TorrentFreak

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BitTorrent Site Owners Fear European Domain Name Seizures

A new round of domain name seizures targeted at retailers of counterfeit goods has operators of BitTorrent sites worried. For the first time a large-scale operation has seized not only U.S. domains, but also several European-controlled domains too. The general belief among a group of BitTorrent site owners is that the takedowns are a test case for an international effort targeted at file-sharing and streaming related sites.

Over the past two years a series of domain name seizures by Homeland Security’s ICE unit have resulted in a mild panic among the owners of file-sharing and streaming sites.

Knowing that they could lose their domain names without warning or due process, many have secured alternatives. Others have taken things a step further by moving their sites to non-U.S. controlled domains as a precaution.

The Pirate Bay, for example, traded in its .org domain for a Swedish .se TLD earlier this year. Others BitTorrent sites including Demonoid, Torrentz and KickassTorrents took similar measures, as did several file-hosting and streaming portals.

The operators of these sites chose domain names that don’t fall under the jurisdiction of the United States under the assumption that they are better protected against seizures. However, yesterday it became clear that this is not necessarily the case.

On ‘Cyber Monday’ ICE announced yet another round of seizures, this time with help from European law enforcement agencies and Europol and dubbed Project TransAtlantic.


Seized

“Recognizing the global nature of Internet crime, this year the IPR Center partnered with Europol, who, through its member countries, executed coordinated seizures of foreign-based top-level domains such as .eu, .be, .dk, .fr, .ro and .uk. This effort is titled Project Transatlantic and resulted in 31 domain name seizures,” ICE states.

The authorities haven’t released a list of the European targets but chaussuresfoot.be, chaussurevogue.eu and eshopreplica.eu are included. In Denmark Cardsharing.dk was seized but the site might not fall under the same operation as it displays a different banner. Also, the Cardsharing domain is more piracy than counterfeit-related as it allows users to share access to pay TV.

It comes as no surprise that operators of file-sharing and streaming sites are concerned about these new developments. While yesterday’s actions were mostly targeted at retailers of counterfeit goods, similar efforts could easily cross over to “pirate” sites.

TorrentFreak talked to several BitTorrent site owners, and all fear that this may be a test case for a new round of piracy-related seizures. The general opinion is that by including the European domain names, ICE and partners are signaling that no domain name is safe.

The Pirate Bay team, currently operating under a .se domain, shares the concerns of other site owners but don’t think they will be targeted soon.

Previously The Internet Infrastructure Foundation, responsible for operating the .se TLD, said it would consider its options in the event a court order was received. According to the foundation, domain names are not the source of the problem as they are easily traded in for new ones.

“We believe the problem in this type of situation is not the domain, but rather its contents. The domain name itself is not an accomplice in act of copyright infringement and if thepiratebay.se, for example, were to be shut down, the site would almost certainly reopen under another top-level domain,” the group wrote in a blog post recently.

Indeed, if The Pirate Bay domains were seized the site would simply return under a new one within minutes. And TPB is not the only site in this position. As we previously documented the vast majority of all the streaming and file-sharing sites that have been seized over the past two years quickly returned under a new domain name.

However, this doesn’t mean that seizures don’t do damage. Torrent-Finder, for example, lost its .com domain late 2010 and never fully recovered to the same traffic levels the site had before. The loss of Google juice appears to be the main worry in this regard.

The torrent site operators TorrentFreak talked to are not planning to switch domains anytime soon, but all have backup plans in case they become a target. Time will tell whether these are needed or not.

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  • JOHN MAIDEN

    You had one job. (Illegals and drug runners still everywhere).

    • Guest

      I suggest start using OpenNIC.

      http://wiki.opennicproject.org/Tier2

      have fun

      • Gee

        Agreed, I was just about to suggest that. Government is the enemy, especially the US Gov, the more we can distant ourselves from their controlled idealism’s the better.

        http://www.opennicproject.org/

        • Guest

          Ya governments have became the enemies of the people after being taken over by the corporations banks being at the head of it.

          “Project TransAtlantic” is the proof that there is a world wide corporate conspiracies to steal the internet.

          It is time to do some marks at the head of this growing cancer before this kill us all. Let bring the chemo and strike at the heart of the tumors headquarters.

        • GUEST

          FUCK OFF AMERICA, YOU GLOBAL FUCKING BULLY

          RAHHHHH

        • http://pogue972.blogspot.com/ pogue972

          On the page it mentions you have to agree to their terms of service to use their site, but I couldn’t find a link to it anywhere. Do they allow anything and everything or do they have policies that might block certain content on their TLDs?

        • Gee

          @pogue972 each TLD has its own charter, for example the dotpirate charter can be found at http://opennic.pirate. and I dont see any reference to them saying you have to agree to a “terms of service” but they do say you have to agree with their charter found on their policies page http://www.opennicproject.org/opennic-policies/

          But they wont just delete your domain, if your domain is found not to agree with the given TLDs charter it would be put to a vote to the whole membership, and you are then giving the option to appeal.

        • Hogspace

          Or .onion

        • Gee

          @Hogspace If you want to hid your server then sure, but if you just want a DNS that cant be censored by an overzealous Government then an alt DNS is a better choice, because onion/tor routes your connection through at least 3 slow-ass servers. An alt-dns uses your regular connection, so you get full speed and don’t have to worry about switching to a proxy all the damn time.

        • PiRat

          The people handed their governments/countries over to the banks.

      • http://www.blockaid.me/ BlockAid DNS

        FYI, our network supports OpenNic and you get added benefits.

        • Guest

          I just did a traceroute on your primary DNS address and it went in the following order

          Germany 2 hops -> Netherlands 7 hops -> United States 5 hops -> China 1 hop -> Destination Canada final hop

          Just askin’ 16 hops, isn’t that kinda the long way around for a DNS query?

        • http://www.blockaid.me/ BlockAid DNS

          The primary address is relative. If you’re in Europe, you should be using the other address.

          In testing, we’ve found that, provided you use the address the correct way around, the average response should not be more than 5 milliseconds.

        • Guest

          I’m in the US and used the primary (205.204.88.60) for the US. I ran the trace a few times with the same routing results. With the routing going all around the world, how can you be sure that the query won’t take longer than 5 ms?

          In my case, each trace was longer than that and in a few instances much longer. There are a LOT of independent routers throughout that route and that’s something that none of us have control over.

          Once again, just sayin’

        • http://www.blockaid.me/ BlockAid DNS

          Thats is very odd. We chose .ca because it wasn’t in the US but was still close. We’ve also run multiple tests from a host of different places in the US and I’ve never seen that happen before. Can’t really explain it.

          I can’t guarantee the query time, that’s just the average we got from testing.

        • Guest

          Something there seems hinkey to me too. I started off 15 years ago with 20 Cisco 2501′s connected to a Cisco 4000 as my gateway. We routed over 5,000 customers using only 12 Class C’s. Believe me, efficient subnetting and routing was the only way to go and was ingrained into our thinking.

          I don’t know why the intermediate routers are taking me across the Atlantic for a European hiking trip, back across the Atlantic for a US tour and then across the Pacific to China and then finally to Canada. I didn’t even get an in-flight meal!

          I would think a few US hops and then over the border would be reasonable. But not a world tour crossing both major oceans.

        • http://www.blockaid.me/ BlockAid DNS

          Indeed. I may run a few tests myself later. We can always have a word with our Canadian host.

        • Gee

          I just did a tracert from Toronto, Canada and it never left the country until it was passed of to the final network. But response time was defiantly not 5 ms, I had average of 25 ms

        • http://www.blockaid.me/ BlockAid DNS

          Ahh sorry, that is actually very good.

          It is me that has got it wrong. The average response we got was 50ms. I misread it as 5 because on our website we express it as 0.05 of a second. 25ms is pretty good.

        • http://pogue972.blogspot.com/ pogue972

          I tried this traceroute experiment to see if I got similar results of being routed outside of the USA, and could not replicate them. I am located in south central US.
          http://centralops.net/co/Traceroute.aspx?addr=205.204.88.60&ip-version=auto
          http://pastebin.com/ma6Xtjuw

          I was able to lookup all unresolvable IPs in ARIN and they came back as being located in the continental US.

        • Guest

          Sorry I didn’t get back sooner, busy ya know. Anyway, I couldn’t duplicate my previous results with the worldwide tour. I remembered I had a copy of Ipswitch’s Visual Traceroute installed so I gave that a whirl today. The screenshot below was the best trace I could get. I only ran about 10, so it wasn’t extensive.

          The first 3 hops are My Computer -> My cable modem -> My ISP POP
          The next 3 are within my ISP’s network with the final one handing off to the Internet.

          At that point there’s nothing that my ISP or your host can do anything about. That is, unless they own nLayer Communications.

          It looks like the last two hops at nLayer are generating some excess latency and once it hits your hosting service it just degrades more. Average is around 100ms

          http://oi47.tinypic.com/9sh26f.jpg

        • http://www.blockaid.me/ BlockAid DNS

          Thanks for that, it all helps. Dissapointing results though and they aren’t in-line with our previous tests but what ya gonna do.

        • Guest

          True Dat!

          I ran a continuous test for about 500 packets so that the hops would average. Same results… Looks like from the point my ISP hands off to nLayer things go downhill as far as the 50ms target is concerned.

          Maybe nLayer is throttling the connection between your host and their network? You might want to bring that to Netelligent’s attention.

          http://oi49.tinypic.com/21eqp2v.jpg

        • Guest

          One other thing… In pogue972′s experiments he used a traceroute facility located in Dallas TX (centralops.net) which traces from their server to the target. Not really a good test. If anyone uses an online trace facility, the trace is from the server they’re visiting and not from their actual computer. The results of those traces are unreliable and all you’re proving is that the server you’re attached to can locate and trace the target.

          His pastebin view is really more indicative of the actual user experience. This is because he’s tracing from his computer/network (192.168.1.xxx) to the target. In this case the average is still 75ms which is less than the 50ms target.

        • Guest

          Sorry, I meant GREATER than the 50ms target… Need more coffee…

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Yup. alternatives already exist.

      • Bananas

        i would never invest money in the webz as now my site can get destroyed out of nothing….

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          And even if you’re clean as the driven snow, you might take a dive due to “collateral damage” in a domain seizure.

          This is how the migration of legal business to the darknets begins. By a lot of entrepreneurs thinking like you.

  • Anyone

    can’t ICE concentrate on actual crime instead of imaginary crimes that cause no harm and are nothing more than advertisements for the products?

    • Violated0

      To be fair on ICE (why I should can remain a mystery) then they tend to be more focused on counterfeit products and larger copyright fraud sites these days where they have more support and success.

      After DaJaz1, RojaDirecta and a looming Mega disaster they now have less taste for our linking file sharing sites. Should they continue to push down this path they would encounter more serious criticism and just maybe in the fight back of one of these sites could get their entire domain seizure scheme ruled unlawful.

      I would also like to think that they would consider the large scale political unrest and the volatility of current copyright laws but this is the US Government and that would be total bollocks.

      • Rohe

        I bought a counterfeit jacket in italy. They asked me, if I also wanted to buy the associated brand logo, they would “put it on”, but it would take 20 minutes to look good and they were quite hush about it. I gladly denied.

        So, its not necessary the counterfeit product they hate, they hate that you might get the same quality as the counterfeit product, but without running around with their logo.

        The twisted idea to pay for being a “brand ambassador” is on the chopping block. I never got it, how the global crime lords make billions by making people believe that they believe that their neighbor believes you really bought a brand shade for 500€, when everybody knows its a bad fake.

        You can’t fight psychological insanity with law. Its a social problem.

  • Chuck

    But, if they do their real job, it might get them killed. It’s much easier and safer to harass sites online than chase down drug runners with fully automatic weapons.

    • FastNFurious

      But if they hadn’t supplied the drug runners with fully automatic weapons their real job would have been a lot easier.

      • Predator

        And the drugs!

        Sad but true! Unfortunately!

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Actually, ‘drug running’ should be legal and we should just focus on the people who sell tainted drugs, whether for pleasurable purposes or not.

  • Fantastic

    Great make it even more obvious that you are more subject to whims of Hollywood than actually law enforcement. Stand up for yourself foreign law bodies instead of bowing to these jacks.

    • Violated0

      Most interestingly they not long ago claimed that SOPA was needed for them to go after foreign websites but here they are attacking foreign websites anyway showing to all that SOPA was never needed.

      • Fantastic

        Bingo which further shows it was just a ruse to force censorship of the net. Get ready for another fight as they once again try to silence opposition as they attempt to crush the internet.

  • http://www.blockaid.me/ BlockAid DNS

    If any site owners are actually reading this, we can help you avoid domain seizure. Their programme lacks due process and tramples over foreign law systems. It is scary how much control US authorities have over basic internet infrastructure.

    For the end-users, we provide a free anti-censorship DNS service. Try us out!

    • Onion anyone?

      Best back up plan I can see at the moment is having a .onion (Tor) address.

      • http://www.blockaid.me/ BlockAid DNS

        They are indeed safe but not very easy to remember.

    • Im on opendns

      I know and use it!
      Really big thanks for the effort BlockAid DNS

      They know for sure the opendns concept but most ppl connected today don’t.
      Its a story that needs to be very well written that the average joe needs to read.

      The problem is that ICCAN cold dispute the tld by activating te same and create fake pages so the joe up there ends on the fake ones if dns is not properly configured.

    • ScrewEwe2

      Just downloaded the BlockAidDNS Setter Ap to give it a test run. Extremely easy to use. Thank You.

  • wcg

    Surely IP addresses can be stored for all the well known sites? TorrentFreak could keep a list of IP addresses, just in case. Better yet, couldn’t we just have an alternative DNS system? All this process is doing is changing the DNS entries of the domains.

    • Gee

      http://www.opennicproject.org/

      it even has a .pirate TLD

      • wcg

        Thanks for the link. I guess I should have guessed this is well underway.

        • Im on opendns

          opendns is a long time thing. as long as the normal dns controled by ICCAN.
          Not supposed to have political influences but hey, thats how the USA work.

  • Anonymous

    it probably is a test. the worry should be that if the US gets away with the seizures, particularly if with the blessings of the EU or under their instructions, that the US then decides to take control of more than anyone wants it to. we all know that one thing the US is really good at already is taking a mile when offered an inch. let it get a foot in the door and you’ll never be able to close the door again. look what happened in the case of Mega. the US lied like a pig in shit to get the NZ government and law enforcement to let it do what it wanted. when even the truth that is out atm came out, it showed exactly what a bunch of lying arseholes they are and how far they will go to get what they want, legally or otherwise. the warning signs are there, take note!

    • Anonymous

      should have added, what is the point of the EU basically telling the ITU to butt out and then handing everything over to the US? if anyone thinks this is a better option, think again. there will be no difference. it will still mean that control is given to someone when no one should have it! you can bet a pound to a pinch of shit what the arseholes in the US will do with it and i can promise you it will be of no use to anyone other than the US

  • L34

    The .dk domain seems to be seized on the initiative of the danish police, and with courts involved autorizing it.

    Hard to critizise that.

  • Anonymous

    Why rely solely on one or two domains? Purchase domains on other TLDs, but don’t use them unless and until required. Go for ccTLDs from countries that don’t like cooperating with the US.

  • Bum

    .uk
    why am I not surprised…

  • Violated0

    I have always liked how law enforcement action like this can he rather educational and since BT is not the only way to view media then let me complete a nice education lesson seeing how ICE has been so helpful to bring the topic to the front.

    People who own Satellite TV Receivers or Digital TVs with a Common Interface (CI) slot can buy such hardware like the Diablo WIFI CAM which can be made to wirelesses connect to your WIFI router and to the Internet.

    This can then be made to connect to a cccam Card Server like those seen here…
    http://www.cccam-server.info

    One server I see has 609 stated cards which means official subscription cards used to officially decode the stations, That is like every pay TV service around the entire planet. Now the cool part of this is that every subscription card for the same one pay tv service always provide the same decoded answer meaning we can pump that answer across the Internet and into your Diablo WIFI CAM or related hardware to have the stations clear locally!

    So name your local pay TV service and yes it could be decoded along as it does not use the new CI+ standard. Cardsharing.dk was one of the premium services but loads more of them about. We can now thank DHS’s ICE for bringing this interesting topic to our attention and not long before the Xmas holiday as well.

  • SimmWoo

    No doubt about it man, its getting crazy out there for sure. Those EU kangaroo courts are nuts!

    Anon-Goes.tk

  • SimmWoo

    No doubt its getting crazy out there, those EU kangaroo courts are ballz to the wallz.

    ano-net.tk

  • Guest

    I wonder how many of these websites were seized WITHOUT due process of US law and being legal in the country that they operate in?

    • Anonymous

      all the sites were seized without ‘due process’. what is worse is that sites outside the US jurisdiction, that may well have been legal in their own country, were shut as well, the US having been given the blessing of the EU! now the US has it’s foot in the door, running the whole Internet isn’t far away. Jeez, will the world regret that or what?

      • Fantastic

        Hollywood and the dupes of the government are like Neanderthals given a television. The Internet to them is a largely alien thing so they’d rather break it than figure out how to actually use it. I mean really many of those doddering jackasses were already old when Camcorders hit the market and its all so alien they should be forbidden from having any legislation to do with it.

  • hmmm

    fuck them tribler improve that client

  • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

    “Indeed, if The Pirate Bay domains were seized the site would simply return under a new one within minutes.”

    Probably, but each country with respect for laws and human rights for all citizens should not allow use of domain names for sites used for criminal activities like The Pirate Bay.

    I’m ashamed of living in Sweden. 6 years after the raid and all criminals haven’t served their time in jail yet, a .se domain is used and the site is still operated with the same results for the user as 2006 (or “better” seen from a pirate’s view).

    The servers moved out of Sweden, otherwise they were not able to continue with their criminal activity. Tracker or magnet links – doesn’t matter because the law is neutral with respect to used technology. I’m not sure were the main server is now, Cyberbunker in Holland was the latest I heard.

    • Anyone

      TPB has significant non-infringing uses, which is why it is legal

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        This has no relevance at all. If a drug dealer also sells candy, this doesn’t make the drug dealing legal. Remove everything that is non-infringing, then it’s legal.

        • Anyone

          so by your definition google, youtube and facebook are also illegal

        • Fredrika

          > “This has no relevance at all.”

          Correct, Anyone is actually wrong, the site is legal regardless, and the site only serves 100% non-infringing use of fully legal non-copyright torrent files.

          > “If a drug dealer also sells candy, this doesn’t make the drug dealing legal.”

          No one has ever claimed something so stupid. However, the candy store is still legal, regardless of any sales of drugs in it.

          > “Remove everything that is non-infringing, then it’s legal.”

          And there is nothing infringing on Pirate Bay. Had you understood anything about copyright laws you would have known this fact.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “so by your definition google, youtube and facebook are also illegal”

          No, they are moderated sites with 100% intention to obey the law since otherwise they’re not able to run their business. TPB on the other hand has no intention whatsoever to obey the law.

        • Fredrika

          > “No, they are moderated sites..”

          Because they unlike Pirate Bay offers copyrighted material.

          > “..with 100% intention to obey law..”

          Which Pirate Bay also has and always have had.

          > “..since otherwise they’re not able to run their business.”

          And Pirate Bay has no probblems running their business either.

          > “TPB on the other hand has no intention whatsoever to obey the law.”

          Another misinformed accusation that doesn’t correspond with reality.

        • Anyone

          I was simply quoting a SCOTUS verdict regarding other devices that could be used for “piracy” (a VCR in this case)

          granted, TPB is not under US law, and its legality was never challenged in court, so it is legal by default, but even if it was challenged it would have to be ruled legal, unless of course the judges are biased/paid off, like they were in the TPB trial

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “but even if it was challenged it would have to be ruled legal”

          I’m 100% sure of that it would be ruled illegal in most civilized countries.

          “unless of course the judges are biased/paid off, like they were in the TPB trial”

          On the contrary – ruled legal according to law. Time to face the facts, more and more people running pirate sites get convicted.

        • Fredrika

          > “I’m 100% sure of that it would be ruled illegal in most civilized countries.”

          Would that be the same degree of certainty that you felt when you claimed with 100% certainty that non-profit filesharing was illegal in Spain, which it obviously isn’t? Haven’t you made a fool of yourself enough times when commenting on copyright laws you know nothing about? For gods sake, you don’t even know what your own copyright law says.

          > “On the contrary – ruled legal according to law.”

          Things are not ruled legal. They are always legal, until they are ruled illegal.

          > “Time to face the facts..”

          Coming from the person who’s desperately afraid of commenting on the fact that the Pirate Bay trial was unconstitutional, and that the judges were, according to both the European and the Swedish constitution, biased

          > “..more and more people running pirate sites get convicted.”

          Well, since pirate sites aren’t needed at all for the entire earth’s population to be able to fileshare illegally, i really don’t see how that’s relevant?

        • Anyone

          but TPB does follow the law
          the law just doesn’t agree with your twisted view

          but still, explain how google, youtube and facebook are “legal” in your world, when they do have “pirated” content
          you are disagreeing with yourself

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “but still, explain how google, youtube and facebook are “legal” in your world, when they do have “pirated” content
          you are disagreeing with yourself”

          Because they have a system for moderation, where infringing contents can be reported and removed. TPB refuses to do that, with the exception of child porn when the police have confirmed that it is child porn in each individual case. And they don’t only ignore reports of infringing contents, they ridicule they reporters openly.

          By removing infringing contents in the TPB case, it’s the removal of torrent data that it’s important since they don’t store the actual content. Their illegal activities are connected to being accessory to copyright infringement, according to the Penal Code in Sweden, according to a sentence that can’t be overruled. They are of course illegal in many other countries with similar copyright laws.

        • Fredrika

          > “Because they have a system for moderation, where infringing contents can be reported and removed. TPB refuses to do that..”

          No, you don’t seem to understand that Pirate Bay has no infringing content, they only have non-copyright torrent files. Those does not constitute infringing content according to any legislation in the world.

          > “And they don’t only ignore reports of infringing contents, they ridicule they reporters openly.”

          Naturally, because there isn’t any infringing contents. When some ignorant idiots claim to see ghost or hear voices, they risk being ridiculed if they continue to harass people about their imaginary beliefs.

          > “By removing infringing contents in the TPB case, it’s the removal of torrent data that it’s important since they don’t store the actual contents.”

          Important according to your ignorant opinion? That does not correspond with the laws.

          > “Their illegal activities are connected to being accessory to copyright infringement, according to the Penal Code in Sweden, according to a sentence that can’t be overruled.”

          First of all the sentence tyou refer to has nothing to do with the current Pirate Bay, secondly those are not precedent sentences, thirdly it’s fully possible to overrule them.

          > “They are of course illegal in many other countries with similar copyright laws.”

          Please do not comment on legislations you know nothing about. On the contrary they are not considered illegal in one single country in the world.

        • Anyone

          so only sites where some corporations have the power to censor anything they don’t like (like the MegaSong) is a “legal” site?
          about 40% of all takedowns on Google are completely bogus, why are you in support of censoring for no reason at all?

          furthermore, TPB doesn’t have any illegal content, it merely has strings of Hexcodes that might or might not point to “illegal” content

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “furthermore, TPB doesn’t have any illegal content, it merely has strings of Hexcodes that might or might not point to “illegal” content”

          Doesn’t matter. A pimp may never even see the prosttutes, a drug dealer may never even touch the drugs etc. The drug laws in Sweden specifically addresses the illegal with being accessory to drug related crime but according to the Swedish Penal code, being accessory to any other crime is illegal under certain conditions, fully applicable to the TPB case.

        • Fredrika

          > “Doesn’t matter.”

          It most certainly does, because no court has ever ruled that offering non-copyrighted hexcodes is generally illegal.

        • Anyone

          what do drugs have to do with anything (besides that they should also be legalized)
          same with prostitution

          don’t deflect, why do you want the entire internet censored by failing corporations?
          when their takedowns are not even as accurate as simply flipping a coin to decide if it is “legal” or not

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “what do drugs have to do with anything (besides that they should also be legalized)
          same with prostitution”

          In this case I used those crimes to illustrate the principle of being accessory to committing a crime, may be easier to understand than in the TPB case. The court uses a similar way of reasoning also for being accessory to copyright infringement so the fact that the TPB site doesn’t store any the actual contents but only meta data doesn’t help, the persons running the TPB are still breaking the law (at least in Sweden).

        • Fredrika

          > “In this case I used those crimes to illustrate the principle of being accessory to committing a crime, may be easier to understand than in the TPB case.”

          Pirate Bay are not an accessory to any crimes, they are accessories to fully legal downloading of fully legal torrent files.

          > “Both the court uses a similar way of reasoning also for being accessory to copyright infringement so the fact that the TPB site doesn’t store any the actual contents but only meta data doesn’t help..”

          Your opinions on that is relevant how? It isn’t.

          > “the persons running the TPB are still breaking the law (at least in Sweden).”

          Your personal belief in that does not make it a legislative fact, and the judicial system disagrees with you.

        • Anyone

          so if I tell you that some guy behind the Walmart sells drugs I am committing a crime?
          interesting reasoning

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “so if I tell you that some guy behind the Walmart sells drugs I am committing a crime?”

          Do it once or twice and you’ll probably get away with it even if the police is aware of it. But do it repeatedly for money – then your’e a drug dealer even if you don’t even touch the drugs. At least according to Swedish law and probably also according to the law in many other countries. Just pointing to where the drugs are may otherwise be a way to avoid responsibility but it doesn’t work. The criminals may think they are smart but in most cases there are laws that still sees them as criminals. Just as in the TPB case.

        • Fredrika

          > “Do it once or twice and you’ll probably get away with it even i the police is aware of it.”

          Guessing again?

          > “But do it repeatedly for money..”

          Pirate Bay charges no money for any of their services.

          > “..then your’e a drug dealer even if you don’t even touch the drugs.”

          No. A drug dealer is the one that touches the drugs.

          > “At least according to Swedish law..”

          No.

          > “..and probably also according to the law in many other countries.”

          To what degree of certainty do you believe this? Would that be the same degree of certainty that you felt when you claimed with 100% certainty that non-profit filesharing was illegal in Spain, which it obviously isn’t?

          > “Just pointing to where the drugs are may otherwise be a way to avoid responsibility but it doesn’t work.”

          Pirate Bay directs no one in any direction. Pirate Bay gives a name without any directions whatsoever. The directions comes from the DNS servers and the trackers, but neither are operated by Pirate Bay

          > “The criminals may think they are smart but in most cases there are laws that still sees them as criminals. Just as in the TPB case.”

          That case has nothing to do with today’s Pirate Bay.

        • Guest

          Nejtillpirater logic: we have to ban cars because drug dealers use them to transport drugs. It doesn’t matter that they also have legal uses, that’s irrelevent!

        • Guest

          “Because they have a system for moderation, where infringing contents can be reported and removed. “

          But Facebook, Youtube, and Google are still plastered with shitloads of infringing content.

          So what you’re saying, Nej, is that you’d be totally okay with The Pirate Bay as long as they implemented a system for moderation that doesn’t really work and leaves the VAST majority of infringing content untouched. Just like the systems used by Facebook, Youtube, and Google do.

          You know, I’m starting to feel bad arguing with you. Like I’m kicking over a kid in a wheelchair.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          It does indeed have relevance since the “drug dealer” in this case should, according to you, be persecuted for selling candy, not for selling drugs.

          TPB is not offering anything illegal and so your “comparison” lacks a few very fundamental variables.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Guest

          “Nejtillpirater logic: we have to ban cars because drug dealers use them to transport drugs. It doesn’t matter that they also have legal uses, that’s irrelevent!”

          Of course not, why?

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Scary

          “It does indeed have relevance since the “drug dealer” in this case should, according to you, be persecuted for selling candy, not for selling drugs.”

          Another straw man argument. “According to you” for something I’ve never said.

          A drug dealer selling candy will be prosecuted for dealing drugs, not selling candy. But when arrested, any child “depending on” his candy will find that it’s not possible to buy that candy from him anymore. Persons using TPB for legal purposes – non copyrighted files – are doing this on their on risk. TPB can be shut down in any minute – not because the legal files, because the persons running TPB being accessory to copyright infringement. I’d said that it would be really stupid to make yourself dependent on TPB for legal purposes, use a perfectly legal torrent site instead.

        • Fredrika

          > “Persons using TPB for legal purposes..”

          It’s impossible to use Pirate bay for illegal purposes.

          > “..non copyrighted files..”

          There are no copyright files on Pirate Bay. Only fully legal non-copyrighted torrent files.

          > “are doing this on their on risk.”

          Just as you are using wordpress on your own risk?

          > “TPB can be shut down in any minute..”

          As can any site in the world.

          > “..because the persons running TPB being accessory to copyright infringement.”

          Which they aren’t according to the relevant judicial system.

          > “I’d said that it would be really stupid to make yourself dependent on TPB for legal purposes, use a perfectly legal torrent site instead.”

          Pirate Bay is a fully legal torrent site.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          @nejtillpirater

          “Another straw man argument. “According to you” for something I’ve never said.”

          Actually, yes. What you said amounts exactly to a candy store being arrested for selling candy. You see, TPB still is not providing a criminal service, is not operating illegally, and is not being an “accessory” to any criminal activity.

          So my argument is not a straw man – your refutal, however, does fit the definition. Once again you are caught in that behaviour known as “lying through your teeth”.

          And TPB could not be shut down the very next minute unless the law is radically changed. All it does is supply magnet links which carry the same type of information (less, even), than the official EAN numbers branding copyrighted works do.

          Let me ask you this. Should the MPAA’s official network site IMDB be shut down because it provides more information than TPB does, relevant for searching and up/downloading copyrighted information?

          Should a public library?

          Your problem, NTP, is that you have managed to talk yourself out of any venue of argument possible – legal, moral and evidentiary. And it shows. All you’re left with is – as usual – to discredit your opposition rather than even trying to dispute the actual facts being brought forward.

          One guess as to how that pans out. I’ll tell you this much. If even one pirate in a hundred is using your words the way I do your arguments alone have by now become our biggest recruitment tool. Your dishonesty is that blatant.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Scary

          “You see, TPB still is not providing a criminal service, is not operating illegally, and is not being an “accessory” to any criminal activity.”

          Let’s face facts – the court sentence, not your wishful thinking.

          “Let me ask you this. Should the MPAA’s official network site IMDB be shut down because it provides more information than TPB does, relevant for searching and up/downloading copyrighted information?”

          IMDB has no hash information to a pirate copy, required for download.

          “Should a public library?”

          Why? A public library has nothing to do with piracy.

          Still having serious problems understanding the laws involved?
          Doesn’t matter in court, they have to follow the law, a fact that you’ll never understand.

          “Your dishonesty is that blatant.”

          Your and Fredrika’s opinion has no value in reality since you refuse to understand the most basic legal reasoning or even technology. Laws and technology in combination and you’re completely lost.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          @nejtillpirater

          “Let’s face facts – the court sentence, not your wishful thinking.”

          Good idea to face facts – shame that you won’t. Since the court has NO ruling on TPB today and seems unlikely to issue one under any current legal paradigm, that rather sinks your entire case. Only you could do that much harm to your entire standpoint with one short sentence.

          Once again, NTP, you are confusing your own rather irrelevant opinion with what the law and the courts actually says. Until a court judges TPB illegal, it (and it’s operation) is in fact explicitly legal.

          “IMDB has no hash information to a pirate copy, required for download.”

          No, what IMDB does supply is actually far more information than what, for instance, a magnet link does. Hence IMDB does indeed supply far more information than what TPB does. As does any library index. The question stands.

          “Why? A public library has nothing to do with piracy.”

          A library index, similar to IMDB, carries far more information to uniquely identify a file than does a magnet link. So a library does indeed supply far more information than TPB, usable for the same purposes. It just isn’t used very often for the purpose.
          yet.

          “Still having serious problems understanding the laws involved?
          Doesn’t matter in court, they have to follow the law, a fact that you’ll never understand.”

          TPB is still by any law legal. You are – once again – confusing your own opinion with the word of a judge and the letter of law. Now, You can make the claim that you think TPB should be illegal all you like.

          But it still isn’t. See how that goes? Claiming it is otherwise either makes you delusional or a liar. Again.

          “Your and Fredrika’s opinion has no value in reality since you refuse to understand the most basic legal reasoning or even technology. Laws and technology in combination and you’re completely lost.”

          Says the man who has for four years in a row on other blogs and in a hundred posts alone on this board expressly demonstrated an absolute and utter ignorance of both law and technology. I and Fredrika can – and have – backed up our claims numerous times with facts readily available from online sources and otherwise. You have, in not one single post in over four years on anti-pirate tirades managed to demonstrate your claims with a single salient fact other than your personal opinion.

          That you still claim stubbornly that the law should conform to your personal desires makes me wonder about your sanity. Take your case to a judge. He will look at you funny and tell you otherwise.

          In the one instance where you tried to google your way through basic command lines, you even got them hilariously wrong, to the great delight of the IT guy you were trying to demonstrate your “competence” to.

          You should realize – eventually – that you can not base a successful propaganda stratagem on lying. Especially not when the truth is so readily available to everyone reading your claims. Until you do, I’ll just store that little gem of yours to show wherever and whenever I need to demonstrate what an “anti-pirate” looks like.

          This time in the folder “Why copyright maximalists are like strident, ignorant children”.

    • Fredrika

      > “Probably, but each country with respect for laws and human rights for all citizens should not allow use of domain names for sites used for criminal activities like The Pirate Bay.”

      You seem confused, Pirate Bay is not used for any criminal activities? Pirate Bay is an according to all relevant judicial systems fully legal search engine, that is used for fully legal hosting, indexing, and downloading of fully legal non-copyrighted torrent files.

      There’s nothing illegal about their use of domain names.

      > “I’m ashamed of living in Sweden. 6 years after the raid and all criminals haven’t served their time in jail yet..”

      A normal person would be more ashamed of the fact that the trial was unconstitutional, and that every single judge involved was, according to the European and Swedish constitution, biased. But maybe not fascists.

      > “..a .se domain is used..”

      Which is fully legal.

      > “..and the site is still operated with the same results for the user as 2006..”

      Incorrect. Pirate Bay offers a different result now than then. For the result for the end user to be the same, he has on his own take measures that are completely out of Pirate Bay’s control.

      > “(or “better” seen from a pirate’s view).”

      What’s wrong with things becoming better?

      > “The servers moved out of Sweden, otherwise they were not able to continue with their criminal activity.”

      First of all do not pretend that you have any actual knowledge of where the servers are hosted. Secondly, Pirate Bay’s activities are by all relevant judicial systems deemed fully legal, not criminal.

      > “Tracker or magnet links – doesn’t matter because the law is neutral with respect to used technology.”

      Please do not make statements regarding any laws technical neutrality, because you do not understand what that actually means. However, you are right that tracker or magnet links makes no difference to if the site is legal, because it is regardless.

      > “I’m not sure were the main server is now..”

      Yet only seconds ago you made claims regarding where they weren’t?

      > “..Cyberbunker in Holland was the latest I heard.”

      The mere fact that you hear things does not necessarily make what you heard a fact, regardless of if anyone else could hear the same thing, or if no one else than you could here those voices.

    • Violated0

      The Pirate Bay owners during the trail of TPB 4 did changes to the site to remove issues that were highlighted during the trial including spinning off the tracker to be an independent service.

      Since then they have only worked to improve the legality further with the most recent change being the removal of .torrent files when they now only serve Magnet links and Hash keys.

      It would be very hard to class this site as unlawful. They host no copyrighted material at all meaning they have no need to comply with DMCA law or the EU version. All they do provide is news, reviews, chat, information and numbers.

      So if anyone does doubt the legality of this site then it would require a whole new trial to find that out. I would however think it would be very difficult indeed for the copyright cartels to get something to stick.

      Not that it would be a good idea to try and attack this site anyway where since now they are on the cloud and encrypted then they can easily move between cloud providers. Even if they could take down all copies and hardware then plenty of people about have code copies and there is the final eternal TPB doomsday version. It would also upset millions of users.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        “Since then they have only worked to improve the legality further with the most recent change being the removal of .torrent files when they now only serve Magnet links and Hash keys.”

        As far as we know, the site is not operated from Sweden anymore, if it were and proof of this was available to the police, I’m 100% sure that the persons responsible for it (probably the same persons as before except of Carl Lundström) would be sentenced to similar punishments. Seen from the user, clicking on a link found on the TPB page (magnet or not), the result is the same as before – the bittorrent client sooner or later starts downloading the searched content. The accessory to copyright infringement is basically the same as before, a court would definitely come to that conclusion.

        “They host no copyrighted material at all meaning they have no need to comply with DMCA law or the EU version. All they do provide is news, reviews, chat, information and numbers.”

        Didn’t matter for TPB 2006, doesn’t matter today. At least one more similar site has been convicted in Sweden and there’s also a parallel case, drogforum.net, where the owner of the site got a jail sentence, in this case the site only worked as a discussion forum for buyers and sellers of illegal drugs. The owner was responsible for the site. The fact that he never touched any drugs (at least was not convicted for that) didn’t matter, not even the fact that it was user driven and he claimed that he didn’t have time to moderate. In fact, running a site with illegal purpose, not moderating, was also regarded as illegal. If the owner can’t comply with this – don’t run the site! Same for TPB.

        “Not that it would be a good idea to try and attack this site anyway where since now they are on the cloud and encrypted then they can easily move between cloud providers.”

        Still illegal, cloud or not. The encrypted traffic can be traced to the cloud provider, perhaps sending them to jail also. Storing illegal encrypted data is similar to carrying a closed bag with unknown contents (drugs, weapons…) to the airplane. A legal cloud provider must ensure that the users follow the law and if the cloud provider stores data for the TPB they are fully aware of what’s going on. Technology will only buy some time, it will never make it legal.

        • Anyone

          “Didn’t matter for TPB 2006, doesn’t matter today.”
          so basically you are saying the courts did not and will not follow the law?

          finally we agree that the TPB trial was completely biased and not based on actual law

        • Fredrika

          > “As far as we know..”

          Who are we? You know nothing.

          > “..the site is not operated from Sweden anymore..”

          Then why do you reference the Swedish sentences??????

          > “..if it were and proof of this was available to the police, I’m 100% sure that the persons responsible for it (probably the same persons as before except of Carl Lundström) would be sentenced to similar punishments.”

          Would that be the same degree of certainty that you felt when you claimed with 100% certainty that non-profit filesharing was illegal in Spain, which it obviously isn’t?

          > “Seen from the user, clicking on a link found on the TPB page (magnet or not), the result is the same as before..”

          It is not.

          > “..the bittorrent client sooner or later starts downloading the searched content.”

          Not thanks to Pirate Bay. The users have to take other measures on their own for that to happen.

          > “The accessory to copyright infringement..”

          What copyright infringement?

          > “..is basically the same as before..”

          Your personal opinion on that is relevant how exactly?

          > “..a court would definitely come to that conclusion.”

          Your personal belief on that is relevant how exactly?

          > “..doesn’t matter today.”

          Your personal opinion on that is relevant how exactly?

          > “In fact, running a site with illegal purpose, not moderating, was also regarded as illegal. If the owner can’t comply with this – don’t run the site! Same for TPB.”

          Pirate Bay’s fully legal purpose is to run a fully legal site.

          > “Still illegal, cloud or not.”

          Not according to the law.

          > “The encrypted traffic can be traced to the cloud provider, perhaps sending them to jail also.”

          To what percentage of certainty do you believe this? Last time it was 100% you were 100% wrong, remember?

          > “Storing illegal encrypted data..”

          Torrent files are not illegal.

          > “A legal cloud provider must ensure that the users follow the law..”

          Must according to who? Not according to the law. You seem to confuse the provider with the police..

          > “..and if the cloud provider stores data for the TPB they are fully aware of what’s going on.”

          Fully aware of legal activities.

          > “Technology will only buy some time, it will never make it legal.”

          Nobody has ever claimed something so stupid. Why do you resort to straw-man arguments?

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “finally we agree that the TPB trial was completely biased and not based on actual law”

          The court acted correctly according to the law. The major problem – not acceptable in a modern democracy like Sweden – was that it took six years to put the first person in jail and even today, two of them have not served their time in jail. And during the time between the raid and the final sentence, several other pirate sites were able to operate due to the uncertainties before the final sentence. And too many kids in Sweden got the bad habit of breaking the law on a daily basis since the probability of getting caught and convicted as a downloader has been extremely low.

        • Fredrika

          > “..the court acted correctly according to the law.”

          No, the courts disregarded both the European and the Swedish constitution. That does not qualify as acting correctly according to the law. It in facts qualifies as operating in an unconstitutional manner.

          > “The major problem – not acceptable in a modern democracy like Sweden – was that it took six years to put the first person in jail and even today, two of them have not served their time in jail.”

          Your opinion on that being a problem does not make it an actual problem.

          > “And during the time between the raid and the final sentence, several other pirate sites were able to operate due to the uncertainties before the final sentence.”

          That’s not a problem.

          > “And too many kids in Sweden got the bad habit of breaking the law on daily basis since the probability of getting caught and convicted as a downloader has been extremely low.”

          Kids are usually taught in school that it’s mathematically a god habit to disobey illegitimate legislation that society has no proven need for, to avoid it causing further harm to society.

        • Violated0

          The results would NOT be the same because the service is different and TPB is now one of the most law compatible BT sites around.

          I guess you missed reading up on the whole TPB 4 trial when they were convicted of assisting the infringing downloads because they were also operating the tracker which assisted people with the download. So with no tracker now linked then your whole “it is the same as before” case has been destroyed on the one key critical point on why they were convicted!

          People who visit the site only see public information which is not copyright, patent or trademark protected. Should you use the numbers to manually (your choice) link to a download then all the information downloads is a .torrent file which is not copyrighted.

          Sure you may end up infringing copyright in the end but guess what? You the user would have done that. The site did not link to any media protected by copyright and they certainly never helped you download.

          They cannot trace the location of the TPB because they make use of front servers to pass all the data through. These front servers do not even come with HDDs so there are no logs or information to be had. So if the police take down a front server then there is only another front server behind it.

          Then why do you mention drugs and weapons in a discussion about copyright and the law?

        • Guest

          @Nejtillpirater

          If you find it unacceptable to be in a democracy then do the democratic thing and vote against it, you moron. That’s what you keep telling us to do! Or do you not take your own advice?

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “Still illegal, cloud or not.”

          So basically what you are saying is, once again, that your opinion carries more weight than law.

          Once again, Nejtillpirater, you are lying through your teeth. Or suffering from delusions. It’s really one or the other at this point.

          Now go away and do a cursory study on basic law and come back when you actually have a basic grasp of the fundamentals. Oh, but I forget, according to previous statements made by you you are already an expert in both law and IT. Was that a delusion as well? Or just a plain lie?

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Guest

          “If you find it unacceptable to be in a democracy then do the democratic thing and vote against it, you moron. That’s what you keep telling us to do! Or do you not take your own advice?”

          I voted FOR democracy, representing the 99.35% of the citizens that didn’t vote for the Swedish Pirate Party in the latest elections. 0.65% voted for anarchy.

        • Fredrika

          > “I voted FOR democracy..”

          Actually, no, you did not, you voted for a party that clearly tries to dismantle democracy.

          > “..representing the 99.35% of the citizens..”

          No, you obviously don’t master math either. 99.35% of the voters that didn’t vote blank.

          > “0.65% voted for anarchy.”

          Are you stupid? None of the legislative changes that the Pirate Party advocates equals anarchy? Read up on anarchy, would you, before using the word any further.

    • UraPhake

      “…should not allow use of domain names for sites used for criminal activities like The Pirate Bay.”

      What “criminal activities” would The Pirate Bay be commiting?

      Be explicit or I will sic a mean little girl upon you! :)

      • Fredrika

        > “Be explicit or I will sic a mean little girl upon you! :)”

        Wtf, do i look like a dog!?!? =)

        Powerpuff Girls respond of their own free will to all evilness, injustice and inhumane monsters, such as NoToABillionPeople, and the only one that can call upon them is The Mayor!!

        Well actually, there was an incident with the Gangreen Gang, but let’s not talk about that embarrassing episode any more.. Watch it instead!!

        http://www.google.com/search?q=powerpuff+girls+telephonies&num=100&newwindow=1&safe=off&gbv=2&tbm=vid&source=lnt&tbs=dur:m&sa=X

        • Your Smart

          Either you are a teen or you are a parent of a teen using the account, the reason I say that is because you are too smart for a little kid. Am I right or am I wrong?

        • Fredrika

          > “Either you are a teen or you are a parent of a teen using the account, the reason I say that is because you are too smart for a little kid.”

          Aren’t there always exceptions to the rules? There’s even a name for the concept, child prodigy.

          > “Am I right or am I wrong?”

          You’re wrong to focus so much on my age and connection to the teens, you’d be right to focus more on fighting the forces of evil, and flagging troll comments!!

        • Anyone

          powerpuff girls are great for all ages

        • Fredrika

          > “powerpuff girls are great for all ages”

          As much as i love PPG, i’m not sure i would sign of on that, younger kids might take the wrong message with them, because there is a lot of almost mandatory violence in every single episode, as in smashing the enemy senseless regardless of what they have done. Simply apprehending the enemy is never the solution, and violence seems to be answer to almost everything.. =)

          But then again it’s the same concept that Tom & Jerry has used since the 40′s..(which just happens to be my other favourite cartoon show together with PPG)

          However there is a lot of pop culture references in the show that i doubt smaller kids understand, so to fully appreciate all aspects of PPG i think you have to be at least over 15? Unless you are a child prodigy of course, with a special interest in pop culture!! ;)

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          @Your Smart

          “…because you are too smart for a little kid.”

          I’ve been wondering the same over the years I’ve seen Fredrika sally forth to do battle with ignorance, willful stupidity and wishful thinking. I’m torn. On one hand I’m inclined to want there to be some hoary old gent or lady with thirty years of networking/legal experience under his/her belt behind that pseudonym.

          And then I think of a number of Young Pirates who at the tender age of 20 are already driven, highly educated, spunky, and well steeped in cynical netiquette…

          Suffice to say us old folks often do not give near enough credence to the young.

        • Anyone

          of course you don’t understand all the subtleties of intelligent cartoons like PPG when you are younger, but you are entertained by it nonetheless, that’s what defines a quality program, it has something for everyone

    • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

      “I’m ashamed of living in Sweden.”

      I’m sure Sweden is ashamed of having you live there as-well.

    • Guest

      “Probably, but each country with respect for laws and human rights for all citizens should not allow use of domain names for sites used for criminal activities like The Pirate Bay.”

      Implying that seizing a domain name without due process demonstrates a respect for the law and human rights? Oh, Nejtillpirater. You’re delightfully retarded.

      “I’m ashamed of living in Sweden.”

      Don’t be ashamed of living in Sweden, be ashamed of living in Sweden and doing nothing to fight agaisnt its unlawful, corrupted corporate-sockpuppet government.

      “6 years after the raid and all criminals haven’t served their time in jail yet”

      What? But you wrote many giant wall-of-text comments where you ADAMANTLY insisted that Carl Lundstrom had been sent to jail(which he hadn’t). Do you finally admit that you were wrong and basing your shit on nothing?

      Anyway, THE COPYRIGHT INDUSTRY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING THE PIRATE BAY INVINCIBLE. You have them to thank. =D

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        “What? But you wrote many giant wall-of-text comments where you ADAMANTLY insisted that Carl Lundstrom had been sent to jail(which he hadn’t”

        According to a large number of articles in Swedish media, he has served his jail sentence. One of the articles claimed that the last part of his sentence was served using electronic tagging, but not saying anything about the first part so the natural assumption is that this was in jail. What other information do you have on the subject? Source?

    • Guest

      If you’re that ashamed and dissatisfied then get the fuck out of the country. Man up and deal with it. Or is that only for filthy pirates and not industry whiners like you?

      Move to Finland; I hear they arrest children even if they don’t end up downloading stuff. I think you can masturbate to that, Nej.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        Why should I leave the country? Only 0.65% of the citizens voted for the Swedish Pirate Party in the latest elections, I’m representing the other 99.35%.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “I’m representing the other 99.35%.”

          Odd. Every non-pirate I’ve shown cherry-pickings of your words so far has been very clear that you aren’t speaking for any of them.

          Indeed, my boss had a good laugh as well.

          I suppose by now that means that somehow NONE of the 99.35% that you represent work at my job or belong to the circles I move in. That’s a very rare coincidence since that’s a very scattered sampling.

          On the other hand I have heard no end of pro-pirate sympathizers who fully agree with the pirates on every issue the pirates represent but aren’t willing to abandon, say, the question on the economy or tax distribution over it.

          And if we are to believe just about EVERY forum on the net, apparently you are one out of a very very few people you claim to represent who can even use the internet.

        • Anon

          “I’m representing the other 99.35%.”

          Dude.

    • Trespass

      Hey Net– Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Sweden make sharing completely legal until the US intervened, bullied and threatened sanctions, then paid obscene amounts of money to get the Swedish government to think like the US, better yet, like the MAFIAA? Didn’t most of it’s citizens object to this action?

      Guess I question your ethical and moral “holier than thou” attitude coming from a country that couldn’t care less about filesharing for private use until MADE to harass it’s citizens by a third party.

      That’s what I remember reading… You must have drank some serious kool-aid, along with many others…

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        According to Nejtillpirater the world is filled with irrelevant pro-pirate propaganda. Such as the German Constitutional court, the books of law, and electrons.

        Wikileaks certainly classes among the fiendish pro-pirate organizations all aiming at undermining Nejtillpirater’s reasons to live, ever since they published the embassy cables where it was stated black on white what Sweden had done in order to appease US demands.

    • ScrewEwe2

      I woud have to think that most Swedes are also ashamed that you live in Sweden. 9 out of 10 Dental professionals would say that you can get whiter teeth by brushing your teeth 3 times a day and after meals, than by sucking the dicks of the copyright cartels. Of course, if you kept your mouth shut, most Swedes wouldn’t know that you have an unhealthy outlook and bad teeth. Being a brown-nose to the copyright cartels isn’t healthy either.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      “Probably, but each country with respect for laws and human rights for all citizens should not allow use of domain names for sites used for criminal activities like The Pirate Bay.”

      You imply that the country in question has a choice? In very real, very practical terms, you can have an internet or no internet. If there is an internet, individuals will certainly communicate just as they wish.

      Your idea of a country “allowing” the use of “domains” is as quirky as stating that the country should “allow” the use of “certain languages”. Or telling citizens they weren’t allowed to speak to certain groups of other citizens.
      Once again, if you knew anything – even the barest basics of IT – then you wouldn’t even post such illogical drivel.

      As for the rest I’m not at all surprised that you once again completely fail to grasp the basic fundamentals of law as well. Since TPB is not illegal, since the activity driven on the site isn’t criminal, what you are after is still comparable to wanting to ban pen and paper because that “technology” is still used frequently in hate mail and harrassment.

  • anon

    They start to have some problem seizing domains on demand as some politicians have make their voices heard. Since SOPA blackout, it’s has slow down.

    If you think that domain seizing WITHOUT DUE PROCESS will be a common practice in Europe; the land that reject ACTA, where politician are less corrupted and paid than in the US, you can still sleep well, at least, for now.

    Dont forget that in Europe, there are still democracy (at some points)…

    • MadAsASnake

      I tend to trust European judiciaries with this stuff far more than the US ones. A couple of cases like Roja Directa and the authorities will be held to account. In the US, the authorities have run amok.

      • Anyone

        sadly only higher courts show any kind of competence

        lower courts (like the one in Hamburg) is either clueless or completely in the hands of the MAFIAA

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  • Guest

    What happened to the Open Root Server Network? it was cool when it was up, is there any other DNS networks like that, that don’t adhere to ICANN?

    • Techanon

      openNIC?

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  • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

    Government agencies have realized that the strategy of pursuing Domain take-downs on a national basis is a complete failure, so they have been working with other nation state counter-parties on a global plan.

    Not new; but, seriously threatening.

    The most serious threat behind this intensifying Government activity lies in the fundamental error that is increasingly institutionalized by these enforcement actions: The greatest immediate source of strength for Copyright Holders is the unvetted presumption that every private interest pecuniary complaint from Copyright Holders presented prior to Judicial Adjudication is the legitimate charter priority of Homeland Security.

    This perspective has turned National enforcement agencies into the bill collectors of private Copyright Holders.

    Can you get ICE to take down half the Internet on the basis of your un-litigated civil allegations?

    Yet, these false priorities have NOT been adequately re-assessed partly because of the inertia inherent in past practice: The more involved Homeland Security is in pro-copyright enforcement the more entangled it becomes in the privileges of the existing Copyright regime.

    How can this dynamic be reversed?

    Suggestion: Take heart from the brilliant analysis that was recently produced by the Republican Committee Study Group. It is the best evidence before us to date, that these false priorities are being at least questioned (indeed, questioned very intelligently) at the highest levels of our legislatures. We can bet dollars to doughnuts that the Appellate Judiciary is not leading the rear in these inquiries.

    It is up to us to ensure at every opportunity that these re-assessments gain traction.

    Why?

    Because it will take a radically new understanding of existing Copyright Law to force DOJ, FBI, ICE, and all the other tentacles of Homeland Security, to abdicate their private party Bill Collector on behalf of Copyright Holders status.

    • Who

      “The greatest immediate source of strength for Copyright Holders is the unvetted presumption that every private interest pecuniary complaint from Copyright Holders presented prior to Judicial Adjudication is the legitimate charter priority of Homeland Security.”

      if this is the case then “Homeland Security” is an utter failure! as copyright infringement has nothing to do with what that system was implemented for.

      btw in case no one knows what Homeland Security was started for…..TERRORISM. as in other people wanting to do HARM to other people.
      this so called copyright infringement does not fall in to that category.

  • Who

    @Nejtillpirater: just STFU for for fuck sakes. you don’t know what you are talking about. besides…..Google/YouTube are one in the same and YES they DO TO break the law all the time and so does the RIAA/MPAA, so please STFU!

    • Anon

      Could you please offer examples of how Google and YouTUBE “break the law”? That’s a big claim and I doubt you can back it up.

      Also, if your claim that the industry organizations also “break the law”, 1) please give real world examples of this and if your examples are true, and 2) why do you suppose internet freedom groups like EFF and Public Knowledge—both top heavy with well educated and connected lawyers—don’t say a word.

      I’m just saying.
      I’m guessing you don’t know the law, you don’t understand at all what’s really at stakes, you have no idea how guidelines like the DMCA preserve Google and YouTUBE as they should and the bigger point is that your head is probably so far up your ass your eyes will be stained brown if you ever see daylight again.

      • Anyone

        for example during the whole SOPA/PIPA debacle Chris Dodd openly threatened congress to do as he says or he will no longer bribe them
        of course, he didn’t get prosecuted because he continued to bribe and most of the assholes in congress are his old buddies

        furthermore the MAFIAA constantly sends DMCA takedowns that are not valid (about 40%), the most prominent example being the MegaSong
        in theory they committed perjury, but they simply blame it on the computer and nothing is done about it for similar reasons as above

        Google broke the law when their Streetview cars collected WiFi data from the houses they passed
        or more recently they have been sentenced to a small fine for the “Safari Cookie”

        • Anon

          Ah, your one of those “they bribe their way out of it” guys, that’s your answer to everything. Justice officials are charged with limiting the copying and distribution of infringing goods. That’s their job. Don’t like the job they are charged to do? Cry me a river. And where’s overwhelming in-their face public support for consumers being defrauded with the copying and distribution of goods intended for sale? Is this really the best you’ve got? Why isn’t there an educated and adult presentation of your so-called facts? I’ll tell you why. You don’t have the facts. You think it’s the legislature that indicts and tries, “Chris Dodd’s buddies”, when it’s actually the Justice Department.

          When you are up to speed c’mon back.

        • Anyone

          how are consumers being defrauded by free copies?

          if someone would sell cheap knockoffs that are meant to fool people I’d understand this point
          but if it is a perfect copy that is free, I see no fraud
          heck, even if it is a cheap knockoff that is clearly marked as such there is no issue

        • Anon

          “furthermore the MAFIAA constantly sends DMCA takedowns that are not valid (about 40%)”

          This is a good point. It’s perjury but they can get away with it so they do it. And Chris Dodd did say what he said, I’ll admit that.

        • Rich332

          “Justice officials are charged with limiting the copying and distribution of infringing goods.”

          No they’re not. That’s also not what he’s talking about.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        “Also, if your claim that the industry organizations also “break the law”, 1) please give real world examples of this…”

        http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Payment_pending;_Canadian_recording_industry_set_for_six_billion_penalties%3F

        There you go, for one juicy sample. The CRIA did, for 20 years in a row, sell upwards to 300,000 songs to which they had no license, on a commercial scale, while steadfastly refusing to provide the creators of the music – the copyright holders – with one single cent. By the industry’s own prior assessment the minimum damages that should be awarded were six billion dollars.

        And that’s just the one case which made headlines and made it to court. One reason given in preliminary hearings was that this operating model was status quo and had been so for a long time. As it was assumed that the copyright holders would be the ones initiating legal action, nothing was done to change the model.

        As for your second argument – the EFF has raised the hue and cry numerous times. you should read their papers on the subject.

      • Who

        I know the law and I know it better than you do. I have friends that work for REAL law firms and also do my own REAL research.

        well if you actually did look in to TRUTH you would know. so you need to STFU just the same.

  • ThisSuck

    Meanly China is gorging herself in US and EU companies that relocated there, leaving poor US and EU with only copyrights and patents to try and produce some money

    Europol should really dedicate their time investigating the Bankers and market speculators then doing this type of actions (principally because US is involved and it’s already made clear that US make 1 right seizure to 100 Wrong seizures)

    Also the domains .be, .dk, .fr, .ro and .uk are by this order 1, 2, 3 and 5 countries that lick US nasty parts, 4 just read this and you’ll understand http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18889374

    And Nejtillpirater your sounding more and more like the Anders Behring Breivik of copyright please calm down and bit and chill before the disaster happens and you go shooting little 9 year old girls because they downloaded a song from TPB

  • Guest

    I hope you lot all have TPB’s IP address bookmarked

    • Violated0

      Dream on.

  • Angry

    if you want to take torrent sites or private torrent sites off the Internet thats your business, but when you mess with my streaming sites then i get mad!

  • Vincent Giannell

    I suggest someone should sue these guys and claim that seizing domain names are illegal and must pay a few million dollars in damages for it.

  • ABCq

    Could someone shed some light on .ru

    • Anon

      No good – the .ru registry “seized” torrents.ru (now rutracker.org)

  • CopyingHerecopyingThere

    so what. its only show how usa is fucked up and corupted, fighting non profit war.noprofit copyright never existed and will never exist. was the same with casettes cd dvds, radio.they always was copied no matter what.they will only demage they reputation and buisness inside they country by making this little war.

  • chronoss

    time ot pass around custom hosts files….
    yup and crack any os that prevents that…
    nuff said and good waste a money boneheads…we already do it…enjoy fucktards we got our own names foreveryhting.com

  • TEAM AMERICA

    FUCK YEEEE TEAM AMERICA YEEEE…At it again I see.

  • Guest32

    @Nejtillpirater

    “Still illegal, cloud or not. The encrypted traffic can be traced to the cloud provider, perhaps sending them to jail also. Storing illegal encrypted data
    is similar to carrying a closed bag with unknown contents (drugs, weapons…) to the airplane. A legal cloud provider must ensure that the users follow
    the law and if the cloud provider stores data for the TPB they are fully aware of what’s going on. Technology will only buy some time, it will never make
    it legal.”

    You are contradicting yourself. If the contents is encrypted, and the cloud provider has no possibility to verify the illegality of it, there can be no knowledge.

    Knowledge requires an ability to verify what is in the datastream.
    Again you are lying. Even the drug laws which are stupid in their own right do not impose strict liability on carriers of bags with unknown contents.

    The case concerning the drug forum was admittedly bad, but it only wend the way it did because the owner had the ability to control the forum. And even the police admitted that the proof is not easy.

    • Wallace

      Nejtillpirater, you’re just making shit up. I know TorrentFreak is troll friendly but even we tune out after awhile.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        “Nejtillpirater” – translated from swedish, “Notopirates” has been going on for four years and then some on the swedish blogs. Most of what he’s currently saying he made up three years ago, and has been posting it ever since, in the apparent hope that no one in possession of actual fact will refute him.

        It never works. But then again, he never learns either.

  • 1hhh1

    This is about counterfeiting not filesharing.I know of several deaths caused by FAKE counterfeited medicines,including insulin’s,and serious health problems caused by FAKE cigarettes that’s almost indistinguishable from real brands,and then there’s the counterfeit engine parts,mobile phones that explode,electrical goods ect.You name it the counterfeiters can do it. These raids are necessary.

  • Guest32

    @Nejtillpirater

    “”so by your definition google, youtube and facebook are also illegal”"

    “No, they are moderated sites with 100% intention to obey the law since otherwise they’re not able to run their business. TPB on the other hand has no intention
    whatsoever to obey the law.!”

    That is a laughable claim coming from a copyright maximalist. You are probably not aware of the claim that Google and Youtube profit from copyright infringement.

    This is not just what pirates argue in order to whitewash TPB but an argument coming from copyright maximalists on your side.

    Without Google there would not be easy searchable indexes of torrents and torrent sites. Google goes beyond what the actual law requires, and still that ain’t enough to please your side.
    You should really decide which argument or “logic” you are pursuing. Is TPB bad because it it does not act like Google by acting on notices, or is Google equally as bad as TPB because a lot of infringing content can be found through Google searching?

    “”but still, explain how google, youtube and facebook are “legal” in your world, when they do have “pirated” content
    you are disagreeing with yourself”"

    “Because they have a system for moderation, where infringing contents can be reported and removed. TPB refuses to do that, with the exception of child porn
    when the police have confirmed that it is child porn in each individual case. And they don’t only ignore reports of infringing contents, they ridicule
    he reporters openly.”

    Fine, so if TPB like Bitsnoop and other torrent sites starts to obey notice and takedown by blocking the same identical info hash, you would find the site completely legal?

  • Guest32

    @Guest

    “But Facebook, Youtube, and Google are still plastered with shitloads of infringing content.

    So what you’re saying, Nej, is that you’d be totally okay with The Pirate Bay as long as they implemented a system for moderation that doesn’t really work
    and leaves the VAST majority of infringing content untouched. Just like the systems used by Facebook, Youtube, and Google do.”

    Copyright maximalists never get enough. They lack any honesty and logical consistency.

    Note that NTP now argues that Google and Youtube are fully legal sites, because they act on notice and takedown. But does he really mean it?

    You bet not. Copyright maximalists can live with notice takedown, because it allows them to kill any user generated content with just a well formed copyright notice.

    Google, Youtube and Dropbox are big, but don’t for one moment fool yourself to think that copyright maximalists are willing to settle for the current notice and takedown regime that still grants them much of what they want.

    For while copyright maximalists like NTP opportunisticly invoke the notice and takedown as baseline for what is “legal” and “respectable” the truth sometimes slip through. Even if TPB, Rapidshare and all other sites allowing user generated contents instituted a DMCA notice and takedown system, that wouldn’t be enough in the long run.

    In the Retroshare thread NTP claims that anyone transporting encrypted data is strictly liable for the contents, regardless of the practical ability to verify its legality. But in this and other threads about torrent sites, it’s the knowledge which should be the trigger for liability.

    This is police state legality on steroids. You’ll be nailed if you know what you are transporting but even if proof of knowledge is absent, and you could prove by absolute certainty that you had no ability to verify that the stream of 1s and 0s was actual child pornography, you will still be nailed as an accessory to a crime.

  • ndmushroom

    Hey, TF, how about a “tools to avoid internet censorship” article?
    Various alternatives have been suggested, in this thread and by TF a long time ago (Remember the .p2p domain, 2 years ago? Remember ODDNS, 6 months ago?), it would be useful to compile them all into one article (easier use for future reference).

  • Anon

    What about .CM (Cameroon) domains?

    They don’t seem to care about much. They let Kevin Ham typo squat the whole TLD.

    • Anon

      Or .CD

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  • mary effing hinge

    pirate bay and other torrent sites are like the eastern european man who breaks in takes everything valuable and shits on the carpet and kills everyone in the house before torching the lot and scarpering with the booty. google and you tube and streaming sites of the same irk on the other hand are like the man that breaks in gets caught, gets warned breaks in gets caught gets warned and on and effing on costing us all dearly with their non compliance but by their nature of breaking the law they are ensuring making it too costly to stop by them by not actually visibly being the worse of the two types, yet fundamentally, they are one and the same, just that corporate peoples make their money from one type and cannot by the other…..yet, and if they ever could, they most certainly would. .

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      I’m giving you a like just for the steady stream of incoherence there. Not even NTP tends to be able to present that many fails on so many levels in such a short time.

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  • Ggggg

    So which tld can be considered safe?

    .ws can be OK and is quite cheap, but I don’t know if the Samoa are politically strong enough…

    .kz is nice but they did censor a domain once for stupid reason so not the right place

    .ir and .ae must be pretty solid but you have to follow islamic law..

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