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Lawyer Refuses to Tell Court How Profitable BitTorrent Settlements Are

Last month a lawyer was ordered by a judge to reveal how much money he has received from threatening to sue alleged BitTorrent users. The lawyer, Ira M. Siegel, missed the court’s deadline and even then failed to answer fully as required. After describing the EFF as a group wanting “freedom from the tyranny of having to pay for content,” his eventual response began with a surprising attack on an anti-copyright troll blogger.

While there are countless lawsuits being filed in the U.S. targeting alleged BitTorrent users, at the moment On The Cheap, LLC vs Does 1-5011 is generating particular interest.

The case is one of the porn-based BitTorrent lawsuits filed late last year by Ira M. Siegel using evidence from the Copyright Enforcement Group, ostensibly to ‘protect’ the work entitled Danielle Staub Raw – a sex tape featuring reality show star Danielle Staub.

The case, filed in the northern district of California, has piqued the judge’s attention on several fronts, no doubt in part due to the involvement of the EFF.

At a hearing late August, Judge Bernard Zimmerman expressed unhappiness with the lack of progress in the case, as well as the possibility that the case is really just a fishing scheme to get money. Siegel took umbrage at the suggestion, and went on to lambast the EFF as wanting “freedom from the tyranny of having to pay for content.”

The jurisdiction issue was another sticking point. Judge Zimmerman had trouble with Siegel’s claims that being in a BitTorrent swarm subjects people to nationwide jurisdiction. There was also concern stemming from the Plaintiff and the lawyer being based in southern California, while filing in northern California.

At the end of the hearing the Judge made an order requiring the presentation of several items of information including details of any settlements paid (the previous week Siegel had dismissed 68 defendants with prejudice, indicating a settlement), copies of all settlement demands sent out, details of the distribution of the work, and the hiring of the Copyright Enforcement Group.

Zimmerman’s concern; that courts are being used as collections agencies.

The response to this motion was due by the end of August but not only did Siegel miss the deadline by filing late, he failed to respond as required, and refused outright to reveal how much he has received in settlements. Furthermore, he began his lengthy response with a surprising attack on blogger Sophisticated Jane Doe, a defendant from another case who posts on the FightCopyrightTrolls.com blog.

Sophisticated Jane Doe has been covering developments in the current case and Siegel is clearly unhappy with that. He describes Jane Doe as someone “who wants to see roadblocks in the way of copyright enforcement” and takes issue with ‘her’ (Siegel points out that sex should not be taken for granted) use of terms and phrases such as “Troll”, “he extorted”, “most sinister” and references to “shameless” honeypot schemes.

“This is brought to the Court’s attention because it further illustrates that with which we are dealing: people pirating copyrighted works and otherwise engaging in tortious activity behind what they hope is the shield of anonymous IP addresses and the hurdles and expenses to which a copyright owner must go to uncover their identities,” Siegel writes.

Ironically, while Siegel criticizes FightCopyrightTrolls for having an anonymous WHOIS protected domain, Copyright Enforcement Group, the company Siegel works with in these cases, protects its domain in exactly the same manner.

Despite the attack, Sophisticated Jane Doe is pleased with the attention.

“Have you ever heard about [the] Streisand Effect, Mr. Siegel? The sole reason of my fight is to make sure my (and other victims’) side of the story is heard by judges, not to influence them, but to make sure their decisions are fair and balanced,” she writes in response.

“Now I have a huge helping hand from the least expected player: a troll! Thank you Mr. Siegel! Given the significance of this help, I even forgive you for the veiled threats you’ve extended towards me. I’m immune against threats, you should have known it if you read this blog carefully.”

Interestingly, according to Robert Cashman, a Texas lawyer defending dozens of individuals affected by these mass BitTorrent lawsuits, the late filing of a response in the case may have been deliberate.

“The question I keep asking myself is 1) was the late submission of a reply a purposeful attempt by Ira Siegel to give Judge Zimmerman a pretext to dismiss the case on grounds such as failing to properly respond?

“And, 2) would Siegel be willing to throw this case and risk it being dismissed in order to shield from the court how much money his client has made from settlements?” Cashman writes.

“In sum, there is a lot that is going on in these cases, and some days it feels more like drama, deception, and posturing rather than discussing the case on its merits. Judge Zimmerman appears to be trying to remedy this,” notes Cashman.

“While we will now wait and see if and how Judge Zimmerman responds to what he will no doubt see as blatant disregard to his order, I expect that Siegel’s latest move will result in a dismissal of his case. Perhaps it will even create some ripples in his other cases as well,” Cashman concludes.

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  • Bakaouji

    “Zimmerman’s concern; that courts are being used as collections agencies.”
    Sad days >.<

  • Lulz

    Don’t dismiss… just jail the lawyer.

    • Anonymous

      Definitely jail the lawyer for contempt of court. If I had chose to facilitate my actions in such a way as this I would be jailed and fined up to $10,000 almost immediately as the deadline passed. Furthermore constant verbal attacks of people not listed in this case would also be another contempt charge. This guy should be doing 20 days behind bars, paying a $20,000 fine, plus covering all court costs for the defendant when the case is dismissed. We all know if won’t go this way though. He’ll probably only get a tongue lashing and still win, as he has the copyright group behind him.

      • http://twitter.com/betterhayden betterhayden

        Whether he should be jailed or not for contempt of court is one thing but the judge asking for how much the attorney was paid by the client which is covered under attorney-client privilege. So, unless you want the precedence set that the judge can compel an attorney to break privilege by threatening contempt court, what he did was possibly in the wrong.

        • Lulz

          The defendants (or, those dismissed with prejudice) are not clients of the plaintiff’s lawyer.

        • C—–

          Er, no. The judge didn’t ask how much the lawyer’s fees were, but how much the client was making from threatening to sue (i.e., how many people had settled, and for how much), which is -not- covered by attorney-client privilege.

          *insert Fry’s face* Not sure if trolling or did not RTFA.

        • C—–

          Er, no. The judge didn’t ask how much the lawyer’s fees were, but how much the client was making from threatening to sue (i.e., how many people had settled, and for how much), which is -not- covered by attorney-client privilege.

          *insert Fry’s face* Not sure if trolling or did not RTFA.

        • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

          Also judge did not ask to reveal particular defendants, he asked for total amount only. I don’t see how it can be possibly fall under any non-disclosure clauses.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Freeda-Weed/100001728244194 Freeda Weed

          Wrong! See below for further details………

        • Anonymous

          There are ways to keep from having to release that information. That particular privilege must first be invoked verbally or in writing. Also there are motions and filings that can be made to make disobeying that Judges order legal. This person failed to do either. Also, a judge can trump that privilege in times when he thinks the court is being abused, as long as what ever he learns stays private and doesn’t influence his decision.

    • Zzzz

      Andrew Crosslry tried to dismiss a similar case in the UK when the judge asked too many awkward questions and didn’t turn up in court.
      The judge refused to drop the cases, demanded that Crossley attent to answer for himself then stuck him with all the defendents expences then reported him for misconduct.

      He’s now unemployed and bankrupt, happy days.

    • Gufsfsest

      isnt it more fair if the person just pay for regular price of the product if they getting sued instead thousand of dollar?

      cause basically they just watch without spending a dime, so for their consequence they have to paid for what they watch. It not like they go out and make profit from that particular product for self gain profit.

      just like a speeding ticket, people know that speeding can cause another person life and even their own, but they still do it anyway, but how they get fine is a tottally different from sharing work,

      pay couple hundred buck and it all over…

      so all this lawyer trying make argue that people life is not important enough then money?

      • Henrik Eriksson

        I dont know the details of the laws in the US, but in sweden, the big crime is sharing the files, not downloading them. Sharing the files means that more people will get the same file, and by the faulty logic they use, loose sales more than your own because of your actions. That is basically what you pay for.
        Well, thats the basics of it anyway.

      • http://otester.myopenid.com/ PiRat

        They shouldn’t pay anything.

        IPR is mafia-ism (or mafiaa-ism, hehe).

  • Mr.Afghanistan

    Lawyer PAWNED hahahaha :P

  • http://twitter.com/AlyssaBlindy Alyssa Blindy

    I hope people soon realize how deceptive the settlement schemes really are. They are only to get money, and people don’t seem to get it completely. Hopefully, with this judge’s good observations, it will change.

    • Ven

      I see these schemes as a good thing, unfortunate as they may be for some people. Eventually it will all lead to some entirely crooked lawyer/firm (not pointing fingers at anyone specifically… yet) will get screwed to the wall just like ACS was in the U.K. for sending scam letters.

      Terrible garbage to be running through our court system, but hopefully the end result is that we will get some solid precedent set on IP addresses not being enough evidence to bring suit against.

    • Zzzz

      “I hope people soon realize how deceptive the settlement schemes really are.”
      We did in the UK at least and the lawyer involved, Andrew Crossley, got a spanking from the law society and went bankrupt.

  • http://Twitter.com/elisaknockout Elisa ? Knockout™

    Bahahaha sounds like someones hiding something. :P

  • http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock

    Pirates refuse to tell world how profitable bittorrent sites are.

    • Noah C.

      BitTorrent sites are strictly for copyrighted material. There’s plenty of public domain material ThePirateBay for you to torrentin which much of it I DO download, just so I can hope that someone sues my ass so I can fuck them up for suing me for the wrong reasons.

      As for BitTorrent sites, they make money off of advertising, like any other site on the web. In no way is that illegal. I fail to see the correlation between the BitTorrent site making money off of legitimate advertisements and “Copyright Lawsuits,” a.k.a., extortion.

      As for this, he’s a fucking lawyer. He should obey the god damned law when a judge orders him to give information.

    • Trespass

      The sites are very valuable to me, but other than the revenue they generate from advertising, how are they making these huge profits that you are intimating? Kickbacks? From whom? Certainly not from the labels or the government. The sites I use are free, although I have donated to a couple to help them with their costs, and to show my appreciation for their service.

      Please enlighten me as to how anyone running a bittorrent site can become wealthy and, hell, I may start one myself… I’m talking very wealthy…. Explain, please, because advertising may pay the bills, but I seriously doubt it makes the site hugely profitable.

    • Jack’s father

      You son, are most stupid, as your lack of intelligent comment showcases. In other news, water is wet.

      Also, what does ‘piracy’ have to do with file sharing?

    • Jack’s father

      You son, are most stupid, as your lack of intelligent comment showcases. In other news, water is wet.

      Also, what does ‘piracy’ have to do with file sharing?

    • An Unwashed Heathen

      O rly?

      Perhaps you’d like to disclose how profitable copywrong trolling is?

    • Guest101

      No, that sort of information is widely available – they’re really not very profitable. Now, the MAFIAA sometimes disbelieves that information, but e.g. the pirate bay barely breaks even.

    • Guest101

      No, that sort of information is widely available – they’re really not very profitable. Now, the MAFIAA sometimes disbelieves that information, but e.g. the pirate bay barely breaks even.

    • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

      It’s common knowledge: 58 billion dollars.

    • Piratescum

      It is actually quite profitable or else new torrent and warez sites wouldn’t be springing up all over the place all the time. Piracy has become a huge money making business. One just needs to hang around the various pirate webmasters forums to get a good idea of how profitable it really is.

      • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

        I do EXACTLY that ^ and can testify that we’re ALL unpaid volunteers who give our time, our effort and CARING into sharing.

        What exactly do you do troll?
        Whoa is that Jack Murdock’s shit on your dick maybe?

        • Rob8gaycake

          Rob is used to the taste of shit though because he loves to suck gay dick.

      • YoureAWanker

        Perhaps they spring up “all over the place all the time” because file sharing isn’t a crime in most places where they are operating out of. As long as it’s not done for profit. Thus they’re able to legally operate in various places. In addition to that, most intelligent people use things like Adblock Plus to block ads, I always scratched my head when people would say TPB or this site or that site have ads all over the place. I didn’t even know that because I use Adblock Plus. And there’s nothing wrong with AdSense or something similar on a site either way. Television has ads. Magazines have ads. I doubt they pull in a fortune from AdSense anyway, maybe just enough to cover operating cost (if that).

        One just needs to pull their head out of their ass (that would be you, fyi) to get a good idea of how full of sh*t they really are. Maybe when you do that, you can show Jack how to do the same.

    • Zzzz

      Surely even the rotting remnants of your festering brain can’t actually think that’s relevant.

    • YoureAWanker

      Idiots refuse to keep their comments related to the article in order to continue spewing their rhetoric. [shrugs] And the world keeps turning.

    • http://goo.gl/bFts Needlez

      Jack seriously? Do I have to go there again with you. It’s been a long time since we last talked. And I’d of thought by now you’d have gotten a brain and done some looking into things. First off just because a site is profitable doesn’t mean it’s doing anything illegal. Second not all bittorrent sites make a profit. Most DON’T! You have to think of it this way they have to pay for the site, for the servers, for all the expenses and the only way to make back that money is through advertising. Which isn’t illegal. It’s like if I made a site that had nothing but google advertisements on it and one link to a video which I posted. Is there anything illegal in that? NO. simple point blank, now, I’d have to pay for all my expenses which would put me negative $100 – $1000 dollars. So the only way to pay for it is through advertising. Which is legal. So I’d make some money back, but still probably wouldn’t profit at all. Most sites that do profit only profit because they ask for donations. And then in turn, turn around and spend those donations to make the site better, have better/ less downtime. Or in our case right now, to pay off legal disputes because some person said that the site was illegal, even though the court ruled in the sites favor. They may still have to pay a hefty legal fine for the lawyers and court costs. Now then, Jack, as I’m sure you going to try to pick apart and reword my writing here. I’m going to let you in on a little piece of advice. Please do your homework before you sit there and try to argue with someone who has done these things and has looked into this kind of stuff for quite a while. Thank you have a nice day.

      • Anon2

        @Needlez

        You did not reply to Jack. You merely produced an adolescent rant with no proof, data, or figures to back it up.

        FACT: The Pirate Bay owners have refused to disclose the site’s revenues during the lawsuit that hit them recently.

        FACT: some torrent / Warez websites charge for membership – ergo, revenues

        FACT: most torrent / Warez websites have advertising – ergo, revenues

        The amount of money being made, of course, is a matter of discussion. In the TPB lawsuit, figures ranging from being thrown back and forth ranged, at one point, between roughly 80000 euros p/year (claimed by the defendants / freetards) and 1 million euros p/year (claimed by the prosecution / corporate laywers):

        http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sverige/article417153/Forsvaret-verksamheten-ar-laglig.html

        Since we can’t really trust either side, we can only make an estimate somewhere between those figures. In any case, that’s quite a bit of money floating around.

        Now, I’m pretty sure not all torrent sites make a profit, but if there wasn’t money to be made, there wouldn’t be so many dodgy sites springing up every other month with advertised torrent links.

        It’s a stolen media/content gold rush. Not everyone is making money, but it is safe to assume some certainly do.

        Of course, since prosecuted pirates so far have refused to disclose these details (as far as I know), we’re still a bit in the dark. We can only deduce and make estimates based on the data that has surfaced so far and on web trends.

        But the signs are pretty visible, much like the non-disclosed profitability of corporate trolls’ lawsuits.

        Now, please go back to school and learn to discuss a subject with a minimum of humility and intellectual honesty.

        YOU have a nice day.

        • Guest771

          You’re just plain lying – the pirate bay disclosed their (meagre, for the scale and bandwidth of the site, around SEK725000 p.a. ) income. They aren’t really turning a profit, just making enough to keep the search engine servers going. The MAFIAA scum merely don’t believe their figures.

          http://sydsvenskan.se/sverige/article417153/Forsvaret-verksamheten-ar-laglig.html

        • I’m Reasonable

          “FACT: some torrent / Warez websites charge for membership – ergo, revenues”

          Really? Which ones? And who would be stupid enough to pay for such a site when there are literally hundreds out there that cost nothing at all? I honestly don’t believe there are a whole lot of file sharers that would tolerate such a site. As hard as it is to believe, monetarily profiting from copyrighted works you do not own goes against the moral code of the vast majority of file sharers out there. For them, it is about freely sharing culture for the common good, something they feel noble about. When you think about it, the copyright industry is really no better than the warez sites that charge for membership. All both care about is taking peoples money, even when it means breaking all the rules. It’s really hard to respect the pro-copyright brigade when they keep acting as blatantly disrespectful as they do. It is probably why a lot of folks feel their sharing is justifiable.

          “FACT: most torrent / Warez websites have advertising – ergo, revenues”

          Revenues does not equal profit. This is why a lot of sites rely on donations from members. It is the only way to come up with enough cash to pay the bills. Are any of them profiting? I don’t know, and I doubt you do either. I’d say it is a good bet that any surplus would go towards the following months bills though. Running a torrent site isn’t cheap.

        • Johnny Cash

          I dont know why people say they dont make any profits from warez/torrent sites. I used to own a warez site once and could easily make around $150-200 profit from it every month after paying for the VPS rental fees. Selling adspots to other budding warez/torrent site admins was easy revenue and my site wasn’t that big either but had decent traffic.

          Then there are a few good affiliate programs like friendlyduck that paid decent money for hits. I also made good money by offering VIP zone access against a monthly fee of $10 which gave members access to cracked/hacked premium accounts. All in all it was good business.

          Sold off the site 8 months down the line because I had a career to focus on :(

        • http://goo.gl/bFts Needlez

          actually if you look at it, it says in reply to Jack murdock right by my name. And if you really want me to prove it give me a few minutes to call my providers and some people that I know that run sites like these.

        • http://goo.gl/bFts Needlez

          Further more, I am having a nice night actually, not day as its 12:16 AM here. And most sites even the warez/ and other sites you say you have to pay for you don’t have to pay for, they have trials or premium services. It doesn’t mean you have to get those services to use the site. And I didn’t say that all sites don’t make money just that most sites don’t really turn much of a profit. When you think about how much money goes into putting up the site and how much money is generated in revenue from advertising and let’s say people paying for premium services they still would barely make any profit. I mean unless you have a bunch of people paying for the premium services you really wouldn’t see much of a profit.

        • Anon2

          @Guest771

          They *claimed* that SEK725000 (roughly 75000 euros) was their revenue. Authorities were still investigating their revenue sources and the trial was ongoing. MAFIAA lawyers also claimed that their revenue was SEK10 million (1 milliOn euros) which was also just a claim / estimate since the data was not available.

          Recently, TPB and their new owners bought new servers and moved them into a bunker.

          http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-relocates-to-a-nuclear-bunker-091006/

          Funny how they are making no profit at all, but can still afford to pay for a BUNKER and new state-of-the-art servers…

        • Anon2

          @I’m Reasonable
          “FACT: some torrent / Warez websites charge for membership – ergo, revenues”

          Really? Which ones?”

          http://www.firstload.com/?ir=1&fn=torrent+site+paid+membership

          http://www.trancetraffic.com/login.php?returnto=%2F

          http://www.blackcats-games.net/
          signup currently closed. invites usually 15 to 25 euros

          http://www.torrentavi.com/general-torrent-news/top-10-hottest-private-torrent-trackers-of-2010

          etc. etc.

          “For them, it is about freely sharing culture for the common good, something they feel noble about. ”
          You’re either naive or a hypocrite, much like the rest of the freetards on this site. I’d like to believe you belong to the first group.

          “It’s really hard to respect the pro-copyright brigade when they keep acting as blatantly disrespectful as they do. It is probably why a lot of folks feel their sharing is justifiable.”

          True. The copyright mafia’s actions have done nothing to protect creative professionals or ensure the audience gets good products at a fair price. Media corporations do not distribute income to artists and behave like parasites and it baffles me how DVDs can still cost more than 30 dollars or a music album download will still set you back 10 dollars – this gets us nowhere).
          The problem is, online pirates also behave like parasites and stifle incomes and innovation.

          “Revenues does not equal profit. This is why a lot of sites rely on donations from members. It is the only way to come up with enough cash to pay the bills. Are any of them profiting? I don’t know, and I doubt you do either. I’d say it is a good bet that any surplus would go towards the following months bills though. Running a torrent site isn’t cheap. ”

          I’m sure that is the case for a lot of those sites – but I doubt that the owners of big sites like Isohunt and TPB aren’t making a buck. In any case, whether they make a profit or not, msot torrent sites’ actions are morally and legally questionable.

  • Wibble

    Siegel appears to be adopting the Andrew Crossley ACS Law strategy of trying to ‘avoid judicial scrutiny’ the parallels are clear. Judge Zimmerman should follow the lead of Judge Birss QC. IAAL.

    • Anonymous

      You make a good point but the wheels of justice do not turn as quickly. The worm has already turned but it will still take time for this “avoiding judicial scrutiny” ruling to occur through Ira Siegel aiming to drop cases rather than to answer questions about the nature of his scheme.

      Hold him to account and he would soon break.

  • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

    Thank you, Ernesto.

    • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

      And Ben & enigmax :)

      • Trespass

        Thank-you, SJ Doe, you are a fighter and your involvement in this case is something all of us can learn from. We can fight!! But first we need to get involved!

        • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

          Good point but it’s so easy to dismiss or ignore events until the shit these copywrong trolls throw it in your face (using your letter box, email or ‘phone).

          So getting involved is HIGHLY advisable because this affects ALL our rights and our lives too.

          SJD-Babes has been a stalwart to the cause as well as providing the means to educate victims, judges and (most importantly) politicians – for these are the evil people who allow this scam to continue year after year.

          And this victimisation of mere altruistic filesharers MUST STOP NOW!!!

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  • Anonymous
  • http://www.edgeofshadow.com/ Edwin Perello

    This is stupid. The judge just needs to say the truth: this is extortion and blackmail. Clear cut.

  • Anonymous

    I love you Sophisticated Jane Doe, your an amazing person.
    As I’ve told you over on TD, you have much talent for exposing this and keeping people educated.

    You beat me to getting called out by a troll, so I will just have to work harder at it :)
    We should make up a bingo card for those of us educating people on trolls, and have a friendly competition to cover all the squares :)
    Your ahead now, but I hope to catch up soon.

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  • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

    Friendly competition is good, but wouldn’t it be better to work together? I’ve always been humbled by your superior ability to express thoughts with precision and color. At the same time blog discussions have their negative side – they quickly fade to obscurity, so the same truths must be repeated over and over. Have you ever thought about preserving your best thoughts using less transient media? (which does not cancel discussion activity anyway.)

    I would be happy if fightcopyrighttrolls.com could become more than my personal blog, attracting folks who are eager to bring this troll plague to its end. I have zero ego and don’t seek fame or money from this activity.

    So if you have any thoughts regarding it, drop me a line.

    • Anonymous

      I have all kinds of ego :)
      Its a requirement to keep up with the trolls.
      Normally I don’t have a battle of the wits with the witless, but I enjoy tearing apart a shakedown letter.

      I’ve emailed you and I even used the super secret password so you know its me.

      • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

        I’ll reply you later today – my day is fractured, don’t have time for anything but short comments.

  • brudda

    Demonoid is down. Anybody know what’s up?

    • Piratescum

      Yeah me and my pals are DDOSing it.

  • Jack

    Well, ACS:Law gave us an insight into the profitability of speculative invoicing, Andy didn’t intend to, but we all know how incompetent he is.
    A bank statement made it’s way onto the Internet http://pdfcast.org/pdf/bank-statement-acs-law It seems to be from the time when ACS:Law were courting Media Protector and he gave an estimate of income too, http://pdfcast.org/pdf/acs-law-email-to-media-protector
    The bank statement shows a steady stream of people making instalment payments to make the threat of being taken to court go away.
    Crossley told the SRA that recipients of his threatening letters were not obliged to pay up, but clearly plenty of people were intimidated by Crossley’s extortion threats.

    Kudos to Judge Bernard Zimmerman however for calling out the troll Siegel & now that this unsatisfactory reply has been given hopefully the Judge will see Siegel for what he is. Hopefully as in the UK, the speculative invoicing scam will die a quick death once the Judges can see through the flash lawyers in suits.

  • Sketch

    I hate all lawyers…….but my special and unrefined hatred is reserved for Nancy Grace of CNN……

  • Anon2

    So what else is new? Disclosing those settlements’ value would certainly not be good publicity for lawyers or their corporate employers. And I’m pretty sure that money will not be used to compensate artists whose work has been stolen.

    In any case, in the spirit of fairness and looking at both sides of the story – I would like to point out that The Pirate Bay owners’ have consistently refused to disclose the amount of money they are making from their website, and we have had to rely on estimates based on court proceedings.
    (Yes, feel free to flame away. You know who you are).

    “Zimmerman’s concern; that courts are being used as collections agencies. ”

    Very true. If national and international copyright law was updated with both creators and the audience in mind, courts would not be wasting time with these law suits and people would be able to get on with the business of actually developing a new business model.

    Because right now there is no model – only freetard we-want-everything-for.free anarchy and fading corporate trolls scavenging for small change from kids’ pockets and lobbying against internet freedom.

    Both threathen innovation and variety in media and arts.

    • Danny

      You keep spouting shit about the pirate bay. You do realise the guys on trial haven’t had a hand in running the site for several years? They are also not rich people, if they were pulling in millions they would be!

      Also they have stated how much they got in advertising and you have to realise the huge scale of the pirate bay. They needed a hell of a lot of bandwidth and server space to keep it running as they did. The site obviously wasn’t that profitable as the many people who wanted to buy it, possibly on the backs of the MAFIAA statements of profitability, backed out as they realised there was no profit there.

      You have to realise that the many people who file share are not doing it profit. Their disposable income is spent on Films / Music. People do not have bottomless pockets, you are getting the maximum amount you can out of these people and still you want to destroy their lives. Please just crawl back in your hole!

    • Danny

      You keep spouting shit about the pirate bay. You do realise the guys on trial haven’t had a hand in running the site for several years? They are also not rich people, if they were pulling in millions they would be!

      Also they have stated how much they got in advertising and you have to realise the huge scale of the pirate bay. They needed a hell of a lot of bandwidth and server space to keep it running as they did. The site obviously wasn’t that profitable as the many people who wanted to buy it, possibly on the backs of the MAFIAA statements of profitability, backed out as they realised there was no profit there.

      You have to realise that the many people who file share are not doing it profit. Their disposable income is spent on Films / Music. People do not have bottomless pockets, you are getting the maximum amount you can out of these people and still you want to destroy their lives. Please just crawl back in your hole!

      • Anon2

        “You do realise the guys on trial haven’t had a hand in running the site for several years?”
        Yes, I am well aware that those particular individuals stopped running the site when they were finally brought to trial. Your point?

        “they have stated how much they got in advertising and you have to realise the huge scale of the pirate bay.”

        And you believe them, of course. They’re honest people.

        And yes I do realise the huge scale of Pirate Bay’s support of online theft. That’s the whole fucking problem, actually.

        “People do not have bottomless pockets, you are getting the maximum amount you can out of these people and still you want to destroy their lives. Please just crawl back in your hole! ”

        In an economic crisis, people have priorities. If you still want to consume culture there is a lot of legal, free stuff you can get your hands on (Creative Commons, public domain, ad-sponsored content, etc.).
        “you are getting the maximum amount you can out of these people and still you want to destroy their lives.”. And here we again. You seem to think I’m just another copyright troll. Pathetic knee-jerk reaction. You crawl back to your hole and try to actually read and get a grip on how the world works (i.e. you want something I have produced – pay for it, simple enough. It’s called economics, you may have heard of it by now).

        • Anon2

          *typos in last paragraph

          And here we go again. You seem to think I’m just another copyright troll. Pathetic knee-jerk reaction. You crawl back to your hole and try to actually read and get a grip on how the world works (i.e. you want something I have produced – pay for it, simple enough. It’s called economics, you may have heard of it by now).

        • Danny

          They are a much more honest bunch of guys than the media industry. They have given us no reason to doubt them. The MAFIAA and their goons on the other hand have shown us multiple times why we shouldn’t trust them!

          You are just another copyright troll, the Anon sequel / remake we never wanted!

          In general life people have priorities not just in an economic crisis. They choose to spend X amount of their hard earned cash (notice it is hard earned unlike the monopolies you are defending) on media. What you need is a strategy that is fair on the consumer and allows them to consume media how they like.

          I understand basic economics, you cannot monopolise a market for ever as it will eventually fail (hopefully soon). Why not create a business model that allows people to consume media how they like. Things like Spotify and Netflix have shown that people are willing to pay for a service that allows them to watch or listen to what they want when they want whilst still extracting the same amount of cash out of their customers. This is the digital age, get with the times!

        • Anon2

          “They are a much more honest bunch of guys than the media industry. They have given us no reason to doubt them. ”
          That was awesome. I do love comedy.

          “What you need is a strategy that is fair on the consumer and allows them to consume media how they like.”
          No problem with that. If you read my comments you will find that I am all for a new model. It just has to be economically sustainable and a massive free ride is not sustainable.

          Plus, public domain laws should be reviewed so that content becomes public in a reasonable amount of time (70 years is certainly not reasonable).

          “”Things like Spotify and Netflix have shown that people are willing to pay for a service that allows them to watch or listen to what they want when they want whilst still extracting the same amount of cash out of their customers. This is the digital age, get with the times! ”

          What, you think I’ve just discovered email or something? Please. I’ve been using the Internet for 15 years.

          Spotify and Netflix are interesting. Not sure if they are the whole solution, but it’s probably a start, and a sign that the TV/movie industry is taking cues from the gaming industry (i.e. WoW, online gaming).

          Now, if you still want to believe I’m just another copyright troll sitting in a MAFIAA office, go right ahead. Whatever makes you sleep well at night.

        • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

          Hey, easy, easy. Why we discuss Pirate Bay? We are supposed to talk about how wonderful I am, aren’t we?

        • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com S.J. Doe

          Hey, easy, easy. Why we discuss Pirate Bay? We are supposed to talk about how wonderful I am, aren’t we?

    • Danny

      You keep spouting shit about the pirate bay. You do realise the guys on trial haven’t had a hand in running the site for several years? They are also not rich people, if they were pulling in millions they would be!

      Also they have stated how much they got in advertising and you have to realise the huge scale of the pirate bay. They needed a hell of a lot of bandwidth and server space to keep it running as they did. The site obviously wasn’t that profitable as the many people who wanted to buy it, possibly on the backs of the MAFIAA statements of profitability, backed out as they realised there was no profit there.

      You have to realise that the many people who file share are not doing it profit. Their disposable income is spent on Films / Music. People do not have bottomless pockets, you are getting the maximum amount you can out of these people and still you want to destroy their lives. Please just crawl back in your hole!

    • Trespass

      “Anon2″!!

      I hate sequels… Anon1 is stupid enough. I’m sure 2 will be even more stupid. After reading your post, I see I am right.

      Whose work was stolen? That would be a police matter. Was anyone deprived of their copyright and unable to use it? NO. Copy does not equal theft.

      Also, turn on the spell-check…

      • Anon2

        “Anon1 is stupid enough. I’m sure 2 will be even more stupid. After reading your post, I see I am right.”
        Very mature and articulate.

        “Whose work was stolen? That would be a police matter. Was anyone deprived of their copyright and unable to use it? NO. Copy does not equal theft.”

        My work, for instance. People who wanted to access my product have copied it and used it without paying me for my work – which is my right. Therefore, I was unable to enforce copyright. All rights granted to me by copyright which would enable me to make a living from my work were rendered useless in that situation.

        Unless I am offering free content to the public (which I also have done, on occasion, through Creative Commons) there really are situations where COPY. EQUALS. THEFT.

        Of course you know this perfectly well, and your comment is just a very lame and simplistic attempt to troll me, but I had to set the record straight anyway.

        “Also, turn on the spell-check… ”

        Seriously? Is that the best you can do?

        Run back to your mom’s basement, kid.

        • Zarka

          SJ Doe, I love you. You are my GI Joe. Thank you for your works and thanks those whose fight the trolls.

          Anon2, learn your Theft Law. If Copy equals Theft, those John Does will only have to pay the price of the media, or perform public work for a specific time only. Stop sucking blood from innocent people that got sucked in to digital instant gratification, that are not aware of their acts.

        • Anon2

          @Zarka
          “Stop sucking blood from innocent people that got sucked in to digital instant gratification, that are not aware of their acts. ”
          This sort of knee-jerk reaction and outright ignorance never ceases to amuse me.
          Calling me a blood-sucking corporate troll that chases innocent people is a very sorry excuse for an argument – you don’ t know the first thing about me.

          I am a creative professional who is tired of people not paying for products they obviously want / or need. And that is why I criticize freetards and pirates. I am not against a fair model for file-sharing and I have no other agenda beyond that.

          If you think you score points by claiming all anti-piracy people are some sort of corporate fat cats, think again. It just makes you look ridiculous.

          now, on to the subject at hand. the funny thing is I actually agree with you, partially.

          “If Copy equals Theft, those John Does will only have to pay the price of the media, or perform public work for a specific time only. ”

          Fine. I completely agree with that. I have said this in previous comments – most RIAA and corporate media lawsuits and settlements are wrong and counter-productive. I am fairly anti-piracy, but extracting 5 figure fines from people who have downloaded, say, 500 to 1000 dollars worth of music is not a proportional punishment and I actually find it immoral.

  • Okarin

    can’t have it written on paper otherwise the mainstream debate will take a whole new turn

  • Baxter

    Check this out:

    http://www.ceg-intl.com/p2p.php

    “The flagship service of the Copyright Enforcement Groups allows content owners to monetize peer-to-peer (P2P) activity and realize revenues from an unexpected source, internet piracy. Infringers are tracked 24/7/365, automatically receive a “pre-settlement” offer by email and process payments or purchase goods via Copyright Enforcement Group’s branded collections website at http://www.copyrightsettlements.com.
    [...]”

    http://i54.tinypic.com/29xjaqf.jpg

    Look also at their partners: http://www.ceg-intl.com/partners.php

    “Law Offices of Ira M. Siegel
    United States law office concentrating in Intellectual Property Protection & Enforcement – Patent, Trademark And Copyright Law.

    Schulenberg & Schenk Rechtsanwalte
    European law office based in Germany with areas of practice that include copyright, media, press, new media, and more. ”

    Take care, Baxter

  • Anonymous

    tinyurl.com/2df4ccp

  • thadirtytooftroof

    ira’s as doity as his grampa bugsy.

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