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Day Four: AFACT v iiNet BitTorrent Piracy Appeal

After an earlier ruling went in iiNet’s favor, the ISP and the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft were back in Federal Court for the fourth straight day of the appeal today. AFACT, representing many Hollywood studios, argued that Internet subscribers should be held accountable not just for their own infringements, but for those carried out by anyone using their account.

As the hearing entered its fourth day, AFACT, representing the Village Roadshow and more than thirty Hollywood studios, and ISP iiNet were back in Federal Court for the appeal in their copyright infringement dispute. Three judges will eventually decide if iiNet can be held accountable for copyright infringements carried out by its customers.

In the meantime, AFACT would like to go a step further, as it insisted today that Internet subscribers should not only be responsible for their own infringements, but for those carried out by anyone using their account.

AFACT lawyer Christian Dimitriadis told the panel of three judges that is was irrelevant if an account holder infringed copyright or not, adding: “The fact that the user may be another person other than the subscriber doesn’t change the fact that the information relates to the personal affairs of the subscriber.”

Dimitriadis said that even though the Internet bill-payer was the only one to physically enter into an agreement with iiNet, by default all other users of that connection must also agree to be bound by the same terms. AFACT continues to argue that if subscribers break the terms of their agreement and use their accounts to break the law, iiNet has the ability and power to terminate their contracts and disconnect them from the Internet.

According to another report today, that notion has started to receive the sympathy.

In a continuation from our earlier report, yesterday two of the appeal judges questioned Justice Cowdroy’s reasoning in the original ruling which deemed that disconnecting customer accounts was an unreasonable response to infringements.

Cowdroy reasoned that from the evidence provided in the case, it could not be decided to what extent any subscriber had used their account for infringement.

Lawyer for iiNet Richard Cobden told Justice Arthur Emmett that on this basis it would unreasonable to close a customer account. Justice John Nicholas then asked if the evidence ever showed to what extent customers used their accounts for piracy.

“We’re just saying that the reasonable step that would be incumbent upon an ISP must be tailored to what has been put in front of them,” said Cobden, according to The Australian.

“And if what’s put in front of us is that there’s not a significant use of quota on an account in relation to this, it affects the question of whether the reasonable step to be taken is to turn over the whole account which, as we say, is what our learned friends seek.”

In other words, the evidence provided by AFACT – which shows that a particular account was infringing copyright at a precise moment in time – does not show to what extent an account was used to infringe copyright overall.

Justice Emmett, however, suggested that maybe an important point had been arrived at.

“Maybe the stage is reached where it’s reasonable to say, ‘Look, you’ve had warning after warning. Maybe you’re doing other lawful things, but if you insist on doing this unlawful activity, we’re going to close you down’.”

Cobden later countered that he could only go by the evidence provided in the case, and that shutting down an account was not an appropriate response to it.

iiNet weren’t the only ones to point to a lack of evidence in order to refute an argument. In the original hearing, iiNet said the existence of its legal content distribution platform, Freezone, showed that the ISP had made efforts to discourage users from sharing illegal content and that this model was a better way to deal with piracy than legal action by outfits such as AFACT.

AFACT lawyer David Catterns told the Federal Court that the existence of Freezone is irrelevant, since there is no evidence that portal reduced piracy on iiNet’s network.

The two sides also clashed on the implications of the Telecommunications Act and whether ISPs could use it as a reason not to deal with infringement notices issued by rights holders such as AFACT.

The hearing continues.

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  • The Last Booger Bender

    Front row Seeting. Waves.

  • Anonymous

    These AFACT guys are crazy… This argument omfg….

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  • OMG TPB DOWN

    The connection was reset

    The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.

    * The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few
    moments.

    * If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer’s network
    connection.

    * If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure
    that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

    OMG thepiratebay.org is down btw
    it was a little bit creepy yesterday
    i couldn’t evn upload or edit a torrent yesterday it said ERROR

  • a spectator among waves

    AFACT 0 – 4 iiNet

  • Anonymous

    confirmed, in Australian at lest, tpb was a bit intermittent but fixed it self up yesterday. and now is down today

    12 192 ms 191 ms 193 ms ge-0-0.cal-cr-0.srstubes.net [74.116.251.2]
    13 370 ms 371 ms 369 ms srstub-130.pn.sth.portlane.net [80.67.0.130]
    14 372 ms 370 ms 375 ms fe-1-0.pio-fw-2.piratpartiet.se [194.14.56.6]
    15 381 ms 368 ms 379 ms thepiratebay.piratpartiet.se [194.14.56.30]
    16 * * * Request timed out.

  • H.A.L.

    TPB is down in the UK too :(

  • Brain Dead Bozo

    Get your first speeding ticket ever, lose your drivers license for life. Is that reasonable? It is exactly the same thing AFACT has in mind.

    I’m fine with the concept of secondary liability, but only if Hollywood is held accountable to their own ideals.

    Example: people who hurt themselves or others because of something they watched on TV or at the theater. Children are especially susceptible and I think Hollywood should definitely be held responsible in such cases. Besides violence, they also often portray things like drugs and alcohol as “cool”. Does this sound reasonable and fair?

    I think the most damning evidence is what AFACT chose to do when give a choice between working with ISP’s and suing them. They claim ISP’s are “authorizing” copyright infringement by inaction, but if inaction makes ISP’s guilty, my belief is that this goes double for AFACT. They’ve shown that they don’t want to go after individual infringers, preferring instead to go after the ISP’s whose only crime is pointing out the flaws in AFACT’s illogical thinking and suggesting they be more reasonable.

    Cutting people off from one of the most important resources mankind has ever had just because they MAY have infringed, even if it was only one time and potentially accidental (infringing is so easy to do without realizing you’re doing it) is in no way reasonable at all.

    Hopefully iiNet will win again, which they should if the three judges on this case look at all of the facts logically with an open mind and aren’t prejudiced. Even if copyright infringement can be considered illegal, perhaps even immoral, two wrongs still don’t make a right. If Hollywood is truly serious about putting the reigns on file sharing, they have to do it the fair and proper way, no matter how daunting a task this might be.

  • Anonymous

    The Pirate Bay is now up.

  • anonymous

    i think the most important failure of the music/movie/copyright industries is that they do nothing to stop their media getting to the internet in the first place. no one can share what isn’t there. problem is, they actually want their files leaked to the internet. that way they can keep saying how much money they are losing and justify the law suits they keep filing against companies and individuals. the ultimate aim is still the complete control of the internet. the file sharing issue is just an excuse. wait and see!
    it is an offence to interfere with physical mail, without a damn good reason, such as suspicion of involvement in terrorist activity. that should apply to the internet as well. no one should be allowed to spy on individuals without similar, valid suspicions. i dont think sharing a movie or music album qualifies, do you?

  • Anonymous

    Village Roadshow and more than thirty Hollywood studios, all should be boycotted.
    Buy used
    Download Away

    Viva Le Revolution

  • lverona

    It’s a pity that the judges are beginning to sympathize with AFACT.

  • Me

    They are not sympathizing with AFACT, they are being worn down by them to a point that they just concede…

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  • the.dwarfer

    “They are not sympathizing with AFACT, they are being worn down by them to a point that they just concede…”

    or they are starting to receive ‘donations’ or ‘loans’ from AFACT or a subsidiary group. Am I right to assume that the ‘evidence’ they provide is ip screenshots that have been laughed out of court elsewhere in the world.

  • Steve

    Now, I’m guessing that if (god forbid) AFACT wins, this power to disconnect only applies to major corporations, right?

    I mean, imagine if any shmuck who owns a copyright (which is pretty much anybody who can type up a paragraph or two) could send false infringement notices to ISPs, the best part being that the customers themselves have no way to prove they didn’t do it.

  • Renaissance

    WOW! WOW! WOW!

    So if my neighbour asks me if, whether he could use my car to fetch his children from school and he goes to fast and gets a fine or even isn’t going to fetch his children but to rob a bank, I’m responsible? WHAT?!

    Get real!

    His action, not mine. My car didn’t rob the bank or went to fast, he did!
    I didn’t download, my flatmate did. My internet connection didn’t do something illegal, my flatmate did …

    Can’t I hold AFACT or their clients responsible for infringements because they supplied the object for a crime? Or maybe because they made it available. If they want to protect their stuff so hard, maybe they shouldn’t puplish it, … like … at all!

  • autumn

    everyone wants to hope that, if the judgement goes against iiNet this time (i can see that happening!) and a precedent is set (which is obviously what AFACT wants to happen as well) that the judges themselves insist that before any type of action at all can be taken against those companies or individuals accused, there has to be submitted such evidence, such indisputable proof of the ‘crime’ that there is no way to argue against it. at least then the onus will be back to on the ‘industries’ to do things properly, not just accuse indiscriminately for the sake of it or because they can, as they do now!

  • Anonymous

    “AFACT, representing many Hollywood studios, argued that Internet subscribers should be held accountable not just for their own infringements, but for those carried out by anyone using their account.”

    This is the way terrorists think an operate:

    Collective guilt and collective punishment: September 11.

    There is no difference between the corporations of entertainment parasites and El Quada.

    Only one solution. We have to K them all.

    We shall never negotiate with terrorists, not even talk to them.

  • Anonymous

    “The fact that the user may be another person other than the subscriber doesn’t change the fact that the information relates to the personal affairs of the subscriber.”

    So this Christian Syphilis is making his own law and telling the judge what he want the law to be.

    Me too I can make my own law:

    It is a crime punished by death or life in prison to work or assist or provide service or sale to any executive from a corporation of entertainment parasites.

    I don’t need a law degree for that.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s burn down the Hollywood studio again to teach these parasites another lesson.

  • Ninja

    “AFACT lawyer David Catterns told the Federal Court that the existence of Freezone is irrelevant, since there is no evidence that portal reduced piracy on iiNet’s network.”

    There’s no evidence they are actually losing money due to file sharing other than their fully biased bogus studies. So iiNet and AFACT are even now, no?

    Ya know, I told this was gonna be amusing..

  • 5318008

    @7

    Don’t forget you’d get your license suspended for life if someone else got caught speeding in your car, whether you knowingly loaned the car or it was stolen.

    Or maybe if someone steals your credit card number, you’re up the creek too.

    Also, let’s all pile on AFACT some more, because they’re asshats.

  • KickerDude

    Thanks for the Article Open sign ups at http://xblade-scene.org everything on dedicated servers and seedboxes

  • silly billy

    Senator Conroy is stated to have said that if AFACT lose the appeal, he will change the law to favour AFACT. that being the case, what is the point of anyone in Aus or Tasmania signing up for free, fibre optic cable? it’s only needed for fast downloads of big files! apparantly, Conroy is desperately trying to get people to agree to have fibre, but then wants to stop them from using it (disconnections for sharing copyrighted files). got to be more to this than meets the eye, surely!

  • Az

    “Australian” Federation Against Copyright Theft

    Fuckwits are Hollywood movie companies, nothing Australian about them.

    Signing an FTA with that shit hole country was the worst thing we’ve done in a long time.

  • Jay

    Im sick and tired of hearing how it is illegal to share copyrighted files, this is BS. It is not a criminal offence it is a CIVIL OFFENCE its a licencing issue not a copyrighted issue.

    I can not be bothered to go into it in detail but it boils down to this most of the copyrighted stuff on thsi planet is licenced for use not sold not rented but licenced. Now a licence is a contract and breaching a contract is a civil offence not a criminal one.

    Copyright infingment is for when someone infringes your copyright outright and sells it or displays it as there own.

    I.e. I make a cartoon starting micky mouse. I do not have the copyright to micky mouse(dispite the fact that it should be public domain by now but that is another issue) so by using it myself i am infringing on disneys copyright of micky mouse.

    BUT by sharing a disney cartoon of micky mouse i am breaching the licence of that cartoon but i am not infingming on disneys copyright as they released it to the public under licence(a licence that has to be bought). Actually its the person receiving it that is breaching a lience or in posession without a licence.

    I wish someone would bring this up in court i would like to hear there expenation on the above.

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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