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Zut Alors! French Government Deny BitTorrent Piracy Allegations

Mid-December, data from YouHaveDownloaded was used to show that several illegal downloads had taken place in the palace of French President Sarkozy. These, however, were just the tip of the iceberg. More than 250 further IP addresses belonging to the French Ministry of Culture have now been linked to illegal downloads but the government, unsurprisingly, say they are completely innocent. OK, so prove it.

alorsLast month, Nicolas Perrier of Nikopik told TorrentFreak that he had found infringing downloads at the Élysée Palace – the official residence of President Sarkozy.

Using the tools at YouHaveDownloaded, Perrier found six illegal downloads including a cam copy of the movie Tower Heist, a telesync copy of Arthur Christmas, and music from The Beach Boys.

But while six downloads are easily ignored, bigger things were around the corner for the French government. The country’s Ministry of Culture has quite an online presence and are allocated more than 65,000 IP addresses. Perrier and friends scanned them all and found 250 government IP addresses that were used to share the latest movies, music, video games and even adult titles during the last two months.

Instead of keeping their collective heads down, the government has now issued a press release refuting the allegations.

“The Management Information Systems Department ensures strict use of computers in its fleet,” the Ministry of Culture said in a statement quoted by Numerama.

“The configuration of the network prevents connections to peer-to-peer networks, which excludes any possibility of using such networks for illegal downloading,” the Ministry added, while offering assurances that “internal audits” are now underway.

The statements here appear somewhat conflicting. On the one hand illegal downloads are apparently impossible, but on the other the Ministry has seen fit to commission an audit. They don’t sound confident, that’s for sure.

Interestingly, thanks to YouHaveDownloaded the debate on the accuracy and usefulness of IP addresses evidence has been stimulated. Unsurprisingly, though, the French government doesn’t dismiss the usefulness of IP address evidence completely. When they’re the ones collecting it, it can be relied on. When others harvest it, the data loses its value.

“The processes used by the site youhavedownloaded.com can in no way be compared with the methodology employed by TMG,” says the Ministry. Trident Media Guard is the company that collects evidence for France’s 3-strikes ‘HADOPI’ law. In common with all similar companies, their systems are secret and not open for scrutiny.

“The findings of this process can not therefore call into question the process established by the HADOPI, particularly in regard to the reliability of the findings derived from an IP address. As a result, all of these allegations appear unfounded,” the Ministry concludes.

One of the main problems with IP address-based evidence is what happens when someone is wrongfully accused. There is no simple way of refuting the claims and it’s down to the defendant to prove their innocence.

It’s all well and good for the Ministry of Culture to say “it’s impossible to share files from our IP addresses” but will that standard of rebuttal be acceptable coming from the man in the street faced with an accusation from HADOPI? Hardly.

So, if the Ministry of Culture is completely innocent let’s see them held to their own standards. Let them show their citizens how proving a negative, that something didn’t happen, is done. They’re not going to find that easy, even with their limitless resources.

Update: Canada’s parliament also has piracy issues.

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  • Mnjugg

    All that comes to mind is “Do as I say, not as I do”.

  • FFS

    >..”IP addresses belonging to the French Ministry of Culture have now been linked to illegal downloads but the government, unsurprisingly, say they are completely innocent. OK, so prove it.”
    >OK, so prove it.
    >prove it.

    You could start by proving the accuracy of the YHD site.

    • Heh.

      I would like to see how YDH works, I stumbled upon that website and it showed quite a lot of things that I clearly know I did not download (one such example being an entire season of Dora the Explorer)?

      • http://twitter.com/Power2All Power2All

        You have probably a dynamic IP.
        The site does say about Dynamic IP’s that you have a IP of someone else then.
        Thing with the IP’s TorrentFreak checks, are static, and cannot be used by different random people.

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          Not to mention the infamous IP spoofing. One can always spoof an IP and use it to download child porn. Can you blame the rightful subscriber for the said IP for the crimes carried by others? Nowadays with all the pressure it has become pretty common to spoof IPs. I’ve checked my IP on YHD and it has both things I did download (one of them pretty far from any mainstream content so I’m sure it was my download) and a few other stuff I’m sure no1 downloaded at home (I’m the only bt user there). So we have 3 possibilities here: 1- some1 used my wi-fi to download (the open portion) 2- My IP was spoofed 3- In the very rare events where I’m running TOR (I set myself as an exit spot) some1 downloaded that and I got the data.

          Regardless of what really happened there, it’s obvious that I’m not responsible for part of the downloads. If I were in France I’d get a few dozen strikes.

          BUT, BUT…. SECURE WI-FI! Tell that to all those cities with free connections all over the place ;)

    • Anonymous

      the point is that the Hadopi stuff is just as unreliable, but they treat it as if it was 100% accurate

      • Bakapinkuu

        Agreed – and they double down on their hypocrisy by saying they can’t reveal their methods because it’s a secret.

        • BooBooKittyPhuck

          Jack Murdock must be French… <3

        • Herptyderp

          Yes we are going to fine you but we are not going to show you what the fines are based on, that’s a secret. They might as well be random.

      • FFS

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_wrongs_make_a_right

        Cliche? Yes.
        Does that mean its not true?

        No.

      • FFS

        You cant make a point out of this is the tool you’re using has invalid data.
        If you look at this in just one direction you really get nowhere.

        Just jumping to conclusions doesnt do any good.

        • monkeyslap

          Did you read the article? The whole point of the article is to prove that just because you have “evidence” that an IP address has downloaded something doesn’t make it true. The french government relies on this theory and believe that a IP address can prove an infringement without a doubt. Is the YouHaveDownlaoded site accurate? Probably not. Is the evidence the french government has on citizens doing the same thing 100% accurate? I highly doubt it.

          “Just jumping to conclusions doesnt do any good.”

          That’s exactly what the french government does. Their “evidence” isn’t 100% accurate and that is the point the article is trying to make. Are you going to ask the french government to prove they have the right people when they accuse someone of illegally downloading something? Probably not.

        • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

          Hold the accusers to the same standards that THEY have created

          Let THEM … conclude / profess / publish / declare / Shout OUT

          “” an IP address does not equal identity “”
          “” People can not be cut off the internet over an IP address”"
          “” People can not be fined because an IP address is “infringing” “”
          “” SOPA will create havoc”"


          Let THEM … disavow / refute / condemn / defame

          The standards that THEY have created on behalf of corporate profit

          Hold the accusers to the same standards that THEY have created

        • FFS

          and no i didnt read the article.

    • Anonymous

      It doesn’t matter because you cannot prove a negative. Can you prove you never downloaded something? Of course not. Out of 65,000 IP addresses you can bet that someone is infringing.

      Check the accuracy of the site yourself. Run your IP address and see what you get. Download a legal torrent file like a driver disc ISO and see if that shows up.

      • Herptyderp

        Again only if you have a static IP. Otherwise you need to write down the IP you are using while you are downloading. Not check the one you randomly get the next week or day.

      • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

        It works fella, not perfect but it works. No network is foolproof as the French Govt goons want to make believe.

    • YarickZan

      I don’t think YHD site will release information on how it does that because it’s actually a trade secret. See the parallels that are being drawn there?

      • Herptyderp

        No just a false claim you are making on a hunch.

        • YarickZan

          And you are completely missing the point. How can data collected by these companies be considered any more reliable if said companies will not allow any insight into how the data is collected because it’s a trade secret? For all we know they are doing exactly the same thing that YHD is doing.

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          I think YHD collection method is pretty much public?

    • Gae

      I expect the accuracy of the YHD site is no more or less accurate than the information collected by TMG and I expect there is a large margin of error with both methods.

      • Borderliner

        Yep… except the first just displays the info, while the second gathering is the basis for cutting access to the Internet.

    • Grumpyweepom

      I don’t believe the accuracy personally. We input the ip addresses of everything in our dmz and the one that returned results was the ip address of our dns appliance! The kind of appliance where you don’t have o/s level access so could not be running a torrent client…

    • Anonymous

      I’d be happy to do that. However, according to the french government, once a finger is pointed at a presumtive downloader, it’s up to the accused to prove his innocense.

      Going by their own policy and law it is up to them to prove the accusation false, not the other way around.

  • Anonymous

    typical! when we say IP addresses don’t identify a person, we’re wrong! when the government uses them (particularly when the company being used by them have been proven to use flawed methods), everything is correct! usual double standards, arse holes!

    • Guest

      You’re missing the point. The double standard is with the government and anti piracy agencies that are shrugging off these allegations with no lasting consequences while they continue to use the same standard of evidence for ordinary people.

    • http://twitter.com/Power2All Power2All

      You probably are not educated enough in IT.
      Dynamic IP = Randomized IP give away to people.
      Static IP = Always using the same IP.

      The government use bought IP ranges thats on their NAME.
      Meaning, nobody else then them can use it, so it’s OBVIOUS that people can point fingers then.

      • Anonymous

        I don’t see how that is relevant to what this guy was saying? He wasn’t questioning any of the data against the French government he was just saying that it is hypocritical to assume an IP address correctly identifies the person or organisation responsible for copyright infringement until you are in the spotlight yourself.

      • Anonymous

        …and it’s telling that even given static numbers, it’s a given that many of them will be false.

        Aside from that, Trident Media guard is talking complete and utter bull when they say their method is much better than that employed by YHD. They both rely on the same fundamentally flawed “evidence” to draw a conclusion.

  • As

    they should be raided at a start then have computer under investigation , then get in jail and wait until proven innocent , this how the law work for us and for them should be the same , now who will have the ball to do this ,,,, alas no one

    • Christophe Thomas

      Chill down – ze Frenchies have not been thrown in jail all that much – but you are right – they should get those 3strike letters – and being disconnected if they infringe further down the road.

  • Anonymous

    @Torf French government deny Bittorent Allegations…You shouldn’t believe, my co-worker’s step-aunt makes $80/hr on the computer. She has been without work for 9 months but last month her income was USD9023 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read more on this site… http://shrt.st/2blu

  • Anonymous

    “The configuration of the network prevents connections to peer-to-peer networks, which excludes any possibility of using such networks for illegal downloading.”

    I bet this means that all they did was block the default ports. They’re probably dumb enough to think that’d do it. The P2Pers there probably didn’t even notice.

    • Anonymous

      “On the one hand illegal downloads are apparently impossible, but on the other the Ministry has seen fit to commission an audit. They don’t sound confident, that’s for sure.”

      Anyone making a statement on how it’s “impossible” to use torrent protocols from within an intranet obviously never spoke with the network tech in charge.

      And the latter sentence tells me that someone within the government DID speak to a network tech and was enlightened as to the use of tunnels, simple proxies and of course, the use of nonstandardized setups.

      Back in the golden olden days where network administrators and system superusers were more common you might have had a prayer at supervising what went down on your network but today? My guess is the french government is lucky if there is one part-time consultant they call in on a regular basis to restart the routers.

      In order to achieve any form of network security, most organizations would have to up their IT overhead by at least an order of magnitude. And thus, police officers keep getting caught watching child porn on “supposedly secure” police networks and government officials are implicated in illegal filesharing as no organization wants to justify the expense of human supervision of the network.

  • Phil Landry

    It’s like my university. They say it’s impossible to download p2p from their network. While it may be true that the computers are locked and the trackers are blocked, it doesn’t stop people from using the university’s wifi with their own software. Using tor for tracker communication with DHT works pretty well. They sure did throttled the speed of P2P, but they did not slow down FTP. In the end I download bit-torrent at a lightning speed on port 22!

    • http://www.youhavedownloaded.com/ YouHaveDownloaded

      Exactly. That’s exactly what our French friends do.

  • Christophe Thomas

    Yeah its really all that simple … your bitotrrent does reveal IP’s on you P2P – so if you doubt that the data on YouHaveDownloaded is not correct you can always connect to the same P2P swarm and if you are lucky you ll find the IP’s in questions. This is if you are lucky – but then again we always knew that people do download that stuff everywhere – it s just a way to hold up a mirror and tell them : “see for yourself – what you are about to criminalize is what Mr & Mme Dupont have been doing ever since including some Duponts working for the Ministry of Culture.” Of course they know this too … but since they always do as if not – it s kinda funny to play this game. I would like to see this audit results … pitty we never will! Good work TF – keep em coming :)

  • http://www.twitter.com/echoman74 echoman

    lol this is the funniest thing hadopi my ass they fucking downloaded stop trying to cover your tracks you tyrants.

  • Mwhahaha

    This evidence being produced by the absolutely full of shit haveyoudownloaded service which showed me downloading 4 things, 3 of which I’d never even heard of and a fourth which was something I would never get.

    I call shenanigans!

    • Anonymous

      try again with a static IP

    • Herptyderp

      I call it lack of knowledge.

    • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

      I disagree. technically it is not hard to do…… it’s really easy

      Download torrentFiles.X
      Join the swarms of torrentFiles.X
      Record the ip addresses.Y of all peers in the swarm over time.T
      Save X , Y and T….. to a DB

      Done. now you have it………
      Automate the processes with a script running on a high bandwidth server…. You can monitor ALL BT traffic THAT HAS TORRENT FILES publicly available.

      **You could even EASILY do it yourself with ………. firewall logging + rssFeed torrent downloader + a basic spreadsheet to compile the data..

  • Ashamed

    Wonderful article. It’s quite refreshing to see the governments held to the standard that they claim for others. The rule of law is one of the most important aspects of government, and if they won’t keep to it themselves, then it’s our responsibility to bring their hypocrisy to light.

    That said, I’m not aware of the French government’s policy on the accuracy of IP harvesting. Have they actually been accepting IP addresses as valid evidence in courts or legislation?

    • Anonymous

      yes they have, as stated in the article (TMG is mentioned harvesting IPs for their 3strike Hadopi BS)

      • Ashamed

        Ah, i missed that part. Thank you.

  • Chronoss2008

    off topic : nzbmatrix – dbase error

    • http://tinyurl.com/ANoiXioNA-personal-info ANoiXioNA

      back up

  • Garycrum10

    i like these produds

  • Anon

    French meh meh meh can’t stand up for themselves unless someone wants to cut their farming subsidies….at least the Germans have balls!

  • Garycrum10

    need more producks to sell

  • UniversalSoldier

    I am just loving these articles… Good job TF..
    Any chance we can see the report from your IP addresses ;-)

  • Kharak

    “Wow!!

    Are you sure you and your friends don’t work for the RIAA? Maybe Sony or Universal? Maybe you’re both just really good at covering your tracks. Either way, congratulations, neither you or your friends and family returned any results from our crawlers. Tonight, you can jump into bed, open up Netflix or iTunes and sleep comfortably knowing that you’ve been a well-behaved, law-abiding internet user. But remember, there’s always tomorrow.
    There’s… always… tomorrow…
    208.73.210.29
    United States (US), California, Los Angeles”
    Torrentfreaks IP results :)

    • Milkshakes00

      Time to spoof your IP address, then. :)

  • Guest

    An interesting and cynical article (in French) that goes along the same lines can ve found at : http://reflets.info/les-pirates-du-ministere-de-la-culture/

  • JerkOff

    This YHD site sucks monkey balls. I have never downloaded anything using torrents ever. I had 2 torrents associated to my IP last month and now today there are as many as 6 torrents listed. WTF?

    I am using the same static IP for the last 5 years and I don’t even use Wifi that someone could steal my net. I am the only one who uses my connection. I tell you this site is totally BS. The French Ministry shouldn’t even bother explaining any result coughed up by that site because its totally fake. I think the Hadopi uses a more reliable system than that site.

    • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

      lol ^ welcome to the real world of having to prove innocence when allegations made against you are clearly false.

      Your static IP could easily have been adopted (or ‘spoofed’) by a downloader and yet YOU get the blame because HADOPI says IP addresses are sufficient enough evidence to prove your guilt.

      The law is an ass because accuracy is in the eye of the accuser.

      See you in Court my friend … and I hope you’ve enough cash to pay for a decent solicitor who understands FULLY the technical issues and limitations of such false allegations against you. Because you wont get ‘value for money’ otherwise and may well end up with a hefty fine for your misplaced trust and investment in an inadequate solicitor.

      Because even FALSE allegations and charges of wrongdoing will take a hefty chunk out of your savings as you defend your innocence against such a torrent of so-called “evidence”.

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  • Garycrum10

    we like all of these

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  • http://tinyurl.com/sniper2-o Mary Jones

    It is what it is and sometimes we need to see what it is.

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