy guy, i do it every day, but i still put my hard earned money back into the system by buying physical copies of CD’s/Games/Movies that i like, because if we all stop supporting the entertainment industry, eventually there won’t be an entertainment industry.

        • chronoss chiron

          and maybe one more day what we up to 5 days old , we will realize a true artist creates and doesn’t worry about money , if he /you/she/him/her/it/ creates somehting good enough you will get some doh , that being part of your creativity in a new age of digital is to relaize you are not gonna make tons a cash sitting on your ass….

          WHY? BECAUSE OF ME….if you wont do stuff then i will and ill under cut the likes of you and just do stuff for free for ever….what can you do now , ill make music free …..its no differant then robots in auto plants , look at a new job pal your type a thinking is obsolete, in fact it has been for more then 15 years or more…you just are litigating your way to the end.

          Did ya think that if hollywood removed all these lawyers and legal issues it might not be doing so bad?

          Did you think that buy litigating and publicizing who what and where you jsut educated people that are too stupid to have known otherwise but now are quite willing to give you a middle finger? ( LOOK DONT LOOK OVER THERE – BET YOU DID DIDN’T YA )

          DId ya think that with all the sound applications and computer tech now i don’t need a musician for sound in my games and animated tv?

          HELL i don’t even need actors ….i could prolly even just pull a benny hill l and do it all myself …….technology should be making things cheaper and it is….people just odn’t know yet what they can do with all this…..

          low end pc adobe audtion 3.0 for sound mixing , and 3dsmax 2011 for video animations and then you have to goto a torrent site to get docs and such cause tuition and teaching this crap is nuts

          3dsmax wants 15000$ for there app cause they know its a money maker not cause anyone deserves that much and also to keep loads a people from using it.

          THUS you get daz studio , poser , bryce7.1 and carrara…..ya see even you can use blender if you want totally free….and dare i say your time is nearly over and the movie theatres are hurting NICELY and i cant wait till not one more human being pays 20$ for a crappy pop and popcorn.

        • Anyone

          I do pay for the copies I make:
          I pay for the electricity powering my computer, I pay for the internet connection transferring those bytes, I pay for the harddrive storing those bytes
          how is that not paying for the copy I make?

          now, if you had a band with 10000 fans, how did those 10000 people get to know about you?
          why aren’t you touring and selling merchandise and getting money that way?
          maybe signed copies of your CD/LP?
          and if you have trouble getting funds for your next album, try crowdfunding like kickstarter

          charging for worthless digital copies (or worse charging for simply streaming those worthless copies) is not the answer

        • Tactical Nuclear Penguin

          So if your band doesn’t make any more albums it doesn’t mean that no more albums will ever be made again. There are many other bands that will make their own albums and take your place in the market. That’s what happens in a free market with our current economic concepts. They too may fail in the marketplace, but there will be one or more groups that will win in this new digital age when they accept the new way of the world’s consumers.

          If you are in the music business solely as a business you must expect that the failure rate of all new businesses in the general sphere of things is close to 90% in the first 5 years. So why should the music industry be any different?

          If however you are into music or any of the other creative fields for the love of it, ie a hobby, you will be happy for any good things that come your way from it and won’t be too dissapointed if things don’t go the way you had hoped such as fame & fortune. And you will continue to earn a living doing ordinary jobs in your ordinary lives.
          Despite your analysis that if we don’t all support the current Entertainment Industry it will dissapear, remember HOME TAPING IS KILLING THE MUSIC INDUSTRY.

    • chronoss chiron

      they have no choice but to continue throwing money at stuff look how much they have…..
      1) if they dont and gt shit tons a cash then they show they dont need copyright during a time of bad times. ALSO you can’t keep creativly hiding profits for ever….

      hahaha and ill add

      2.) if they don’t guys like me will come up and start doing stuff based on donation and when i wasn’t getting income before of more then 12 K a year on disability anything more then say 15K is bonus so if i do quality work then get it out there and gt that much a year or more….you get stuff and people that have spare change that TRULY appreciate art and creativity will donate….

      don’t expect it don’t whine about it …do it.
      P.S. Chronic pain syndrome with bad back awful shit to deal with….but i manage and i’ll add i create all time using others stuff JUST dont publish things like that.My own stuff i’ve come up with are very out there and are popular enough that i am doing things regardless of payment.

      …if hollywood won’t amuse me , i’ll amuse myself….and maybe a few of you.

    • McCheezits

      Stop comparing things like MP3s and FLAC files to physical objects like bread and automobiles. They aren’t the same thing.

      /endrant

      • A Realist

        So because it’s not a physical item, you don’t have to pay for it? Do you pay for your supply of electricity? Electricity is not a physical item, yet you still have to pay for it.

        There really is some twisted logic around here.

        • xmichaelx

          “So because it’s not a physical item, you don’t have to pay for it?”
          Exactly.

          “Electricity is not a physical item, yet you still have to pay for it.”
          Electricity is 100% a physical item. Don’t believe me? Put your tongue on one side of your car battery and grab hold of the other one. Look! A physical reaction!!

          (Also, if I could steal electricity, I would.)

        • blue_bomber

          I would say that because information is non-physical and non-scarce, people should not be able to control its distribution or communication. Making money off of copies of information and economic models should be far and away secondary issues.

          I pay for music files, for example, as long as they’re lossless (FLAC) and DRM-free. There’s no way in hell that I’d spend money on a music file that someone else already decided to encode in a lossy format at whatever bitrate. I’d just as soon spend the money on a physical CD. Plus, things like DRM and geographic differentiation of catalogs, e.g., iTunes, piss me off.

          PS: Electricity is a physical phenomenon.

    • Carlos

      If I had a replicator as the one from Star Trek I would scan one of the breads and create a copy for me. And I wouldn’t mind if the baker gets bankrupted because I would have the original data and I could have the same bread everyday.

      I wouldn’t steal the replicator. I would pay for it.The electricity that powers the replicator ? Yes, I would pay for it. The material that feeds the replicator ? Too. Why ?

      Because the economy is based on exchange. Let’s say my money represents Food, Water and Shelter. I may give that if you make a replicator for me, mine the iron that will manufacture the replicator, risk your life putting electricity cables on the street, etc.

      How I would be obligated to pay the baker for a bread that he didn’t even touched ? And what he lost ? The original bread’s still in the bakery. People could just replicate the damn bread and the baker would have no money anymore, yes.

      However… Who cares ? I have the right to not be altruistic for him. As you probably have no altruism for a train operator that lost his job because today, computers control the trains. So should be illegal to enter a train controlled by a machine just because somebody lost a job for it ? LOL

      And man, I personally give a fuck to the artists as they give for me. They don’t know me and I don’t know them. They entertain me, good. They are truly genious. And that’s it.

      If they don’t want anyone to copy the shit that they’ve made, they should not put on the Internet. Put the original recording on a flash-drive and lock it on a vault. No one would have the right to break the vault, as no one would have the right to invade the place that they are giving a concert. Simple, huh ?

      So… Yeah! You offended everybody here. I guess I have the same right. A little word that defines you: Alienated. End of the Entertainment Industry, really ? So all entertainment moves around stuff that is shared on the Internet ? Okdok then. Explain how Television, probably the same thing that gave you Apocalyptic ideas about this subject discussed here, survived through the years. As far I know you only pay the apparatus…

      Remember only one thing: Theft is when I take object X from you and you no longer have object X because now I have it without your authorization. And there’s a lot of people, including me, willing to not change this conception.

      There’s no need to control ideas. The only thing we need is to not kill and harm each other. Get over it.

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  • Trolllrotortlortl

    @ Wal-Mart you came to the wrong neighborhood mdafker

  • chronoss chiron

    AND the first thing out of a so called artists mouth isnt aobut creativity and creating cause he/she likes its all about money ….and therein is why you fail YOUR Not doing it cause you love music you love money…easy 150 year american money….well that will come to an end cause it cant save the us econmy nor provide everyone with a job

    and every time you bloodsuckers suck more out you just quicken your end now.

  • A Realist

    Excuses excuses excuses…..

    Do any of you lot go to the cinema? How do you get around paying those ticket prices, seeing as you believe copyright shouldn’t exist, and watching movies should be free?

    • Anonymous

      1. I download TS movies from the WWW because those tickets costs money that I do not have. And yes movies cost to much money to watch and buy.

      2. Copyright is fucking stupid

      3. My first answer coincides with why I watch movies for free, and why movies should be free.

      • Guest

        *too much money

      • A Realist

        And that attitude is exactly what is wrong with society. The belief that if you can’t afford it you just go and take it.

        • Anyone

          it doesn’t hurt anyone, so why would you NOT take it?

        • Guest

          I don’t, but having to sit here and listen to you preach about how I’m a pirate for purchasing legal storage media (blank media levies), how I have to support laws that demand six-figure fines for downloading files that cost the industry 70 cents to make, and how oversights in legal procedure are acceptable when it comes to licking the shoes of the RIAA is starting to get very, very tempting so I can rub it in your face.

          Most of the time piracy happens simply because it’s not available. There has never been a satisfactory answer responding to this aside from, “If you’re not privileged to live in the country this product is in, move house or gtfo.”

    • Anyone

      I do go to the cinema from time to time for 2 reasons:
      1) I don’t have a 3D capable screen yet
      2) I want to see it in decent quality as soon as possible

      now, that fits for about 3-4 movies a year, all the rest I want to watch I simply download
      they are generally not worth paying $10-20 that are being asked, if I couldn’t download them I wouldn’t download them either

      and that is part of the problem, all those copyrighted works that are not good enough to pay for will simply vanish because of copyright
      right now we already lost most of the culture from the 20th century because copyright still exists, but those that hold the copyright can’t be bothered to release it, because it would be too costly from them. and instead of releasing it into public domain they simply hold on to it forever
      that’s the real evil of copyright, ridding society of culture

    • Max Brenner

      Make the Rich pay. The rich have all our money. They stole it all from our blood sweat and tears.
      They want us to live as animals without culture or education.
      It’s time to get back what belongs to us.
      Steal it back!
      Steal back the wealth anyway you can!

  • A Realist

    @chronoss chiron

    If a recording artist didn’t care about any financial reward for his created works, he would give it away for free. Some do, and that’s great, but 99% don’t. They want, and deserve to get paid, it’s as simple as that.

    • Anyone

      hey, I just dug a hole in my backyard, now I want to be paid for the work I did!
      I deserve to be paid!

      if you want to be paid, sell something
      if you don’t sell something, don’t expect to be paid

  • Cuntrag

    Virtually everyone on this site gets up in the morning, browses the latest releases via let’s say, predb or orly, then downloads it, wither via superior newsgroups or torrents. Rinse and repeat day in day out. Piracy won’t stop this. Ever. On a side note, Dishonored for PC is out. Who’s downloading it?

  • downunder

    I like to know how they can even claim 1 million downloaded a song
    cos someone shared something dont mean any or many downloaded it and you dont know how many of those later went out
    and bought the cd cos they liked it. hence they may of benefited
    from it more then loss.

    it may of been 12 downloads at buck each thats a big $12 loss
    not a million dollars..

    demon was the site that tracked downloads and complete downloads
    and even the most popular tv shows would be lucky to get over 5000
    downloads.. most were average of like 100

    if it was kiwi music.. its more likely only 12 downloaded it.. cos kiwi music sucks balls generally.. even the best split endz has only a handful of good songs on all their cds and dave D.

    be good to see a musician take a chance and embrace bittorrent
    instead and upload a song for free and ask if they
    want to support you by donating so can produce some more songs from the revenue or if they pay for it.. they get
    a bonus unreleased track

    • downunder

      also it a good thing its $25 per offence,, as the isps are actually loosing money processing them. and prevents the infringement police submitting many notices based on said ips..

      I guess those kiwis werent very techsavvy either or someone hacked their wireless and got them in the shit :)

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