Mininova Denied Rectification From Dutch Government
Written by Ernesto on July 09, 2009Recently a committee of the Dutch Parliament published a report on copyright legislation in which it made several false accusations against the Dutch-based BitTorrent site Mininova. The Mininova team were insulted by the report and demanded a public rectification, which the parliament has now refused. Mininova is now considering legal action.
In an advisory report to the Dutch Government, a committee consisting of four members of the Parliament looked into the ever-increasing online piracy rate and how this should be dealt with in the future.
The committee concluded that downloading should be criminalized once the entertainment industry has come up with sufficient legal alternatives. Worryingly, the report also included some factual errors about Mininova that could potentially hurt the BitTorrent site in its ongoing court case against the local anti-piracy outfit BREIN.
Among other things, the parliamentarians wrote that in common with The Pirate Bay, Mininova doesn’t allow copyright holders to remove torrents from the site upon request. In fact, Mininova has a full notice and take down system. In response to these and other statements, Mininova demanded a public rectification from the Dutch parliament.
“We demand that the spreading of false information related to Mininova will be stopped. In addition, we demand that the working group removes the name Mininova from the report and places a rectification on the website of the Dutch parliament and in several national newspapers,” Mininova co-founder Erik Dubbelboer said.
“We take this very seriously,” Erik Dubbelboer said. “If these demands are not met, we’ll consider to take legal steps,” he added, in order to emphasize that their demands should not be taken lightly.
Legal threats or not, the committee announced today that it does not intend to rectify their earlier statements, even though they admit to having made a mistake.
The committee of the Dutch Parliament has, however, changed the original report based on (some of) Mininova’s complaints. Initially it stated that the torrent site had no “notice and takedown” policy to handle the complaints of copyright holders, but this has been corrected in an updated version.
In the updated version of the report the committee also added that Mininova’s “notice and takedown” system is not sufficient, even though it follows European law. Arda Gerkens, the head of the parliamentary committee said that Mininova’s copyright policy is not very efficient, since Mininova demands that rights holders send the full urls of the torrents they’d like to see removed.
This minor correction is of course far from what Mininova had demanded and they are not satisfied with the committee’s handling of their complaint. Mininova is currently discussing with their lawyers if and what legal action they are going to take against the Dutch Government.
Previously: Hackers Undermine Piracy Evidence With Hadopi Router
Next: EU Commissioner: Digital Natives See Piracy As ‘Sexy’
62 Responses
Probably Arda want content owners to send the full url to mininova and a golden phallus for her for every takedown.
“In the updated version of the report the committee also added that Mininova’s “notice and takedown” system is not sufficient, even though it follows European law. Arda Gerkens, the head of the parliamentary committee said that Mininova’s copyright policy is not very efficient, since Mininova demands that rights holders send the full urls of the torrents they’d like to see removed.”
What about Mininova’s content filtering system???
sue sue sue!!!!!!!!!!
hopefully this is ground for a retrial if they lose current case but i doubt it
Mininova case will be the same as ThePirateBay ;)
Mininova is going Down Going Down Going Down !!!
You will remember my words.
What you idiots cant CTRL-C CTRL-V..
seriously?
how hard is it to copy a FULL URL.. OMG.. MY BRAIN MIGHT EXPLODE..
what do you expect them to be able to handle your vague requests? ‘UHH.. CAN U LIKE TAKE DOWN OUR STUFF?’
“Mininova is currently discussing with their lawyers if and what legal action they are going to take against the Dutch Government.”
———-
Well, the problem is that the lawyers in general have demonstrated to be very incompetent for defending and protecting basic civil liberties and human rights.
“In the updated version of the report the committee also added that Mininova’s “notice and takedown” system is not sufficient, even though it follows European law.”
jeez those fuckheads aren’t satisfied with anything
Good luck for mininova in court, because even governments shouldn’t get away with spreading lies to the public, liked they mininova or not
doesn’t mininova have essentially the most advanced take down system in the world with their content filtering + standard take down
They are building up momentum for ACTA brothers and sisters pirates.
”downloading should be criminalized”
Erm, the fucking insane asylum is on the right chaps.. keep on walking through.
mininova deserves it !
those suckers keep on deleting my torrents
Who the fuck cares about Mininova? they’re like Torrentspy now, fuck’em.
History seems to be repeating itself. Now that the law is finally waking up and taking action against piracy, the pirates resort to their last reamining poorly conceived, desperate attempts to dig themselves out of the holes they have been digging for themselves ever since they decided to orchestrate theft. It’s ironic, though. Pirates have zero respect for the law and yet they have the capacity to apologetically appeal to it in their time of need.
Mininovas copyright policy is ridiculous too. Because it places the burdeon of identification on the people who’s copyright is being infringed. It’s basically like “until you find out about our website and send us a letter exactly the way we want it, we will let people continue to steal your work.”
When it sinks, mininova will represent a huge victory for the entertainment industry. Millions of torrents of pilfered material are downloaded everyday.
by .neo.styles|nvDX:
When it sinks, mininova will represent a huge victory for the entertainment industry. Millions of torrents of pilfered material are downloaded everyday….
Congratulotions :) Now, that’s quite a statement!
I still consider though that sharing is caring, and will lend my books and music to friends. U may bark at us, but we take no profit with sharing. Just the pleasure to be in a human community.
All the best, bros and sis, yarr!
12–>”Pirates have zero respect for the law”
————
Yes, I agree totally with you. The pirates from the USA music industry (RIAA) has been stealing to the musicians their profits, paying to the musicians around 10% from the sale of each album in the last 50 years; the rest (90%) go to the pockets of the parasites content owners (middlemen without any artistic talent = the RIAA).
But… that easy life!!! :-)
Living of the hard work from others as a parasite, without having that working at all :-)
It’s cool being an executive (pirate) from the MAFIAA. :-)
Huh… so neostyles didn’t disappear with Reasoned Mind? It was finally getting peaceful around here.
A question for you, .neo.styles|nvDX.
Are you really believing that all the people won’t share anymore because idiots as you say it?
No I am just a payed troll, certain protection agencies hire people to spread bad publicity to counteract the torrent community, im one of those people.
If you don’t like what im saying, ignore it.. either way I get payed.
Your a fool.. You wish you were paid ;) …
Your arguments are false to begin with..
Regardless if every tracker was taken down .torrent is still possible..
We will just share them over Gnutella or something lolz..
@16..
You don’t even know how to spell properly lolz..
what do they expect mininova to be able to read peoples minds.
Dear Mininova,
I would like that torrent removed you know the one.
@17 they don’t even get 10%
If you can read/recall Janis Ian’s article/interview you can see.
http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html
http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/02/09/23/133228.shtml?tid=141
About the blurb that providing url is gruesome task? lolz What do they want to do? Well they can go their mommy, with fake tears in their eyes… mommy mommy, they are copying that song.. uammm…(crying loudly!!)
“The committee concluded that downloading should be criminalized”
If the government doesn’t know how to deal with the problem, they just criminalize it. It also means that they didn’t give it much thought – just banned it and that’s all. And although a war against downloading is lost, it is still not good that such laws are passed – it will make the legalization of all information sharing, which will happen sooner or later, much harder.
The RIAA are not pirates in any sense of that word. People may give them a bad rep because they actually try to stand up for the artists and enforce copyright law, but they aren’t nearly as evil as people make them out to be. If someone doesn’t stand up for and represent the artists then who will? I doubt artists have the money to pursue any serious legal action when the time comes.
Assuming that that is true, and the RIAA knowingly steal from artists, why would anyone become an artist to begin with? If the RIAA really took 90% of the profit, then being an artist wouldn’t be viable and no one would step on board. Clearly this isn’t the case as there are thousands of artists out there.
What about the actual people who download all the music without paying a cent? Do you think they are innocent. You do realize that when someone pirate an album the profit is zero, so the artist would still earn zero? Even if the RIAA supposedly tried to steal any of that profit, there wouldn’t be any to steal and it wouldn’t make any difference.
I doubt artists have the money to pursue any serious legal action when the time comes.
And WHY do they NOT have the money?
Exactly….
Also, IF they have the money it takes away the need to sue someone for enjoying their music. And more music to enjoy is THE reason copyright exists.
The guys at Mininova are just a joke!!!
@neo.styles: since when using police means to defend profitability of intellectual-property industries is something that is taken for granted? If someone ends up with near-zero profit by being able to sell only the first copy of album/movie/software, then so be it. Next time they will have to be more creative with their distribution model. Lots of businesses solve similar problems of competition without resorting to legislative crutches that copyrights and patents are.
IMHO, under todays taxpayer-subsidized strict IP enforcement regime all kinds of “intellectual property” are overproduced, plain and simple. Ramping up enforcement will only aggravate the problem.
P-Rated…you make a few great points. Indeed I never understood why FBI and other agencies defend the profitability of intellectual-property. Is this really the job of governmental agencies? I just do not understand that. I mean if you are an artist and you are so concerned with your profits why not go into some other filed like business. Every thing you own is a material and your job in securing that is much easier.
Besides that the entertainment industry is overproducing. I mean some one makes a game for every movie that comes out.
Sue the ba$tard$. Sue them to hell.
Because legal fees can cost thousands of dollars and most bands live very meager lives? That’s the whole point of the RIAA. They are there to represent aritists. They have the political influence to protect the aritsts interests as well.
You’re not getting it. Can you try and think about it from the aritsts point of view? People can enjoy their music, im sure they wont get any arguement there, but the artist needs to have a garuntee of profiting off their work, so they can continue making music. If they dont have that garuntee, then being an arist is no longer viable for them. Do you understand that?
Have you ever paid for something at the store? Imagine if no one paid. Same thing.
Except that is clearly not the case here. Good things get pirated more and in many cases, things that get downloaded hundreds of thousands of times by thieves have much, much lower profit margins than you would expect. Nothing gets pirated once. “It was bad, so people pirated” it is a complete fallacy. People pirate what’s good, because it makes their time worth it and better serves their greed.
Niether is it taken for granted. Society expects people to follow rules, even when they are behind the anonymity of the internet. Pirates have abused that trust and now they are beginning to find out that that maybe that wasn’t such a good idea. Justice is finally taking it’s rightful course.
Many people pay for IP content and they dont have any trouble doing so. How much do you think a game that costed millions of dollars to produce should cost? Prices are based on making the content providers line of work profitable and in some cases even viable. Pirates are interring in the fair trade market and as I said, they are paying the price for short sightedness.
@neo.styles:
“How much do you think a game that costed millions of dollars to produce should cost?”
Millions of dollars + some profit on top of that. Finding a way to recoup the costs should be left entirely up to the producer. I’m not arguing against the prices here but rather against using taxpayer funds to defend the faltering licensing model.
“Pirates are interring in the fair trade market and as I said, they are paying the price for short sightedness.”
More precisely, they are interfering with a government-instituted pseudomarket for limited usage rights. Given the enormous enforcement costs and the complexity of regulatory bureaucracy reaching Soviet proportions (think of WTO, WIPO etc.), I doubt such a pseudomarket is worth defending.
.neo.styles is smart. What he is doing is making the idiots that stand up for business as usual look stupid. it draws attention to the real people that are part of the propaganda machine.
Keep up the good fight. :)
“You do realize that when someone pirate an album the profit is zero, so the artist would still earn zero?”
You do realise that whenever someone buys a second-hand CD on amazon or ebay, the profit is zero so the artist would still earn zero? ….
The reality is that most artists ouside the top-tier rely on concert and merchandise revenue over-and-above CD sales.
Indeed the majority of artists with major labels do not get paid AT ALL when a CD is sold. They are paid a lump sum for the original rights, and see nothing more. Again, only the top-tier can negotiate decent terms or a fixed sum per sale.
‘Have you ever paid for something at the store? Imagine if no one paid. Same thing.’
Its impossible to pay for anything anyway. Everybody has to use the I.O.U’s that the government prints and all that does is transfer responsibility for the debt to society at large. Nothing ever gets paid, society simply has an ever increasing ‘Promise to pay’.
The thing I find funny in all of this is that industries that should be highly regulated(financial sector) are not but the ones that are no where near something critical to human existence are the ones the ones that have the most regulations LoL
Who is those idiots that legislate those things?
woah, another neostyles incarnation whinging that copying is stealing… who could have guessed? :p
@neostyles
What on Earth are you talking about? What does this statement have to do with this article? Someone spread wrongful information about mininova, and they’re asking for it to be changed. What is poorly conceived and desperate about that?
Also, filesharing isn’t theft.
That’s what they said about TPB back in 2006. Site was back up in three days. I can’t imagine what Dan Glickman’s face must have looked like when he found out, but I bet it was hilarious.
You mean the copyright law that needs changing, as has been explained to you already?
Also, they stand up for artists? Really? My sources say otherwise.
Finally, something resembling a legit point from you. I cannot speak for the motivation of the musician who signs with a record label, but since the record labels do take that much money (as per links above), there must be some reason that the artists still sign on. Perhaps they’re taking the risk? Perhaps they’re young and naive and have no idea what the contract they sign is saying?
This is a red herring, and a poor one at that. Record labels take money from sales, such as with CDs and music tracks sold online. Essentially you are arguing that because filesharers do not pay for all the media they download, the recording industry cannot take any of that money for themselves. I don’t understand.
This made my irony meter twitch.
Then… why don’t they?
One, no artist ever has a “garuntee” of profiting off their work. They could flop. Two, you seem to assume that this “garuntee” should apply to all uses
To me this looks like another baseless “You’re all going down! Just you wait!” claim. You aren’t going to scare me into submission with hazy threats and implications that filesharing is dying, when it clearly isn’t.
Also, please learn proper apostrophe use.
And we should be exactly like others because you say so? No, thanks.
Again, tell that to the musicians who sign on with the major labels.
Neo.styles,
If your are being paid to say what you say, than I give you NO credit to you.
You say not what you think, but what your pocket demands.
I didn’t know you was paid. So your words and nothing are the same now. Better, nothing is a little more indeed.
Sharing will never end. They can close as many torrent sites as they want, they can ban P2P, but other methods will be created.
The only way to end file sharing is closing internet around the world.
If only 2 computers be able to connect to each other, file sharing will exist.
This is TOTALLY UNWORTHY OF THE COOL LAND OF THE DUTCH!!!
You can smoke pot, be a legal tax-paying prostitute (or be her customer) and much more..
Why can’t filesharers get the same respect as the prostitues and the drugaddicts.
I had expected more from Holland!
Neo.styles = douche
you can’t kill a pirate.. you just can’t.. you can try, but in the end you will fail..mainly because they out number you, and they like free sh*t!
you can sue us, make laws to punish us, and even jail us for eventually breaking those laws, but bottom line.. you can’t and won’t destroy p2p.. our community is much more intelligent, adaptive and determined..
arrrrggg!
long live mini!
Your just too good to pay for things like everyone else?
@39
Do you think that anyone who sees things a different way is either being paid off or part of some huge conspiracy? Wow.
@ 4nd
Im amazed that somone can be so adamant about their “right” to freeload.
Uhm, I dont think you understood my post. The artists know that. As part of their agreement, it’s implied that the record label do what’s necessary to support the interests of the artists because it’s in their interest to expand and sign more artists.
No because it’s the RIGHT THING TO DO and it’s they deserve the money, you greedy freeloader. Sheesh, you’re dense.
Why are you unable to absorb the concept of people rightfully profiting from their own work?
Maybe you haven’t been around for a few weeks, but the pirate bay, the original die hard anti copyright group, thew in the towel and several other torrent sites shut down either willingly or because of legal action. Im sorry, whether you like it or not, piracy is coming to an end. Pretty soon you’re going to have to pay for things. That’s right, go to the store and use this thing called money at the register. Gasp! Terrifying, isn’t it?
I think every artist realizes and has come to terms with this basic premise. Hell, anything doesn’t have a guarantee of success. What I meant was the guarantee of being able to grow and profit from their success.
Did you even read the article. The entertainment industry is standing up to mininova. By carrying out international legal action, they are representing the artists. Simple logic. It’s not that hard.
Why because you eagerly subscribe to the dogmantic idea that the RIAA, the government, and anyone else who doesn’t want you ripping off the entertainment industry is trying to curb your freedom of speech? Yeah, that sounds like it.
Your powers of logic are abysmal. IF A CD IS PIRATED, THERE IS NO MONEY FOR THE RECORDING INDUSTRY OR THE ARTIST TO BEGIN WITH. Get it? If the record label takes a small portion of the money, atleast there is some left for the artist. It is a fact that successful artists would earn more money in a fair system where freetards didn’t just grab anything they could get their grubby hands on.
Or maybe if their recording label made being an arist financially impossible, there wouldn’t have been a music industry to begin with. Aritsts aren’t stupid, contrary to what you may think. All that is defined in the bands contract. If the arits discovered that the record label would be taking too much of their money, they would say no thanks and go look for another line of work.
Has it also ever occurred to you that the artists are a recording labels PRIMARY means of income? They have costs to pay for too, like booking the band and taking care of travel fares and touring costs. Operating a recording label isn’t cheap. That said, how ever it is in their interest to attract new artists (growing is one of the most basic parts of every businesses) nature and they are well aware that the artists wouldn’t settle for unreasonable low wages. Therefore, it would be logically in their best interest to not set the bar unreasonably low.
The average artist lives a pretty meager life, and I doubt a recording label tries to convince the artist otherwise. That is acceptable. However, earning zero profits is not acceptable to either the record label or the artist, and that is the exact effect that piracy imparts. How you can defend this with such conviction is beyond me. Maybe you don’t have a job.
Oh really, sherlock? OK then, how should they be changed? It sounds like you are trying to disagree with me, but by not actually elaborating on these changes, you are avoiding makeing commitment, to avoid accountability for the all erroneous notions this is based on. Presumably, you are talking about a new copyright where the copyright holders don’t get recognition or control over how their work is distributed? Right? Because then it will be all about you and the people who’s hard work you are benefiting off of wont matter at all? Nope, not going to happen. The current model has worked for hundreds of years. It is the basis of fair trade and a healthy economy.
The RIAA is taking some pretty substantial actions against the people who enable, support, and facilitate piracy. That qualifies as support.
I explained it earlier though, but under the system as it is supposed to be, the aritists would get a portion of the profits from their CD sales. When you add in the reality of piracy, the artists profit margin is zero.
Why can’t you see that taking other people’s things without giving anything back to them is just wrong?
Uhm, back in 2006, there wasn’t :
1) A trial and a conviction
2) TPB going crying to sweden for human rights violations
And you might have missed the news, or just consciously have chosen to pretend like it doesn’t exist, but TPB got bought up and are now going legit. Clearly, this is the end for them. They were the original pirate site. They were the ones who arrogantly thumbed their noses at authority for nearly a decade. With them going down, other people who were moved by their show of confidence, will now undoubtedly loose faith.
It helps if you read the entire thing instead of just the part that serves your position.
…And the government turned them down. This signifies that pirates aren’t all powerful and that atleast someone is standing up to them.
Wrong. They are depriving the copyright holders of
1) Profits
2) The opportunity to grow and expand
3) The opportunity to obtain success as per that of their work.
Physical property is not a requisite for theft.
Heard about the HL2 leak? That was called theft even though it was only code from valve’s servers.
Some of us post here to vent our frustration with the corruption we see in many of our governments.That CANCER seems to be spreading faster than filesharing and “ACTA” is just another example of this.
The problem for your slavemasters “Neo.styles” is…you cannot defy “Newtons third law”.We are equal and opposite opposing forces.Push us and we push back!.
We will continue under any threat or sanction forced upon us.We will not allow anyone to take away our rights unchallenged.Its is purely for those reasons that we will win.It’s inevitable!.
@.neo.styles:
“Wrong. They are depriving the copyright holders of
1) Profits
2) The opportunity to grow and expand
3) The opportunity to obtain success as per that of their work.
Physical property is not a requisite for theft.”
But then, free-market competition (which often implies copying others’ ideas) fits all three criteria for “theft”. If you open a meatshop and someone else opens a meatshop on the same street reproducing your business idea, then you rival is depriving you of:
1) Profits
2) The opportunity to grow and expand
3) The opportunity to obtain success
Shall we outlaw competition?
Now you may resort to the old and boring labor-theory-of-value arguments about negligible costs of copying etc., or just concede defeat.
“it’s in their interest to expand and sign more artists.”
MORE LIES!
It’s much cheaper to sell a million copies of 1 CD by 1 artist, than to sell a million CD’s by a million artists to a million different people.So once again it comes down to the fact you just dont like the competition!.
“Pirates have zero respect for the law”
WRONG AGAIN!
We are not anarchists seeking to bring about the fall of civilization.We are reasonable people who know right from wrong.But If an overwhelming portion of us deem a law unjust then we will fight for change anyway we can.
20 MILLION people in the U.K download it is estimated.With these numbers on OUR side there is very little hope for you.Give up now and rest what few brain cells you have left.Your gonna be looking for OTHER employment shortly knob jockey!,lol
“The current model has worked for hundreds of years. It is the basis of fair trade and a healthy economy.”
WRONG!
The original model when formulated was fair and just for its purpose and it’s day.
However through manipulation and distortion it has become unjust,unfair,market distorting and harmful to FAIR competition.
ANYMORE BULLSHIT?
“Operating a recording label isn’t cheap.”
No i’m sure it isn’t.Especially when the c.e.o and his buddys get seven figure incomes.Ofcourse there’s always the leeches like you to pay and aswell and that all mounts up.No wonder the artist is hard up!
“However, earning zero profits is not acceptable to either the record label or the artist, and that is the exact effect piracy imparts”
ok…so that would be according to you right?.Well we see it alittle different.Piracy does not earn zero profits,infact if it weren’t for sharing you guys would probably be worse off not better off.
I own 500 dvds a 70 inch SONY 1080p tv,two 46 inch tvs a PS3,bluray,thousands in games titles,Ive spent 50,000 in the last 6 years on your media and hardware and all because i discovered BT which gave me the power to get what i want,when i want and play it how i like it.
So much for sharing costing them money huh.You must be a lawyer but alas not a very good one.All your misdirection and misinformation is pointless.
If this were a movie script then your script would have plot holes you could drive a 18 wheeler through!
You are mistaken rampant copying (or for that matter unauthorized copyring) is only carried out by pirates. In the real world when one company wants to copy another companies work, they have to get permission and often pay for use for it. This establishes a concept of ownership that exceeds mere semantics. How does this benefit the the market? When people actually have to think for themselves to create an innovative good, product, (as opposed to just ripping off someone else) this is what facilitates competition. Moreover, when successful products me with correspondingly high profits (as one would expect), this greatly encourages copyright holders to produce new and better products. However, with piracy, this is not the case. Success is not rewarded with profits.
Why bother? Piracy is killing competition by itself.
Fall of civilization? Probably not. You just cause massive damages through neglect, selfishness, and a casual attitude about large scale theft. As far as copyright goes, pirates are very much anarchists. They have separated and cut themselves off from the rest of the world by their arrogant defiance of the law. While anarchists usually associated with social or political separation, piracy anarchy is simply digital. Pirates refuse to coexist with society’s rules and instead take refuge in the internet.
You know right from wrong? Gee, then maybe you can explain why you think you are not entitled to pay for anything?
Shutdown the torrent sites, and most of it comes to a grinding halt.
Wow, looks like sarah palin has been teaching you how to hold a disscussion. Care to elaborate on how not letting people freeload isn’t fair? Oh that’s right, you can’t. You’re only slapping down the same tired old lines.
Wow, sounds like you’ve been taking lessons from sarah palin on how to hold a discussion.. Uhm.. it’s all about the harmful, the market, and.. the unjust!
Ok, so let me get this straight, mcgyver. Millions of people avoiding paying for things somehow earns money for the people who are responsible for those things? Where is your logic? Have become so completely consumed by your need to download things that you feel the need to rationalize it point blank with zero thinking behind it? Honestly, how could you say this with a straight face? Those payments are where those profits come from and without them, how do you think they get their profits?
Your line of thinking seems to be
Millions of people avoid payment ? A miracle occurs ? Copyright holder profits from their work.
Or let me guess, the tooth fairy steps in and gives them a little green?
You can’t pirate tvs, PS3s, or any other hardware. Many pirates claim that they purchase things after “trying them out” and act like they are not just an exception. If this were actually true, then there wouldn’t be such huge losses for the entertainment industry.
This is just so easy. Are you even thinking about what you posting?
….No. Try “if your argument was a script, I just ran over it with an 18 wheeler.”
@ neo.styles|nvDX
The solution is very simple, Entertainment industry sort your distribution model out then give me unlimited access to your stuff for 5-15 euros a month and I’ll pay it even add it to my broadband subscription. You would get more money from me that way than I would buy in games/cds/tv shows and dvds per month. You can even put advertisements in there too and grab some extra cash. The problem is it’s easier to pirate stuff than pay for it
But stop with DVD regions and different release dates for regions. That’s almost guarantied to makes people pirate.
@.neo.styles:
“You are mistaken rampant copying (or for that matter unauthorized copyring) is only carried out by pirates. In the real world when one company wants to copy another companies work, they have to get permission and often pay for use for it.”
I’ve provided an example where some kind of “work” (discovery of demand for meat in a particular area) has been copied by a rival without permission. As a result, profits and opportunities were were lost. That fits your previously stated definition of theft. Yet, it also fits the common-sense definition of competition. How that?
I admit I love to fry IP advocates with examples like that. They demonstrably fail to quantify how much copying constitutes “stealing”, or how much “intellectual labor” constitutes a work worth IP protection. Enough to conclude that IP is form of socialist privilege handed out by the Big Government rather than a legitimate, natural form of property.
“This establishes a concept of ownership that exceeds mere semantics.”
No thanks, we don’t need elaborate concepts of ownership.
“How does this benefit the the market? When people actually have to think for themselves to create an innovative good, product, (as opposed to just ripping off someone else) this is what facilitates competition.”
Wrong. If I’m a customer looking for a cheap rip-off (and please don’t forget that rip-offs can still be improved upon i.e. be innovative) then I think I get a deal with THAT competitor, intellectual property be forsaken.
“Moreover, when successful products me with correspondingly high profits (as one would expect), this greatly encourages copyright holders to produce new and better products.’
Wrong again. The duration of state-granted IP monopoly (20 years for patents, 70+ years for copyrights) virtually guarantees that investment in new products/services will be as inefficient as it could. True, with state-granted protection there’s some incentive to innovate, but very little incentive to economize. The end result is, as we see, multi-million-dollar failures in the movie industry, bug-ridden proprietary bloatware, and pharmaceutical research mired in FDA bureaucracy.
“However, with piracy, this is not the case. Success is not rewarded with profits.”
Success will be rewarded with profits if the entrepreneur comes up with a viable business model that tackles the copying issue. What are those MBA degrees for, after all?
“Why bother? Piracy is killing competition by itself.”
Other than discouraging particular models of production, I believe it has zero effect on competition. On the other hand, copyright/patent monopoly is quite likely to strangle it as experience shows.
And, to make it clear, I’m not for “stealing stuff of the ‘Net”. I’m more concerned with my taxes being spent on IP witchhunt and my privacy being sacrificed to the Innovation Idol at copyright holders’ whim. What a pitiful distortion of capitalism this intellectual property boondoggle is!
@ neo.styles|nvDX
Lol,you my little retarded friend can produce no independant evidence for any of your claims.You never have and never will because there isn’t any.So piss into the wind all you like…but don’t try and tell me it’s raining!!.
http://www.entertane.com – the easiest site for torrents (movies, music, software, games, xxx) – faster, simpler – and you can search all your favorite torrent sites. No registration needed.
@25 “The RIAA are not pirates in any sense of that word.”
No, RIAA are not pirates. They’re a CARTEL, in every sense of the word.
@neo.styles
All i can say is that you can never stop piracy. Just go back in time, we used vhs players to recoard movies off the tele, people created bootleg vinyles and cassets. Then there was napster, after that we have bittorrent. You can not stop piracy. If bittorrent gets shut down there are still newsgroups which believe it or not usenet is older than the internet so have fun shutting that one down. If you keep forcing pirates down a hole then you will just agrivate them more. I honestly dont understand why we cant just have a subscription based programming almost like tv where we can have as much content as we like without drm for a monthly fee. I am willing to pay 10-20 dollars/month per family for all my music needs. Then I would also pay 10 more dollars for tv/movie material. Thats the thing you offer your alternatives but they are locked down with drm or just impracticale. What if I want an mp3 track and not an aac track, etc. A great example of this is to look at the russian mp3 services, why do you think they make so much money??? the offer the material at the right price.
geesh ive paid for the same metallica cd like 4 times.so i get payed back with a threating letter from the band on napster. but if i want to make a backup im a criminal,a lowlife.
ok let me think about it am i gonna go pay someone who hates me,who prosicutes my peers, calls me a thief. we are just dollar signs not fans.i feel disrespected by the movie,music,games.you guys better start treating me right if you ever want my or my familys buiessness.
you dont talk shit bout your custermers and expect to keep em.
industry and for that reason, not right or wrong fuck you riaa/mpaa
I watched “Knowing” recently and recall saying that had I paid the entrance fee/dvd cost of that movie and watched it I would have felt as if I were robbed.
On the other hand… if I download a film I like and then go to buy the dvd… that’s a win for all parties.
At the moment it just seems as if the industry is spewing out whatever it can whenever it can just because every poor soul that thinks “maybe it’ll be good” ends up paying the price and sadly, the commercial world is such that they have no redress. I can’t call the studios and say “HEY! THIS FILM WAS UTTERLY ABYSMAL; YOU SAID IT WAS GREAT AND IT WASN’T. LIARS. REFUND, NOW!”…
So… we’re left with a situation where someone will download a film… conclude that it’s not worth the money and delete it.
Sounds like the industry has had a free ride, and they want to protect it. Don’t get me wrong, piracy = theft = illegal. It’s difficult to escape that fact. At the same time it’s impossible to say that “piracy alone is killing the industry”.
The “industry” needs to quit dragging its heels. Improve content quality, perhaps more people will buy. Improve legal methods for downloading. As it stands a movie download can take as little as 5 minutes… it takes so much longer to go to the mall and buy a dvd. Where’s the incentive?
If a dvd didn’t cost me 14.99 it’d be a little less of a turd-sandwich. But that’s a different ball game altogether.
These lawyers need a slap. I agree, piracy is wrong… but these guys are just chasing the money.
I’m sure I recall a similar hubbub about the VCR. What ever came of that?
@.neo.styles|nvDX
Everyone has once copied something. By virtue, everyone is a pirate.
Even you.
You copied the text without permission – quoting requires that you acknowledge the source and have permission to do so. I think from the transcript of the conversations so far, you did not seek such permission.
All people, by law, are allowed to make a personal copy of a CD. This legislation WILL NOT change in Europe. So long as the industry still provides CDs for sale, cassettes or anything else, you will be unfortunately unable to prevent this fact.
Per the audience reading and any legal representatives, did you know that all CDs have a shelf life of about 8 years before the materials begin to degrade. It didnt use to be this way. In the beginning, the production quality was flawless. However the dye nowadays used (with re-recordables) is bio-degradable and the Aluminum plate is such a low quality that degradable beings the minute it is exposed to air and has a shelf life of around 8 years. The industry knows this and wants you to buy your albums time and time again. Does this come up in a court of law that you are buying a defective product? If someone told you the computer you are using would die after 3 years, would you buy it ?
Where-as you believe that the law is in the right, unfortunately you rely upon inexperienced judges with regard to the digital realm, notions or concepts outside of the standard rule of law and prejudices to bamboozle the ruling in your favor. You pay off liberty and law through corruption and bribery and when all else fails, you are no different to the bully in the playground.
Unfortunately for the time being, no-one is referring your industry to the monopolies committee of the EU, but believe me, that day will come.
When it does, i, for sure, will be there to watch every individual rejoice regarding how corrupt your industry really is.
You (by the psydoname .neo.styles|nvDX) do not have any right to reproduce any content above written. Doing so will violate copyright and intellectual ownership Copyright (C)2009 Laz.
Good luck Mininova !
@Anonymous
In the beginning there was TELNET,
And it was good.
Then there was ftp and nntp (newsgroups) ‘87
Then came gopher, veronica, http and irc (’94).
I did not expect this from a member of the socialist party! I have lost all my respect and not voting SP next time. fúcking nazi’s
Laz wow. Agree 100%
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