Student Bay Admin Prosecuted in Sweden

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December 3, 2011
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After a process lasting more than three years, a man from Sweden has finally been prosecuted for his role in the operations of Student Bay, a site dedicated to the sharing of textbooks. Despite prosecution attempts to link a Pirate Bay founder to the site, the 23-year-old is the only person in the spotlight. An apology requested by The Pirate Bay for wrongful accusations appears to have gone unfulfilled.

While the sharing of music, movies and games is commonplace on the Internet, in recent years availability has extended to books of all kinds.

Some of the most sought after publications are those hunted by students since the paper-based textbooks they are forced to buy in order to conduct their education are notoriously (some would say artificially) costly.

Inevitably, though, where there’s a cost to be cut, pirates have a cutlass, and in March 2008 a new website called Student Bay appeared, aimed at making students’ lives less expensive.

“In Sweden, education is claimed to be free of charge. Despite this students are forced every term to spend thousands of kronor on books necessary for their education,” the site owners said in their launch press release.

“Student Bay does not publish the course books as a whole, rather we divide them up in chapters, so that one can download them for personal use,” they continued.

While having reservations about the site’s legal status, the Swedish National Union of Students said they thought Student Bay had every chance of becoming successful, adding that the fact that the site exists should be a signal to publishers that they need to do more in the digital domain.

The Swedish Association of Educational Publishers, FSL, were less enthusiastic and said that the development of a market place should not be driven by criminal activity.

Since the site had things in common with another very famous file-sharing site – not least its name and logo – it wasn’t long before Student Bay attracted the wrong sort of attention. Within days of the site appearing online people began making connections to The Pirate Bay’s Gottfrid Svartholm (aka Anakata). He publicly denied having anything to do with running of the site.

During December 2008 the Swedish Association for Educational Writers (SLFF) finally reported Student Bay to the police but despite his denial, prosecutors confirmed that Svartholm remained a target in the investigation along with another individual.

“The funny part is that [SLFF] also decided to press charges against Anakata because they claim he is part of this site,” Pirate Bay said in a statement. “We don’t really know why. Our suspicion is that this is because Anakata used to run the ISP which hosts The Student Bay.” Student Bay had indeed been hosted at PRQ, a so-called “bullet-proof” host previously owned by Svartholm.

But while Pirate Bay is free for anyone to use, Student Bay was not. Users not uploading material to the site were required to subscribe via a $3.00 premium SMS to access content, much of which was stored on file-hosting sites such as RapidShare. Pirate Bay openly disapproved of the approach and said that they hoped Student Bay would remove the requirement as it was against Pirate Bay “ideals”.

It isn’t clear if Student Bay fulfilled the request to go completely free but under pressure the site closed in May 2009.

Yesterday, nearly 3 years after the initial complaint, prosecutor Frederick Ingblad confirmed that a 23-year-old man has been prosecuted for founding and running Student Bay. He is charged with violating and assisting in breaches of copyright law between August 2008 and May 2009, and charged with “regularly receiving and assimilating payments” from site users, which appear to total around $8,000.

Gottfrid Svartholm is mentioned nowhere in the complaint and earlier requests from The Pirate Bay for a formal apology for the wrongful accusations appear to have gone unanswered. Meanwhile, attempts at breaking the textbook monopoly continue.

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Ameliaisnude

better go to relax at http://www.deviloid.net/torrents.php
- Dwpbike
  
  while “sluts in training” isn’t a necessary text for college girls, it seems like hands on training would be more appropriate
http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

StudentBay was a great idea regardless of which course you were doing, but it would’ve been especially helpful to law students because, for some weird reason, the cost of these texts were quite literally extortionate.

But I guess that’s one reason why so many in the law profession are so snooty and deem themselves to be “more worthy” than their fellow Humans.

All text books should be $1 anyway …
- Anonymous
  
  Which is mostly symbolical?
- http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja
  
  Rob, it went wrong the moment he charged for access. I’d understand a donation or flattr button and a few ads but charging ultimately made the site meet its end. I completely agree that most books are way overpriced but I’m with TPB in this one, he did it wrong when he charged.
  
  As for the $1 textbooks I believe it’s a bit low. You could charge the books per page (and even allow some1 to buy specific chapters in case of books aimed at students). I’d guess that a fair price yould be $0,01 per page. Yes, 1 cent per page for digital copies (for physical it would be that plus production and distribution costs). And every book should be available online for free as in a library so you’d buy to support the author, not to own a copy (in the digital case). Obviously 1 cent per page is some sort of guideline. I’m sure you’ve read books that are worth much more than you paid. Maybe a donation button (or flattr) in the author’s page is all we need.
Ameliaisnude

student gays ? ;)

lolz
- It’s a fit-up
  
  Oh do grow up.
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Alyssa Blindy

Sharing is caring, and these people made you pay for use of the service. I am kind of glad that site is closed.
- Ogra
  
  Really? They charge $3, and you’re upset with them? They provide a service that students want and need (textbooks at extremely reasonable prices), and that should warrant their closure?
  
  There is absolutely nothing wrong with making money. They need to support themselves and gain profit, and there is absolutely nothing that should prevent them from doing that.
  
  Even among torrent sites, many choose to use advertising as a means of gaining money. Personally, I prefer paying myself. I like knowing that I’m the customer being catered to, instead of the product being sold to advertisers.
  
  Them making people pay isn’t a good reason to want them closed; it’s only a good reason to want someone else to open something even cheaper.
  - Hellscream Gold
    
    And you’re a moron. He made profit off of copyrighted material. Had he been giving it away, then they likely would have ignored him.
    - Ogra
      
      The traditional way that they’ve always viewed these websites is under the lens that they all make money. I’m not saying that is accurate, but that is the perception authorities and the copyright industry, particularly since many filesharing websites use advertising or subscription services as a way to make money. Aside from that, they also believe that the mere existence of the website is a threat to their profits. There is no reason to believe that they would have left Studentbay alone if they hadn’t charged the $3 membership. If you think there is a reason to believe that, explain it.
      
      As for them making profit off of copyrighted material, I am of the opinion that it should be just as legal to sell copyrighted material as it is to give copyrighted material away. Any limitations telling me what I can and can not do with my own property, including selling it, are violations of property rights and are severe infringements on liberty.
    - LaticiaBowman
      
      $3, and ppl complain… I guess next time they are going to complain about the .99 store being too high…
      Also this reads like a planted story, no time to serve, no info on a fine if given, etc
  - Alyssa Blindy
    
    I guess that can be one way of thinking about it, however, my view is more on the idea of complete freedom of information, both in price and control. So the payment thing, especially because you have to pay via some type of SMS subscription, is a bit iffy. It would be different if you paid to get rid of advertisements, but my view on “pirate” sites is that they should exist so long as you are not required to pay for the product that you are pirating. Maybe it is because I am not a pirate in the first place; I only use torrents and file uploading services for legal uses. That does not stop me from encouraging the breaking of the monopolies, and free information. I believe that the only person or people who can charge are people who have some type of right to the product, otherwise others must give that product for free. If I wanted a copy of a CD emailed to me, and the person asked me to pay for that copy, I would think that is quite absurd, and I probably would not give the money. In the case where I asked for a physical CD, I would pay a few dollars to you solely for your purchase of a physical blank CD. The copy should be free if it is not coming from the rights holder. I think that rights holders should also adapt their business model to make music and other culture cost less so that more people will subscribe and get that service in a legitimate manner.
    - Ogra
      
      Information will only be completely free if people choose to make it that way. If they don’t, that’s fine too. The only thing we really need to be concerned about is that no one places restrictions
      
      To make this clear, we can’t have negative actions, where someone brings legal or other punishing actions actions against someone who offers information. For example, if someone was brought to court for sharing or selling copyrighted information they don’t own, that’s a negative action. That’s something that can not be allowed. The other side to this is positive actions, where people provide information. An example of these would be someone actually hosting a filesharing website, or anyone choosing to sell information. We can’t choose to mandate how people offer these services. If we don’t like what someone offers, we just don’t deal with them, but that’s no reason for the law to get involved.
      
      In short, we can object on the basis of justice when someone punishes someone else for offering information. We shouldn’t object when someone offers that information, but with restrictions. The solution should be either someone else offering it for less, or everyone dealing with what’s available. That’s the free market.
      
      We don’t have any particular need to make all information free. That isn’t the nature of the world. An easy example of this is personal privacy. That’s one of the most important aspects of the internet age, but it violates the freedom of information. After all, if I want privacy, I’m making it harder for anyone to get information on me.
      
      Freedom of information only applies to disallowing restrictions about what people are willing too give, or to an institution that is publicly funded. It’s an ideal, but Studentbay not meeting your personal conception of it is no reason to justify legal action against them.
    - Alyssa Blindy
      
      I see where you are coming from. Thank you for sharing your views with me.
    - Ogra
      
      Any time friend. I’d be interested in hearing your take on the issue. From what I can glean, it seems you take more of a philosophical stance on this. Have a good day.
    - Alyssa Blindy
      
      Yes, a philosophical view is exactly what I have regarding this.
  - http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett
    
    it warrented closure becuase the people behind it were profitering from the true meterail owners, the person had no right what so ever to request payment for the files, it was totally up to them to start the site, host etc.
    - Ogra
      
      They were profiting…. so? Who cares? If they were giving it away for free, no one would care. Why do you care if they sold it? The only difference is profit, and there is no sin in profit.
      
      I say the owner most certainly had the right to request payment for the files. He made the copies, he can do whatever he wants with them. If he wants to give them away, that’s great. If he wants to sell them, also great.
      
      In all seriousness, what’s wrong with him requesting payment? Why can he start the website, host the material (if they were hosting it, I’m not sure), but not request payment? That seems arbitrary.
    - http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett
      
      i hate the fact the reply button always gets hidden becuase of the rigth side bar. anyways.
      
      @Ogra explain how they are given stuff away for free when they demand payment to get to the items in the first place. thats not free.
      
      i would love it if you ended up in court and tried your arguments to win your defence, becuase im 1005 sure you would be laughed at
    - Ogra
      
      My point isn’t that they are giving things away for free, my point is that it SHOULDN’T MATTER! If they want to give it away (like a traditional torrent website), that’s fine. If they want to offer a subscription (like Studentbay), that’s also fine. If they want to charge piecemeal (like itunes), that’s also fine. It shouldn’t matter.
      
      To put this simply, it’s a violation of property rights.
      
      The reason it is currently considered illegal is because politicians have introduced the concept of intellectual property into law, which is a fancy way of saying that they’ve made it legal for someone to dictate what I can and can not do with my property. It’s a violation of property rights, and must be repealed.
      
      Let me ask you something; why should it matter if they’re charging money? Why? Answer that one question for me.
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Mwhahaha

Hate to rain on the parade here guys….

Whilst we’ll always have Justin Beebers (sp?) doing it for the fun of it on the internet for your musical enjoyment first and foremost, some guys have to research and write these text books and then edit and fact check them. This doesn’t come cheap and they’re playing to a very very limited audience. You won’t get a billion people buying say a sociology or chemistry text book. It will rarely be made into a film…

I don’t agree that the cost should be fully taken by the student, as this gives an unfair financial advantage in education, but lots of countries have grants etc for students in financial hardship. I’d like you to find me one person who didn’t buy beer the entire time they were studying with these books.

Just saying, if you want a world full of morons who learn things from inaccurate books, wikipedia or worse, science books written by the fundamentalist Christian right, then go ahead keep discouraging those educational authors.

Having said that I think that copyright on these should finish at the authors death or after ten years, as most text books are out of date then anyway and there ought to be better check put in place to make sure new editions are actually called for.

But till then, take your films, take your games, take your music, I’m there with ya. If these industries become e-cottage industries, then that will be great. Some things are kinda too important to mess with though. Let’s not kill the educational press and leave us all wondering how to wire a plug. This is the tip of a very dangerous iceberg.

I’m in danger of turning into the Daily Mail, may god help us all….
- X-Fi6
  
  Then why is Wikipedia one of the best resources in human establishment?
  - Ogra
    
    Depends on what you mean by “best”. It’s rife with false information, it’s not scientifically verified (the citation system doesn’t guarantee accuracy when no one needs to keep checking the sources), and what parts of it are correct are disjointed and hard-to-understand (particularly for anyone who isn’t already well-versed in the topic they’re reading about).
    
    It’s wonderful as a tool for very basic research and for cultural phenomena. For actual scientific reliability, it’s problematic.
    
    That all applies if you think it’s a good tool or model for teaching students. However, if you’re just noting that it’s a wonderful thing, then I agree. It is. That doesn’t mean it meets standards for teaching.
    - http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA
      
      i disagree. It is probably the best resource online. For ONE reason.
      It’s place in the “”Structure of resource dissemination”".
      
      Wikipedia is not the know everything site.
      It doesn’t pretend….. or try to be.
      It is the main Node…… of a “”Structure of resource dissemination”"
      A home page for jumping further….. into the subject from.
      
      Citations , external & internal links are the key to Wikipedia.
      (rating system helps)
      
      Given , there are better….specialist subject orientated …sites out there…
      But the purpose of Wikipedia is NOT to be the site with all the knowledge..
      Rather……..the site that will get you to the knowledge you require.
      
      Good example…. search for Actionscript
      
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActionScript
      Has some basic, accurate and relevant info about Actionscript in GENERAL…
      
      The beauty is …… all the links that enable you further your knowledge.
      You get essential info for further internet searches.
    - Ogra
      
      Wikipedia is great, but it doesn’t do everything. It has a few problems. The first is the incomprehensibility of scientific articles to everyone except those already versed in the subjects. The second, and probably the most damaging, is the problem of omitted information. Omissions of relevant data are very common, and these can be even more damaging than false data (which, thankfully, tends not to last to long). Finally, the citations that they have go through a very minimal vetting process, and can easily be inaccurate. It’s good if Wikipedia gives you a place to jump-start research, but that doesn’t help if the links they provide aren’t accurate, which remains a problem because the constant change of scientific ideas combined with the immense logistical problem of having all the citations verified by someone knowledgeable about the subject.
      Example; for a very long time time (at least 3 years), their article about psychological repression had claims based on Freud’s theories, which by that point had been proven false. They had citations that looked accurate because they linked to Freud’s theories. That’s the sort of thing I mean.
      
      For it’s purpose of general knowledge and links to basic research, it’s great. For higher-level veracity and reliability, it doesn’t meet standards. That’s fine.
      
      I just spoke up because it sounded to me like he was endorsing the primacy of Wikipedia use in higher education, which is thankfully not a reality. It’s possible I misunderstood his intention.
    - Anonymous
      
      ANoiXioNA:
      
      Your writing style includes an excessive use of newlines and punctuation and the formatting you insert pushes it all the way to horrendous. Please refrain from making my eyes bleed if you care whether or not I (and people who share my distaste) read your comments.
      
      In addition, the polite way I had intended to tell you this was shattered when I clicked on your name- hoping to be forwarded to a blog with a comment form or some other private communications medium- and was “rickrolled” (I use the term loosely.) Rickrolls are all in good fun, as long as I’m able to close the fucking the rickroll once the laugh is over, without closing my browser. Usurping control of my browser to the extent the link in your Disqus profile does is obscene.
      
      I invite you to fix both blights, and suggest you correct the latter before someone that actually matters gets upset.
    - http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA
      
      @Anonymous
      
      don’t admit it…. everything you say is just a grievance from a HARMLESS rickroll….
      
      What are other people doing in the background with your browser ?
      IF that’s what a SMALL bit of code can do……. WHAT are you missing ?
      WHY do you let javascript run freely in your browser ?
      WHY do you click links from an untrusted source ? WITHOUT A CONDOM ON
      
      DON’T think about it….. or change anything… get annoyed at me instead…
      
      as for……..
      My wRitiNG STyLe is………
      = DONT like ? DONT READ ….= BLAME YOURSELF
    - Anon
      
      ANoiXioNA, considering six people agree you should probably grow up and listen.
      
      The only thing more annoying than a non native speaker is someone that purposefully uses poor writing habits. The only thing more annoying than that is one who does it knowing everyone around him hates it.
      
      As you say though, “DON’T think about it….. or change anything… get annoyed at me instead…”
    - Anonymous
      
      ANoiXioNA:
      
      For one thing, I already explained why I clicked the link- I thought I would hunt you down and politely, privately express my thoughts on your writing style and use of formatting.
      
      For another, “Y U USE JAVASCRIPT” is a pretty foolish argument for yourself. You intentionally and sneakily caused an inconvenience to another person. It wasn’t my responsibility to avoid it. You, not I, are the one breaking basic netiquette conventions.
      
      Lastly, it’s only a matter of time before you get yourself banned from commenting somewhere because a moderator on some blog decides:
      1) You don’t contribute anything useful to the discussions.
      2) You use excessive amounts of formatting that shouldn’t be used on a blog comment period.
      3) Users shouldn’t have to tip-toe on eggshells around links on their site (a site they trust) simply because there’s user-generated content.
    - http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA
      
      @Anon
      “”ANoiXioNA, considering six people agree you should probably grow up and listen.“”
      So six people +1( 7 ) tell me to do whatever….. I should ?
      And that wouldn’t be childish ?
      
      “”The only thing more annoying than a non native speaker is someone that purposefully uses poor writing habits. The only thing more annoying than that is one who does it knowing everyone around him hates it.“”
      Something more annoying… is someone trying to DiCTATE to others…. on how to communicate. Especially if the communication is understood… not aggressive …. threatening …. abusive or even plain ignorant….
      
      …parrot back my words…
      “”As you say though, “DON’T think about it….. or change anything… get annoyed at me instead…”"
      I am not annoyed… I do think about it…. I may modify it ( I do… as when )
    - Anonymous
      
      ANoiXioNA:
      
      “And that wouldn’t be childish ?”
      Doing what the majority suggests because the majority suggests it is childish. Doing what the majority suggests because it makes sense is decidedly not.
      
      “Something more annoying… is someone trying to DiCTATE to others…. on how to communicate. Especially if the communication is understood… not aggressive …. threatening …. abusive or even plain ignorant….”
      Your attempts at communication is barely understandable, overly defensive (which is a form of aggression), you’ve done much more than threaten- you’ve been a script-kiddie fool bent on interfering with others’ pleasant days for the laughs, and I’m sure there are portions of the ToS on many sites where you’ve posted that link that would agree that it is an abuse of the commenting privileges you’ve been given. I think it’s clear who’s blindly ignorant here.
      
      “…parrot back my words…
      I am not annoyed… I do think about it…. I may modify it ( I do… as when )”
      The eight languages I know would agree that you just succeeded at not completing something so basic as a sentence.
    - http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA
      
      @Anonymous
      
      get annoyed by what really matters ….
      people trying to destroy TorrentFreak with counterfeit store links onsite.
      
      I thought I would hunt you down and politely, privately express my thoughts on your writing style and use of formatting.
      You don’t like it…. I get it.
      “”Hunting me down”" wtf .. to privately express your dislike….
      Nice of you … thanks for the thought .. i think.
      
      “”For another, “Y U USE JAVASCRIPT” is a pretty foolish argument for yourself”"
      Agree it is a foolish argument. I was wrong to use it…But it is a valid point.
      
      “”You intentionally and sneakily caused an inconvenience to another person. It wasn’t my responsibility to avoid it. You, not I, are the one breaking basic netiquette conventions.”"
      this is the valid point here….The link is what ?
      /ANoiXioNA-personal-info
      So It begs the question as to WHY you want my personal info ?
      YOU WANT IT ? …. you get rickrolled.
      WHATS YOUR PERSONAL INFO…. tell me … go on …
      
      also…………It’s a RICKROLL
      YOU are upset by a rickroll & the way I format text.
      seriously….. ? … how do you cope with real issues ?
      How do you cope with the “kill them”" comments that some post ?
      
      Don’t even mention the content of my original comment..I wouldn’t either
      
      I don’t communicate with people who commit apostrophe abuse …or people who misuse ellipsis …people who put a “space” before a question mark( they are the worst ).
      I also don’t communicate with … people with speech impediments … people with tourettes …ANYONE with a foreign accent….OR anyone who talks with a high pitched voice even tho , they can speak “”properly”".
      
      Lastly, it’s only a matter of time before you get yourself banned from commenting somewhere because a moderator on some blog decides:
      1) You don’t contribute anything useful to the discussions.
      And your examples are…. ?
      What was my original comment about ?… Wikipedia or something useless ?
      
      2) You use excessive amounts of formatting that shouldn’t be used on a blog comment period.
      OPINION.. That is not a factual statement. Some think I don’t use enough…
      
      3) Users shouldn’t have to tip-toe on eggshells around links on their site (a site they trust) simply because there’s user-generated content.
      It’s a classic rickroll. NOT links to porn or anything sinister.
      
      **I contribute to various blogs allot , under different aliases.
      Always flag abusive, threatening comments.for mods etc….
      help get rid of spammers ….
      latest conquest HERE @ TF … helped to stop Counterfeit store spammers from using nirl.eu to spam their links….
      Also got lots of .TK domains.. redirection disabled for spammin counterfeit stores @ HERE.
      Current spammers services are…. linkhide.com.ar & phlpn.es…..
      They need to go next.
      
      SO ………….
      get annoyed by what really matters ….
      people trying to destroy TorrentFreak with counterfeit store links onsite.
    - http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA
      
      @Anonymous
      
      STOP iT…. I WILL DO EVERYTHING YO SAY….. you win….
      ALL MY BASE BELONGS TO YOU…..
      
      YOUR.. abusive comments and aggressive style of slander are beating me..
      I will change the way I type….. for you.. and a few others…..
      
      or……
      
      NO…. I won’t …
      
      YOUR JUST PIiSSED …YOU GOT RiCKROLLED
    - Guest
      
      Chill anoix they are fuckin wit ya
    - Resin
      
      Ok, this fight is getting silly.
      
      Anonymous, it’s not harming you, and he’s not lying or spreading false information or doing anything else that harms the forum. He didn’t give you a virus or cause you any harm, and his prank only caused some temporary annoyance. Even if he rickrolled you and made you close your browser, you weren’t harmed in any way beyond a small inconvenience. You don’t have to like him, but starting a fight isn’t going to help.
      
      Anoixiona, you’re choosing to go against the established rules of communication, not because you’re incapable of communicating normally, as someone with a lisp or severe accent (like the very strong southern accent I have, but you’d never know that because I don’t feel a need to express it over the internet) would be, but because you don’t want to obey the norm. That’s fine, but you have to accept that it’s going to bother some normal and rational people because they won’t see a reason for you doing it other than attention-seeking. I’m not saying that’s your reason, I’m saying that’s the way it can seem. If you do have a different reason, be courteous and explain it. Also, you don’t need to include a link that purposefully inconveniences other people. If you don’t want people looking at personal data, just don’t post it. You don’t have to try to mess with them.
      
      Has everyone been scolded enough? Can we stop now?
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http://www.facebook.com/people/Pac-Ducor/100000183951976 Pac Ducor

You are wrong and miss guided in most every aspect in your view towards this just like the anti piracy groups…

Justin Beeber is lame and an insult to pirating.

All grants must be paid at the end of your school year.
Not everyone has the money for outdated text books.

Outdated textbooks can be corrected and maintained up-to-date if made into a downloadable/printable page like a wiki page.

The world is already filled with morons and complete idiots… Just look at most of the countries leaders in the world. Exp American.

The people who write books are doing something important but are still stuck in the past were as the rest of the world has moved on to the 21 century..
Ither work with technology or be destroyed by it.

PS…
Your god won’t help you or any one else… Start believing in yourself and not some imaginary made-up deity.
- Ogra
  
  “Outdated textbooks can be corrected and maintained up-to-date if made into a downloadable/printable page like a wiki page.”
  
  By who? This isn’t just some small job. The textbooks usually have to be verified by up to 8 people, and if they’re science textbooks, they need to have stringent citations for everything. Textbook writers and scientists aren’t going to do that work for free. That raises the question of who will pay for the work. The universities? If so, then students will still be charged, and the schools will have to spend a lot more money investing into heavy computer infrastructure. The textbook solution isn’t a good one, but this isn’t some simple and easy fix.
  
  “Your god won’t help you or any one else… Start believing in yourself and not some imaginary made-up deity. ”
  
  First, you do realize he talked about “fundamentalist christians” as a warning and not a hopeful solution, right? Second, as an atheist speaking to another atheist., please don’t say “Start believing in yourself” in the same line that you say to stop believing in god. That’s one of those lines that makes theists think that we’re “replacing the worship of god with the worship of ourselves”. It’s the sort of misconception that leads to lasting problems for anyone trying to understand us.
  - Rekrul
    
    By who? This isn’t just some small job. The textbooks usually have to be verified by up to 8 people, and if they’re science textbooks, they need to have stringent citations for everything. Textbook writers and scientists aren’t going to do that work for free. That raises the question of who will pay for the work. The universities? If so, then students will still be charged, and the schools will have to spend a lot more money investing into heavy computer infrastructure. The textbook solution isn’t a good one, but this isn’t some simple and easy fix.
    
    Everything else being equal, which is cheaper for the publishing company to update, a printed book or a digital copy?
    
    A printed book needs to re-published as a new edition, that means printing, binding, distribution, etc. On the other hand, a digital copy can be easily updated and distributed electronically at very little cost.
    
    Of course the simple truth is that publishing companies have gotten used to the idea of making students pay a small fortune for textbooks, most of which will be outdated by the next term, so that they can’t just re-sell them to other students.
    - Ogra
      
      I agree there. It is cheaper to do everything digitally, but a problem with college textbooks is that colleges need everyone to have access to the books, and a reality on college campuses (and high schools too) is that not everyone has a computer, and as anyone who has been on a campus knows, the limited amount of school computers get used up very fast when they
      
      Also, updating an electronic textbook still takes a good amount of time and hard work (especially since a common standard for textbooks is full review of all information once every certain period of years. 5 at my school). You still need people to do the editing, the research, more people to do the peer review. It’s not a free process. It’s still cheaper, but it’s not a complete elimination of cost.
      
      The point I’m trying to make isn’t that the current model is the best one, just that this isn’t one of those problems that has a hardship-free solution.
    - Darren
      
      The problem is that we see new editions of important text books prescribed by university professors, being printed each year, giving us the illusion that a dedicated team of authors and publishers are working round the year to improve these books and update them will new information but the reality is far from it. Most of these books are branded as new edition after changing the outer cover and merely adding a few extra question at the end of exercises.
      
      Locally published books by college professors which never underwent any proof reading to begin with, still have the same mistakes in their 10th edition as in their 1st edition. Worst of all, with every new edition, the price is bumped up for no reason at all.
      
      Besides all that, there is really no way to justify the ridiculous price of vital text books except to believe that publishers and middle men are all enjoying the benefits of this monopoly.
      
      Again, information should be free. Should we deny education to students who can’t afford to pay for essential textbooks? Its not book sales have dried up and publishers and authors are dying of hunger that sites like the Student Bay need to be shutdown. They are more worried about lost sales which don’t even exist.
    - Ogra
      
      First, I will say that this is an area where concerns about lost sales are actually justified, even if the actions taken aren’t. This isn’t like entertainment, where money not spent in one area will be spent in another. A student who doesn’t buy a textbook isn’t going to spend that money on a different textbook. That doesn’t meant that Studentbay shouldn’t be allowed to sell the books, but this is probably an area where we can say that “lost sales” does apply.
      
      If student’s can’t pay for textbooks, the universities offer financial aid. Admissions are expected to be need-blind (at least, in the state I live), so schools are expected to give financial aid to any student who qualifies, and that aid covers books.
      
      Finally, while a lot of books do have the problems of non-imporval across editions, many (particularly in the sciences) actually do need to change as new studies are published. It’s a question of the books needing to be changed because they give false.
      
      Information should only be free if someone is willing to offer it for free.
- None
  
  You seem to be confused about the difference between grants and loans. You don’t need to pay grants back.
https://twitter.com/1proof Andrew

Just use eMule / aMule
Invalid

I don’t mind paying for my study books.

If the book was completely unreasonably priced, I would copy it old school style, the pages I needed. But usually, I prefer supporting the authors who I usually have great respect for, and I like to have the real book when sitting in class as well…
WmDan

I studied for 8 years and now I am a middle-aged office worker, bored shitless.

But he site below made things somewhat more fun

http://www.UnambitiousUs.com – The Online Magazine for Time Wasters

Movies, Games and Fantasy Football!
No ads, no bs.
- Guest
  
  Education should be free!!!
  
  FLAGGED
David

it’s always the same shit,, even the teachers agree that the “new” books contain “almost” the same information that the previous does,, but it’s “just” a requirement that you must buy the latest book.

Why the hell does the poor students (parents) have to buy the latest book just to be able to take the course,, and fund the publisher,,
- Darren
  
  One shouldn’t have to buy the latest books. I always buy last year’s edition at 20% discount but some publishers won’t even reduce prices for old editions.
Anom

Its same in Finland too you have buy your own school books except if you still on high school or lower(then get them free from school but its loan for that year and you have to return them after school year is gone (summer vacations starts))… but if you go higher education than that then you have to buy your own books…. lucky for some ppl that you can usually get them cheaper as used than brand new…

i just think that maybe publishers and teachers have some sort agreement between them that makes teacher to require “you must have this new book, old book is not accepted” then only change in that new book version for that year is maybe one or two pages have changed in place some or some calculations were added or were corrected or other minor changes…
- Anom
  
  have to add this: in university in finland you can loan books for free (provited that you remember to return or re-loan in time), So basically education is free in finland, if you get your books from library. Homever there is exception in this for foreign student this changed couple years ago, they need to pay some money each year.
http://profiles.google.com/orfetheo Orfeas Theofanis

What if Robin Hood was in 2011?
KILL HIIIM!!
Anonymous

Ogra and Ms. Blindy, above all I want to credit your coherent and responsible discussion as a welcome contribution to my own thinking on this issue.

By way of constructive suggestion, i would like to offer that perhaps the conceptual distance that separates your two perspectives is the actual distance between the current copyright regime as it exists today and the multiple alternatives by which we might hope to improve the social management of intellectual property in the future.

It is much easier for us to agree on all that we reject about the current copyright law, than it is for us to agree on the prefferred relationship to intellectual property that we wish to replace it.

Somewhere between having no copyright restrictions whatsoever (maximum public domain), and what is, in effect, a perpetual term of copyright (no public domain), arcs the spectrum of contention which we must resolve if we are to effectively oppose the entrenched economic and political power of the corporate copyright establishment.

The “I hate copyright” epiphany of a cable customer who is charged a King’s ransom for three movie channels only to discover that the three channels share the same library of old movies and that any movie therein worth seeing when he wants to see it has an “additional charge” button, is a first and necessary step in a desperately necessary self liberation. The “Next Level”, however, is a completely different thicket of contention and responsibility; so very necessary, and so very difficult.. Thanks to you both.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Muhammad-Omer/100000571636230 Muhammad Omer

hi very nice
Regards,
MUHAMMAD OMER-24389
Timetowaste

Read it, don’t flag me:

http://www.UnambitiousUs.com – The Online Magazine for Time Wasters

Movies, Games and Fantasy Football.

No ads, no bs.
- LessTimeToWaste
  
  Fah fah fah fah fla-ged. (the show with zefrank)
  
  If you think people are going to flag you for posting something, your shouldn’t be posting it where you can get flagged. Go hit up an abandoned wiki or forum and spam there.
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Anonymous

linkhide.com.ar/47632
Anonymous

phlpn.es/829r8s
Vomitus

Pretty retarded to charge for this service, are there any other free text book sites?

I wouldn’t mind curiously reading through a few books.
Anonymous

linkhide.com.ar/47632
Anonymous

linkhide.com.ar/47632
Anonymous

phlpn.es/829r8s
Ace22

if we could get the books at library whats wrong with getting them on the internet?
- Ogra
  
  I’ll play the devil’s advocate to your question, and speak for the copyright industry.
  
  The important factor behind copyright is that is only gives the industries permission to determine who can and can not make new copies. Essentially, the only person who is allowed to make new copies should be the artist, and those he licenses to do the same. The reason libraries are considered acceptable is because they never produce copies. They can only give away as many copies as they buy. You can even see this when libraries have online catalogs. They still don’t give away more copies than they have bought, even though they have the means too. In filesharing, new copies are produced. If I get a torrent of Skyrim online, that doesn’t mean someone else is giving me their copy of Skyrim. There are more copies in the world, not produced with the consent of the Intellectual Property owner. That would be the argument for the difference.
http://it-degree-online.com/ IT Degree Online

It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out and what business / social sharing models arise.
Anonymous

linkhide.com.ar/47632
Pingback: Student Bay Admin Prosecuted in Sweden | TorrentForce Blog
Anonymous

linkhide.com.ar/47632
Anonymous

phlpn.es/829r8s
Anonymous

linkhide.com.ar/47632
Anonymous

http://liil.cc/ckp
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