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MPAA Afraid To Disclose ‘Secret’ Anti-Piracy Strategies

In their ongoing battle with file-hosting service Hotfile, five MPAA studios have asked the court to disallow Hotfile access to information on their anti-piracy strategies. While drawing an analogy between copyright infringement and drug trafficking, the MPAA studios ask the court to handle their anti-piracy documents as trade secrets to prevent ‘pirates’ from getting even more sophisticated than they already are.

secretEarlier this year, five member companies of the MPAA filed a lawsuit against the Hotfile file-hosting service and ever since the parties have been battling in court.

Last month we reported that the movie studios had requested a substantial amount of information from the file-hosting service, including IP addresses of uploaders and downloaders, and the company’s source code.

Hotfile on their turn, has recently requested information on the anti-piracy strategies of the Hollywood movie studios and the third-party companies they work with. The Florida based file-hosting service says it needs this information in order to mount a proper defense and has subpoenaed Disney, Twentieth Century Fox, Universal, Columbia and Warner, as well as five anti-piracy vendors.

Among other things, Hotfile wants to know how the movie studios find copyrighted material online, what films they give priority and when and where they look for infringing copies.

The MPAA studios, however, do not want to give up this information and have asked the court for a protective order. They argue that disclosing their anti-piracy strategies and protocols could have disastrous consequences, as it would make ‘pirates’ even smarter than they already are.

“Defendants have demanded all documents showing how Plaintiffs and their vendors locate infringing material online. In essence, Defendants are like the fox asking for the combination to the lock on the hen-house door,” the studios explain to the U.S. District Court of Southern Florida.

The request for a protective order is explained in a lengthy document which is accompanied by supporting letters from the anti-piracy chiefs of the five Hollywood studios. The general message is that their anti-piracy strategies should remain secret to prevent an avalanche of piracy.

“Plaintiffs are engaged in a continuous cat-and-mouse game with persons engaged in the unauthorized exploitation of Plaintiffs’ works online. These infringers are often highly sophisticated, and routinely restructure their services or make changes to their modus operandi to evade or decrease the effectiveness of the studios’ anti piracy methods,” the MPAA members write.

To dramatize their point the studios draw an analogy between copyright infringement and drug trafficking.

“In many ways, this is no different than the prejudice to law enforcement if they were compelled to disclose to drug traffickers where law enforcement agents were conducting their stakeouts, or their points of interdiction, or the confidential informants they were using, or the details of the technology they used to detect smugglers’ routes into the United States.”

The same drug analogy is brought up again later to emphasize how severe the consequences could be should Hotfile be given access to information on the studio’s anti-piracy strategies.

“Continuing the drug trafficking analogy, clearly law enforcement efforts would be severely compromised if criminals knew the time windows in which law enforcement intended to step up investigative activities, what particular drugs they would be prioritizing for enforcement, which suspected dealers police were declining to arrest in order to avoid compromising ongoing investigations, and what levels of possession would trigger enforcement.”

The MPAA members want the U.S. District Court to issue a protective order and prevent Hotfile from obtaining any anti-piracy information from the studios directly, or from any of the five anti-piracy outfits (DtecNet, BayTSP, Peer Media, OpSec Security and MiMTiD) they work with.

The movie studios are only willing to send Hotfile copies of the DMCA notices they previously sent to the file-hosting service.

The U.S. District Court will review the request of the MPAA studios and a decision is expected to follow in the near future. Meanwhile, everyone interested in both piracy and anti-piracy strategies across the world will be rubbing their hands in anticipation of the forthcoming revelations, should there be any.


Memorandum in support of the motion.

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  • Lord

    There they go thinking they are the police and are above the law yet again.

    • Lord

      Not that the police are above the law either, but in their analogy the police are also put in physical danger should criminals learn that information. Very different situation.

      I’m surprised the UK government haven’t used the same analogy to get speed camera warnings removed. They’d make an even bigger killing in cash.

      • http://www.xbomber.co.uk/ Crash

        Let’s put it this way: The police are more above the law than the average civilian is.

        • Lulz

          No. No one is ABOVE the law. Everyone is on the same level, even the laws themselves. This thought pattern that you or anyone else is ‘above’ the law is utterly ridiculous. Police do wrong things, make mistakes, they’re humans too. To say they are holier than thou is a laughable joke.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000345113163 Neal Bhalodia

          They are kinda above the law, an example is if try to defend yourself against a cop your breaking the law because you would be hitting the cop, and im not saying that cops are bad or anything.

        • Anonymous

          Law? I am the law!

          (Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.)

        • Anonymous

          I heard in one UK case a Judge ruled that the testimony of a Police Officer is above that of photographic evidence which proves them wrong.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Violated0, you have got to be kidding with that? Link to the case please, if you can find it.

          If that is true, the U.K. has a SEVERE problem with their legal system.

        • Guest

          Only the jews are above the law.. And you cannot critizice them.

        • Anonymous

          That would be in the more recent appeal of Jeremy Bamber.

          Early photos showed that there were no scratches under the mantle taken shortly after these murders which support Jeremy Bamber’s belief that they were only added later once his cousins (who inherited the house upon his conviction) had found the silencer many days following claimed to have caused the scratches.

          If you read the judges rejection of his appeal then you can read that the photo evidence was rejected when the testimony of a police officer is worth more.

    • Haha

      and its not like downloading will kill 70+ people like norway OR cause physical harm…so now we know they are self deluded nut jobs …..
      perhaps if MORE people were nice and shared fewer incidents would occur.

    • Scary Devil Monastery

      Errr. So you have a company which delivers “evidence” to the government law enforcement agencies but who feels it “can not supply the methods they used to gather the evidence”.

      Am I the only one who keeps thinking this sorth of method won’t survive jurisprudence as it is written in most laws and courts in any nation?

      • Bakapinkuu

        It screamingly flies in the face of the US constitution’s enshrined right to face your accuser. But whether it will actually be ruled to be prima-facie bull$#!% is uncertain, given the way George the Second stacked the judiciary with “business-friendly” toadies.

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  • Friend of the People

    Hmm. Hard to know how to feel about this. One one hand, enforcement strategies do lose strength if the details of the method and details, so discretion is desirable. On the other hand, enforcement in this area often requires blacklists and observations of websites, and we have a vested interest in making sure that any power observing people has transparency so we can make sure that power isn’t being abused. It’s hard to know where to draw the line.

    In the end, probably better to err on the side of transparency.

    • Ven

      Transparency in government is a good thing; in business, forcing it can really punish industries (see patent disputes in technology).

      I would be more for an independent probe that reviews the legitimacy of the MPAA’s practices without disclosing their fundamental methods for fighting piracy. That way discrepancies could be addressed without disclosing potentially vital information directly to competition.

      I see a need for that information to be viewed and reviewed; I do not however understand why it should be made public or reviewed by an opposing business.

      • Friend of the People

        I think this because their methods aren’t trade secrets relating to the production of a product, they’re legal methods that will, if pursued properly, result in a court case. They are acting to detect something that is regarded as a criminal offense, and they use detection in public channels to do so. In these instances, the public has some right to know about the nature of the investigations. The matter is balancing this with proper protection of the companies secrets.

        • Lulz

          And in some states they have to be licensed in order to do what they are doing. There’s laws about how to NOT do what they are doing… Think they care?

        • Ven

          Then the judge/jury (as representatives of the law) should be privately reviewing these materials, and then deciding how they should be considered in the case.

          And these aren’t criminal cases: they are civil lawsuits.

        • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

          @Ven /

          And these aren’t criminal cases: they are civil lawsuits.

          You said it…..
          And the MPAA are a company……
          So WHY should they be granted the same privilege that law enforcement get ? ….
          Or are the MPAA now criminal investigators ?…. with government powers ?…..

          They are a private company intent on maintaining the old business models….
          The fact that Pirates ( aka.. FileSharers ) spend more money on content than non-fans… is LOST on them..

          They will look fucking stupid if they admit ….. Piracy is not that bad…. Pirates are not thieves and are DEFINITELY not freeloaders….

          And before you jump on my comment with an anti-pirate slander……..

          I bet…. I spend more than 100X more on content than NON-Pirates do…. I am a fan… (usually spend £60 pm on music tickets at clubs .. £1000-£3000 on festivals including transport per year…. And go to the cinema about 10-12 times per year)

          WHAT the fuck do “non pirates” do ? …. buy 2-3 shitty DVDs a year and 2-3 cinema outings….

          So the MPAA can go fuck themselves….

          They have no balls…. they can’t face reality……
          The longer they try to cling on to the stupid business models…. the worse it is going to be when they eventually proclaim…. “piracy isn’t bad , we lied”.

          ### sorry for the angry rant….topical reason tho…. £600 on Creamfields tickets (including podpad) and the F-in Airline want near 300 quid for return flights….
          Tempted to get the bus…..

          creamfields.com … be there or be an anti-pirate … anti-share … anti-love troll…..

        • Ven

          @ANoiXioNA

          These are the same privileges everyone gets. If someone infringes on your rights, you have the right to take them to court for it. You hire investigators or do the footwork yourself, and then provide evidence to the court.

          There is nothing shady going on here: the MPAA wants Hotfile to show they have a mildly successful system for combating IP theft (an entirely reasonable request under the law). We all know that it is fundamentally impossible for a cyberlocker site to monitor files that way, so Hotfile is going to lose on that count.

          So instead, Hotfile’s lawyers are attempting to undermine that solid argument by trying to get the MPAA’s anti-piracy technologies and strategies publicized, where we all agree they would find weak IP-address farming and other poor methods. Those poor methods however have nothing to do with Hotfile’s inability to stem infringement.

        • Haxor

          its cause the methods they use are inmost countries considered illegal , thats ONLY reason they wont tell anyone. IF all it is the worry that some might circumvent the gathering then realize is there a hack around the encryption most commonly used?

          is ovh style backdooring of encryption more common then people realize?

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          @Ven

          “Then the judge/jury (as representatives of the law) should be privately reviewing these materials, and then deciding how they should be considered in the case.”

          Here’s the problem with that – by keeping the method of information gathering a secret from the defendant and his legal counsel they are, in effect, depriving him of his ability to call expert testimony in his favor.

          I.e. they are circumventing the defendants ability to defend himself at all. The Judge and the Jury, being considered impartial, should NOT be the ones who have to assemble the expertise to dispute or confirm the evidence. That is up to accuser and defendant.

          And the defendant can not reasonably do so in this case.

      • Anonymous

        @ANoiXioNA

        Can you ever get ANYTHING right?
        The MPAA is not a “company”, it’s a trade organization of movies, home video and television, charged with advocacy for the industry and the employees of that industry. The MPAA has no products, no shareholders, it doesn’t sell anything, it doesn’t buy anything. It offers a service to protect and advocate for professional motion picture makers.

        Honestly. There is so little point debating here with pirates who know virtually nothing. it’s like debating with beauty school drop outs.

        • Momo

          You are right. They are not a company, they are a cartel. They are a collusion of the major players in the movie industry, and they offer a services for price fixing, governmental corruption and persecution of innocents. The people who work for them are people who have no hearts and on morals and who are willing to put personal profit over democracy and progress. They are disgusting human beings who deserve everything that is coming to them.

        • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

          Nit picking… again…. So out of what I said ….

          you choose a (possible) semantic……. as as a basis of contention….. ?

          @Anonymous ….

          ……………………………………. DiNG DiNG ……………………………………………
          …………………………………..You win a prize………………………………………….
          …………..( …is that the second time you’ve won ? … lucky troll …)……………
          * maybe Jack Murdock won the last time.?..

          For Stupidest Defame attempt of the day………

          AND YOU ARE ……WRONG……( what…? … oh know I didn’t ….. ( yea.. I did) )

          Let me say that again …. in a childish “”beauty school drop out”" manner….


          wrong….wrong….wrong–wrong ….wrrrrong-wrong………

          nah…..nah……nah-nah…….naaaah–nah…………

          “” Honestly. There is so little point debating here with pirates Anti-pirates who know virtually nothing. “”

          Whoops up side of your head………..with a dictionary……. you know how it be ?

          Company……the members of an enterprise not specifically mentioned in the enterprise’s title…….

          Among other definitions….. ( SOME Americans disregard words because of what they THINK the word means… )

          so…..MPAA founded in 1922 and is designed to advance the business interests of its members.
          Somewhat a company then………

          You can’t even Pick a Nit correctly…..
          ( maybe you where thinking of PLC , LLC or….something similar )

        • Anonymous

          Momo, you call people working in the Motion Picture industry “disgusting” and whine about due process while you advocate “democracy and progress” in the form of digital content theft online? Aren’t you the clever one. “Due process” would require you tell your government the prices are too high, the content is all crap anyway, you are entitled to take whatever you want. And gather the votes to get them to vote your way. That’s playing “due process” checkers and most pirates don’t even do that. They just torrent and laugh about VPN’s and wifi hacking. So the masses of people don’t actually support you, they don’t even rise to your defense.

          Our due process is like three dimensional chess compared to your checkers, we are slowly but inevitably taking abused rights away until the internet is subject to identical standards of accountability as any other realm. Better still Momo, we get to lobby to punishment you; higher fines and eyewatering life changing findings at the hands of a 12 person jury of a pirates’ peers. The cheers at these punishments would disturb you but you can’t do anything to us. Do you see? You get to steal movies and we get to work within the legal Democratic system to write the rules to our favor so we can legally monitor your connection, deep inspect your packets and hold you guilty until you squirm away if you have deep enough pockets to do it. That’s all fair, right? That’s the game we’re playing now. We tried to warn you.

          For the first several years after Napster, the industries spent tens of millions on education, explaining what a “license to possess” is and why you have never had the rights to duplication and distribution. That education has been curtailed now, with the budget going straight to the Senators writing COICA, IP Protect, the ACTA. And you know what? Those little laws are just the thin edge of the wedge. And Spain will come around if they like trading with the United States of America. Without a gun and a willingness to use it you are over your head, little buddy.

          After the wrap for the day motion picture makers go to the bar and discuss piracy just as you do. They are relieved and not so secretly thrilled that the way this is working out, you get to whine and steal files while they get to suggest laws that strip you of the most important freedoms you ever had, but you are now losing to your abuse of them. In the most literal sense, lawmakers, movie studios, indie recording labels, game developers and smartphone app makers all see now that you and yours no longer qualify for these freedoms because you can’t be trusted to use them legally. Piracy is everywhere. All we have to do is point this out and write a check. This works quite well for us.

          So if you think motion picture makers are “disgusting”, you probably don’t know any. They are just regular folks like you but with a difference. People who work at that level in the arts are smarter and more talented than almost anyone, they work harder than virtually anybody, they are rewarded on a monumental scale you can’t even dream of and their cultural legacy will endure centuries long after your pithy crap has gone to dust. Hang around, Momo, and learn. The industries sat and watched for awhile to see if you’d come to your senses but you didn’t and so now we are where we are. We don’t care about your rights anymore and if you think this is disgusting, Momo, you’re gonna love next year and the year after that.

        • Anonymous

          Momo, you call people working in the Motion Picture industry “disgusting” and whine about due process while you advocate “democracy and progress” in the form of digital content theft online? Aren’t you the clever one. “Due process” would require you tell your government the prices are too high, the content is all crap anyway, you are entitled to take whatever you want. And gather the votes to get them to vote your way. That’s playing “due process” checkers and most pirates don’t even do that. They just torrent and laugh about VPN’s and wifi hacking. So the masses of people don’t actually support you, they don’t even rise to your defense.

          Our due process is like three dimensional chess compared to your checkers, we are slowly but inevitably taking abused rights away until the internet is subject to identical standards of accountability as any other realm. Better still Momo, we get to lobby to punishment you; higher fines and eyewatering life changing findings at the hands of a 12 person jury of a pirates’ peers. The cheers at these punishments would disturb you but you can’t do anything to us. Do you see? You get to steal movies and we get to work within the legal Democratic system to write the rules to our favor so we can legally monitor your connection, deep inspect your packets and hold you guilty until you squirm away if you have deep enough pockets to do it. That’s all fair, right? That’s the game we’re playing now. We tried to warn you.

          For the first several years after Napster, the industries spent tens of millions on education, explaining what a “license to possess” is and why you have never had the rights to duplication and distribution. That education has been curtailed now, with the budget going straight to the Senators writing COICA, IP Protect, the ACTA. And you know what? Those little laws are just the thin edge of the wedge. And Spain will come around if they like trading with the United States of America. Without a gun and a willingness to use it you are over your head, little buddy.

          After the wrap for the day motion picture makers go to the bar and discuss piracy just as you do. They are relieved and not so secretly thrilled that the way this is working out, you get to whine and steal files while they get to suggest laws that strip you of the most important freedoms you ever had, but you are now losing to your abuse of them. In the most literal sense, lawmakers, movie studios, indie recording labels, game developers and smartphone app makers all see now that you and yours no longer qualify for these freedoms because you can’t be trusted to use them legally. Piracy is everywhere. All we have to do is point this out and write a check. This works quite well for us.

          So if you think motion picture makers are “disgusting”, you probably don’t know any. They are just regular folks like you but with a difference. People who work at that level in the arts are smarter and more talented than almost anyone, they work harder than virtually anybody, they are rewarded on a monumental scale you can’t even dream of and their cultural legacy will endure centuries long after your pithy crap has gone to dust. Hang around, Momo, and learn. The industries sat and watched for awhile to see if you’d come to your senses but you didn’t and so now we are where we are. We don’t care about your rights anymore and if you think this is disgusting, Momo, you’re gonna love next year and the year after that.

        • Ryzzo

          @Doucheholethetroll

          A+ on the rant and demonstrating your true moral character as an individual and as a part of the MAFIAA. What you basically just said is “We’re rich enough that we can strip away the rights and freedoms of citizens worldwide because we don’t want to change to market demands. Also, fuck all our customers!”

          What a world class piece of shit! You can pass all the draconian laws that your pockets can afford and it still won’t put a dent in sharing. All you are doing is punishing your potential customers for things they probably didn’t even do. People like me who share content will always find a way around whatever roadblocks you place in front of us. Sure you’ll make the occasional example out of a Jamie Thomas or Richard O’Dwyer, but unlike the MAFIAA, the sharing community thrives on innovation and changes to meet demand and market conditions. You are forcing our best and brightest to come up with new ways to avoid your monitoring, new ways to become anonymous, and more efficient ways to share content and culture with more people than ever before. You should take a lesson from the sharing community’s playbook and learn how to change with the times. It’s an uphill battle you can never win, and using it as an excuse to strip civil liberties and freedoms from your consumers is pathetic.

          History has shown that people can only stand back and tolerate so much before the people take back what is theirs. Just know that the next time it happens, you brought it on yourselves. People keep telling you what they want, and you keep refusing to listen. You are nothing without your consumers. Never forget that!

        • social commenter

          My first thought was to tell you go F*ck off then after saying and i quote “Honestly. There is so little point debating here with pirates who know virtually nothing.”
          But then i thought little person, little brain…..little ;)

          If “The MPAA is not a “company”, it’s a trade organization of movies, home video and television, charged with advocacy for the industry and the employees of that industry” as you state in your own words then it is still open to public scrutiny to show that the methods it employs are not gained by illegal ways…

          As has been said before on here the so called “pirates who know virtually nothing” probably buy more F*cking music and movies plus other products than you do in 1 year cos i’m guessing your an #indrysider and they get all their shit free from record companies and movie companies and whoever elses arse they may be licking at the time much like a dj gets free promos but at least they give back to the community unlike #indrysider’s who take everything they are offered.

          Just had to get that out of the way and btw fyi i don’t comeback and recheck posts after i log so you trolls go troll but i’m sure someone out there has a troll zapper as we seem to be over bloody run by them these days.

        • social commenter

          Oh! and PS : your obvious allusion to Grease means you know what a beauty school drop out is which also means you should also know that the character that song was about eventually came out on top…

          Does this mean you like pink ? i wonder ! ha ha ha ha

        • http://www.adcouponcodes.info BeautySchoolDropout

          @Anonymous wote:
          “It is not a “company”
          “It offers a service to protect…” your own words. Offers a service is key, the business model for revenue might not be a product but somehow millions get paid into its coffers. Let me see some volunteers run it and I might cut you some slack…troll.

          Motion Picture Producers and Distributors Association of America an Incorporated business combine was formed to fight off government censorship of the movie industry but later changed its name to the current one, MPAA. I guess you could try to call it a lobby group with an extremely aggressive legal arm. Calling it a cartel or a racketeering organization might be more fitting.

          Essentially you are saying it is not a business…it is just a business. And you suggest that since they have no physical products that the legal services, lobbyist services, and marketing/PR for the industry somehow is not really business. Its just some altruistic organization I suppose… Even though I have not seen a corporation without shareholder(s)…you just say they do not have any and I guess it magically becomes true.

          “Honestly. There is so little point debating here with pirates who know virtually nothing. it’s like debating with beauty school drop outs.”

          Arrogant and ignorant troll…

          Maybe you should try Beauty School yourself because your logic is certainly ugly.

  • Guest123

    I can see where this is going….

    • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

      I can’t but I’ll be delighted if they have to give all the info to Hotfile.

      But I can see what the secret info is:

      1- We set up a good cage with computers and many bananas.
      2- We put some monkeys to open their p2p programs and surf the net to get torrents/connections in specialized sites (www.thepiratebay.org and Google)
      3- Monkeys get screenshots from the p2p programs running the transfers.
      4- ????
      5- Profit.

      • dude

        4 – Sue random people for downloading gay porn / shitty movies.

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          LOL. Score ;)

          *thumbs up*

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          4 – Sue random people who may or may not actually be guilty as the error margin from a p2p screenshot, assuming no one actively spoofs or misdirects, is 13%.

      • Elisa ? Knockout™

        lol funny but true.

        • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

          All we need now is the first letter for downloading…. Brazilian fart porn

          Google it : or … http://tinyurl.com/3abx642 ( first link )

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          Why did you have to say Brazilian? :(
          I’m not clicking that…

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          I’m very tempted to click that… But I’ll resist (? ` ? ´) ?

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          Eu não quero ver!

        • Randomer

          lol @ANoiX

          The link is just a link to google : searching for
          Brazilian fart porn

          search on google , then click the first link to a Video of Brazilian fart porn.

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          Noooo, I am Brazilian…. ?_?

        • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

          Sorry @Elisa Didn’t mean to offend your brain waves……

          The fact that it’s called Brazilian is irrelevant…..

          It is funny as hell………

          “fart porn” …. seriously… that exists ? … I still can’t fully believe it… Funny as…

          You really have to see it to believe it….

          Just wondering ?

          * What do you …..and Brazilians in general….eat… ? :¬) lol .does it smell nice ?

          no offence meant… but I had to. :¬) …… it really is funny

        • Elisa ? Knockout™

          lmao,I’m not offended I just don’t want to look at other girls farting.:(

          Besides that it makes Brazilian girls look we’re all the same like that. Which is totally not true.

          Brazilian foods good. Mostly rice ,beans, steaks, fruits, breads lol we eat normal!!But you won’t see Brazilians going to McDonald’s like in the u.s. getting fat.

          Mostly during lunch Brazilians eat at home. Practically everyone is a model girls under 125 pounds and muscular guys. lol I know you’re teasing me which is ok. I’m really not offended really ;p

    • Ryzzo

      Gotta love the drug trafficking analogy. The drug trade is one of the better comparisons to online filesharing because the war on filesharing has been about as effective as the war on drugs… ROFL!

    • Ryzzo

      Gotta love the drug trafficking analogy. The drug trade is one of the better comparisons to online filesharing because the war on filesharing has been about as effective as the war on drugs… ROFL!

    • Guest123

      Why must there be someone else using this name? I claim dominion. There can be only one!

      • Anonymous

        Wait, I was gonna say “there can be only one”. Damnit! You beat me to it. No fair! I think you guys should duel it out. Winner takes the name.

  • http://otester.myopenid.com/ PiRat

    Comparing yourself to another tyranny, substance bans, not so wise.

  • T3ngu

    @ven
    You have a super market and you get sued for the items you have in stock. Wouldn’t you want all possible details of the items that you shall not carry in case someone tries to sue you again?

    • Danny

      +1

      It seems stupid that the MPAA aren’t more willing to help hotfile, and the like, detect these kinds of uploads to their sites by supplying them with this information or technology in the first place. Obviously they have some other motive….

      • De

        Obviously, the MPAA have switched their business model from selling content to suing people! God is it that hard to see? Pirates are stupid.

      • De

        Obviously, the MPAA have switched their business model from selling content to suing people! God is it that hard to see? Pirates are stupid.

        • Ven

          Take a look at the finances: legal settlements are in no way as lucrative as selling content, and they know it.

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          @Ven

          “Take a look at the finances: legal settlements are in no way as lucrative as selling content, and they know it.”

          Yes, but the “MPAA” aren’t selling media. They are selling a service – lobbying for and enforcing copyright. If that methods can generate an additional stream of revenue, that method will see usage.

          Of course, any reasonable legislation should have problems reconciling a business method which is most accurately described as an extortion scheme/protection racket. To boot, one which relies on “evidence” less reliable than third-party hearsay in order to get backing by the judicial arm of state and government.

    • Ven

      The MPAA is willing to hand over the DMCA notices, to identify the products that shouldn’t be there. If the company wants to keep secrets from the public, they are perfectly within their rights to do so and the courts need to have a good reason to force release.

      To be clear: I believe the court needs to review these methods. If Hotfile is legally allowed to view this information then so be it. However, there is no need for it to become public information. In the U.S., prosecuting information is only obligated to the defendant if it is going to be used as evidence. In this case, the mechanisms by which the DMCA notices are arrived at is not evidence; how Hotfile handled said notices is.

      The case is not about how the MPAA works, who it decides to pick on, and so forth: it is a case that MPAA brought against Hotfile for not responding properly to notices.

      • Tired

        the moment you bring a lawsuit against anyone…you have forfeited the right to privacy about anything that has to do with the nature of the lawsuit. Hotfile is trying to see if there was anything that the MPAA has done to break the law in their pursuit to recoup money it never lost or earned. The thing is without transparency we can not tell if they forced their way into Hotfile’s servers to aquire the knowledge of what was on them or if it was done legally.

        If you stole a watch from me and i broke into your home to find out if you had my watch…Then my case is thrown out because I had broken the law!

        • Ven

          This is not true: burden of proof is yours if you expect a favorable ruling, but you are not required by law to disclose everything regarding your methods. You can have a weak argument fail to convince a judge, or get targeted for a harassment suit if you offer nothing concrete at all, but otherwise you can show what you wish.

          And the MPAA/RIAA don’t need to hack cyber-lockers to fight them in court: all they have to do is show that the automated file hosting and sharing system has no functioning way to filter out illicit content.

          This really should be a slam dunk case for the copyright holders. I just can’t see any logical way a judge could uphold current law without ruling against a cyber-locker’s complete lack of control of what gets shared on their servers.

      • http://www.adcouponcodes.info BeautySchoolDropout

        You are begging the question (logical fallacy). First you associate file sharing (a civil issue) with a criminal offense and state prosecuting information is only obligated to the defendant…. Uh…see the problem. This is not “prosecution” this is a lawsuit. Companies are afforded no such “rights”. MPAA is not exposing a patent or a trade secret. Hotfile would be more in the right arguing about the disclosure of its website script/sourcode which is arguably a trade secret.

        “The case is not about how the MPAA works, who it decides to pick on, and so forth: it is a case that MPAA brought against Hotfile for not responding properly to notices” —Sorry, this is civil buddy and once you file the suit YOUR business practices, decision processes, data collection methods, accuracy of your information…etc all come into play. You really are looking at the law as a one sided club. Sort of in the way that rich businesses and lawyers do…

        • Ven

          I disagree patently. Here is the reference document regarding civil cases in Florida:

          http://www.flcourts.org/gen_public/cmplx_lit/bin/reference/Court%20Innovations/Case%20Management%20Strategies/Florida%20Rules%20Of%20Civil%20Procedure%20re%20Complex%20Litig.doc

          In a civil case, discovery is allowed within the following limitation: ” It is not ground for objection that the information sought will be inadmissible at the trial if the information sought appears reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence.” (Rule 1.280.b). At any time, the plaintiff is allowed to deny discovery by removing disputed evidence from admission. Also note, that there are a series of protections a judge can offer to privileged information should he deem it necessary (Rule 1.228.5.c).

          Rule 1.228.5.e: “A party who has responded to a request for discovery with a response that was complete when made is under no duty to supplement the response to include information thereafter acquired.”

          So, if Hotfile agreed to allow evidence without exercising their right to discovery, or had their initial request for discovery met, they can no longer request more material on that same evidence.

          Basically, MPAA is not obligated to disclose anything they do not want. If the judge rules that said discovery is necessary for evidence to stand, the MPAA has the option of simply removing the evidence from the suit. And unless Hotfile can convince a judge that this discovery is necessary, he will deny the request anyway.

      • Scary Devil Monastery

        “However, there is no need for it to become public information. In the U.S., prosecuting information is only obligated to the defendant if it is going to be used as evidence. In this case, the mechanisms by which the DMCA notices are arrived at is not evidence”

        Actually there is a need. If I provide a set of numbers on a sheet of paper and claim that this is the adress which distributed a file to other adresses, then the minimum you must provide is the mechanism by which you obtained that information.

        This is standard jurisprudence. If there is not total transparency as to how a piece of information to be used as evidence was obtained then you are inevitably left with a situation where anyone can make an accusation about anything without the need to prove the veracity of their claim.

        Which is why it’s been a long-running standard by judges to dismiss any evidence where the origin could not be verified from a case.

  • Elisa ? Knockout™

    Typical mpaa thinking they have power to overturn the law. Sounds like their hiding something.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah actually, i think they are hiding something that is violating civil liberties. Like DPI on all traffic that goes through one of their servers/hubs or something.

      • Elisa ? Knockout™

        Ofcourse they are.

    • brudda

      “their”? No wonder trolls think we’re all idiots…

      • Elisa ? Knockout™

        As you know, no ones perfect not even you!

  • Guest978

    Time to try some injections in their servers ,and and expose the world their anti-piracy strategies !

    • Jmorse43508

      Paging LulzSec & Anonymous!

      We “pirates” have another job for you.

  • Zzzz

    Even drug traffickers get to know where and how the authorities gained the evidence against them.

  • http://www.jveweb.net/en/ jvalenciae

    Are they aware that they are NOT a law enforcement agency protecting the population?

  • Jimbo

    you have to give up any and all information that may be helpful to your conviction but you are not allowed to have information that may be helpful to your defence. almost sounds fair, i don’t think! if the evidence the MPAA have is accurate, they should have no problems disclosing it or how it was obtained. it doesn’t mean it has to be made public, but both sides should be equally advantaged/disadvantaged. it’s like convincing an enemy to dismantle nuclear weapons, on promise that you will do the same but your way of dismantleing is to fire them at the enemy instead.

    • Ven

      This case is the MPAA being unhappy with Hotfiles’ methods for dealing with infringement. If the MPAA can show evidence that Hotfile is slipping, then the court will launch an investigation (at which point Hotfile will be required to share the processes by which they combat infringement).

      The MPAA only needs to defend the quality of it’s evidence. As this is a civil proceeding and not criminal, the MPAA should not be required to hand anything over they don’t want to. If that hurts the credibility of their evidence, that gives them a tough choice between releasing information and having a weak argument.

      If/when Hotfile files a counter-suit, saying that the MPAA is unfairly targeting and/or harassing them, then the court could order release of that information.

      • Gene_Poole

        If they don’t give the defense everything necessary to mount a successful defense, it will be appealed, and the defense will win. You can’t insist that they’re not allowed the basic info necessary to build a defense for themselves.

        • Ven

          Basic info is in regards to evidence brought against you in court. If Hotfile can convince a judge that there is a possibility evidence was gathered illegally, the judge can make the MPAA choose between divulging methods or throwing that specific evidence out.

          In this case, the MPAA has no evidence entered that requires covert methods to obtain: listings of copyrighted works and their corresponding number, and the Hotfile FAQ. They are attempting to show that Hotfile would rather reward infringing members than deal with DMCA notices.

          History of the DMCA leads me to believe that Hotfile will lose.

        • Anonymous

          @ Ven

          Well I’m not sure what you know or what they believe. But if you check Hotfile. Like search for a new movie, just google Captain America Hotfile (I think, I’m actually too lazy to check for myself at the moment just to prove my point, but feel free to do so) and see what comes up. Eventually you’ll end up on the Hotfile page where the link is hosted. More often than not, you’ll see that the films are removed almost immediately. Which shows that DMCA notices are effect, contrary to what the MPAA would have you believe.

          And while Hotfile and other cyberlockers do “reward” for downloads. They aren’t doing so at the expense of DMCA takedown notices. They get them, they remove what’s put up. There is a system in place and it is effective.

          It appears all this is is an attempt by the MPAA to just make a big deal over nothing. Well, not over nothing. But it’s basically up to them to find infringing material and bring it to Hotfile’s attention. It appears they don’t like this. They’d prefer to just have the work done for them. And while it is possible, it’s not exactly easy. Youtube has something similar. If you post tv shows (being the easiest example) they do get removed. There’s software or something in place which removes it automatically. However it can be beat. A simple flip and that’s it. It’s not up to Youtube (Google) to scour every single video on there to remove infringing material. It’s just not possible. Same here. Hotfile removes things as they’re made aware of them. But they can’t dedicate the time and energy into checking every single thing. It’s the MPAA’s problem. There’s a system in place to protect their interest and they don’t want to do the work, that’s their problem.

          They can’t say they aren’t being met halfway. Well, they can, but that doesn’t make it so.

        • Ven

          @electric_worry

          Unfortunately, Hotfile has made a great deal of changes to their business practices (and ToU) since this circus rolled into town (no doubt their lawyers encouraging them to look as good as possible). That said, I just found a working Hotfile link Thor for download in about 15 seconds.

          Based on legal threats and proceedings regarding streaming sites like Youtube, we know that the judge will be looking for Hotfile to show what kinds of methods they use to fight ongoing infringement. One issue mentioned in the initial complaint claims that Hotfile offers premium users 5 different links for each download, making DMCA notices that many times harder to serve. If this is the case, Hotfile had better have a fairly well thought-out reason why that service is offered or they will get hammered.

          But Hotfile gets millions of users visiting every month: with that kind of volume the judge will look for some kind of automation in the takedown process (like what YT has). If Hotfile says they take each takedown notice by hand and deal with it, the court will then look at how many employees Hotfile has and decide how reasonably effective the methods are. We have seen several times now where simply responding to DMCA notices as they come is not considered aggressive enough a stance for companies to take online.

          “They can’t say they aren’t being met halfway. Well, they can, but that doesn’t make it so. ”

          And this is basically what the judge has to decide: who (if anyone) is not doing their share to deal with the issue at hand?

        • Anonymous

          @ Ven

          Hmm didn’t know about them making changes. I avoid Hotfile. I use Mediafire as a cyberlocker to share documents with coworkers. Ditto random pictures and docs with friends and family. We tend to get consistent upload speeds on it.

          As for that working link for Thor, you can’t make anything of it. I mean, you can’t say with certainty whether or not a DMCA notice has been sent regarding it. And as is currently how it works, Hotfile needs to be notified of it. It’s not their job to scour the ‘net searching for every infringing link.

          Also, you can’t go with a straight up automatic takedown. Jack Murdock mentioned something like that before, but he did so without actually thinking it through. Imagine if there was one. It would scour each link and look at the filename within. Say as it’s automation it bases it on key words. “Captain America” “Thor” “xvid” etc. It then begins taking down those things. Well, there are uses for those things besides being infringed items. I wrote a paper on Captain America in high school, couldn’t print it. So I put it online somewhere and my teacher checked it from his home computer. Care to guess what it was called? “Captain America”. Lol. Not original I know, but wtf do you want from me. (I was in high school.) That would’ve gotten taken down. And we’re basing this on key words (not file formats). Not the best example, but basically you get the idea. Automated takedown isn’t effective. It will remove material that isn’t copyrighted. Which is what you don’t want. Because then they may lose legitimate customers.

          While we have seen that responding to DMCA notices isn’t considered aggressive enough, we haven’t seen anything from someone in a proper position (i.e. a judge) saying that isn’t enough. So far, every time, it’s been determined to meet reasonable expectations on proper response to said notices. It gets done as soon as someone’s made aware of it. Like I said, in this case, it appears the MPAA is tired of doing the work. And thus they’re pushing for more “stringent” measures.

          It seems to me, and I’m not the judge, that everyone is equally putting in their fair share of “work” in dealing with DMCA notices. Hotfile gets ‘em and takes down the material. MPAA sends out the notices. If anything this kind of move will prove one thing. If say they produce a random link on the spot and find something like you did. It can hurt them. Because Hotfile can then show whether or not they received a DMCA takedown notice. If they haven’t it looks like the MPAA isn’t doing it’s part. Then again vice versa. But I doubt Hotfile isn’t on the ball with all this going on. Meanwhile, as is evidenced by your search, the MPAA isn’t (as far as issuing notices). Interesting all around.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zack-Nelson/1287355169 Zack Nelson

    Seeing how the MPAA is filing the lawsuit, the burden of proof is on them. They should have to disclose how they found the content in question, and how explain how and why it’s infringing.

    Contrary to to copyright infringement/drug traffiking comparison being made, local law enforcement personal (the cops you see on the street every day) tend to be transparent in their crime fighting methods. Patrolmen also prove that criminals commit crimes, and even do so by telling the courts how they do their jobs. The MPAA on the other hand, thinks it can win a lawsuit while keeping their IP enforcement practices in secret, with the courts not knowing whether or not they are doing their jobs right.

    • http://twitter.com/K1rkpad Dylan Kirkpatrick

      Right on. Them not proving how the evidence was obtained is like the police saying “Yeah we found these drugs, and we know they were trafficked by this guy, but that’s all we can tell you. Convict him.”

    • Ven

      They don’t have to track IPs to pound Hotfile. All they have to show is that they served DMCA notices, and Hotfile didn’t respond quickly/completely enough. All it takes is one notice and the court will force Hotfile to prove it has taken measures to combat future infringement.

      Since cyber-lockers really have no way whatsoever of dealing with infringement, my guess is that Hotfile gets pounded on this one.

      • Fab

        If you read other article you will see WarnerBros were provided with copyright tool and they can delete ANY file they want.
        They even dont need to send DMCA!
        And as it’s expected – the used this tool on wrong way and delete many files and innocent people’s accounts….

  • Anonymous

    “The general message is that their anti-piracy strategies should remain secret to prevent an avalanche of piracy.”

    ummm, did anyone else think “too late” at this point? :)

    • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

      Me o/

      And I laughed when I read your post.

      I doubt that revealing that they ‘printscreen the utorrent peerlist and use as evidence’ tactics would change how ppl download…

  • Randy Lahey

    “The Florida based file-hosting service..”

    Well there’s your problem guys. Move offshore and this will pretty much go away. Pick an island off the coast of South America, that’s a very popular place for hosting.
    Those idiots dont have any “Strategies” besides paying people loads of money to write laws and even more money to deputize the FBI as the copyright police. I could have thought of that one, not too smart now is it?

  • SethoftheSea

    I reckon they just don’t want to hand out how they gather infringing IP addresses because what ever system they use is not going to be 100% perfect so then in front of a court they would lose face from how their IP gathering abilities are a load of crap

    • Danny

      I’m pretty sure they just use a random number generator to find the IP addresses!

    • Reader

      I believe that one of the methods they’re trying to protect by this is that they actually upload material to cyberlockers themselves so they can convict based on that… they wouldn’t want a dirty little secret like that being aired out in public court :P

      • Fasdfscag

        That’s also what I was thinking.
        They create an account, upload to it, then file a DMCA to have it removed and they watch if Hotfile complies. This is entrapment and they could be sued for a fake filing DMCA take-down notice.
        Or they hacked their servers.

        Hotfile is perfectly right in asking how they found out about the files.

        • Ven

          Entrapment only applies to government officers. Your scenario would more appropriately be called a sting, or a test run of the system set in place to fight infringement. However, there is no logical need for the MPAA to upload it’s own file, as they would merely be interested in the time it takes to go from sending the takedown notice to the file actually being taken down. It is just as straightforward for the MPAA to simply track a legitimate DMCA notice and corresponding file.

          And what files are you referring to in your last sentence? I’ve only seen the MPAA bring the Hotfile FAQ, copyright listings, and DMCA notices as evidence.

  • RIAAtarded

    well it is good for the defense they have excellent grounds for appeal and to have the verdict overturned. full disclosure is a right to mount a proper defense and withholding anything either good or bad can and will effect the outcome. They can’t just say you’re caught and not show cause. As for the comparison to drug deals why is the judge even allowing that crap. There is no comparison, you give out an informants name he’ll be killed. No 12yo downloading lady gaga is going to respond in that manner. For the rest of the info it is given out it is called mounting a case. Hell not so sure the names aren’t given you have a right to face your accusers and they have witness protection for just that reason. Can’t imagine it being needed in a filesharing case…lol…Lets be honest the only reason they won’t let details be known is their “techniques” are flawed at best and won’t stand up to cross examination.

  • in.cog.nito

    Please don’t tell them we use google or a rapidshare indexing search service to find the files…

    Shut the fuck up MPAA.

    • Holy

      I don’t think they are suing the big one like google or tpb.

      They little easy one.

  • Simonwynn

    Hilarious.. That’s got them by the short and curlies. Didnt the MPAA ask Hotfile for their trade secrets? Pot kettle black. Walk on. Any judge with an iota of conscience will bin this case.

  • Simonwynn

    Hilarious.. That’s got them by the short and curlies. Didnt the MPAA ask Hotfile for their trade secrets? Pot kettle black. Walk on. Any judge with an iota of conscience will bin this case.

  • Simonwynn

    Hilarious.. That’s got them by the short and curlies. Didnt the MPAA ask Hotfile for their trade secrets? Pot kettle black. Walk on. Any judge with an iota of conscience will bin this case.

  • Foff

    Perhaps some of the gathering techniques are not legal? If the MPAA or RIAA can spy on my ip and open what would be the equivalent of my mail. Can anyone do the same?
    I bet if someone wrote an ip spying software that allowed you to spy on everything your neighbor or anyone was doing on line or even find out what is on your hard drive it would not be long before strong new privacy laws were in place. If not no corporate secret would be safe, all politicians could easily be blackmailed as all their skeletons would be revealed. The internet would be a thieves and blackmailers paradise.

    • IDIOCRACY

      That software already exists a long time, IP-sniffer…. all traffic to and from your IP is then routed through a server of for example mine hehe

    • Ven

      That would be a great deal of work for relatively little benefit.

      Most likely it is a near-automated system that basically runs itself at low cost. Any time the pirate community gets wise, they would have to rebuild.

  • srsly

    To: MAFiAA
    From: Internet

    Anything you can do, we can do better ;)
    Kthxby.

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  • LalalaMan

    All Im saying is that the MPAA wants to setup a honeypot, let all the uploaders come in and get some money, then start kicking down their doors one by one when they subpoena ISPs, Paypal, Alertpay and list goes on…That is their way to stop it.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay

      And it still won’t stop piracy

  • Anonymous

    Am I the only one who caught just how funny in a not so obvious way the MPAA is being?

    Think about it. They’re basically using the “we can’t tell you, for the sake of national security” approach. They’re acting like the U.S. government (in a way), while at the same time actually having the gall to compare themselves to law enforcement. Which just tickles me so. How they can compare gathering IP addresses to gathering information on drug dealers/traffickers is beyond me. But I find myself thinking one thing, I seriously have to get my hands on some of those Hollywood “party favors” if it leads to that kind of wild leaps of imagination.

  • Anonymous

    They are all a bunch of A-Holes plain and simple. Big Middle Finger Salute to the MPAA web-privacy.au.tc

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  • Interested

    I would be interested if the whole of the major filesharer websites were brought to court. Would Hotfile be in a better Scenario if this happened? Surely the MPAA cant think that the only site who allows file uploads is Hotfile.

  • Reader

    interesting fox comment, but i’d counter that by saying that Hotfile are closer to a Rooster that wants to know how the sly, untrustworthy foxes keep finding out what chickens are inside the hen house!

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  • Whineyhoes

    All that this “secrecy” will cause is ,for some group to end hacking a system to get it. I really doubt that their trade secrets are under some pentagon/ft knox protection. Now that MPAA declared they dont want it let loose, it will be let loose soon.

    • Gene_Poole

      Barbara Streisand effect…

    • Gene_Poole

      Barbara Streisand effect…

  • Subrand0m

    They are calling for Hotfiles, Source code, and full users database. That is on the same level as saying, “Make me the CEO of your company.” That alone should have gotten this case thrown out. The Source code for the website and the servers belongs to Hotfile it is not like anyone else should see it. In the same sence that the Mpaa does not want to give out how it locates people, Hotfile does not want to give out how it builds it business. Telling the world in court means that every other hosting company can copy them. That will just kill their business, and giving away the User DB will mean the company loses all creditability within the internet. So yea Hotfile, you attack them where it hurts, get them to turn over the ways they look into piracy.

    • Payback

      and that type of discovery due to international nature of the user base should be a HUGE concern and it violates Canadian law if one canuck is handed over.

      I would then have someone sue the labels and mpaa for breach of privacy , slander , harrassment and defamtion of character and sue for 25000$ in small claims court with a note saying that if you settle i’ll take 5000.

      Imagine it only costs 110$ to file and do the paper work….

      Maybe i could start a business suing the mpaa….HAHHAAHA

  • http://mineshafter.appspot.com/ download13

    I think a more apt analogy would be that it’s like the fox asking what type of gun the farmer has.

  • Guest

    MPAA: “We want the IP address of everyone who has downloaded, uploaded or visited your site. Oh, and we also want your entire source code!”.
    Hotfile: “We want your anti-piracy strategy”.
    MPAA: “OMG NOWAI NOT OUR UBER SEKRIT ANTI-PIRACY STRATEGY!!11 THAT’S A TRADE SECRET!!111″.

    Faggots.

    • Jew

      favorite comment

    • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

      Priceless. But true.

  • Guest

    MPAA: “We want the IP address of everyone who has downloaded, uploaded or visited your site. Oh, and we also want your entire source code!”.
    Hotfile: “We want your anti-piracy strategy”.
    MPAA: “OMG NOWAI NOT OUR UBER SEKRIT ANTI-PIRACY STRATEGY!!11 THAT’S A TRADE SECRET!!111″.

    Faggots.

  • http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/740147-neurotech-hd.html#post5637502 Jay

    Hotfile will need to know what procedures the MPAA takes in order to mount a proper defense. What’s keeping the MPAA from just making up a bunch of stuff and passing it off as fact? “We know this as a fact, Your Honor, but we can’t disclose how we know this.” Bullshit.

  • Death to economic terrorists

    @ ven , you said
    “These are the same privileges everyone gets. If someone infringes on your rights, you have the right to take them to court for it. You hire investigators or do the footwork yourself, and then provide evidence to the court.”

    AND what the defence is asking is what is commonly known as “DISCOVERY” look it up , every civilized court requires it of both sides so you are both able to have a proper court case. ITS so that proper rebuttals and proper law can be adjudicated in a humane way.

    IF i accuse you of murder and refuse to show how i know it , how can you say this is a proper legal way or in any way proper. Without discovery there is no law. IF the mpaa wants no law i say we start a physical revolution and start killing everyone that works for labels as i’m accusing them of economic terrorism and im not telling a jury how once they catch me….i’ll say its the same reason they use in this case.

    sound retarded yet? THE USA is BROKE europe is in huge bad shape and they are more worried aobut what poor are downloading then paying off debt etc. and more cash you force everyone to pay to entertainment less they buy and less other facets of the economy THAT provide more jobs and taxes, rather then a label that hides and uses loopholes.

    the usa needs to increase taxes on its rich OR else its done for. THE RICH can move and congregate in areas with paid guards. THE rest of the usa is

    ESCAPE FROM NY…….

    • Gene_Poole

      Ranting aside, I agree with this. Discovery, that’s exactly right.

      The MPAA can choose not to release the information the defense has requested. They can make this choice by choosing to withdraw the suit against Hotfile.

      If they choose to pursue the suit, they have an obligation to provide the defense with all the info they themselves have; full disclosure, in order to give the defense a chance to mount a…wait for it…a defense.

      Go figure that they wouldn’t want that.

      If for some reason some judge bought out by lobbying agrees with the request, the defense will win out on appeal. Simple.

    • Ven

      From Wikipedia:

      “Under the law of the United States, civil discovery is wide-ranging and can involve any material which is ‘reasonably calculated to lead to admissible evidence.’ ”

      So tell me how the admissible evidence (the Hotfile FAQ and copyright listings, and DMCA takedown notices) requires discovery into how they were obtained? How does that discovery possibly come back to any real practices of the MPAA?

      Here is how discovery for those goes:

      Hotfile FAQ: “We Googled it.”
      Copyright Listings: “We keep them on file, because they are our copyrights.”
      DMCA Notices: “We keep them on file, so we can have court cases like this one if need be.”

      Everything else that the MPAA offers (should they offer anything else) would have been investigated and reported on by an independent firm, which the MPAA lawyers know is necessary for a good argument in court.

  • LOL!

    anyone watched the film (or whatever it was) about the guy who invented the machine that provides infinite energy? it was a huge box with a spinning axle, later on though, they found a tramp sitting inside spinning the handle… moral of story… screw all bullsh1ters

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  • Foff

    I am guessing this is some sort of test case to see how to take down this sort of site. Or how to attack those who use this type of site. At this point they have no way of obtaining ip addresses of uploaders and downloaders. Downloaders have nothing to worry about because the most they could get from a down loader would be the cost of the work which is not worth even a letter.

    They need download records to go after uploaders so they can say x file was shared x number of times. If hotfile even keeps this info they ought to say oh sorry all the information was accidentally deleted too bad. Hotfile is not the upload service du jour anymore.

    Do cyber lockers really have that much legit business? If I was hotfile I would just shut down overnight move somewhere and start a new one. The mpaa would have a hard time suing a company that no longer exists.

    • Anon

      Now that’s really standing proudly for what you believe in. You tell ‘em, Foff.

      • Anonymous

        As opposed to basically laughing maniacally that you’re stripping awhile people’s rights because you have money and the ear of the government, who’ll make laws to your benefit and screw over others? Which is what you said earlier in the comments on here. You can change your username, Anon, but a leopard can’t change it’s spots. You give yourself away by your writing style.

        Oh, and the amusing part, in your earlier rant just basing on what you say, you actually prove what a hypocrite you are. You see, laughing that rights are being taken away and making a thing of it (in a positive way) automatically cancels out all the b*tching you do later. “They’re taking our rights cause of you thieves!” Sound familiar? You’ve said that essentially every day since you showed up here. And yet, up above, you were basically acting like a cheerleader and cheering about how awesome it is that they’re doing just that, taking away rights.

        • Anon

          Yes, I’ve been a recognizable “Anon” here for quite a while, (with a intentional style) but the “ymous” keeps adding and I keep taking it off, but Disqus keeps adding it again and now I can’t get rid of it. No clue.

        • Anon

          For the record, Electric, I think the path piracy has chosen to take is unwise and notably immature because it’s just foolish to repeatedly break laws and bitch when enforcement tries to stop you as if this were comparable to racial rights or something. Those comparisons never work out well for they are hilarious to anyone with a conscience and demean civil rights in the process.

          Worse, the end goal remains getting free stuff and everybody sees it now, just as it has been from the beginning and to this day is unchanged. And pirates make clear they will strive to use tech to hide and keep copying things they do not own. “Democracy and freedom” to steal digital content online. “Privacy rights” so you can hide. And all that dumbass crap we’ve heard for years.

          Hey, if you say so. it’s not like we haven’t listened to that rubbish.

          Legislators would be favorably impressed if piracy grew adult and organized, gathered the necessary votes, lobbied in such overwhelming numbers the worlds governments had no choice but to give it up and make the cash up in taxes redistributed back to the creative industries.

          But you and I both know with leadership like Rick Falkvinge, pirates will be hiding and stealing and bitching forever. And getting punished for it, too, bad punishments while claiming votes can’t trump cash which history shows us time and again, it always trumps cash when the majority is there. But it’s not. And it won’t be. People who work get paid to work and they pay for others work. People who pirate get caught. This gets simpler everyday. So keep stealing and being punished as you wish. It’s like theatre for us at this point. :-)

        • Anonymous

          Jesus Christ! I’m not going lie, I’m having a hard time believing that this exact reply wasn’t written by a completely different person. I’m sorry, I can’t reply to you. You might be a pod person.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay

          *sigh*

          @Anon(ymous)

          ” I think the path piracy has chosen to take is unwise and notably immature because it’s just foolish to repeatedly break laws and bitch when enforcement tries to stop you as if this were comparable to racial rights or something. ”

          You know the best thing about this argument? I can disprove it in one quote:

          If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. – Thomas Jefferson

          And just so we’re clear about this, since you brought it up, Martin Luther King Jr, Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi, and even Malcolm X would disagree with you about enforcement laws.

          They don’t demean the civil rights in any way. When the government behaves in a poor manner to make bad generalizations in law, then guess what, they’re at fault.

          “Worse, the end goal remains getting free stuff and everybody sees it now”
          Never was about getting “free stuff”. That just scares the MPAA because they would no longer be required if they’d learn to compete in the market place rather than use regulatory capture to piss people off.

          “”Democracy and freedom” to steal digital content online. “Privacy rights” so you can hide. And all that dumbass crap we’ve heard for years.”

          Yeah… So we have the right to express ourselves online and a right for the government not to intrude on our lives. That’s “dumbass crap?” Wow…

          “Legislators would be favorably impressed if piracy grew adult and organized, gathered the necessary votes, lobbied in such overwhelming numbers the worlds governments had no choice but to give it up and make the cash up in taxes redistributed back to the creative industries.”

          If your first stop in trying to make money is complain to the government, you’re doing it wrong.

          “And getting punished for it, too, bad punishments while claiming votes can’t trump cash which history shows us time and again, it always trumps cash when the majority is there.”

          Because 14 year old Whitney Harper owes so much for downloading songs on the internet that she’s killing the music business by herself.

          Or Jammie Thomas. She’s worth 1 million in damages.

          Or Joel Tenenbaum. Or all the other people that are sued for infringing a copyright.

          I wonder how much girltalk would be worth with all his remixes…?
          Or how much Youtube is worth for allowing him to post it free through their service?

          Funny, I guess you may have a point. All those “pirates” that use content unlawfully are greedy criminals! ARGH!

          “It’s like theatre for us at this point.”

          You’re right, it’s fun watching your disingenuous arguments. Keep it up. *thumbs up*

        • Anon

          @ Jay,

          Jay, I like that Jefferson quote too, but your reasoning is so faulty you diminish the importance of your own arguments. Did you reread what you actually wrote?

          “If a law is unjust” is the whole point and your assumption of correctness is not only arguable, and indeed is being debated at the highest levels, it undermines your entire thesis. You can’t beg the question and then assume it supports your assertions. Debate doesn’t actually work that way, nor legal reasoning in a courtroom. You sound as poorly informed as the rest.

          Perhaps more to the point, you have a very incorrect supposition to a “right for the government not to intrude in your lives.” Are you being serious?

          I can’t imagine where you ever got such an uninformed notion. Not only does a government have a right but a duty to step DIRECTLY into your life when unlawful behavior compels them. In your case because you defend online digital content theft, it’s the duty that comes into play. That legitimate constitutional duty based upon a democratic rule of law starts at local precincts and here in the states goes all the way to the Supreme Court. You can whine about how unfair the whole thing is but eventually, like Jammie and Joel and the rest, you’ll be telling it to the judge or jury, just as you always. That’s very likely to go unchanged.

          I’ve been suggesting for a long time someone with better leadership skills than Falkvinge organize an attempt at a genuine movement to require all digital merchandise to be free. The Napster decision is over a decade old now, but an intrinsic element in those who would steal content appears to dissipate any reality based solutions. The reality is pirates prefer to put their energies into layers of tech to mask unlawful behavior so they can continue to get free content rather than rise up to change the laws. It’s a choice. We all live by our choices which is why you’ll find remarkably little public uproar about Jammie and Joel and Whitney. There is virtually none, right? We can at least agree on that.

          So your argument doesn’t appear to actually be with me. Your argument is with reality and everything that implies. Be a martyr if you like, Jay, and recognize you will have opponents with a different but equally valid view of justice and they will work equally hard according to the law, whether you like it or whether you view law as corrupt. And prepare like Mandela to spend a lot of time in jail, too, and pray the world quickly realizes all digital work should be theirs for the taking so you can be freed and bask in your martyrdom. Disobedience of the law seems to be your world view and so I say have at it, man up and stop your childish complaining when others have a different view and legally work towards their own ends. That’s how civilization works.

          Do you honestly believe all this regulatory capture stuff would have come to the table without technology fueling the largest industrial ransacking in human history? Of course you do. lol Nice tin hat.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay

          @Anon(ymous)

          Ah, go on about the minutiae of the argument to the point of frivolity on your side. The argument stands and you’ve said nothing about the rest of it. It seems yours is the weaker one.

    • Ven

      A few things:

      If Hotfile provides a business arrangement with premium members, then they cannot simply delete information regarding accounts payable – that would land them in even worse trouble than massive copyright infringement.

      The MPAA is behaving similarly in this case to the actions behind the Limewire suit: go after an online business that pays people to share, in the hopes that you land a powerhouse ruling against companies/organizations with similar practices.

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  • Lubetube

    If they (MAFIAA) want to compare themselves to law enforcement, then they should also follow the rules of discovery just as a prosecutor would and hand over all the pertinent information.

  • DTS

    The MPAA is pleading the 5th, because they refuse to testify about anything that might incriminate themselves.

  • Sdf

    So do judges really fall for flawed juvenile analogies such as the one made by the MPA council, and would they really be fooled by plantiff conflating civil copyright and international drugs enforcement?? Is this really the kind of crap people can submit to the court for consideration.

    What plantiff are basically saying is, were here to try and get the court to fine the shit out of this other party on the balance of probabilities because we say they have wronged us, yet we dont want to show how we came to that conclusion. Meanwhile, we have requested details of everything you have ever done including what you have for breakfast this morning.

  • Aol

    This is hilarious, this is like the prosecutor asking for a list of defense witnesses but refusing to turn over excupatory evidence. There’s no way that the court allows this motion.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay

    “To dramatize their point the studios draw an analogy between copyright infringement and drug trafficking.”

    These geniuses don’t even know that the drug policy of the US has failed. I guess they should really pay attention to that but…

    “In many ways, this is no different than the prejudice to law enforcement if they were compelled to disclose to drug traffickers where law enforcement agents were conducting their stakeouts, or their points of interdiction, or the confidential informants they were using, or the details of the technology they used to detect smugglers’ routes into the United States.”

    And yet, the drug analogies continue despite all the enforcement…

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43248071/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/global-war-drugs-has-failed-key-panel-says/

    The smart thing? Stop our drug policy and stop copyright enforcement.

  • chillinfart

    Link to document doesn’t appear. Fix it please.

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  • Tref

    If you are accused of breaking the law, you have the right to examine the evidence that is collected against you. A very important part of this evidence is the methodology that was used to collect them and it should be disclosed if you are planning to use the resulting evidence in court

  • Guest

    We are not afraid to disclose our anti-corporate parasites strategy. We are going to kill them all, plain and simple.

  • XXX

    Sadly we will never win against the MAFIAA because the laws are against us.
    Changing the laws won’t work since the MAFIAA buy politicians.

    Give it up people, it’s a lost cause.

  • Mike

    LOL they are a crazy bunch…oh no some granny we sued might find out someones name who investigated her and wack them.

    They so crack you up how they try to use every law on the planet and still the internet is a awash with downloads. The more they try to put it out the worse it gets. They must spend millions a year fanning the flames. Time they woke up tot he fact the internet runs on academic created protocols which means they can NEVER stop it. They just started to make the first VPN millionaires. Keep that up and Usenet/VPN providers will be like google (the ultimate pirate engine) and untouchable financially. Move companies are rich but there is no never ending funding, They would struggle against google and probably run out of cash first. So taste of their own medicine is what keeps them from winning.

  • Mike

    LOL they are a crazy bunch…oh no some granny we sued might find out someones name who investigated her and wack them.

    They so crack you up how they try to use every law on the planet and still the internet is a awash with downloads. The more they try to put it out the worse it gets. They must spend millions a year fanning the flames. Time they woke up tot he fact the internet runs on academic created protocols which means they can NEVER stop it. They just started to make the first VPN millionaires. Keep that up and Usenet/VPN providers will be like google (the ultimate pirate engine) and untouchable financially. Move companies are rich but there is no never ending funding, They would struggle against google and probably run out of cash first. So taste of their own medicine is what keeps them from winning.

  • ZZZZ

    “Sadly we will never win against the MAFIAA because the laws are against us.
    Changing the laws won’t work since the MAFIAA buy politicians.
    Give it up people, it’s a lost cause. ”

    No, we are going to kill them all. That’s all.

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  • gae

    “the movie studios had requested a substantial amount of information from the file-hosting service, including IP addresses of uploaders and downloaders, and the company’s source code.”

    So how is that any different than what hotfile are requesting? You could even say it is like ” the fox asking for the combination to the lock on the hen-house door”

  • Anon

    this.

    http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15267792,00.html

  • Cereal Killer

    as soon as the money from this scam dries up the maffia will turn to dust and blow away in the wind. kick em where it hurts.

  • Pingback: Hotfile to Sue Warner Bros. For Abusing Its Anti-Piracy Tool | TorrentFreak

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  • Guest

    Anonymous and others need to focus on the studios and the antipyrat service companies and get these documents now.

  • Pingback: Hotfile Claims Warner Bros. Issued Takedowns On Content It Had No Copyright Over | Geek News and Musings

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