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Newzbin2 Release Encrypted Client To Defeat Website Blocking

The operators of Usenet indexing site Newzbin2 have introduced measures to circumvent court-ordered web-blocking measures designed to render the site inoperable in the UK. Site staff aren’t revealing how the stand-alone software client works but some basic network packet analysis shows that it defeats ISP BT’s Cleanfeed censorship system by using a handful of techniques including encryption.

Following a complaint from the Motion Picture Association, earlier this year a judge at London’s High Court ordered leading UK ISP BT to block subscriber access to Usenet indexing site Newzbin2.

Although the blocking measures aren’t expected to be put in place until after mid-October, a breakdown in one of Newzbin2′s DNS servers during the last few days led to fears that it had been implemented early.

The fault was quickly fixed, and Newzbin2′s operators said the problem encouraged them to work harder on their promised anti-blocking solutions.

Today, TeamRDogs – the group behind the site – released Newzbin Client 1.0.0.127, the first public piece of software designed to circumvent BT’s Cleanfeed online censorship system, the tool which the MPA hopes can neutralize Newzbin2 in the UK.

“We are pleased to announce the first Newzbin2 client software,” said Newzbin2′s Mr White.

“This is targeted at UK users who are likely to get blocked in October. This first version is a bit rushed and so not very polished. As time goes by we shall improve it and add features.”

Newzbin2client2

The software provides a basic web interface for the Newzbin2 site but while OSX and Linux versions are planned for the future, the client (which downloads in a 2.4mb installer) is currently only available for Windows users. So how does it work?

“We can’t say how our client application works but it uses a number of techniques to utterly defeat Cleanfeed,” said Mr White in an email.

“The application also has Agility Technology to break any updated web censorship methods or anti freedom countermeasures.”

Using network protocol analysis software, TorrentFreak ran some basic tests on the Newzbin2 client today which revealed that it does indeed defeat known features of Cleanfeed in a number of ways.

Initially the client tries to resolve the site’s domain name to an IP in the usual manner via DNS, but from there, and without going into too many details, an encrypted session is initiated between the client and the Newzbin2 site in a way that Cleanfeed won’t like, rendering blocking impractical and snooping more or less impossible.

Newzbin2client

As can be seen from the screenshot above, the client also provides some other features such as accessing the Newzbin2 website via the TOR anonymity network. Other useful links to online resources such as IMDb and common search engines are also provided.

The client is in the early stages of development and will need a few features updating if it wants to be near bulletproof. We’re sure Newzbin2′s Mr Violet, the guy who put in much of the work, has all that covered – and more.

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  • politux

    Brilliant!

    • Anonymous

      ,,epiic.
      I just got a $829.99 iPad2 for only $103.37 and my mom got a $1499.99 HTV for only $251.92, they are both coming tomorrow. I would be an idiot to ever pay full retail prîces at places like Walmart or Bestbuy. I sold a 37″ HTV to my boss for $600 that I only paid $78.24 for.
      I use EgoWïn.com

  • Louigi Verona

    Great job, guys!

  • Anon

    So the court makes clear its intent with a court ordered block, NewZbin2 launches a work-around in direct defiance of the court order (really?) the idiots here actually applaud this adolescent bad-boy bullshit and Pirates still want to believe their own digital malfeasance ISN’T the cause of industry, then heavier government response? Do you truly think misbehavior will prove out to be the defining paradigm online? Because “they can’t stop us?” Stay tuned for another round of loss of liberty. Piracy continues to be the dumbest trend ever.

    • politux

      Troll much? You’re basically saying that because people choose to use technology to share 1′s and 0′s they are forcing the government to take away their right to privacy. Makes a lot of sense, assuming you have a vested interest in maintaining the copyright monopoly.

    • Ddd

      The only thing that worries me about this, is the original purpose of Cleanfeed – to reduce online child pornography. Using it against tech savvy groups such as this, means that the program is now useless. Well done MPA!

      • Anonymous

        Don’t worry! Many police organizations have stated that driving child pornographers underground with projects like Cleanfeed is not helpful to their jobs. Cleanfeed (and the like) doesn’t help to *catch* predators, and merely suppressing them like this doesn’t stop predators from doing what they do. Basically the politicians can point to things like Cleanfeed and announce that they’re doing something to stop child pornography. It’s theater and nothing else, like making people take off their shoes at airports.

      • Anonymous

        Don’t worry! Many police organizations have stated that driving child pornographers underground with projects like Cleanfeed is not helpful to their jobs. Cleanfeed (and the like) doesn’t help to *catch* predators, and merely suppressing them like this doesn’t stop predators from doing what they do. Basically the politicians can point to things like Cleanfeed and announce that they’re doing something to stop child pornography. It’s theater and nothing else, like making people take off their shoes at airports.

      • Laticia

        fuck them share whatever the hel it is you want, don’t tell me what teh fuck i can share and not share government and who the fuck ever. free speach for all and that means toleration of things you don’t like. fuck I don’t go to a prono site and say every woman is a granny do i, no fuck i just don’t visit shit I don’t like so if u don’t like cp, no one says you have to try to find it and access it leave it alone and let them share as you share whatever the fuck it is you share…

        • A1B2o3R4

          This is the most articulate response I’ve seen for a while. Well done Laticia, you are an example to your kind.

        • http://twitter.com/snookasnoo Idon’t Know

          Um, what?

    • 45

      MPA ass kisser!!

    • Hannibal


      So the court makes clear its intent with a court ordered block, NewZbin2 launches a work-around in direct defiance of the court order (really?) the idiots
      here actually applaud this adolescent bad-boy bullshit and Pirates still want to believe their own digital malfeasance ISN’T the cause of industry, then
      heavier government response?

      Gregory, AKA SamAmI I know who you are.
      I am going to publish your home address and phone number, and since you don’t like privacy I suppose you don’t mind.

      • Anonymous

        Where? I’m intrested. (This will be just like LulzSec Exposed, but even better :p)

      • Anon

        Hannibal, a reasonable presumption of privacy in general is not the issue here. “People being private” is a convention long historically protected, but there’s always been a quid pro quo and with privilege comes responsibility. Use your privacy with care and no reasonable person would suggest you should not retain that privilege.

        The problem we deal with here is the constant erosion of this expectation for the appearance that piracy proponents believe they are entitled to have it both ways; they want that reasonable expectation to privacy to remain intact while openly relying on it to mask unlawful activity, even publicly extolling others to do the same. Where is the rationality in this?

        Civil disobedience to an unjust law is respected across the board, by me as well, but no one is fooled by a self-serving form of disobedience that just happens to fill your harddrive full of free music and movies in the process. That’s a dead end where the internet loses no matter how you approach it and pirates have never seemed to care about this.

        There is a path to being heard and respected by your legislator even for a difference of opinion, and everyone’s voice deserves to be heard on TorrentFreak, yours and mine and anyone else’s. It’s just easier to bitch about bribery and “it’s only about the corruption” and not actually invest personal time with your respective governments.

        So ask yourselves this: Who amongst the pirates has actually drawn up a reasonable manifesto that respects the rights of all the party’s involved and then gathered the hundreds of millions you claim and then taken it to their legislators? We are 15 years into this and that still hasn’t happened in any important way. The result is that pirates appear balkanized and only in this for themselves; not for some larger cultural principle at all but instead—and this is key– just for whatever they can get for free at the moment. That’s a huge political weakness.

        It’s unrealistic to use stealth to mask unlawful behavior while demanding some misperceived “right” to anonymity so that behavior can continue. I still can’t figure out how pirates arrive at this conclusion. Anyone with a sincere hope for a fast and clean internet and a true cultural freedom with a eye towards history would try far more reasonable tactics.

        • Guest

          What? Like getting elected to regional and supranational parliaments, like the pirate party? You’re an idiot. The Pirate Party has already drawn up a manifesto that respects the rights of all peoople involved. Certain people believe they deserve more privileges than they really do, of course, but the fact is, unlimited copyright monopoly is not one of the privileges people deserve, and when pirates are the legislators, it will be erased.

        • Rekrul

          There is a path to being heard and respected by your legislator even for a difference of opinion, and everyone’s voice deserves to be heard on TorrentFreak, yours and mine and anyone else’s. It’s just easier to bitch about bribery and “it’s only about the corruption” and not actually invest personal time with your respective governments.

          I don’t know what world you live in, but in the real world, the legislators don’t listen to the general public, they listen to the giant corporations who give them money.

          Look at the way the EU just retroactively extended copyright periods, despite the protests of various groups and multiple studies saying that extending copyright periods was a bad idea. You can’t blame that on the pirates. Everyone who isn’t a member of the copyright industry wanted things left as they were, or even to have the length of copyright reduced, but they just ignored the people’s wishes and extended it anyway.

          So ask yourselves this: Who amongst the pirates has actually drawn up a reasonable manifesto that respects the rights of all the party’s involved and then gathered the hundreds of millions you claim and then taken it to their legislators? We are 15 years into this and that still hasn’t happened in any important way. The result is that pirates appear balkanized and only in this for themselves; not for some larger cultural principle at all but instead—and this is key– just for whatever they can get for free at the moment. That’s a huge political weakness.

          The corporations were hard at work stripping away people’s rights long before internet piracy took off. Copyright has been extended to ridiculous lengths, virtually killing the concept of public domain, which has nothing at all to do with piracy. The DVD standard included region controls to stop people from performing the perfectly legal act of buying movies from other countries. Before that, video game consoles had regional controls for the exact same reason. That had nothing to do with piracy. The MPAA keeps trying to get a “broadcast flag” passed into law in the US so that TV networks can stop people from recording selected programs, even though such a flag will only affect the average viewer and will do nothing to stop hardcore pirates. The US government, at the behest of the pharmaceutical companies has been trying to block people from buying completely legal drugs from other countries such as Canada. They claim that it’s to protect people from counterfeiters, when it’s really about making sure that people have to pay the inflated prices that the companies charge in the US. I have a friend who probably wouldn’t be able to afford to live if he weren’t able to buy the heart medication he needs from Canada about about 1/4 the cost of the US price.

          Maybe when the governments start actually listening to their people and stop being at the beck and call of large corporations, people will start to respect the law again. You can’t keep passing anti-consumer laws and expect people to just smile and say “thank you”. Being nice and playing by the rules doesn’t do squat as far as governments are concerned. In this day and age, they only listen when there’s money involved.

        • anon

          If you actually follow torrentfreak you will see that the majority of countries decide AGAINST this type of ruling (as decided in a court of law), because technical advice to the judge / jury shows that it will not achieve anything.

          You cant filter traffic at country/ISP level because it is an impossibility. Most law/policy makers realise this and realise they need to address piracy at a different level.

          All this group did was prove the point that the whole world has been making on this issue. The point that has been made in about 5 legal cases in one year. Any ban on a traffic type or location can be immediately circumvented.

          Your further statements on this topic are ridiculous, ignorant and ill concieved.

          Please study a little before making ignorant comments.

    • Lolzssd

      lol? if either MW3 or BF3 break selling records may i please slap u?

    • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

      “”the dumbest trend ever”" ….. is allowing BRIBERY of politicians by industry lobbyists…..

      People lose freedom …..
      EVERY time the Government creates a law to “”protect” something.

      And who/what is the Government trying to protect ? ….people ? …Animals ?….. Physical goods ?………
      NO…..the industries old business models..( of selling literally WORTHLESS copies )
      The Government are paid to protect whatever the industry pays them to….

      you can’t blame filesharers……
      If the government makes up new laws because of legal bribery (lobbying) ….

      • Piratescum

        If copies are so worthless, then stop downloading the copies fool. If you can’t do without what the entertainment industry produces, then you gotta tow their line. If you don’t need their products, then go lick some indie producer’s ass and stop crowing about the industry.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay

          Dude, what’s the point of your post? The fact remains that people use Newzbin for their own express purposes that may be related to copyright infringement, but also have to do more with the community built there. It’s customers don’t want the government to pry on them, guess what? They’re making a tool not to do so.

          And sorry, I doubt anyone here gives money freely to a producer or certain film directors that can’t add

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay

          Dude, what’s the point of your post? The fact remains that people use Newzbin for their own express purposes that may be related to copyright infringement, but also have to do more with the community built there. It’s customers don’t want the government to pry on them, guess what? They’re making a tool not to do so.

          And sorry, I doubt anyone here gives money freely to a producer or certain film directors that can’t add

        • Fredrika

          > “If copies are so worthless, then stop downloading the copies fool.”

          You misunderstand ANoiXioNA. The copies they sell are worthless, because people can manufacture identical copies themselves, for free.

          > “If you can’t do without what the entertainment industry produces, then you gotta tow their line.”

          In this sentence your are confusing the creation of intellectual works, with the single business model of manufacturing, distributing and selling copies. Those are two different things. The fact that you want to enjoy the intellectual works, doesn’t mean that “you gotta tow their line”.

        • anon

          I liked this post because your single self like was lonely.

          On a side note, do I pay to watch shitty entertainment, no I just watch it for free. Do I pay to watch good entertainment, when I can afford it/it’s of high quality formats/its available in my area/it isn’t inconvenient for me to do so.

        • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

          @Piratescum
          Bubbles @ Fredrika said it best…. *( love the avatar Fredrika , my fav ppg )

          You seem angry Piratescum … the truth hurts…The copies are literally worthless.

          Don’t get mad …. it’s just reality of the universe and stuff..

      • Anonymous

        getting bold on us….

    • Jmorse43508

      Flagged you for trolling.

      You contribute nothing towards the discussioin, and IMO others should flag you for trolling as well.

      • Piratescum

        If his comment gets flagged, it will only prove that pirates are hypocrites who only support freedom of speech when it suits them. In fact it has already been proven somewhat since many legit comments in the past articles had been flagged and removed.

        He has definitely added a lot more to the discussion than you have with your useless post.

        • YoureAWanker

          In regards to this comment, comments on both sides have been flagged. As for hypocrites, well that applies to both sides as well. Anon recently has tended to go beyond off topic in regards to the articles themselves, so in actually, he hasn’t added anything at all relevant to the discussion at hand. And no, restating previously stated rhetoric isn’t discussing or adding to the topic at hand. It’s essentially copy/pasting the same diatribe over and over in completely unrelated articles/what have you.

          Technically, your comment is irrelevant to the discussion as well. However, you won’t get flagged for it. But when you drop in to say “you’re all a bunch of criminals” or something to that effect, you better believe it’s fair game.

      • Tosser

        The point Anon makes is valid – if nobody used Newzbin, they wouldn’t have bothered to go through the courts to block it.

        You could have refuted this by pointing out that Anti-Piracy “Facts” are systemically biased and numerous studies have shown that statistically fans=pirates or any other of the countless stories only a quick site search away … but no.

        Shut up = no contest.

        Also I’m sick to death of this worthless copy fallacy. Not all data is created equal, not all messages are defined by their medium – to say otherwise is to miss the point. Don’t like it? – don’t touch it. Too expensive? – wait a couple of months for the price to fall.

        Or maybe even choose to support the artists who are already putting their stuff online for you? We are swamped by free media and kickstarter projects – old media won’t die as long it has our attention.

        Right, rant over. I’m off to download Transformers 2.

    • Fredrika

      > “So the court makes clear its intent with a court ordered block, NewZbin2 launches a work-around in direct defiance of the court order (really?)..”

      No, you are confused or misinformed. What has happened is that the fully legal site Newzbin2, which isn’t hosted in the UK, has taken steps to ensure that all their visitors are able to visit the site, including those people who within their fully legal right try to visit the site from the UK.

      The fully legal site Newzbin2 hasn’t been court ordered anything from any court. There is no defiance here.

      It’s quite obvious to any sane person, that if some annoying nuisance party try to sabotage your fully legal operation, you’ll take countermeasures to render their sabotage ineffective.

      > “..and Pirates still want to believe their own digital malfeasance ISN’T the cause of industry, then heavier government response?”

      Politicians and industries are alone fully responsible for any actions they take. If they wish to step it up, their choice. Which any one with some technical understanding for the Internet, can tell you is completely meaningless.

      > “Piracy continues to be the dumbest trend ever.”

      Piracy continues to be a fully working trend for over 30 years now. Spending billions of dollars trying to stop piracy however, that seems like a really dumb trend.

    • Nope

      Don’t like it? Then fuck off. No one said you had to come here and read shit. We don’t need your bullshit troll comments to begin with.

      Also, its not the fact that newzbin2 gives people the ability to download pirated material, the internet does that as well, this is a story about how a little company is fighting to survive.

    • Boysof7171

      you are a dummy!

    • Boysof7171

      you are a dummy!

    • http://twitter.com/uJonesing Utah Jones

      So, let me sum up your argument: You believe that loss of liberty is caused by people exorcizing resistance to unjust law. Therefore, you imply that File-Sharers should stop, because it is their will to share files that are directly responsible for our collective liberties being restricted by a corporately-controlled government. By that incredible logic, the Rodney King incident was Rosa Parks’ fault. After all, she resisted so this justifies the Law Enforcers responding with extreme violence to any situation.

  • LOLZ-NEWZBIN

    wonder what the court will do to the newzbin guys….?

  • Scotty2gsm

    Censorship suck and them whining movie companies need to get a life!

  • Scotty2gsm

    Censorship suck and them whining movie companies need to get a life!

  • Hannibal

    The court order only applies to BT and Newzbin2 is therefore not legally under any obligation.

    Cleanfeed is only a private attempt to censor child pornography, and is not a legal mandate. Helping users to circumvent it is therefore not violating the law.

    The reason is that the government doesn’t want to take direct responsibility for mistaken blocking.

    And since there is no law, circumventing Cleanfeed is not itself wrong.

    If the government wants to block child pornography, it should do it openly and legally in a manner consistent with due process.

    Delegating censorship to private corporations is wrong.

  • Hannibal

    The court order only applies to BT and Newzbin2 is therefore not legally under any obligation.

    Cleanfeed is only a private attempt to censor child pornography, and is not a legal mandate. Helping users to circumvent it is therefore not violating the law.

    The reason is that the government doesn’t want to take direct responsibility for mistaken blocking.

    And since there is no law, circumventing Cleanfeed is not itself wrong.

    If the government wants to block child pornography, it should do it openly and legally in a manner consistent with due process.

    Delegating censorship to private corporations is wrong.

    • Laticia

      I can just see it now, This site contains child porn, your ip has been logged and the federal pedophiles association (FBI) are on their way. They love child porn and look at it 24/7. If you don’t believe me they have the biggest database of it in the world and are always looking for cp so they can fap then arrest whomever they choose after they get done thinking about how good the nice kitty pussy would be to have. Then when they make the arrest, they can say “i jacked off to you many times little girl while watching your dad fuk you on the video”. Usually they not say this but they think it probably.

      • Laticia

        oh yeah just google “child porn is legal in most parts of world” or similar term and you will see that its legal in most places. Fuck they used to sell it at convience stores back in the 80′s and 90′s and in Copenhagen child porn was legal to produce so they have many old movies from years ago also. On top of that, child pron is legal in japan… So yeah, the “censorship against cp” is just “we want to arrest more people and prevent you from communicating is all…. And well since they like to fuck up the www, you can get all the cp your heart desires on tor and freenet so they are helping how again now? Yep, all lies they spread just like normal politicians.

        • http://profiles.google.com/warpchy Jeffrey Wu

          Yeaaaaa…….no. Legal != moral, and its not legal in Japan.

  • Pingback: Newzbin2 Release Encrypted Client To Defeat Website Blocking | We R Pirates

  • Guest

    Delegating censorship to private corporations is wrong.

    this

  • Anonymous

    so is it possible to use similar tech to circumvent bandwidth throttling by shitty ISPs like BT during busy periods?

    • http://otester.myopenid.com/ PiRat

      If you choose such a shitty ISP in the first place you deserve it, there are over 50 ISPs in the UK with at least 75% of them available to everyone.

  • Anonymous

    tinyurl.com/2df4ccp

  • Guest

    yes use a differnt dns server

  • Pingback: P2PTalk » Newzbin2 Release Encrypted Client To Defeat Website Blocking

  • Anonymous

    The Court ordered BT to do something impossible that highlights that the Court’s judgement was flawed. The impossible aspect has been validated by OFCOM’s report on website blocking in a Digital Economy Act review.

    They have not yet addressed these high profile OFCOM findings which could be used globally in all cases to show how flawed website blocking attempts would be.

    So here we are. King BT Canute sits on his throne on the beach. “I command the tide to go back. You are forbidden to come ashore and wet my feet. This is not my idea but I am forced to do it.”

    NewBin2 stands in the sea splashing King BT Canute with salt water and calling out “What do you think will happen here? You look silly my King when you do the impossible knowing it is impossible”

  • me

    Technology taketh away, and tecnology giveth back. Most Excellent.

    • 1984 is here !

      Agreed. Everyone benefits from digital info; people, companies and governments. You take some … and you give some, like it or not. Censorship is no option.

      A little reflection on the last ~30 year of the office-operations:

      1980
      Paper office, it took years of studying and waiting weeks or even months for (access to) information (aka books/experts !). Pen, paper, calculator, filing cabinet, etc … computers were ‘science’.

      2010
      Information and tooling (= specialised software) are – almost – freely available, instant (!). You can give and take with a touch of a button, from anywhere you’d like (= mobile). Sometimes even in full HD. How’s that for a brainf#ck back in 1980 !!!

      Digital information exchange sky-rocketed innovation, possibilities, new products, revenue, efficiency and all. Hell yeah, private consumer piracy of i.e. DOS/Windows/WP/Office and some complementary games for the new generation (aka kids !) back in the 80s/90s was the best thing that ever happened for the economy and the people !

      But 20 years later outdated business-model exploiters still complain and in fear even attack/screw their own customers with DRM and lawsuits. Like that’s gonna get them new customers ?!?

      Cars and airplanes brought many ‘new’ dead people and it even meant the end of the horse-carriage business (-model). What a tragedy …but still the pro’s outweigh the con’s.

      Lesson here is adapt or die and don’t be a hypocritic crybaby about it, the Internet is here to stay Sony-San.

      • me

        I’m happy you understand what I have been trying to say for years.

  • Tosser

    Adapt or die.

    Not gonna die.

  • Xvl260

    I’m a firm believer that tech will always be a step ahead of laws. Glad to see Newzbin is doing just that.

  • Okarin

    piracy will never go away as even if the pirates were defeated the riaa/mpaa will p.r. stunt it just to get marketing attention

  • bailey87

    RESULT newzbin never to be defeated keep up the good work !

  • Jo

    check

  • Jo

    cek

  • guest

    douche

  • guest

    fucker

  • Hannibal


    Hannibal,
    a reasonable presumption of privacy in general is not the issue here. “People being private” is a convention long historically protected, but
    there’s always been a quid pro quo and with privilege comes responsibility. Use your privacy with care and no reasonable person would suggest you should
    not retain that privilege.

    This is circular reasoning.
    I take it that you mean that if the law forbids x, and people continue to do x after it is forbidden, they are themselves guilty of eroding their privacy by doing something the law forbids.

    The problem with that reasoning is that it reduces privacy to a formalistic privilege easily overridden by any real or imagined prohibition enacted by the legislature.

    In other words, if the legislature cares to ban sleeping on Sundays after 9AM, people defying that law rather than the state are guilty of eroding their privacy by disobeying what the law forbids.

    I simply don’t accept such a weak notion of privacy.

    If privacy is only a reasonable presumption, the only zone of privacy is the right to be left alone as long as you abstain from violating any external substantive prohibition enacted by the state.

    The lack of proportionality inherent in ssuch a notion of privacy is particularly problematic where – as here the lawbreaking is only infringement of a commercial monopolly.

    Rick Falkvinge has forcefully argued why the hypothetical and real losses suffered by the copyright holder should not matter in the privacy and due process equation.

    The state should simply not be permitted to abrogate or bend privacy and due process principles just because lifting the real burden of proof in a real court case takes time or imposes significant costs on the copyright holder.

    Individuals and not corporations are the electors in a democracy and if the individuals constituting the citizenry don’t respect copyright, it’s the law which must give way to what the people do rather than people sacrificing their privacy.

    Whether copyright law can be said to comply with democratic procedures is no more relevant than the Nuremberg laws being “legally” enacted by the post-Weimar Reichstag.

    After Hitler seized power, the Weimar Constitution was still in force said for the civil rights suspended by emergency decree. It could therefore equally be argued that any law duly enacted by the Reichstag should be obeyed because of the legitimacy of positive law.

    Most copyright maximalists are ardent proponents of the notion that copyright law should unconditionally be obeyed because it’s the law and that state abridgment of free speech, privacy and due process is implicitly legitimized by the need to enforce the law.

    The reason for the chasm between the copyleft and the statist copyright camp is their wholly different premises.

    Either you recognize that copyright holders have a “right” to use the state machinery to put people in prison for infringing the monopolly, or you don’t because you find the entire notion of intellectual property unnatural.
    I personally don’t accept the legitimacy of IP more than I accept the foundations of slavery or involuntary servitude, and no I don’t claim that they are equal, just that I don’t want to argue a middle ground with which I disagree.

    • Anon

      “I take it that you mean that if the law forbids x, and people continue to do x after it is forbidden, they are themselves guilty of eroding their privacy by doing something the law forbids.”

      Yes, exactly. The people can take to the streets, replace the legislators, assassinate the president or hide and steal till their lips turn blue but at the end of the day they know the situation and everyone is accountable to their own actions, you included whether you like it or not. I don’t really care. If infringing is principle to you, have at it. Just STFU and take it like a respectable adult when they catch you and turn you into an object of entertainment. Pirates believe they are above it all so they can get free stuff. No one is. You aren’t fooling anyone.??“The problem with that reasoning is that it reduces privacy to a formalistic privilege easily overridden by any real or imagined prohibition enacted by the legislature.”

      Yes, exactly. Visit a prison sometime and tell me that’s not EXACTLY true.

      There are MANY people who find limitations on their freedom “unnatural”, but that’s the price for sharing a culture and a society. Get used to it or get used to being punished. You aren’t actually disagreeing with me, Hannibal, you’d just rather struggle in your argument with reality then be genuinely effective in influencing policy going forward. Knock yourself out.

      And layoff the Nazi references for crying out loud. You sound like a Godwin idiot.

      • Hannibal


        And layoff the Nazi references for crying out loud. You sound like a Godwin idiot.

        You are clearly the only one misunderstanding Goodwin’s law. The law is descriptive and doesn’t purport to discredit anyone invoking the law in a discussion about nazi policy or legality.

        You don’t understand the logical implication in the position you’re defending and why I invoke — merely by reference – the Nuremberg law.

        (1) You claimed that pirates are destroying privacy by triggering a harsher government response.

        (2) I respond that your argument reduces privacy to a formalistic privilege easily overridden by any current or hypothetical prohibition enacted by the legislature.

        The giveaway in your reasoning is characterizing privacy as merely a reasonable presumption.

        Now it should be obvious why I invoke the reference to Nuremberg in countering your broad assertion that copyright law is legitimate because it is the law.

        Your defense of copyright law and its enforcement overriding what you call the reasonable presumption of privacy rests on the defense of positive law as a legitimate justification for curbing the desire of individuals.

        If you sincerely believe what you say that people are themselves guilty of their own loss of liberty — when they break the law — and that overriding privacy,and other liberties is in itself a paramount justification for curbing liberty, your argument gives the state absolute moral legitimacy to do anything in the pursuance of enforcing the law.

        • Anon

          “your argument gives the state absolute moral legitimacy to do anything in the pursuance of enforcing the law.”

          No. It most certainly does not and that’s a very lazy path to take in this discussion. When people take stands they feel are based upon morality but are in conflict with current law they can tell it to the judge just like everyone else. Hannibal, you display the same hubristic intellectual weakness that plagues all those of the “I’m entitled to piracy and privacy to do it and you can’t stop me” mindset, Rick Falkvinge is exhibit A.

          When pirates grasp their responsibility to working within the greater social contract and acknowledge that all the good within an organized society from which they benefit is balanced with things that benefit others, they will realize how wrongheaded and counterproductive the strategy of “hide and steal” has been this past decade. We are all in this together.

          If you want free stuff “hide and steal” works fine and the huge weakness in your position is this is how piracy still defines itself after a decade since Napster. But if you want to actually influence the course of the debate and sort a proper balance to the rights of all parties involved, you’ll set this childish mindset aside and engage your representatives and put some real skin in this game. And anyone who thinks the Pirate Party manifestos reflect forward thinking that respects the rights of all deserves to be in the same .001% the party membership itself. Piracy is unlawful and the Pirate Party, like it’s philosophies, is a joke more suitable for unaccountable, irresponsible teens of all ages.

  • me

    What would Robin Hood say about internet piracy.

    The sheriff of notingham is not dead his spirit lives on in the RIAA and the MPAA.
    They have bought the right from the government to make everyone pay for their short cummings.
    Guilty of piracy or not you will pay for their excessive rights and privalages.
    If they want the Protect IP act, I say let the RIAA and the MPAA foot the bill,
    not the people who support them through legitmate purchases.

    The people who download p2p, have no intentions of buying the media. Therefore
    There is no loss of revenue from their actions. Why not sue dvdr manufacturers
    for making dvd recorders, Or is that what will come next. Isn’t TIVO just by
    definition a major contributor to piracy of movies and television programs?

    Do internet pirates have the right to rob from the rich to give to the Poor I say. NO
    On the otherhand Do the rich have a right to rob from the poor, I also say . NO
    Now All that being said, Who should pay, the copyrightholders , or everyone else.

    I say ask yourself this who cares more about you? Pirates or content providers.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock

    Definitely an impressive accomplishment, but it seems like a futile gesture. Even if they can hide their users, no amount of encryption will make them invisible to the authorities. Why bother? P2P is always trying to convince itself that it can fight the state.

    To be honest, I feel a little sorry for these people. Going the legal route isn’t all that bad you know. You get exercise and you get to meet people. I can’t imagine how sitting in your house the whole day and pulling everything off the internet would be particularly exciting.

    I mean, as technology continues to progress and does everything for us will we end up like this?
    http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2009_Gamer/009GMR_Ramsey_Moore_001.jpg

    • http://mzl.la/n9FAit Needlez

      @jack:Well I’ll give you the point that yes encryption isn’t bulletproof jack, not at least in the way that it’s being used. Now given that lets just say for instance someone does have encrypted drives and a laptop and a network, and VPNs, and other things with mass encryption. Yes all the authorities have to go and do is your going to jail give us your passwords. Oh wait you have the 5 amendment so you don’t have to say anything. So unless they drug you and beat you with a $5 dollar wrench from the wal-mart, I don’t think they’ll be getting the password, and last I checked it’s illegal for police to commit police brutality. But on that note, if you don’t live where its safe for you to not talk like somewhere that has no law or similar amendment to our 5th amendment here in the states, then yes your screwed because they may just beat you with a $5 dollar wrench until you die or tell them. And as for them decrypting the password. Let me put it this way AES with blowfish 448 would take them years upon years to break, and by that time your children’s children’s children would be dead, and probably more. And that’s just one set of encryption with one algorithm, with no salt, and no hidden extra identifiers. Now do I think that it will come to us doing this? YES, its gonna be people with drives walking or driving to friends houses to share the original which was copied by billions already. We used to do it before the internet, the internet just made it much faster. Last I checked it was legal for me to buy a cd and give it to a friend, what he does with it has no reflection upon me.

    • http://mzl.la/n9FAit Needlez

      @jack:Well I’ll give you the point that yes encryption isn’t bulletproof jack, not at least in the way that it’s being used. Now given that lets just say for instance someone does have encrypted drives and a laptop and a network, and VPNs, and other things with mass encryption. Yes all the authorities have to go and do is your going to jail give us your passwords. Oh wait you have the 5 amendment so you don’t have to say anything. So unless they drug you and beat you with a $5 dollar wrench from the wal-mart, I don’t think they’ll be getting the password, and last I checked it’s illegal for police to commit police brutality. But on that note, if you don’t live where its safe for you to not talk like somewhere that has no law or similar amendment to our 5th amendment here in the states, then yes your screwed because they may just beat you with a $5 dollar wrench until you die or tell them. And as for them decrypting the password. Let me put it this way AES with blowfish 448 would take them years upon years to break, and by that time your children’s children’s children would be dead, and probably more. And that’s just one set of encryption with one algorithm, with no salt, and no hidden extra identifiers. Now do I think that it will come to us doing this? YES, its gonna be people with drives walking or driving to friends houses to share the original which was copied by billions already. We used to do it before the internet, the internet just made it much faster. Last I checked it was legal for me to buy a cd and give it to a friend, what he does with it has no reflection upon me.

  • me

    So you want to see a movie. Well first you have to get to the theatre, for me that is an hour long drive. Now you get to have the pleasure of standing in line with a group of strangers, there goes another forty-five minutes. Finally time to buy your ticket, thats $8.50, how about some snacks
    popcorn $5.50, A drink to wash it down $4.50, maybe some candy another $3.50, Total $22.00,
    Oh that’s right you brought a date for a Grand Total $44.00.

    OK lets find our seats. Where to sit there are isle seats these are great, you just have to contend with people walking back and forth infront of you through the entire movie. There are seats in the center, These are nice once you get to them, all you have to do is crawl over the people in the isle seats. I have my own way of finding the perfect spot to sit. I like to try to find a seat with no soda spilled on it, or one not smeared with chocolate. Be careful with this approach, many times the seat with nothing on it, May have a very interesting smell usually a cross between flatulence, sweat, with a subtle hint of vomit.

    Now we have our seats. Time to enjoy the movie, surely it will start any minute. Oh wait the theatre isn’t full enough yet. Let’s see who all is here to enjoy this fine film. We have the teen lovers dryhumping in the backrow waiting for the lights to go out so they can fully consummate their love. There is the drunk couple who have been fighting non-stop for three months, they are not talking at the moment, they to eagerly await the darkness to really tell each other how they feel
    about one another. Ah the elderly couple grandma is talking louder and louder telling grandpa to make sure and turn on his hearing aid. He is oblivious to her, as he has already fallen asleep and is snoring away. Who else is here the guy who has chronic emphysema, or maybe tuberculosis what a treat. Who is missing. Oh here she comes the mother of seven who has brought all the kids and their toys, she even brought one year old Jamie who’s colic is in full swing now. Let’s not forget the cell phone user’s and the texters. Now the theatre is full and the movie can start. Everyone is here now HOORAY.

    The lights are out and the trailers start to roll, it won’t be long now. Finally the opening credits. Oops drank all the soda waiting for the start, back to the snackbar. Oh look grandma is in front of you asking the clerk to read all of the ingredients of all the candy to her. The poor dear, she has allergies you know. Now it’s your turn one large soda please, oh whats that the tanks need refilled on the soda machine. There’s another thirty minutes gone. Finally back to your seat, you just have to climb over the sleeping snoring granpa, or you could go aound to the otherside and climb over the drunks who are now in a full blown fist fight. Back in your seat now you find the guy who came in late hitting on your date. So you have to find new seats for you and your date. the movie is half over by this point typically. Luckily there are two seats open first row corner right by the exit.
    Undaunted you start watching the movie looking sideways at the screen. What now your date has to use the restroom, you must accompany her as the late guy has followed you to your new seats and fully intends to talk to her on the way to the rest room. Ok back to your seats just in time to see the ending credits. What a Great night out, only cost $44.00 to miss every good scene in the movie.

    Next time rent a movie $7.50 for five days, box of microwave popcorn $5.00 (also about ten times the amount you get at the theatre), two litres of soda $2.00 (about twice as much as you get at the theatre) candy lets say $5.00.(and you know you will get the kind you want). Total $19.50. That includes a date, and some friends. All in the comfort of your own home. Being able to pause the movie so you can get more soda, and so your date can use the restroom PRICELESS. With the home theatre technology the way it is. You can get the same or in some cases, a better movie experience at home, If you watch a streamed movie you don’t have to leave the house to find the film of your choice. It just gets better and better.

  • Ryan14

    Where is the download link for Newzbin Client 1.0.0.127 ?

  • Foff

    Hey Jack why don’t you change your last name to A$$ then your name would fit. This goes to show how full of it the courts are. Jack piracy is here to stay. Just like all the drug laws in the world have not put a dent in the drug use of those who want to use. All the legal maneuvers won’t stop piracy. Shut down one form of file sharing another appears. Shut down p2p software, torrents appear, attack torrents, cyber lockers appear.

    Now you try to block a site news site and software appears that makes the block useless. Perhaps the next evolution will be streaming lockers. Instead of download just stream. Who knows? But whatever the case one of the original purposes of the internet is the free and unhindered flow of information. This spirit is strong and lives in the hearts of all the pirates. I hope a version of this software will make it possible to defeat all isp blocking so that I won’t have to use proxies to surf sites my internet client won’t connect to. I would love a little program that circumvents all blocks and allows me to surf freely.

  • Hannibal


    Yes, exactly. The people can take to the streets, replace the legislators, assassinate the president or hide and steal till their lips turn blue but at
    the end of the day they know the situation and everyone is accountable to their own actions, you included whether you like it or not. I don’t really care.
    If infringing is principle to you, have at it. Just STFU and take it like a respectable adult when they catch you and turn you into an object of entertainment.

    </b

    I assume that you don’t mind that the regime is slaughtering the people in Syria.
    People breaking the law must take the consequences, mustn’t they?

    and you aren’t really neutral are you? You’re actually morally endorsing the state even when it kills or deprives people of liberty.


    Yes, exactly. Visit a prison sometime and tell me that’s not EXACTLY true.

    There are MANY people who find limitations on their freedom “unnatural”, but that’s the price for sharing a culture and a society. Get used to it or get
    used to being punished. You aren’t actually disagreeing with me, Hannibal, you’d just rather struggle in your argument with reality then be genuinely effective
    in influencing policy going forward.

    And


    And layoff the Nazi references for crying out loud. You sound like a Godwin idiot.

    Spoken by the one admitting that privacy and presumably all other human rights are only the freedom to do what the state has not yet forbidden and that he doesn’t care about what price people must pay for influencing the society.

    Really unfair to call him a fascist or nazi.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeremy-Holmes/100001388673969 Jeremy Holmes

    I can honestly say that torrents have given me loads of fun and if it weren’t for them I just wouldn’t be playing the games or watching the movies, I don’t believe that I have actually taken away from the bottom line of the producers of said torrents I just have gotten enjoyment from a movie or game that I would normally not have enough money to get. Seed 4 Life

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeremy-Holmes/100001388673969 Jeremy Holmes

    I can honestly say that torrents have given me loads of fun and if it weren’t for them I just wouldn’t be playing the games or watching the movies, I don’t believe that I have actually taken away from the bottom line of the producers of said torrents I just have gotten enjoyment from a movie or game that I would normally not have enough money to get. Seed 4 Life

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  • Hannibal


    “your argument gives the state absolute moral legitimacy to do anything in the pursuance of enforcing the law.”"


    No. It most certainly does not and that’s a very lazy path to take in this discussion. When people take stands they feel are based upon morality but are
    in conflict with current law they can tell it to the judge just like everyone else. Hannibal, you display the same hubristic intellectual weakness that
    plagues all those of the “I’m entitled to piracy and privacy to do it and you can’t stop me” mindset, Rick Falkvinge is exhibit A.

    And if current law forbids selling goods to Jews and Blacks, I should obey the law otherwise I am a criminal. If my morality conflicts with a law banning me from selling to a group, I am “lazy” for hiding my activity and not submitting to the authority of the state.

    I repeat, you have boxed yourself into a corner by claiming that privacy is only the right to do what is not illegal. If illegal means anything against the law, the privacy presumption is equally overridden by a law forbidding blasphemy or race mixing.

    Do people have a moral duty to obey any order from the state as long as it is legal — in accordance with written law? Yes or no?

    If yes, Germans violating the Nuremberg law
    should just have accepted their punishment or obeyed the law.

    You can’t have it both way, either one has a duty to obey the law, or one has a moral right or even obligation to resist an unjust law.

    And what is unjust is purely subjective. Copyright law is no more founded in natural justice than the Nuremberg law.

    If the law can say that anyone copying the composition by another shall be fined or imprisoned for infringing another’s property, the law can equally stipulate that one shal be fined or imprisoned for helping a slave to escape his master.

    And that brings us back to your circular bullshit, that pirates are violating the rights of others, because the copyright law mandates that information even after leaving the physical possession of the original creator is somehow “property”.

    Now, there might be pragmatic reasons for respecting or retaining a limited copyright, but claiming the high ground because the law for now enshrines the notion of intellectual property, and referring back to the law itself as justification for cracking down on pirates is utterly dishonest.
    Type your comment here.

    • Anon

      You accuse me of circular logic while you reference Jews and Blacks and Nazi’s?

      We’re talking PIRACY, the cheesy act that copies digital content without paying for it.

      “And what is unjust is purely subjective. “

      Agreed. You have no greater moral or legal standing in your demand to “piracy in privacy” than a guy who demands his right to speed on the highway because he paid for his car, pays for the gas, pays for the state mandated insurance and pays the taxes that builds the roads. He’s still in the wrong. You’re still in the wrong. Get over yourself, Hannibal. You continue to claim some higher moral ground for one of the sleaziest covert activities in recent human behavior. Ripping off artists, for God’s sake.

      You said “referring back to the law itself as justification for cracking down on pirates is utterly dishonest.”

      As you wish, in that case Hannibal, referring back to the law as justification for cracking down on ANY unlawful activity is just as equally dishonest under a just legal system, right?…… for who are you to decide what is moral for everyone else? Delusions of grandeur that justifies entitlement to free entertainment? And now it’s Jews and blacks and Nazi’s? Really? You, sir, are no longer worth the time here.

      • chris

        “You continue to claim some higher moral ground for one of the sleaziest covert activities in recent human behavior.” -

        Really? Downloading a movie? You want covert sleaze, I think your perspective is a little off-kilter. Ghaddaffi/Abbas/Mubarak – that’s sleaze. CIA extraordinary rendition, Mexican drug cartels, systematic child abuse, rape, murder, limbless Cambodians and countless wars in the name of a deity. That’s sleaze. Get off your high horse and stop pretending that your pathetic meanderings have any value in our society. Help the struggling artist? Don’t make me laugh.

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  • http://profiles.google.com/warpchy Jeffrey Wu

    And now this article has been cited by the BBC.

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  • Anon

    Poor millionaires who like to horde copyright like baby sweeties. Poor babies may loose a few pennies because of hackers and can’t afford the tenth ferrari boo-hoo poor babies. :(—-

    Co**su**ers go spin. I love to see you all get hacked out of your copyright royalties! Life is so short you morons all your money can’t stop you dying so go die and let’s get your copyright timeout ticking!

    All copyright holders hurry up and DIE!

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  • Anonymous

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  • CJ

    Only one thing to say… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

  • CJ

    That being said, I honestly hope the idot’s that try to stop filesharing continue to ramp up efforts to do so. It causes a great necessity to circumvent whatever it is they try to pull, and necessity is the mother of all innovation and invention. The deeper they try to control what we can and can’t do, the harder we are forced to invent new ways to stop them. At some point it will all plateau, at some point it will have driven this community to find that one unstoppable way to forever thwart them, and not only will they then be helpless to stop it, but they will have to deal with the simple fact that they were the ones who pushed and pushed until they pushed too far, and will have to accept that all of it was their doing. If they’d have just kept their mouths shut about lil ol napster and let it be. Chances are the general public wouldn’t even know they could do this. Oh well. Once again… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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