TorrentFreak

The place where breaking news, BitTorrent and copyright collide

Former Google CIO: LimeWire Pirates Were iTunes’ Best Customers

Delivering his keynote address at this week’s annual CA Expo in Sydney, former Google CIO Douglas C Merrill added to the growing belief that punishing and demonizing file-sharers is a bad idea. Merrill, who after his Google stint joined EMI records, revealed that his profiling research at the label found that LimeWire pirates were iTunes’ biggest customers.

Yesterday, during his keynote speech at the CA Expo in Sydney, former Google boss Douglas C Merrill said that companies stuck in the past risk becoming irrelevant. He also had some very interesting things to say about pirates.

Merrill, who was Chief Information Officer and Vice President of Engineering at Google, left the search giant in 2008 after being poached by EMI, a key member label of the RIAA.

At EMI he took up the impressive position of Chief Operating Officer of New Music and President of Digital Business, despite admitting this week that he knew the music industry was “collapsing”.

“The RIAA said it isn’t that we are making bad music, but the ‘dirty file sharing guys’ are the problem,” he said during his speech as quoted by ComputerWorld.

“Going to sue customers for file sharing is like trying to sell soap by throwing dirt on your customers.”

But those “dirty file-sharing guys” had an even dirtier secret. During his stint at EMI, Merrill profiled the behavior of LimeWire users and discovered something rather interesting. Those same file-sharing “thieves” were also iTunes’ biggest spenders.

“That’s not theft, that’s try-before-you-buy marketing and we weren’t even paying for it… so it makes sense to sue them,” Merrill said, while undoubtedly rolling his eyes.

That same “try-before-you-buy” discovery was echoed in another study we reported on last week which found that users of pirate sites, including the recently-busted Kino.to, buy more DVDs, visit the cinema more often and on average spend more at the box office than their ‘honest’ counterparts.

Merrill’s words yesterday are not the only pragmatic file-sharing related comments he’s made in recent years. Almost immediately after his 2008 EMI appointment, he made comments which didn’t necessarily tow the company line.

“For example, there’s a set of data that shows that file sharing is actually good for artists. Not bad for artists. So maybe we shouldn’t be stopping it all the time. I don’t know,” Merrill said.

“Obviously, there is piracy that is quite destructive but again I think the data shows that in some cases file sharing might be okay. What we need to do is understand when is it good, when it is not good…Suing fans doesn’t feel like a winning strategy,” he concluded.

Less than a year later, Merrill was forced out by EMI.

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  • http://billy.wenge-murphy.com/ Billy

    >Obviously, there is piracy that is quite destructive

    No, that’s not obvious at all. That’s as murky and poorly supported as all the other claims against it.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, it is. If someone illegally downloads huge amounts of songs and sells them slightly cheaper than store price, that could be quite destructive.

      • Guest

        That’s counterfeiting for-profit piracy. Sharing is non profit and they’re trying to lump sharers into the same group.

        • http://mart-e.be/ mart

          We are talking about piracy, not file-sharing. And yes I agree sometimes, piracy is destructive. Anonymous gave a good example.

        • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

          @ Anonymous + @ mart /

          That’s counterfeiting NOT …. piracy filesharing…….

          Filesharing was implied… when the term “piracy” was used…..

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        That’s about the only situation where it would be ‘quite destructive’, Anonymous…. when the piracy is done FOR PROFIT. Hopefully, these companies will wake up and realize that they are screwing themselves sometime soon.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FCNK7C55CBUYFVSC5LNWKB322E Buglord

      well, sharing isn’t actually piracy at all, pirates don’t raid ships and let the ships keep what the pirates came looking for…

      piracy, is mostly known as raiding ships at sea, pillaging villages by the shore and having or seeking treasure. (and that is obviously destructive)
      I can’t see a thing in that description that would suggest sharing something was piracy…

      • Danny

        The definition of piracy indicates that happens at sea.

        Maybe we all file-share on the high seas. I can see land outside but it might be a mirage!

      • guenthar martin

        Did you know that in dictionaries words can have more then one definition.

      • guenthar martin

        Did you know that in dictionaries words can have more then one definition.

      • guenthar martin

        Did you know that in dictionaries words can have more then one definition.

    • Atom

      He was obviously talking about Somalian pirates.

    • Aosika12

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  • D34ler

    This guy has hit the nail on the head.. i download “illegal” and yet i buy DVDs and CDs more than my friends that dont download “illegal”.. I’ve always referred to myself as “tryin before buyin”.. I know how to fix this whole problem.. STOP MAKING CRAP MOVIES AND SONGS AND YOU WONT LOSE MONEY :D

    • dlj

      Here is another idea, STOP FEEDING THE PEOPLE WHO IS PULLING OUT THIS CRAP ON THEIR CUSTOMERS :D

    • Agedinsoul

      just the download “illegal” thing again…i see you put it in quotes, ok, but people should be aware the downloading stuff (even copyrighted) isn’t illegal everywhere; where i live, the upload is illegal, probably because you could call it a form of distribution…downloading, however, is far from illegal here…

      other than that, how about “downloading copies” (i prefer that one over “illegal” and “stealing”, since technically the former isn’t the case everywhere and the latter is just plain ridiculous..

      and if one likes the music go to concerts to actually support the bands (technically, we could call that go and see them “working”)…granted, with films it’s different…you can’t go to a live performance unless you wanna call it a theatre ;)

    • Anonymous

      We can only hope politicians soon wake up and make non-profit file-sharing lawful.

      I always compare copyright to automobiles.

      Your ring up someone selling a car. “Hello how much does it cost to buy? Hmmm that is a bit high in my view. Can I come around and examine it first? A viewing fee? How much? No way man that is more than the car costs! I don’t care it is in one of your luxury viewing arenas with special mood lighting! I just want to examine it for free to see if it is any good or not! What viewing denied? OK sale denied then. Oh and screw you as well!”

  • Zan

    Over and over the same thing is said, so called pirates are the industries biggest buyers. Nothing else to add that hasn’t already been said time and time again. Oh and industry I dont download music if wanted to hear any I listen to online radio. and I do buy music just not from any of your artists, small independent artists ftw :)

    • Ab0m1nat10n

      “Over and over the same thing is said, ”

      When do you stop saying the same thing if no one is listening?

      –Piracy is STEALING
      –Um, no it’s copying.
      –But artists are losing money!
      –Um, no they’re not.
      –But it’s still not right, because people are stealing!
      –Um, no, they’re not….
      And so on and on and on

      When does it stop? If only there could be some real debate on the subject, but it is impossible when the industry and lawmakers continue to return to disproven arguments.

      So do you stop repeating yourself over and over, or do you keep going in hopes that someday they’ll unstuff their ears and listen?

      • Guest

        someone should copyright the English language, the alphabet, or even numbers. Then everyone is stealing information.

        • Anonymous

          No then everyone would just ignore them as the fools they are. No law or rule can be upheld if just about everyone ignores it.

          Copyright is much the same concept. Have everyone ignore the law on non-profit file-sharing and soon enough that law wont exist any more.

      • Guest

        It only stops when they have total control over the internet. That’s the goal: Power.

  • http://3xm.myopenid.com/ mmm

    Haha! Seems like he just accepted the job to mock EMI and RIAA. Good joob.

  • http://3xm.myopenid.com/ mmm

    Haha! Seems like he just accepted the job to mock EMI and RIAA. Good joob.

  • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

    @ all copywrong trolls

    “Told you so! You freakin’ DUMMIES :<"

  • http://www.facebook.com/caerdrioa Mark Davison

    So the guys selling knock off DVDS are not obvously destructive? Note that he clearly draws a line between Piracy and Filesharing – much the same as Filesharers do… He is saying that “there is piracy that is quite destructive” the same way that you could say “obviously there are gun users who are quite dangerous” . Not saying that all piracy is destructive, but obviously some of it is.

    Personally i think its rather refreshing to hear a rather high up industry figure echoing views that everyone on teh ground is somewhat well aware of that – the most of the people file sharing are people who already funnel a HUGE a mount of their disposable income into the fields ni question – usually for the items they downloads first.

    • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

      So refreshing that EMI fired the guy. They’d rather fight a losing war and alienate their customers. With ppl showing the middle finger to the middle men (ho!) more and more going for independent distribution through the internetz (even Harry Pot is being sold electronically from the author’s site now!) and with more and more ppl endorsing file sharing (Paulo Coelho, Merrill, Radiohead, many indie producers) it’s a matter of time they [the big, greedy and despicable labels/studios -MAFIAA) give themselves the merciful shot in the head and leave us alone.

      Oh wait, unfortunately we do buy official goods and they post record revenues every year. Oh dear, it’s gonna be one bloody long battle.

      • Elisa ? Knockout™

        One of the most amazing things I’ve read was nine inch nails releasing a song with a Creative Common license.That really set off their career but even back then once the labels realized their success the labels still tried suing. I honestly think that these labels are run by a bunch of psychopaths.

        • Bruno

          Yeah, that was awsome. but it wasn’t just a song, it was a whole album! It was Ghosts. I even bought a physical copy. It was released under CC Non-commercial share-alike.

          The other day i heard it used in an indie video game called “The Cat and The Coup” about Iran’s coup d’etat of ’53 in which you play as the prime minister’s cat XD, surreal stuff. It’s freeware on Steam if you want to check it out.

          Oh, I forgot he also released another record, “The Slip” under the same lincense, he even release the multi-track audio source files of both albums to make it easier to remix.

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          Sweet i have to hear it ;)

      • Dammit!

        Ok, we need to set things straight:
        The MAFIAA does not care about selling music anymore. Saying “they must be stupid since they don’t realize they’re losing their customers” is actually what’s stupid.
        The MAFIAA are now making their money with lawsuits. They’re still making money out of sales, but their goal is to switch from selling music to suing people. The more people pirate, the happier they are because this makes more lawsuits to profit from.

        You can pull out all the studies you want that show pirates are good customers, it will never convince the MAFIAA to stop the lawsuits. Because they want to sue, they don’t want to sell. If they had their way (i.e. suing anyone for anything involving music/movies, and for millions of dollars) they’d make much more money than they have ever made so far. Imagine they could sue everyone in North America and Europe for a million dollars…

        You want to get piracy legalized faster? Then stop telling people “The music industry leaders are stupid who don’t see why piracy is good” instead tell them “They’re evil, trying to make profit off the legal system and at everyone’s expense”.

        As for Torrent Freak: shame on you for still reporting those “piracy is good” studies. This is way beside the point. Please to some critical journalism and start tackling the real issues. The MAFIAA wants lawsuits, not sales. Should be obvious to you people by now.

        • Anonymous

          What you said is simply not true. Sure the MAFIAA have tried but their conclusions are that attacking home users is bad PR and court cases cost them more than what they gain. Copyright protection costs them more than what copyright protection recovers which is why any money copyright protection does make only funds more copyright protection.

          It is instead individual studios, usually of the pornographic kind, who supplement their lost sales (due to endless free lawful Internet porn) by lawsuits against the infringers. Anyone can fornicate on camera and upload. Their monopoly is dead and so is their business model. So what do we care about Hollywood’s hungry whores?

          The rest is mostly individual movie productions who prefer to blame file-sharers for poor sales than to just say the three words “my movie sucked”. Yes it can make extra money for them, and much contempt, but that seems temporary.

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          I’d say he’s partially right for part of the content producers. Produce some crap, invest in heavy advertisement with misleading trailers, make some “burst” money in the first few days and then when mouth to mouth has rendered your movie unable to generate a good flow of revenue you sue the heck out of the file sharers to make the money your movie should be making through litigation.

          There’s also the Disney like litigators that are unable to produce good new stuff (let us leave Pixar out of the equation for now) and keep litigating over your owned copyrights while exploiting your titles by making insipid sequels or variants. I’ve mentioned Disney but I bet many of us can think of several examples of franchises that are being exploited to exhaustion.

          Then there are the ones that have been sort of brainwashed (by their own retrograde minds in some cases) into believing religiously that (home taping) file sharing is killing the industry. They’ll litigate in self defense. But stupidity and self-defense are no excuses for keep acting as morons and ignoring what ppl tell you.

          And there’s the pure greed. While I cannot specify how much of the content industry is moved by pure and rotten greed, cases like Oracle that bought the excellent Sun and turned it into a litigation monster to the point developers are avoiding Java and the likes illustrate this.

          Things are complex my friend… More than we could ever wish.

  • http://www.facebook.com/caerdrioa Mark Davison

    So the guys selling knock off DVDS are not obvously destructive? Note that he clearly draws a line between Piracy and Filesharing – much the same as Filesharers do… He is saying that “there is piracy that is quite destructive” the same way that you could say “obviously there are gun users who are quite dangerous” . Not saying that all piracy is destructive, but obviously some of it is.

    Personally i think its rather refreshing to hear a rather high up industry figure echoing views that everyone on teh ground is somewhat well aware of that – the most of the people file sharing are people who already funnel a HUGE a mount of their disposable income into the fields ni question – usually for the items they downloads first.

  • Anonymous

    He didn’t follow the company lies…Poor him. Hope he landed on his feet.

  • http://otester.myopenid.com/ PiRat

    IPR is a trojan horse for internet censorship/control.

    Of course EMI was going to get shot of him.

    The Big4 have the bankers backing, meaning unlimited cash, they get the internet censored/taken over, they get to keep their monopolies and the bankers get world government.

  • Him

    so the moral of the story is, expect the worse if you speak sense, if you speak the truth, when what you say is contrary to what your employing industry says and is convincing, usually in unscroopulous ways, the politicians and law makers, to agree with, simply to keep the old industry alive and the dollars flowing into the pockets of execs, not the artists

  • Pingback: ???????? ???????? – ??? ??? ????? ???????? « De Libertate Iuris Digitalis

  • Elisa ? Knockout™

    Omg haven’t i aswell as bajillion people said this like a brazillion times before. I’m atleast happy one person in the industry, which is all it takes, could possibly make changes and reshape what’s been said about the p2p community. But honestly i think the younger generation in the industry understand more than the computer illiterate baby-boomers. I mean see for yourself all that claim “file sharing is stealing” are old like in there 50′s 60′s 70′s etc.
    Just sayin’ !

    • Anonymous

      Maybe not a “bajillion” people, but certainly quite a few. Including most of us on TF for sure. Indeed though, the younger generation is growing up with technology and a different mindset. So it’s only inevitable that one day they’ll be in a position to make their voices heard. And the status quo will definitely change.

      • Elisa ? Knockout™

        Lol you know us typical teens saying bajillion silly goose ;p
        Yeah anyways it’s true what you said. They should learn from us.

        • Anonymous

          You kids and your wacky sayings. Lol. I used to say “giganonsense” (pronounced: jig-uh-nonsense) and “wickety wack” and “yeppa” (which was a made up word used to insult people, and surprisingly, despite being completely made up and obviously having no actual meaning, a lot of people took serious offense to being called a yeppa) a lot when I was 18, so I shouldn’t talk.

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          Haha, I never heard of wickety wack nor yeppa? Why what does yeppa mean? If it’s bad don’t tell me here. ;P

        • Anonymous

          I wrote “definitions” on WordPress. Feel free to give ‘em a read. It’s a gift from my generation to yours. (Shh. I know we’re from the same generation. Let me have this. So I can feel like I’m sharing knowledge.)

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          lol k on your wordpress right?

    • Guest

      As a baby-boomer, I can tell you that even we can figure it out. Back in the day, xerox machines were going to wipe out the sheet music and book industries. They told us that using cassette tapes to record radio was going to kill the music industry. Then VCRs were going to kill the movie industry. Then CDs. Then DVDs. MP3 players. Now the Internet. This propaganda war has been going on for as long as technology has existed.

      It’s not the baby-boomers that are the problem, it’s the industry execs that are buying control of the political system in the country for their personal profit at the cost of the real content creators. By keeping creators and customer separated and at odds, the middlemen win.

      • Elisa ? Knockout™

        Yeah well at the moment it was the first thing i could think of because basically everyone talking anti-piracy are allot older than myself and many file sharers. It’s not much to ask but to just listen to the younger generation.

        • Rdpastkwyfb

          What you’re saying seems rather funny to me (definitely a baby boomer here), because looking around at my grandkids and their friends, all I see are youngsters (over)paying iTunes or Amazon for everything. I have friends who are teachers, their schools get visited by reps of the Content Industry who give them “teaching tools” about (their version) of copyright “rules”.

          As others have already said, it isn’t about age. Believe me, it isn’t. It’s about people who are paid to spout garbage and nonsense for the mobsters. They know better than to believe their own lies, but they’ll never admit it.

          What MY generation would ask of YOUR generation would be to get your heads out of your iPods/iPhones/Androids/whatever and learn to value your freedoms…also, to learn the difference between low-life, greedy, extortionist crooks, and old people. Most old people don’t like the MAFIAA either.

          Now, gimme my cassette tapes back and get off my lawn…

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          This is the second time i heard get off my lawn in 1 day. well i mentioned earlier that
          “Yeah well at the moment it was the first thing i could think of because basically everyone talking anti-piracy are allot older than myself and many file sharers. It’s not much to ask but to just listen to the younger generation. ”
          I am sorry if you took that wrong i know there are good elders ;)

  • Anonymous

    He’s a witch! Get him! Jk. This certainly is interesting. Someone IN THE KNOW saying something like this. It can’t be waved off so easily. Then again, he did previously work at Google. And plenty of “people” (you can’t say trolls or shills, because they suddenly get very offended) will dismiss his views for that. “Because Google supports pirating of music and movies. As is made evident by their unreasonable stance and failure to support internet censorship.” (Their words, or variations thereof. Not mine.) What is also interesting to see is his mention of studies that show “pirates” buy more than regular non-pirates. Which is information that is pretty much suppressed across the board. That’s something you don’t actually hear anyone from the industry say, you tend to hear the opposite. So definitely nice to hear that from someone. Particularly someone (formerly) in the music industry, like I said, it’s not so easy to dismiss his words. Because he was involved in said industry and he actually knows what he’s talking about.

    I for one tip my hat to him. F*ck it. You may have been fired, but you didn’t tow the company line. That alone is worth of respect.

    • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

      Indeed. As the great tech ‘wizard’ he is he was ‘fired’ by EMI for uncovering the ‘magic’ of the file sharers. 8D

      They can take his job away but they can’t take the respect. Great job indeed!

      • Elisa ? Knockout™

        One of the most amazing things I’ve read was nine inch nails releasing a song with a Creative Common license. That really set off their career but even back then once the labels realized their success the labels still tried suing. I honestly think that these labels are run by a bunch of psychopaths.

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          Because copyright does everything BUT protect the artists and creativity today ;)

  • Anon-e-mus

    The pirates won’t complain against this report, that’s for sure. Of course nobody needs to show proof or evidence when speaking for the pirates and it automatically becomes a fact and yet you say anything against them, you need to show all the proof in the world and its still not enough.

    • Anonymous

      Obviously, you aren’t aware that some of these reports have been discussed by TF in a few articles. If you search yourself, because I’m not going to do it for you, you can find links to them. Thus the proof is there, you just have to get it yourself. It is available. Then again, depends on which report. There have been several by several different groups.

      And yes, if you do say something against “them”, since you are speaking from a holier than thou playing it by the book WE’RE LEGAL AND YOU’RE BREAKING THE LAW attitude, you do have to present proof. To prove your point. Otherwise, it is just hearsay. Because I’ve seen their “proof”. Claimed losses, while at the same time found further proof that shows they’re all making record breaking profits.

      • Elisa ? Knockout™

        my Dear sir,
        Arguing with corp-rat dinosaurs will argue at whatever angle they can possibly think of, just to avoid the truth. More or less it’s like arguing with a brick.But atleast with a brick you can start a conversation and the brick will have no choice but to listen.

        • Anon-e-mus

          Lol you love sucking up to anyone who you agree with or who will agree with you, don’t you? Get a backbone already. What a suckup hehe..

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          Sucking up no maybe you do!! Maybe that’s your plan to suck up to the industry and suck up to Rupert Murdoch Sumner Redstone and all the idiots in the industry. I’m just another victim of sad toms like you that can’t speak for themselves and have to relay the message of the industry.
          Maybe if arseholes like you can actually listen to the the people that listen to your crap music and remakes of films from other countries we wouldn’t hate the industry so much.
          Secondly, many of the people on here are people who’ve known me for nearly a year or so and basically we repeat the same shit over and over. But to penetrate a thought in people like yourself is just like i said “atleast you can talk to a brick and it’ll listen.”

        • Anon-e-mus

          Lol keep thinking I am someone from the industry if that makes you happy. For all I know, I am just an average Joe who pays for the good films and music the industry produces and ignores the crappy ones instead of stealing them from the internet by taking advantage of anonymity and throwing around excuses as to why I find the crap movie worthy of downloading and watching but not worthy of paying for.

          May be the industry would start listening to you if you ever said anything worth listening to.

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          Your argument is so irrelevant to anything that has to do with anything worth listening to. Was the stealing actually directed towards me? lmao aw poor little man with one hand on his little peter and the other on the keyboard. Because that’s about the only action you’ll ever get. Just sayin.
          Opps, I’m going off topic,lol. You might want to get out of your home once and a blue moon and get friends and a social life instead of talking to your computer. What’s that word “sock puppet”. Mhmm!!
          and then I found five dollars!

        • Anon-e-mus

          Ahaha so typical of a nerd to take potshots at someone’s social life when you have nothing to better to say. In other words you just got owned as you were forced to go off-topic.

          As for my social life, you don’t have to worry about me as I far better off than the average Joe in that regards. You should instead worry about your own social life :P

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          Mhmm, I’m a total nerd!! Yes i am and people love it. Next time you might want to click that self destruct button in the middle of your forehead it’s kinda gross. You really aren’t as witty as you think you are stop flirting with me ,please.
          My life is filled with friends and love.We can communicate laugh and do actual things that actual people do in the real world. So do average joes like you find being rude and nasty to people gets you anywhere in life? What is your motive? Seriously for fucks sacks. Are you one of those random creeps that like stalking people?

        • Anon-e-mus

          I don’t call it insult, I was just talking straight as usual. You must be the kind who can dish it out but can’t take it.

          And oh yeah of course you are the only one with any friends and please feel free to assume I have none since you are quite big on random assumptions.

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          NO, I can handle it just after a while when someone is persistent using 20 different names. I can sense that all you care about is insulting people and who exactly started with who?

          I’m not new around here so the few people who I actually chat with regularly you decided to make a derogatory towards me first.Then you continue acting like a complete jerk. I only said stuff about “friends” because you’re saying that all pirates “steal” yada yada.

          Well, honestly I shop more than I should regularly consume. My closets filled with shoes clothes movies old records cd’s even something called ld’s(laser disc) that my older sister collected before cd’s/dvd’s became popular.

          Please move on.

          I support the p2p community because it’s what i grew up around. Maybe if you opened your eyes instead of your mouth you could open up to a whole new world, instead of having a huge inferiority complex. Then again your ego is filled with nasty comments and all you can think of is another rebuttal just to continue In one ear out the other!

      • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

        That. Obviously we don’t know on what basis Merrill made those statements. But he had access to EMI and he has the skills and the contacts at Google to find the data. Maybe he should engage in writing some sort of essay about his finds while pointing to the data.

        In any case, there are other studies out there proving his point. Again, it’s obvious that some of them lack proper sampling procedures or don’t even disclose these sampling procedures at all. Which takes us to the anti-piracy reports.

        Most of the anti-piracy reports we’ve seen, if not all of them (there might be a comprehensive study at some point but I can’t really recall) are completely biased and flawed. The biggest flaw in most of them is the 1 download = 1 lost sale = lost revenue. Even if there are cases where the downloader would buy the content if it wasn’t there for free, my personal experience clearly says the equation is not true. Simply because there are items I download more than once due to various reasons, items that I would never buy if I had not download (thus 1 download = 1 sale = profit) and things that I would never buy after downloading (thus 1 download = 1 lost CUSTOMER, not sale). Other variations may apply. And I can think of at least 15 individuals that I know right now that have very similar habits.

        But it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter how reasoned we – file sharers – are, how reasoned our arguments are, how carefully we look at each study (I’ve cast doubt to the sampling method of previous pro-file sharing studies here on TF, might research for citations later)….. None of this matters for the copyright trolls. There’s only MAFIAA ins their sacred altars and the absolute truth it yells in a parrot fashion. Everything else is nothing but work of infidels ;)

        • Anon-e-mus

          There we go again. Its the same thing I said in my original post. You keep saying the anti-piracy studies are flawed and yet you have shown no convincing proof that the pro-piracy reports weren’t flawed and conducted without bias. Then why should we believe any of the pro-piracy reports are unbiased and compiled without using flawed methods or ideas?

        • Anonymous

          @ Anon-e-mus

          Technically, they aren’t “pro-piracy” reports. They’re just reports about “piracy”. Which happen to say that from studies conducted and evidence found, it is apparent that “pirates” tend to spend more on legally and legitimately purchased media (music, movies, books, etc) than the average person (a.k.a. non-pirate). Also, yet again, if you find the reports yourself, by searching for them here on TF, you can determine whether or not they were flawed and/or conducted without bias. But, from what I remember, the reports that show this (that “pirates” spend more than the average person) tend to be conducted by independent groups. As in they did the reports and studies on their own, with no financial backing from groups like the MPAA/RIAA. What that means is, the reports weren’t funded by said groups, which would lead to obvious bias.

          The reason he (Ninja) is saying the other studies are flawed, is because they tend to be funded by those 2 groups I mentioned. Which leads to obvious bias. It’s also apparent, because only those studies are ever mentioned. The ones that say “piracy is killing wre wre wre”. We just had an article less than a week ago, which was conducted on behalf of the MPAA/RIAA (or one of their affiliates in another country) which determined the same thing. Not same thing as in “piracy is killing wre wre wre” but same thing as in “pirates actually purchase more stuff legally than any other people”. But that the report, most unfortunately, was suppressed on the part of the client who paid for the study. Because it did not fit in with their preferred point of view and stated something entirely different from what they say.

          Also, in regards to your original comment, the pirates aren’t the only one who do that. Say something’s a fact without presenting proof. And also, saying well I don’t need proof but you do. The anti-pirates do it just as often, if not more so. If you look around on this site, and read most of the comments, you’ll see it tends to come from Anonymous types like yourself. There are more than a few who say “I’m right, and I don’t need to present proof, but you do if you say anything that contradicts what I say.” The biggest one who does that is from your camp. So don’t lay it all on one group, when the other group is just as guilty. That’s bias. And no, not all people who are anti-piracy or pro-piracy are that way. But if you’re looking for something specific to fit in with your point of view, you’ll always find it. Even if it’s not the whole truth.

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          Have you read my comment Anon-e-mus? I’m assuming no from your reply. I’ve commented about how some studies that paint file sharing as a good thing sometimes don’t have a good basis. I’m no idiot, I’m educated in statistics and sampling and I can assure you that there are sampling issues in a good few studies. I like to mention the Danish one but it is… DANISH. So while I do agree that the trend observed in Denmark (that file sharing is widely accepted) is also applicable to the rest of the world we’d need a broader study with a much broader and aleatory sample.

          But studies are not about sampling. There’s a quite comprehensible tracking of the online traffics and of the downloads (via tracker stats) of most torrent files for instance. However, the fact that you see a determined torrent was downloaded X times from a determined site mean nothing. As I said, I tend to download things more than once depending on the content. I also have 3 different computers so it’s not uncommon for me to launch the torrents (and downloading) on different machines (often in different connections). MAFIAA counts my habits as 3 or 4 ppl. And they assume all those are lost sales. This approach is FLAWED. You don’t know what motivated the downloader. You don’t know if the downloader doesn’t already possess the said material. You don’t know if he is planning to buy it. I have 2 original copies of each Lord of the Rings movie (normal and extended versions) because I’m a huge fan. But I’ve also downloaded them all (extended included) so basically I’m 6 lost sales to MAFIAA and it’s not true.

          I’m feeding the troll, yes, it doesn’t matter what I say you, Anon-e-mus, will ignore what’s in conflict with your beliefs and spill nonsensical questions and attacks on me and whoever. I’m not an idiot to believe in each and every study/research/article that’s released. I take my time to read the studies when they seem to be interesting. I give special attention to the sampling and the assumptions (as in simplifications) they use and which statistical method they apply when treating the data collected. Oh, it happens that MAFIAA studies are flawed. All of the ones I’ve took the time to read.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PXX4S66KOUIGIKTTIMV3CBGO7Y Colin

      I hope you are not trying to imply that ‘pirates’ are as fundamentally dishonest as the MAFIAA.

      • Elisa ? Knockout™

        Lol, You pinned the needle on the donkeys ass! High 5 – 5 ?’s!!

    • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

      AAAAAAAAAaaaaaahahahahahahahahah…

      OK, OK I got my breath back now – but a sincere and genuine “thank you” for that gut-busting laugh.

      Where were we? Oh yes! We were laughing at IFPI (the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry – btw anyone know what a phonograph is, and does anyone use them any more?

      Why are we laughing at IFPI? For the same reason we LoL at the BPI, AFACT, CRIA, MAFIAA, blah fecken blah coz you’re all corrupt asswipes who’ve creamed off the general public for so long you can’t even keep your own “industry” execs out of jail or those that speak the truth in a job.

      Still need to modernise that business model guys? lol

      • Anon-e-mus

        Don’t laugh too hard or you might just die of laughter and then your momma’s gonna ask me to pay for your funeral lol.

  • Pentrio

    It doesn’t even matter anymore. The record labels and the film industry has demonized us to a point where we see them as the enemy as well. I haven’t bought a cd or dvd in almost a year and I plan to go on like this. I’d rather have no movies than have this retarded system. I personally know of 10~ people in real life who share my views and have ceased to spend money on fueling the war against ‘pirates’.

    • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

      That. If anything, the MAFIAA are the ones creating a whole new category of ‘pirates’ or file sharers if you will: the ones that won’t ever buy from them because of their aggressive and unreasonable stance.

    • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

      You mean you don’t relish being a scared victim on the run being constantly hunted down, pursued, harassed then sued simply for sharing a digital file for free at no charge to the recipient, no profit for you and no personal gain either?

      I wonder where the brutally fascist element enters into this situation.

  • Mikey

    Personally I think we should do what the labels want. Let’s all stop file-sharing their music, movies, and TVShows. Then since we can’t try before we buy, let’s turn to more independent artists who self publish on services like vodo.net or jamendo.

    Then after all those dinosaurs go bankrupt, we can then turn to new services and technology which actually helps the consumer and artist ;)

    • Anonymous

      You’re comment reminded me of the song “Dinosaurs Will Die” by NOFX. If you haven’t heard it, check it out. I’m aiming that not at yourself, but at everyone who sees this comment. It’s a really great song and it hits the nail on the head, so to speak, in regards to the music industry.

      Oh, and here are the lyrics, which I believe all (or most of us here, completely and totally agree with):
      http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/nofx/dinosaurswilldie.html

    • Anon-e-mus

      Like that’s gonna ever happen. Pirates will never stop pirating Hollywood movies because Hollywood movies are head and shoulders above what any indie producers can make. Same goes with indie artists and devs. They produce crap shit compared to what the entertainment industry produces.

      If pirates can show they have the balls to live without Hollywood movies and music produced by artists contracted by labels, then I will be convinced. Until then, pirates are nothing but thieves and scum of the society who will look for any excuse they can find to justify stealing.

      • got teeth?

        why dont u make a gay porn film, and ill come show u how big my balls are……then ill leech the film, and make u feel special…………then u can sue me…….to get more money, and we can make more gay porn………win win.

        u get to sue me a few times, and get the money to keep making shit films, and ill get to watch the movie of me showing you my big pirate balls.

        • Anon-e-mus

          You obviously watch too much gay porn since that’s all you can come up with.

      • got teeth?

        downloaded, stolen gay porn…by a thieving thief..at least theres some action, not like the crap you are trying to defend.

      • Payback

        wrong i can do all the special affects that anyone can , i just need double the time to do it. ADD a few buds and a person that can make cloths and a guy that can build a few tings and wella you got a good cool movie

      • Josh C

        Dude… The music industry is being flooded with no-talent hacks who only got a record contract because they wanted money. To say that the music/movie/etc industries care about the artist anymore is a complete b/s. If they did, they wouldn’t try chasing away their fan bases over a something that can be easily bought later…

    • Ab0m1nat10n

      I wish we could do that.

      –So, industry, you don’t want us to “steal” your stuff?
      –No sht that’s why we’ve been hunting you down for years.
      –Fine, we’ll stop.
      –Lovely! So glad we could work it out…. wait, where are my sales going……??

      It would probably work if enough people did it. Because to be honest, lots of people are pirating stuff they would never actually buy unless they had already seen/heard it already

      Probably not going to happen, though. People pirate stuff they like, so you can’t just be like “Hey, don’t watch all those movies/listen to the music that you love so that we can spite the people who made them.”

      Sad.

  • Guest

    So obviously I’m being ignored nice knowing you torrentfreak. I’m starting to feel as if I’m chatting to myself.

    • srsly

      1: Your name is Guest
      2: Don’t ever expect people to read what you write only because you too got a keyboard
      3: It’s the internet, USE CAPS IF YOU WANNA STAND OUT
      4: Your name is Guest, seriously..
      5: You can feel sorry for yourself, but you’ll be the only one
      6: Be rude, because rude comments are more interesting to read.
      7: Have something on your mind, and be ready to argue about it no matter how lame the responses are you might get.
      8: Try to be original, don’t just c/p what everyone else is saying
      9: Your name is Guest, omfg.
      10: Use links to prove your point, you’re obviously insecure (or just slightly retarded) so whatever you have said that was so uninteresting you had to whine about being ignored, you should’ve used links to back up your facts.
      11: There’s no room for sympathy on the internet, so don’t expect any.
      12: Your name is Guest ffs, be more creative.
      13: Seems like a nice number to end on, kthxbye.

      See? You’re not being ignored, you just did all of this wrong ;)

    • Anonymous

      @ srsly

      Lol. Did you really have to say “your name is Guest” that many times?

      @ Guest

      You aren’t being ignored. You’ve only written one comment on here. That was just a comment saying you feel as if you’re chatting with yourself. There’s not much room to reply to that. Say something. About the article, about file sharing, etc. Something though. A vague “nobody wants to play with me” isn’t going to get you any replies. Besides a possible “well, no one can play with you like you can play with yourself”. : P Or like, srsly said, you’re not being ignored, you’re just going about things all wrong. May I suggest the classic, “What’s all this then?” That’ll get you a response, guaranteed.

    • Deafignorant

      what? can’t hear you..

    • Payback

      what was it you said?

    • Payback

      what was it you said?

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  • Anonymous

    That actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
    http://www.web-privacy.au.tc

    • Xult

      PigLoo…
      Flagged.

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  • XXX

    Once a specie become a parasite their brain shrink. No difference with the entertainment industry.

    Now we have to kill them all.

  • http://profiles.google.com/orfetheo Orfeas Theofanis

    From what I’ve noticed, people who download a lot are people who like and/or are enthusiasts of that art, whether that’s motion pictures or music.
    I personally download a lot, buy I still go to the theaters pretty often. So am I a bad customer for downloading 10-15 movies and watching 2-3 (sometimes 5) movies in the cinema every month?
    What else do they want us to do? Spend 30% of our salary/money on their products?

    • Payback

      so your supporting all the lawsuits , how kind of you

    • Payback

      so your supporting all the lawsuits , how kind of you

  • http://www.madanalogy.com Chuck LeDuc Díaz

    “Toe the line”, not “tow the line”.

  • Payback

    and now that france starts kicking people off watch sales to die, and i wonder if this isnt some guy laughing in background knowing that maybe inside ten years all the labels will be uberly busted , that this wasn’t his awful evil way of doing it.

    YA i had too much coffee today…strange ideas are popping into my head….only insane people after all do what they are quit trying to figur eit out and look for the end game of how to win….

  • Payback

    and now that france starts kicking people off watch sales to die, and i wonder if this isnt some guy laughing in background knowing that maybe inside ten years all the labels will be uberly busted , that this wasn’t his awful evil way of doing it.

    YA i had too much coffee today…strange ideas are popping into my head….only insane people after all do what they are quit trying to figur eit out and look for the end game of how to win….

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  • Briana

    The way I see it, I can go out and buy albums, then make some of my friends mix cds a few days later because i know they’d enjoy it. Now i know no one here is going to honestly try to tell me that that’s deserving being sued, because i’m pretty positive 99% of you all have made a mixtape for a friend or significant other or something at one point or another. So why is putting the songs on the internet for my friends deserving of suing when the same exact thing on a hard copy is not? Because it’s available to more people? Well guess what, about 60% of the bands out there that are making their way in the industry wouldn’t be if it wasn’t for music sharing. No one would ever know about them because no one is going to spend hard earned money in an economy like this on a band they’ve never heard of and know nothing about. Once they’re exposed more and out there then the people who have become true fans will be spending money on merchandise, live performances, and even the actual albums if they love the band enough.
    Seriously, it’s the equivalent of supermarkets scolding us for donating our canned goods to the soup kitchen during the holidays because those fuckers should be out buying it themselves. Guess what, either way, those extra people aren’t going to buy the music. The only thing that’s going to change here is whether those people are going to know the music in question or not.

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  • LalalaMan

    Eat dick RIAA! HA! In your face

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  • ttttt

    I worked at EMI (Capitol) in LA when Merrill was hired. I setup all his stuff the day he showed up. Cool guy really. He was forced out because he wanted to totally shake up the place from the ground up. The old-guard freaked out cuz they realized they were dinosaurs. He was forced out after that. They are still there, i’m not…thank God.

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  • someguy

    People have been enjoying free entertainment since before the time of Shakespeare.

    Up until this time people donated to performers voluntarily.
    The fact that performers existed proves that this was sustainable economically for performers to operate in this payment optional free market environment.

    Shakespeare’s innovation was to create a ‘theater’ and make people pay to see the artists.
    Of course Shakespeare has his own style which he was and still is famous for.
    Funnily enough some of his plays were adaptations of other people works.

    Many parts of literature are adaptations of the Iliad.

    It’s sad that copy-wrong has destroyed the art it claims to protect.

    Artists who remix (just like Shakespeare) the works of others are punished and art suffers as a result.

    De la Soul is a good example of great re-mixers who are hamstrung but today’s environment.

    The article proves that there are multiple markets for licensing art. Some people are in multiple markets simultaneously.

    The recording industry should wake up, they are obsolete in their current format and need to change in order to survive. They have had it too good for too long and have been screwing the artists and the customers for decades.

  • Anonymous

    >> Merrill, who after his Google stint joined EMI records

    WRONG. It’s “EMI Music”, one of the 4 major music companies. “EMI Records” is/was a UK-based record label owned by the EMI Music parent, and carries a different meaning.

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  • Doggystyle

    He should never had left Google for EMI.

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  • Jmlgbm

    so if my friend brings me around a cd and i put it on to play and i choose the import button… is that piracy.. i think not… slippery slope people.. very slippery indeed

  • Jmlgbm

    so if my friend brings me around a cd and i put it on to play and i choose the import button… is that piracy.. i think not… slippery slope people.. very slippery indeed

  • Ajthenutter

    That made me think the I’m probably the worst kind of downloader as I have tonnes of stuff :s …but really a large amount of it is stuff I probably wouldn’t even own if I was paying for it, although I do buy the stuff I would buy without TPB for the better quality… which is a point, because the quality of most mp3′s on lime wire is completely shit, most of the songs sound like they were recorded on someones phone whilst being played by their mate on a bus… so at least in the case of lime wire if people actually like the content they are fully willing to buy it…

  • B_rad

    i think if a band is gonna have 80 -100 000 or more at there concert a 100 times a year they should be happy … if every one bought cd’s and dvds then would the say i cannot afford to go to a concert. that is a much smaller profiet then concerts. piracy is bad but what can you do

  • Virusrob

    I use torrents to download my music, if i didn’t have that facility i wouldn’t buy the music i’ve downloaded, which make me not get into a new band and go to there gigs, resulting in them losing money. Luckily my favoured band is nine inch nails, Trent reznor, the frontman, put his last album on the internet for a free download, but allowed people to buy a hard company in stores. He’s not living in the past!

  • blah

    another thing i noticed is that hardcore pirates have the best taste in music as they have the opportunity to listen to pretty much anything even of slight interest.
    where as the ones who don’t download are stuck listening to that generic garbage you see on TV.. file-sharing also allows poor people to get an education (im proof)

  • blah

    another thing i noticed is that hardcore pirates have the best taste in music as they have the opportunity to listen to pretty much anything even of slight interest.
    where as the ones who don’t download are stuck listening to that generic garbage you see on TV.. file-sharing also allows poor people to get an education (im proof)

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  • thisworldisatoiletletsfixit

    It all comes down to the word share really! When you’re brought up isn’t that one of the most valuable lessons you are taught? People that can afford to buy the nice fancy copy with perfect quality do! Who wants a bunch of shitty looking blank cds and dvds with hand written titles and no track lists or lyrics or band info! The people downloading files are the ones that can’t afford to buy the stuff! Those people are just as valuable as the ones buying the mint copy for 20 bucks! They tell all their friends and family how good or great this band or that movie is and the ones that can afford it go out and buy it! Those that can’t download it and spread the word to their friends and family and the same thing takes place! Leave people alone and focus on making good quality entertainment like you greedy bastards once did! I am pretty poor right now, I can barely afford this internet connection I am using right now! All you idiots are doing is making everyone hate you and the stuff you produce! Think outside the box! Ever hear that before?

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