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iiNet Fights Off Hollywood, ISP Not Responsible For Online Piracy

The Federal Court of Australia has dismissed the movie industry’s appeal against a 2010 ruling which found that Internet service provider iiNet is not responsible for copyright infringements carried out by its file-sharing customers. iiNet boss Michael Malone described the decision as a relief while AFACT boss Neil Gane said “it cannot be right” that the ISP takes no responsibility.

The Full Bench of the Federal Court in Australia has just dismissed the movie industry’s appeal against last year’s judgment which found that ISP iiNet did not authorize the copyright infringements of its file-sharing customers.

Represented by anti-piracy group AFACT, nearly three dozen Hollywood and local studios took iiNet to court in 2008. In a 2009 trial the ISP was accused of doing nothing to stop its customers downloading films and TV shows but in February 2010 the Federal Court decided that iiNet was not responsible for their activities. An appeal was heard later that year and today the decision was handed down.

Justice Emmett said that the Court continued to agree that the rights of the movie companies had been infringed but could not find in their favor.

“While I disagree with the primary judge’s reasoning in significant respects, I am nevertheless of the opinion that his Honour’s decision to dismiss the proceeding was correct,” the ruling reads. “In my opinion the appeal should be dismissed.”

The ruling itself is an absolutely huge affair and will take a considerable time to digest, but at this early stage it seems quite clear that even after two years of legal battles, this fight is probably still not over.

“Even though the Copyright Owners are not entitled to the relief claimed in this proceeding, it does not follow that that is an end of the matter. It is clear that the questions raised in the proceeding are ongoing,” the ruling reads.

“It does not necessarily follow that there would never be authorisation within the meaning of s 101 of the Copyright Act by a carriage service provider, where a user of the services provided by the carriage service provider engages in acts of infringement such as those about which complaint is made in this proceeding.

“It does not necessarily follow from the failure of the present proceeding that circumstances could not exist whereby iiNet might in the future be held to have authorised primary acts of infringement on the part of users of the services provided to its customers under its customer service agreements.”

Nevertheless, on the thorny demand by AFACT that iiNet should have blindly sent out warnings and suspend customer accounts based on the information it provided, the ruling is clear.

“I do not think [iiNet] could reasonably be expected to issue warnings, or to terminate or suspend particular accounts, in reliance upon any such notice in circumstances where it has been told nothing at all about the methods used to obtain the information which lead to the issue of the notice,” it reads. “Nor should it be up to the respondent to seek out this information from a copyright owner who chooses not to provide it in the first place.”

iiNet chief executive Michael Malone said he was “relieved” at the outcome.

“Our original contention was upheld that we don’t believe we ever authorised or did anything to encourage customers to breach copyright,” he said. “We’ve won at the lower court, we’ve won at the Federal Court now in the appeal, but all this legal action hasn’t stopped one customer from downloading anywhere in Australia.”

“Same as we said last time, invite the rights holders back, let’s make the content available legally and legitimately so customers can get access to it, and let’s find a better way to be able to police those who don’t do the right thing.”

Malone went on to state that the overall problem of deciding to what extent ISPs can be held liable will have to be solved by the government.

AFACT boss Neil Gane was clearly disappointed at the decision.

“It cannot be right that, in effect, the ISP, who has the power to prevent copyright infringement online and admitted they were taking place, does not share the responsibility to stop them,” he said. “Copyright infringement now goes on unabated on the Internet.”

While Justice Emmett and Justice Nicholas dismissed the appeal, Gane said he was encouraged that Justice Jagot had sided with the movie industry.

“We take heart however, that Justice Jagot found for us and that Justice Emmett said that we were successful on many grounds.

“We will be taking our time now to examine the judgment in detail and consider all of our options.”

It is widely believed that the case will now proceed to Australia’s High Court.

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  • BCarefully Watching

    So happy! If this went the other way many countries would use this as an excuse to prosecute. I hope that other countries look at this and realize WHY the decision was made and use it as a model.

    • http://techlooser.com Sphinx Khan

      This is certainly a good day for us all! Two victories in one day! This such make it much harder for any one else trying to go down the same road again. :)

      one small step for us giant leap for iiNet :P

      http://techlooser.com

  • Shelikeschops

    good to hear……although hollywood has endless$$$$ and hates losing so im sure its not the last we hear of this case…….imagine if they used their money for good not evil and came up with some new kind of business model…..lol…as if

  • Anonymous

    If the appeal to the High Court is thrown out, expect AFACT to go to Senator Conroy, Hollywood to go to the US Trade Representative and Australia to be on the Section 301 Watch List within the next few years because we don’t suck Hollywood’s fat fucking cock.

    • Tman78

      Well they might try but it will be hard as AFACT didn’t even attempt to use existing laws to bring a case against piracy hence the ultimate reason why they failed.

      • Momo

        Maybe they plan to use that to lobby for “MOAR LAWS!” because the current ones aren’t strong enough.

        • Tman78

          They’ll try, but industry can still go and claim they haven’t even bothered to prosecute anyone under existing copyright law. The best part of the decision was an ISP doesn’t have to act on any such copyright claim as they don’t know the accuracy of the information or how it was obtained. That effectively questions and rightfully puts down the whole methodology of how MPAA/RIAA/IFPI obtain IP addresses and how they make their claim. This will have an impact globally in decision making in future cases.

        • Tman78

          They’ll try, but industry can still go and claim they haven’t even bothered to prosecute anyone under existing copyright law. The best part of the decision was an ISP doesn’t have to act on any such copyright claim as they don’t know the accuracy of the information or how it was obtained. That effectively questions and rightfully puts down the whole methodology of how MPAA/RIAA/IFPI obtain IP addresses and how they make their claim. This will have an impact globally in decision making in future cases.

  • -Silicon Valley Is Gonna Burn-

    ISP = DATA

    COMPUTER = FILE

    DIGITAL MEDIA PLAYER = CONTENT

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  • zem

    Eat my shorts AFACT cronies!

  • Donotreply

    Congrats iiNet =)

    ‘It is widely believed that the case will now proceed to Australia’s High Court.’

    I doubt AFACT (the Aus version of the MAFIAA for those who don’t know) will take it lying down so I guess it’s ‘watch this space’ for a follow up article by the appeals deadline.

    Prior to that is some events around March 8 to sort out the legal costs (AU$6.5 million or so being spent by iiNet so far).

  • PvdW

    You guys need to look beyond the initial reports:

    http://www.securecomputing.net.au/News/249230,iitrial-a-green-light-to-disconnect-pirates.aspx

    Certainly not all sunshine lollipops according to this report and legal analysis….

  • trustnoone

    Happy they won, I can’t believe iiNet is getting harrased like this, it’s not like they did anything wrong, and they can’t sit there and look at what sites you download since that goes against huge privacy!!!
    A good win, but I bet Hollywood will do anything ruthless to make a few bucks.

  • Nor

    Hahaha The Paladin Of Lies had this comment made just 13 hours ago :)

    Hahaha, that crazy ISP iiNet! ;) Hopefully, the verdict of this trial be a favorable on to the Creative Industry, and by extension, the Public. Internet Service Providers have for long the technical capabilities to enforce the copyright laws among their clients by blocking access and means to illegally sharing copyrighted material. Out of fear of losing their customers, however, they have neglected their responsibilities, and the end result is that the Public has to pay for their feet-dragging, so to speak ;).If ISP iiNet is indeed found liable, we can hope future trials against rogue ISPs will be that much easier — the we all can only win and rejoice from such outcome

    Put your mask down troll, cuz lies don’t cover sadness. Sob sob sob poor TPOL LOL!

    • The Paladin of Horse Manure

      Hahahahahhaha dumb troll Paladin

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PXX4S66KOUIGIKTTIMV3CBGO7Y Colin

    So, while I’m glad iiNet won the appeal to some extent, it still looks like AFACT will also get some mileage from it. I suspect that Judge Jagot is not very tech savvy as his comments claiming the AFACT letters to iiNet were reasonable, does not address the supporting evidence that they failed to provide.

    I’d guess that in future if AFACT provide ‘credible’ evidence of infringement, Australian ISPs will have to act on it. However, as we’ve seen elsewhere, ‘credible’ has to mean a lot more than an IP address and a torrent file name.

    Wait for the appeal to the Australian High Court.

  • Ahoy

    Yeah, this is NOT a big win for filesharing I’m afraid. Read PvdW’s link above.

    All this ruling amounts to is basically a set of guidelines for AFACT to win their High Court appeal. The judges all agreed that copyright had been infringed but basically were split over whether or not the notices AFACT were supplying were of sufficient quality for the ISP to be obliged to act on (two thought they were inadequate, one thought they were OK). All AFACT has to do is tighten up their notices a little, maybe make a concession on some sort of graduated process (e.g. warning, severe warning, disconnection) and maybe fund some of the costs of implementation to the ISP (and let’s face it, they have the money for that) and it’ll get through.

    Its nice to see an ISP standing up but iiNet have only won the battle – I don’t have much hope that they’ll win the war :(

    • PvdW

      Ahoy – my reading of it is they don’t even need to take this to High Court. As the case was dismissed, iiNet can not appeal any points unless AFACT appeals first.

      So the both parties wanted clarity – and this all but provides it. It essentially prescribes what an ISP must do on receipt of credible notices (and they outline what these are).

      AFACT may have lost one part of the case – the one that leads to the big payoff, but it looks like they may well have gotten exactly what they want.

      • DocGerbil100

        I’m not sure either of these interpretations are correct. I don’t have knowledge of how Australian law treats IP addresses or see a link to the full judgment – either of those might clarify matters somewhat.

        In the absence of that info, it seems to me unless and until there is a judgment or law passed that explicitly says an IP address alone is proof of liability on the part of the subscriber, there must remain a severe question-mark over what constitutes reasonable proof and the legally-correct response to an allegation of infringement.

        iiNet wanted indemnity from wrongfully-disconnected customers. They seem to have that now, so they may be inclined to simply comply with AFACT’s demands from now on. If they do, it will not be cost-free for AFACT.

        Without further legal rulings, I think it more likely that iiNet will limit the number of investigations, insist on a high standard of initial evidence and charge a steep fee for investigating subscribers.

        That would seem to be the most profitable way to deal with the issue and therefore, the one most likely to be followed by iiNet – if they are a commercial business accountable to shareholders, then that’s the approach they’re professionally somewhat obliged to take.

        None of those things are likely to be accepted by AFACT, so it will almost certainly go to the high court, as the article suggested.

        • Ahoy

          I agree, a link to the full judgement would clear a lot of stuff up.

          I just don’t think it’s sensible for us all to be high fiving over this – from what’s been written already some people seem to think this is like some massive overturn against Ze Antipirates and it’s just not wise to encourage that kind of view (IMHO)

        • Anonymous

          Exactly. And meanwhile all Australians encrypt their downloads and no harm was done.

  • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

    WIN!!!!

    Not only a WIN for the ISP but for ISP’s everywhere in the World. Bring on the next appeal you MAFIAA fucktards – you’re greed and stupidity are now time-limited.

    Major WIN = woooohooooooooooooo….

  • Dixydixdixdix

    Why didn’t they go after Telstra or Optus? They’re much bigger companies with deeper pockets than IINET.

    • Ahoy

      Strategy my friend – bigger companies with deeper pockets probably have better lawyers. I imagine more than anything else AFACT are after a precedent here and once/if they get it, they’ve got a much bigger stick to go after the big guns with

    • Ninja

      Does U$ vs WikiLeaks ring a bell? The strong will try to suffocate the weak to prove in the end that they are right by killing the truth and turning the lies into truths.

    • euphmsm

      My understanding is that they went after iiNet because iiNet refused to pass on cease and desist notices to customers who were accused of filesharing, and was I think the only major ISP here to have taken that position. I might be wrong on that, I do remember reading it somewhere though. As you can imagine, saying no to AFACT would be perceived as a declaration of war – you can’t have people thinking you can stand up to the copyright police. Ahoy is also right in that they are a smaller company and hence easier to win a war of attrition against, and as soon as you win one case you’ve set a good precedent with which you can go after larger targets with a better chance of success. I haven’t read the full ruling, but they’ve at least been in part unsuccessful.

      • Duideka

        Malone explained why iiNet was targetted in a interview, these are more or less his exact words;

        —–
        iiNet was targeted as we are big enough to matter, but small enough to have smaller legal expenditure, AFACT originally targeted 4 ISP’s and their responses were;

        Optus: As expected, Optus lawyers prepared a 500 page legal document and sent it back.
        Exetel: As expected, Exetel fell in line and cooperated.
        Internode: As expected, Internode ignored the letter and hoped AFACT would leave them alone.
        iiNet: Well, we sent back a letter which essentially said ‘GO FUCK YOURSELVES’ – so yeah, that might have had something to do with it.

        • Violated

          Well that did shorten down 500 pages to 1 line.

          Unfortunately it also said we had no lawyers telling us the usual of “better not”

          Now these judges tell AFACT to Go fuck themselves in about 250 points.

          The only question is when AFACT will get the message?

  • Gargamel

    Its good to see Australia’s Court system actually has enough balls to think for itself and not fold like a cheap card table to the US Nazi influences like so many other countries have.

    Kudos Australia.

  • Anon

    “it cannot be right” that the movie industry can remake classic move but butcher them in the process; then charge up current prices to watch theses POS.

    lmao “it cannot be right”, who do afact think they are, the law makers?! We won this time, you lost, now feck off!

  • Rabbit80

    iiNet are still losers in this unfortunately – the legal bills will be costing them a fortune. It is sad that AFACT can still drag this out further and cause more financial injury to iiNet despite 2 court rulings against them.

    • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

      Costs are very often awarded against the losing party or parties, and given that nearly 40 major MAFIAA orgs were LOSERS then their cut of the losses would be pretty low.

      They’re clearly trying to bully the small ISP’s in the hope of fooling a senior Court to decide fully in their favour, but 2 those 3 Aussie judges saw through their crap and slapped them down.

      Woooooooo-effin-Hooooooooooooooooooo…..

    • Lordfury007

      Yeah the original court costs of iiNet were approximately $AU 5 Million.

      AFACT was ordered to pay these costs on behalf of iiNet when they won the original case, however it was appealed. I Believe with the appeal being lost, they have to pay the original 5 Million plus whatever other additional costs have been incurred by them appealing the decision.

      • Rabbit80

        Except that iiNet most likely won’t see a penny until the final appeal option has been exhausted. I wouldn’t be surprised if AFACT drag their heels even after that point.

        • van dam

          is this not where public liability insurance covers the defense of your business? the costs are a matter for the insurers not iiNet

        • DocGerbil100

          I’m not going back to check which paragraph the information appears in (oh, ye gods, no, never again!), but it does suggest that both parties will be returning to court at some point, to sort out who has to pay what by way of costs. Given that AFACT has now lost twice, I think I would not naturally assume that AFACT would be favoured by that proceeding.

  • DocGerbil100

    I think that two of the most important things to come from this ruling is the fact that AFACT (and other comparable organisations) are now legally required to: (1) demonstrate a reasonable evidential basis in support of their claims up front; and (2) pay ISPs for the cost of investigating and verifying infringement claims.

    This means they can’t just throw millions of IP addresses at an ISP and expect to be taken seriously. They need to submit evidence up front which may be directly challenged by the ISPs on quality grounds – and we already know how low that quality is. :D

    They also have to pay for every ISP investigation, possibly up front as well, at a price that will presumably be set by the ISP. I very much doubt that this will be cheap, given how much hassle they’ve already caused the ISPs. I think it’s also likely that ISPs will want to set an upper limit on how many investigations are allowed simultaneously.

    All of these factors together should reduce the number of investigations that can be carried out at any given time by a very significant amount indeed. Unless AFACT can successfully challenge the rulings, it may be the case that the consequences of this verdict effectively leaves AFACT’s anti-piracy effort completely spayed.

    Either way, for now, we have a definite win. Woo and indeed, hoo. :D

    • Ahoy

      Dude… no.

      It doesn’t leave AFACT legally obliged to cover the cost of any investigation. It doesn’t leave AFACT legally obliged to do anything at all. It’s merely a ruling that at present, the format of notices provided by AFACT isn’t detailed enough to oblige iiNet to close off their subscribers from the net – and remember, even THAT wasn’t a unanimous decision.

      I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but there shouldn’t be a parade to rain on in this instance and it’s irresponsible to let people think that there is. This needs to be thought of as a teacher checking AFACT’s homework and giving them corrections, not a big victory for filesharing.

      As PvdW states above, they’ve lost out on the big payout maybe, but they’ve all but won on every other front.

      • DocGerbil100
        • Ahoy

          Isn’t it just!!

          OK, it could well be a positive thing for ISPs given that the judgement seemed to hinge on the fact that the Justice didn’t deem iiNet to be providing the means to infringe. The fact that they have fulfilled the provisions for Safe Harbor probably helped them a lot here (although how they could be providing training on copyright infringement to their staff and then claim not to understand what AFACT had given them escapes me… that’s so ballsy on iiNet’s behalf!!).

          But on the other hand, he seemed to me to be implicitly labelling Bittorrent as being just that (means to infringe) – so that could be where the AFACT sights are being trained on next and on the basis of this judgement, they might have more luck,..

        • Violated

          There is nothing in this ruling that states that BT is unlawful. Indeed they said beyond the ISP connection the user has to make many steps before they can infringe.

          This includes visiting a BT client site and downloading and installing the program, visiting a torrent site, finding what they want and then downloading the infringing movie. They ruled that iiNet are not guilty of assisting copyright infringement when they do not assist the user with any of the acts like supplying the BT client.

          Yes they did mention BT much but this was just their example of infringement.

          One interesting section I read said that someone who clicks a website link is not guilty of copyright infringement when they dont know what they will recieve.

        • Ahoy

          I didn’t say they labelled BT as unlawful, just that in a comparison regarding the ‘means’ to infringe it was used as an example as something that potentially IS providing the means to infringe, whereas an ISP was not.

          There’s nothing concrete in the judgement against BT, but the way I read it was that if someone were to go after say, Bittorrent Inc as providing the means to infringe they might have more success than again an ISP. Just sayin’.

        • PvdW

          @Ahoy: I read differently. I saw it that the original assertion that J. Cowdroy made was incorrect that BT was the “means” to infringe.

          I forget the exact reference, but J. Emmett said the Internet was a necessary precondition which the respondent had control over, therefore it was entirely reasonable for them to act.

          The whole BT is the infringer appears to be a moot point on appeal and the original discussion on that discarded. I think this point is moot.

  • DocGerbil100

    I think that two of the most important things to come from this ruling is the fact that AFACT (and other comparable organisations) are now legally required to: (1) demonstrate a reasonable evidential basis in support of their claims up front; and (2) pay ISPs for the cost of investigating and verifying infringement claims.

    This means they can’t just throw millions of IP addresses at an ISP and expect to be taken seriously. They need to submit evidence up front which may be directly challenged by the ISPs on quality grounds – and we already know how low that quality is. :D

    They also have to pay for every ISP investigation, possibly up front as well, at a price that will presumably be set by the ISP. I very much doubt that this will be cheap, given how much hassle they’ve already caused the ISPs. I think it’s also likely that ISPs will want to set an upper limit on how many investigations are allowed simultaneously.

    All of these factors together should reduce the number of investigations that can be carried out at any given time by a very significant amount indeed. Unless AFACT can successfully challenge the rulings, it may be the case that the consequences of this verdict effectively leaves AFACT’s anti-piracy effort completely spayed.

    Either way, for now, we have a definite win. Woo and indeed, hoo. :D

  • Anon

    Good news.

    Thx, TF keeps P2P front-line news updates really fresh! This kind of battle is exhaustive for small operators…

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  • LOL

    OMFG, its so not fair that we cannot make laws and set precedents that make people pay us money for no reason whatsoever, WE WANT FREE MONEY!

  • TC

    Sorry About Your Damn Luck

  • Anonymous

    Finally! One for the good guys! Its about time.

    http://www.privacy-resources.at.tc

    • DocGerbil100

      I wish someone would DDoS this fuckwit.

  • Ninja

    And they can still appeal. The current legal system seems th be structured to favor the stronger (richer), no?

    Next: AFACT (MAFIAA) lobbies in the Aussie Govt to have laws passed that either 1- obliges the ISPs to be the police of their own customers and dealing with all costs in the process AND/OR 2- give MAFIAA full police powers and rights to do whatever they want, BREIN style.

    Let us see what happens in the high court and in the Government. So far it’s win but the war is still undefined.

  • DocGerbil100

    … oooog… my brain hurts. ~_~

    I have finished reading the judgment in full. By Elvis’s rancid blue nipples, now that’s reeeeaaaally tl;dr. Will find some words just as soon as I’ve bought and taken some ibuprofen for my information-headache.

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  • Violated

    I dont see that the file sharers in Australia have much to worry about.

    iiNet being a carrier with safe harbour is protected from such claims.

    However it is part of safe harbour that they must have a policy in place to restrict or disconnect persistent infringers. They already do when it is part of their contract with the subscriber and they take action if needed.

    The court found that AFACT’s evidence of infringement was not even worthy of consideration and they would need much better evidence in the future to make a valid claim. That would not be easy for them what with privacy laws.

    AFACT would have to fund iiNet’s own investigation proving this claim of copyright infringement is true. They also have to provide compensation should a user be wrongly disconnected.

    So nothing much to worry about here when it is all up to AFACT to build a strong case and where IP proof alone is not enough.

  • NerfHerder

    Australians are smart. They turn heads to the studios. Fight for your rights…
    toss them mpaa at the roos and see who wins the fights.

  • J.

    Personally, I find the MPAA/RIAA’s demand that ISPs should be held accountable for their users violating copyright regulations is absurd.

    For example…. Where are the complaints that phone companies need to do more to prevent identity theft? At one of her senior meetings, my grandmother was informed that con-men will often call seniors posing as various agencies and try to get the seniors to hand over their social security number, etc so that the con-man can steal their identity. Identity theft causes over $56 BILLION in damages annually (from a quick Google search), and can take years to get straightened out – and this is just from what is discovered & reported…. I don’t know the specific damages pirating movies has caused the industry, but I would assume that ID theft is a much larger crime than movie piracy, and that it affects more people…. Especially when I see reports on here that state stuff like “more albums were sold in 2010 than any other year” or that “the box office broke a 30 Billion Box Office Record in 2010″…

    So shouldn’t the phone companies be required to prevent their customers from committing crimes using their network? Set up the system to automatically throttle the calling speeds of any phone number that calls seniors frequently & stays connected for long periods of time… And if they get caught calling a nursing home more than 5 times, they should be prohibited from using a phone again….

    OK, granted in this example, there really isn’t any way for the phone company to really know that the person calling is trying to steal my identity… As far as I know, one phone call looks like any other call to their systems. So short of having someone listen into every call to make sure no crimes are being committed…. But that would get shot down due to privacy concerns.

    With ISPs on the other hand, they’re more able to differentiate data. They can “listen in” a little easier. They don’t have to monitor every word that is said, but they know that if data is being sent over port 80, its ‘harmless’ web browsing… But if its on port 6881 its torrent data…. But A.) I could see that being argued as privacy issues, and B.) Just because I’m using a torrent network does NOT mean I’m pirating movies… I could be downloading a copy of Ubuntu, I could be getting a copy of Pioneer One’s newest episode…. I could even be using Spotify (it uses peer-to-peer to assist in streaming songs).

    And why is it that the MPAA/RIAA think the ISPs have nothing better to do than sit around and monitor their customer’s usage – doing the MPAA/RIAA’s job for them… Time Warner already stated that they’re too over worked to do more than 28 IP look-ups a month…. So the MPAA/RIAA wants to force them to strain their resources even more by actively monitoring the usage logs so the MPAA/RIAA doesn’t lose more money….

    • PvdW

      @J. You may find it absurd – but the judges (unanimously) appear to have found that the ISPs are liable for their customers behaviour if they do nothing AND the rights holders send notices which are properly explained and contained verifiable information.

      Just in this instance, 2 judges found that iiNet weren’t properly informed in the first instance – however, going forward, its not all clear sailing.

      • Anonymous

        As I said above it is part of safe harbour protection to have a policy in place to deal with persistent offenders. Naturally AFACT claim they are not doing it making iiNet liable to damages but the court ruled that AFACT’s proof of infringement is simply not good enough so iiNet was right to not handle them.

        The technical proof of infringement is a tricky one. The copyright side simply want to place blame on the subscriber for any and every infringement done on his connection. Most other people point out that the IP address is only the gateway address and even the subscriber could be clueless what device on his local network is causing the infringement.

        Here is a good one when the copyright side is going to love IPv6. This change by assigning every single device its own IP address removes the need for an Internet gateway and a local router. So in the future they can much better ID the exact computer that causes the infringement.

        Of course there would be ways around this problem but a big issue for many file sharers for sure.

        • PvdW

          Hey – the judges found it didn’t matter on the account who infringed. The account holder was the one who takes the responsibility for ALL activity on the account

        • PvdW

          Hey – the judges found it didn’t matter on the account who infringed. The account holder was the one who takes the responsibility for ALL activity on the account

  • J.

    Personally, I find the MPAA/RIAA’s demand that ISPs should be held accountable for their users violating copyright regulations is absurd.

    For example…. Where are the complaints that phone companies need to do more to prevent identity theft? At one of her senior meetings, my grandmother was informed that con-men will often call seniors posing as various agencies and try to get the seniors to hand over their social security number, etc so that the con-man can steal their identity. Identity theft causes over $56 BILLION in damages annually (from a quick Google search), and can take years to get straightened out – and this is just from what is discovered & reported…. I don’t know the specific damages pirating movies has caused the industry, but I would assume that ID theft is a much larger crime than movie piracy, and that it affects more people…. Especially when I see reports on here that state stuff like “more albums were sold in 2010 than any other year” or that “the box office broke a 30 Billion Box Office Record in 2010″…

    So shouldn’t the phone companies be required to prevent their customers from committing crimes using their network? Set up the system to automatically throttle the calling speeds of any phone number that calls seniors frequently & stays connected for long periods of time… And if they get caught calling a nursing home more than 5 times, they should be prohibited from using a phone again….

    OK, granted in this example, there really isn’t any way for the phone company to really know that the person calling is trying to steal my identity… As far as I know, one phone call looks like any other call to their systems. So short of having someone listen into every call to make sure no crimes are being committed…. But that would get shot down due to privacy concerns.

    With ISPs on the other hand, they’re more able to differentiate data. They can “listen in” a little easier. They don’t have to monitor every word that is said, but they know that if data is being sent over port 80, its ‘harmless’ web browsing… But if its on port 6881 its torrent data…. But A.) I could see that being argued as privacy issues, and B.) Just because I’m using a torrent network does NOT mean I’m pirating movies… I could be downloading a copy of Ubuntu, I could be getting a copy of Pioneer One’s newest episode…. I could even be using Spotify (it uses peer-to-peer to assist in streaming songs).

    And why is it that the MPAA/RIAA think the ISPs have nothing better to do than sit around and monitor their customer’s usage – doing the MPAA/RIAA’s job for them… Time Warner already stated that they’re too over worked to do more than 28 IP look-ups a month…. So the MPAA/RIAA wants to force them to strain their resources even more by actively monitoring the usage logs so the MPAA/RIAA doesn’t lose more money….

  • van dam

    it is massive win that AFACT must pay the cost of the ISP investigation because at the heart of the matter there is no positive cashflow in the game of chasing nonprofit-petty-filesharers. those who can buy do buy and those who can’t don’t. the content on the filesharing networks has almost zero commercial value in terms of direct revenue, a download does not represent a lost sale. AFACT are bottom feeders in a media industry that has already moved on and if they have the burden of cost then their activity becomes uneconomic in the long term. the significance of why this is a win is that there is only cost in chasing filesharers

    closer inspection shows the AFACT argument is nothing more than modus ponens (argument by affirmation) because the facts of the infringement are unknown without a proper investigation. simply stating there is means for infringement does not mean infringement takes place and the court agrees. the issue of whether an IP identifies an individual has not gone away. similarly, possession of a bittorrent client does not mean infringement. the cost of providing proof of infringement by an individual is not consummate with any percieved quantity of damages by infringing activity. chasing filesharers is a losing game all round

    • PvdW

      @van dam.

      RE: AFACT paying costs. One judge made the comment that AFACT should pay *reasonable costs*. One judge said iiNet should absorb the costs. The other made no comment. So it is 1-1 in that regards, and on that, the cost issue is fair from certain who must pay for implementing a scheme.

    • PvdW

      @van dam.

      RE: AFACT paying costs. One judge made the comment that AFACT should pay *reasonable costs*. One judge said iiNet should absorb the costs. The other made no comment. So it is 1-1 in that regards, and on that, the cost issue is fair from certain who must pay for implementing a scheme.

      • DocGerbil100

        I don’t remember that second judge’s comment and I can’t be arsed to read through the thing again to find it, but my reading of the particular issue is that – according to an apparently uncontested point made by iiNet – it is normal practise for police and security agencies to reimburse ISPs for investigative work. I’m not clear on whether there’s an official industry policy regarding crapflooding, but I think ISPs would negotiate and work with police, etc, to minimise excessive numbers.

        If that’s correct, then a case centred on the issue will quickly show that it is so – and it seems to me highly unlikely that any court will go against those practises and find in favour of AFACT. Apart from anything else, I think they would want very compelling reasons to overturn industry standards and contradict other legal authorities that have already accepted this as reasonable – especially if that change is on behalf of a commercial organisation like AFACT: the “natural” onus is upon AFACT to pay, as they are the beneficiaries of the requested service.

        Any other decision would logically only lead to an impossible quantity of spurious complaints made by AFACT and other parties who have a vested interest in harming the internet – all the MAFIAA would have to do is get each of it’s corporate members to do separate searches for every infringement they can find, submit all the complaints in the suggested way and then sue iiNet yet again, for not being able to simultaneously investigate millions of complaints in a timely fashion.

        The judges are working to the obligations of Australian law, but they don’t seem to me to be lacking in common sense. If AFACT tries to abuse whatever system comes out of all this, I think they’ll almost certainly lose. :)

        • PvdW

          Doc,

          Justic Jagot said it was not unreasonable or overly burdensome for iiNet to implement a strategy of warning customers as they already mechanisms in place for other account issues (non-payment fees, spam, etc).

          That said, Emmett says rights holders pay “reasonable costs”. Jagot said ISP should pay, and Nicholas makes no comment.

          1-1, and hardly clear who will foot the bill for such a system going forward.

  • DocGerbil100

    I wish I hadn’t read that! Painkillers and sleep have helped me get my head together. My take on this is tl;dr – although not nearly as much as the judgment – so I’ll just put the short version.

    In the original case, AFACT (essentially the Aussie branch of the MPAA) wanted ISP iiNet to be held financially responsible for the actions of it’s users. They assumed that iiNet was pro-piracy and would lose badly. They got access to iiNet’s emails to help them sue. It wasn’t nearly as incriminating as they’d hoped and the judge wasn’t an idiot – and so they lost badly.

    In this appeal, AFACT appears to have asked for all (or the most important parts) of the original verdict to be nuked. All they actually really got was a stern warning from the judges to iiNet that ISPs are expected to put in place proper systems designed to deal with pirates whenever they’re notified of infringements. ISPs that don’t comply will get the stick.

    The text does not say whether IP addresses are or are not regarded as good evidence in court. It does say that they are good-enough evidence for the ISP to begin an investigation into the activities of an alleged infringer – providing the means by which the IP address is gathered is also given to them in great detail.

    AFACT are required to reimburse ISPs for the costs of investigating alleged offences – this is apparently the norm for law-enforcement and security-service requests in Australia and so goes uncontested by AFACT. AFACT has to pay and is fully liable if an allegation is faulty.

    It’s not clear if there’s an upper limit to the number of investigation-requests AFACT can make, but it seems highly doubtful they can crapflood companies with thousands of requests a week. I get no sense that the judges have any particular liking for AFACT – I doubt they’ll get an easy ride in court if they try to take liberties. Judge Jagot was iiNet’s harshest critic and that seems to me mostly because iiNet personnel took the piss out of AFACT.

    The operational cost of chucking pirates of the ‘net vastly exceeds any conceivable recompense. The usual cheap, lazy copyright-troll business model that AFACT wants to use to make a profit is – at this moment in time – effectively economically-unviable in Australia.

    I believe we have something of a win. It’s qualified and very much pending the result of further court action, but still, cautiously, a woo-hoo. :)

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  • van dam

    nicely said. the time honoured MAFIAA strategy of having the public purse fund their business models is revealed in glorious detail (and not only in Australia)

    if bittorrent is a destructive technology highlighting legal grey areas it is then our responsibility as a society to address the issues with balance which does not prejudice the development of society. the AFACT strategem is to effectively burden society with a tax on development, a fundamentally uneconomic strategy which one could even call sociopathic

    it is important to remember that copyright (to name but one argument) was originally designed to protect the creative and not the distributor. copyright was later amended to create a monopoly for the distributor and today it is all about the extension of that singular wrong. the MAFIAA are not the creatives they are the bottom feeding faceless men in suits who seek to syphon the value of the creative industries into their own bank accounts in the same manner the banking communities have syphoned the value of our societies into their own pockets leaving us to face austerity which means the closure of schools, hospitals and government services for the needy

    so it is not all bad from the recent financial disaster, society in general is waking up to the game of those that covet what belongs to others and without morals with exploit their power to take what is rightfully ours

  • Whatever

    My analysis of this is that the justice system might be turning slowly and the highest court will be completely turned.

    @ ‘ AFACT boss Neil Gane was clearly disappointed at the decision.
    “It cannot be right that, in effect, the ISP, who has the power to prevent copyright infringement online and admitted they were taking place, does not share the responsibility to stop them,” he said. ‘

    About the responsibility of being able to prevent something happening to someone else a lawyer (on some other internet matter) used an example something like this: You see someone carrying too many plates. You can prevent the person from falling down and breaking the plates by helping out. But even though it isn’t very nice not to help, there is no law that you must prevent it.

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