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ISP Walks Out of Piracy Talks: “We’re Not The Internet Police”

A leading Australian Internet service provider has pulled out of negotiations to create a warning notice scheme aimed at reducing online piracy. iiNet, the ISP that was sued by Hollywood after refusing to help chase down alleged infringers, said that it can’t make any progress with righthsolders if they don’t make their content freely available at a reasonable price. The ISP adds that holding extra data on customers’ habits is inappropriate and not their responsibility.

In many countries around the world the entertainment industries are attempting to engage Internet service providers in their battle against online piracy.

The music and movie industries have persuaded some to begin sending warning notifications to subscribers which advise them that their infringing activities have been monitored. In addition to a few less high-profile projects, large scale schemes are underway in France, New Zealand and a similar operation is about to launch in the United States.

In other countries negotiations have been less fruitful. Australia became a notable failure after discussions on infringement developed into parallel legal action against an ISP. The Hollywood-affiliated video industry there thought it could convince a court to hold the ISP iiNet responsible for the activities of alleged infringers. It couldn’t.

Despite the legal action, negotiations between rightsholders and ISPs, pushed along by the Attorney General’s Department, have continued in the hope that an agreement can still be reached. But for iiNet, it’s the end of the road.

Chief Regulatory Officer at iiNet Steve Dalby said his company has pulled out of the talks and lays the blame firmly at the feet of the entertainment companies.

“The conversation has failed to move on. The rights holders are still insisting ISP’s should perform work on their behalf instead of addressing what we have always said is the root cause of the infringements – the limited accessibility to desirable content and the discriminatory and high cost of content in Australia. Infringements are a symptom – access is the problem,” he said.

Dalby is clear – the industry’s problems are being driven by the mechanics of their own business model. If piracy is to be reduced then work has to be done to bring timely and reasonably-priced content to online consumers. iiNet, he says, is still happy to work with the industry to make that happen.

“iiNet has repeatedly and publicly called on the studios and content owners to enter into commercial discussions for the digital distribution of their desirable content.

“The law as it stands has given clarity; this whole idea that people will wait 12-18 months; consumers are just not buying it. You’ve got to address what is now a broken model from last century,” he said, quoting from iiNet’s court battle with the studios.

But while the lack of timely and reasonably-priced content is a serious flaw, that is only part of the problem.

Any notice scheme requires ISPs to store data which ties their customers to alleged infringements which of course has privacy implications. Over in the United States there have been concerns that the information gathered as part of “six strikes” could be used for more than just warnings. Sure enough, last week it was revealed that the data voluntarily retained by ISPs could end up being used to file lawsuits against customers.

According to Dalby, this will not happen at iiNet.

“iiNet won’t support any scheme that forces ISPs to retain data in order to allow for the tracking of customer behaviour and the status of any alleged infringements against them. Collecting and retaining additional customer data at this level is inappropriate, expensive and most importantly, not our responsibility,” Dalby says.

And this – the issue of responsibility – rounds off iiNet’s comprehensive rejection and exit from the talks.

“It’s not iiNet’s job to play online police. The High Court spoke loud and clear in their verdict when they ruled categorically that ISPs have no obligation to protect the rights of third parties, and we’re not prepared to harass our customers when the industry has no clear obligation to do so,” Dalby states.

It will be a serious concern, particularly to the Hollywood studios, that not only has it proven impossible to force iiNet to comply through the courts, but that negotiation on the issue of piracy has failed too. It is now up to rightsholders to make the next move.

“Hollywood, you know where we are. It’s time to change the tune,” Dalby concludes.

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  • jonlee

    if they start a isp in england ill sign up immediatly

    • Steve

      Me too

      • Yourname

        In reply to jon7272 . about choosing telstra. The most expensive and by far the worst Telco in Australia. If you enjoy telstra You a crazy man. Seriously. Have a look, u will notice your paying almost 200 pc more then every other ips/telco/mobile ect for the same thing. Wake up and smell the grass, Telstra Is the “WORST” All u got to do is check the stock price to confirm this, Or talk to Any ex telstra employee to know how bad they are

        • thEGA

          Telstra are the FASTEST in the country. They also have good customer service. Forget about their share price etc which “Yourname” seems to think is a factor. As far as speed and reliability goes pre NBN Telstra are it. IInet and co are not an option for people who need serious bandwidth and uptime. It’s ok for home users who don’t mind connecting via ADSL but for the rest of us who need always on internet Telstra is the one to use.

    • jon7272

      sounds good until you realise they reduce your internet speed with bittorrent i left and went to telstra sorry hellstra but at least i have relative speed increase

      • Dvaid

        No they don’t

        • tpop

          2nd that. They don’t.

        • Psy

          3rd that.

        • jon7272

          i dropped 200kbps after going from optus to inett why is that and then climbed again when i chose telstra that was my experience anyway must be just me then

        • Sachin Doshi

          It might have been a problem with the modem iiNet gave you. When we switched to comcast here in the states, the modem we bought was getting too much upstream noise and had to get an attenuator to keep our connection fast and consistent

        • http://www.facebook.com/adamdjt Adam Daniel John Thompson

          My line gets noise, and when I had a cheaper modem, i kept getting disconnected, and with a better modem I have had no problems.

        • ikt123

          They probably swapped you onto your second pair which is worse and then back again. Unless your dslam is congested and you can get onto another ISP’s uncongested DSLAM, speed is 99% of the time determined by the quality of your line and the distance from the exchange.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Easy to verify, really. Perform a speedtest which gives you optimum speeds.

        Then download ubuntu, say, or some other FOSS article with thousands of seeds. Check the difference between max speeds.

      • Ballistic

        they do not throttle torrent use, never had an issue in 7 years with iinet and they have the best pricing at my house

      • Computer Biz0125

        thEGA

        Telstra are hopeless, their fiber is slow by standard and their cable is shit 20 Mb for $80 a month…..lol.

        I am with TransACT which is now owned by iiNET and I have 150GB (isn’t the biggest) but at the speed of 60Mbps. If you know math that is about 7 MBps..telsta cant compete.
        Unless they have had a major change of not ripping people off

        • anon

          Telstra are hopeless, their fiber is slow by standard and their cable is shit 20 Mb for $80 a month…..lol.

          i have $79.90/month for 80GB on 100Mb cable with telstra bigpond…

    • Neil

      That goes for me in New Zealand too…

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004459093599 Varghese Paul

      Visit : http://freakhacks.blogspot.in/ for best hacking tips n tricks!!

  • Sabel44

    This is the only ISP in the world that is standing up to these bullies.

    • BuddhaFacePalmed

      Amen

    • UniversalSoldier

      The only ISP that cares for its customers. Request everyone in Australia to switch to iiNet.

      • http://twitter.com/AshleySophia2 AshleySophia

        just as Gary answered I’m blown away that a mother able to get paid $6480 in a few weeks on the network.

      • http://twitter.com/AshleySophia2 AshleySophia

        …..goo.gl/TEH52 (Click on Home)

      • Psy

        I am a proud iiNet member, have been for about 5 years, and will continue because they are standing up to the big guys.

        • aussie and prode

          15 years started with dial up :)
          go iinet

        • Selistix

          13 years going strong they aren’t the cheapest but they do what they say provide a service

      • yello

        in all fairness, tpg is doing a good job as well.
        but always good to see one take a stand, others may continue to balls up

        • Brandon Cannon

          How so? TPG comply with the notices which have no legal standing… They aren’t doing anything.

        • John

          What notices?TPG only complies court orders; same as every other ISP.

        • aussie

          actually tpg send the basic Letter, With No information on the affending meterial, time ect. Even They have admitted that they do not count how many you recive.

        • http://www.facebook.com/adamdjt Adam Daniel John Thompson

          When I was with TPG, if I downloaded legal files on a torrent that also had illegal files that I didn’t download, I got a warning. When I responded that I had no interest in the files (Harry Potter ebooks in an otherwise copyright free list of books), I had zero response. of course, TPG still gave me better service than iiNet, or maybe that was because iiNet didn’t like their customers they got from AAPT who hadn’t yet switched to a new ridiculously expensive iiNet plan.

        • http://twitter.com/VictoriaEva3 VictoriaEva

          like Ray answered I’m alarmed that people can get paid $4326 in 1 month on the network.

        • http://twitter.com/VictoriaEva3 VictoriaEva

          …..goo.gl/5mocq (Click on Home)

      • Zei

        Already am!

      • Dandere

        We will definitely be moving from Exetel to iiNet primarily for this reason when the fibre rollout is completed in our area.

        • Lord of the Files

          Fiber is slowly being rolled out where I live. Been using ADSL for over a decade and while the download speed is decent, upload speed is practically non-existent. The boost to both with fiber is going to be massively epic based on the press material my ISP released. We’re all very exited about it.

          This brings up a question though regarding ISP’s tracking their users. I would assume with more speed comes a (much) greater level of data being transfered. It can’t possibly be feasible for an ISP to keep track of it all?

          A big part of the problem I see with tracking is that an ISP would have to do it 24/7 for every single user account. It’s akin to the government bugging every single telephone and recording everything being said on all of them. Talk about one heck of a privacy concern. I don’t think the majority of citizens, whether a so called pirate or not, would take too kindly to having everything they do online watched and scrutinized by some corporate entity, all of which being of no benefit to society whatsoever. The costs of all that tracking would have to be passed on to the customers too, so really it would be detrimental to society. There has to be a better way.

          And who is going to go through all that gathered information anyways, which will be considerable in quantity to say the least. And how would they figure out what is copyrighted and what isn’t? A filename? That can be anything and isn’t a good indicator at all. Neither is an IP address as has been proven time and again. And what will the entertainment industry do with the information if given it? Will they keep their word whatever excuse it is they try to use? Doubtful from what we’ve seen of their actions to date. So many questions, so few answers.

          The truly biggest problem I see in all of this, besides what I’ve mentioned above, are the outrageous claims the copyright industry makes about their profits. As we all know, what they say doesn’t line up at all with what is on official record. They say their business is being gutted, yet all evidence points to the contrary. They are doing better than ever in fact. I believe this is why they don’t have any interest in updating their business model, so that both they and their customers, which all file sharers are essentially, win. Because their business is still very profitable, they lack the motivation needed to being about positive change. If they really were losing money hand over fist as they like to claim, they would be highly motivated to adapt to the 21st century just so they can stay afloat and not be out of a job. I honestly think the lawsuits we keep seeing are motivated more by ego than any worry about money, which they are still rolling in.

        • http://www.facebook.com/rui.ribeiro Rui F Ribeiro

          In all fairness, you dont need to save as the transactions as “phone conversations”. Think of it, they “just” need in the IP world to have a complete list of your, as you say it “phone calls” (the IPs), and then, the services you requested (TCP ports you talked). Cisco technology has had this technology for years, however it is expensive, and requires storage capacity over time (as for legal reasons, you could end up having to store this for up to two years). I used to have just a couple of days of this data has we sold contracts with data caps, and this data was used just for the sole purpose of clarifying bill disputes. However I do agree, the ISPs are not the Internet police, neither do they have to work for free, nor it their business to do the media cartel´s dirty work.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          What you describe is actually standard in EU – to the shame of europe, the “Data Retention Directive” already mandates the saving of all traffic data.

          Which of course means that darknets are now very popular in the tech-savvy parts of europe.

          Even if the ISP’s were to agree on being “internet police” the truth is that they can’t.

        • Lord of the Files

          @ Rui F Ribeiro: What good does having just the IP address and port do? Unless I misunderstood. Wouldn’t that be like having the phone numbers of the originating and receiving parties, but not the content of their conversation? Without the content, there is no proof of wrong doing. Even if you were seen connected to a bittorrent swarm, that isn’t proof of wrong doing no matter what the entertainment industry thinks. Good post though, thanks for replying.

      • asd

        or internode, which was bought by iinet a few months ago

        • aussie

          O.O I did not know this. Very nice

      • Zan

        With them for around 4 years now… I must add a respect fist bump to Optus though for lending iiNet some lawyers when they were being sued previously.

      • http://www.facebook.com/adamdjt Adam Daniel John Thompson

        iiNet, double the price and half the service.

    • Who

      no they are not the only isp that’s making a stand.

      • Canuck

        TekSavvy in Canada, for example.

        • wanderlust2012

          They are in court today fighting against having to give personal information of their customers to Voltage Pictures, Teksavvy refused to give it without a court order. Pretty awesome.

        • Jlober

          Not really…any ISP asks for a court order. teksavvy had said they are not fighting the motion at all on behalf of their customers.

        • chronoss

          that was so that they could warn the users
          which has the effect of allowing proper legal defences and people to intervene in the hearing….

          like the aspect voltage wants this info for a commerical lawsuit when they cant prove it isnt NON commercial…

      • http://sportsbooksforbabies.com/ Ken Ashe

        good to know.

    • TMc51

      Not quite. Many are trying to make a stand, but the problem is it’s only the smaller ones in most places.

    • Ricardo

      That’s because the law at Australia is on their side. It’s not what we see at UK, USA and others. If iiNet was at UK, they would have failled.
      I hope things like that does not land here in Brazil.

      • tpop

        It’s on their side because they stood up to four years of legal battles all the way up to the high court to set a precedent. I would guess that most countries’ legal systems would sympathise with ISPs if properly tested.

      • Jason Page

        I can’t stand it when people that have no fucking idea make comments like this. EXACTLY the same thing occurred with BT here in the UK, the court ruled that they weren’t responsible too.

        Stop making hyperbolic and absolutely false bullshit up.

    • http://twitter.com/bob_george33 Bob_George33
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=48904447 Chris Orbz

      TekSavvy in Toronto has also been notifying customers that they’re being approached with requests for personal information and are refusing to disclose anything without a court order

    • iam8up

      No it isn’t. Not by far.

    • http://www.facebook.com/mikasjoman Mika Sjöman

      well pirateisp in sweden would probably use even harsher language ;)

    • arahman21

      Teksavvy too. They are no more pleased than iiNet at being asked to give up customer data.

      • Anon

        It’s sad that Teksavvy aren’t a major ISP here in Canaduh. They piggy-back off of the lines that Canadian Taxpayers paid for, but were then sold to Telus, Shaw, and Rogers.

        • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

          Didn’t Shaw pay for their own infrastructure? They don’t use the twisted copper pairs, I think they built the coax network out themselves.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001420458920 Josh Korth

      I have Qwest/Centurylink (They used to be terrible but now they are good) and they are among the few not participating, everyone needs to switch to these good ISPs and show the government, hollywood, and the pushover ISPs that we aren’t going to take it.

    • G

      Sonic.net in the San Francisco bay area has its customers in mind too. Highly encourage everyone out here to go with them or Monkey Brains.

    • Pi

      I just signed up with iiNet last weekend.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Samir-Younan/100003585460684 Samir Younan

      This. I will consider, and most likely will, sign up with them right now. Optus just keeps raising the price up for an already expensive 150GB plan.

      • http://www.facebook.com/adamdjt Adam Daniel John Thompson

        Dodo’s unlimited plan is probably cheaper.

    • aussie

      Its days like this make me me happy to be an Australian, However iinet Is not the best ISP in Australia by any stretch. They are The Ones that where targeted first and the ones that have stood up.

      If internode (Proberly australias best-For gaming,ping times ect) Or Tpg -The best for sheer price and data allowamce-unlimited) Was to join forces with iinet this Would be a great day indeed.

      • Zarath

        iiNet owns Internode now… They joined up some time ago. Internode is still run separately for now, but they are both owned by the same company.

      • http://www.facebook.com/adamdjt Adam Daniel John Thompson

        Dodo are now better than TPG both price and service, and I’m getting better service with Dodo than I did with iiNet as an AAPT customer.

        • me212

          yeah, dodo, good luck canceling your account…

  • Varun DM

    Now it’s time for all of the isp’s around the world to do the same.

    Fuck u MAFIAA & hollywood

    • Violated0

      iiNet has only done what is right to protect their subscribers and people should be proud of them.

      It has been proved that Hollywood’s copyright cartels had AFACT go after iiNet due to being a smaller ISP with less resources to defend themselves. The US copyright cartels did not want to put their name on this action to avoid a US attack on Australia situation.

      iiNet refused to comply then AFACT took them to court where of course iiNet won. Since politics is corrupt then iiNet was still politically bullied with trade negotiations under the threat of sanctions. It has been clear all along this was only to bully iiNet into compliance and iiNet has no love for the people who dragged them through court.

      iiNet has made clear all along that their problem is with meeting consumer demand in a reasonable time-frame. That is why any scheme iiNet would consider would avoid action again people pirating content that was not lawfully available in Australia.

      These negotiations were always doomed so iiNet simply hanged around long enough to put in a good showing and to see if there was anything to benefit their commercial gain. I applaud their walk-out when there is no agreement to be had.

      • Guest2

        Totally agree with you Violated. If they had won a case against iiNet, which is such a small company, AFACT could have moved to using extortion on bigger companies citing iiNet as an example of why the companies should comply.

        But it’s a great thing that iiNet won. This could have been one of the biggest tide changers on the battlefield had they lost, because the court rulings of future cases have to cite former cases, and had iiNet lost, the case could have been used as their ultimate weapon.

  • http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

    Go, iiNet, go.

  • zest

    nr1 move by them ! center finger to usa was showed from Australia IPS :D

  • Lethn

    Yes! They’re losing support at last!

  • http://www.facebook.com/zakiuddincs Zaki Uddin

    that is the right thing to do, iSP shouldn’t be the part of these restrictions, by doing that, they can be victim of great loss

    • Cliffo50

      Bullshit!!!!!

  • Who

    “online piracy” again were do you see piracy? the worlds definition on this word is ASS backwards now that the industry has pushed its FALSE definition.

  • jefry
  • Aussie Matt

    Im in Australia, Iinet bought out my ISP – Internode.. we shall see whathappens inthe nextfew months. Finally an ISP with balls. Fix the model that is decades old. Your way of thinking is wrong. wake the *** up !!

    • Riick

      I just switched ISPs to Internode, then read this article and wished I’d switched to iiNet. Then read your comment and a little bit of wee came out.

      • Psy

        It’s been quite a while now. Services (call centres etc) are used across the board.

  • downunder

    Finally a ISP with my views and points… make the stuff affordable DRM free and available world wide same day of airing the p2p tv shows problem will mostly go away

    unless they still force their formats with limited viewing with drm then the problem woul dbe partly solved and still wont go away.

    got to be $5usd a season download in mp4 format no drm

    then it will work to make everyone happy and money

  • Andrew me

    The problem for the gatekeepers is they do not want to supply everything they “own” they rely on the fact that it is difficult to purchase a product to up the prices, they rely on the fact that they control when something is released, and they, up to now, have managed to create a system where the media you have purchased eventually has to be repurchased as tape and cd and dvd and does not last a lifetime.

    Imagine if everyone alive today had all of the music and movies ever purchased by there immediate family, imagine if all those tapes and cd’s and lp’s and 8tracks that eventually had to be thrown away could be had in digital format. We would all be sitting with our favourite artists music, we would be sitting with our mother and fathers music and our uncles and aunts music,more than enough to listen to for a very long time

    The gatekeepers will fight until the end, until they are forced by a court to supply their full catalogues online, And the gatekeepers will fight it like they fought the piano the tape the vcr the dvr and the internet which is just the latest in a long list of technologies. I just hope that the court is honest enough to make sharing with others for no financial gain legal throught the world. Imagine having access to everything, imagine being able to search for a song with a few words from the lyrics and listen to it within a few seconds. The future is here and as has happened many many times in the past the industry if fighting it , lets just tell them to move forward, or at least move forward a bit. I think this time around it is going to be the Australians that are the first to change the laws, they will be the first to have a court enable sharing and they will be the first to declare copyright changes that will remove the ability to sue every single citizen that has downloaded a music track.

    The copyright monopolists have already lost , they just do not realsie it yet.

    • Anon

      “until they are forced by a court to supply their full catalogues online”

      You really have to stop drinking at breakfast.

      • Andrew me

        Everyone said the courts would never allow the vcr to be used as intended, and the tape recorder and many other things in the past, I would have sounded crazy and been called out then too.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Anon, that is going to happen very soon. The courts are getting severely tired of these music, movie and TV companies not offering their products in easy to get ways online, while insisting on stopping what amounts to, in real life, sharing between friends.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        What Andrew_me said was that he hoped the copyright holders were forced to supply their full catalogues online – right after talking about “legal services”.

        Nice to know you think anyone who believes the stakeholders will supply full catalogues in their online services in decent and reasonable fashion must be drunk.

        For what it’s worth, for once we are in agreement as I also believe anyone at this stage believing Warner, Sony and EMI would act in good faith has to be insane or inebriated.

        Or did you simply display lack of literacy and assumed Andrew was talking about Hollywood being forced by a court to put all their films on TPB?

        Well, to be honest, extending to the digital the same “fair use” which property rights mandated to owners of cassette tapes and VCR would do just that.

        And that is exactly what sooner or later will be done. The only question is whether any consumer will, at that time, be willing to give any money to the industry at all, no matter price or availability.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        And then the pirates are forced by court to pay the price set in those catalogues? And by some magic they will pay?

        • Anyone

          currently people pay for stuff all the time, despite it being available for free

          if your product or service is good, it will be bought

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          Right… “I’ll never buy anything from the MAFIAA again” etc. Very common.

        • Anyone

          yes, very common, and understandable
          if you insult your customers, don’t expect their business anytime soon

        • Happy Artist

          It is becoming a common attitude. The longer they keep treating customers like criminals the more common it will become.

          I don’t ever expect you or them to understand that though. Which is fine, art will be so much better off when the MAFIAA supported assembly lines are shut down.

          I see the coming of the days when artists make music for the sake of making music. Without being hidden from the world by over promoted puppets. You say they won’t make any money. I know that they will. The puppet music won’t be profitable, but real art will.

        • IDIOCRACY

          indeed, remember “milli vanilli”
          real puppets and not able to produce one note.

        • http://twitter.com/Paladinleeds Daniel Ratcliffe

          Exactly this! There’s an American artist who while signed, is to a record label I had never heard of before. I enjoy her music. So guess what, I’m buying it! As you can hear that her heart and soul goes into the music.

        • jon7272

          i agree bottled water lol

        • RIAAtarded

          Of course they’d pay for it. You’re under the impression piracy is free it is not, just reading the comments here would tell you that. How many times you see user advocating VPNs, servers etc or services to avoid region lock? Why do you think ISPs have packages with high caps and speeds your average user doesn’t need any of that to poke someone on facebook. Plus you have bills for hardware, storage, power consumption… the list goes on. The reality is pirates want the access to the content and although cost is factor it isn’t the primary one. The rights holders could simply setup a proper content delivery system for the archives and most of this would become a non issue.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          I was obviously referring to paying the creators.

        • Anyone

          if they have no part in creating the copy, why should they be paid?

        • Fredrika

          > “I was obviously referring to paying the creators.”

          Are you advocating donations or charity?

        • MadAsASnake

          MPAA and RIAA never do that, movie and music industry pay peanuts, sometimes…

        • RIAAtarded

          that is the point though isn’t it. if they put all these restrictions on distribution and cost it excessively high when it does become available what options do I have as a consumer? Say i’m an expat just wanting a taste of normalcy from home but you’ve locked the content so I can’t. What if you hear about some blockbuster TV show or movie, you watch trailers, previews, play demos only to find out it will not be locally available for upwards of 18 months in australia and maybe never depending on your region. That is just poor business practices to me.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “I was obviously referring to paying the creators.”

          Ah, you mean unlike the CRIA?

          Or are you referring to the 1-5% the “creator” can expect to get from an industry plying a market model which bears closer resemblance to that of instituted serfdom than anything else?

        • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

          I’m not averse to spending, I’m averse to unnecessary access windows and hoops to jump through and unavailable formats. It’s a supply issue, and always has been. And vilifying your customers is a poor way to do business. Because we ~are~ customers, and would gladly pay for available content if it was available in the way we wanted it, if these guys would figure it out and meet the demand and get with the times. Shame they all have to be so fucking quixotic.

        • IDIOCRACY

          In the Netherlands the pirates and everybody else will pay for content to the content owners (again) starting 1 january 2013 “by the new home copy fee” (which law will be challenged by Dell, HP, Acer, Imation, Samsungad others, they sue the state due to extensive financial damages).

          However downloading will be legal, this week the Parliament will vote in favor of proposition to not create a download prohibition, which effectively means that downloading will stay legal by law.

          For example the fee for a smart-phone will be 5 euro’s. But all that already have a phone / computer / hard-disk etc, did not pay that fee, but will still legally download. This downloading is legal even if the source offers it illegally / unauthorized.

          So the court will dismiss the catalog prize and find the plaintiffs request (MAFIAA) inadmissible.

          So they don’t even need court to pay the fee (the pirates I mean). they either pay by the home copy fee or use old or 2nd hand equipment en don’t have to pay ever. No court can change that.

          I just ordered a 2Tbyte HDD, nice more space for legal downloads… and already paid before 1 January. hehe

          But my dear NTP, don’t cry over that, your buddies from RIAA and MAFIAA will take the money from their clients to maintain their lifestyle. The next signing artist just does not get 5% of the revenue, but 2,5%.

          They will also stop paying you because you are not needed anymore, as in obsolete, you are not needed anymore to convince people to stop downloading because you think it is theft, it is legal, sharing is legal.

          Soon the conviction of the Piratebay in the Netherlands will be turned around because the Pirate bay does not offer the infringing content in any way, they just help to do something legal, downloading.

          And there is no need to reply with downloading with P2P is also uploading, because that is not true by definition. Even not with the BitTorrent protocol. With bittorrent it is perfectly possible to not upload anything else but protocol. (how would a download otherwise start if you have not a single piece yet).

          You might be able to keep your job by trying to persuade people not to upload, but downloading will be legal everywhere in the very near future. I might advise you to use a different tactic to do this then you do now because you really suck at it.
          (just being honest hehe)

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “And by some magic they will pay?”

          Every market study ever performed has conclusively shown that pirates, when offered a good deal, are all too willing to pay. That number, depending on the type of media, is between 2 and 4 times what the non-pirating consumer offers.

          So if “by some magic” you mean “as empirical data verifies they do” then yes. Magic.

          As usual, NTP, if you HAVE to attempt a comeback, at least try to do it without demonstrating yet one more time that you don’t even know the facts about the topic you are badly trying to debate.

    • Guest

      There is one particular 70′s American TV series that I would like to purchase and I did a search for it and I found a search result for it on WarnerArchive and when i had a look at the website to purchase it there was a note to say that the item was not available to ship outside of US. I could not find any other search results to purchase where i could purchase the item that I wanted but there was a result for it showing on to be on The Pirate Bay. As I can’t purchase the item because I don’t live in the US and the item is not available to purchase outside of the US i will now have to download the item from The Pirate Bay. Those in the MPAA etc. would scream piracy etc. but if it was available to me for purchase then i would have bought it and money paid to them. If they can’t make items available to purchase outside of the US then they only have themselves to blame that people resort to obtaining a copy from a torrent site.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        “i will now have to download the item from The Pirate Bay”

        You don’t have to do anything. If you want something and it’s not for sale, you don*t *have to* steal it. Piracy is an active action, not something done because someone’s pointing a gun to your head.

        • Matt

          Well it isn’t like they were losing a sale. Fewer people would pirate if they would stop fucking their customers.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          By definition they’re not fucking their customers since a customer accepts the terms and conditions (and the price) and then buys something.

          They’re fucking the non customers that want something without accepting the terms and conditions (and the price), similar to stealing.

        • Anyone

          it is in no way similar to stealing
          stop repeating that lie, it doesn’t make it any more true

          if I make my own copy I don’t owe them any money

          if I cook a recipe of Jamie Oliver, do I suddenly owe him money? of course not
          it’s the same with downloading, if I make my own copy of a song or movie I don’t owe anyone any money

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          A recipe is very different than music and movies. If you have the recipe, you still have to buy all the ingredients and do the cooking. A recipe is very far from a complete product.

          A digital copy of a song or a movie IS the copyrighted product, you don’t have to buy ingredients and do some work for making the actual music. That’s why both the original composition and the produced recorded and mastered original is copyrighted.

        • Anyone

          I still have to buy my computer, my bandwidth and my electricity if I download something

          it’s exactly the same, the “recipy” is the .torrent file, the ingredients is electricity and bandwidth and the kitchen is my computer

        • Fredrika

          > “..you still have to buy all the ingredients and do the cooking”

          That would be buying the computer and the hard drive, and manufacturing it. You see? It’s identical.

          > “A digital copy of a song or a movie IS the copyrighted product..”

          Nope. The copy is a piece of physical good that is owned by the owner of the hard drive, and it’s is not copyrighted. Copyright regulates use of the creative work, not physical property.

          > “That’s why both the original composition and the produced
          recorded and mastered original is copyrighted.”

          The creative work is copyrighted because they law says so. Nothing else.

        • IDIOCRACY

          still it is legal to download (in for example the Netherlands) so it cannot be theft.

        • IDIOCRACY

          No if you have bought the recipe you also have to buy all the ingredients and do the cooking, so it is exactly the same….the recipe is the product , not the food.

          If you listen to a cd, you do not have the actual band playing in your room or car or head, it is a product generated by the machine you use, you just put the recipe (CD) in the machine and the machine makes the music not the CD.

          duh. hehe

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          No, and that’s where you are wrong.

          By your own reasoning, simply re-encoding the copy into a digital format will then yield something which is not identical at all.

          And as for baking cakes you are now arguing that if anyone COULD bake cakes with near-identical taste, they would be “stealing” from wal-mart.

          Either baking at home or home carpentry is copyright infringement (as is pouring water in a bottle as that creates an identical product in all aspects but the label to Evian)…or by your own argument, re-encoding a media file will void the copyright argument entirely.

          Which is it?

          Indeed, the only way you can have it both ways – eat the cake and have it, as it were – is if you assume that the law can not make sense.

        • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

          Home cooking’s killing restaurants
          Home sewing’s killing fashion
          Home sleeping’s killing hotels…

        • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

          ;) recipes are specifically not copyrightable, interesting that you picked that analogy.

        • Fredrika

          > “By definition they’re not fucking their customers..”

          Since pirates are the biggest customers, any fucking with pirates is by definition fucking with their customers.

          > “..similar to stealing.”

          Nope, similar to playing with a cute kitten.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “Nope, similar to playing with a cute kitten.”

          A behavior which NTP would certainly claim could be patentable and infringers not paying their licenses punished. If he follows his own logic as outlined in his own posts.

        • MadAsASnake

          Since when in this case did a customer accept terms and conditions that are any of your business?

        • IDIOCRACY

          Don’t lie, I just told you downloading is legal, how can it be stealing if it is legal, stealing is illegal. Do you try to say that yes is no or black is in fact white or lesbians are hetro or the earth is flat??? get your facts strait, something legal can never be illegal at the same time. (ok forget quantum mechanics for a moment :D )

        • watfordjc

          In the case of the game industry, customers accept the price, and only find out what the terms are after they have removed the cellophane.

          Oh, and you can’t disagree with the terms and conditions you haven’t read because you can’t get a refund if the cellophane has been removed.

        • Liam JH

          no physical property has been taken – nothing has been stolen, no sale has been lost. Nej with his usual stealing lie

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          Yes, a sale may have been lost, or on average a certain percentage of a lost sale. According to the Swedish Mediavision study, based on interviews with the downloaders, the pirates would have bought the file in 25% of the cases if not available through piracy.

        • Happy Artist

          And they would have spent the same total amount – or possibly more – on music. The difference is they would have spent more on music they didn’t like. Buying music only to find out you don’t like it doesn’t encourage you to spend more, does it?

        • Anyone

          exactly
          NTP somehow thinks that if we couldn’t pirate we suddenly would have so much more money lying around ready to be spent

          money is finite, my entertainment budget is finite.
          the only money that is “lost” to the MAFIAA is the one that is needed to go towards a VPN because of their measures

        • Anyone

          stop quoting that biased study

          of course a study bought by the MAFIAA will say that piracy causes harm
          all independent studies however show that that is not true

        • CEO of WC Eend

          Sale was lost because they didn’t make it available. He clearly says I WANT TO PAY, but he could not. Clearly they don’t even want his money.

          The definition of stealing is that the former owner no longer has the object in question in his possession. As much as i hate going into a discussion with someone that claims definitions from the dictionary to be false. Clearly what he did was make a copy. Be it without paying the rights holder, but he didn’t want his money anyway.

          Consider the following statement in your quest to understanding human behavior:

          “Because no condoms were available he should have simply not have had sex with Scarlett Johansson”.

          Your study i can counter argue by one i found recently myself: This recent study by the company “WC Eend” concluded that “WC Eend” was clearly the best.

        • Fredrika

          > “Yes, a sale may have been lost..”

          There’s no such thing as a lost sale, their is only failure to sell. The responsibility for that falls on the seller alone.

          > “..or on average a certain percentage of a lost sale.”

          Or on average gained sales.

          > “According to the Swedish Mediavision study..”

          You mean the study done by a 100% dependent private company, the study that was so full of flaws that it couldn’t stand up to any scrutiny, which was the reason it never got published in the first place?

        • aidanjt

          How can you lose a sale when it isn’t up for sale? Did your parents drop you on your head as a child?

        • guest

          Lost a potential sale! OMG! Sounds like Minority Report! Arrest someone before they commit a crime! If we always approach a problem or life with that mindset, we would still be in the dark ages, probably still burning witches!

        • MadAsASnake

          How has a sale been lost. He took a free copy because no other option (like paying for it) was available.

        • Guest

          So this is the only thing you have to back up your claims that piracy is bad.

          One (non-cited)survey where the pirates who were interviewed said they would have purchased something in 25% of the cases if it hadn’t been available through piracy.

          That is utterly pathetic.

          Well, even if it’s true that sad little 25% is easily offset by the extra money that pirates spend on media.

          Oh, also, since you’re a prolifically dishonest MAFIAA shill I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask for an actual link to the study.

        • IDIOCRACY

          An imaginary sale lost, does not make it illegal and morality is in the eye of the beholder, downloading is legal (in a lot of countries). And when it is legal,…you’re out

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “…or on average a certain percentage of a lost sale.”

          According to every market study performed meeting actual scientific criteria, that claim has been disproven. If there is a certain percentage lost, that percentage is conclusively so small science can not measure it.

          “…According to the Swedish Mediavision study, based on interviews with the downloaders.”

          A bought-and-paid-for study performed by one of the vested interests which meets NO scientific criteria and has serious gaps in method does nothing to prop up the verified falsification of the lost sale.

          That the lost sale does not exist is by now as solid a statement as saying that a rock will fall from a position with an acceleration of 9.82 meters per second squared at the equator.

          That theory will not be disproven by you saying “no it won’t, because we asked some pirates and ignored the results we didn’t like” either.

        • Techanon

          Copying is NOT stealing. Is NOT EVEN SIMILAR to stealing.

        • Fredrika

          > “If you want something and it’s not for
          sale, you don*t *have to* steal it.”

          He did not discuss stealing it?

        • guest

          It’s not “stealing.” Stealing is taking away something from someone. If this “piracy” is stealing, then dvr’s should be illegal. Just because someone is nice enough to record a game, show, or movie you missed and posted it on the web for you does not make it illegal. People have been doing this for years, especially with a vcr back in the day. Ridiculous! You wouldn’t steal a purse from an old lady, so why would you download something. Dumbest antipiracy psa ever!

        • Guest

          “You don’t have to do anything.”

          Guest wants to obtain this TV series that’s only available to him through piracy. So, yes, he does have to pirate it. And if it was available to him legally then he wouldn’t have to. That’s the point.

          you don*t *have to* steal it.

          Oh, so you’ve reverted to lying that piracy is theft? But you’ve been insisting for weeks that it’s only “very similar to theft, but not theft”.

          Why are you contradicting yourself now?

          Did you get some orders from the MAFIAA to start pushing the lie that “piracy is stealing!1!1″ again?

        • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

          “”You don’t have to do anything.”

          Guest wants to obtain this TV series that’s only available to him through piracy. So, yes, he does have to pirate it. And if it was available to him legally then he wouldn’t have to. That’s the point.”

          I like how he(Nej) completely avoided answering that, and instead started making accusations.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      “…have managed to create a system where the media you have purchased eventually has to be repurchased as tape and cd and dvd and does not last a lifetime.”

      This, right there.

      One main reason why the copyright industry fails at all levels in any comparison to honest business is that it tacitly relies on selling very product not once but multiple times to the same customer.

      Honestly, this is an industry which for a century has been run by con artist and snake oil salesmen. Their real stock-in-trade isn’t media but fraud.

      Well, piracy can’t dent the industry. more’s the pity. And so it’s just an evil we’ll have to bear. What we can and should do is hope that what eventually breaks that industry will be the technology rendering it in large parts redundant and unneccessary.

  • an iinet customer in perth

    iiNet have got balls. Thanks for standing up to the legal bullies of Hollywood.

  • Anon

    The network we share is laden with malfeasance just as the real world is. ISP’s are the gatekeepers to the network. They are not by any stretch the post office or the telephone company, in fact in many ways they are rendering those communications increasingly obsolete.

    This one ISP is grandstanding, posturing only for the moment. It will either realize and accept duties that will inevitably come with holding the profitable keys to the kingdom, or the government will simply take those keys away with broad societal support. Civilizations flourish only with regulation, all of history tells us that.

    • Andrew me

      Phone lines are illegal to record as should the broadband lines , it is illegal to open someone’s mail or disrupt mail delivery in any way,and it should be the same with broadband access.

      What the monopolists want is the right to store and access everyone’s private communications and look into it to see if anyone has downloaded something they believe to be illegal.

      Everyone has a right to privacy, and the only time that right can be taken away is if it is proven that the person has committed a crime, a serious crime, no court will allow the police access to all a persons communications and to wire-tap there phone or broadband if they receive a traffic fine, so why should they be allowed to because someone might have shares a simple file.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      “They are not by any stretch the post office or the telephone company”

      Yes they are. If that comparison begs more detail it would be that in reality the ISP would rather correspond to the manufacturer of the road grid on which the post office’s cars run, or the engineers hooking up the lines enabling the phone company to function.

      Indeed, a more appropriate comparison to the ordinary post office or fedex would today be the VPN which ensures your communication is handled in a sealed envelope.

      “It will either realize and accept duties that will inevitably come with holding the profitable keys to the kingdom…”

      Just as the road builders must be held accountable for all the speeders, I see. Well, “Anon-land” is getting more and more interesting by the minute. So far the unavoidable consequences of what you describe is a society in stasis where no one is able to move at all, lest they be smitten by legal liability.

      In “Anon-land” no one can make a screwdriver and sell it unless said vendor then follows the customer like a hawk to ensure the customer does no wrong. Lest the vendor be smitten by the full force of the law for “abetting”

      And this is what “Anon” describes as “keys to the kingdom”.

      “or the government will simply take those keys away with broad societal support. Civilizations flourish only with regulation, all of history tells us that.”

      Actually, what history tells us is two things – Firstly that no society even trying to implement such control has survived even one century of such control before complete and utter collapse.

      And secondly, that every time such a conflict has occurred as “Anon” envisions, society has decidedly come down for extensions of “fair use” and material property rights, not for copyright. You’d think a century’s worth of losing would have taught “Anon” this as well.

      You know, Baghdad Bob, you should co-post these little gems on “Art of Trolling”, not just here. Not that we don’t find it entertaining to hear you regale us all with the most recent and future glories of Saddam’s heroic Republican Guard.

      • Anon

        Scary, Government will not allow piracy to destroy more digital marketplaces, the way piracy has destroyed for-sale recorded music. I’m not referencing the overall industry, that can’t be pirated and is doing fine. But digital files for sale in music have been degraded in price (not value) expressly for piracy, and pirates take a kind of pride in that fact. I doubt government will afford to let this trend go into all other areas of digital format for sale, and it also seems realistic that more will be digitized going forward, not less.

        Did you know that all aroma was digitized in the late 1990′s and home “printers” for fragrances were planned, then pulled from the pipeline towards internet distribution, to protect perfumes from the damage piracy was causing in recorded music? If those perfume formulas ever get out and home aroma printers appeared, that’s the end of the perfume-for-sale industry. We already see what a small subset of people will do, illegal or not, if they “can.” 3-D printers will prove very interesting, no doubt.

        But if suddenly screwdrivers were responsible for an enormous and unbalanced share of unprecedented mayhem, in a similar way the internet has facilitated a broad range of civil and criminal activity online because there is little current regulation and surveillance—screwdrivers would indeed be blanketed in regulation. And i suspect you know that and are too small minded to acknowledge this.

        The internet is a tool like the screwdriver and history will be no different. use it properly and keep it. Use it to mask malfeasance and society itself will stamp you out. Look at what is going on right now at the UN level. lol You expect the UN to back off and throw their hands up and just let pirates have their way? lol Either you are not a student of the way economic/governmental history unfolds, or you just don’t think very clearly. You still (apparently) honestly believe “they can’t stop us” is a strategy. lol Hey. Works for me.

        • Anyone

          piracy is not destroying anything

          the MAFIAA is destroying new businesses, such as MegaUpload

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          “Look at what is going on right now at the UN level. lol You expect the UN to back off and throw their hands up and just let pirates have their way? lol ”

          LOL! Not going to happen, quite the opposite.

        • IDIOCRACY

          sadly for you guys the UN has nothing to say about this civil matter.

        • MadAsASnake

          The for-sale business model of CD’s because CD’s are obsolete. The Music industry by and large failed to see this. That is their problem.

        • IDIOCRACY

          And again I have to tell you otherwise, it is just the other way around, taking your screwdriver story as an example:

          Tools that were made to prevent theft / self repair are for example at first pinTorx, look at it now.. can buy it everywhere, the other special screws to prevent theft are for example pig-nose screws, hey my local hardware store sells the bits for that. Chip cards and blank magnetic strip card are used to copy credit cards and bank cards, causing the banks more loss than a few imaginary lost sales, still I can buy the hardware at my local electronics shop.

          And if you read my previous post, the government in for example Portugal and for example Netherlands vote(d) against making a download prohibition, so it was and remains legal there.

          So tell me why would ISP close a gate for something legal… that is just stupid, it cost them money and it is not even required… the CEO that authorizes that will be kicked out the first next board meeting.
          That is a recipe for killing your own business.
          So sorry…. it will not happen.

          The “they can’t stop us” quote is not a strategy, it is a force of nature, like the wind, you cannot stop that from blowing either, the sun coming up every day, he only way to stop both is blowing up the sun. hehe

          So do you understand now how stupid you sound? we do hehe

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “The “they can’t stop us” quote is not a strategy, it is a force of nature, like the wind, you cannot stop that from blowing either, the sun coming up every day, he only way to stop both is blowing up the sun. hehe”

          Ah, but you don’t live in “Anon-land”.
          In “Anon-land” when king Canute orders the tides whipped for disobedience they meekly shuffle off to boot camp, buying three CD’s and a set of Vinyl records as atonement on the way.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “But if suddenly screwdrivers were responsible for an enormous and unbalanced share of unprecedented mayhem…”

          You mean as they, in fact, are?

          Screwdrivers are among the top ten of improvised weapons used to kill other people and are used in roughly 90% of premeditated burglaries. Other similar heavy offensive armament being hammers and crowbars.

          The post office in every country is by definition also that nations single biggest distributor of drugs, child pornography and contraband

          Cars alone cause almost 40,000 deaths every year in the US alone.

          Wow.

          Where is this blanket of regulations you speak of? On the other haze of that drug-riddled stupor through which you seem to peer into the future?

          In “Anon-land” common sense is not.

          For an éncore you will be trying to regale us with how Saddam will return victorious and oust the US presence from the entire middle east, no doubt. It makes as much sense as the dribbling gibberish you vented in your little wordwall above.

      • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

        “you should co-post these little gems on “Art of Trolling”"

        You mean this isn’t memebase.cheezburger?, damn i clicked the wrong bookmark again.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          It’s an easy mistake to make, given how, for example, “Anon”, “Nejtillpirater” and “Wal-mart” try to argue.

    • jimmy671

      Piss Off TROLL!

    • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

      Laws must change, net neutrality is a utopia. The major problem is that ISPs only care about profits, as long as the customers pay the monthly fee, they look in another direction since they’re afraid of losing customers and income.

      Laws must change so that all ISPs, world-wide, must comply with basic rules – when reports arrive regarding customers breaking the law they must take action. Warnings, bandwidth throttling etc.

      • Anyone

        there is no alternative to net neutrality

        and since piracy causes no harm it is not a problem that needs to be “fixed”

      • Fredrika

        > “..net neutrality is a utopia.”

        Net neutrality is already law in several countries, and fully functioning such.

        > “The major problem is that ISPs only care aboutrofits, as long as the customers pay the monthly fee..”

        Usually that’s what companies should care about.

        > “..they look in another direction since they’re afraid of losing customers and income.”

        No, privacy laws forbid them from looking at their customers traffic. Not looking at what you aren’t allowed to look at does not mean you look the other way.

        > “Laws must change so that all ISPs, world-wide..”

        You really have no understanding for world politics, do you?

        > “..must comply with basic rules..”

        Privacy rules that forbid them from looking at their customers traffic?

        > “..when reports arrive regarding customers breaking the law they must take action.”

        They already do, when they receive due process court ordered actions from the authorities. But that’s not what you are asking for, now is it? You’re asking for private police and avoidance of due process?

        > “Warnings, bandwidth throttling etc.”

        Again you prove that your technical knowledge is zero. Warnings only function with open protocols, and throttling doesn’t function at all because it renders legal services useless, and by doing so damages the economy.

      • MadAsASnake

        So it’s fine for Hollywood to scream like spoilt brats in order to make more money, but its immoral for an ISP (or anyone else) to make money by simply carrying on their lawful business?

      • IDIOCRACY

        So tell me than why the European committee urged (summoned) EU commissioner “Neely Smit Kroes” to come very fast with a European Law about Net Neutrality, the kind of Law that already starts working in the Netherlands from 1st of January??? So the Law indeed changes, but apparently you are not aware that is changes slowly towards everything you say will not happen…. To use a Pirate related phrase:

        Why do you not leave your sinking ship while you can, or you will drown with it….
        Start searching for a new job, trolling is apparently not your best skill.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        To summarize you have one personal opinion – the only valid part of your post – backed up by technical and legal impossibilities?

        Well. I’ll have to amend that. Not “impossible” just that the future according to you contains no internet and – by extension – very few ways for people to legally leave their own homes.

        Because, you see, the law MUST operate, not according to “reports” but by a paradigm where the violence monopoly of the state has strict criteria to follow as to how it can go into action. This includes “burden of proof”.

        And as for technology the one and only way you can use warnings and bandwidth throttling is by accepting any legal business takes a nose dive.

      • aidanjt

        I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but net neutrality is the natural state of the internet, has been for decades, it’s only greedy power-hungry plutocratic assholes who’re demanding internet discrimination.

        Also, the laws must do nothing of the sort. Laws and government don’t exist to serve plutocrats, they exist at the pleasure of the people, and the people will only tolerate so much civil liberties eroding bullshit.

    • IDIOCRACY

      “Civilizations flourish only with regulation, all of history tells us that.”

      No History tells us that regulation will bring destruction horror misery pain war and injustice to many. Apparently the Swedish history books are not honest about a lot of things, and this is one of them. or do they but did you just skip school those days? I don’t want to advocate “Michail Bakoenin” here but a lot he said made good sense. You might add that one to your reading list.

      And about governments taking away keys, this week they give them a key in the Netherlands by voting in favor for a proposition not to create a download prohibition.
      So Downloading is legal and stays legal there, and they are not the only country that does that, others were before and others will follow.
      So my dear anon, I guess you can also (like NTP) start looking for another job.
      Downloading is legal and therefore cannot be theft, because theft is illegal by law.
      So: downloading = legal =/= illegal = theft. Get it?? so don’t try to say otherwise because that is the same as saying black is white and the earth is flat…. or do you think it is??

      • IDIOCRACY

        That one was addressed to NTP but disqus did not get it …

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Whether the one you were adressing was “Anon” or “Nejtillpirater” isn’t all that important, I feel.

  • cheb

    Good on them, Telstra did a similar thing a year or two ago as well.

  • 31ieydebgyqdiqwhg`

    Control of the internet is nothing to do with copyrights.
    Julia G should be ….

  • tut

    i want to move to australia thank god somebody in the isp industry is standing up to these assholes with any luck it will start a trend these other isps have to realize that they will be on the loosing end of this when customers ditch their service alienating and narcing on your customers is not good business

    • jon7272

      untill the national broadband network is fully rolled out you wont have decent speeds unless you call 3,5mb ok

    • anonymous

      what makes it worse is that no matter what anyone, ISP or other industry etc, agrees to, within 5 minutes the entertainment industries are back making more demands! nothing anyone does is enough! the only way to end this is to fight as a single body. make the same threats to government as those industries do about job losses, revenue losses, tax losses because without some sensible help here, the internet providers are going to be in the position of using their own profits to keep the industries profits up, when they are doing nothing themselves. the only way for that to happen is to increase broadband prices, which will drive more people away from the ‘net, not that the entertainment industries give a flyin’ fucl!

    • Anon

      Eventually, Tut, government regulation of the internet, probably through the United Nations, will simply write the rules ISP’s will have to follow, if they won’t log voluntarily, or they won’t be licensed to access the internet in the first place. That’s not hard to do. No government is going to allow unaccountability in the long run on a network used to distribute digital merchandise. Not a single country with digital goods to sell, and that will eventually include everyone. I’m surprised pirates are foolish and shortsighted enough to keep infringing and even try to argue this. “Free speech” “Privacy”

      lol

      • Guest

        ” government regulation of the internet

        Government regulation of the internet doesn’t work. It’s a time-tested failure and the idea that it will ever be effective is a sad joke of a myth.

        Governments all over the world are currently regulating the shit out of the internet, but guess what? It doesn’t do anything because people simply laugh and bypass is. China is trying to regulate the internet with an iron fist, but they can’t do shit to make it actually work. Chinese citizens tunnel through the “Great Firewall” in droves.

        So why does the regulation fail? Why are even the biggest, most powerful governments in the world powerless to subdue the internet?

        Because they aren’t in control of it. We, the people, are. When John Gilmore said “the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it”, do you think he was joking? Do you think he was fucking around?

        No. He was explaining a fact.

        A fact that eludes you and the MAFIAA no matter how apparent it becomes, but a fact nontheless.

        The internet will be regulated? Piracy won’t be allowed?

        lol

        You are living in a cave.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “You are living in a cave.”

          No, he lives in “Anon-land”. Caves conform to the laws of causal reality. “Anon-land” does not.

      • IDIOCRACY

        And where did you get that idea? must have smoked some DEA controlled substances, I just told NTP the same, it is just the other way around,

        If so…than tell me why the European committee urged (summoned) EU
        commissioner “Neely Smit Kroes” to come very fast with a European Law
        about Net Neutrality and does the government of the netherlands vote in favor of a proposition not to create a download prohibition, so Downloading is and stays legal…?

        This happening is just he opposite from what you want us to believe according to your post above (or any other post of you).

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        “…if they won’t log voluntarily, or they won’t be licensed to access the internet in the first place.”

        Already in place all over the EU. Doesn’t disturb piracy in the slightest. Although the common man is certainly impacted by the loss of privacy.

        Your tool is already in used and has proved worthless. Next.

        “That’s not hard to do.”

        And demonstrably useless. Next.

        “I’m surprised pirates are foolish and shortsighted enough to keep infringing and even try to argue this. “Free speech” “Privacy”"

        And winning all across the board. You forgot that fact.
        But then you usually do.

        Anything else? Some news about how the republican guard will rally and throw Israel into the sea in time for tea next thursday?

  • Wal-Mart

    They are not complying and helping promote theft and stealing is what they are doing.

    It is ISP’s like this that are making THE HOBBIT not makey any money and why we aren’t getting sequels to it cuase they will cancel them.

    I’m American and I support Hollywood for what they are doing becuase its our movies not yours. Australia is just another stupid country in Europe thats why they don’t care.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Wal-Mart, thank you for showing how stupid you are. I am an American and I support iiNet’s position on this.

    • James

      Sup troll? Guess what, you’re more stupid than Australia in Europe.
      Just wanted to point out, not to forget that iiNet’s customer service is also top notch and their website, Toolbox, is pretty intuitive.

    • Growler

      Bahahaha… “Australia is just another stupid country in Europe”. Seriously dude. How stupid are you? Try picking up an atlas or looking at google maps. Hell… I think even the new Apple locations service might even have it right. Australia is pretty much on the opposite side of the planet from Europe. We are also one of the USA’s staunchest allies and fought alongside you guys in every war since WWII. Good to see you guys know who your friends are. How embarrassing for you!

      • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

        He’s trolling.

        +1 to Australia.

    • eddy

      “..Australia is just another stupid country in Europe thats why they don’t care…”

      Your stupidity astounds me….what a prick.

      A message to the rest of the Americans online…..is there any wonder the world thinks you’re all stupid when dicks like this are allowed to roam the streets. Somebody call his care worker and put him back in the home where he belongs.

      • getaclue

        get a clue; this guy is just trolling and you all are falling for it. If you fall for every troll who claims to be American, you’re making your own country look gullible.

      • magpieGRL

        Folks, DNFTT

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          But the trolls are in this case, entertaining.

    • Robbo

      Australia is nowhere near Europe, boofhead.
      Get an atlas, FFS!

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      That most definitely belongs to “Art of trolling” and not here. Especially given to what lengths our dear “wal-mart” goes to in order to look like someone for whom Cow-tipping is a tad on the fancy side…

      You don’t suppose THE HOBBIT will make little money mainly because the customer reviews have all pegged it as “disappointing”?

      Ah, of course. According to the copyright cartels, there is no art which is bad. Sony films himself taking a dump, makes no sales, and blames the pirates that he didnt make a million.

    • Colin Carr

      The Hobbit made $84,000,000 in the USA last weekend. Oh, and by the way, The Hobbit is the first of THREE movies that are the PREQUEL to the Lord Of The Rings trilogy.
      Like many Americans, you are very poorly informed about this because the main stream media are largely owned by the same people who own the music and film studios. They sure as hell aren’t going to tell you anything remotely like the truth about file sharing, or their antediluvian business model.
      Oh yes, WHERE do you think Australia is?…

      • JordanKratz

        Much as I wanted to see The Hobbit I can not allow myself to give in to the urge.I Boycott the MAFIAA and I will continue to do this.
        Fuck You MAFIAA ! This is what I meant when I stated I do not allow even a dime of my money to go your way.
        And I first read this book at the age of 12 in 1968.I still have my 1ST Edition Paperback in my huge Scifi/Fantasy Library.I love Hobbbit and LOTR but I made sure they never saw a dime from me.No Theater going and bought used physical blu-ray of LOTR Set.
        Hollywood you suck and you are greedbags.I would love to Support you and give money so more films are made but I won’t support a bunch of Assholes.
        I am depressed and wish I could of gone to see “Looper” and the “Hobbit” ETC but I got my Dignity and that is more important to me.

        Boycott All MAFIAA
        Buy and Support Local and Indie Art

        • IDIOCRACY

          Hey Jordan, I will just call you friend ok? then I will download it when I visit Holland because that is legal there. And then when I am there, send it by Google documents (or the replacement) packed and encrypted to you, that is legal to because you are my friend and I don’t charge you for it. You only have to promise to send it back to me after watching so you don’t have my legal lent copy anymore hehe.

          Than you can watch it and decide if you want to buy it anyway because it is really art or not because it really sucks like the critics say.

          This system must be legal in UK too..is it?? hehe

        • IDIOCRACY

          Sorry Maine is hardly UK… should have been US :P getting late here

    • jimmy671

      “Australia is just another stupid country in Europe”

      That statement shows what a stupid fucking TROLL you are.

    • Liam JH

      Stupid, stupid stupid.

    • DutchGuest

      Someone call this imbecile a Waaaaaaaahmbulance, they need to put his brains back in their right place, STAT ! :-D

    • Who

      OMFG are you that STUPID? what do you mean by not getting sequels? we get them all the dam time you MORON!! and they usually SUCK!

      BTW the Hobbit made ground break MONEY STUPID $223M stupid dollars. they MORE than doubled there money back.

      and FYI Australia is not located in Europe.

    • JordanKratz

      You are a scumbag MAFIAA Supporter and we do not share your views at all.You should just leave this place.
      We hate the MAFIAA and we hate their mindless and faceless Supporters.
      You are a fucking sell-out !!! Go shop in your Walmart stupid Ass.

    • TheTapsa

      “I’m American — Australia is just another stupid country in Europe thats why they don’t care.”

      xD Thats some really hilarious shit! Old joke still made my day (or night in my case). Even if obvious troll.

    • Fr3d

      Australia is just another stupid country in Europe thats why they don’t care.

      Australia and Europe are opposite end of the globe. You may be surprised to know that the the planet we live in called Earth is actually round!

      ISP’s like this that are making THE HOBBIT not makey any money and why we aren’t getting sequels to it cuase they will cancel them.

      THE HOBBIT has smashed all records and the sequels have already been film back to back.

      Hang on a minute, this is an imposter. Wal-Mart isn’t that…

  • http://twitter.com/viciouzex Joseph Fernandez

    Verizon is also another good ISP. They are hunting down Porn suing trolls.

    • Nikolas Kroeger

      They still haven’t backed out of the 6 strikes scheme tough.

      • Who

        the 6 strikes scheme is only soposta be in the US tho, but it may move to other locations after the government cracks down on them again as monitoring connections is illegal unless you are the government.

  • James

    Western Australia ROCKS!

  • ken147

    I got excited because I thought this was in the US……one can dream.

  • anonymous

    well done to iiNet and to Dalby. he is saying exactly what everyone, including the entertainment industries themselves, know to be the problem. he has said exactly what is needed to get rid of or, at least, greatly reduce, the problem. he has also said exactly who is at fault, ie, the entertainment industries themselves! he deserves all credit to having the common sense and the balls to tell it like it is! but i give him a word of warning, the entertainment industries cannot bear to hear the truth. they want everyone else to do the work and cover the expenses. when that doesn’t happen, they follow their next course and blackmail and bribe politicians into changing laws and introducing new ones so that their demands are met. i hope Dalby is prepared for that! having said that, if only other ISPs in other countries had the guts to follow this line, add in the search engines like Google (another gutless fucking company, interested only in itself!) and this ridiculous decades old problem of ‘file sharing’ would be practically eliminated over night!!

  • beauxq

    According to capitalists, everyone has to be the police of their own business.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GU43EPIIFPT4SZQYYCXUDMZG5I DJ Night Force 9

    Now if only all ISP’s around the world be just like iiNet. Why should an ISP have to pay (and with that, its subscribers pay more too) to help some other organization maintain their profit margins and monopoly. It’s not like that ISP has anything to gain by it. If anything, it’s the complete opposite. The sooner everyone ignores the MAFIAA’s whining, the sooner they will have to update their business model to suit the 21st century.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=608525922 Ronald MacDonald

    Is it greed or is it stupidity?. The vast majority of movies available via filesharing enjoy limited exposure in theatres. Usenet has provided the movie industry far more exposure for its movies than it could ever hope to get through traditional marketing. At a time when file sharers are prepared to spend $30 per month for Usenet access, plus $75 or more for high speed Internet access one would think Hollywood would get the message that there is an untapped market waiting to be serviced. Charge a reasonable fee and we’ll download directly from the industry. It is losing out on billions of dollars by refusing to develop in a new revenue source. Drive-in’s made movie going affordable for the baby boom generation, file sharing is doing the same for home theatre generation. Within the next five years ISP will be providing speeds of 250 Mbps or more enabling individuals the ability to download a standard definition movie in a few minutes. I would much prefer the quiet enjoyment of watching a movie in my own home theatre opposed to sitting in a crowded theatre with its overpriced concession stands, and unruly teens ruining the experience for everyone. The courts should be advising Hollywood to smarten up, the demand is there, take advantage of it or lose it.

  • Malphas

    business model

  • G

    I live in HK. I cannot watch free to air tv because most is in cantonese (understandably). Video hire stores are almost non-existent and have little range. I pay a lot for contentless, repetitive cable tv. I want to pay for content. I want to legitimately pay for Netflix/Hulu or anyone of a number of providers but the entertainment industry have decided that they don’t want to allow people to do it. We are not allowed access to any of these services. It’s all about control.

    They then wonder why 100′s of thousands of people/expats around the world might be tempted to obtain there content other ways. Allow me to access content at a reasonable price and I will do it.

    iiNet are right.

    • BuddhaFacePalmed

      At least you guys get good shows, in my country everything in arts, music, and the movies must be censored so that it does not “offend the sensibilities of the state.” Anything remotely homosexual, critical of the state, or just indecent gets censored

      • aidanjt

        lol @ state personification. your legislators are as bad as the religious fundies in the US.

  • wala

    Galing mo sir dapat gayahin ka nila .Wag ka maging asong ulul.salamat ulit. Wag ka magpauto

  • APai

    MPAA/ RIAA are nothing but corrupt businesses houses and crooks who act as if they were pre-ordained for profits according to their antiquated business models. they fight their flagging business by propping up politicians who take up their cause. people should band together and take the fight to them. unless they change their business model and under hand tactics, don’t feed them. rapists and thugs get lesser punishment, or lesser punitive damages awarded, then someone “convicted” for sharing a file.

    to the ISPs who fight this stupidity: “you’re awesome!”

  • jeff

    go iiNet.

  • bobmail

    I feel sorry for the ISPs, because they are caught between a rock and hard place here. On one side, they are saying they aren’t going to help the rights holders, and on the other side they bitch and obstruct the legal process and make it very difficult to rights holders to get a fair day in court with copyright violators – because the ISPs are in the way.

    I am suspecting what will happen is that at some point, governments will start to pass laws that will define responsiblity in the use of an internet connection, and mandate certain types of reporting in the same manner that a phone company is obliged to turn over data on a court order. It should no longer be a subject of debate.

    Until then, the ISPs are fighting the “good fight” to protect freeloaders, and if they don’t they freeloaders turn on them and call them scum. Sucks to be an ISP.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      “I am suspecting what will happen is that at some point, governments will start to pass laws that will define responsiblity in the use of an internet connection, and mandate certain types of reporting in the same manner that a phone company is obliged to turn over data on a court order.”

      Governments have tried to pass such laws and it doesn’t dent filesharing any.

      You see, in order for the ISP to perform such reporting as you envision, we are looking at your metaphor turning into a paradigm where phone companies would have to record every conversation. And keep it.

      In short, your right of privacy as a normal citizen would cease to exist.

      Worse I’m afraid. Knowing this and assuming it would happen, filesharers to ever increasing degree turn to darknets. Meaning that the ISP can not monitor or record anything other than random gibberish, going at random to connections generated in ad-hoc networks.

      “Copyright” enforcement can not coexist with free speech or privacy. It is that simple. Then again, the only way to strip those rights online is to shut down the internet, As Iran and China have found.

      The ISP’s know this reality full well, and now have a pretty big problem because they are NOT protecting “freeloaders”. They are protecting their right not to be held accountable for matters over which they have – literally – NO control at all.

      • Anon

        Scary, I think you are believing that ‘free speech” in the real world is not subject to regulation. And that your privacy online won’t be surveilled in the long run. That’s funny you think that.

        You can’t cry “Fire!” in a crowded theatre, either, and you can bitch about free speech all day. If pirates insist this debate reduce to their privacy “rights” (what rights? visit a prison) versus the global digital economic marketplace retaining a sales integrity in the future, your “rights” for your own routine abuse of them won’t be worth the paper they are written on.

        Mark these words. You, yourself, are throwing rights way in your insistence to use them to mask internet malfeasance. It’s not much more complicated than that and this makes you shortsighted in my book, a book you’ll never pirate. :-)

        • Happy Artist

          I would pirate your book. I enjoy nonsensical comedy. I certainly wouldn’t buy it though.

          Just like music, you download it to see if it’s worth buying. If it’s good you give money to the creator. If it’s just garbage that some guy in a suit slapped together hoping to make a profit you delete it and be glad you didn’t get tricked into buying it.

        • Guest

          “If pirates insist this debate reduce to their privacy “rights” (what rights? visit a prison) versus the global digital economic marketplace retaining a sales integrity in the future”

          Once again, Anon lies through his teeth that filesharing is a threat to the global digital marketplace.

          When it isn’t.

          http://www.google dot com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=pirates+%22buy+more%22

          The efforts of you and your fellow MAFIAA gangsters will never get anywhere because you are dishonest fucks telling flimsy lies. And it is very, very, very easy to bring the truth to light against you. Just post a single fucking URL and BOOM – you’re K.O.’d.

          Hey, somebody want to call a doctor for Anon?

        • IDIOCRACY

          You make a mistake here, shouting “Fire” in a crowded theater is a good thing when there is really Fire, if there is not you might get sued for inflicting bodily harm as a result of the panic that followed upon your shouting “fire” if you did it on purpose to inflict this harm or could reasonably be aware of the risk to that.

          You will however not get sued for expressing your thoughts if you really thought there was a “Fire” but there wasn’t, maybe only for physical damages, however never for nonphysical damages.
          So yes freedom of speech should in a truly free country never be restricted.

          In other words, what you call freedom of speech to inflict harm, is not freedom of speech but slander or hate-speech or calling for rioting. That all has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
          However if you want to prevent this kind of situations from occurring (same as piracy) you need to put a piece of duct tape on everyones mouth. (control what someone CAN say). And that means loss of freedom, and will not be tolerated by lots of progressive governments.

          So dear Anon, it will never happen. your wish for copyright utopia is coming to an end soon.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “Scary, I think you are believing that ‘free speech” in the real world is not subject to regulation. And that your privacy online won’t be surveilled in the long run. That’s funny you think that.”

          I think nothing of the sort. I know that the surveillance you are dreaming of is an actual impossibility.

          If governments feel they need to keep tabs on the population the way you envision they have one choice; Shutting down the internet altogether.

          No, you certainly can not shout “Fire!” in a crowded theater. But there is no way save of lingual amputation, where you can prevent crowds of people walking around and whispering “Fire” silently to one another, face to face. Which is a very exact metaphor for how filesharing happens.

          You see, Anon, by the time your claims on what governments will and will not do makes any sense at all, we must all be living in a paradigm where any electronic communication is forbidden completely.

          And this is why we laugh at you. Because you claim that governments will declare war on the entire economy just in order to protect “copyright”. Rest assured that it will not. Not even China has been dumb enough to try.

          “…and this makes you shortsighted in my book, a book you’ll never pirate. :-)”

          I just did, Baghdad Bob. If you don’t want stuff “pirated” then don’t place key passages from it where all can see.

          It’s interesting to note that if the real world abided by your logic, Cars, Screwdrivers, Hammers, Blowtorches, Chisels, Paint thinner, Baking Soda, Sugar, pen, paper and the home computer would, in fact, be illegal.

          They are all massively used in the perpetration of crime, you see.

          Now would you like to troll some more or can we get out of “Anon-land” where King Canute successfully beats the tides into obedience, Saddam is triumphantly hoisting the Iraqi flag on the white house lawn, and where government is an omnipotent entity which has decided to abolish all technological progress since the invention of the wheel because “dual-use” allows for misuse.

        • aidanjt

          No more beating around the bush. Eat shit and die, you fascist piece of shit. You can have my civil liberties over my cold dead body, and I’ll be sure to put down as many of your jackbooted SS goons and plutocratic masters as I can before that happens.

          Why does this keep happening? Why is it that every hundred years or so some bunch of authoritarian thugs comes along and tries to exert their control over everyone? Every time it’s lead to war, death, mayhem, destruction, and wealth just totally gone up in smoke, just because a few assholes just can’t leave well enough alone… Wtf is wrong with our species?

      • commenter8

        The countermeasure is encryption. ISPs do not have the computational power to crack the encryption on every message sent or received by every subscriber. In early 2012 the FBI admitted in court that it could not crack the TrueCrypt encryption on the confiscated hard drive of a single suspect. No matter how hard the FBI worked, they could not crack it. And that’s only one person’s encrypted data. Once encryption is used, any reporting requirement becomes simply a useless waste of time and money.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          I know this. Handling sensitive information is what I do for a living.

          However, we will never be able to convince “Anon” of this. In his little world, encrypted communication will cease as soon as government finds it undesirable.

    • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

      ” am suspecting what will happen is that at some point, governments will start to pass laws that will define responsiblity in the use of an internet connection, and mandate certain types of reporting in the same manner that a phone company is obliged to turn over data on a court order. It should no longer be a subject of debate.

      This will definitely happen. Unfortunately it’s necessary since normal ethics does not exist on the Internet.

      • Anyone

        if there were ethics MegaUpload would still be running and not destroyed by the MAFIAA

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          A company with ethics would voluntarily ensure that the laws are not broken, not passively waiting for a court order.

        • Anyone

          Megaupload did not break any laws

        • Anon

          lol
          idiot.

        • Anyone

          so far the only ones to be ruled of having broken any laws in the Megaupload case were the authorities, with illegal spying, illegal warrant, illegal copying (the irony :D), etc.

        • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

          Can’t argue with that, calling someone an idiot makes all your statements correct, congratulations you’ve just found out the secret to debating. /sarcasm

        • IDIOCRACY

          what are you? no no don’t say…let me guess

        • MadAsASnake

          A company with ethics doesn’t go around trying to ruin the lives of it’s best customers. It’s bad business to.

        • Guest

          “A company with ethics would voluntarily ensure that the laws are not broken”

          They did. They complied with the DMCA and gave copyright holders direct access to MegaUpload’s database so they could delete infringing content directly.

          And what did it ultimately get Kim Dotcom? An illegal raid, an illegal arrest, and the illegal destruction of his business.

          That’s why nobody should even bother cooperating with the MAFIAA, ever. You can bend over backwards to please them and they will just use it as an opportunity to stab you in the back. iiNet has the correct idea.

          Oh, and let me clear something up. Since laws and ethics are two different things, and infact many laws are unethical, no ethical person would blindly and unquestioningly follow all the laws all of the time. Infact, following all laws all the time because “they’re the law!” is sociopath territory.

        • IDIOCRACY

          And because downloading is legal in many countries and seen as ethically right (duh thats why it is legal), this ISP would be stupid to do something they are not supposed or required to do. The court said they do not have to, that makes it effectively a law,… so how can they go against a law to do something YOU think is not ethical.

          I think your posting here on TF is not ethical, why do you go on spreading the one lie after the other, like the lies you stated over Rick being a CP lover…. you never answered why you forgot to mention that the reason he was against the prohibition of possession of certain digital content is that the law can be so easily misused.

          But I guess you will find out for yourself when a swat team knocks your door in and turn your apartment up-side down in search for CP that was put on your computer by a skilled P*do that did not want to store his gathered content at his own home. You will wonder how this could happen when you cannot proof it was not you but someone els that put it on your computer and you hear the judge say NTP you get 15 years in prison without the chance of parole

          And that is why privacy and Net Neutrality and freedom of speech are so important , to prevent you from going to jail for something you did not do…. get it now….. or need more?

          ok a little more: Just wait until you get sued for your statements on TF about pirate party leader in sweden, that was pure slander.

      • MadAsASnake

        What will happen is what already happened at iiNet. ISP’s are not the police. iiNet won’t even collect that data to hand over, nor is it required to. The solutions to the “Piracy” problem are all well within the hands of the Hollywood moguls if they’d care to implement them – pity they won’t.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        I’m surprised. You live in Sweden and know that everything related to traffic which the ISP’s can even see is already being registered.

        And as we pirates have said often and loudly, it does not affect us. You can’t reach the darknets that way. Or in any way save shutting down the internet.

        It will affect every innocent person whose privacy has been breached. but as a tool for fighting piracy, it’s still useless.

        So what do you mean “it will definitely happen”? You somehow missed FRA and the Data Retention directive being implemented in the country where you live?

        Did no one point out to you what it meant?

        You actually LIVE in a nation where everything Bobmail claims regarding surveillance has already come true. You have the cheat sheet in hand!

        As far as the privacy of ordinary people is concerned it’s a staggering blow. As far as “piracy” is concerned, it wasn’t even a speed bump

        Nejtillpirater, are you hell-bent on proving outrageous stupidity and ignorance with EVERY comment you make?

    • MadAsASnake

      Rightsholders are generally not known for playing fair. They sue anybody – printers, kids, dead people, and all with virtually no evidence. The ISP’s are protecting it’s customers from flagrant extortion. They learnt that the hard way in the UK after helping out ACS.

  • Pingback: Australian ISP Tells Entertainment Industry To Start Offering Better Service | WebProNews

  • Zex

    Wow, I want more ISPs like this in the USA.

  • http://www.xfilescabinet.com FoxMulder

    Awesome! Glad to see that some ISPs are standing up to the big media!

    Bit of a side note, there’s a typo in the bolded summary at the top — “… it can’t make any progress with righthsolders if…” — Sounds like the author had a lisp in my head.

  • Steve

    A big thumbs up from me. If I was in Australia I’d be swapping to iiNet to support them.

  • OneEyedWillie

    The problem is they eventually get physically threatened and then roll over. We need to break up the criminal organization call the Music and Entertainment industries for racketeering.

  • http://pfoct.blogspot.com/ James Knauer

    The coming meshnet revolution — clouds of always-on high-speed devices — will make ISPs much like broadcast TV is today: redundant and largely for the easily offended. China will lose this battle.

  • zwabbit

    i think all IPS should grow some balls and say the same thing. We are not here to Police the Internet.

  • AboutDamnTime

    I live in America, can I sign up for an account, just because?

    • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

      Find an exit node under their ISP, lol.

  • http://www.facebook.com/scottmoore.seattle Scott Moore

    Hollywood is fully of bullies. The fact that they release films in different countries but only make different language versions of films playable in country coded DVD players is criminal. They tell us basically what language we will view a film in depending on where we live.

    The fact that they treat their client base as criminal, and feel the need to spy on us, track us, arrest and fine us, speaks volumes about their business model.

    Hollywood is criminal, and in the US they have lobbyists who pass laws for these criminals. It’s a shameful business, full of rats.

  • JordanKratz

    When this 6 Strikes Shit goes Online here in Portland, Maine and with Slime Warner…………….well that is when I start calling my Lawyer Friends as well as the ACLU.I intend to attempt to make a Lawsuit against Slime Warner.If I can do that I will then attempt to Sue them in a Class Action Suit with the largest Money Figure possible.
    I am safe on a Non-Logging VPN but I should never have had to go that Route.I don’t worry for me but I do for all other people in my Nation.
    And if Legal Methods don’t work I am hoping that Anon or Some really smart IT folks can finally crack open the walls of MAFIAA so we can see all the Dirty Laundry.And do it to those ISP’s as well.
    You want to stop MAFIAA…………..Well one of the best things would be to just Educate the Masses and then we will gain Millions of Supporters.
    Fuck You MAFIAA !
    Fuck You Verizon, ATT, Comcast, Cablevision, and Slime Warner !
    2013 is not going to be a good year for you at all !

    • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

      “You want to stop MAFIAA…………..Well one of the best things would be to just Educate the Masses and then we will gain Millions of Supporters.”

      Or we educate the pirates on law and ethics.

      • Anon

        Jordan make the classic piracy mistake of standing on his own version of “the ethics”, ignoring that ethics are always personal, inherently narrowminded in both ways, and that all governments use law to underpin legal action and law enforcement. I hope he sues and the case gets the same kind of high profile Tenenbaum and Jammie and Beshara have received. This could not happen to a more ignorantly informed, poorly spoken or a more deserving kind of guy. We’ll wait and watch you publicly mass your “millions of supporters.” Right. lol

        • Liam JH

          Jordan did not mention ethics – that was Nej and we have all seen his ‘ethical’ stance.
          Thought going round in my head whilst having a nice menthol bath (cold/man flu).
          The so called ‘Piracy’ you are so against is little more than an online library, for non profit (in the most).
          In the UK we have Public Libraries – these are government funded and loan movies, books and music to the general public at large, who may or may not copy the item – using the logic you and Nej have posed the Government are facilitating ‘Piracy’ and making money from it with ‘late penalties’. Using the same twisted logic all libraries must be shut down as they are depositories for potential copyright theft.
          If that where the case in the UK – more than a million people would protest.

        • Anon

          Comparing government supported free book lending to online digital piracy of music and movies? You DO have the flu. rest up. :-)

        • Liam JH

          not just free books, but current dvd releases and cd’s. The principal is the same regardless. A digital product is a copy, nothing more I download movies – I buy bluray.

        • Guest

          Yeah, people can get free music, movies, and books from a library.

          Whereas with piracy, people can get free music, movies, and books.

          It’s totally different.

        • IDIOCRACY

          Apparently the think otherwise in the government of for example the Netherlands.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “Comparing government supported free book lending to online digital piracy of music and movies? You DO have the flu. rest up. :-)”

          Apparently you haven’t read about the reasoning behind a library – nor how the publishing industry did indeed fight libraries the exact same way you people are now trying to fight the next tide.

          Good luck on that. And while you do, go read some history and social science. It may do some good for your argumentation.

        • IDIOCRACY

          That was NTP, and because downloading is legal in a lot of countries, this cannot be unethical to them, the mistake was certainly not a Pirate mistake, a pirate mistake is trying to board a schip filled with marines :P

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Actually there is a different between ethics and law. It was illegal to question the nazi party in Germany. Still makes it ethical.

          Filesharing is considered ethical by a great many and will continue to be seen as ethical even in nations where the law states otherwise.

          And that brings us to Martin Luther King Jr.s little statement regarding the obligations regarding just vs unjust laws.

        • JordanKratz

          I did not mention Ethics.I have my position which I could of made a Big Comment on the Ethics of Hollywood blah blah blah.
          I made a Stand.I did not go to see The Hobbit.I even stated how much I love Tolkien and how I still have my original paperback……………….and still I did not give my Cash to Hollywood.
          I will buy stuff from those who do not do the kinds of “Ethics” that we see coming from the MAFIAA.
          I have lots of Legal Stuff I have bought and do Buy in my home.MAFIAA wore out my welcome.

        • IDIOCRACY

          @scary,

          Yeah I know, but I said it the other way around, if it is legal it must be ethical there too otherwise they would make it illegal and they don’t out of ethical perspective.

          However as you say when it is illegal, that does not mean it is by definition unethical to do…..

          But hey who cares now…. it is late…

      • Anyone

        if the MAFIAA would follow laws and ethics we wouldn’t be in this mess

      • Fredrika

        > “Or we educate the pirates on law and ethics.”

        You mean educate them on the fact that society has no proven need for today’s copyright law, and that it’s unethical to demand a legislative monopoly under those circumstances, or that it should be enforced?

        Pirates are already fully aware of those facts regarding law and ethics.

        • Anon

          Yes, Fredrika. if you take the pirate stand it actually IS your responsibility to educate society. And by the way, when you show up to argue this in a venue that actually has influence–if you ever do– law matters. Your ethics don’t. Just explain it to the judge. I’m sure they’ll appreciate your “facts.” lol

        • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

          What laws? Please site.

        • Anon

          “Cite” As in citation.
          And copyright law is everywhere.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          I see a trend here. You try to argue law, we inform you how the law works and that it does not support your wild statements.

          And then you turn to ethics. We demonstrate you have no moral ground to stand on…and then you go back to claiming law will prevail as interpreted by you. Rinse and repeat.

          A hint for you, my dear Anon. In “Anon-land” all things may go in circles. In the real world, logic doesn’t.

        • Guest

          I wonder how Anon can look at the hundreds of millions of people committing copyright infringement every day and then say “law matters”.

          Well, copyright law doesn’t, that’s for absolutely fucking sure.

        • IDIOCRACY

          For influencing the Law matters, you should be member of the Pirate party if you want to do this. Not in court, there you only defend against or attack others using the existing law, like the ones in the Netherlands where downloading is perfectly legal.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Oh, we do.

          Even better, we take it to the legislative bodies and get stuff like SOPA, PIPA and ACTA tossed out and sunk.

      • Who

        if you live in the US

        httpwww.copyright.govdocs2265_stat.html

        “17 U.S.C., Chapter 5. Infringement is a crime ONLY where it is done “willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain”

        “Or we educate the pirates on law and ethics”
        what this about law educating again?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu5JdmsLWVk

        • Anon

          “To save the expense” Illegal file bartering has been held to be a commercial use, cutting off the defense of fair use in the U.S.: “…[C]ommercial use is demonstrated by a showing that repeated and exploitative unauthorized copies of copyrighted works were made to save the expense of purchasing authorized copies.” A&M Records, Inc. et al v. Napster, Inc., 239 F.3d 1004 (9th Cir. 2001), at 1014.”

        • Anon

          From a 2001 Napster decision that still stands until this day. You see? It IS a crime. WHO is likely not old enough to remember. :-)

        • Who

          um…SHIT FOR BRAINS! the law I quoted is revised 2007. also “file bartering” “Bartering” occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging
          money.
          witch has nothing to do with “commercial gain”

        • Anon

          Now you are just being a willful moron. The “commercial gain” you refer to is long established as “to save the expanse” the basis of the Napster decision. The 2007 revision is BASED on the established notion that to escape paying is inherently a commercial gain. Don’t you go to the legal seminars about this stuff at the various lawschools? No? Then what are you posting erroneous crap for?

          Really, people, listen.

          If you want to be taken seriously you have to know your law, you have to understand how precedent influences subsequent revision, and you have to enter with something a bit more educated than “shit for brains.”

          However, “aargh matey” is still considered acceptable discourse. ;-)

        • Who

          no your the moron. I have lawyer friends that will tell you AND show you other wise.

        • Anon

          It’s “you’re”. A contraction of you and are.
          And i rest my case. lol

        • jimmy671

          You’re not only a TROLL,but a spelling Police man/woman.

          And I rest MY case.

        • Fr3d

          It’s I not i. It’s the norm.
          The spell police needs a spell checker!
          And I rest my case.

        • Who

          it sound more like you are one of the many intellectual property rights lawyer’s that practice LAW UNLAWFULLY.

        • Who

          “2007 revision is BASED on the established notion that to escape paying is inherently a commercial gain”

          um…no retard-o. “gain” means acquire. go back to school.

        • Who

          btw something else I forgot to add is that “commercial gain” ALSO implies that you profit off of something.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          You are quoting a 2001 precedence case, Who is quoting a law revision from 2007.

          We see indeed. Does time in “Anon-land” run backwards? Or is this yet one more example of the “law” being what you personally think it ought to be at the moment?

      • JordanKratz

        I have no problem at all buying Indie Stuff which is Non-Hollywood nor do I have a problem buying Local Stuff to Support the Local Artists.
        Hollywood is something I would rather not Support !

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Since your education has so far been one where by logical extension Rosa Parks should quietly have done her jail time and Mandela should have kept rotting in a prison run under Apartheid, I think very few would acknowledge that you are in any position to teach anyone about the differences inherent between “ethics” and “law”.

        Arguing for a reversal of burden of proof doesn’t exactly make your genius shine in either area. But you have.

      • Guest

        Which is what, Nej? Home taping is killing music? Yeah, that worked wonders with my parents’ generation. What’re you going to say next? Saving to disk is illegal? Having a computer is illegal? Password protection is illegal?

        Did you forget to breathe on Daddy Pelouzey’s industry phallus again? Your brain damage is showing!

  • http://twitter.com/FilmRic FilmRic

    Keep walking the talk iiNet! Stand as an example for others! We here in the states support you!

  • Anon

    There is a wonderful blogpost on the TORProject blog today that explains how the FBI uses and gets inside TOR and that ends with “Jurisdictional arbitrage is alive and well in the world.” Wow. That’s perfect. I could not have expressed this growing reality as eloquently.

    But for those out there still laboring under the belief that privacy rights will trump internet malfeasance, I say this. They are closing in on you. It’s taken 10 years so far because legislators are being so respectful of your privacy, and the courts like to take baby steps, that’s all good.

    But in the past year the conversation has turned from “freedom to copy” to using VPN’s, have you noticed? Read and learn. Catch up with the rest of us. And stop squandering our rights online for a selfish free copy of a movie. Assholes.

    • Who
      • Anon

        Clever and erudite retort, Who. Keep posting.
        You are almost up there with Rick Falkvinge.

    • Guess

      It doesn’t matter if i download 1 movie or 1000 movies. The content will always be there drm free. We only use vpns because our isps don’t care to be bullied and say here’s all of the info of the paying customer..

    • commenter8
    • Anon Sucks VPN Ball Sack

      VPNs are Anon Kryptonite. Awesome.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        You imply “Anon” is some form of superman. Fact and logic is like cyanide to that brand of low-grade troll.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      “But for those out there still laboring under the belief that privacy rights will trump internet malfeasance, I say this…”

      What you say is irrelevant. If civil rights take a beating because of semi-communistic practices in the private sector it is a tragedy.

      However, what will trump is not “privacy concerns” but science and technology. Government, no matter how bad it gets, will have one of two options. Internet or No Internet.

      In the former, people will have privacy, irrespective of what government thinks about the issue. Go ask any expert and they may even be kind enough to show you the proof of this.

      “And stop squandering our rights online for a selfish free copy of a movie.”

      In short you still propose that when a man beats seven kinds of shit out of the wife, it is her fault for being “uppity”. Thank you again, Dear “Anon”, for making that clear to us.

      • IDIOCRACY

        “semi-communistic practices”
        I have to correct you here scary, if it were communistic practices, they would be pro sharing, because in communism everything is from everybody :P

        Semi-fascistic it is…. Fixed it for you, no thanks hehe but for the rest you’re right

  • http://www.postlinearity.com gregorylent

    would read it if i could .. grey on black doesn’t make that possible for me

  • PseudoChris

    rightholders*

    FTFY

  • rex freeway

    As soon as Hollywood puts out something original maybe they would have a leg to stand on. Everything is a re packaged, re run of and old movie. They dont even try anymore

    • Guess

      I seen a old movie re-published in blu-ray yesterday at a store. It was $30 and came with a movie ticket to the same film.

  • Chazmizta

    High five iiNet!!

  • MadAsASnake

    Its hardly surprising. They took iiNet to court as a small fry “example”, and failed. After setting the attack dogs off in that manner, do they really expect more co-operation? iiNet has a strong hand, lets hope they keep playing it well.

  • 123

    If I was in Asutralia I would change my ISP in favor of iiNet.

  • Nokterian

    And in the netherlands BREIN is holding the upper hand and the judge just agree with everything they say. Our ISP’s are still going to fight for it. It is just stupid.

  • http://gear-mentation.myopenid.com/ Gear Mentation

    Okay, say the average high quality TV show costs 40 million to produce (even Game of Thrones only cost 55 million and most would be much less expensive). And say the show is watched, on average, by 5 million viewers. So it makes a profit at 10 dollars per person PER SEASON. So, that is a profit of 10 million. So if you paid a flat rate of 30 dollars a month in addition to your internet connection fee, you should get for that money about 36 high quality TV shows a year. So, for the sake of the argument, say it costs double what I said, and there are all the overhead costs yada yada blah. So, let’s say you only get 15 new high quality TV shows a year for your 30/month subscription. That plus reruns is sufficient TV. So, by rights, we should get all our media except movies and tunes for 30 dollars a month.

    Let’s say the average Hollywood movie costs 100 million to produce. And say you want to watch 10 new movies a month. That’s about 12 billion a year for the 10 Hollywood blockbusters per month. So let’s add to that about 30 billion for the rest of the 600 movies produced a year. So 42 billion a year to produce movies. Currently, people go to the movies about 4 times a year in the USA, and there are about 300 million people in the USA. If each currently pays 10 dollars that’s 12 billion from the theater, but some of that doesn’t go back to the producers. So let’s say they only get 5 billion of that, we need to account for 37 billion. That would be about 45 a month for each cable subscriber in the USA (if I got the math right), but of course cable is only part of it. Let’s say for movies you’d have to pay about $20 dollars a month. I really think that’s overestimated though. So, $50/mo max you should be paying for TV and movies each year.

    Add to that 3,000 tunes for 10 cents each (what I consider the correct price), and you get a maximum of $1260 a year, plus the cost of internet at $30/mo is $1620 per year, the max you should have to pay ever.

    I think most or all of these figures are way at the high end. In actual fact, I would take a guess that we should get all our media and internet needs met for $80 per month.

    Can you guys help with these figures?

  • LJW

    You go girl! I can’t understand why the ISPs/technology industry doesn’t just tell the MPAA and RIAA to live without computers and the Internet if it causes them so much pain! Just go back to selling 8-tracks. No one will want to pirate those!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=684647593 facebook-684647593

    Makes me wish I lived in Australia…

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.abernathy.7186 David Abernathy

    iiNet, Please come to the United States!!!! Comcast and AT&T are evil bastards!!!

  • hbuck67

    Audio and video piracy has never hurt any artist. The only victims in these cases are the poor people the lawyers go after. RIAA and MIAA cost the entertainment industry far more than piracy ever will and they have made lawyers very rich in the process.

  • Darkwinh

    This is the right move. The reality is that a lot of content is priced according to the marketing and medium licensing. When I was looking into developing for N64. A developer would get $3-4 per copy sold on a $70 to $100 title. The rest of the pie was publishing, distribution ,marketing and licensing of security/codec technology. Now movie/game/music publishers are moving to online sales models the logistics and publishing costs have moved to a fraction of the physical media costs yet sale prices are the same one does have to question and rally against clear profiteering. Add to this moves to stop reselling of purchased titles and profiteering of Australian customers (15 – 20%) compared to US customers and the publishing wonder why we get angry and seek redress through alternative distribution means.
    The reality is I pay for media but I seek value. If media/entertainment was priced closer to the true production costs and less on the marketing costs more copies would be sold of a greater variety of titles

  • Dos

    I need to move back to iiNet

  • http://twitter.com/krozareq krozareq

    The Aussie MPAA must be idiots. In much of the world Hollywood has ISPs by the balls because their primary business is being a Hollywood entertainment provider.

    You don’t ask them to do anything. You make them financially dependent on you.

  • D

    NICE! Glad to hear that an ISP is telling the industry to piss off, and that the government of a major nation isn’t backing down and actually has the balls to tell it like it is. For too long the entertainment industry has tried to blame anybody but themselves for their failing business model, and it is nice to hear someone actually speak to this.

    Like many of us, i envisioned the fall of the standard model ever since the rise of the internet, and wondered how long it would be before they give up on this system, the flaws of which have been exploited by the information age. Copyright is dead. Deal with it and adapt or go the way of the dinosaur.

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  • steve

    This is great. We need to support these ISP’s with our money. I encourage everyone within their grid to use their service from now on to show ,not only that they have our support, but to show other ISP’s that they will lose money by bowing to the copyright cartel.

  • Michael Blackburn

    If only VirginMedia could do that. All the hoops I had to jump through just to grab an NZB (before the site shut down :( ) or grab a torrent file. All my downloading is done through SSL and a VPN now – just in case they’re logging it for “the man”. Christ, I’m bloody paranoid …

    • L2TP

      You are wise to use a VPN. A VPN is an extension of what an ISP should be. An ISP should not be Internet Police. And a VPN should not keep connection logs. I use two VPNs. A double tunnel. Use L2TP first, then OpenVPN second. Works like a charm.

  • loteq

    this is a rare site, if i lived there then i would be signing strait up to them, sadly i live in the uk, which is slowly been bullied into the way of the USA

  • Syborg

    The DSL network & iinet can go shove their 200k internet speed up their infested asses. I’ve been a happy cable customer for 2 years and haven’t looked back.

  • John

    iinet are also the only ISP I’ve had in Australia that have delivered on their speed promises.

  • ozzie pride

    price for media in retail is disgusting. we will fight for a watching free internet in Australia.

  • Cutter Knox

    These guys should be opening offices in every major city they’d make a mint so long as they keep doing this.

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  • Simon W

    Been with iinet since Michael Malone offered $40 500mb dial up mini-accounts. Love this ISP and they love their customers. This story just cements the fact I will never change ISP until the day I die.

  • Andyman

    I want iiNet as my ISP!

  • rui

    Can I get iiNet in Germany?

  • http://www.facebook.com/tarwinss Tarwin Stroh-Spijer

    iiNet, wish I could get you from America :P (used to be a happy ozzie iiNet kid!)

  • Sleepi

    Hi ho, hi ho, off to iiNet i go…

  • wootwoot

    fuck hollywood, ima gona DL a shit load of movies, then burn them on DVD’s the randomly put them in mail boxes

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  • Yourname

    In Response to Adam Daniel John Thompson

    I have already filled up 7 2tb drives of movies,tv shows,games ect. and ive received Only One infringement letter From Tpg.. The Letter contained “NO” information relating to what i had downloaded. Just That i had been busted downloading One File. Nowdays i rent proxys to cover my tracks,

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  • LOVELESBIANS

    http://www.scenetime.com is open for registration from the 24th of December till the 1st of January

  • Over There

    Good for you iiNet, If you did business in the US I’d be a customer. I hope others follow your lead.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7MSR632KGMFQFYSQAJTJ3KJCSM Mark Kram

    iiNet was taken to court by AFACT because AFACT believed that iiNet didn’t have the funds for a drawn-out court battle. AFACT deliberately didn’t take on Telstra because AFACT recognized that Telstra could go “dirty” in court.

    What AFACT didn’t realize was the financial (and in some cases legal support) iiNet received from competitors (like Telstra and Optus). This is why iiNet was able to survive. It was in everyone’s best interest to band together and fight this.

    In regards to BitTorrent speed, Telstra is well known to throttle of around 34% of Torrent traffic, based on an article I read before.

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  • sijian405
  • Anon

    i think the issue causing alot of the piracy is the pettiness between people who want the contend distributed probably and those who want exclusive licenses. look what keeps happening to netflix they are repeatedly having to remove content do to the most asinine and petty contract bickering. so people keep advocating gaining legal access while at the same time screwing over the legal service providers every chance they get trying to revoke change or up charge the licenses. basically people are used to getting stuff from their favorite service something changes in the liscense and instead of paying the 10 – 20 dollars to buy the DVD people simply say hulu doesent have it netflix doesent have it. looks like it is not available? and straight to the pirate bay they go

  • Bubba

    I like CHeese on Toast

  • http://silverfang77.tumblr.com/ Silver Fang

    I wish their were an ISP like iiNet in the USA. Knowing that our ISPs are going to be monitoring our usage is downright creepy. I wonder, if all websites did switch to HTTPS, would that make it harder for ISPs to spy on users?

  • Yourname

    In Reply to thEGA.

    I Use Residential Adsl2+ Thats corrent. Always on. We Also Dont use Telstra at work. oh wait its always on and super fast.

    Go Like some more telsra. They Might own the phone network, but its an old pots netowrk and needs to be destroyed, Hence the nbn . Which imo is still 50 years to late.

  • iiNet!

    iiNet customer for 5 years now and love it! I live about 900 metres from the exchange and I get a solid 2MB+/sec. I’ve been following this case for years and I am glad to see they are still winning! Piss off big hollywood fatcats trying to ca$h in more

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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