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Private BitTorrent Trackers Commit Suicide With Rising Costs

Every week, more and more BitTorrent trackers come online, the vast majority being so-called private trackers where an invite is required to gain access. However, around 50% of these aren’t making it to their first birthday, and many of them are causing their own death. The culprit? Rising costs.

Private BitTorrent trackers are usually much smaller than public trackers. More commonly ranging from 1,000 to 10,000 members (but some with many tens of thousands), these sites are often accessible by invite only, meaning that prospective users need to have direct contact with someone who is already a member.

Private sites commonly operate a ratio-based system where users are expected to upload around the same amount of data as they download, to ensure that the tracker’s ‘economy’ stays healthy. Some sites experiment with different methods of achieving the same ends, but whatever the technique the result is often more users ‘seeding’ than can be commonly found on similar torrents on public trackers, resulting in higher speeds and shorter download times.

For many in the BitTorrent community, private sites are where the real action can be found, but they also face some serious problems of their own. FileShareFreak has recently come up with a list of more than 300 private trackers launched in 2009 – of these only 179 remain online today. So what is causing the death of these sites before they even reach infancy?

In many cases sites are started by people who have no idea of the scale of the task that lies ahead of them and simply give up. Some sites are started by people who break off from other trackers after a dispute and believe they can do better and find out they can’t. While some thrive, others simply can’t carve themselves an audience or a big enough niche to satisfy their world-beating ambitions, while being hamstrung by their own invitation policy in an attempt to stay attractively exclusive.

Increasingly, however, more and more sites are simply running out of money, which is a fairly curious situation. After all, wasn’t BitTorrent created to make it really cheap to shift data around?

In themselves, the average private tracker and forum don’t cost that much to run, with many decent sized sites managing to operate for less than $150 each month – an amount easily covered by a generous sysop and a handful of small donations. But in recent years many private trackers have become very competitive – particularly with each other – as they literally race to bring content to their sites as quickly as possible and offering their demanding users the fastest download speeds.

What they are trying to achieve are great ‘pre-times.’ ‘Pre-time’ is a term used to describe how long it takes for a private tracker to make available a Scene release after it has been released (pre’d) on Scene topsites. The shorter the pre-time, the bigger the bragging rights, with the ultimate aim of the site winning the ‘race.’

Participating in these ‘races’ costs a lot of money, as the roles traditionally fulfilled by users (providing content and bandwidth) are increasingly taken on by the site itself. For many, this is becoming a crippling burden. So how much does this all cost?

Thanks to a smallish private site (6,000 users) known as StN (StoreTheNet) which chose to make its bills public as it tried and failed to justify turning their previously free site to a subscription model, we have an idea. (Please note: All the following information is already in the public domain, many private sites make no secret that they engage in this activity and StN will shutdown tomorrow.)

Around $200 per month goes to pay for site and IRC hosting and additional features to increase site security. For a ‘traditional’ torrent site setup (users provide all content and content bandwidth), that’s where the costs would end.

But of course, since this site and many others feel they have to become involved in ‘racing’ content to their site and providing ultimate download speeds, from here the costs start to skyrocket.

Around $330 is being paid every month to operators of so-called ‘topsites’ where the latest releases are ‘raced’ from, and while users of the site do contribute bandwidth via their normal sharing, these releases are initially seeded directly to the members via an unmetered bandwidth seedbox which StN says is approx $630 per month.

All these bills add up to approaching $1,200 in costs every month for what is essentially a pretty small site, so what’s the solution to bring costs down and avoid the death of yet more trackers during their first few months?

Well, first of all, many sites can achieve this amount through voluntary member donations, but a lot of private site members are also members of other trackers and they can’t possibly donate to them all. So inevitably, some are favored and others aren’t.

Another option for struggling sites (and many private site users will be stamping their feet with reddened faces at the mere suggestion) is to get out of racing altogether, instead letting users bring content and allowing BitTorrent and its users to propagate it naturally with their own home bandwidth and if they’re lucky, their own seedboxes. This will be much slower admittedly, but probably preferable to a site closing altogether. It also drastically reduces the security risk for the site itself.

Something that proves very successful for many sites is to find a niche. While all the latest movies may be a major attraction, they are also what cause the biggest burdens on a site in a myriad different ways. Niche material sites usually have great communities, great speeds and usually fly easily under the radar. Expect to see many more of these in the future.

There are hundreds of private sites out there that don’t operate in the fashion outlined above and don’t have the accompanying financial burdens, yet still achieve good times and speeds. Time will tell if the craze of the ‘race’ dies down in favor of lower running costs, or if the need for Blu-ray rips at lightning speeds prove simply too irresistible.

If the latter is true, in the end someone is going to have to pay for it.

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  • Concerned User

    In the meantime, we all loose, because some wanna “win” a race invented by themselves.

    I see a theme for a great book here… maybe someone will write it someday.

  • Self Helpless Movie

    Tough situation. Is advertising out of the question? I would gladly pay to advertise the Self Helpless torrent release within a big private community. Maybe that is a square answer, but it is an answer that could work.

    Check out more about our film’s torrent-only release at selfhelplessmovie.blogspot.com.

  • Virotelisa

    In all due rights this behavior sounds rather risky for the trackers and the scene.

    Keep in mind that part of the bit torrent legal defense is based upon the assumption that no profits are made. If you pay a certain group for releases they earn money based upon how soon they deliver (copyrighted) material, thus giving a profitable incentive to crack, rip and de-drm more and more content.

    Good for everyone you would say, as there releases eventually trickle down towards the public trackers so everyone benefits from it? Not really. While Hollywood has little scrutiny to sue as is they could use this data to point out that piracy is all about making money. And once you convince a judge its all about cash they might be more inclined to take action against bit torrent as a whole.

    And really, what is the point of having such fast releases? Patience is a virtue. It is like the weapon race between the soviet union and the US. Eventually they figure out that their weapons \ bragging rights really don’t mean a thing.

  • El Flamo

    Most of these private trackers that are die off quick have no idea how to operate a tracker properly.

  • Anonymous

    How much is it to run TPB every month?

  • Yaya

    simple solution, donations for gigs downloaded

  • r3loaded

    Good riddance, I say. The sysops of many private torrent sites in my experience are narcissistic arseholes on a power-trip who’ll ban you for any reason they desire.

  • me

    I think when someone tries to create a new private torrent site they need to poach users that currently use public sites and never try to gain users who are already part of other private trackers. Anyone who uses public trackers for download would be thrilled to find a new home where releases are just a little bit faster to hit their PC’s. If a new private tracker is trying to beat out all the established private sites they are setting themselves up for failure as it will cost them A LOT of money to make sure their pre-times are on par with the rest. Racing becomes less important when you obtain users who are used to using only the Pub sites. My advice to anyone thinking of starting a private tracker. DO NOT post ads for your trackers on places like this as all you will get is “collectors” who will never use your site but just sign up to have it. Instead go to public forums about movies or tv shows or whatever your sites niche will be and advertise there as then you will probably get users signing up that aren’t as deep down the rabbit hole of bittorrent.

  • Phineas

    lol at noobs running torrent sites.

  • Jacko

    When everyone is sharing the exact same content, pre-times no longer hold any value.
    These days 0-day trackers are a dime a dozen.
    There is nothing special about them anymore.

  • United Hackers Association

    no to you all

    haha

    A) you cant share your banned
    B) who you think owns the ISPS NOW

    hollywood
    or they theaten em

    kinda like the seedbox ovh…backdooring the ssh keys

  • Anonymous

    Anyone who wants can get into the big private trackers FL and TB.
    It’s not like it is hard to get invites / a free spot.

  • storm

    How much is it to run demonoid every month? :p

  • HappyPirate

    I don’t like this racing bullshit. And I’m really against pay-to-leech. It’s just lame.

    And don’t forget that there are many torrent sites (public and private) that offer much more than any scene racing tracker could ever offer. (Rare content, better quality rips, fansubs, fandubs,…)

    And how f’ed up has the scene become when they allow someone to charge money for top site access?

  • roar

    Anyone paying $330 for site axx is fucking stupid, and needs to get a life. Anyways, I find it hard to believe that people are paying that much for monthly axx when there are sites offering a tenth of the price… That is just ridiculous. More to the point, it’s a shame that people are making money off the scene, and anyone that is in any way affiliated to a paysite SHOULD NOT BE IN THE SCENE. Of course, this is near impossible to stop which is a shame, the scene will never be what it used to be a few years ago! People worrying about getting busted all the time, it’s just not worth it for some. Good riddance to any torrent site that is paying for scene axx!

  • Rboy

    Why is this article so negative? The majority of small businesses fail within the first year for a variety of reasons. Why should torrent sites be any different? If we get 180 new successful sites a year sounds healthy to me.

    I have only been on 3 or four private sites and only one that I actually got an invite for the rest I got on during an open sign-up period. The speeds were good but the selection of stuff was mostly limited. On those where it was better it was impossible maintain a ratio if you downloaded less popular stuff. You had to play the download and seed popular junk you did not want to subsidize the stuff you really wanted.

    Now I find all on want on upload sites like rapidshare. There are plenty of sites that post beautiful descriptions and links to all you could want without the worry of a ratio, and fill in the gaps from public torrent sites.

    Yes when I do grab torrents as a courtesy try to seed to a 1 to 1 ratio like everyone should even on public sites.

  • peruna

    I think competition makes useless private trackers fall to dust. And strongest most secure ones will survive – same happens in real the warez scene. Top sites are closed communities.

  • wut a joke

    gettorrents.org are threatening to close AGAIN for this very reason

    Post Made By Sharpie (sysop)

    right thought about posting here to tell you all if we don’t reach are target by the 26th DEC then the site will close indefinitely, I am sic to death in begging for donations to keep this site running, I will not sit here day in day out uploading torrents on my tod to keep everyone happy i have done it since the site opened in 2007. GT is no 1 for dnb so if we do close think about where you are gonna get your latest fix from, Choice is yours now guys its either help support us or we will close. 16k members WTF is going on. If not please do think about us over xmas dinner because without you guys we are no one.

    Look at their pathetic stats and the ridiculously high bills :/

    Torrents: 1,485
    Seeders: 6,577
    Leechers: 194

    Costs p/month: $450

  • lol

    decent private site will always beat public for speed and pre take call of duty modern warfare 2 public site 1000 seeders 1114 leechers download speed 200kb/s same file private site 500 seeders 400 leechers download speed 1.9mb/s public seeders are bandwidth greedy private site has rules so that doesnt happen

  • joe

    The guy from gettorrents.org should be shot. Like what a prick. There called donations for a reason and I hope his site fails and burns to the ground.

  • anon2

    trouble is, the recession has hit everyone. people dont have spare cash, just like the sites dont. when you are running out of cash each month, something has to lose out. would you risk losing your membership to a private torrent site or risk losing your connection to the power company? i know which one would go first if in that situation myself.

  • Dave.H

    New sites !!!
    1.Set up think they are going to be the biggest and best site around with a few week !!!! get real – it take time and effort

    2.Thinking that they are so good that they spam other trackers for members and try to take the credit for releases they have not put any work into getting other then downloading it from another tracker.

    3.Thinking they are going to make big $$$’s while running uch a site ???? as this already said costs can be higher then they think.

    4.Lack of skill’s even to install a tracker let alone run one these days.

    5.Ratherthen spend there time building up to be a fast / larger site they jump stright in and want everything fast and have masses of seedbox’s – hell my own site has taken years and we are still small.But we have the advantage that of the 18,000 we have there are true dedicated user of the site.

    On my own site we have cut the shear number of servers we use, we also changed server hosts that offer more for the $ or Euro.
    Changed the way the uploaders use such servers and restrict there use to a more steamlined filter to what users want.

    Restrict the number of people able to obtain the exculsive site only releases to members that are true dedicated members before allow none such users access to them who then re-post to other trackers -who 99% of the time take the credit for them themselfs ????

    Source exculsive releases via our own members or via postal services and groups.This way we are able to offer somin other then scene releases which every other site on the net will have.
    Produce our own releases such as weekly’s, Multi’s and ready to burn AVCHD Hidef dvdr’s

    All this helps keep and gain members.

    Strict rules on membership and seedbox server useage and spamming.
    Why should a user on a site with a seedbox be thought of anymore then a member on a home connection ???
    Home users will more then likley keep a torrent alive where as a seedbox user will stop dead on 1:1 and jump off it to seed else where…

    If new torrent site owners want large sites and big numbers on there releases DONT START A PRIVATE SITE !!!!! – Better to start a new public site …you will get higher peers and get known quicker – you can always go private at a later date when you are known and have the reputation to sustain the costs more..

  • john doe

    @7 r3loaded:

    “Good riddance, I say. The sysops of many private torrent sites in my experience are narcissistic arseholes on a power-trip who’ll ban you for any reason they desire.”

    Sad but mostly true, especially with general-purpose sites (avoid “zamunda.net” for instance). What’s most annoying however, is their elitist, holire-than-thou-attitude, despite the fact that, lets face it – they all tend to host the EXACT SAME CONTENT (i.e. brand new movies, shows and games, but almost nothing older than 5 years).

    Worse are the ones that get their own torrents from public trackers (seen the “Downloaded from Demonoid” sign much?) , yet forbid anyone from releasing their own to the swarm, pretty much corrupting the entire sense of file-SHARING.

    There are exceptions though, like tha aforementioned niche material sites, and of course, the Demonic Noid – a major backbone of private and public trackers alike.

    Also, I find speed generally to be a non-issue for popular files from public trackers; especially considering that you can hardly GET the rarer gems from private ones, much less get them fast.

    All in all, publics ftw!

    Well that was a nice rant; who wants cookies?

  • Truther

    I don’t agree with private torrent sites. Seems sort of ironic on how making things open, is a closed situation.

    Use DHT, just run a public site that uses Magnet links.

  • Vegas

    I was with a private tracker in the early BT days. It was a small community, 200 or so and we were exclusive. We had the rules set in place, the speeds were good and we got the scene releases first before any other BT site. Man, I miss that place. It lasted for about three years or so. The biggest thing with these private trackers in the amount of users. You gotta keep it small. Speeds nowadays are really fast, seed boxes, etc.

  • www.bitsnoop.com

    Am I missing the point or most of said private sites are doing something very wrong? I mean, why would you need $500/month to run a tracker and no-traffic website?

    And yes, private sites might be good to get specific content, but generally they suck because of moderators with “shopping mall cop” syndrome.

  • bytehead

    I know of a private tracker that went down due to hardware (IIRC), then they managed to let their domain lapse (although they claimed that it didn’t, but somebody else sure was using it), and they finally resurfaced under a new domain, still going strong.

    I just don’t understand how you lose your domain like that (unless the person with the email account got pissed off somehow…)

  • Anonymous

    ” Post Made By Sharpie (sysop)

    right thought about posting here to tell you all if we don’t reach are target by the 26th DEC then the site will close indefinitely, I am sic to death in begging for donations to keep this site running, I will not sit here day in day out uploading torrents on my tod to keep everyone happy i have done it since the site opened in 2007. GT is no 1 for dnb so if we do close think about where you are gonna get your latest fix from, Choice is yours now guys its either help support us or we will close. 16k members WTF is going on. If not please do think about us over xmas dinner because without you guys we are no one.”

    I say this is the lamest way to ask for donations, they should just ask that 450 people donate a dollar a month, with supposedly 16,000 members, that shouldn’t be that hard.

  • britt66

    I dont stick around on sites that “costs” to much.
    I just dont like it…

  • RIAAtarded

    it is sad but if you follow fsf at all there are 20+ sites opening monthly they are reviewing. Now unless your are a niche that is popular then your chances of survival are very low. Everyone now has several trackers. Most are members of some very old established ones. Good speed, large amount of content, easy to meet ratio requirement because they have the peer numbers to accommodate. Being new you have none of this so unless you have a hook of some kind users will signup but won’t use their accounts as they go back to the trackers they can get what they need out of.

    Cudos to all those that survived. Hopefully articles like this will be wakeup call to all those that think running a tracker is easy and they’ll reconsider the huge undertaking it actually is. Say their time and money.

  • iAnonymous

    If running the website itself only costs $200 then TL is packing some serious seedboxes: “TorrentLeech.org is using 14 dedicated servers in the Netherlands. For the moment we have monthly running costs of approximately 6000 euros/month.”

  • john doe

    @23:
    “And yes, private sites might be good to get specific content, but generally they suck because of moderators with “shopping mall cop” syndrome.”

    Mall cops I can torelate (though barely). Try “crusaders” – the ones that post “important” topics about their own soap-box issues (environmentalism, politics, health “threats” etc.) and ban anyone who disagrees with them.

    I totally agree with @Truther above – sharing should be open; otherwise you just might end up with another version of the MAFIAA – demanding money and exploiting their own customers, only with even more self-righteous flair.

  • Lesty

    Its like anything the weak will die off and the strong will survive.

  • Brian Fahrlander

    This is an ‘echo’ of the filesharing days of the BBS’s. It didn’t work there…so few of those attracted don’t have files to upload.

    It just doesn’t work. They’ll learn.

  • Anonymous

    Private sites suck. Work hard getting your ratio real high then the tracker goes under. All that time and bandwidth wasted. Not worth it, man.

    File hosting sites is where it’s at now.

  • Ahmed1337x

    I really feel bad about these sites, I mean they have tried hard to become a big private site but then.. we see them down…

  • GrX

    their biggest problem and i’ve said it all along is this invite only bullshit.

    soon as a site goes invite only your then expected to some how magically know someone on the inside to invite you lol

    come on! the only reason these community’s fill up is people invite trading on other forums/boards which they hand out invites to everyone and all who they don’t even know.

    How the hell can a site which is stupid invite only expect to 1 get members registered and 2 get them members paying or donating is absurd.

    i know!!! I’ll start up a wicked site (for the site to work it needs members) what can i do to restrict millions of potential dona-tors lol i know I’ll slap the site straight away as invite only!!

    yeah!!! hmm.. now how can i get members to sign-up and becoming dona-tors lol

    complete and utter morons anyone who decides to go this route.

    Bittorrent was not meant to be about private or ratio’s or restricting millions of people from using it but somehow we ended up going against the one thing it was originally designed to be used for.

  • sad

    pay per click advertising sucks. Then you have loads of people using adblock plus.

  • Anonymous

    a dedi server to run a torrent site costs MAYBE $100/month, and that’s if you don’t know how to find a good deal and think that you need tons of bandwith to run the tracker itself. that’s a complete farce and the majority of these sysops ask for these huge amounts not because the bills are that expensive, but because they want money. they pocket all. go to netcraft and find where their server is, then visit the host’s site to see how much the cost of the server REALLY is. you’d be surprised.

  • Anonymous

    When Google Code hosting came out for free, I watched all these trackers appear on there. There are other methods of providing sites than ones that cost hundreds of dollars each month.

  • www.bitsnoop.com

    @38

    If you’re not going for real unmetered 1Gbps (you usually don’t need it) – yeah, pretty much like this.

    You can host site/tracker even on $15/month virtual server, but it gonna be painful.

    Not mentioning that you can buy your own rackmount box for 1.5-2K (and that’s for a decent box) and co-locate for next to nothing.

  • United Hackers Association

    poor people sad but ive never had to donate to all hte private sites i belong too
    and ill add those that whine and give excuses are called LEECHES and bad users and have been banned for various reasons like abuse of other users and such as well as hit and running

    unlike pirate bay and other public sites
    private sites ENFORCE ratios meaning you have to give what you get back
    the above LEECHES do not nor can they wish to really share and its why IM GLAD ALL THE PUBLIC SITES GO POOF. IT is also that private sites quality of members and intelligence is MUCH higher
    and much more solid. Go ahead you leeching mouth pieces suffer and go learn why you you should have shared back.

    oh and it dont cost what you think and you can start your private site with user enabled uploading to get things going and this will spur interactions and donations and then you can move on scene stuffs.

    the invite only keeps you bad users out , it also keeps leechers and those that cant do ratios.

    the idea here is more security not open public madness like demonoids riaa and mpaa bot watchings

  • Anonymous

    Public, is what filesharing is about. And will always have the communities support. For what it worth leechers will always be with us. Let face fact’s, it’s the nature of the beast. They help keep the swarm alive. And we all start downloading by leeching.

    Private, is just what it is, they are a private enterprise whatever they’re motivation. They serve needs of few, while public sites serve masses. Private site’s proliferate because using bittorrent client protocol is simpler for most users.

    Public is what is, you get what you pay for. Any benefit you derive from downloading, hopefully you will return by seeding in kind.

    Private site use has +’s and -’s, but to those who use them. That is what they seek, ratio’s, fast speed’s and exclusive content etc…
    If it cost a little they pay, most can’t. That is why public site’s will always be larger and well supported.

    Two cent’s and then some,

    Long live ThePirateBay.org and Demoniod.com!!!!!! :D

  • GrX

    the invite only keeps you bad users out

    Complete and utter shit if i do say so myself it keeps everyone out not just bad users lol , so everyone who can’t find a friend on the inside or not lucky enough to get an invite is a bad user ??? lol i’ve heard it all now

    For your info when there’s millions of people leeching files they are also automatically seeding for as long as they are downloading so your point is moot

  • R

    He seems to be right about niche sites lasting. One of my favourites BakaBt (ak BoxTorrents) has been around since (at least) 2004, and they seem to be doing OK. Their a niche site (only serve anime), all content is uploaded by users, and they fly under the radar by avoiding content from companies known to sue trackers.

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  • Anonymous

    Wow! Does ‘United Hackers Associations’ rant sound a little like the word vomit we get from the maffia trolls on here. Enforced ratios , banning for abuse and my favorite… ‘it also keeps leechers and those that cant do ratios’. Not everyone has blazing upload speeds due to lack of funds or access to high speed networks! So those people just can’t play with your toys is it then?

    And this statement is just effing hilarious…

    the idea here is more security not open public madness like demonoids riaa and mpaa bot watchings

    Please see these articles for my rebuttal…

    Secretive private tracker UK-T Shut Down For Good, Database Deleted

    Private BitTorrent Tracker SceneTorrents(ScT) Shuts Down

    ISP TeliaSonera must hand over the identity of the Private Swetorrents BitTorrent tracker operator to anti-piracy group

    And lastly…

    BREIN Takes ‘Loop’ Top Site Offline

    Your so called private l33t sites are just as vulnerable as any other and if you think otherwise, then you deserve what you get! Stupid l33t kiddies, and to think I liked some of your earlier posts on this site!

  • Anonymous

    @45
    There’s a big difference between private bittorrent trackers getting shut down, and a topsite getting shut down. That topsite is where the warez come from before they trickle down to the bittorrent leeches. Not exactly a “private club for kiddies who think they’re l33t “.

  • lol

    @GRX everytime the point of public or pvt comeds up you always bitch about how pvt sucks, your the type of fag that has been banned from every decent pvt site there is because your reasons and logic are the same as a 5 year old stop crying because you cant join any decent site. Invite does keep ou the tards and it does make sites much better

  • elitist

    That is VERY risky, for a torrent site to be providing its own content — as it essentially becomes a warez site. Let’s not forget that the admins of Elite Torrents went to prison for personally uploading original content (in particular, a not-yet-in-theaters Star Wars movie); hopefully no more private torrent site are US-based anymore.

    No major public torrent sites do this, as they just provide a platform for users to post torrents and upload their own material.

    Private sites need a good thinning out, there are simply too many doing exactly the same thing.

  • Anonymous

    Well number 46,

    There’s a big difference between private bittorrent trackers getting shut down, and a topsite getting shut down.

    Key phrase here is getting shut down. Private, public, top site, or l33t site, shut down is shut down! Content is irrelevant.

  • scurvydogg38

    Public or private, ThePirateBay.org and Demoniod.com. Are example’s of well respected and supported in the filesharing community. Just google “Demoniod invites” an check out the results.

  • john doe

    @41 UHA:

    “private sites ENFORCE ratios meaning you have to give what you get back”

    … so that for every high-power seeder there are DOZENS of so called “leeches” lacking decent seed-boxes, and they’re regularly trimmed out by the aforementioned mall cops just for that. Yeah, that’s a GOOD business plan there.

    Despite the fact I have high ratios on the Noid and a few others, I actully seed more actively when dl-ing from publics, ’cause there it’s NOT about the ratios but just about the SHARING.

    BTW, the “can’t get an invite” and the “bad users” crap is just as bad as the “stealing” BS we already have to tolerate. Only, y’know, even more hypocritical.

  • Anonymous

    Even at the time where they were no boycott and when I was still buying DVD and still going to the movie theater I was never rushing to get or see the latest of everything.

  • Happy Private

    I use both public and private trackers. I like keeping my ratio up (at least 2:1) and I have donated to the private tracker and like the “gated community” (no ads, decent virus free content, and the rules which ensure a decent download and upload experience). The public trackers I visit I do upload 1:1 (out of respect) but I am very cautious with what I download and run scans upon scans and even then, there are no “guarantees” because there are no “checks and balances” like in a private tracker . . . all I have in public is (forgive this) a “theif’s word” – well . . . hmm . . . I like my gated community and I’ll fight for it.

  • elitist

    There is another way a private torrent site can stay alive and even profit — by being a parasite.

    http://torrentfreak.com/moviex-leeches-from-bittorrent-community-071201/

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  • jill

    @47
    That topsite is where the warez come from before they trickle down to the bittorrent leeches. Not exactly a “private club for kiddies who think they’re l33t “.

    You have no idea what you are talking about. How many scene ftp servers do you have access to…none I take it

  • NubCakers

    @3 Virotelisa

    “Keep in mind that part of the bit torrent legal defense is based upon the assumption that no profits are made. If you pay a certain group for releases they earn money based upon how soon they deliver (copyrighted) material, thus giving a profitable incentive to crack, rip and de-drm more and more content.”

    Despite your authoritative tone you obviously have very little knowledge of how the scene works. Release groups have little to do with distribution beyond pre’ing their release to their affil sites. The incentive comes from beating everyone else to get the release pre’d and bragging rights at numbers of releases.

    For once this is a reasonable quality article from TF (something of a rarity for this blog). I would point out though that the topsite -> bottom feeders (p2p) chain only works effectively if there is competition to spur the participants on. If there is no competition then people wouldn’t bother uploading content any where near as fast or as complete in coverage.

    That is why torrent racers (and blog races … and the scene races themselves) are a healthy thing – many sites will fall by the wayside but that just the cost of competition. So many n00bs have this “P2P is about sharing and if we all have this attitude everything will be the same as it is now” – WRONG, content is up now not because someone wanted to get all touchy feely but rather becasue there is a race to beat someone else to upload it. LOL, n00bs

    The racing benefits public tracker bottom feeders as well as content generally gets uploaded to public sources faster nowadays as well.

  • john doe

    @58 jill…

    By the way, how DO you tell the quality private trackers (that supposedly get all their stuff from the “scene”) from the wannabe-l33t parasites; especially with invite-only policies and no open-registration periods? “Try before you by” has always been a staple of file-sharing, so how does it apply here?

    Y’know, there’s a good reason the most popular and resislient trackers are either public or semi-private like Demonoid.

  • jill

    @ NubCakers

    Absolutely spot on.

    There is and always has been healthy competition and rivalry between release groups..the majority of idiots commenting here fail to realize that if this didn’t exist, they would have nothing to get their grubby little hands on.

    enuf.

  • john doe

    @61 jill…

    Nice try at derailing the subject, but no dice – this isn’t about the “scene” (especially considering the term doesn’t refer to a single entity, much like “Anonymous”). This is about the differences between private and public TORRENT TRACKERS, and since, by your account, the scene uses FTP, it’s tied to neither.

    Also, there is no race without losers – I’ve seen my share of poorly done scene releases, when being “first” is more important than distributing quality content. Nowadays however it’s becoming less important whether a release is scene-made, as long as it’s actually GOOD (aXXo anyone?).

  • Anonymous

    Anyone seen CG in the last few hours? Hope to God it doesn’t end up one the newly-dead – so much great stuff there!

  • Jacko

    @Jill #61

    This topic is not about release groups, because that is not the argument.
    The topic is about what happens to the releases once they get to private torrent sites.

    Many of these private torrent sites think they are one level above release groups with their big ego’s claiming that the release groups gave it to them first.

    In the BT community where there are mass file swarms, pre-times means nothing when everyone is sharing the exact same content!!!

  • roar

    @62/john doe:

    Firstly, people whining about scene releasing “crap” are p2p idiots that don’t have axx to nuke databases. Scene releases are intended for the scene, not for some kid at home that thinks he’s ultra leet because he’s on some scene tracker. Scene members won’t get any of the crap, because they’ll see on their sites that it’s nuked. Yes, unlike p2p the scene actually has some sort of quality control that is far more stringent than anything you’ll ever see on a tracker – just because shit still gets onto p2p does NOT MEAN IT HASN’T BEEN NUKED. Secondly, you say that since the scene uses ftp, it isn’t tied to trackers in any way. Ever heard of autotrading to a seedbox? Finally, as far as I know, aXXo is a reencoder that is always rlsing stuff way behind the scene?

  • NubCakers

    @62 john doe: another person who speaks authoratively but has NFI of what theyre talking about.

    The reason scene content is prized over stuff uploaded by individuals or P2P groups (in some cases) by people who know what they’re doing is scene content has quality control through scene rulesets.

    If a release doesn’t meet the requirements – which cover every aspect of the release btw – it is “nuked” and/or a proper tagged release is made.

    A scene release cannot be “first” and be out of rulesets and hence be “poorly done”… doesn’t happen, get it.

    If you’re on a scene tracker you know about releases being nuked. If your on a public tracker you don’t – thus people with less of an idea as to how to ensure they get good quality will use publics and have this attitude of yours and (LOL) blame the scene for what is their failings.

    The fact that you are pointing out aXXo as being a mark of good quality shows you to be a complete noob who has no idea what they’re talking about.

    Straight up I can tell you about 1/2 of all aXXo’s releases are below scene ruleset quality because he stupidly encodes all his release to 700MB, whereas scene rulesets define size of a release based on the run time of the title.

    People who think aXXo is high quality are either just clueless about quality in general or use public trackers where there are many fake, encoded by individual amatuers and renamed files so if a file is uploaded through an aXXo account then at least it guarentees some level of quality.

    You also say that it’s “less important as to whether something is scene made nowadays” – sorry, don’t kid yourself – of the legit files on public trackers the vast majority are scene and would’nt have replacements if they suddenly stopped being uploaded.

    Of course, p2p users that know how to do things “right” (eg. always have legit files that are high quality and not, rofl, aXXo) are on private trackers where uploaders are vetted not to mention transfer speeds and all the other benefits.

  • jill

    @ jacko

    “In the BT community where there are mass file swarms, pre-times means nothing when everyone is sharing the exact same content!!”

    So the ‘race’ is unimportant to p2pers like you? I’m sure it is and always will be.

    @ john doe

    mr. NubCakers has slapped your n00b ass around enough…I will leave you be.

    Have fun kids

  • john doe

    @65, @66…

    This is where it gets freaking hilarous:

    I don’t mind the scene as a SEPARATE entity from P2P, especially since most scene groups openly state their disapproval of it. However, that’s exactly why I find praising of scene releases on TORRENT sites a tad hypocritical – if you truly respect the scene groups, you should respect the very “rulesets” you keep referring to.

    As for aXXo and his quality, since I’ve somehow endured nd enjoyed the years of (gasp!) VHS and analog TV, I’d say his stuff is pretty good for its size and totally made my day back when I had 28kB/s max. I’m not one for nitpicking either.

    If you’re gonna diss P2P, either do it at “[Scene]Freak.com” or get in line behind neo & Raisin Bran.

  • roar

    @68/john doe:

    Did I ever say I approved of scene material being raced to torrent sites? Did I ever praise such an activity? No. It happens and I have to live with it. I think scene trackers suck, but I’m not against p2p at all (I don’t think neo/reasoned mind are anti-p2p but rather anti-copyright infringement, there is a distinct difference), I’m actually very pro p2p. Scene starts being lame starting at paysites which then feed p2p… Real sceners aren’t in it for the money, whilst paysite siteops are! If anyone deserves to be busted, it’s these siteops that are making money from warez. From a scene perspective, let’s see what scene trackers offer: more exposure, greater chance of getting busted, more people making money from warez, and no use whatsoever to sceners.

  • pLeKI

    we are scene we do it for fun not for bt. told

  • Reasoned Mind

    Very gratifying read. Something we all knew all along is true. There is no free lunch. And to think these pirate sites don’t invest a dime in the creation of the content they illegally distribute, nor do they pay anything at all to the creator’s or the right’s holders themselves. All they have is hardware, admin and bandwidth. And they STILL fail. lol

    Good riddance.

  • john doe

    @69 roar…

    Then we are at an agreement. Scene is scene and P2P is P2P and that’s it; not to mention there is next to no guarantee that a “scene” release on a P2P site (whether private or public) is actually genuine, so siteops advertising their “invite-only 100% scene-ness” really sink to new lows.

    Lastly, there are also P2P-dedicated release groups, fansubbers etc. who garner my genuine respect (and weeks of seedig their torrents)and have begun to rival the scene in terms of popularity (because actual quality, as I said, is unverifiable on P2P). I think in the next 5-10 years, they’ll be the ones to watch out for, and not sceners.

  • tadpole

    john doe, you are quite pathetic and it’s obvious you have no clue what you’re talking about. I suggest you take a back seat and refrain from embarrassing yourself any further.

    Ludicrous babble

  • roar

    @72/john doe:

    I don’t think that’s true – most talented cappers/rippers/scripters/crackers make their way to the scene… If p2p was releasing e.g. films in the same quantity that the scene does, you would see far more busts as p2p is far more insecure than the current scene setup.

  • john doe

    @74 roar…

    P2P (at least at a massive scale)is also much younger than the scene, and technological limitations have alos played their part. Nowadays, however, anyone can rip and upload a good quality movie, music CD etc.

    Scene security can also be disputed considering their (alleged) releases also reach the general public – a good (or bad) enough gap in security.

    The basic argument here is no different than “Book rewriters vs Gutenberg and the printing press”. One is indeed unmatched for quality and personal touch, but the other brings benefits to far more people.

  • Anonymous

    Have to laugh at the naivety of this john doe idgit and the refusal to look at the situation right in front of his own eyes.

    Most legit content on public p2p is scene sourced – movies and tv, th eeasy stuff to pirate …and as for games & apps the average user cannot crack protection systems full stop. God know enough P2P users screw up making a TV rip even though LMAO.

    This situation is unlikely to change because the very nature of (public) P2P: unregulated, accessible to anyone and everyone.

    Compare this to the scene “system” where groups compete to pre content: which entails suppliers, crackers (where applicable), rippers (where applicable), cappers (where applicable), packers … and so on and so forth.

    All this operates in a tightly controlled “system” where Nukers, either automated or manually, examine releases and nuke if they break rulesets – as well as other groups who release the same material examining. In turn this operates in a framework where if a group releases to many nukes they are scenebanned (kicked out, unable to pre any more releases) and groups are nuked for releasing duplicate content …

    All this provides a highly efficient framework for 1) making possible and encouraging a system whereby competition ensures that all possible content is released – and you wouldn’t believe … like Ive seen estimates that perhaps 10% of scene content makes it out of scene FTP sites, that’s up for debate of course …

    … and 2) All content is released to a quality7 standard.

    Because public p2p is so uncontrolled, random and arbitrary – the complete opposite of how the scene “system” runs, no such equivalent has any chance of coming into being.

    You can see a small example of this when comparing private scene trackers to public:

    Private: no fakes, uploaders vetted so they have server for seeding (=waiting 15 mins for a TV show as opposed to days), scene access (=consistent site-wide quality)

    Public: renamed fake files, files uploaded by amatuers using less than stellar method of encoding, malware/virii in apps, uploaders seed from home connection so SLR ratio is enormous and hence torrent is woefully slow to complete a copy in the swarm.

    Public trackers are crap and the nature of p2p ensures it will never have the conditions to race content (=motivation to obtain and upload such content).

  • john doe

    I am a nub that has 0 idea of what Im talking about but I dont like to feel as though Im common and dont know much so Ill continue to defend p2p and badmouth where most of my content comes from (the scene) in order to feel good about my filesharing habits.

  • john doe

    Because I dont like to think Im not part of an exclusive group (the scene – it conflicts with my quaint “Sharing is Caring” ideals) I’ll babble BS about how the scene is not working at all and how p2p can operate just like the scene.

    Even though no evidence for this happening can be seen and all my public trackers are full of low quality files to sort through and (here’s the killer lol) almost all the legit content comes from the scene.

    I am a pot smoking babbling nub living in lala land.

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  • john doe

    Good Gravy, it appears I have multiple personality disorder! … or some guy made a troll that makes the #chans look original.

    Anyway, I like @76 Anon’s description of the scene, public and private system, however:

    On P2P (even on private sites) scene releases can be faked, bugged, trojaned etc. There’s no real guarantee of quality. That’s why I draw the aforementioned scene/P2P line.

    General purpose private sites with few dedicated uploaders usualy get most of their content from public ones. So mostly it’s a 50/50 content exchange between privates and publics.

    On the other hand, publics like BTjunkie have a very responsive rating system so traps are easy to note and avoid; the private sites I’ve seen… not so much, and there are STILL crappy releases, even with all that supposed moderation.

    Lastly, “legit” contents comes from LEGIT sources. No amount of cracking and reencoding hides the fact that you’ve copied someone else’s work; nor can you complain when it’s done to you.
    All in all, it’s a glass house situation.

  • tadpole

    “General purpose private sites with few dedicated uploaders usualy get most of their content from public ones. So mostly it’s a 50/50 content exchange between privates and publics.”

    Aw plz…stfu

  • john doe

    @80 tadpole…

    Ah, another #chan worthy comment; a graceful retort indeed.

    Considering that most private sites don’t HAVE a lot of the older torrents (why, 10 telesyncs of “The Happening” are MUCH more important to keep) , I’d say it’s a fair trade of content.

    Still, it also depends on the user – if you want new and want it fast – go for privates. If you seek the rarer/older gems and have no problem keeping the box on overnight – publics are your friends.

    And yes, sharing is caring.:-)

  • Dave.H

    Horses 4 Courses….

    Public:
    Large swarms
    Long life time of there releases More of the rare files.

    This is due to the shear number of users on there torrents.

    Downfall of public trackers:
    lack of rules in what users can and cant do and the fact users seem to think having masses of torrents active at one time is good ???
    When in fact less is better for speed’s.

    Private:
    Dedicated users of the site and know eaither by the rules of the site or having used private trackers know what is expected of them.
    Faster releases of the newest films music apps
    Site only releases not found else where till leaked to the public.
    Faster speeds due to the rules of the site.
    Private sites more willing to provide fast bandwidth via servers as there users expect it as they are a private site.

    Downfall of private sites:
    Can be hard to keep a good ratio when compeating against fast seedbox.
    Can be hard to get membership and keep it.
    Rules are inforced so that users have to seedback.
    Torrents tend to live shorter on private sites making common releases harder to find some 30 days or less after release.

    Each sort of tracker has it’s own place and it’s own users.
    However how many time i hear from people “i normaly use such and such public tracker and there speeds are so slow ???”

    Out and Out ratio systems as used on many private tracker are all aimed at high speeds users and used to whittle out the less then able home users.Or as some say to inforce a donation system for such users to be able to keep account on them as there is no possable way to keep a good ratio.

    Even though i have a seedbox i’m still dumbfounded as to how at times i’m still not able to seed back s much as i would like to some private trackers. Just this week i downloaded a 29Gb file with seeders in the low 100′s and leechers in the 500-600 and was still only pushing 1Mbit’s when the server is more then able to push 10Mbit’s – just howmany of the 100 odd seeders are box owners when another is being restricted to 1Mbit due to over seeding ????
    If a home user was also on this torrent there is no possable way that he would every been able to seed 1:1 and thus his ratio would fall..do this on to many torrents and that it !!!! ACCOUNT BANNED or forced to DONATE ????

    I personal dont like the term Pay to Leech as so many people call it for such sites !!!! What they should call it is Pay to Seed as in donating they are basicaly enabling other with the servers to do there share of the seeding for them using the funds generated by donations.

    As to the problem of ratio’s i personaly dont use ratio sytems on my site. We use a H&R system which looks at each user and there torrents they have active and insure if they were able to carry on seeding to downloaders but choose not to they are then warned.
    This means as long as they seeded what they took when able to and still were not able to upload to a 1:1 ratio through no fault of there own they are not going to get penilized for it ..as it was not there own fault.

    This to myself and staff make it a very fair system and will not mean high speed users and seedbox users are perfered over the home downloaders.In fact the home users will be of more benifit and dedciated then the high speed users who get what they want seed it back in super quick time and jump of the torrent sooner meaning sudden torrent death sooner if they were all high speed users.

    If i could afford to i would switch my own site back to a public tracker at the drop of a hat-LOL
    In the old days when i operated a public tracker and posting open torents to Suprnova it was not uncommon to see peer values in the 1000′s and near on every torrent had peer values in the 100′s.
    Now as running the site private we are running peer values at best in the low 100′s on the most wanted releases but torrents do die within 14 to 30 days compared to torrents on the old site lasting months to a year !!! LOL

    To switch to public now would mean losing control of the user base we already have as in doing so would mean users would see the public indexer and we would never see most of them other then a value on the peer list -LOL
    This in turn would mean that costs would never be met and the death of the tracker in a short space of time.

    As to security i can only speak on behalf of my own site and say that we take every effort possable to insure the site is secure and that rouge members from the Mp@@ and alike dont get on or if they do dont stay on there for long.
    We do operate a DMCA take down if requested and instructed to do so in the correct manner but as of late we have not had any !!! which is good.
    None of my users have every had a letter from there ISP in connection to a torrent got from my site unlike torrents they get from public trackers at times???

    Thats not to say that the tracker is falying under the radar as that would not be possable due to the fact that my first tracker when public was forced to shut down in 2005 by the MP@@ and we still carrie the same name and the new site can still be found using the old sites domain name …LOL

    I use public and private sites as like i said they all have there place in the P2P world and i’m aware of the pro’s and con’s of each.

  • ET

    personally i feel that open tracker on a closed community?? possible??

    or Admin/ mod pay or a pay for leech system.

    http://www.epictorrents.com

  • ultraleetj

    this article is yet another thousand reasons why private trackers are so stupid. I am not really interested on getting the content before everyone else… then they all say the industry is greedy, hypocrites!

  • Completegibberish

    It’s all bullshit IMO.
    People want free files but in their mind free means just that. Supporting the site would be paying to them and they DAMN SURE ain’t gonna do that. Whereas if the site charges a fee then they ASSUREDLY face charges instead of POSSIBLY facing by hosting the data/links

    I know if the sites start circling the hole then we will all be pushed and pushed and eventually have crap to choose from,be forced onto the already dying usenet or simply doing without.

    Support the sites you cheap bastards as if they die, start pointing in the mirror 1st when trying to figure out why it died.

  • Power2All

    Bullshit.
    I run a torrent tracker (AniRena) on a Celeron 1.2Ghz with 1gig of memory, having 40k members, 200k peers every hour, announce server is at 650m hits within 25 days, using modified OpenTracker for use with MySQL.
    And what am I paying ? Nothing, cause I got the server for a year for free, and after that, it will be 20 euro per month.
    Compared to those “200$” crap, is just bullshit.

  • Anonymous

    Do all sceners sound like a bunch of circle jerking gay boys? I mean really, what good is your crap if you don’t share it with everyone?

    Ooooh, look how fast I can get it on a site. I’m better than you because I have a secret club and we have special rules and really cool decoder rings too! What a bunch of ass packers!

    Most of the stuff I download is NOT scene crap, its typically ripped by someone who has purchased it legally and are now sharing it with others because they want to. And as far as quality goes, if you read the comments posted about the upload you can tell if its screwed up or not.

    Reasoned Mind feel free to use your storm troopers to take these boils on the butt of society down!

  • Anonymous

    Doh! Forgot to close the bold statement after the word ‘not’.

  • Power2All

    @87
    To be honest, Im a member of a private group, but I didn’t join it cause of that reason you point down.
    The reason Im with a private tracker, is that the group I joined mostly got very fast nice stuff online, compared to public places which mostly have no seeders.

    I know what you mean, but some groups arn’t like that, and my tracker is fully public, and I don’t back off that easly (running since 2003 a tracker).

  • Anonymous

    john doe is such a blowhard LMAO”

    john doe: “On P2P (even on private sites) scene releases can be faked, bugged, trojaned etc. There’s no real guarantee of quality.”

    Wrong. Whwn you have vetted uploaders that does not happen. john doe prolly thinks Demonoid is good representation of a private tracker – and that it is a private tracker…

    john doe: “General purpose private sites with few dedicated uploaders usualy get most of their content from public ones.”

    Sorry but what fing planet are you living on? Next you’ll be telling us that ViSION, IMAGINE, STG, METiS, EuREKA release all their files on public trackers and their accounts at TL are just fakes LMAO… serious case of nub needing to STFU before he makes himself look more stupidly retarded. Let alone the fact that most general trackers have scene feeds LMAO.

    john doe: “On the other hand, publics like BTjunkie have a very responsive rating system so traps are easy to note and avoid; the private sites I’ve seen… not so much, and there are STILL crappy releases, even with all that supposed moderation.”

    YOU DONT NEED A “RESPOnSE SYSTEM WHEN NO FAKES FILES ARE UPLOADED IN THE FIRST PLACE. LMAO

    You haven’t see any private sites so you have 0 idea of what your babbling about.

    No Demonoid is not a private site either mor00n, its TPB with a password.

  • Anonymous

    so why doesn’t this john doe mor00m name any of these supposed private trackers he has experience of where fakes are upped, public files are upped and scene rls are renamed?

    Ill tell you why: hes talking out of his a55

  • john doe

    @90, @91…

    First of all, I already said I consider Demonoid a semi-private site – and better for it; so much for that.

    I do have an account in it though, as well as the trackers Zamunda.net and Arenabg.com – both are relatively small, local and with few torrents and seeds apart from the brand new stuff (though the Arena has a direct pay2download catalogue). Both also have their share of mall cops, as well as horrible seeding support, so its become nigh impossible to up your ratio, even for the new stuff.

    Lastly, both tend to upload new releases AFTER they’ve become available on a public site (blatantly obvious for Demonoid torrents).

    So tell me, oh mighty privateers, what sites can YOU recommend, so that I can enlighten myself by joining them?

  • Anonymous

    What your completely nub mind has failed to realise is that Demonoid is somewhat unique in that it is operates as a smallish tracker that indexes torrents of major public sites and that is where most heavily seeded torrents originate from.

    Demonoid operates its own tracker but it indexes other public sites so its no better than any other indexer such as Mininova when it was operating. Hence of course public trackers such as TPB are up first, torrents can’t be indexed unless they exist.

    If you want a few recommendations from me as to private trackers that are beginner home user friendly (ie no seedbox with good site policies to assist home users seed and offer chances of redemption until you get teh hang of things) I’d suggest Funfile, PreToMe & TorrentLeech but there are certainly others…

  • john doe

    @93…

    Well, NOW we’re getting somewhere. Regs are closed, but I’ll keep checking for invites & reg-keys every now and then, see what turns up. Thanks for the help.

    Who knows, maybe my opinion of privates has only been ruined by the crappy ones I’ve seen so far. After all, I only joined them because they’re in my own country and considering the shitty state of everything ELSE here… you get the point.

    By the way @91, who’s more n00bish – the n00b or the n00b who tries trolling him with misspelled l33t sp34k?

  • john doe

    Well, the deed is done; I’m now a member of a Bittorrent site whose name you feed to sick people with a spoon from a bowl.

    So far, so… meh. Sure, speed is nice (I’m test dowloading a new release, 1MB/s is less than I expected, currently seeding at 5kB!) , but the content I usually look for (Anime) is almost nonexistant. Is it just this site, or are privates in general zealously overhyped?

    Only… time… will… tell…

  • ick

    Can’t say I didn’t see this coming.

  • Anonymous Coward

    I would pay good money for a site that specialized in old software — a place where I could go looking for Windows 2000 or WordPerfect for DOS and be sure to find someone seeding it. Sort of the opposite of the race you describe. In addition to being cheap to run, by only offering things that are no longer available from the publisher, such a site and its users would be very unlikely to end up as a target of the anti-piracy goons.

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  • ..torrentphile..

    I would love to see a world where private sites don’t exist. Sadly that just cant happen. bittorrent sites where made so that people could share their files with the world freely. For always free high quality downloads… i use torrentphile.blogspot.com its an upcoming site devouted to sharing the wealth. Communism? i think not

  • Anime Lover

    Semi-private rule system but open registration BakaBT FTW

  • torrentsuck

    Torrents are so 1990s. Rapidshare and usenet is where it’s at. No having to deal with asshole sysops and ratios, etc.

  • SeedBytes

    http://www.seed-bytes.com/

    New HD/HQ site that opened back in july and is still around. The site has recently had a ton of new users and is going through a holiday free leech. You should sign up while its open for the holidays.

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