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Hollywood and Google Square Off Over Pirate Search Results

The MPAA is still not happy with Google’s efforts to reduce online piracy and says that the search giant continues to facilitate a “staggering amount of copyright infringement.” For their part Google is warning policymakers of the damaging effects the recent surge of DMCA takedown requests is having on the flow of information online. Both Google and the MPAA agree that the current DMCA takedown procedures are not ideal, but the solutions both parties have in mind are quite different.

google bayFor years entertainment industry groups have been demanding that Google does something about the “pirate sites” showing up in their search results.

Google has responded to these concerns by taking a variety of measures aimed at decreasing copyright infringement. Last year they removed “piracy” related terms from their Instant and Suggest services, and later started to downrank websites based on the number of DMCA requests they receive.

To offer full transparency, Google also decided to make the DMCA notices public. The search giant points out that this move resulted in a surge of legitimate and illegitimate removal requests, which appears to concern the company.

Google’s Legal Director Fred Von Lohmann says that due to collateral damage freedom of speech may be restricted online.

“As policymakers evaluate how effective copyright laws are, they need to consider the collateral impact copyright regulation has on the flow of information online. When we launched the copyright removals feature, we received more than 250,000 requests per week. That number has increased tenfold in just six months to more than 2.5 million requests per week today.”

Reading between the lines it is clear that Google is not happy with the current situation. Google does not make any suggestions as to how things can be improved, but urges policymakers to consider whether the avalanche of DMCA requests is in best interest of the public.

“We’ll continue to fine tune our removals process to fight online piracy while providing information that gives everyone a better picture of how it works. By making our copyright data available in detail, we hope policymakers will be able to see whether or not laws are serving their intended purpose and being enforced in the public interest,” Von Lohmann notes.

The MPAA, however, believes that if one industry has the right to complain, it’s them. According to the Hollywood group it is the content creators who are most troubled by the way things are at the moment.

“Google’s reading of the data is missing some critical perspective: if the process is cumbersome for Google, it is even more cumbersome for the creators and makers who must constantly be on the lookout to protect their work from theft,” Marc Miller, MPAA’s Senior Vice President for internet content protection states in a response to Google.

According to the MPAA, Google is facilitating massive copyright infringement while the copyright holders only have limited tools to make “pirate” results disappear.

“There is a staggering amount of copyright infringement taking place every day online and much of it is facilitated by Google, as their own data shows,” Miller notes.

“By Google’s own accounting, millions of times each week creators are forced to raise a complaint with Google that the company is facilitating the theft of their work and ask that the infringing work or the link to that work be removed. Often, even when the links are removed, they pop right back up a few hours later. That’s not a reasonable — or sustainable — system for anyone.”

The MPAA adds that the discussion about how to deal with piracy has nothing to do with restriction of speech on the Internet, but sides with Google’s conclusion that something has to be done to improve the current situation. The Hollywood group doesn’t necessarily see this as a discussion for policymakers though.

“We couldn’t agree more with Google that this data shows that our current system is not working – for creators, or for Google. But we can’t lose sight of the fact that it also confirms the important role that Google has to play in helping curb the theft of creative works while protecting an Internet that works for everyone,” Miller states.

In other words, Google has to step up its efforts.

Last year a behind-closed-doors meeting revealed that the copyright industry is pushing Google to completely de-list popular filesharing sites such as The Pirate Bay, and give higher ranking to authorized sites.

Thus far Google has refused to give in, but the most recent square off illustrates that the MPAA and other copyright lobby groups will continue to push for these changes.

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  • adam

    There is a staggering amount of copyright infringement taking place
    every day online and much of it is facilitated by Google, as their own
    data shows,” Miller notes.

    WHO THE FUCK GIVES A FLYING FUCK! SICK OF HEARING YOU WHINE AND BITCH FUCK OFF WE DONT GIVE A RATS ASS. WE WILL DO WHAT WE WANT AND YOU WILL LIVE WITH IT.

    • Guest

      It’s a wonder they haven’t accused all the ISP’s of facilitating copyright infringement as it is through the ISP’s that people transmit the data. I guess it is easier for the MAFFIA to accuse Google then it is to accuse every ISP.

      • Guest

        If the MAFIAA ever managed to take Google out, the ISPs would be the very next target. The media industry has decided that the internet must die, and they won’t be satisfied until there is no more connectivity. Everything must be a one-way broadcast medium that only they can use.

        • Guest

          May be the people at Google now understood that the entertainment industry has became a deadly treat to their business. I this is the case they also finally realize that it is time for them to obliterate the entertainment industry if they want to keep their search engine and Utube as major websites. People are fed-up with all these DMCA bs with utube and they probably noticed the drop in quality on the search engine returning less relevant or useful results.

        • http://twitter.com/KathySwenson1 Kathy Swenson

          The Hollywood group doesn’t necessarily see this as a discussion for policymakers though.http://www.AmericanJobByGoogle.qr.net/jVFB/watch?v=C1DZATdBBI

        • OccamsKatana

          I don’t think that would happen. If anything, I think Google could eat them up if they decide to. It all comes down to the almighty $$$$$

        • PiRat

          Lets hope you’re right or we’re screwed.

      • anonymous

        it’s also easier to go against companies that are a bit less well endowed, financially, at least. in the other dept, Google seems to be extremely lacking (ie, no balls!!)

        • Heisenberg7

          Trying to avoid litigation != no balls. They’re doing the best they can and the fucking MAFIAA still isn’t happy (big surprise). There will be a tipping point and Google will fight back. You can be sure they have the legal firepower to do so.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Heisenberg7, that tipping point should have been here and gone by now. Google adheres to DMCA notices, they adhere to various other laws around the world…. what the FUCK does the MAFIAA want here?

      • They won nothing

        They tried it in australian went to court 3times all the way ti the high court and the judge bitch slapped the movie industry to the back door 5-0 in favour of the ISP basically to the industry piss off
        T

      • xpmule

        ya.. they are lazy
        its easier for them to attack 1 large target than the million smaller targets.

      • Ted

        They did try to accuse ISPs in Australia (were a nice testing ground over here) but the high court of australia upheld that the internet provider “had not authorised the infringement”, which has set a precedent the MPAA probably arnt the happiest about. There is no higher court in Australia, so that is the end of the story here. (thankfully). See the short summary of the judgement here:

        http://www.hcourt.gov.au/assets/publications/judgment-summaries/2012/hcasum16_2012_04_20_iiNet.pdf

  • Ole Juul

    “The MPAA adds that the discussion about how to deal with piracy has
    nothing to do with restriction of speech on the Internet, but sides with
    Google’s conclusion that something has to be done to improve the
    current situation.”

    Wrong. It has everything to do with speech on the Internet, and the current situation could be greatly improved if the MPAA would stop talking. That would truly be a win-win situation.

  • MPAASucksMyBalls

    Vou continuar baixando.
    Vem chupar minha pica MPAA do caralho!

  • http://twitter.com/MAFIAAFire MAFIAAFire

    It’s Google’s fault in trying to work with these low down sons of bitches instead of fighting them every step of the way (Google is one of the few companies who can do so with the resources they have).

    Working with these scum will only get worse, kind of like throwing pennies into a blackhole and hopeing it will fill up – not gonna happen, its going to eat your pennies and stick around asking for more…and more… and more and.. etc

    Kick the scumbags out, tell them to make their own search engine and censor it however much they want, either way, fight them every millimeter of the way.

    • anon

      Counldnt agree with you more.

      Google should start ignoring tottally MAFIAA and focus on their own.

      Or they can just fight against them and they can win easily. Just put a banner on their search engine and Youtube like “MPAA want to censor the Internet” , and MPAA is wiped out of the planet.

      • Guest

        Not really, most people are idiots who will clearly buy ZOMG latest movie! must see!

        MPAA will need more than a google frontpage warning against them.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1509036110 John Pickens

        It’s certainly less risky than the alternative for Google which is to lose the valuable data that can be accrued from 3 million people who searched for a Miley Cyrus torrent.

  • chronoss

    when does the cost to society to pander after the few become so much a burden we all say ENOUGH

  • MPAA Sounds retarded

    As soon as the MPAAtard , Miller said…..

    Google has to play in helping curb the theft of creative works.

    HE LOST everyone. Everyone knows that copying isn’t stealing.

    When will these tards learn that propagandizing points of views are obvious and makes a mockery of any valid argument they have.

    Tards be retarding again.

    Meanwhile in retardOworld, pirates call for the theft of the latest movie so that no one can see it.

    • LazyBoy

      It might take some work, but if everyone pointed this out, I think people might calm the f*ck down.

  • Anyone

    “when the links are removed, they pop right back up a few hours later.
    That’s not a reasonable — or sustainable — system for anyone”

    now they are getting it
    if only they would act on that information and change their ways by offering what the people want

  • Anonymous

    The MPAA won’t be happy until the Internet is a one directional communications media like television or radio, where only approved content can be shared by a few people for the masses to passively consume. There’s no point in Google caving into their demands, as they’ll always come back with more.

  • Guest

    The only way that the MPAA will ever be happy with Google is if Google shutsdown and discontinues as a business but that is never going to happen.

    • MPAA

      Oh no, we don’t want Google to shut down. We just want them to list what we tell them to list and nothing else. It’s for the good of the people. We know what will make you happy better than you ever will.

      Now just submit to our desires and we can all be happy.

  • http://twitter.com/happyizpunjai happy

    nerds vs. Media …. NERDS WILL WIN CUZ THEY KNOW What there talking bout

    • Liam JH

      google v zombie steve jobs – I’d pay to see that streaming live

  • Guest

    Guess it is easier for the MAFFIA to go chasing after Google and bully them then it is for them to get the law changed in their favour.

  • Who

    apparently no one really cares what the real law says. so fuck it. they will do as they please regardless.

    if you want to know the truth take it upon your selves to find out and then cram it up there ASS!

    Im actually tired of trying to tell people what the LAW actually says cause no one seams to give a rats ass.

  • MadAsASnake

    … and the MPAA facilitate far too much bribery and corruption – oops no, they do it directly.

  • Truth

    Maybe the MPAA/RIAA should invest all the money they use in bribes/lobbying/propaganda/lawyers/etc. to make their own internet search engine what I’m sure will become extremely popular. Maybe they should buy Bing,

    • http://twitter.com/Paladinleeds Daniel Ratcliffe

      Oh please god no don’t have them buy Bing… Making their own search engine fine. But please leave Bing as it is. I actually use the Microsoft search engine as I’m a Windows Phone user.

      • Anonymous

        Must be lonely using Windows Phone? what with the other 99 people in the world who own one?

        • http://twitter.com/Paladinleeds Daniel Ratcliffe

          Lonely? Nope. Quite a bit of my family use Windows Phone and there’s quite a large community over at WPCentral of Windows Phone users. It’s picking up pace. What would you rather I use? Android? Tried it, didn’t like it. iPhone? Find the interface stale. BlackBerry? Find the interface stale, BBM isn’t as big a draw for me as people make it out to be. Featurephone/dumbphone? Erm, I actually want to use a smartphone.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Well, to be honest, Linux DID force MS to create an OS which didn’t suck outright. Today it’s even capable of handling smartphones.

          Generally speaking your choice of phone OS today is dependant on how much you want to try third-party apps. Android would be the winner there, hands down. Closely followed by iOS. Windows isn’t even on the horizon yet.

          But we’ll see.

  • fuck mpaa

    sue also Intel and AMD for providing processing power to pirate and their server .sue also electricity for powering their pc . food store for giving them food and finally god for providing oxygene . what a B.S.

    • McCheezits

      Yes, Oxygène by Jean Michel Jarre is quite a fantastic album. You could say it is God-like…

      • Anyone

        both albums are great

        I can recommend the “Symphonic Jarre” album, where they played his songs with an orchestra (even if they “cheated” on some songs with a keyboard) it gives the songs a whole new dimension

  • anonymous

    it’s about time Google stepped up to the plate, sided with their customers and stuck up for the very thing that has made it what it is, ie, THE FRIGGIN INTERNET! if they dont quickly start to put some weight behind things, instead of continuously doing whatever the entertainment industries tell them to do, but learning very quickly that whatever they do isn’t and never will be enough, their own business model is going to be diminishing rather rapidly. in fact, just as with wanting to take control of the internet, the entertainment industries want to take control of all searches done and results produced. that is nothing less than censorship and at the moment, Google are helping them and by not making a stand could find themselves losing out big time!

    • Colin Carr

      Trouble is, for large parts of Google it’s the advertisers who are the customers. We users are merely the product. Time to switch search engines to Duckduckgo or similar?…

  • zex

    they both know that once one link goes down, 2 more pop up. sad to say, that just how it works. Youtube.com copy infringement videos is perfect example of it.

  • Andrew me

    I have said before and i will say again, Google will use this data and all the stupidity of the mpaa to get the lawmakers attention, all they have to do is really point to all of the times the mpaa have been on the wrong side of the argument throught the history of copyright to convince anyone that they must not be involved in the advancement of technology as it will eventually benefit them as much as it benefits the people.

    Google is playing the long game here while the mpaa is looking at the short term, ignoring facts and the one fact is that as google blocks others are there to unblock, more and more people are becoming torrenters for the fact that it is efficient compared to any other service the monopolists have ever developed, not that they could not develop something as efficient, they just do not want to.

    • MadAsASnake

      MPAA have never been involved in the advancement of technology (of the useful arts). It won’t benefit them, if the Movie studios embrace technological advances they will find MPAA to totally irrelevant and stop paying them.

      • MPAA

        But without us who will fight the evil pirates? They’ll lose billions of dollars every year without our noble efforts.

    • IHaveNoBalls

      You could be right. Maybe Google is trying to speed up the censorship process to show lawmakers how bad it gets… and how it never ends.

      Seems like a hell of a gamble though so i wouldn’t bet that was the plan.

      I wonder why Google is complaining now and not earlier, have they realised that their public image is turning to shit?

      Anyways try yandex.ru as a search engine
      You actually get relevant search results on this one.

  • cogg

    it’s very simple – every co that wants to send google a takedown request, it must be accompanied by a fee.
    start with 1$.
    for every false takedown request, implement a penalty of 100$.
    google has its own expenses, it doesn’t need to give away for free resources to hollywood.

    • Anonymous

      Fees are unnecessary. The validity of requests just needs to affect the priority of the originator. That way, individuals and small businesses who do their research before posting get heard over the giant spam machine that is the MPAA.

      • Anyone

        why should anyone have the right to censor google in the first place?

        • Deal With It

          I censor google at home with my web browser extensions and addon’s, but mostly because they snoop around my browser and I don’t like illegal snooping without my consent.

    • JordanKratz

      Exactly ! MAFIAA wants Google to work then Google needs to charge them.What is wrong with Google anyways ? Google wake up and charge them a Boatload per Notice.
      To bad if they do not like it.MAFIAA sucks shit anyways.
      Watched Looper last night for free MAFIAA A-Holes ! Thanks for the film TPB.
      Think I will download Looper again just for shits and giggles !!!

  • Liam JH

    This could be ended if Google just bought out Sony and Warner.

    • EricPost

      Or vice versa

    • anonymous

      this could have been sorted long ago but can still be sorted pretty quickly now IF GOOGLE WERE TO GROW A PAIR AND GO AFTER THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRIES!!! THE BEST DEFENCE IS ATTACK. WHY DOES THE INDUSTRIES ALWAYS USE THIS MODE? BECAUSE THOSE UNDER ATTACK ARE ON THE BACK FOOT FROM THE START!!

  • ughhh

    Here we go again with the DisQus “update” … ughhh!

  • http://twitter.com/monurta JH

    If the content providers want their legal/legit results to appear further up the Google search rankings than piracy sites, why don’t they do it by making their sites the most popular sites for the relevant thing.

    If you want to push down piracy, force it away legitimately by making the non-pirate offering better. If you want to push down piracy websites, do it by making the legal websites better by actually making them better, rather than getting Google to manipulate its search rankings.

    • EricPost

      For the same reason Google removed porn. Let’s face it, the porn is still there, but now you have to use about 10 keywords instead of the most relevant one or two. Relevancy doesn’t count and Google showed this with their latest porn ban

      • Techanon

        hum, what? when did this happen?

      • JG

        Wait…. If Google removed porn from their searches…. Wouldn’t that take away like 90% of their database of possible sites????

        Seriously, though, if you want porn back, go into your account settings & find Safe Search & disable it. You’ll get all the family-unfriendly sites back….

        • Guest

          Wait…. If Google removed porn from their searches…. Wouldn’t that take away like 90% of their database of possible sites????

          That is a popular myth which just isn’t true, you obviously never heard of Google safesearch?

          You probably search with it on without realizing anyway.

        • Danny

          You obviously didn’t read the whole post.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Agreed. Lower prices, offer extra added value including the peace of mind of knowing that the thing downloaded straight from the artist or recording company website is virus-free, etc.

  • EricPost

    The MPAA is going about this all wrong. I don’t approve of their action, but let’s face it, people Pirate ’cause it’s there. Then they get greedy. If the MPAA wanted to end this, what they should do is pressue the ISPs to charge for every single mb downloaded. No more packages. If people paid for each and every mb, (the way AOL used to charge per minute in the dial up days), people would have to think two or three times, “Do I want this?” before downloading. I bet most people wouldn’t.

    The ISPs would make money against those who now have a data cap and never come near it. As they’d charge per mb.

    • MadAsASnake

      No, MPAA should fuck off and die. They do nothing of any value at all for our society. If the movie studios want to win their customers back then they should make sensible market offerings.

    • I Can Haz Cheez

      This would just penalise independents, the way every other way the majors are pandered to does.

    • Anyone

      you want us to go back to the digital stone age just because some fat movie producers bitch and moan like little cunts?

      that’s not gonna happen

    • http://twitter.com/Paladinleeds Daniel Ratcliffe

      Sorry, I disagree. all you’re going to do is kill off so many ISPs with that, like Three (technically a mobile network but as they provide data services they would still come under ISP), who’s whole unique selling point is truly unlimited data. Yeah, good thinking… paying twice for my content… once to get the Xbox Music Pass that lets me legally download stuff, and once AGAIN to actually download said stuff. Give me a break.

  • http://profiles.google.com/orfetheo Orfeas Theofanis

    What’s that supposedly official DMCA notice?
    What difference does it have from an e-mail like “Please remove that link, it’s infringing on my copyrights” ? Why do people need a special service like the DMCA, if it doesn’t even have a penalty when you faultily accuse someone?

  • Guess

    They act like google is the place to find downloads. After you find the site to download you stop using google(as a middleman) and go directly to that site and use the search on that site.

  • rftcrusher

    Julia Jenks, head of research at the MPAA,”it’s impossible to evaluate the reliability of the conclusions that were made from the abstract, which didn’t fully present the methodology or results of the study.” This girl has the answers as to why the MPAA/RIAA results just don’t jive with anyone else in the world. She needs to repeat and write down 1000 times after school her own quote.”it’s impossible to evaluate the reliability of the conclusions that were made from the abstract, which didn’t fully present the methodology or results of the study.” No wonder the MPAA hired her. Can you imagine her job interview with them. Their jaws dropped, if we don’t understand her nobody else will either, shes hired.

    • ScrewEwe2

      If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

    • Colin Carr

      Sounds like she’s accidentally telling the truth about the reliability of IP addresses in identifying people alleged to be sharing copyrighted files.

  • Guess

    “By Google’s own accounting, millions of times each week creators are
    forced to raise a complaint with Google that the company is facilitating
    the theft of their work and ask that the infringing work or the link to
    that work be removed.”

    “facilitating” How are they facilitating their work? Do they provide direct download links that lead to google servers?

    Google just needs to back out of the dmca scene.

  • Google Boy

    The Pirate Bay is the MAFIAA’s Best Friend.

    A copyright holder simply goes on TPB and finds his/her content ‘Title’. Then sorts the list of torrents by the most seeds (or most peers). Then just copy/paste the (most popular) torrent HASH IDs. He then parses (searches) Google by a key phrase and and the torrent HASH IDs.

    Example: “Looper”
    28F171B2D06B4BD82C2F42026BFB24E4FD324598
    0034CB39222EAEB9D739252EAEB2205DE6F730EB
    C32020405D0362A38D09853234F0487892E8E1BC
    D9817D4C57F7B7F11E3D80EAD03AAA162DE543DC
    2010EB2A9CA424ED71A793CEBEA9320A00D97F13

    These are the five most popular out of 145 TPB results. Each phrase-HASH combo yields 100s of accurate URLs from Google. Very few false positives. If the MAFIAA got off their lazy butts, they could accurately strip the Google Database of 10k ‘infringing’ URLs daily.

    The Pirate Bay endorses this. TPB likes being the BEST SEARCH ENGINE IN THE WORLD! But, alas, Google HATES DATA PARSING (aka SCRAPING). And a simple user interface that accepts a key “phrase” and multiple (40-char) HASH IDs is not available to the public.

    Someone needs to build a system to do this. Charge a penny per URL result. Pirate Bay and MAFIAA both be happy. Google not so happy (who likes have their database stripped clean).

    • Guess

      Google is google. They can choose not to do a damn thing if they want to. I’d like to see some court or law to try to force google to do something.

      • Anyone

        keep an eye on Germany, they are trying to force google to pay for newssnippets

        that will be fun ;)

  • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

    “Last year a behind-closed-doors meeting revealed that the copyright industry is pushing Google to completely de-list popular filesharing sites such as The Pirate Bay, and give higher ranking to authorized sites.”

    Well, that’s the obvious solution. Must be implemented.

    • Guest

      Well that will be completely futile and a wasted time but hey its theirs to waste. Even if it did succeed there are 1000′s of other search sites that people will use and guess what file sharing will continue whether you like or it not and anyway they can’t do that because it will violate the first amendment and I doubt Google will violate the first amendment because you and other people disagree with people file sharing.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        Bust one shoplifter and there are 1000′s of other. Still we must continue to fight both shoplifting and piracy and never give up the fight against greedy people with no conscience.

        • Fredrika

          > “Still we must
          continue to fight both shoplifting and piracy..”

          Since non-profit piracy isn’t a problem in the first place, why must we?

          > “..and never give up the
          fight against greedy people..”

          The desire to enjoy culture does not make one a greedy person, it makes one a culture lover. The desire to save money does not make one greedy person, it makes one economically sane.

          > “..with no conscience.”

          Being a culture lover that desires to save money, or disobeying a monopoly that society have no proven need for does mean a person is lacking a conscience.

          However, continuously arguing in a dishonest way with never-ending use of logical fallacies, that could indicate lack of a conscience.

        • Anyone

          you got one thing right, we must continue to fight against greedy people with no conscience

          that’s why the MAFIAA has to die

    • Anyone

      so censoring perfectly legal sites is “obvious”?

      and if so, why can only the MAFIAA submit lists of competitors they want to removed from google? why can’t Apple have Samsung delisted, it’s exactly the same thing

      if you want your site to be popular, make your site good

      don’t demand that better sites be censored

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        They sites are very far from legal.

        Piracy is not competition, it’s criminality. Stop mixing things up!

        • Anyone

          you still haven’t learned what constitutes “illegal”?

          of course piracy is competition, they are a competing distribution service

          steam shows how to successfully compete with piracy, the MAFIAA should ask them for some pointers

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          “of course piracy is competition, they are a competing distribution service”

          No, there’s no need for competition in distribution since this can be done so easily today. Copying, distribution and getting paid for the copies are closely related and is a natural result of copyright. And again, piracy is not competition in the same way as shoplifting is not competition with selling the products legally.

        • Fredrika

          > “No, there’s no need for competition..”

          What you personally believe there is need for does not change the fact that competition is competition.

          > “..in distribution since this can be
          done so easily today.”

          Yet there is competition in distribution today.

          > “Copying, distribution and getting paid for the
          copies are closely related and is a natural result of copyright.”

          Copyright is unnatural. Claiming that the result of something unnatural is natural is really a bit surreal, and it’s definitely circular reasoning.

          > “And
          again, piracy is not competition..”

          By definition offering the same product that a monopoly holder sells is competition.

          > “..in the same way as shoplifting is not
          competition with selling the products legally.”

          No one has ever claimed that a fundamentally different act and crime is competition.

          However, bring up a completely fundamental different crime is a guilt by association argument. Maybe you should learn to stay away from those?

        • Fredrika

          > “The sites are very far from legal.”

          According to all relevant judicial systems, they are indeed fully legal.

          > “Piracy is not competition..”

          Competition is competition, regardless of it’s allowed or banned through a legislative monopoly.

          > “..it’s criminality.”

          Still haven’t learned the difference between civil law and penal law?

          > “Stop mixing things up!”

          As anyone can see, the only one mixing things up are you yourself.

    • Fredrika

      > “Well, that’s the obvious solution.”

      The obvious solution to an according to all scientific research non-problem is to de-list links to a fully legal site that people are well within their legal right to visit, upload and download fully legal non-copyrighted torrent files from, and give preferential treatment to competitors that are less popular, and therefore should be ranked lower in the search results?

      Can you elaborate on that seemingly illogical reasoning?

      It seems to me that since society has no proven need for the copyright monopoly, the obvious solution would be do dismantle the copyright monopoly, or at least get rid if the non-profit regulation, and then educate the ignorant monopoly holders on how business is for all entrepreneurs on the free market, and also make sure that Google ranks Pirate Bay and other torrent sites on top, if those are in fact the search results that people are looking for mostly. Mostly.

      > Must be implemented.”

      Otherwise the pink elephants from space will come and take over the planet?

    • Guest

      Lets go all the way and make the internet completely illegal and shut it down, this will totally stop all the copyright infringement and piracy in the world will it not. No, shutting down the internet will never stop copyright infringement or piracy. For as long as there are computers there will forever be file sharing whether you like it or not. agree or disagree file sharing and copyright infringement will forever remain. Those that are against copyright infringement will never stop it and are wasting their time and money and resources in getting it stopped or even reduced. Copyright infringement will forever continue, deal with it.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        “Lets go all the way and make the internet completely illegal and shut it down, this will totally stop all the copyright infringement and piracy in the world will it not. ”

        Ridiculous. We can’t stop shoplifting completely either but closing down shops or closing down the complete market outside of Internet is not proposed.

        “Copyright infringement will forever continue, deal with it.”

        Yes it will, just like shoplifting. We must deal with it in similar ways, trying to reduce it but accepting that it will never be completely eliminated.

        • Anyone

          stop with your guilt by association

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          It’s not. Piracy and shoplifting have many similarities, it’s very natural do comparisons between them.

        • Liam JH

          Shoplifting deprives the owner of the goods, ‘Piracy’ makes a worthless copy and deprives no one.
          Very different you moron. Same argument you allways use and its still shit.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          Then why do pirates make worthless copies?

          The copies are not worthless since the value comes when then file is played and the copyright owner is deprived of a potential income each time a pirate makes a copy.

          According to the Swedish Mediavision survey, based on interviews with the pirates, the pirates would have bought the file in 25% of the cases if not available through illegal download. That’s a considerable loss so the comparison with shoplifting is relevant even if there are differences at detail level regarding the losses.

        • Anyone

          the copies are worthless in that they have no economical value
          if you can make something so easily for free the price cannot be anything else than 0

          depriving someone of potential income is not theft, but good business, it’s how capitalism works

          stop quoting that biased study, there are by now enough independent studies to be quoted from, but of course they disagree with your worldview

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          The Mediavision study is not biased, it’s based on interview with pirates. Or do you think that the problem is that the pirates are biased?

          “depriving someone of potential income is not theft, but good business, it’s how capitalism works”

          No, only depriving someone of potential income for COMPETING products, not through piracy. An illegal copy is not a competing product. Make your own music or movie, then it’s a competing product.

        • Anyone

          you can load all questions to get the answers you want

          and since all independent studies disagree with MediaVision I’d say they are biased or incompetent, your pick

        • Fredrika

          > “The Mediavision study is not biased, it’s based on interview with pirates.”

          MediaVision are biased regardless of who they interview, because they are fully dependent on payments from the commissioner of the study, who in turn has a politic interest in a certain outcome of the study.

          > “No, only depriving someone of potential income for COMPETING products, not through piracy.”

          Piracy offers competing products. That’s the whole point of piracy, and that’s the whole point of legislative monopolies, to ban competition.

          > “An illegal copy is not a competing product.”

          If it’s not a competing product, there would be no discussion. Since there is, it is.

          > “Make your own music or movie, then it’s a competing product.”

          No, that’s a different product. Competition is what occurs regarding the same product.

        • Fredrika

          > “Then why do pirates make worthless copies?”

          For the same reason people play with kittens.

          > “The copies are not worthless since the value comes when then file is played..”

          The copies hold no economical value, because you can manufacture them yourself for free.

          > “..and the copyright owner is deprived of a potential income each time a pirate makes a copy.”

          You can not be deprived of what you never had in the first place.

          > “According to the Swedish Mediavision survey..”

          You mean the profit seeking and fully dependent company MediaVision, who’s study was so full of flaws that it couldn’t stand up to any scrutiny, which is the reason why it was never published in the first place?

          > “That’s a considerable loss..”

          No, failure to sell is not a loss.

        • Anyone

          name just one similarity

          shoplifting deprives the owner of goods while filesharing does not

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          Shoplfting deprives the shop owner of income through losses. Piracy deprives the copyright owner of income through losses. This is extremely easy to understand!

        • Anyone

          but all independent studies show that there is no loss through piracy

          there is no loss of income, no merchandise is gone, so there is no harm whatsoever

          all there is is loss of control, and that is a good thing for society, we don’t need no gatekeepers

        • Fredrika

          > “Shoplfting deprives the shop owner of income through losses.”

          Nope. It deprives the owner of property.

          > “Piracy
          deprives the copyright owner of income through losses.”

          Nope. You can not be deprived of what you never had in the first place. Simple logic.

          What you are trying to describe is failure to sell, and the responsibility for that always falls on the entrepreneur himself.

          > “This is extremely
          easy to understand!”

          Yet you don’t?

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “Shoplfting deprives the shop owner of income through losses. Piracy deprives the copyright owner of income through losses.”

          Every empirical study shows piracy does not cause a loss of sales. That, in other words, is demonstrably false.

          However, I can’t help but notice that according to your classification, every competitor, including the other store across the street, is guilty of shoplifting.

          Once again, NTP, the inescapable conclusions of your particular brand of “logic” are a wonder to behold.

        • Fredrika

          > “Piracy and shoplifting have many similarities..”

          Many similarities? Shall we compare it then?

          Property rights have a very specific purpose, to avoid complete chaos, by regulation of who has rights to a unique item that only exists in one copy.
          Copyright has a complete different purpose, one that you deny nonetheless.

          Property rights have existed since the dawn of man.
          Copyright has existed for 400 years give or take.

          Property rights are natural.
          Copyright is unnatural.

          Property rights are absolutely essential to society’s function.
          Copyright is not.

          Intrusions into property rights cause a very exact 1:1 damage.
          Intrusion into copyright cause no damage at all.

          Intrusions into property rights case society a huge economical damage.
          Intrusions into copyright apparently cause society no damage at all.

          Property rights regulate scarce items.
          Copyright creates an artificial scarcity on items that doesn’t have any

          Property rights are regulated in penal law in all countries in the world.
          Copyright is regulated in civil law, in some countries in the world.

          Property rights have practically an absolute acceptance in society around the globe.
          The discussed regulation in the copyright monopoly have a very low acceptance in society.

          Now, for some reason there seems to be only differences, but not one single similarity.

          So maybe you should stop claiming the opposite, because everyone can see that you are wrong from beginning to end. As i’ve told you before, non-profit piracy is the equivalent of playing with a cute kitten. It’s fun, it creates value and everyone involved enjoys it.

          > “..it’s very natural do comparisons between them.”

          For dishonest and ignorant people maybe.

    • Guest

      They declined even when the government wanted search data from them, what makes you think the RIAA/MPAA stand a chance? lawsuits? don’t make me laugh, Google could wipe the floor with both the MPAA and the RIAA if they wanted. They would just rather spend it on innovation not litigation.

  • Wade R

    We people on the internet are still not happy with MPAA’s effort to not leave frickin’ everybody alone >:(

  • Foff

    Are the mafiaa a bunch of fucking retards. All this effort to have google remove links is like pissing in the wind. Don’t these dumbasses realize there is more then one way to search for things. Within five minutes anyone can find a collection of good sites and never need google. Occasionally I search for link if a link in a download is dead and if it is a recent post have never ever had a hard time finding an alternative link.

    They are so fucking stupid if they think a censored internet is going to stop anything. The more shit they give google the more likely an alternative search will arise that will say fuck you to the mafiaa. In fact I can see a piece of software that will search a list of couple of hundred sites for a link without the need for google at all.

  • vangelsg

    indeed. bnr.gonzb.com relies on this to allow free browsing of usenet

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zak-Kirkpatrick/22906930 Zak Kirkpatrick

    “Last year a behind-closed-doors meeting revealed that the copyright industry is pushing Google to completely de-list popular filesharing sites such as The Pirate Bay, and give higher ranking to authorized sites.”

    Which isn’t a damn answer to the ‘problem’ of online piracy. When will these jerks learn that Google is just pointing at someone else’s information. If they have a problem with the information being pointed at, then you take it up with the website hosing that information, not the entity saying that said information exists. Sigh, it’s the same argument, and we will keep having this argument until the court lays down a FIRM and FINAL decision on these and related matters.

    • Colin Carr

      Are the MAFIAA a bunch of retards?
      No, but they are blinded to obvious facts about the real world by their incredibly high co-efficent of greed.
      Do not underestimate them. They are dangerous and devious.

  • oneaty

    We should start using alternative search engines like Yacy, which is a 100% p2p engine. Like any p2p app, the more people use it, the better it is. I have already tested it, and it takes some time and computer resources to use, but it’s the only way to get rid off corporate monopolies like Google.

  • NeoToasty

    The Entertainment Industry consists of nothing but adults crying like little babies who won’t ever shut up. Kicking and screaming at ISPs, Google, the World and pissing it’s influence in matters where they don’t belong.

    Many have tried to calm them down and obey them as much as possible. But it’s never enough. It never will be enough. They’ll keep going and going until they have what they want. Which is complete total control of everything, not like they don’t have that anyways.

    It’s time someone put them in their place, once and for all. Shut them up and make them realize that the world will NOT and should NOT revolve around their standards.

    • Guest

      Only way we can do that is to outlaw political lobbying well, lobbying where money is involved. we would need to outlaw suitcases too as they hide the offending material from plain site. deadly serious here.

  • Guest

    STOP BEING A COWARD AND SUE THE MPAA, GOOGLE.

    This is not an organization you can work with or appease. You have got to destroy it. Or else it’s never going to stop harassing you.

    • JordanKratz

      Just charge them a boat load for every DMCA Takedown Notice they got.And tell them we can only do X Amount per day…………
      Fuck the MAFIAA !

      • Anon

        You guys don’t seem to understand. The DMCA is a law. If Google wants to be a search engine, they are obliged to take infringing links down. Simple. They can’t charge for this, they can’t sue anyone except perhaps the source of the infringement, they just have to do it every second they are in operation or they lose their DMCA safe harbour. Don’t you guys know anything about this?

        • Anyone

          yeah, I know, it’s horrible

          all they can do is lobby to have this awful censorship regime removed or move out of the US to a country with saner laws

          the MAFIAA seems to be bound to bankrupt them with automated bogus DMCA takedowns that Google has to verify
          that costs manpower, and if they just automate it it will cost them their business, who needs a search engine that can’t deliver relevant results?

        • Guest

          DMCA allows Google to charge an admin fee for every takedown, so it’s clearly there in black and white. Google need to take advantage and shut the RIAA up real good.

        • Steven

          Actually, they can charge/sue for any fee they want for INVALID DMCA notices. As far as traditional notices.. no they can’t really charge without ending up in court the next day. As that is whats wrong with the DMCA system for some reason the site owner has to foot the bill

  • Anon

    Use a different search engine that doesn’t respond to DMCA.

    • Anyone

      can you name any?

      • oneaty

        The only way I can think of a search engine that does not respond to DMCA is a non-corporate one, that is, a p2p search engine. Like I said before, there are a couple of them, I use Yacy. Like any p2p app, the more people use it, the more its efficiency rise. Are we keep waiting that a revolution falls from Heaven, or are we going to do it by ourselves? Doing a revolution means loosing some benefits – Google is one of them.

      • TPB

        The Pirate Bay. Best search engine on earth!

      • IHaveNoBalls

        Yandex.ru (Russian) or
        yandex.com (English)

        The russian (.ru) site is better in my opinion.

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  • Paul K

    Give the MPAA an inch and they think they are a ruler.

    • IHaveNoBalls

      Was that double entendre on the word “ruler” intentional :D

  • ProGrasTiNation

    God these arrogant assholes think they own the entertainment industry,the internet has giving people a glimpse of the future were we work & entertain for the good of human kind rather than profit.
    They’re scared we will win & and start living & working not for profit but for necessity.
    They are dinosaurs in a modern world & they are pushing alot of people into action against them,so i say keep showing your greedy colours(mpaa&friends)& soon we will be free forever.

  • JordanKratz

    The avalanche of DMCA requests is not in best interest of the public.
    The MPAA are a bunch of fucking assholes who think they own the Internet.
    Google should charge them for every DMCA Takedown they receive.They want Google to do Work then MPAA & MAFIAA can fucking pay thru the nose for it.
    And if they do not like it one wonders how they’ll feel if Google does us the favor of removing every MAFIAA Link………….as in their Official BS Websites.

    • http://www.facebook.com/AMC.April April Carpenter

      well none of them own the internet…they are just greedy and just want money and wanna ruin people and their freedom

  • Shogunreaper

    Google should just start sueing for all these false dmca claims, i bet that makes them back off real fast.

    • Colin Carr

      The New Zealand experience seems to be that a NZ$25 charge is enough to scare most of them away.

  • ktkwon00

    Solution : Google makes a DMCA page with a bunch of captchas and other stuff

  • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

    The Capitalist system was once based on Corporate Self Help.

    If you’re a small entrepeneur running a small business, you know all about Corporate Self Help. If you plead to your Senator that your survival is at stake, the Senator responds, “Bill! There’s thirty five other Pizza Shops in this district! You’ve just got to make better Pizza!” If you run accross the street to your Congressman to plead that his tax bill is killing you, he says, “Bill! That tax applies to every Pizza Shop in my District! You’ve just got to make better Pizza!” The fundamental reality here is that your individual survival is NOT a priority of Government; and, that your factual relationship with Government is at arms length where you can assume NO Identity of Interest between yourself and government; and, where the Government has primacy over you.

    The problem for average American Citizens, and small business, is that under what passes for todays version of a Capitalist economy that Senator and that Congressman (and, yes, that president), are talking two separate and distinct versions of Corporate Self Help out of two sides of their mouths: One version for average citizens and small businesses; and, an entirely different version for the huge Monopolies that have been allowed control over almost every sector of the American Economy.

    Today, Corporate Self Help applies only selectively to major Monopolies; and, means, in effect, the opposite of what it means for small business and Individual citizens.

    For example, if you were the five major Investment Banks in the 1990s; and, you were focused on the potential profits available in the unlimited expansion of the 25 Trillion Dollar (Yes Trillion!) Derivatives Market, your best anti-regulations argument was “Corporate Self Help!” The winning argument of your Senator of Choice (Phil Gramm) for the desired deregulation was that “Government should keep its hands off the economy and let business fail or succed capitalisticly!” However, in 2007 and 2008, when those same multi-trillion dollar derivatives exploded at the heart of the American Financial System, your best plea for the 25 Trillion Dollars of Taxpayer funds necessary for your survival was the OTHER version of Corporate Self Help, the one in which Government must make itself responsible for your survival; and, in which the supposedly Sovereign Governent had limited, if any, options (not primacy); and, in which the ruling presumption of the crisis was an absolute Identity of Interest between the Monopolists and Government.

    This alone explains the biggest grant of Corporate Welfare in Modern American History: The bestowing of 25 Trillion Dollars on proven Corporate Failures and their economic poilicies; on their executives; and, on their political backers. This alone explains why the Costs of those Bank Bailouts were placed squarely on the backs of American Tax Payers, rather than on the backs of those who had so publicly created the crisis.

    This 25 Trillion is only the most blatant example of Corporate Welfare resulting from this monopoly version of Corporate Self Help.

    After all, what is Six Strikes, but recourse to Corporate Self Help between Five Monopoly ISPs and Monopoly Copyright Holders after the utter failure of their agenda in the Judiciaries and in the Legislatures? What is that MOU but a corporate self help effort to collude control when the Government had been compelled by Citizens to “stay out of it!” What is Six Strikes; but, the ultimate Corporate Self Help: A Corporate Program to Control Citizens without the benefit of law; through a “commercial contract”, no less, wherein Citizens have nothing to say.

    Whar are Copyright Holders telling Google when they say, “This can be handled among ourselves! No need to go into the Courts! No need to go back into the Legislatures!”

    More Corporate Self Help?

    Pray God that these disputes between Google and Copyright Holders over DMCA can NOT be “handled” among themselves. Send them back into the Judiciaries and Legislatures where we can at least begin to re-examine these problems with Corporate Self Help!.

    For the most part, this process (or practice) applies universally to small businesses who, after all, can survive only by meeting the needs of their Customers better than their next strongest competitor; and, by making sure that Government imposed obligations are satisfied.

    It’s the equivalent of the Corporate Club of Copyright Holding Distributors telling DMCA Takedown Notice recipients, like Google, “We don’t need to go to the Legislatures for a solution to these problems with Copyright enforcement. We can handle it among ourselves,” anf, of course, the just as important, “We don’t need to go to the Appellate Courts with our Copyright disputes. We can handle them among ourselves.

  • fuizhu
  • http://www.facebook.com/DaveFeland Dave Feland

    Google is a *search engine*, not a content provider. Think of them as the phone book. I can use the phone book to look up drug dealers if I know their name… doesn’t mean we should not publish phone books, right? What Google provides is *the truth* – those pages are out there, and Google just lists them all. Asking to censor them is asking to censor the net as a whole.

    Meanwhile, the MPAA isn’t some government entity… it’s motion picture studios, and not all of those either. If they don’t want their content pirated, it’s up to them to find a way to stop it – not Google, and not the government. It’s wrong for them to stop legal activity on the net so that some illegal activity against them can be stopped. Same goes for the RIAA. Your stuff will be pirated. Deal with it.

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  • james

    load of crap! keep the internet FREE!

  • Idiots

    I wonder if Hollywood really knows how it works
    Torrent sites have the torrents googling them really does nothing people know what site to go to so bit like pissing on a fire that is already out

  • xpmule

    You know what Google should do is a black out for 24hrs to raise awareness to people around the world and the unfair position and pressure being put on them by Copy Right Trolls.
    It would be awesome to see everyone around the world stop and ask wtf why is google gone ? the page won’t load etc lol
    But seriously they should do it and replace the search engine page with a full page notice explaining the situation, then maybe we can get average citizens with out a dog in the fight involved.

    And if they don’t want to do it maybe we can get hacker’s across the globe to unit and attack ..we’ll do it for em if they don’t wanna do it willingly lol

    Wikipedia does this to shed light on issues so why not google too ?

  • methamp

    This is like saying because my friend can use Apple Maps to find his dealer’s house that Apple is now trafficking drugs.

    Come on now…

  • http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

    “cumbersome for the creators and makers who must constantly be on the lookout to protect their work from theft”
    ololo, really? really hard for them when they’re not even involved in it and it’s all done by soft

  • MC

    Perhaps now Google can see that a policy of appeasement will not work with these people. They are utterly rapacious and intransigent, and they will not stop until they have control over googles search business. Because that is what its about with them, its never been about piracy or even about the money. Its about power and control, and the MAFIAA want both in absolute terms. Its what they are used to, they dont know anything else.

    My advice to Google, drop a cool Billion on lobbying in Washington. Bankroll a few election campaigns to victory. Get that word out amongst the politicians. Go nuclear. Its a shitty system, but its what youve got. Time to start playing the MAFIAA at their own game.

  • SoBobJon

    Looks like that might turn into something big. Afterall ,Google will rule the world one day!

    Matters-Anon.tk

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  • Thom

    It is the MPAA’s own fault. They want Google to to their job. Copyright holder DO HAVE other tools to protect their content, but they have chosen to NOT use them. Now they want other companies to pick up their slack for shit they’ve neglected.

    THE SAME INDEXES BEING REMOVED FROM GOOGLE STILL EXIST ON BING search and YAHOO search.

  • Derek

    That settles it. No more search engines. If you want a web addy, subscribe to a list.

  • Derek

    Seriously though, I hope that they piss Google off and Google f|_|ckes them in the ass/mouth.

  • chaz

    zzz FUCK OFF MPAA/hollyshit. WE ARE TIRED OF YOUR OUT DATED “BUISNESS MODEL” N WE DONT WANNA BUY UR SHIT ANYMORE. WE WILL BACK THE INTERNET TILL THE END. TILL YOUR END, YOU IRRELEVENT FUCKS.

  • suifui
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  • ScrewEwe2

    Here’s a search engine i just ran across tonight, called “Blekko/spam free search”. Gonna give it a test run for awhile.

    http://blekko.com/

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Smith/100001055074118 John Smith

    People are dumb. It is so easy to exterminate the MAFFIA. Just don’t go to the theaters, instead, wait until the DVD or blu-ray shows up in a redbox and spend 1.0 dollar or 1.5 dollar, rent it and copy it and it is yours forever. Don’t buy music, listen to the ones free in the internet, plenty of good ones (grooveshark…). Don’t buy anything that can give money to these people. At the max, give them only some pennies. They would die or learn soon. Unfortunately this is not going to happen cause people are dumb…

  • Jakobi

    I don’t care. At all. I will never feel guilty about pirating, and I will never stop. There is no property actually being stolen. Sales are lost, but they are minimal compared to what companies claim they lose. Would I really go into a store and buy hundreds of dollars worth of movies? That’s preposterous. I would buy a couple of my favorites and walk out. I’m not making a profit off of any of my downloads, so back the fuck off the internet and leave us alone.

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  • Dnyt

    “Often, even when the links are removed, they pop right back up a few hours later. That’s not a reasonable — or sustainable — system for anyone.”… Are they stupid enough???… the source links are still available out there.

  • JAhRAstabandwidth

    WE Had The Internet Before You.

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  • mattias

    Could some one please make a search engin that indexing the links that are removed and combining them with my “google search” i want to search the hole internet….

  • http://codesleepshred.com/ eDDi Hughes

    I’d like to point out that it’s nearly impossible to find good Android related tutorials or ROMs on Google.com search… Could illegitimate DCMA be foobaring my results? I think so, I actually relay on DuckDuckGo… shit I even cross check Bing to find good results when I’m tinkering with my Android devices!!!!! X_x

  • austinhamman

    mpaa: demand the impossible, complain that it’s not working

  • shuibeng225
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  • ribbie149

    I’ve already switched my search engine to Duck Duck Go. I will not have my searches censored the way Google already has. Google has the financial resources to fight the MPAA and until they do, I will not be allowing them to spy on me or edit my searches.

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