Why Pirates Buy More Music and Music Labels Fail
Written by Ernesto on April 28, 2009A handful of studies have shown that those who download music illegally actually buy more through legal channels. But why? Are pirates really this generous or could it be that this is just a side-effect of the failing music industry?
In the past we’ve documented studies that showed how the majority of artists sell more music thanks to piracy and that those who download (more) also buy more. Last week another study was added to this ever growing list, arguing that pirates are 10 times more likely to buy music than those who don’t.
So why do pirates buy more music? The simplest explanation for this finding might be that people who are not interested in music don’t have the need to pirate or buy it. I have to agree that it’s not the the sexiest, most controversial or inspiring answer, but it does tell us something about the core of the piracy ‘problem’.
The real reason is in fact very simple. The true music enthusiasts simply want to consume, sample and discover as much new music as they possibly can, and the most straightforward and convenient way to do this is through file-sharing networks. Music pirates are just regular consumers really, and they love music just as much as anyone else.
Music fans share more.
Although I personally believe that the ability to sample music through file-sharing has a positive effect on music sales, much of the correlation between piracy and sales is simply caused by a third factor – a passion for music. This is one of the main reasons why most users of music oriented BitTorrent sites love an initiative such as Spotify where they have access to one of the largest music libraries online.
Although piracy can breed consumers, it’s generally happens the other way around. The Internet has freed music and the music labels’ greed and abuse of copyright is the only barrier that stands between the artists and millions of potential fans. Creative business models where consumers have instant access to unprotected and high quality music are the future.
The labels of course fail to see this all too obvious connection and continue to exploit their acquired (copy)rights.They would rather pump yet more millions into overpaid pro-copyright lobbyists and expensive lawyers trying to keep their outdated business model alive – the model where the artist gets 1 to 10% of the total music sales while the labels are filling their pockets. No wonder the passionate music fans flee to BitTorrent.
What we can learn from the studies is that true music fans buy and pirate more music. The labels are fighting against those who generate a large chunk – perhaps even the largest – of their yearly revenue. The labels should understand that piracy is merely a signal that they are on the wrong track.
The Internet makes it possible to offer unlimited access to music cheaply with virtually no production and distribution costs. Unlimited access is exactly what most consumers want. It’s an opportunity not a threat.
Previously: Wyzo 3, The BitTorrent Web Browser
Next: Swedish MP Wants His ISP To Delete Personal Data
108 Responses
and its still illegal and you will get caught…
the music industry is dead
music lives
http://www.h33t.com where filesharing is liberating artists
I will say that i dont buy more music…unless I really like the artists… and im not just downloading to stay in the loop.
like for example…im Black so I have to stay relevant to other Black ppl in my area.. cuz Im already slippin because I am a nerd and I listen to diff rock and am very abnormal. I’ve had a ton of Black and White ppl say im the least Black person they know…but besides the fact..
one popular album that just came out was The Dream “Love Vs. Money” i downloaded it but i didnt later go out and by it because its not music in my taste tha i really like and felt the artist worked hard on….
However…Flobots “Fight With Tools” I downloaded before I even had the CD multiple times… at different places for different devices…but I really did like the group and their message so I went out and bought the CD..
So, I dont know if we wholly buy more CDs or if we downloaded equally as much as we buy…I think its fair to say a number of downloading users have a higher proclivity to purchase CDs ….in fact tell you the truth i have more bootleggs from the middle east and thailand because they are cheaper to buy than the real things (cuz I havent been back home in America for over a year).
Generally speaking if the record companies would stop being greedy and charge reasonable prices… i would buy more than i would ever download because shit… hard drive space is limited..
Sorry for this overly long post… lol
H33T is the stuff for music and other torrents, I don’t think the admin put the comment there, he is a gansit spamming, probably one of those firestarters.
Their saying is after all; if you like what you downloaded, buy it!
no jimmy most people wont get caught lolzor
I fully support this article.
I do support too that firstly I would like to pay to artists directly and no way I will be ever using outdated distribution model… Make us distributors trough adoption of torrents IP creators.
There have always been ‘collectors’ who would spend huge sums of money buying recorded music.
Since being introduced to Bittorrent, they likely buy slightly less and download much more.
There have always been ‘collectors’ who would spend huge sums of money buying recorded music.
Since being introduced to Bittorrent, they likely buy slightly less and download much more.
it seems all of us claim we are just fighting a ‘old school distribution method’ or only downloading to fight the mpaa/riaa, but honestly, i download just becase i like getting stuff free, and i find it hard to honestly believe a person would download a torrent for the sole reason of avoiding a distribution method. I do see how downloading can offer better versions of a product, (no DRM etc…) but really, dont pretend you are taking a stand against an industry when you just want something for free.
Despite studies showing that extending copyright will only benefit the labels and a few artists who are already at the “top” AND cost the citizens of the EU millions PLUS lock away culture for more generations, the move to extend copyright on sound works for +20 years has been approved…. and there is no reason why it wont be extended again before those 20 years are up.
Coincidence that the Beatles and other class Rock acts of the 60s were just about to come into the public domain?
While I largely agree with this article, i for one dont want the labels to listen, i dont care what they do… i’m just waiting for them to die, no other ending is acceptable.
I download anything and everything i want, but i never buy unless the artist is listed on riaa-free or is from a small indie (i do take the time to google before putting my money down) and thats the only way to get these scum out of our systems.
Take all they have to offer but make sure they dont get a dime from you (its actually a simple reversal of what they were doing to us), lets see how valuable their bought laws and ‘copyrights’ are then.
Trying to work with them or make them change their evil ways are useless, picketing or taking legal alternatives are useless as well because they have pockets so deep all of us put together wouldnt be able to match them half way… the courts are a joke (pirate bay trial anyone?) even in far off countries…in the US, forget it, thats home territory.
Hit them hard and dont stop even when they are down, hit them a few extra times when they are dead… just to be sure.
/CJ
eZee.se
@10 (hiphop), you are right in one way. We are NOT downloading JUST to fight the MPAA/RIAA. We download torrents to show our love for the content that we are downloading, as fans. It doesn’t always matter that it’s free. Usually it’s because we’d like to try something to know if it’s any good or not by actually experiencing it. If it is good, it’s a good idea to try to support the Artist themselves in the most direct method possible, so they don’t get fucked over and ripped off by greedy record labels who leave the actual producers of the content with less than 25% of the profit.
Well I haven’t bought much music. I have only bought one CD since I started downloading albums off of Rapidshare.
For one thing, it seems that it would take quite a bit of money to buy all that I have downloaded. I think I tried to find out how much it would cost to buy one of the discographies I have pirated and it came out to something like $200. O.O Right now I don’t have the money for that.
But even if I did have the money I probably wouldn’t buy many CDs still, because I don’t care about getting lossless quality, I don’t worry about whether some albums were originally at a lower bitrate, and there is always something else I want. Since I get the music free, I want to spend my money on the other thing that I can’t download.
just like the good members at http://rockbox.psychocydd.co.uk who buy their stuff when they find what they like…
Rock ON brothers… \m/
Some people buy more. Some people buy less.
We don’t buy as much as we download that’s true, but we try out so much more music that even if we bought a small fraction we would still buy more than the average person. Listening to more music makes you more interested in music.
Now the thing that the major labels are scared of is the control that they are loosing. People who pirate a ton of music generally listen to non commercialized music (i think). There are so many different genres and sub genres of music out there. Many are not controlled by major labels because it is more niche.
When you have a more intimate connection with the music you listen to you are more willing to pay for it. I think the future of music is a lot of small record companies or even artists themselves and people listening to a wider variety of music.
Anything that spurs individuality is a great thing. Especially in this clone like consumerist country. (USA)
I’ve downloaded probably around 50 albums in the last 30 days or so, all current releases. Many of them are artists not on labels, but many are. Out of the 50 or so I downloaded, I purchased 3 at a store and could not even find one at ANY store, discovering later that the best way to buy would be directly through the artist. So eventually that will be 4.
Now.. in the past I would have purchased about the same number of CDs, but instead of downloading a bunch of albums blindly.. I would have listened to local independent radio. The bad thing now is that the local alternative station has turned into a “90s” station, blaring Rage, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and all the other things they’ve been playing for about 10 years going now. Blah.(and from what I hear this is COMMON now) They add about one new song a week (that’s usually some clone of some crappy nearly numetal tard band or The Used re-hash)and yet still call themselves the “alternative”. The independent/non-profit/public stations have switched over the years from playing more current music most of the time to playing what I could only describe as roots/country/bluegrass/blues/hippie. Which is fine, but they are FAR from the diversity they claim.
The Internet is my “left of the dial” station now. And I sample/buy in the same ratio I always have. I’m not saying everyone does this, but based on past trends I think I can safely say I’m not alone in this.
I don’t believe the whole 10 times more likely bit. I download music to find new music, replace CD’s I’ve bought literally 4 times!!, and simply casue I dont have the money to buy what I download. I agree with post #13. I wouldn’t buy 95% of what I download. The other 5% I would. I just discovered King of Leon 4 days ago wich would have never happened walking into a music store. Thats one band I would love to support. I want my money to speak. When we pay for cd’s it’s a record label that will keep pumping out more beyonce or brittany spears crap. It gets old. Theres maybe 50 mainstream bands. Maybe 10 new bands a year appear (big timeones). I know theres plenty of decent bands who get the shaft or pay up the wazoo cause they have no rep. Record labels are controlling the way music evolves and people want to say whats good, whats not.
just an idea, might be nice if uploaders took 5 mins and maybe posted a link to amazon or band’s website to buy the music and paste it in the description?
@19 yeh hiphop, or the music companys could upload their own album ad paste a buy link in the description, its going to get pirated anyways, why not just put a link in to buy, itll probably get a few hits.
19, 20 – LOL Yeah right.
Thing is, for the music itself you can find a lot of good stuff on Jamendo if you’re into mainstream genres.
However, I generally only listen to obscureish types of electronic music (Gabber/Hardcore, UK Hardcore, Dubstep etc.) and most of the labels for the songs I download aren’t RIAA member labels. I wish I had the money to buy them, I really really do, but I can’t afford to (16 years old without a job, meh).
Also, filesharing is great for weeding out useless tracks. I think i keep less than 25% of all the songs I download. Maybe even less :<
Rainydays,
you just discovered kings of leon?
….
facepalm.jpg
The major labels let greed get the best of them. Dealing with any part of the music industry that the majors are involved in is like going to a vampire party and you’re the meal ticket.
Back in the day, you heard new music all the time. There were underground stations, DJ’s picked locals to play sometimes, but the key here was that there was always new stuff coming out and being played on the air.
None of that happens today. Payolla is alive and well in the form of paid ads that have the artists they want exposed rather than what might be aspiring musicians. You hear the same 20 or so tunes, every hour on the hour. The rotation rate is something like two maybe three songs a month removed and that many added to be cycled through.
If you want to hear new music you have to go to the file sharing sites. Also known is that the major labels will sometimes seed their “wannbe” artists to see what sort of interest there might be in that sort of music, without having to invest in PR. It’s like a free study for them.
The filling of albums with filler has eventually turned the market around to where it is back to where it was in the 50’s. The market is now only interested in the single tune, not the crap. They’re still selling music and selling lots of tunes, despite the public pap being put out but it’s now the single tune and not the album that gave forth so much profit.
I’ve no sympathy for them. I’m on boycott. I don’t buy nor download music anymore. Crap I’ve had plenty of time to buy what I wanted and they aren’t making any more new Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, nor other dead artist tunes. They’ve repackaged them for ever but I don’t need repackages. When they get their act together, act right to the customer, and actually start getting back into music and what’s best for the customer, then I will consider buying again.
I don’t expect it to happen till they are bankrupt with no other way to turn. That’s ok, music was being made long before the major labels came on the scene.
There was a great indie sampler out there every month called the “Indie Rock Playlist” by a guy called criznittle. His was the best and he did it for a while. But now he’s in jail and “can’t use a computer”. And even though his girlfriend and others say it was unrelated to the playlist, it’s hard to imagine what else it could be that would bar him from using a laptop. So far, I have found no better playlist. Plenty have tried, but no cigar. I just always figured he had started getting too much attention and he included one too many major-label distributed artists one month.
@ 23 – Yeah I just discovered King of Leon 4 days ago. Never heard there name before. I downed there discografy to hear their older tunes. Haven’t listened to it yet.
I’m into classic rock, some rap, and techno. I love techno. There aren’t any stations locally that play it. So only way to discover is P2P. Hate online play list stations cause if the site goes, so does your music.
If anyone has good torrent lists can ya post? I’m downing Trance Above and beyond, Paul Van Dyk-Vonyc Sessions, Markus Schulz-A State Of Trance, Pete Tong-The Essential Selection, Markus Schulz-Global DJ Broadcast, just to name a few. Looking for more to discover new songs havent heard of. Into Ambience type mixes
Tell me for shure that the money i pay for music goes FIRST to the artists and AFTER to theyr leechers and im gonna start buying tons of music right from the record stores with no problem at all.
Basically it boils down to this:
Media labels have started a copyright crusade based on the idea that if piracy suddenly stopped, everyone pirating would suddenly start buying.
The problem is that’s not how things work. Even if they and the RIAA got everything that they wanted, pirates still would not buy.
I am a cd Maniac!!! I have 79 in my collection!!!!
the fact is that if i didnt download Cynic, i would never know this great band. And they would never release their 93 album in brazil either, because it would not sell. So what the labels expect, that we dont listen the music we like??? that obtaining the material that they dont want to release is wrong??? fuck them!!!!
and movies??? anybody here know a director called Fritz Lang??? His work is amazing, but most of his movies, like the ones from the 20’s are not for rent nor selling. So what the movie companies expect, that we dont watch the movies that we like??? that obtaining the material that they dont want to release is wrong??? fuck them again and again!!!
and sorry about the bad english
If I was in a band, I’d release:
(All DRM Free)
1: Mp3s in good quality format free.
2: Lossless file format for, say $0.50 a track.
3: DVDs of live footage/filmclips with lots of extras / behind the scenes etc.
Bands don’t make that much money from CD sales anyhow,and with torrents etc, I say get popular and make the sales off the DVDs (which still sell, and very well at that).
PS. (30 here).
$0.50 is AUS.
@hiphop
It would be nice idea to have donate button on torrent sites. Donate button which would donate artist not fucking label.
‘fcourse label wouldn’t like it so I bet they would politely ask artist to hand over this money(like gimme those bucks or gtfo out of my label)
This could also happen to be revolutionary because I belive some artist would get bigger money this way so there would be no way to keep them self screwed by labels.
I’m fully prepared to send bands $5 or $10 for each album I download – it’s more than they’d get from me buying their album anyway
Are you sure that the pirates were pirates first. Perhaps it is not the pirates that are buying more music, but the people buying music and also becoming pirates?
Instead of a title of “Why Pirates Buy More Music and Music Labels Fail” the title could be “Why people who buy music turn to piracy”, “CDs are dead, long live the internet”, “Internet killed the CD star”, “Finding CD in store and loading it to iPod = 1 hour, Bittorrent=10 minutes” or even “iTunes – The most successful music label of all time”.
Always download stuff (legal or illegal). Its environment friendly :)
The only way to legally fight the RIAA and MPAA is by BOYCOTTING them, I do my research online before buying a CD, my hard earned cash goes to independant artists only, The horrible greedy old music labels can’t stop me from doing that.
33#:
You have a decent point. I’m not sure I’d take this “documented studies” to serious either. It’s not that pirates are dishonest, but…
The evolution of the artists meal ticket
1). Perform locally, send hat around which artist holds directly.
2). Perform in theatre/gigs, collect payment at door which manager holds for artist, manager rips artist off.
3). Cut a Album with a Record Label, wait for the millions to pour in, but wait, Record Label keeps most of proceeds due to “overheads”.
4). Consumer can now preview artists work online, consumer stops buying CD’s with only one or two good songs, Record Label scam exposed, sales of CD’s decline, artist goes back to performing locally and does Gigs to earn some cash.
The circle of greed complete..
“and its still illegal and you will get caught…”
Why do you hate democracy? ;)
The EU Governments have extended “Artists Music Rights” for another 20 years, this I suppose is to extend and maintian royalty payments to the “Record Labels” which are then supposed to pay “TAXES”, it’s just a shame that most of these Record Labels don’t pay taxes because they’re
a). Offshore, don’t pay taxes to anyone.
b). Declare most income as expneses, hence no tax liablilties.
c). Artists “Technically” claim primary place of residence in a Tax free or Tax friendly country.
End result is that extending royalties on artists was supposed to bring in further income for the respective government, this has ROYALLY backfired, as we all know LAWYERS AND BANKERS own politicians and are far smarter than their respective EU ministerial “Puppets”.
Moral of the story, know your tax laws so you can legally evade them just like the wealthy record labels and artists do.
Most countries have a reduced rate of taxes if you are away from your tax base country for more than 180 days, hence the reason that most wealthy artists are away from their “base countries” so often, this means that they fall into a nominal reduced tax bracket, the basic philosophy of the greedy Label and Artist is, rake in the easy money, rip joe soap off, FORCE the consumer to buy a overpriced CD which only has a few good tracks, fvck him…
“Times they are a changing”
Where is REASONED MIND???
Oh, I know quite well where. Anywhere else but here.
As far away from independant evidence as he can get so that he can continue his little industry-induced fantasy.
I support this article.
Thanks to filesharing, i have discovered many of my favorite bands and i have also had a chance to listen to the older music that was recorded in the 60’s and 70’s which is hard to find in stores today.
If i like the album i heard, i will buy it. I have all the albums and DVD’s for “Led Zeppelin” and i have tons of movies (recently ordered The Godfather trilogy from amazon)
It’s also great because I’m just a poor college student and i simply can’t afford buying random new albums then to find out that it sucks balls.
Thank you internet =)
Before the internet came along one had to go to a music store to buy music, there one would walk down endless aisles browsing all and sundry, randomly pick up a Jewel Case with nice album art and think, “hmm perhaps I’ll like this one”, dutifully pay. Push play on the CD at home and it err, sucks, search for a good song, ah yes there it is number four, program the CD player to play track four of that CD… fast forward to the internet… browse online and search for artist information, listen to samples of it’s music, nah don’t like, ditch it..next…nah don’t like it, delete, wonderful thing that delete button, (which the labels and artists don’t own).
Hooray for the internet that allows to me “Try Before I Buy” and spend my hard earned cash on music I like and have auditioned. Up yours RIAA and MPAA.
It sounds like a really good fart if you say this really loud whilst sitting on your couch and lifting one bum cheek off the chair,
Lift one bum cheek
hold that pose
now say loudly emphasising the “RRRR”’s
phonetically like this
“RRRRRIAAAMPAAAAA”
Now how do I generate enough gas to actually reproduce my newfound appreciation of those greedy bastards
Here’s my list of what i spent [esfiated] @ mediarelated stuff.
Vinyl (Singles 7 inch) : 300 * 3 Euro = 900 Euro :
Vinyl (Albums and 12 inch) : 5.000 * Euro 10 = 50.000 Euro
Tapes : 2.000 * Euro 3 = 6.000 Euro
CD’s : 1.500 * Euro 15 = 22.500 Euro
CD’rs :500 * Euro 1 = 1.000 Euro
Concerts / festivals / DJ gigs (including mercandise and boooz) : 30 years * 1.200 Euro = 36.000 Euro
VHS : 300 * Euro 8 = 2.400 Euro
DVD : 100 * Euro 10 = 1.000 Euro
Cinema : 30 years * Euro 200 = 6.000 Euro
Thats about 125.000 Euro / 165.000 dollar and im sure my list isnt complete and that im a little spender.
Piratechasers are really pretty dumb.
esfiated should be estimated
@41 here I am
And this study has opened my eyes to the industry madness and I now firmly support open sharing in any format as that is obviously the best way to benefit all
The amount of people who say they try before they buy is vastly different than people who actually buy. It’s a convenient lie we all tell to make piracy seem ok.
Perhaps people don’t buy because most people don’t like what they hear, hence don’t buy the article. Prior to the internet the only way to thoroughly try the product was to BUY it, take it home, then realise that you’d bought something you didn’t like, and vow never to do that again.
“Try before you buy” is the way to go, that way nobody is FORCED to buy audio art BLIND.
LOL, Pirates are cool dude! anonymity.ru.tc
Meet a tall and Hot woman on – Seekingtall.com. I’m sure your lover is there.
Its Simple,
Albums are filled with krappy songs…. Why would ANYONE buy a krappy album for 1 song.
Oh wait we do that ever time we go to the store to buy an album.
Online, you get to see what the krappie songs are first.. And then decide if its worth while.
Note to artist.. stop making krappie songs
While I may not “Buy” more music
I do go to more shows , concerts, and festivals that have the bands that I Dl and i always buy a shirt or sticker
Bands I dl and seen:
The used (SXSW $175)
Starylight run
I am ghost
A SKylit Drive (will see at Vans $45)
Ludo
Coheed and Cambria (will see again at ACL a $130 festival)
Estrum
Rise Againsts (will see at Stubbs this summer $35)
Third Eye Blind (saw at SXSW)
So tell me I’m a pirate if i would not have Dl these bands I would not be a fan and would not go to their shows
The best music isn’t on the internet.
One of the main problems with the music industry today is diversity. If you don’t follow mainstream music then how are you ever going to discover new music without random hit and miss? That 15 second sample on itunes is not enough to figure if you like a song/artist or not. Sometimes you have to hear the entire Album a couple of times before you start to like it. This can never happen with samples.
There is no real, try before you buy. This is what was awesome waay back in the LP age, you could go and listen to albums at the record store. Please don’t say, go to FYE and listen to the headphones there. They usually don’t work, or have a bad selection, and quite often the CDs I buy aren’t released in the US. Thank you for the advent of Amazon.
I use to download a buttload of mp3s back in my teenager’s years. But I used them to find some new band, some new style since the radio keep rollin the same track everyday. I kept in mind that « If I like, I buy ». And now i’m nearly 1 000 cds. I’m not sure that a lot of households can say they’ve got more than 1 000 cds.
I LOVE music. A I definitely buy records that mean a lot to me. For instance, Jimi Hendrix and John Mayer. I’d collect all their records because I support the artist and am not just too cheap to buy music.
Other songs which are good, but I really don’t feel are excellent or mean something to me, I download.
The industries crusade isnt about buying music. Hell it isn’t even about current profits, and it never has been. It’s about pushing through media rights laws that companies such as Disney have been trying to get for ages, and failing to achieve, before 2001. THey tried with Radio, failed, recieving only concessions. They tried in Canada and failed, getting the copyright levy. They tried in 2001 after releasing 30% fewer albums and watching music sales fall 30 some odd percent (by the way, this was a profitable period for Canadian musicians who actually released 20% more albums and saw similar rises in revenue) and got the DMCA through.
Now they’ve angered their core audience, made a massive amount of people search out independent labels and sources, and even angered their key online retailer (iTunes), and are claiming that their laws are still not good enough, achieving even further extensions to copy right (which has what to do with piracy?) and soon likely even more.
To quote RiP: Culture Always Builds on the Past and The Past Always Tries to Control the Future.
“And this study has opened my eyes to the industry madness and I now firmly support open sharing in any format as that is obviously the best way to benefit all.”
Haha, humour, I get it. Deflection. Dodge that bullet. You’re like an agent in the Matrix. Except you chose that blue pill long, long ago.
as a pretty big music enthusiast, i have to admit that spending all kinds of money on music that turns out to be crap can be very pricey. i have no problems with shelling out money for what i know will be worth the cost. and if i can sample something for free before i buy it, than why not? maybe that will actually make artists work harder and produce better music. if their stuff sucks, why would anyone want to pay for it anyway, only to be disappointed when they hear the album?
I dont normally buy music because it’s not available to me. I stick to underground rap and metal. I have bought CD’s form some artists though.
Heres a thought, maybe if some of these producers will listen to some of the crap they are trying to sell at stores for over 20 dollars they would see why no one buys their albums anymore! I mean seriously, what happened to songs these days.. the quality has gone to crap and like all other markets they should see loss in sales for loss in quality.
I run a music sharing blog. I recently held a poll on it asking whether or not my visitors still purchase music. I was quite surprised by the turn out.
385 voted that they do
while only 29 said no.
Obviously downloading music isn’t as much of a harm as people would like to think.
do you think “music fanatics” are actually paying most of their attention to major labels? why do major labels still set the standards for how people think about this issue? lesser known groups and labels are everywhere. they get screwed over much, much worse because they don’t even have the financial backing to outlast poor record sales. game over. this is depressing.
“the model where the artist gets 1 to 10% of the total music sales while the labels are filling their pockets.”
This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard for piracy. Most people pirating music don’t care if it came from a major label or an independent one. They also don’t have a copy of the record contract in front of them to know how much the artist is actually getting paid.
Most people that pirate music will not buy it. Why would someone spend their hard-earned money on something that they aready got for free?
In the end, it will only destroy the small artists you claim to be helping. Why? Because bigger artists have other things to fall back on (concerts, shirts, etc.). The lesser-known artists only have their music (most small gigs pay peanuts..and when when you have to split it among 5 guys..it’s nothing).
If the pirate community really wants to start a movement, figure out how artists can still make money without the huge industry.
It’s kind of funny how you say you don’t need the big music companies..yet..that’s the music that’s pirated the most. You should learn not to bite the hand that feeds you.
I wouldn’t blindly believe in the stats of any “media” article on the internet or otherwise. However we need only look at Radiohead’s “In Rainbows” album to see Mr.Ernesto’s point. Raidohead offered their newest album online for a price that was your option. The minimum bid was one dollar and you could pay whatever you wanted above that. Included was the option to pay once you had heard the album. Normally I would have told you this idea would never work but the numbers don’t lie. Raidohead’s album was the UK’s top grossing album for the six months after it’s release. Of course it’s very North American to believe the “old record company model” has any merit at all. As a heavy metal fan who has friends and family across the world I can tell you FOR A FACT that file sharing or “pirating” exposes many kids to North American music that they would other wise have no way to access (buying or otherwise due to their governments policies). Do we really want to breakdown the walls of censorship and oppresion world wide? The “internet pirates” are doing more for international relations than any politician or soldier ever has. Just look at the heavy meatal movements across the Arab and Asian cultures. Iron Maiden recently played a concert in Goa and the band was amazed how the crowd knew every lyric to their songs even though they had no recorded sales anywhere in India. Imagine other musical genre’s that have spread worldwide thanks to file sharing (country, classical, etc). Furthermore every band since the dawn of popular music knows that the way to make money is to create a great live show and sell that. Don’t beleive me? Just see U2 or the Rolling Stones’s last tour revenues! Seriously Jimmy, I hope you were being sarcastic, otherwise don’t be a blind, gutless follower.
radiohead, u2, iron maiden, the rolling stones… they can ALL afford to do whatever the fuck they want. we should be talking about new startups who make music. stop referencing “old-business artists” the same way we should stop referencing the old business models themselves. these groups made a killing the old way before they ever had to face a new direction in releasing music. they will be fine no matter what. if “exposure” (which is supposed to be a good thing) in piracy threatens the prosperity of making new music, what happens to it?
its because you have to support whats worth supporting and they just dll what they want but isn’t worth buying an album
Well that’s the thing… people who love music want to find new music to fall in love with!
Does the radio offer this? No! The radio almost doesn’t play anything that anyone wants to listen to anymore… So people are turning to their friends and the web for new music.
Plus, why would I ever buy a CD with only 1 good song on it? PirateBay / Limewire and such give me the opportunity to hear which songs I like before wasting $15. If I can get the same 3 songs I like from the CD for $3 rather than spend $15, then it’s an easy choice for me.
That’s why I’m selling custom CDs to my fans… they can choose any 15 songs of mine for $15. I autograph it and send along a hand-written thank-you letter.
The best part, is you can already know which songs to put on your CD because I offer all my songs in MP3 format for free on my website… over 40 songs for free.
Just my two cents… and now a shameless self-promotion for contributing in a positive way :-)
http://www.hirstmusic.com/
free or a sort of “paid for unlimited access” to music, that lets you try and DISCOVER new kinds of music leads MOST people to buy the music that is actually worth the $. having easy access lets fans broaden their horizons, thus the artists can really expand their following. people will still buy what they want. i know that i do and so do my friends.
I download the music, buy the concert ticket and merch. Simple compensation
@#1 “and its still illegal and you will get caught…”
It is not illegal here in Switzerland :)
im not going to buy something im not sure i will like. i could get hold of it for free and then if i like i will buy more!
Downloading music is the best way that I find new bands that I like. Generally, I don’t buy the cds once I find ones that I like because I can’t afford it, but I do go to concerts and recommend bands to friends. I will gladly support the bands that I like in the ways that I can without buying their cds.
I’m pirating a couple of Moloko albums now because they are unavailable for purchase in the Amazon MP3 Store and are unavailable on cd from the rest of their store. I would have paid the $8.99 for them if they had been available. This is what the RIAA isn’t understanding — we don’t want to just buy the pop music they are giving contracts to, but the rare Euro electronica or indie groups as well.
For two years I lived in Thunder Bay, a smaller city in Northern Ontario, while I went to school. Being an Asian film fan, I was obviously bored in a small city such as Thunder Bay after leaving Toronto where Asian films were easily accessable.
While I was there my life basically consisted of going to school, going to Wal-Mart, going to Chapters, and sitting at home on my computer for hours and hours. I discovered the JPop group “Hello! Project” during those long hours and quickly became a big fan.
I returned to Toronto last May and managed to locate an import shop that carries H!P CDs,DVDs, posters, and even calanders. I have spent probably $900-$1000 on H!P things in the last year. I’d say that’s a lot…perhaps too much…to spend on music in a year. I have no intention of slowing down my H!P spending either. Before that I never really bought music…I had 3 Godzilla CDs and that was it.
So to sum it up nice and short: thanks to filesharing music online I have now spent $900-$1000 on music in just year. Thankfully Zetima is not a member of the RIAA or I would feel guilty about doing that.
Actually, BECAUSE of pirating music, I am now going to 5 concerts this summer, all of which are artists that I love, and could not afford to buy all their albums on my own. So in essence I am giving back and giving them interest and popularity. When are these companies going to realise this brings them good?
F*ck the industry, we just want music.
“its because you have to support whats worth supporting and they just dll what they want but isn’t worth buying an album”
if it’s not worth buying, then don’t download it either.
If you notice, the artists that are getting pissed about people downloading their albums have valuable music (IE: people ARE willing to pay for it, but decide to download it instead).
Independent artists/less popular artists don’t care as much because they don’t have any money for marketing and it does help spread the word.
good article.
its all about the music baby
This is the best article I’ve read on the subject.
I started out downloading my music for free, the bottom line is I now buy a lot of music because I can’t get enough for free. Or, I want it in higher quality or just want to support the artist!
Even the goody two shoes people who have paid for “all” their music could be caught in copyright violations. They come out with new rules all the time. No one is 100% legal anymore.
it’s just a matter of ignorance:
– music industry ignores consumer interests
– music industry ignores technological advantages
– music industry ignores artist criteria
Now that’s the way to go, cut out all the middle men and nasty greedy labels, good for you. I can sample to my hearts content and then buy if I like it or want to contribute to your art.
Three cheers for the internet, p2p, and torrent technology which those greedy labels are trying to kill.
“the music industry is dead”
No, only the copyright industry
It’s much easier to delete music from my hard drive then try to justify the cost of CDs I might purchase for trial listening. With the internet I can download 50 CDs, try them, then purchase the one or two I like and delete the rest. If I wasn’t able to download the music I would never hear some of the obscure music I like that gets no radio air play and I’d never spend the money to purchase it.
Obviously the music industry wants me to purchase all 50 CDs because they get paid whether I like the music or not. Their model has absolutely nothing to do with the satisfaction of the customer and everything to do with financing the share holder’s excessive lifestyle.
Personally, I only buy from indie lables that make it clear that the cash goes to the artists. I usually look at riaaradar.com and if I find that an album was distributed by an RIAA-member lable, I pirate it.
I think this topic is over complicated.. its very easy to see why the labels fight so hard.. the way of the future has them NO WHERE in the picture.. labels are going extinct..
When joe blow can create – mix – produce – distribute music on his $500 crap laptop.. what do the labels have to do? NOTHING. That was there main job.. they were the first to have the full blown studios, so expensive no one could afford it.
The other job they had was distribution… getting it from point A to B by physical media. The internet wiped that shit out in a heartbeat..
The labels have nothing left to do BUT fight.. every penny they invest in keeping them alive is all worth spending from a financial point of view.. there just IS NOT enough room on the internet for all those assholes who are used to making X amount of money doing shit the world is going to forget about..
PEOPLE WILL LOOSE JOBS.. YES.. I believe this will happen, but NEW jobs will open up by the thousands.. they just wont be the same! Its the side effect of natural business evolution.. everything will sooner or later evolve.
Lets face it, in today’s world college education is no longer sustaining people for the rest of there lives.. right now im an IT guy that makes a living off of Microsoft absolute crap OS. One day in my life someone will wipe out Microsoft and I WILL HAVE TO FIGURE SOMETHING OUT OR DIE. These fucking loser label people grew up thinking they could retire from this industry they created.. they were wrong.
The people who delivered ice had to learn how to work on ICE MAKERS.
The people who took care of horses had to learn how to fix vehicles.
The people who did office work all on paper had to learn how to use a computer.
The people who used to be telephone operators had to learn how to work on advanced telecoms systems.
Stop crying, stop whining. You have 2 choices.
1.Evolve
2.Die
im an average guy. i havent bought music since p2p took off. all the people i know don’t buy music cds anymore either. so who exactly are these studies about?
you make it sound like music pirates are innocent but the pirates of intellectual property are not! They are like rats and snakes steal what someone else has worked all of their life like me and my promoter and he is flying with my life work with prosperity as I even guide him and his group and I am homeless sleeping on water a couple of hours a night! This is intentional going on for 12 years and no decency in it!It is calculative crime!
didn’t the RIAA say the same thing about cass. tape (run fer the hills ma barker! it’s the end of the world! they’ll tape evrythign and we’ll sell nothing!!! waaaahhhh!)
And then, studies came out that showed that people who did precisely that, were the biggest consumers of music. Same thing w/CD-R’s (which they also said would kill the industry).
Dumb. Listen, as a retail music employee of 20 yrs (when they still had shops – and i don’t mean 1 or 2 ) i could have saved them a whole bunch of money and time – we buy more, because we CARE more. We DL more because we LOOOOOOVE music more than anything!
What ‘killed’ the industry (read: diminished profits) wasn’t tape, CD-R’s, the internet OR iPods!
What killed them is their own stupid actions – & i don’t mean JUST fighting filesharing – shee-it. You would not believe the stories…coked-out AR reps, promo-flushing, incredibly F*d up accting procedures, selling out to the CORP suits (loss leader product pricing anyone? Best Buy, I’m looking at you).
And now, the cat is FIRMLY out of the bag – DRM? please. Anything can be hacked/broken/ripped.
Like many co.s, they will forevermore never recognize the landscape until they remove their blinders – but by then, it will be too late.
Art waits for no man.
I will start out by saying I don’t quite know where I stand on File Sharing still to this day. I do know that I find the argument that “Pirates Buy More Music” to have very little factual weight. Both sides of this argument claim to have studies to back up their claims. Anyone who has ever read Frank Luntz knows these studies are easy to manipulate, so I give both sides no cloture when citing their respective studies. The one fact that I do see that is very clear is record sales are WAY DOWN, and I work with a lot of bands who steal, and nearly everyone I know steals music from Torrents/Blogs. I feel the “Music Industry” has the fact that record sales are miserable on it’s side in this argument and would be very curious if the “Pirates” really have any evidence that strong to show to counter it. Please, enlighten me?
-Jesse Musformation.com
I’m a musician, and you can steal my music all you want. I think it’s a different era. A lot of the musicians I know are more focused on having their music heard than fighting over $.99 download. Exposure=good.
Wealth is a long term strategy I guess.
http://chantelletibbsmusic.com
Go ahead, steal it;)
As Tim O’Reilly said (paraphrasing):
the greatest threat against [a content creator] is not piracy, but obscurity.
The digital era didn’t just bring more piracy, it brought more artists and more releases.
In the 1980s, the possibility of printing your own CD was very costly. Now I can print up a run of 1000 discs for £1200.
There is so much music now, battling for attention, that things are either going to continue in the same sorry state, or things are going to evolve (or crash and burn then rebuild).
The major labels have been greedy for far too long – there isn’t a single book publisher out there that would take the copyright of an authors work, would do the labels?
I hate piracy, I’m a musician and I hate the thought of someone taking my hard work and releasing it without my permission. But I know it’s going to happen.
So I roll with it. Put it online myself, try to spread it as far and wide as I can. If a hundred people download it and one buys it, that is a success – not a great success, but a success. A building block on which to continue.
The industry needs a nobody to rise up through online, to show that it can be done. Then things will start to change.
I think downloading is just a corrective phenom. Before recorded music, musicians had to play live and often to make any money at all. Maybe the death of the labels and their crap laden contracts and promotional tools (pun intended)is just how the norm reasserts itself. Superstar musicians,after all, are a relatively new species.
If I could not download music for free, I would copy tapes from my friends. And if I was still in 1930 I guess I would learn 2 sing. Anyway Im not payying 10 USD$ for a useless plastic disc, that wont even be mine after I pray a grotesk overprice for it.
when will those of you that see file sharing as so “evil” get a freaking clue? it’s in no ways an evil thing to share music/movies/pictures/programs with other people on the internet. and this whole “you’re gonna get caught” thing is getting REALLY old, REALLY fast. do you know who it is that gets caught downloading stuff off the internet? people that are dumb enough to STILL install programs on their computers that supposedly claim that they will help the computer user to be more productive, or some other false claim like that, when in reality those programs are nothing more than spyware. here’s a clue: if you install ANYTHING that has piggy-back programs that want to install during the installation process, and you don’t have the choice of not installing those piggy-back programs, then DON’T install the main program! it’s that simple. not only that, but most people tend to think that their browsing history cannot be traced, when they NEVER set their browser of choice up to delete their browsing history/ internet cookies when they’re done searching the internet, and they close their browser, and they also don’t go through their folders on their computer and delete things out of their temp directory, temporary internet files folder, and history folder that could be used to incriminate them. this is all basic, common sense stuff that ANY person can do that owns a pc, but most people don’t think to do it. personally, i ALWAYS go through my computer’s temp directory, and i have my computer set up so that NO browsing history gets saved by my internet browser, and i also have my recent documents folder set up via a registry hack to NOT have anything saved in it. there’s NO reason to even have a recent documents folder, anyway.
to sum it all up: file-sharing is fine, and those that think it’s not need to get a clue. if you haven’t cleaned out your temporary files directory, then you NEED to do it, and the same thing goes for your recent documents folder. oh yeah, don’t leave your torrent client open for weeks on end without closing it down, just because you want to seed a file. that alone could be the real reason why some people have gotten busted. USE YOUR BRAINS.
Hey Everyone!
I’ve been downloading music since early Napster days. I have kept track of how much music I downloaded (way to much to actually listen to, mostly to sample) and How many CDs I have bought. My numbers are about 5,000 songs (DL) and 300-400 CDs purchased. Yes, I have listened to all the CDS. What is everyone elses numbers?
@98
I assume you use something along the lines of Eraser to delete all these files? If not, its trivial to recover temp files, internet history (which is stored regardless of your settings in index.dat) etc.
The safest way of protecting your computer from unauthorised access (such as if the police took it) is to encrypt your hard disk. Have a look at TrueCrypt.
For cleaning of your files have a look at CCleaner – It can even wipe your tracks to DoD standards!
Maybe people who pirate music just lie on surveys more. Kind of makes sense to me that people who take things without paying would also probably be liars.
Ive not bought a CD since 1999.Why?
I always end up with an argument with folk who ask me this question.SIMPLE ANSWER
AVAILABILITY
AVAILABILITY
AVAILABILITY
I was in college when my fave CD used to come out worldwide and we ran to our stores to find out that people didn’t even know who we were talking about.RIAA if your distribution network doesnt reach us in other countries.HOW THe F**K do u NOT EXPECT PIRACY.
PIRACY : The unauthorized use or reproduction of copyrighted or patented material.
Thats how the dictionary defines IT.
HOW DO U EXPECT FANS WHO ARE HUNGRY TO WATCH THE LATEST MOVIES not to get an unauthorized version of it.
F**K MAN!!! these OLD f**ks who are at the RIAA/MOvieBOSSES dont have a clue how good technology is these days in distributing content.
GIVE ME A MOVIE’s NAME…I will get to in NO TIME.(and for anyone anywhere in the world)
GIVE me AN ALBULMS NAME….I will get in seconds (and for anyone anywhere in the WORLD)
GIVE ME A SOFTWARE…I’ll get for anywhere anytime and IT WILL FREAKING WORK….
When you learn how to do that without having me pay an exhoberent TAX or SHIPPING FEE or SUBSCRIPTION
I WILL PAY FOR YOUR SH*T….GET THAT ITS THAT F**KING SIMPLE YOU FAT-I-WANT-ALL-THE-MONEY-IN-MY-POCKETS F*GS..
Another THING…you biatches are doing well in spite of the recession…..YOUR BEST YEAR…And you know why ur BREAKING every FREAKING RECORD on the planet..
CAUse its people LIKE US who spread teh buzz about GREAT content
PIRACY HAS Created a Legion of fans in places where none of UR F***KING ARTISTS WIlll be able to FREAJING NAME
Quite honestly this is all a moot point. The loss of dollars that the recording industry claims they are suffering from, is just a drop in the ocean and they are not really concerned about it. They just use this to fuel peoples emotions which serves to further their cause. What they are really concerned about is the loss of control and their monopoly which they are trying to protect.
Even if they are shown the evidence without a shadow of a doubt, they will never agree that the downloaders are actually the ones keeping their antiquated business model afloat.
Real Pirates don’t participate in studies, we are anonymous.
I’m fully prepared to send bands $5 or $10 for each album I download – it’s more than they’d get from me buying their album anyway
http://www.tech3d.net
I despise greedy corporations and believe information should be free…
but…
I’m also an independent recording artist and an ASCAP member and (though it isn’t much) I DEPEND on the income from my quarterly ASCAP checks (in addition to the day job I can’t wait to quit).
My art utilizes machinery which constantly needs to be maintained, serviced or upgraded. It also requires electricity and a rented studio space in addition to numerous other things, none of which are free, most of which are quite expensive.
I have never made anywhere near enough to be able to sustain my craft with just shows, merch table sales and snocap. Forget about recording other bands, they’re always broke. I have also never met anyone who’s said: ” hey, great album! here’s the several thousand dollars you’ll need to make the next one.” or ” here, let me repair that console for free”.
It’s been years and I’m STILL waiting for someone to show me a “new model” where I can continue to make the music my fans want to consume. Not idealism, not speculation, but HARD DATA. I want to see figures.
anyone? hello?
thought so.
I’m thinking that the pirate community should make a stand to show how much the Music industry is hurting it’s self.
On the last week of June (June 29th-July 3rd) every person who ‘pirates’ music should not buy any music what so ever. Hold off on all purchases or buy before hand. Just to show the purchasing power of those who download music.
Every one should share this idea and plaster it on every torrent site.
People who solely steal music are essentially cowards. I doubt they head off to the mall and steal themselves their new outfit. Or go to McDonalds and snag another person’s order and run. You’re calling this a “true music fan”? One who can’t even support a band? People seem to think bands are rolling in the benjamins just because they have a CD out. Not true. In this day and age it’s not realistic to say everyone should be buying ALL their music, but taking a trip and snagging a full album should be more regular a thing than it is.
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