Director of ‘The Nines’ Talks to TorrentFreak About Piracy
Written by enigmax on January 18, 2008Earlier this week we published an article where John August, the director of the hit movie ‘The Nines’ said that he wouldn’t think bad of people who downloaded his movie using BitTorrent. We caught up with John who kindly shares some thoughts on piracy and reveals an innovative future plan.
John August, the director of hit movie ‘The Nines’ said he wouldn’t hold it against BitTorrent users who downloaded his movie. So what exactly does he mean by this? TorrentFreak caught up with John who shared some more of his thoughts on piracy with us.
He’s not exactly pleased that his movie is available for unauthorized download, but he’s remaining realistic. “I’m not bouncy with joy over my movie getting torrented,” he told us, “but I think it’s a stretch to equate unlawful downloading with traditional theft.”
Many people in the copyright debate agree that personal use is much different to physical theft, with many drawing the moral line where personal use ends and commercial piracy starts. John seems to do the same: “I get pissed off when I see blackmarket DVDs sold on the sidewalks, because those are literally discs we’re not selling. It’s an organized crime. But an individual watching a movie he’s downloaded for free isn’t on the same scale for me.”
So how does John view the usefulness of BitTorrent for marketing purposes? He told us: “The pro-torrent argument, particularly for indie films which get limited distribution (like The Nines), is that a torrent allows a lot of people to see the movie who otherwise couldn’t. And yes, a filmmaker wants his work seen.”
Of course, monetizing content is something that film makers have to consider, as John explains: “[the filmaker] wants to be paid for his efforts. No matter where you work – an office, a factory, a retail store – you do your job with the expectation of getting paid. If your employer decided he didn’t want to pay you, you’d be upset. If the employer said, ‘Well, the customers decided to take the products without paying for them,’ you’d rightly tell him to get off his fat ass and hire a security guard.”
Many discussions about the ’solutions’ to piracy touch heavily on the need for more reasonable, appropriate laws and greater ease of access to legal content. John seems to be of a similar view: “There are lots of things that can and should be free – or at least freer. Copyright needs to be re-thunk, particularly in terms of corporations and their endless time limits. And legitimate, convenient alternatives need to be available, so that’s it’s not any more difficult to find and download a movie legally.”
Finally, John told us about an interesting idea he’s hoping budding film makers will pick up on: “One of the things I hope to do with The Nines – sometime after the writers’ strike, when I can call Sony again – is to release a low-res version of all the source material for The Nines, so budding filmmakers can try their hand at cutting (and re-cutting) a real feature.”
John finishes up with a thought about the motivation behind someone downloading his movie: “I’m watching this first wave of torrents carefully, hoping the people who are downloading The Nines are doing it because they love movies, and not because they want to screw over some mythical ‘The Man’”
Maybe we should let Tom Corelis over at DailyTech put your mind at ease John? Here he is, writing about Ernesto’s recent article charting the success of an independent, free to download movie:
Meanwhile, TorrentFreak attributes Steal This Film II’s success to the creators’ wise avoidance of psychological reactance, which states that people are inclined to respond in a manner opposite of the rules when it inhibits behavioral freedom
You know it makes sense.
Previously: uTorrent and Official BitTorrent Client Vulnerable to Remote DOS Attack
Next: New Mvix Media Center Includes BitTorrent Client
45 Responses
I wish all directors think like this, but that’s not going to happen. Im gonna watch the movie now :P
well i for one,never sell what i d.load,i d.load them cause i know it will be a while till i get my hands on the dvd,and for one,i hate watching good movies at the cinema,at home you can pause it and come back to it :p
for those who d.load and profit from it,shame on you
wait until he falls for the charms of MD. They’re on the comeback with a new ad campaign….:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7373/safftheassmh5.jpg
Wtf is he talking about ‘The Man’…
Were fighting something real, the companies that protect your movies. He is a little clueless about what we are trying to do here.
This isnt all about you, the fact that you even thought your movie might not be leaked is hilarious.. all of this is alot bigger then you, your just another grain of sand that passes by.
Again, even if I could get this movie for free, I would still download it, those companies WILL change or die.
Im glad you are able to accept the inevitable, and that we draw a very distinct line between personal use and commercial piracy, just try and understand WHY we do what we are doing.
i see torrents as “try before you buy” im not rich and dont want to spend £10 -£20 on a dvd etc that i might not like or want in a weeks time, im not fighting anyone, not sticking it to any “man” im just spending my ££’s wisely
[quote comment="266510"]i see torrents as “try before you buy” im not rich and dont want to spend £10 -£20 on a dvd etc that i might not like or want in a weeks time, im not fighting anyone, not sticking it to any “man” im just spending my ££’s wisely[/quote]
Or wisely not spending them =D
it looks a bit like the wheel slowly is starting to turn….yet it´s way to early to relaks. Everyone who´s doing something for the p2p, please keep fighting, it´s going the right way! Have a nice weekend, remember to share! ;-)
/Pantonamia
Try not to worry about all the reports about isohunt being so heavily monitored by the Canadian Gov, though true, file sharing is not currently illegal for canadians. I was a little worried when I got a letter from Sony but its just bull theres nothing they can do
[quote comment="266500"]Wtf is he talking about ‘The Man’…
Were fighting something real, the companies that protect your movies. He is a little clueless about what we are trying to do here.
This isnt all about you, the fact that you even thought your movie might not be leaked is hilarious.. all of this is alot bigger then you, your just another grain of sand that passes by.
Again, even if I could get this movie for free, I would still download it, those companies WILL change or die.
Im glad you are able to accept the inevitable, and that we draw a very distinct line between personal use and commercial piracy, just try and understand WHY we do what we are doing.[/quote]
Seriously get over yourself. Although comments on torrentfreak liker this are usually quite amusing to read its also incredibly, incredibly sad.
You arent a member of the scene, and admin to a top site, a private tracker or a large public tracker, all you do is download/upload.
“We’re fighting something real”. Right now ‘we’re’ not fighting anything, were sitting here being anonymous getting sh*t for free. Want to make a difference? right to politicians and stuff, just dont come over all this bull that you’re part of a ‘movement’.
I’m all for filesharing and p2p but all the controversy has gone to peoples heads. While the RIAA are on one side of the extremist spectrum rmemeber there are others on the other side.
ie torrentfreak making out that he is supporting his movie being shared. And constantly linking back to steal this film and that other one where the director thanked everyone.
The director is spot on, he should get payed, and while people said their should be a donate page, that jsut encourages people to get it through these means and then pay nothing/pay 1 quid for it.
Cut off the middlehands and there will be a new distribution form. Probably 1 big website will come into being with direct downloads (DRM free ofc) and a payment system that is easy fast, optional (if artist wants) and no transferance fees (aka paypal minimum 1 dollah).
I believe The Pirate Bay are very likely to be the ones who does exactly that, since they mentioned something about paymentsystem before ;)
Anyways i think thats the way to go, and it will be fought to the very end by the middlemen and record labels. There will always be a need for materialization, some people will want plastic discs or memory sticks or even some other hard real item (stuff signed by the artist etc?) so record labels have another role they can take up, they will never die completely unless they continue their self destructing ways as of today..
The future looks good, certainly not as harsh as the middlemen wants us to think. Its only harsh for the dinosaur, the virus, the blood sucking money leechers, the freeriders of content creators and its natural they will try to not go extinct ;) For the consumer lies a new world with instant and endless content where they are free to pick and choose, something that only pirates today can experience, even though most of the world population with internet are pirates there will still have to be law changes.
I believe those law changes need to be about digital entertainment, movie/music/photo entertainment should get their own copyright law.
Something like a Open source licence cheme but for movies/music etc. Always provide means of donation/payment and certain information and your free to download/share and use stuff how you want basicly. Artist (creators) income is secured, provided people like their product.
This also act as a balancer so junk cant be spit out expecting steady income because of a nice box and crappy content and protection by copyright laws for a lifetime like in some places today..
It also completely eliminates real pirates. This wont happen over night, and it wont hurt a bit but im pretty confident that it will happen, maybe not today or next year even but eventualy entertainment will be “free” and easy to get without breaking some law from the 70s..
SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!
[quote comment="266594"]Try not to worry about all the reports about isohunt being so heavily monitored by the Canadian Gov, though true, file sharing is not currently illegal for canadians. I was a little worried when I got a letter from Sony but its just bull theres nothing they can do[/quote]
AFAIK uploading is still illegal
Has anyone watched this movie? / recommends it?
I’m agreeing with 11 (sort of..)
Stop taking things so seriously.
Yeah some people who download/upload/provide have to fight lawyers etc.. but taking it seriously and getting worked up will get you tired, more annoyed and probably make you give worse arguments.. so i think we should leave that to anyone opposing us! :)
.. Let them make mistakes
// Sickness
[quote]You arent a member of the scene, and admin to a top site, a private tracker or a large public tracker, all you do is download/upload.
“We’re fighting something real”. Right now ‘we’re’ not fighting anything, were sitting here being anonymous getting sh*t for free. Want to make a difference? right to politicians and stuff, just dont come over all this bull that you’re part of a ‘movement’.[/quote]
File sharing is a movement, actually. Some people are in it just for free stuff, sure, but others are in to to express their opposition to the current system of copyright.
Yes, the movement is accessible to anyone – that’s the major problem people like you have. You’d rather it be a small little club where people can act superior to others, and you think it has to be like that to be a movement…
[quote]file sharing is not currently illegal for canadians.[/quote]
Sharing copyrighted data (Infringing on copyrights) IS illegal in Canada, except downloading (and only downloading) music (and only music).
“except downloading (and only downloading) music (and only music)”
Haha… that’s funny. Got a source for this silly claim?
there is a real moving movement in shweden, Piratpartiet, the Pirateparty. And it might just make it in to swedish parliament next election, just need 4% of the votes…
It might happen, and it is a real fucking movement that will do fucking stuff.
[quote]Haha… that’s funny. Got a source for this silly claim?[/quote]
google “p2p download music legal canada”, click on cnet or zdnet link
@13
Yes, I’ve seen it and it was good. Odd, but good. I wish it had been more open-ended, up to interpretation, instead of pseudo-concrete in its explanation.
Nice Guy! Really got his head skrewed on right, I totally agree that commercial piracy isn’t exactly fair but personal viewing is quite orite! I’m going to download his film and if i like it i’m going to buy it just like ‘the man from earth’
[quote]Has anyone watched this movie? / recommends it?[/quote]
Most of the comments on it I’ve seen were that is was very good, except for one comment on TPB.
have not yet seen this movie, hope it is good, good to see that he is semi-enlightend.
[quote comment="266686"]“except downloading (and only downloading) music (and only music)”
Haha… that’s funny. Got a source for this silly claim?[/quote]
it is not that silly of a claim i have heard of this before, dont know if this the right story but
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/03/31/download_court040331.html
i, for one, downloaded ‘the nines’ right when it came out. it looked like a good movie, and i wanted to check it out.
i download movies and music all the time, and hardly ever pay.
and i’m never going to stop. and i don’t give a shit whether some idiot directors cares or doesn’t care.
that being said, i DO support the artists/producers that i like (to a certain extent; i can’t be spending thousands and thousands of dollars on movies every year), and i’ll probably buy the nines when it comes out on dvd just because it was that good and it deserves to be bought.
I call it BS. Publicity stunt.
of course it’s a publicity stunt! the guy has a movie out that he wants to make money from – do you expect him to hide under a rock or something?
“And yes, a filmmaker wants his work seen”
a Bad Thing (economically) has happened to his movie and he’s trying to spin it in a way that turns it to a positive and you think that’s BS? do you actually live in the real world or have you just flown in here on your way to Planet Clueless?
he clearly has a more liberal attitude than some in Hollywood, but the guy still needs paid, especially if he wants to work again. So of course he’s going to reach out to those that are getting his work for free, try and explain his situation and show that he understands their situation and hopes that they understand his.
the real cool bit of his interview was passed over, and that’s releasing the source material for amateurs to have fun cutting into their own movies. I doubt Sony would go for that, but it shows the director is thinking out of the box and has some good ideas for involving his audience directly in his movie.
[quote comment="266660"][quote]You arent a member of the scene, and admin to a top site, a private tracker or a large public tracker, all you do is download/upload.
“We’re fighting something real”. Right now ‘we’re’ not fighting anything, were sitting here being anonymous getting sh*t for free. Want to make a difference? right to politicians and stuff, just dont come over all this bull that you’re part of a ‘movement’.[/quote]
File sharing is a movement, actually. Some people are in it just for free stuff, sure, but others are in to to express their opposition to the current system of copyright.
Yes, the movement is accessible to anyone – that’s the major problem people like you have. You’d rather it be a small little club where people can act superior to others, and you think it has to be like that to be a movement…
[quote]file sharing is not currently illegal for canadians.[/quote]
Sharing copyrighted data (Infringing on copyrights) IS illegal in Canada, except downloading (and only downloading) music (and only music).[/quote]
You seem to have mistaken me, im not saying OMG ANYONE CAN JOIN IT SHUD BE MEGA INVITE ONLY LULZ!!!!! I’m saying its not a movement. Ok in sweden theres a political party. Other than that most of us filesharers DONT ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING.
‘YEAH LETS STICK IT TO THE MAN!’
by anonymously downloading and redistributing copyright material.
thats no a movement, i support filesharing but all this BS that people like you make up is just embarrasing to read.
[quote comment="266598"]You arent a member of the scene, and admin to a top site, a private tracker or a large public tracker, all you do is download/upload.[/quote]There are no real ’scenes’ left. Don’t you get it yet? My 20 year old sister is perfectly able to rip a DVD, compress it and put it out there, anonymously if she wants to. This goes for crew-members in Hollywood, writers, technician, genitors, pissed-off MPAA-members, everybody can do it, there’s not much to it with today’s software and open information about it.
Stop trying to make some non-existing overlords into even less plausible gods. The scene is gone. Over with. Surpassed by its technological superiors. Multi-rarring content is for idiots. Get real.
[quote comment="267297"][quote comment="266598"]You arent a member of the scene, and admin to a top site, a private tracker or a large public tracker, all you do is download/upload.[/quote]There are no real ’scenes’ left. Don’t you get it yet? My 20 year old sister is perfectly able to rip a DVD, compress it and put it out there, anonymously if she wants to. This goes for crew-members in Hollywood, writers, technician, genitors, pissed-off MPAA-members, everybody can do it, there’s not much to it with today’s software and open information about it.
Stop trying to make some non-existing overlords into even less plausible gods. The scene is gone. Over with. Surpassed by its technological superiors. Multi-rarring content is for idiots. Get real.[/quote]
hahaha ok i dont even support the scene, but you sir are a moron.
The only good non scene movie releases were from axxo.
Yes anyone can rip the dvd and put it on, but who will download it. Who releases the dvd screeners? Who releases the cam versions?
You utter moron
[quote comment="267347"]Yes anyone can rip the dvd and put it on, but who will download it. Who releases the dvd screeners? Who releases the cam versions?[/quote]
The people release it. That’s why it’s called P2P. The people keeping ‘the scene’ alive as some type of ’special world’ are all pretend. Those idiots now get their so called releases from people like you and me, and sometimes even multipack them to make them look ’scene’.
And no, the best quality rips are from experts. They are not “scene”. In fact, my own rips are higher quality because I’m a professional in the field.
Screeners are picked up by crew-members in production studios, cams and telecines are done by average kids working in the right places, R5’s are from plain movie-theatre employees in the East, they’re not special burglars or something. Trust me, you don’t know what you’re writing about. There is no ’scene’ left, your ‘top-sites’ are kept alive for a bunch of retards living in the dark ages. Any high-bandwidth user has their own ‘top-site’ right at their own PC. BitTorrent has a much higher footprint as a medium than ANY thinkable old ’scene’ method. Plus it doesn’t require the bullshit user-unfriendly multi-packing nonsense.
So you are the retarded moron. Get a clue, grow up. I’m 42 years old, I know where this ’scene’ thing comes from. It’s over.
Copying digital content is not on par with physical theft. Physical items have a line-item product cost, where cost and value can be tracked from production through distribution and consumption.
In contrast, content authors expect to monetize the consumption of their works despite the lack of per-item production cost. Of course, the mainstream production and distribution mediums do have associated cost/profit, so it is natural to protect that against unmanaged consumption.
Intellection work should be compensated, but equating physical theft and digital copying is falsified from a comparison between traditional product models and file sharing.
The desire to protect traditional revenue models that control content consumption through managed distribution channels does not by itself justify the continued existence of those same models. For the current industry to succeed, it needs to protect its interests, and currently, its interest is to protect its current business model. However, it promotes the actual business model currently in force rather than acknowledge potentially differing models that might better reflect the value consumers place on content.
If content becomes commoditized to its full extent, it may come to pass that the production of cultural works gets compensated at the cost of production, rather than the rate of consumption (i.e. the rate of copying).
The quantity of consumption of a product made is certainly not equivalent to the ratio involved in physical products, since a consumer may watch a purchased DVD multiple times.
More later.
They have to change their business model, plain and simple. If I can download a high quality copy of a DVD for 3-5 dollars, I’m in. Anything else is bullshit. Mr. August should realize that most downloaders have grabbed his movie because they heard about it and wanted to see it. That’s how it works. The total sum of folks sitting at their computers rubbing their hands together and thinking, “ahh, how many flicks can I download today so I can stick it to the man” is negligible.
If I DL it it’s because it’s not playing in DC that I’m aware of and not available on DVD. I have a NetFlix membership and go to the movies every weekend so it’s not like I’m some kind of bloodsucking leech…
If I DL a movie using BT it’s not like thats one less DVD sale, it’s one less DVD rental from my NetFlix account, which I pay a fixed rate for anyway…
good filme by the way.
very good could have eben a bit more open ended, but an interesting concept all the same.
Yes the business model will have to change, and in the process, stakeholders in will resist progress to protect their interests.
As in the industrial revolution, people will get hurt as modes of operation transition from old to new.
Exactly how it will pan out is not clear, but that it will… is inevitable.
This guy should be happy that people are willing to waste bandwidth on this retarded movie… One of the worst I’ve seen in a while… Thank god I could fast forward through the AVI… I know this is OT and pointless but common… This is youtube material at best.
[quote comment="268185"]This guy should be happy that people are willing to waste bandwidth on this retarded movie… One of the worst I’ve seen in a while… Thank god I could fast forward through the AVI… I know this is OT and pointless but common… This is youtube material at best.[/quote]
Yeah well, this movie wasn’t made for complete morons who just want to sit and stare at an idiot box without actually thinking to themselves what’s going on.
It’s called an imagination and a brain, and I personally enjoy movies like this better than the average “joe Q. stupid” movies that require very little mental capacity to comprehend the theme.
It’s really cool to see the directory recognizing that the internet is a great way to distribute indie films. Hopefully someday we will be able to download them directly from the people that make them.
I personally think what radiohead did with “in rainbows” is the best way to go. If you like it, support them. If you don’t, then don’t give them any money and delete the files. Either way, it cuts out the greedy pigs that are the MPAA/RIAA and gives the money right to the artists.
just wanted to check in – after reading that other article and this one grabbed ‘the nines’ and watched that bugger – wonderful movie ^^
[just might buy the bd]
[quote comment="267347"][quote comment="267297"][quote comment="266598"]You arent a member of the scene, and admin to a top site, a private tracker or a large public tracker, all you do is download/upload.[/quote]There are no real ’scenes’ left. Don’t you get it yet? My 20 year old sister is perfectly able to rip a DVD, compress it and put it out there, anonymously if she wants to. This goes for crew-members in Hollywood, writers, technician, genitors, pissed-off MPAA-members, everybody can do it, there’s not much to it with today’s software and open information about it.
Stop trying to make some non-existing overlords into even less plausible gods. The scene is gone. Over with. Surpassed by its technological superiors. Multi-rarring content is for idiots. Get real.[/quote]
hahaha ok i dont even support the scene, but you sir are a moron.
The only good non scene movie releases were from axxo.
Yes anyone can rip the dvd and put it on, but who will download it. Who releases the dvd screeners? Who releases the cam versions?
You utter moron[/quote]
All you have proved is that your the sad one, you obviously dont get whats going on here, and made up allot of stuff in your head.
‘by anonymously downloading and redistributing copyright material.’
hmmm.. hey uhh.. wait.. yess.. THATS WORKING! Omg! No way! YEAH YOU FUCKING IDIOT.. lol,
Open your eyes
This IS a movement, just because you don’t want to be a part of it doesn’t mean you can get on here and bash people, go the fuck away nobody gives a shit.
From once started a small community, has turned into a great unstoppable sea, we will wash away those who oppose.
You utter idiot.
[quote comment="268962"][quote comment="267347"][quote comment="267297"][quote comment="266598"]You arent a member of the scene, and admin to a top site, a private tracker or a large public tracker, all you do is download/upload.[/quote]There are no real ’scenes’ left. Don’t you get it yet? My 20 year old sister is perfectly able to rip a DVD, compress it and put it out there, anonymously if she wants to. This goes for crew-members in Hollywood, writers, technician, genitors, pissed-off MPAA-members, everybody can do it, there’s not much to it with today’s software and open information about it.
Stop trying to make some non-existing overlords into even less plausible gods. The scene is gone. Over with. Surpassed by its technological superiors. Multi-rarring content is for idiots. Get real.[/quote]
hahaha ok i dont even support the scene, but you sir are a moron.
The only good non scene movie releases were from axxo.
Yes anyone can rip the dvd and put it on, but who will download it. Who releases the dvd screeners? Who releases the cam versions?
You utter moron[/quote]
All you have proved is that your the sad one, you obviously dont get whats going on here, and made up allot of stuff in your head.
‘by anonymously downloading and redistributing copyright material.’
hmmm.. hey uhh.. wait.. yess.. THATS WORKING! Omg! No way! YEAH YOU FUCKING IDIOT.. lol,
Open your eyes
This IS a movement, just because you don’t want to be a part of it doesn’t mean you can get on here and bash people, go the fuck away nobody gives a shit.
From once started a small community, has turned into a great unstoppable sea, we will wash away those who oppose.
You utter idiot.[/quote]
Ok the other guy had a few valid points, you dont even have one.
If you read what i wrote initially i was saying the people that do thingsare people signing petitions, writing to politicians, studying law etc etc.
Downloading and uploading itself isnt actually doing anything for the ‘movement’ that you are talking about.
We are paying in some form…with our time. Time IS money.
Ok the other guy had a few valid points, you dont even have one.
If you read what i wrote initially i was saying the people that do thingsare people signing petitions, writing to politicians, studying law etc etc.
Downloading and uploading itself isnt actually doing anything for the ‘movement’ that you are talking about.[/quote]
Ok i understand your point, and it is true that doing things like that helps, but how can you say that simply using this does not do anything? What is this without people using it? Wouldnt you agree that teaching other people about this technology, and showing them how to use it, and explaining to them the truth of what this all is instead of letting them believe in those horrible propaganda, is doing something?
You show me a petition and il sign it, ive even donated, but I personally believe that just by me using this, showing other people, and informing other people, that I am supporting this.
Not only that, but I have downloaded a band I like and there playing a hour away from me that I am going to go see, isnt that yet another point we are trying to put across?
Support in the ways you can, even if its all you can do is to UPLOAD, thats giving something back.
Now there’s an interesting concept… an open-sourced movie… A movie that would be made by everyone, with building versions released once in a while… or maybe a director approved version. Many many ideas could span out of this one little concept. very interesting. Imagine having a new category at the Academy Awards: “Year’s best public-cut movie”
@42 Thanks for the idea, when i first saw it I’d thought the idea was dumb “lulz i’ll cut out his ending and put in my own and call it a new movie” But a fully open sourced movie is a possibility I hadn’t thought of
Well, I just watched The Nines- a couple times- it’s that kind of movie, and it got me to go digging. John August is a pretty clever dude- it’s already finished it’s theater run in North America and it did not reach as much of an audience as he wanted (the distro company didn’t feel the need to screen it too widely, just enough to get the reviews to push the DVD), so he’s made this statement about p2p, I think, to get more people to watch it- probably worked, would be interesting to see if that’s the case- both on his intention and on whether or not it worked to get more people seeing it.
As for what the movie is about, after watching it, check out Voltaire’s Candide and specifically what it’s saying about “the best of all possible worlds”, then watch the movie again…
As for Open Source Movie- check out:
http://www.elephantsdream.org/
http://peach.blender.org/
They are trying to get the ball rolling on that front…
Downloaded the nines a few weeks ago and recommended it to friends… Some of them took my advice and bought the movie (2 blue rays and 1 dvd copies)… It’s better than if I would have bought the movie cause then I would have simply loaned it to my friends in turn =)
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