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File-Sharers Buy 30% More Music Than Non-P2P Peers

One of the most comprehensive studies into media sharing and consumption habits in the United States and Germany reveals that file-sharers buy 30% more music than their non-sharing counterparts. The result confirms that file-sharers are actually the music industry’s best customers. In addition, the research reveals that contrary to popular belief, offline “copying” is far more prevalent than online music piracy.

casetteThe major music labels have a clear stance on online piracy, as the following quote from the RIAA illustrates.

“While downloading one song may not feel that serious of a crime, the accumulative impact of millions of songs downloaded illegally – and without any compensation to all the people who helped to create that song and bring it to fans – is devastating.”

This “devastation” translates into billions of dollars of lost revenue over the past decade, the RIAA claims. The more music people pirate, the less they buy is the underlying reasoning. Intuitively this might make sense, but looking at hard data a different pattern emerges.

Today the American Assembly, a non-partisan public policy forum affiliated with Columbia University, published a teaser of its forthcoming Copy Culture Survey. The study is based on thousands of telephone interviews conducted in the United States and Germany and provides a unique insight into the sharing habits in the two countries.

The preview zooms in on the digital music collections of people. Not just how much music people have on their computers, but also how they acquired these files.

As one would predict, it shows that those who are self-confessed P2P file sharers have larger music collections compared to those who aren’t. However, the data also shows that these file-sharers buy more music legally than their non-sharing peers.

30 percent more in the US.

“US P2P users have larger collections than non-P2P users (roughly 37% more). And predictably, most of the difference comes from higher levels of ‘downloading for free’ and ‘copying from friends/family’,” American Assembly’s Joe Karaganis writes.

“But some of it also comes from significantly higher legal purchases of digital music than their non-P2P using peers–around 30% higher among US P2P users. Our data is quite clear on this point and lines up with numerous other studies: The biggest music pirates are also the biggest spenders on recorded music.”


P2P users vs. non-P2P

pirates

The graph above shows that in Germany the results are even more pronounced. P2P users there buy nearly three times more digital music than their non-P2P using peers. However, the number of P2P file-sharers in the German sample is too low to be statistically reliable so these results should be interpreted with reservations.

While the survey is unique in its scope, this result of does not stand in isolation.

In the past we have documented studies that show how the majority of artists sell more music thanks to piracy, and that people who download more also buy more physical CDs. Yet another study found that pirates are 10 times more likely to buy music than those who don’t.

A likely explanation for these results is that true music enthusiasts simply want to consume, sample and discover as much new music as they possibly can, and the most straightforward and convenient way to do this is through file-sharing networks. For this group file-sharing is mostly complementary.

In any case, P2P file-sharers are not all cheapskates, quite the contrary.

In addition, the research also point out that while P2P file-sharing is a common way for people to acquire files, offline substitutes for digital music sales are bigger. Ripping CDs and sharing files with friends account for a higher percentage of people’s music collection than P2P file-sharing across all age groups.

This confirms earlier findings from a leaked RIAA report.

More interesting findings on the digital music collections of people in the US and Germany are available on the American Assembly blog.

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  • thedude321

    Case 1: Makes sense. If I download Music, I will want to support the musicians that are making good music, so I will buy their stuff. Makes perfect sense to me.

    Case 2: I do not listen to much Music, since I cannot afford all that much, so I listen to little, only buy the songs that come highly recommended, and thus my music expenditure is small. Makes sense.

    I mean come on guys, everyone has some sense of guilt, and that will cause them to buy something. No one wants to steal, if people find that something is good, they will pay for it. Don’t believe me? Look at Khanacademy.org, it receives millions in donations from people all over the world. Why? Because people want to support them.

    • Evilnod

      for me reason is a bit different. most mp3 i got only have 128bit, if i found someone i like i normally just buy the CD and covert it with lossless FLAC format.
      i have yet found any online media company sale their music beyond 128bit, which is a shame.

      • Anyone

        there are torrent sites dedicated to FLAC
        sadly, most are “private”

        • Guest

          GNU/Linux users buy more games than pirated-Windows-users.

          F A C T

        • OFFER FLAC Tracker Invites

          Do you want an invite to those FLAC *private* trackers ? I have 78 invites. :w00t: :w00t: So if you want one, fire off an email to me at askdoj@usdoj.gov and I’ll reply within 12 hours latest.

          You better be quick though, this tracker specialises in nothing but lossless FLAC music, and is a highly sought after tracker.

        • GUESTAR

          I do the same, if there’s something I like and enjoy I buy it and when I want to download an album or a single and there are no FLAC files, then I buy or I want to buy the original product.

      • Leapoblocks

        That’s so far from reality I don’t know where to start.

        Amazon use 256kbps
        iTunes use 256kbps
        Play.com use 320kbps

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Do all of those have no DRM? If that is the case, then they are a good deal as long as the ‘per track’ isn’t above $.75

        • Guest

          While I know that 256 is plenty for most, I refuse to just go and get it in anything other than FLAC.

          Either way, all I can get here is shitty music when buying, so it’s not like it matters. Once they bring the music here, then they can complain about piracy. Right now that’s the only way to get most of it.

        • Roemer

          iTunes sells AAC not MP3, which has slightly better quality (plus the songs are partly mastered for AAC format).

        • ThanksButNot

          Those are lossy qualities. FLAC or Lossless formats for me, please.
          If I don’t like to download MP3s and lossy files, I wouldn’t pay for them.

        • orbitly

          @Christopher A CD, with fancy pamphlets of beautiful artwork, in full quality costs about $9. Average 13 or so songs, that’s a song for $0.70. iTunes is $1.30, and you don’t get a physical form, and it’s lower quality. I pirate then buy the CD when I really get to like the artist. Bought 2 Regina Spektor and 1 The New Pornographers CD’s last week. I don’t know a single other person my age that buys CD’s, which in the case of indie stuff, gives more money to the artist than online.

      • Anon

        7digital.com sells in 320 kbps drm free

        • bart02

          320k? For some files. I noticed a trend to offer commercial popular artists only in 256k mp3, for example Orbital, Santigold, Pendulum.

          In that case you usually cannot buy higher digital quality files anywhere else, so I think that the labels are to blame: it’s all they got.

      • ranndino

        Spotify streams at 320 kbps for Premium subscribers.

        • Sgt_Stinger

          Far from all artists are available in 320kbps though.

      • orbitly

        BeeMP3 has a lot of 320 and you can usually torrent FLAC’s.

    • joexxx

      Except that you’re not stealing anything. Don’t be a brainwashed sheep.

    • Guest

      But if someone likes music produced by MAFIAA and pay for pity they are helping destroying internet.

    • http://www.facebook.com/gio.makyo Gio Makyo

      Of course somehow sales continue to plummet. No explanation as to why that might be. And the big fact missing from the above article was that this research was funded by Google, who profit directly from advertising placed on pirate sites via AdSense.

      Yes, just keep talking about the big bad record labels and ignore the big bad tech companies who are pouring just as much money into misinformation and Washington lobbying to keep their cash cow of ad money based on “free content” (pirated material) flowing….

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Honestly, your BS hurts my eyes…

        1) Digital sales are in fact in a sharply increasing curve, and has been for quite some time.

        2) Physical sales are correspondingly down…almost as if people aren’t too keen on buying CD’s…or for that matter, Cassettes and vinyl…anymore. Gee, how weird…

        3) The record industry is showing consistent record profits. In a way which puts them at the top of the heap of the industrial sector.

        4) Whether this article is sponsored by Google or not, the studies commissioned by the Dutch and Swiss government most certainly aren’t. And those peer-reviewed studies back up this study very nicely.

        So digital sales are way up, physical sales are decreasing, and the industry is consistent in hauling home record profits. And your conclusion is that two national governments and at least one european university is in essence being bribed by Big Bad Google? Gosh. What a conspiracy…

        Do yourself a favor and stop posting illiterate rubbish where people can actually see it…

  • ken147

    Take that MPAA/RIAA.

    • 741nek

      They already are. They want more.

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  • Boxxy

    As pirates say until blue in the face. Pirates pirate the shit, and pay for what they consider worth paying for.

    Make better music, make more money. Quite simple tbh.

    • Zzzzz

      The problem is they think we’re all as greedy as they are.

      • Tenten

        Very insightful comment! I think projection goes a long way to explaining the thought process of the majors.

        • Zzzzz

          Their whole business model is based on exploiting naive youngsters, desperate for fame and giving them the most unfavourable contracts possible while maximizing profits for themselves.
          They are the ones that don’t give a fuck about the artists and only care about their earning potential. They are quite happy to dump them penniless on the street at the first sign they can make more from some other poor chump.
          So when you live your whole life grabbing as much as possible for yourself with no regard for others it’s only natural you think everyone is like that.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Well, no. That’s a very small part of it.

        The REAL problem is that the pro-copyright crowd doesn’t care about music at all and can’t understand the people who do.

        To an MPAA/RIAA employee, the very concept of a “fan” is impossible to understand. It’s been like that in the record industry since the 30′s. For that breed of man, selling music is a con act, and they’re completely paranoid about anyone else muscling in on their act.

        In short, they think everyone else is a con artist just like they are. Hence the paranoia.

    • Hogspace

      Really? I pirate because I’m not prepared to give them that sort of margin.
      I download good albums in high quality from a Russian service, I pay them about $2 per. That’s a fair price. If a Western media company or artists direct want to charge me the same THEN I’ll buy from them. As long as it’s DRM free.

  • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com/ SJD

    The likely simple explanation is that people want to spend on entertainment, but no one can squeeze more than they are capable of paying. The entire 1 download == 1 lost sale argument is a total garbage. Look, I see how my friends’ kids live in one particular college campus. They are OK with sharing the entire hard drive, terabytes with a classmate, yet they spend a lot on iTunes, sometimes at the expense of nutrition. I don’t exaggerate. There is no contradictions in their world, and instead of painting this world black-and-white, copyright zealots should at least attempt to understand it.

    • IAmWhere

      There are things I downloaded then I bought them later,
      because I love their music and art so much.
      Yes, that argument “1 download = 1 lost sale” is not true.

  • Yattaw

    “The study is based on thousands of telephone interviews conducted in the United States and Germany and provides a unique insight into the sharing habits in the two countries.”

    I guess that you just need to trust that the pirates who were being interviewed were actually telling the truth and not purposely trying to skew the results….

    • djnforce9

      Having a large sample size helps mitigate that issue. All the thousands of people can’t all be lying.

      • IDIOCRACY

        Right, that is called the “standard error” (standard deviation) in statistics, there is a statistical error in all statistics that is taken in account to calculate the results of an investigation. At least with European statistical investigations. hehe

      • Yattaw

        Thousands of people isn’t really a large sample size and it doesn’t need all to be lying just a small percentage of that.

        • ranndino

          Your assumptions are completely incorrect & you have no idea what you’re talking about. This is how all user studies or polls are done. Even medical tests for new drugs. Please learn something about statistical analysis, etc and stop pulling stuff out of your ass. Thank you.

        • Yattaw

          When bias can massively effect the results you must use another method to determine the facts. it’s that simple.

        • joexxx

          You’re correct.

        • ranndino

          Studies like these account for bias.

    • Maldoror

      Well-conducted research takes this into account. I guess we have to wait until the paper comes out.

      • joexxx

        Well conducted research studies a sample size that’s a significant fraction of the actual pool.
        Otherwise it’s not better than a gallop poll.

        • ranndino

          One problem with your argument is that Gallop polls tend to be rather accurate.

    • Derp

      I’m sorry to tell you this, but you fail. And I’m not purposely trying to skew you into committing suicide. I’m just being a good samaritan and helping you get on the right track of life.

    • ranndino

      Are you familiar with how user studies are done? Rhetorical question as the answer is clearly, “No”.

      • joexxx

        How would you know?

        • ranndino

          First of all a simple google search for “statistical analysis” or “usability studies” would make you a lot less ignorant on the subject. It doesn’t take a genius to be well informed these days which is why it always annoys me when people talk out of their behind and assume they’re right.

          Second, I would know because I’m in the industry in which we do a lot of user testing. Even a sample of 10 would give you a pretty good idea of the final results. The difference in results between surveying 10 and 1000 people is very slight. Anything above 1000 and you’re just wasting your time and resources.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      It’s interesting to note that in several countries to date serious studies based on actual market analysis of heavily fileshared content backs up this data quite well.

      I assume that the studies performed by the Dutch and Swiss governments and by universities in, for instance, Oslo, were all skewed because pirates got wind of the study being made and immediately rushed out to pump money into the market in the hopes of skewing the results?

      • ChopSuey

        Chill with the “bold” man this isn’t a propaganda competition.

  • Guest

    Youtube + bittorrent are the sole reason i have been buying physical music (CD’s) for the past few years. I’m not someone to like what is in the charts today and all of this recycled autotuned shite they keep churning out. I don’t personally like the idea of paying for downloaded media as you technically do not own it, whether that be DRM restrictions or simply a lack of physical property. I tend to browse youtube for music and every now and then come across something from a few years back, i fall in love with it, i look online for an album which i will download and have a few listens… if it turns out to be something i want to keep and hold on to, i’ll immediately go and purchase the physical media of that CD. the rule of thumb is, if something is worth paying for, people will buy it even if it is available for “free” online.

    A second point as to why people will purchase a CD after having downloaded it via bittorrent is for the full quality, most uploads available on line are in compressed formats (mp3, ogg, etc). Purchasing the CD gives you the songs how they are supposed to sound fully uncompressed. It may not be much difference, but if you are a musician yourself, you play guitar for example, when learning some songs… having the full quality version of a record can be very important.

    To artist/musicians: Stop making shitty music, put some effort into song writing and people will want to own a copy of your album/ep. If you write/release garbage… it is effectively garbage, people do not pay for garbage.

    • cgimusic

      “A second point as to why people will purchase a CD after having downloaded it via bittorrent is for the full quality”

      Actually this is one of the key reasons why I pirate music. Why are there so few online stores for FLAC downloads? The only way to get FLACs for most artists is either via piracy or actually buying a CD (which can be very difficult with older, more obscure bands).

      • Anyone

        if they release FLAC now they can’t charge for the FLAC re-release in 10 years

    • Gear Mentation

      You need to stop buying from the copyright industry. You are supporting their persecution of “pirates.”

  • DarKPenguiN

    I would agree with this assertion, although I personally have no idea since I do not download music nor really listen to much music.

    The things I do download however are things which I generally buy if they are good- Since I “test” far more products (namely Software) than the average person- I also find FAR MORE things I deem worthy of purchase which I do not “need” and otherwise would never have tried.

    -Hope that makes sense. Its been a long night/day =P

  • Anonymous

    the entertainment industries will never be satisfied, no matter how much money they make, no matter how many albums and movies are bought. they also are not interested in the facts either. people who dont download and dont buy are ignored but those who download even though they buy are condemned. if that makes sense, please explain to me. basically, it’s any excuse to just continue with the old business model and the old way of keeping as much money as possible, including from the artists. as long as there are politicians that are being bribed into helping keep this ridiculous system in place, there is little hope of any changes.

    • cgimusic

      “the entertainment industries will never be satisfied, no matter how much money they make, no matter how many albums and movies are bought.”

      But that is because, in the eyes of these idiots, if media can be copied infinitely they should be able to make an infinite amount of money off it.

      • 7th_Guest

        The hilarious disparities of life:

        Business execs: “This thing can be reproduced for nothing and be resold at peak margin. We have ourselves a perpetual business model, gents!”
        Gaming devs: “Thanks to our fans for pointing out the unfair, perpetual money making exploit. The bug will be removed in next weeks’ patch.”

        Capitalism has still so much to teach us pirates…

        • Montisaquadeis

          Sounds about right when you are running an MMORPG style game like WOW or Diablo 3

      • joexxx

        Well said!

  • Shogunreaper

    Where does this information come from?

    Its impossible to tell who’s downloading music and how much accurately.

    • cgimusic

      “The study is based on thousands of telephone interviews conducted in the United States and Germany and provides a unique insight into the sharing habits in the two countries.”

      RTFA

      • Shogunreaper

        Talking to people over the phone?

        Yeah, that sure is reliable information there, i’d take the mpaa’s data over that.

        • Anyone

          that’s how statistics are made
          where do you think the MAFIAA gets its data (besides their ass)

        • Guest

          Compared to data that was compiled without official verification on investigative methodologies and non-bias from its sources?

          Anyone who’d rather take MPAA data is effectively saying they’re willing to drop the soap for the MPAA.

        • Shogunreaper

          @guest

          MPAA’s fabricated data is about as accurate as getting information over the phone from people who have no reason to tell the truth.

        • Guest

          @Shogunreaper

          Why would there be incentive to lie?

          Comparatively, RIAA/MPAA data has been consistently shown to be wrong. At least, reality proves that much of the RIAA/MPAA whinging and demand for MOAR LAW are completely unwarranted.

          The MPAA was the first one to scrape the bottom of the barrel. If they even fail to be as trustworthy as people over the phone, they only have themselves to blame.

        • TheOiulkj

          Wow, so you would trust data from a singe source that has every incentive to fabricate data over hundreds of thousands of people who honestly have no reason to lie to a totally random stranger on the phone?

          I hope you aren’t breeding.

        • Shogunreaper

          @Guest

          You don’t need an incentive to lie when you’ve got no reason to tell the truth

        • Guest

          @Shogunreaper

          You don’t need an incentive to tell the truth when there’s no reason to lie either. This argument is going circular.

          Still, that you would believe that the MPAA has credibility over most people is pretty telling.

        • Shogunreaper

          @Guest

          Everybody lies, especially when you ask people about things they could get in trouble for.

        • Guest

          @Shogunreaper

          If you perceive telling someone over the phone that you pirate files as something that would get you into trouble, then why would the amount of music you buy make a damn difference?

          “Everybody lies”, and yet, you’d rather accept MPAA lies.

          Sounds like someone’s been getting a dose of industry white chocolate.

        • ranndino

          Another clueless person who doesn’t have the slightest idea of how user studies, political polls, etc are conducted.

        • Shogunreaper

          @ranndino

          Try to spin it anyway you want.

          Doesn’t matter what analysis or scientific methods are applied when all the data is useless.

          And no its not anonymous, if they have your phone number they have your identity.

        • joexxx

          Actually, MPAA gets their data exclusively from their ass.

        • Guest

          @Shogunreaper

          They’re not going to tie phone numbers to results, you dumb nut. This isn’t a government-mandated investigation initiative. They cold call people up and see what they say.

          Somehow, you’d still rather take the MPAA’s word over the man on the street.

          Like an above poster said, I really hope you aren’t breeding.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          According to the MPAA’s official numbers they lose 42 times more money from illicit filesharing than the entire world has as GNP.

          I’d take any numbers over those conjured up by the MPAA/RIAA.

        • ranndino

          @ Shogunreaper I’m not the one spinning here. I just know what I’m talking about while you’re spinning in your own ignorance. Have a look at my other reply just now to your friend in arms for details on why. The assumption that all data is useless is pulled straight out of your ass, just like the rest of your opinions. That’s what’s truly useless.

  • Password

    STEP 1: Go to vpnbook website
    STEP 2: Highlight, Copy Password
    STEP 3: Paste Password into VPN Window
    STEP 4: Launch VPN. Launch Torrent.
    STEP 5: Enjoy Music.

    To Buy or Not to Buy.
    That is the question!

    • Guest

      That VPN service for free sounds like a honeypot of MAFIAA.

      • Sleepy Troll

        Yes. Romania is a Mafiaa haven.

        FUCK YOU ASS HOLE.

        All VPNs are Honeypots. BLA BLA BLA
        TROLL BullShit never sleeps.

  • The_Strawbear

    Whilst vaguely interesting, they’re not asking the right questions to determine the real results of what they think they’re finding out.

    The question should be:

    Do you buy more or less media than you used to before you started pirating.

    Simply because pirates buy 30% more means nothing much, other than they’re not *total* freeloaders and they like music and films.

    However it might be the case that they used to buy 300% more than the non-pirates, which given that they’re the largest purchasers of media, would mean a significant drop. If that is the case then the media companies might well have something of a point over lost revenue.

    That there *is* lost media revenue these days is unarguable, be it a cent or a gazillion dollars.

    If I had time I’d go look thru it to see if the questionnaire asks how pirates justify piracy, and the criteria they use to decide what to purchase with their pennies.

    I’m not trollin’, I just get irked at inexact questions leading to spurious results on either side of this argument.

    Another interesting Q would be for non-pirates, asking if they’d be more likely to pirate if media companies stopped litigating all over the place over it.

    • Anyone

      if you had $100 for media before, and have $100 for media now, you’re gonna spend $100, no matter how much you pirate
      all that piracy does is redirect the money from shit products to actual quality, because you can try before you buy

      • IDIOCRACY

        True, but the entertainment companies want people that have no money at all, don’t have music or movies at all too. They want the poor to be bored so they go to the street and create riots and vandalism, or rob a bank or an old cripple lady’s purse to get the money to buy the movies to be less bored. Because when the bored poor do that, more security is needed so more civil rights are slowly taken away with the argument of creating safety. With less civil rights there is more power to the ones with the money (f.e. bankers and owners of entertainment companies).
        Also more people will end up in jail which are making money for certain firms who’s stocks re owned by people with a lot of money (f.e. bankers and owners of entertainment companies). These same people of coarse also own a lot of stocks in security companies and the companies that are asked by the entertainment companies to spy on P2P traffic.

        Just follow the money trail.

        Oh I forgot my tin foil hat…….or didn’t I?

      • http://disqus.com/sdmitch16/ Steven

        Or they could try on YouTube, Vevo, or DailyMotion before they buy.

        • Anon

          But a trailer isn’t the same. Trailers are usually shit

    • themerryreaper

      “That there *is* lost media revenue these days is unarguable, be it a cent or a gazillion dollars.”
      No it’s not, it is very arguable.
      A simple for instance: I discover and download an album, 20 of my friends like it, 15 copy it and 5 buy it. If I hadn’t ‘pirated’ it, there would have been 5 fewer albums sold. So 1 download is 5 sales _gained_ here.
      That’s only from the record company’s pov. From the artist’s pov it’s probably 21 ticket sales gained next time they perform near me.

      Can’t say much about movies though, as I don’t even bother downloading those anymore, just a waste of time, bandwith and harddiskspace.

      • http://profiles.google.com/orfetheo Orfeas Theofanis

        Movies have a different revenue system.
        First of all, even if you do pirate movies and are a cinephile, you’re gonna go to the cinema too.
        Most of a film’s money comes from advertisements/sponsors inside the movie (coca-cola, mercedes, apple etc), and cinema movie rights.
        The amount of money they make from DVDs is terribly small, and if they gave away the film for free to download or stream (a few months after it comes out in the theatres), they could make even more money.

      • http://disqus.com/sdmitch16/ Steven

        I don’t think media companies are that concerned with people discovering their music. There’s always Pandora, YouTube links, and RSS feeds to make sure people hear new songs.

        • themerryreaper

          That will be the same shit they are promoting through the radio etc at that time. That’s not what I call discovering music that’s what I call kneeling to the marketing demon.

        • http://disqus.com/sdmitch16/ Steven

          @themerryreaper Anything and everything is available through YouTube and RSS feeds. For RSS feeds it requires someone create one that updates with new music that you want to hear.

    • Andrew Lee

      Well there are plenty of ways to look at it.

      1.How many people do you talk with about the music you like?
      2.Does your opinion have any value to your friends? I don’t know about you but mine does.
      3.Why can I get a fucking refund for every single item I buy other than music,movies, and video games?
      If I buy a album that is a piece of shit I expect my money back.

      If I had to guess I would say the majority of people come across illegal files every single day. I would also guess that many of them do not even have a clue for the simple reason it could be a song inside a YouTube video.

      There has to be a common ground somewhere because the larger the internet gets the easier it is for any random person to start selling whatever. As the years go on there will be more and more shitty albums because anyone can make them for next to nothing.

      http://www.millenniumentertainment.me/images/%7B0a1ddd2d-f3e0-42cc-acc5-9f8600f68da1%7D/Liquidator_Final-1_%7B0eea3837-38e7-e111-b05d-d4ae527c3940%7D.jpg
      Example the movie The Liquidator would have you think Vinnie Jones is the star however it’s not the case. This movie was a scam and I hated every second of it.. Lucky for me it was my friends that also shared my views who was stuck with the loss.

      Piracy offers protection from being fucked up the ass and people support what they love.

      Well I don’t anymore I still refuse to buy,rent, or even download. I can’t talk about something I’ve never seen/listened to. I am a junkie I have a stack of VHS,DVD, and BRD that Ajax can’t take off.

    • Guest

      “That there *is* lost media revenue these days is unarguable”

      Citation please.

      The fact that you’ve failed to back up that claim with evidence makes it arguable as fuck.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      “That there *is* lost media revenue these days is unarguable, be it a cent or a gazillion dollars.”

      Actually serious scientific studies commissioned by the dutch government did come to the conclusion that there is no negative impact of filesharing on sales. However, a positive effect on sales by filesharing WAS discovered, although not very well quantified, that not being the aim of the study.

      In short, science has already falsified your claim. Despite a great deal of effort made by givernments to find out the contrary. Any transparent and serious research has come to the same conclusion. It is rather the other way around – inarguably so that the “lost sale” is a myth with no basis in fact.

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  • Cyberstorm2000@gmail.com

    Here is a simple fact I download the album to see if its worth buying and if its not I then remove the songs I don’t like and keep the songs I like most of the time I like what I hear and I buy the album for the art and the extras as a back up for my collection and for the value of the music as it is file sharing don’t always keep old music on them so when they are no longer available I have my album to back it up on my devices .

  • http://twitter.com/krozareq krozareq

    I don’t buy shit. DEALWITHIT.JPG

  • http://profiles.google.com/chris2fm chris moran

    Another thought: how many millions of dollars were spent on computer games/consoles ten years ago compared to now … there has been a massive re-adjustment of where our net spendable income goes over the past few years. Some surveys say that more is being spent now than ever – it’s just not with the MPAA or RIAA any more – and they’re jealous!

    • http://profiles.google.com/orfetheo Orfeas Theofanis

      Plus, don’t forget there are companies that give the games FOR FREE and make tons of money (Riot games). There was even an article on torrentfreak about Free2Play games.

  • Guest

    Copyright holders dont care about profits on the larger scale, only per copy profit.

    Its like going into a grocery store and seeing a banana cost $10, but the store next door sales them for $1.99 Obviously the store next door selling them for $1.99 is going to make more money on the larger scale because who in their right mind would spend $10 for a banana.

    • Gear Mentation

      Nah, it’s like selling gas nearly at cost, and making all your money selling drinks and snacks.

    • http://twitter.com/krozareq krozareq

      Apparently you haven’t seen the “organic” scam where people pay 3x as much for smaller produce. Marketing is where it’s at. What is Apple? It’s more of a marketing company than a technology company. Much of the money we spend doesn’t go to cost of manufacturing, raw materials, and procurement; it goes to marketing.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        The organic ‘scam’ isn’t a scam. Organic foods have less dangerous pesticides and other things in them. The problem is that some non-organics are being labeled as organics.

        Only regulation and severe fines can stop that.

      • Anyone

        don’t forget that Apple is also a copyright troll
        in the last year it spent more on patents than on actual R&D

  • Gear Mentation

    You have got to be crazy to buy from trolls. Let’s not play the MAFIAA’s game by acting as if it’s virtuous or a good thing that the copyright industry is being supported by pirates (the implication being that the MAFIAA should lay off because the pirates are actually good guys who pay the MAFIAA). It is the pirates who should know better and the MAFIAA/industry does not deserve any of our money. Ever. How dare TorrentFreak purvey the assumption that if you don’t buy from the trolls you are a cheapskate (“In any case, P2P file-sharers are not all cheapskates, quite the contrary. “) Do not let the copyright industry’s rhetoric corrupt your own use of language. Language is important, it carries underlying assumptions.

    • IHaveNoBalls

      I agree, I’m not going to pay them any money because they will use it against me some day.. That’s not an excuse for downloading their copyrighted stuff btw, that just what I’m doing. Cut their money supply, people who are still paying these assholes out of guilt need to stop. They control too much of our culture.

    • Guest

      If paying for content or otherwise doesn’t protect you from trolls, laws and punishments that claim you’re a pirate, why would anyone pay to be a pirate?

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  • Guest

    The main reason I download stuff is if I can’t find it anywhere else. For example I live in a country that doesn’t broadcast any of my favourite TV shows, or if they do it’s a delayed schedule so I’m seeing episodes from weeks back. Doctor Who, for example, isn’t broadcast here. So I watch it online, and then later I buy the DVD of the season. (I already own seasons 1-4.) And um, don’t forget the merchandice! I’ve pretty much lost count of the DW merch I own.

    • nsn

      same here!except that in addition to non availability,we are poor as fuck,so there is no way i could afford to buy music

      • http://www.facebook.com/keemo.1999 Karim Kandil

        same

        • http://www.facebook.com/keemo.1999 Karim Kandil

          because im a kid

  • Ry

    you sort of get an addiction when you pirate music. you gotta have the best quality and get it the easiest way possible. so you eventually are willing to pay and cant live without the good stuff

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      As long as there is no DRM, you are right.

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  • Ericjoneschicago

    VPN VPN VPN !!

    • ScrewEwe2

      And the MAFIAA proved people will buy VPN’s.

  • WingNamm

    lol really? There are people that actually “pay” for music and movies? I dont believe that for a second.

    us-Privacy.tk

    • http://twitter.com/krozareq krozareq

      PT Barnum believed it; proved it.

      • ScrewEwe2

        Uhh, I think that was Coca Cola that proved people will buy sugar water.

  • Pingback: Study shows P2P music thieves also buy more music than everyone else | Mobile phone news and reviews, prepaid and unlocked android phones

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  • Lawnstone

    I am torn. On the one hand I’m glad it has confirmed that pirates aren’t quite the cutlass wielding, swashbuckling, rapers and pillagers they try to paint us as, but then I’m extremely disappointed that we’re the biggest supporters of the RIAA. They’re the enemy. Vile, scummy landlubbers and you’re throwing your plunder right into their coffers so they can hang us like common filth. I say we take that rope and keelhaul the lot of them. Feed the barnacles with their blood!

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  • nsn

    believe me,if there were no piracy,i would not be able to hear any music
    no fucking revenue loss to the music industry on my part!

  • http://twitter.com/bob_love Bob Love

    So if you make the (I think very reasonable) assumption that p2p users are more passionate about music, basically what they’ve discovered is:

    That the people most interested in music, BUY the most music. Period.

    Personally, considering the amount I’ve spent on music over the last 35 years, this is not news to me.

    Why it’s news to the RIAA is the real mystery.

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  • gingernutcatcrapper

    you need to hear it to know you’ll like it? unfortunately, in hearing it on your computer you are downloading it, that’s what my internet allowance says anyway, so just because i did not download it, and just streamed it, doesn’t mean i don’t still have it on me, according to a so so monitoring institution. so how can it be calculated that i do not have the copy of something i have just listened to, yet through some free software not to be mentioned i grabbed it at the same time? not that i would do this as i am a lossless freak. yet another observation from a red top, also the same for films on certain sites that just stream movies. this is all so confusing yet calm and smooth, with a textured filling of censorship and takedown notices topped to the nines in flash drives full of data

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  • Anon

    Now we have an argument suggested that purchasing some entitles infringing on others. When pirates advance their first sensible argument, they’ll be heard. Until then, terrabytes of pilfered entertainment speak a lot louder than their words.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      No, until then, reality is asserted. Copying still isn’t stealing. And until you get the supreme court and every judge in any nation to reverse that decision, there is no “pilfered” entertainment.

      Only individuals copying stuff from one another, which is what the human race has done for millions of years.

      The one carrying the insane argument would be you – the message you tote makes even Communism look sensible.

  • http://www.wraithtdk.com Matthew Young

    Interesting. Apparently, all those damned kids who are “killing the music industry?” The “freeloaders” who are “taking taking artists livelihoods?”

    Yea, turns out we’re more responsible for the industry’s SUCCESS than all of those “true fans” who don’t engage in such unsavory behavior.

    You’re welcome.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1181592098 Karan Shah

    not really something new, i knew this long time back… this just proves what i got to say since long.

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  • xmichaelx

    Self-reported statistics are slightly less valuable than no statistics at all.

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  • Inazuma65

    I’m a moral person. Regardless of good or bad laws, I will do the right thing. When it comes to file sharing, I only do it for stuff that I would not normally purchase. In other words, when I use file sharing, it doesn’t cost anyone any money. If I like a product, I will happily purchase it and support the company. Companies who treat people like me as criminals piss me off.

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  • I’m Batman

    These statistics do not surprise me in the least. I have discovered (and subsequently supported) a good number of musical artists; whom I would not have otherwise heard — were it not for P2P file sharing.

    I am certain there are MANY file sharers, whom can attest to having the exact same experience. :-)

  • Pingback: Music Piracy: Moochers Are Also Big Spenders Within The Record Industry … – Huffington Post | CD4CD - All about music

  • Phil Landry

    You know what, my grandmother doesn’t pirate anything. (she doesn’t have a computer nor internet, and never used it) She doesn’t buy movies, she doesn’t have a DVD player or a cd player. Only AM/FM talk radio, turntable, and old analog tv. She’s legal, but she haven’t bought a record since 1974. On the other hand, I do illegal filesharing, BUT I go to theatre, plays, buy movies, buy music, go to music shows, go to sport events, or sports restaurants etc. Who is the best client, the legal one that doesn’t buy anything, or the illegal filesharing one that buys a lot of things???

  • TF-lurker

    Guys that’s all very commendable to buy stuff and all, and I was one of you, having a shelf myself filled with a hundred games and dvds from YEARS PAST. But let’s face it, they’re not learning! The MAFIAA and their political cronies don’t give a shit if filesharer’s buy stuff or don’t, nor if they proportionally spend more than non filesharers. At the end of the day it doesn’t sway them, make them more sympathetical to our cause, more lax in the way they push this issue, enhance the quality of the products or distribution, nor does it refrain them from lying or buying off politicians. Personally I think the only way to get them to compromise is to boycott their products totally (!), hurt them and break their stranglehold on the system.

    Like I said, I have paid thousands of Euros over the years, so it’s not that I want everything free. Although the best days of gaming are past (imho), there’s still movies or games I’d pay for, but I just can’t hand those assholes my money, knowing that the actual developer/artist maybe receives 3% while the rest lands in the pockets of those fucktards with which they buy politicians, laws and the prosecutors they’re suing us with.

    NO! I’m a filesharer but my spending on media has gone down a lot since the early 2000/90s and the more they pushed and harmed us over the years the less stuff I’ve bought. It’s close to zero now and it’ll remain so until they completely overhaul their attitude.

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  • KhezuGunz

    I use downloaded albums as a try before you buy type thing. It’s how I discovered some of my current favorite artists. I then end up buying their CD’s, merchandise and concert tickets.

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  • shertink

    freeconomic

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  • Vincelongman

    Another problem with music is the way they release it
    First singles
    Then the album
    And then the deluxe edition
    And Then the 2013 re-release
    And Then…

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