OiNK Pre-Releasers Accused of Conspiracy To Defraud Music Industry

Following revelations on Friday that police had begun to arrest ex-OiNK users, we are now in a position to add further details. The police are arresting people allegedly involved in the pre-release uploading of music albums, accusing them of ‘Conspiracy to Defraud the Music Industry’.

oink
After receiving information that British police had started to arrest ex-users of OiNK in the on-going ‘Operation Ark Royal’, we published an article on Friday. We had been sitting on this story while we negotiated with our sources to be able to include as much information as possible, without compromising their situation. We are now in a position to offer more information.

It seems the music industry’s desire to paint OiNK as a criminal network focused on the ruination of the music business, has so far led them to direct the police into arresting users who allegedly pre-released albums, i.e shared albums before their stated retail release date. As mentioned in our previous article, there are no laws in the UK which give extra gravity to pre-release cases, but the music industry seems keen to portray this type of copyright infringement as being much more serious. It has been their theme since the day of the original raid and shutdown of OiNK.

Many observers have been questioning for some time now why the police are involved in this case when it’s believed users of the site committed only civilly actionable offenses at best. It’s clear that simple copyright infringement isn’t what the music industry has in mind.

Those accused were visited by detectives involved with ‘Operation Ark Royal’, sometimes accompanied by local police. After identification, they were arrested under suspicion of “Conspiracy to Defraud the Music Industry”, told that they were not alone and that police would be arresting and interviewing more people in connection with the case. Suspects were then taken to their local police station for questioning and required to provide DNA samples and fingerprinting.

During their interview the suspects were asked all about OiNK, their understanding of the purpose of the site and what they did as a user there. The police were also keen to discover if these alleged pre-releasers personally knew OiNK admin, Alan Ellis, which of course – like the majority of OiNK members – they didn’t.

The police have been asking the suspects for their account details on OiNK. The police are in possession of user account names and email addresses registered on the site, but were keen for the suspects to provide their passwords, adding weight to the belief that user’s passwords were successfully encrypted with a salted MD5 hash.

Suspects were then released on bail while the police went to make further enquiries. It is believed that those arrested will have to appear at a designated police station on the same day that Alan Ellis is to answer his bail, July 1st 2008. So far, Cleveland Police haven’t responded to our request for information.

A really nice gesture has been made by the team of solicitors working on behalf of OiNK administrator Alan Ellis. They have offered free legal support to certain arrested individuals.

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YouWish

What a joke, seriously, are people in power really so ignorant ?
Rob Smith

Police should be out solving real crimes, not arresting some geeks for sharing music online. It might be time to overthrow the government…
Ron Michaels

How could the police tell who uploaded what files?
P!nk Pr!nce

:-( I miss oink!
Stormy

Ron Michaels: They can’t. Someone was obviously outside their houses using their wifi.
Concerned

The music industry in the same way that the cellular telephone has a great deal of influence with the British Government. There have been different news programs that have indicated that the cellular industry has given a great deal of money to their friends in the Government, has the music industry done the same? No doubt in my mind!
Anonymous

Still haven’t cited any sources?
Anonymous

Do we know whether any of their computer equipment was taken away? or were they just taken in for questioning?
Anonymous

What sources are they supposed to cite? They made it clear they’re getting the info from the people directly involved, who obviously aren’t going to want their names in here… So they either run the story without “citing sources” or they sit on it – I’d rather it came out. Feel free not to believe anything you read if that’s what you want…
Anonymous

Exactly, I would like to thank TF for keeping names, details and locations from the public domain. These people will be going through enough as it is.

Won’t using the same legal team as Alan Ellis imply they know him though?

How does that stand up legally?
http://torrentfreak.com Ernesto

@10 Thanks, and they didn’t know him, but they got in contact through us after they were arrested.
Anonymous

Just put the hashes on a super computer with a good rainbow table, everything will come out in a week..
bRAp

crack the passwords ? why would they want them, oh to access their email and such, time to change all my passwords me thinks!
Anonymous

Looks like alot of people that love to jump on the “I hate TF and now i’m gonna sit here and cry about it” bandwagon yet again have there foot in there mouth and owe an apology.

I for one appreciate the TF staff’s work. Please keep up the nice efforts, and ty for not putting peoples names in the story for idiots to read. I’m sure they’re having a rough enough go at it, as it is.
Anon30

I thought the police knew about the law?
What the fu*k is going on!!!!
Anonymous

#12 said
“just put the hashes on a super computer with a good rainbow table, everything will come out in a week..”

This dosn’t work well for salted hashes. Even a super computer would need a long ass time to break a salted hash.
vagabond

they won’t have to crack the passwords; i’m sure some admin will roll over and give them up in return for a lighter sentence/fine,
Anonymous

So are they after original seeders, or anyone who was in a pre-release swarm?
Anonymous

What good would having passwords do them?
marke68

This is typical of the UK these days,we have an epidemic of knife crime and gun crime and what does this cancer of a goverment do, nothing absolutly nothing,they seem to think its wiser to ignore it and hope it will go away while sliding up the arse of the BPI.This country’s fucked when the law seems more interested in going after uploaders and not crack dealing fuck heads who think its normal to stab someone in the neck for no reason.

Time to charge up the cattle prod….
Anonymous

@18

Depends, I suppose depending how the investigation goes they may cast the net wider. No one will know yet I seriously doubt.
Anonymous

@18 Christ dude learn to read. Its obviously the people that UPPED the pre-release albums they’re after.
Ezzy Elliott

The UK is obviously modelling itself on Saudia Arabia or the old Soviet Union.

How did this happen?

Murderers are walking the street while the police are arresting music lovers for erm..loving music.

Do I love music? Obviously not as much as these Oink users.

I am glad that there are anonymous BT alternatives e.g. Dargens p2p http://www.Dargens.com .

However, this incident shows that there is something rotten at the heart of British justice.
mike

It seems weird that no one has mentioned “required to provide DNA samples and fingerprinting”. I forgot that these “criminals” were violent offenders and needed to be cataloged. This world is creeping closer and closer to Orwell’s vision in “1984″. Talk is cheap if you want to overthrow government vote.
Anonymous

@23 Its now standard practice in our Police State in the UK, anyone arrested innocent or guilty has fingerprints and DNA taken.
Anonymous

> “Still haven’t cited any sources?”

What do you expect this to be, a blog or Wikipedia?
lolcat

The intention is not to defraud the “music industry”. It’s only to help them die.
And it’s not a conspiracy as it’s not a secret: many “pirates” like me publicly announce their intentions. The world (of music) would be a better place without the major music labels.
john

Do you think they will make arrests in the US?
a/s/l

@ 28

yes, lock your doors and seal them with duct tape, burn your HD and hide under your table.
crak3

well it’s a good thing they waited so long. the oink user cant possibly be expected to remember their passwords now.
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jack

Best way to fight against MAFIAA is cut mafia money supply. Don’t buy anything, just download all from internet free. What longer time you do that, that more money you will save and that more money MAFIAA will loose. So don’t buy movies, tv-shows and don’t even rent those or go watch in cinema. Don’t buy games and programs. Simply download all free from internet. Spread the word and get more peoples to MAFIAA boycott.

Most don’t understand when you buy or rent movie / tv-show or go cinema to watch movie. Buy game or software. Always when you buy/rent “culture” you will support MAFIAA and give money to MAFIAA.

MAFIAA uses hundreds millions dollars to copyright organizations and millions to lobby goverment. MAFIAA weak point is money. What less money they get and that weaker they are. MAFIAA is doomed to fail whatever it will try to stop pirates. Pirates will win and MAFIAA can only delay that win nothing else.

Many of you have forget that BitTorrent Tracker Owners Can Hide from the MPAA/RIAA and continue forever http://torrentfreak.com/how-a-bittorrent-tracker-owner-hides-from-the-anti-pirates-080206/
http://www.ezee.se/ wwwDOTezeeDOTse

Admins of torrent sites MUST be responsible and delete all logs asap.. would be nice if they also deleted specific details of which user upped which files and just kept the ratio (if needed)

The UK govt has been bending over and applying lube for some time now.. just a little while ago with the 3 strikes rule, other than France which other country this side of the globe seriously considered it? plus they (ISPs) have till April of ’08 to make the music companies happy… which other country has THAT deadline?

Totally corrupted:
http://ezee.se/articles-blog/2008/05/31/oink-uk-police-corrupted/

Cheers!
Markos

Our prayers with the poor souls who got caught up in this… be strong.
Ian

Don’t wanna be a party pooper, but IMHO pre-releasing IS kinda unfair to the artist. I mean, just look at albums like Fiona Apple’s “Extraordinary Machine”. The pre-release and the retail versions were totally different beasts…
soullessroses

what pisses me off is i finally got an invite and then 2 days later they get raided WTF!!!
Alan C

Just a little note, in the UK you must automatically submit to a DNA sample when you are charged. This sample is not destroyed even if you are found clear.

I’m also very happy that there are lawyers in the UK willing to stand up against these mobsters.
Like

Reading that article….that suggests anyone busted needs a good lawyer whom would tell them presumably that giving away a password would incriminate them further.
Yoshino in the Moonlight

This shows clearly the need to change the laws. Getting around laws is not enough; what is fully needed is a campaign for advocacy to change the laws. Do not think that money has ultimate power, for it it had, slavery would still be in existence. In the end, morality wins, not money. Thus, we have the ultimate upper ground, and we will ultimately win in a campaign to change the laws.
DJ

fuck this site, deleting my comments.

talk about someone being nazis
Anonymous

Private sites really shouldn’t have all of these logs. Only log the IP if they are doing something wrong (for the purposes of banning them) and let anyone upload torrents anonymously.
Rekrul

This kind of shoots holes in the theory that only using private sites will keep you safe, doesn’t it…
seven

music industry is fraud. OiNK was just a great way around it.
UK pole ice

Conspiracy to defraud could never be proven. Even if the alleged actions could be construed to have denied industry payment, the intention was merely to share, nothing more. Even the balance of evidence could not lean to such an evil and vile accusation.

We see that these charges are being intensified according to the venom and hatred of the industry, not according to justice and reality. It’s a joke really, and makes a mockery of the legal system.

Any judge worth his weight in cockie poo would see this immediately.

In any case I still don’t see how they can prove the uploading of said albums has occurred by the accused at all if denied. They may have been in it for the social aspects alone, or just pretended to have music available. Making available is not an offense anymore, and never was. Distribution must be proven, and even then it is merely minor trivial copyright infringement at worst.
Anonymous

Since when is defrauding an illegal industry a crime? They shaft us “legally”. They must get it back
hoodlum

UK’s version of the RICO Act..
Anonymous

“Don’t wanna be a party pooper, but IMHO pre-releasing IS kinda unfair to the artist. I mean, just look at albums like Fiona Apple’s “Extraordinary Machine”. The pre-release and the retail versions were totally different beastsâ€¦”

Unfair because the pre-release is not finished? Might be interesting, but if u don’t like it, ur always free to delete it!?
Anonymous

Jack, I can’t see that even cutting their money supply would affect their multi billion dollar wealth. They can make a comfortable future just by suing customers ad infinitum. They can diversify, invest, defraud (what they do best); bank interest alone would rake in more than what music sales do, and for this they don’t need to do anything.

Their assets and wealth need to be taken away or they need to be jailed for a long time, preferrably both. They WILL lose everything, even their lives, because money is their priority and their god, and that can’t save them.
Anonymous

I forgot to mention royalties and tax avoidance
Anonymous

It’s apparent they also want the insiders
Smitty

Look, does ANYONE have spare OiNK invite for me? I have the Weezer album??? Comon! Pleeeaaassee??? Stop lying and saying OiNK is dead…
Smoop

@48. Yep. They want to damage the scene. It’s always been about the pre-releasers from day one and this arrest further addresses that.
Anonymous

anyone that is close to this area when it goes to court or other cases should arange and gather with friends peers pirates etc to be heard out the front of the courts, protest for human rights! because it could be you/me next and the ones that have been caught and charge are the type of people we need to thank for making torrent sites great overall, but what SINKS is someone could steel my familys food for a week and id theyd starve over it and they would probably get a slap on the wrist for it only, governments and coperations are showing us we are worthless peices of shit put here to supply them only as slaves, maybe example torrent sites could start a union type thing, id be happy to pay a small amount because thats all theyd need to charge to arrange rallys gatherings protests etc
Anonymous

FUCKING GOOD!
I CANT BELIEVE THEY DIDNT ARREST THESE SICK SONS OF A BITCHES SOONER! HOW DARE THEY INDIRECTLY “STEAL” MONEY FROM MULTIMILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES AND ARTISTS!
give em life.
Anonymous

some british lawer here that can point us to a law that is named:

“Conspiracy to Defraud the Music Industry”
Yoshino in the Moonlight

What needs to happen is for us to unify under some organization because unity is key, so that we can pool our resources together so that we can have a political impact, advocate our cause, and have legal defense.

Only then can we ever hope to change the laws.

We need to change the laws, because getting around the laws is not enough, because we need not only the ability to file-share, but also respect for file-sharing. If we believe that our activity to be of any goodness, then it is completely unacceptable for people to disrespect it and call it a criminal activity. If we are to have any respect at all, then we must have it respected firstly by the law.

The only real reason why the RIAA etc. are having dominance is because they are organized and we are not.

It is not because of money. If money was always absolute power, then slavery would still be around, and the tobacco industry would still be reigning supreme.

The moral fervor which actuates us to organized action is what wins in the end. We have the moral upper hand as the true appreciators of culture over those greedy people who are unjustly trying to destroy true culture and replace it with something of no value and only for money.

Therefore, we need to get organized now, and change the laws. Respectability is key: we cannot possibly have any respect when the law criminalizes it. We can do so, and we must.
Khristopher

Is it legal for police to ask for user passwords for websites? Isn’t that invading privacy?

And wouldn’t it also be illegal for any admins to give up passwords to anyone besides the user who the password belongs to?
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Anonymous

As long as there are big tax draws, the govt will be on their side as far as possible. They may evade taxes, but there’d still be a lot paid. They have to avoid suspicion.

When I mentioned “insiders” I was referring to the music industry insiders who are supplying the pre-releases. But Smoop is right too.

Boycotting may not be the whole answer but it’s a good start. Maybe that’s conspiracy to defraud also? People choosing not to buy is not fraud. Neither is file sharing because it’s not done for profit.
Cory Doctorow fan

Maybe the BPI has seen the question from Cory quoted lately so often that they already believe that the uploaders are after them?!

Cory asked a little over a year ago:

“At what point do we just abandon any pretense of making peace with these gangsters? When will it be time to declare war on them, to engage in file-sharing not because we love music, but because we hate the record companies?” [1]

could it really be the IFPI/BPI/RIAA guys are really suffering from paranoia already?! :-P

[1] http://www.boingboing.net/2007/02/13/riaa-to-isps-send-ou.html
fuzzypig

@24, sorry mate but the UK started on 1984…well in 1984! We have highest number of speed cameras per motorist, the highest number of CCTV camera’s per capita and at the heart a government who seems to all intents and purposes, to have simply instructed the justice system, under the pay of large corporations, to go after soft targets like “online” crime. Easy to arrest some geeks who ain’t going anywhere, than tackling a group of knife-wielding 17 year olds, especially if they are from ethic minorities. The police simply uphold the law, they don’t make it, if the justice system tells them to do IT, they do IT, the government has set police arrest targets, so to meet those targets, everything is fast becoming a crime. “Thought-crime” is just around the corner, the laws are being drafted as we speak and soon this apathetic bloody country will walk into Orwellian nightmare from which it will be too late to wake up from, the end it nigh my friends, so party while you can!
Putin 08

Yoshino in the Moonlight: What needs to happen is for us to unify under some organization because unity is key, so that we can pool our resources together so that we can have a political impact, advocate our cause, and have legal defense.

You can’t will an EFF-style organization dedicated to the legal defence/legalization of filesharing into existence just by suggesting it in the anonymous comments section of a weblog.

An idea’s truly worthless without action to back it up, which means YOU have to do legwork if you ever want to see this vision realized. And suggesting to strangers on the Internet that it should be realized doesn’t count as legwork, FYI. That’s anything but.

The EFF didn’t come into being because Mitch Kapor, John Barlow, and John Gilmore decided to start hitting up bulletin boards with the suggestion that “hey guys, what needs to happen is we should come together and unify under some kind of organization”.
Arrogance…

British police had started to arrest ex-users of OiNK in the on-going ‘Operation Ark Royal’.
The Ark Royal was the British aircraft carrier in WWII whose antiquated planes disabled the German battleship Bismarck. This enabled the British to sink the Bismarck. They have exceeded their usual arrogance by comparing their own actions to that brave ship’s.
extreme protection to.. the rich :/

Not long ago (150 years), the poor were punished extremely harshly if they were stealing bread.

Thanks to all those conservative idiots, we’re slowly but surely getting back to those times.

21st century = 19th century, if we don’t start to set everything on fire, worldwide
TorrentFreak

I owe Torrent Freak an Appoligy, I was one of those that jumped on the Bash Torrent Freak band wagon and I feel sad now,

erinsto is a genuinely good guy and I thank him that torrentfreak is here.
lulz

Anyone would thing we lost world war 2 given that we dont have a police force but rather the gestapo.

On another point. The actual crime is ‘Conspiracy to Defraud’ the music industry is simple the party alleged to be being defrauded. Conspiracy to Defraud is a common law offecnce punishable by up to but not greater than 10 years imprisonment and/or a fine.

Unfortunately for the law in this case, a conspiracy requires parties be in agreement with each other with the intent to defraud, something which will be extremely difficult to prove as it is unlikely there hase been any direct communication between the parties involved in respect to the defrauding. It would have to be proven that all parties knowingly conspired with each other to deprive the ‘music industry’ of liberty or property. I’d like to see them try and prove that case. Where is no agreement between parties, no conspiracy has been commited. Its as simple as that.
lulz

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1977/cukpga_19770045_en_2#pt1-l1g1
Random_Guy

If I can remember correctly in the Copyright, Design and Patents Act if there is no commercial gain (which is this case there isn’t) you cant charge anyway or do anything about it. Also what happens if you cant remember your password? There is a thing called a random generated password.
Random_Guy_Again

Forgot to add this:

@56:
Its legal, read up on the Computer Misuse Act, it says the Goverment (even organisation that you personally work for) can force you to give up passwords, email accounts and all that kind of stuff “in the interest of the health and safety of the public” or whatever the hell shite they say all the time.

As to your second point, I’m not sure. I would say its illegal and also in this case not possible.
Anonymous

@60

Unfortunately, I am not in a position in my life to do such a thing. For me, this will have to be delayed several years. I am waiting for someone else to do this, because I cannot.
lulz

But…. Fraud, in this case, has nothing to do with the health and safety of the public. They cannot force you to divulge your password unless they can prove that by not doing so you risk public safety, again, I’d like to see them prove that too. This is simply a fishing expidition by the police, missusing public statutes to get people to incriminate themselves. Dont fall for it.

P.S. I’m not a lawyer. Always seek compitent legal advise.:)
WakuWaku

So called vision of the Cleveland Police … http://www.cleveland.police.uk/force_info/putting_people_first/
John Thomas

OMG I am getting so sick of “the Music INdustry”. Who cares. Everyone, go download Morpheus or LIme wire and just download all the music you want for free. Enough is enough!

JJ
http://www.Ultimate-Anonymity.com
lolz

Lol I would like to see them try questioning me.. worst thing you can do is talk to the police.

Fact: Police lie to get you to spill the beans and then use it against you.

Fact: You do not have to talk without an attorney present (Or at least in USA)

If I were questioned, I would suddenly forget how to use a computer.
Kevin

à¹Í¡Ì¯à¹ï´¿
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Anonymous

@20 – That was the funniest thing I’ve read in a while :D I agree completely…
Anonymous

Although most frauds are crimes, it is irrelevant for these purposes whether the agreement would amount to a crime if carried out. This gives the prosecution a choice whether to charge statutory or common law conspiracy where the agreement would amount to the commission of an offence if carried out. If the victim has suffered any financial or other prejudice, there is no need to establish that the defendant deceived him or her. But, following Scott v Metropolitan Police Commissioner (1974) 3 All ER 1032, it is necessary to prove that the victim was dishonestly deceived by one or more of the parties to the agreement into running an economic risk that he or she would not otherwise have run, if the victim has not suffered any loss. For the mens rea, it is necessary to prove that “the purpose of the conspirators (was) to cause the victim economic loss” (per Lord Diplock in Scott). For the test of dishonesty, see R v Ghosh (1982) 2 All ER 689.
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lulz

So what it comes down to is;

1. Was there an agreement to defraud

2. Were all parties aware of this agreement

3. Did the agreement result in financial loss on behalf of the music industry

What would constitute an ‘agreement’? Simply having an account on a torrent site? By that reconing all members of all torrent sites are conspiritors to defraud.

How will the music industry prove loss. It would be impossible to prove that each and every download resulted in a lost sale. If that cannot be proven, there is no financial loss, any stated loss is assumed, not actual. Thats like a bus company saying they lost x ammount of revenue becuase x ammount of people chose to use their car. Its a non argument.
seeder

@24 you are absolutely right, this is getting closer to a world run by lunatics from 1984

2+2=4!!!!!!!!
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Anonymous

“they won’t have to crack the passwords; i’m sure some admin will roll over and give them up in return for a lighter sentence/fine,”

No. The passwords were not stored anywhere on the server, so they can’t possibly give up the passwords. If they were stored on the server, then the cops would already have the passwords, and then they wouldn’t need to get them from the admin.

“just put the hashes on a super computer with a good rainbow table, everything will come out in a week..”
No. Salted MD5 hashes are too strong for that.
Shaze

Pfft, what.cd’s still alive and well; what’s more is that they’ve amassed the BIGGEST and BEST free collection of music, on the planet.

All you gotta do is seed
Anonymous

I suggest e-mailing the local police force through their site and letting them know how you feel about there actions. Maybe a petition on the downing street website would help our cause. I wouldn’t know where to start in structuring one. Best leave that to someone who can word themselves clearly. Another way would be to get someone to propose an article for a big news paper. Get the media behind it. We will show these money idols who their gods really are.
Anonymous

Out of curiosity how many Brits here complaining actually bothered to vote in the last election?

Go to your local MP complain – set up a group and get your friends to join to harass MPs. Start letting old lady groups know that X thousands of pounds are going to lock up file sharers instead of protecting them from drug crazed granny bashers…. you get the idea.

Don’t think it works? It does.

The Australian Federal Parliament has 2 special interest groups reps – antipokies and right wing christian.

Both sides need their votes so will often cut deals.

Stop complaining here and do something about it!
Anonymous

Where do we donate?
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hungryAndDisappointed

I hope there will by the day where I read other news while starving…
You Europeans really have the biggest problems. I don’t like the culture I’m living in but as far as I can talk of “reason” and “war” in the same sentence I would say the we at least have more existential reasons to make us fight each other…
hungryAndDisappointed

Teaching us Democrazy? Biggest BULLSHIT ever if this is what your executive forces are good for.
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KnOMrz

To me this is kind of ironic. I could never get into OiNK after trying for about 8 months to get an invite, it seem to be such an allusive place, considering I was able to easily get invites to other rather private torrent sites. And yet its this one that gets taken down, and the users are possibly in future legal trouble. I honestly do not know what they want to gain from these prosecutions, its been proven by history that charging generally innocent people with stupid shit (yes file sharing is basically illegal, but come on…) doesn’t scare anyone from doing it. Now if they went back to what happened in the good ol’ days, and still in some places, and did public hangings/hand chopping off :X and such, maybe people would stop ?? I wouldn’t but maybe some would.
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userman

So what are the facts here? How did the cops locate and identify these people? What has happened to them? What charges/punishments do they face? Is any of this true and can be substantiated?

Back when Oink got closed everyone was laughing at the paranoia saying nothing would happen. Yet now it appears that things are getting worse, so lets get the facts here.
sentinel.hawk

@27, there isn’t a difference why?

@28, while I like the idea of the duct tape, they “can” yes. Are they going to, it’s highly unlikely as the costs for that kind of prosecution is extremely high.

@32, wrong… ISPs and providers must be responsible and keep logs as required by law. It varies in industry, length, pertinent information, etc…

@37, downloading music that someone slaved over for weeks if not months to steal his paycheck is moral? If you don’t like the execs fine, but remember it hurts the blue collar guy down at the bottom of the chain that uses sales to get paid his 5 digit salary.

@42, read lower posts. With technology, you better believe that it can be tracked, with hardware on the device and through computer forensics if they actually took the machine which wouldn’t surprise me to find the actual file.

@43, don’t even know how to answer that one. Just because someone walks up to gives you an illegal contract awarding you money at the expense of others you doesn’t mean you have the right to go over and beat him up when it’s determined by the police you just signed a contract for mortgage fraud.

@55, there may be laws under the terrorism statutes with broader spread, in the states there’s similar statutes except there’s been several precendents set by judges that courts cannot force people to hand over passwords. That being said, if there on public machines, there should be no expectation of privacy.

@61, see lower point, agreement was made when one downloaded it from the other knowing it would deprive sales from the owner.

@70, ok, limewire and Morpheus, noones gotten sued from downloading off those sites. *whistling*

@71, comon, lie to the police feigning ignorance and see how far that will get you. You’ll do better to just immediately ask for a lawyer and shut the hell up.

@74, the most mature thing I read on this forum, kudos

@75, By putting it up there there is an understanding that people will download it and by downloading it there is an understanding that it’s free, thus how torrents work. All the music label would have to proof is that by downloading the file they lost the sale of them buying the copy, it’s not hard to proof the agreement resulted in a loss of money for the owner of the music.

@79, right… email your police station and tell them that you download illegal music and your upset because your friends got caught for downloading illegal music. It’ll be nice.

@85, ISPs and servers keep logs of IPs and Mac addresses to point back to the victims computers, you can try to argue this point but they do. And yes, they have enough to substantiate who did what.
Anonymous

well, another good practice to use other than sophisticated salted MD5 Hashes is a script that will autowipe your hard drive if say a certain key stroke isnt made within the first minute or two of logging on. Its pretty risky but in some situations it could be useful. Or Have it AutoEncrypt with a password that NOBODY KNOWS… that would be fun.
Indeed

@ 1

Take it from an American: Yes, they are.
sentinel.hawk

@87, current computer forensics tools FTK and Encase are able to pick up fragments of a drive after it’s been wiped. That’s why the ministry of defense and it’s US equiv says in order to get delete data it has to be wiped 6 separate times through overwriting in random orders. Won’t even mention the fact that no normal person has that on there computer so you’ll have dug an even deeper hole then the police and or the prosecuting attorney will have had to since they have the ISP logs. Take your hard drive and network card and throw it in a creek is the only way to avoid prosecution which kinda negates the whole point of having the music to start with.
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