ISP Refuses to Admit Customers Are BitTorrent Pirates
Written by enigmax on March 25, 2009Last year seven Hollywood studios teamed up to sue iiNet, Australia’s third largest ISP. iiNet is accused of authorizing its customers to infringe copyright, but in court today it refused to accept that was the case. iiNet has yet to decide if it will admit that its customers engaged in copyright infringement using BitTorrent.
Several studios including Village Roadshow, Universal Pictures, Warner Bros Entertainment, Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, Disney Enterprises, Inc. and the Seven Network (the top rated free-to-air broadcaster in Australia), announced last year that they were to sue Australian ISP iiNet for copyright infringement.
The studios stated that they were suing iiNet for “failing to take reasonable steps, including enforcing its own terms and conditions, to prevent known unauthorized use of copies of the companies’ films and TV programs by iiNet’s customers via its network.” The studios had demanded that iiNet disconnect alleged infringers based on the evidence collected when they spied on iiNet’s subscribers, but the ISP refused, hence the legal action.
The case, officially known as Roadshow Films Pty Ltd & Ors v iiNet Ltd (but commonly referred to as AFACT v iiNet Ltd) was filed on 20 November 2008 and the parties were in federal court today. During a previous hearing in February, iiNet vigorously denied it had ever authorized its subscribers to commit copyright infringement using BitTorrent, but had not yet come to a decision over whether it was prepared to admit its customers engaged in copyright infringement at all. In part, today’s motion was intended to get iiNet to make a decision.
However, iiNet still refused to admit that its users engaged in illicit file-sharing, even in the face of evidence provided by Danish anti-piracy tracking company DtecNet. The studios say that the DtecNet evidence, when cross-referenced with the ISPs own logs, will prove infringement took place.
“How you [iiNet] can not admit that films are being made available online [by iiNet users] is, quite frankly, beyond us,” said AFACT counsel Tony Bannon. “As soon as they [iiiNet] admit there are infringements going on in their system and they do nothing, the authorization case is almost a shut door,” he added.
iiNet’s counsel Richard Cobden said that he had only recently received required additional information but now the defense has that, iiNet would make a decision on admitting infringement – or not, on April 1st 2009. iiNet does not have to admit that its users infringed and if it takes this track AFACT will have to prove as much instead.
One interesting line of discussion leading up to the admission (or otherwise) on April 1st, involves some of the mechanics of BitTorrent. The defense is questioning if transferring files via BitTorrent is equivalent to “making available to the public”, since BitTorrent transfers take place on a one-to-one, individual-to-individual basis.
The defense is also querying that since BitTorrent transfers are made by breaking up files into thousands of pieces when uploaded, this may not be enough to prove that any subscriber uploaded a substantial part of a file, which is required for ascertaining infringement under the law. For their part, the studios say these two issues are irrelevant.
One seemingly ridiculous claim from the studios is that iiNet’s customers not only illegally downloaded and distributed copyright movies, but also burned them onto DVD in order to share them with their friends, or even sell them. Good luck with getting DtecNet to prove that, it’s impossible, particularly since the studios have already admitted they don’t know who the alleged infringers are.
Perhaps the most worrying aspect of the case is that according to the studios, as soon as they report an alleged infringement to the ISP, the ISP is now aware that infringement is taking place and is obliged to take action under the law. If it fails to take action the ISP is breaking the law by effectively authorizing the infringement, opening itself up to damages claims. One strike and you’re out?
The full case will be heard in October.
Previously: TorrentSpy, One Year After the Shutdown
Next: File-Sharers Face ‘3 Thanks’ for Excessive Downloading
57 Responses
sue sue sue!
American corporations suing an Australian ISP…damn I hate international corporations and globalism.
countersue!
peggysue!
This makes me wanna download a few extra movies…
Is Denmark (Dtecnet)allowed to spy on Australian citicens ?
I’d say it’s a act of war.
Hmm, did I miss something here? I thought it was NZ who were passing all those disconnection laws, not AU….
And I thought NZ hadn’t passed them yet either?
I’m confused :(
Australia isn’t disconnecting people for piracy however people can still be fined.
Whaaaa? By admitting there is something happening that is completely beyond your control you “authorized” it? What?
When I am in a giant glass case and outside there are two guys raping a woman … since I can SEE what they are doing but can’t do ANYTHING about it I authorized them to do so?
These industry fucks need to lay off whatever they’re taking.
Perhaps the most worrying aspect of the case is that according to the studios, as soon as they report an alleged infringement to the ISP, the ISP is now aware that infringement is taking place and is obliged to take action under the law. If it fails to take action the ISP is breaking the law by effectively authorizing the infringement, opening itself up to damages claims.
This sounds pretty heavy. its probably going to happen you know
@6 No! that is not allowed in every country, but that dos’ent mean that F***ing Dtecnet or others can’t share theres tracing & spyings results whit the MPAA or others Su***ers.
And do you think that the Judges or Politicians cares about that kind of results, damn hack NO,
Because whay to bite the hand that feeds you!! It’s right simpile!
Just read the article about “TorrentSpy, One year after the shutdown”
Here is a good clip from the article:
“Money is the gas of the political engine and in 2008 alone the entertainment industry gave $47M to politicians. What do you think these profit obsessed corporations expect in return?”
@ lmao (#9) That is an assertion made by the studios, but is not supported by Australian law.
It will be an interesting case. I suspect iiNet will not admit that it knowingly allowed its customers to infringe copyright because that will likely close many avenues to them for refuting the studios’ claims.
It’s likely to become a test case for Australian law, though, so will bear watching closely to see how it develops.
It’s also interesting to note that iiNet are the ISP responsible for effectively killing the mandatory censorship of Australian Internet traffic by pulling out of the government’s current test of the “great firewall of Australia”.
Seems like the only ISP with any balls in Aus.
Everybody needs to protest this. This kind of thing cannot be left to an outcome in court that is uncertain. People ought to go out there, form some pirates’ union, and protest, and offer massive popular support against AFACT. If there is no protest, then AFACT will eventually able to achieve all of its goals, and surely we do not want that happening.
Pirates of the world, unite!
“This sounds pretty heavy. its probably going to happen you know”
Of course it’s probably going to happen. But only if people refuse to go out there, form a ppirates’ union, and protest. The only reason why this is going to happen is because people refuse to oppose this. If people opposed this, then all of this could be stopped. Australia, after all, is still a free country, or at least Freedom House says so. If there is no protest, if pirates do not form some kind of pirates’ union, then it is almost certain that something like this will happen. The only way to stop this is to unite.
Pirates of the world, unite!
It is good to see an ISP stand up and show some backbone.
No matter what a persons feelings on piracy they should be upset about the guilt upon accusation of this 3 strikes nonsense.
“It is good to see an ISP stand up and show some backbone.”
It would also be good to see individuals themselves stand up and show some backbone. Where is the public outrage at this? But everyone is silent. Each and every pirate ought to break their silence, and protest. Only through unity can there be strength. Pirates of the world, unite!
There’s one thing you need to know about iiNet, they’re not taking this lying down – they’re just letting the studios tie the noose around their own necks so slowly they don’t even realise it.
You’re talking about a company that started literally from a garage in Perth’s outer suburbs, and only moved out of it because their telco provider simply couldn’t fit anymore telephone lines in their street no matter how hard they tried. One of their previous corporate councils was a former chairperson and still active member of EFF Australia, and their executive directors have all grown up in the industry from its grass roots.
Basically, the plaintiffs are going down in a long drawn out fight which is going to end with the plaintiffs being handed their ass on a platter. Just sit back and enjoy the show.
Roze, and why is everyone silent on this issue? Because there is no honor among thieves, Roze. Honor requires the courage of your convictions. Pirates hide so they can steal. There’s a difference.
There are many “pirate organizations”, all of which badly need resources, members, money. Pirates take without paying, Roze, remember? Pirates won’t part with their time or money even when encouraged for their own causes. Jammie begged for defense money from an estimated 400 million pirates around the world and they donated peanuts so she wound up selling thongs. Remember?
Total donations to the Expert Witness Fund that counters the RIAA experts barely tops $8200 from an estimated 400 million pirates around the world. Remember? How much did YOU donate, Roze?
That’s what I thought.
There is no honor among thieves, Roze.
Fail.
PMSL!! Disney is sueing too? Glad to see the aussie children have remembered their convict heritage :P
And come on! haven’t they squeezed enough cash outta that stupid f##king mouse to freeze WALT for eternity?
What I suspect they are trying to do is cause either Aussie/NZ to cave into their demands then use one to place pressure on the other. Somewhat of a corporate bullying technique.
Oi Hollywood! why don’t you try this instead. Demand your laws and threaten Aus/NZ with a boycott should they not be met.
How the fuck is it iiNets fault that people are using BitTorrent?
This will FAIL.
LOL so lets so all DIY markets, they sell equipment used for breaking in ! i know that they know that there might be people that might abuse the tools they might have sold to commit a crime! ;)
“Pirates won’t part with their time or money even when encouraged for their own causes”
Considering that every torrent and shared resource is a time and bandwidth investment by the pirate, with no anticipated gain – financial or otherwise-, you would do well to scrap that argument :)
@18 RM
Roze, and why is everyone silent on this issue? Because there is no honor among thieves, Roze.
I dont know who roze is. However compared to the mpaa/ifpi bottom feeding piranhas who sue grandmothers, dead people and network printers then keep the money. the thieves you mention are saints.
ho hum
next
Sue Ellen! Dallas FTW. JR rules!!!
“I’d say it’s a act of war.” LOL
War between Denmark and Australia might be just a little bit impractical. ;)
I have to agree that there is a worrisom trend here. Since MPAA and IFPI/RIAA cannot go after every single ‘filesharer’ they are starting to sue the ISPs.
This in turn might lead into protective measures taken up by ISPs everywhere and may open up even avenues to self-imposed blocks, bans and disconnects in the future!
@25 Mar 25, 2009 at 16:29 by Anonymous
“This in turn might lead into protective measures taken up by ISPs everywhere and may open up even avenues to self-imposed blocks, bans and disconnects in the future!”
Not if there is public opposition to this kind of thing. Australia is a free country, and if only people are willing to organize some kind of political opposition campaign to this kind of thing, then it could be stopped. But so far, there is no political controversy about this whatsoever – but this is only because pirates choose to remain silent. If only pirates in Australia would break their silence, form some kind of pirates’ union, protest, and carry out a political campaign against AFACT, then everything could change. But there is no political struggle as of yet, there is no political controversy about any of this at all. But this is only because pirates refuse to unite. If pirates do not unite, and refuse to protest and carry out a political campaign, then, since AFACT is politically unopposed, they will get their aims sooner or later. But it could be stopped if only pirates would unite against AFACT in a political movement.
Pirates of the world, unite!
we need more ISPS like this everywhere.
Well, anyways, people, just organize some kind of street protest against AFACT. Even if a street protest is not much, and even if it looks stupid, at least it is better than nothing; it is at least a token effort.
We need to organize some kind of street protest against this. Who’s with me? Say (or write) “Aye!”
I mean, at least protesting against AFACT is better than doing nothing.
Pirates of the world, unite! We need to go out there on the streets and protest; if you’re with me, say “aye!”
I am protesting in my street as i type. I am wearing my pirate bay tee shirt and a patch over my eye. Had a few funny looks from an old man and his dog but apart from that no-ones taking a blind bit of notice. Damn. Dont work Roze. But at least i tried..AYE
This is so lame. Hollywood studios don’t know what else to do.
They don’t realize that fighting this is like fighting against the current in a freakin hurricane!!
@16 Mar 25, 2009 at 14:12 by http://www.10ch.org
yawn.
Rosie, shut the f*ck up. please.
oh peggy…… oh peggy sue……..
hahahah, you should see the internal emails we get about this shit. Hell i work for the one and above. Movie companys should shut up, piss of, and get the law to do shit. ISP are not the law. just the road.
What? You announced the same thing about ‘apptracker’ yesterday and now it happened again “a few mins ago”… Heh.
About protesting against anti-P2P legislation and other activity, we don’t have to go to the streets. It can be done online.
We can email lawmakers, politicians, government officials, organizations and everyone, to let them know what we think and fight that way (under anonymity).
Lets go to the facts:
How much money do the ISP’s earn with file transfer? (Mostly with “illegal” content)?
How many artists were discovered with piracy because theyr music was awsome but they were asking too much for an unknown artist (And a ridiculous 30sec preview in some)?
How many movies were bought after people watch them in theyr pc and loved it so much that it was worth the money for the original?
How much time the anti-piracy peace will last (if one exists) until they need more money from stupid fines?
Wars never end, not until lots of people die, this is a war that will never end, until someone steps up and creates a free antipiracy range ISP, only then we will win.
Just 1 person with suficient knwoledge could make the difference, the rest of the world would contribute instantly, even 1cent from all of us would make the dream come true.
Amen!
This is Complete BS! stoophead how they would single out IINet which is only 3rd largest ISP provider in OZ.
Why ignore the biggest and the 2nd largest? this doesn’t make sense. They might as well call Aussies pirates. Considering OZ had crappy ISP services, OZ/IINet should be your last target. There are tons of other countries that download, better yet. Hosts these actual unauthorized P2P files that they have hooked up on uber fast 1GB lines. This has got to the most ridicolously, most unwaranted, almost dispicable thing to ever pull off. I hope they rot in hell.
From now on, I’m gonna be pirating EVERY SINGLE release those clueless companies releases.
I will NEVER again buy or support their junk since they obviously have nothing better to do with the over priced junk they charge consumers with than this kind of misguided and pointless schemes.
Now I’m actually quite disgusted with my previous purchases. I’ll rip and share them first thing in the morning.
That will be my KCUF UOY! right back towards them.
“About protesting against anti-P2P legislation and other activity, we don?t have to go to the streets. It can be done online.
We can email lawmakers, politicians, government officials, organizations and everyone, to let them know what we think and fight that way (under anonymity).”
Protests can never be effective if people do not at least see each other. If there is an “online protest,” then people will only think that some signals are going through some wires, and nobody will care. People care about real live protests.
” People care about real live protests.”
That’s true Roze. And lawmakers can only react to their constituents when they have the courage to speak up and speak out for what they believe in.
The fact that Basement Dweller advocates opinion anonymously–with zero courage or conviction– is exactly why piracy will ultimately fail. Pirates are thieving cowards destroying good peoples privacy online. End of story.
I wish there weren’t so many copyright laws. It’s such B.S. In this economy, no one it going to the movie theaters to pay 20 bucks to see a showing when we (pirates) can easily torrent it at home.
@8
The ISP I’m with (in Australia) has a 3 strike policy. I learnt the good way =]
new world order-corporate globalism-we are fucked!
@ 42 Mar 25, 2009 at 21:13 by Reasoned Mind
Haha, No start of story! greedy media companies, politicians on the take just engage in fear and extortion all for the sake of money. Well I hope Village Roadshow, Universal Pictures, Warner Bros Entertainment, Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, Disney Enterprises, Inc. and the Seven Network all choke on their money. We may be “thieving cowards” but we came up with the tech that’s destroying your redundant business.
iinet won’t admit anything as file sharing is not stealing.
Nub cakes…..I mean retarded mind u know your going down with the rest of corporate whores, can’t wait for 2010
2010 FTW :0)
@ Dissenter.
Look around you. It’s been closing in for years and the closing won’t stop. The only thing you’ll succeed in “destroying” is the privacy we all once enjoyed on the network.
Hope you like your free movies and stuff. You are illegal and not terribly smart. You traded your liberties for it.
@Reasoned Mind
I do enjoy my free movies and music and games and software, thanks for asking. I think you’re being a bit melodramatic with the other stuff tho. Look around you, the world has changed, move with it, or get left behind.
“Protests can never be effective if people do not at least see each other.”
Well, I do not have research to counter your claim above, but I do know that there was recently a large uproar on the Internet in my country about certain actions of the government and eventually they retracted their plan.
I do not know if it was in any part or how big a part due to the online action, but perhaps you or someone else can offer some evidence to back up the claim. On the other hand I know several large IRL demonstations that produced nothing!
@ 12 Mar 25, 2009 at 13:32 by flagg1209
“It’s also interesting to note that iiNet are the ISP responsible for effectively killing the mandatory censorship of Australian Internet traffic by pulling out of the government’s current test of the “great firewall of Australia”.
Seems like the only ISP with any balls in Aus.”
Unfortunately they haven’t killed the “great firewall of Australia” as there are still a number of small ISP’s that are stupid enough to sign up for it.
Also they aren’t the only ISP with balls in Australia, most of the rest, including the two largest told the govenrment to go get fuc%ed when asked to participate in the trial in the first place.
Also, the reason why these MPAA wannabe’s went after the third largest ISP is they know it’s still tiny in comparison to the two largest and is a much easier target with less resources for their legal team. Tackle the small fry, set a precedent in court then use it to shaft the rest.
These parasites and their legal representatives should all go somewhere and die.
Proxy server. End of story.
HOw much does canadian tire make with hammer sales that were used in the harm of others WE NEED TO BAN HAMMERS AND MAKE CANADIAN TIRE PAY NOW
while were at it all the BASEBALL BAT MANUFACTURERS and GUN MAKERS BEWARE THIS IS THE SAME FIGHT FOR YOU
YOUR MAKING MONEY OFF VIOLENCE AND CRIME WE NEED TO GET RID OF ALL GUNS AND BATS
How do the studios show that copyrighted files are being downloaded? Just with file-names?
So, if I put up some 3MB text files with file-names that contain the title of currently popular tracks, does that invalidate their claim? Since the file-names in not concrete proof of a copyright law being broken?
I’m starting to think retarded mind is a web spider as it says the same same crap over & over again & doesn’t respond to my posts, either that or it knows it’s going down soon. & I love the FUD, “it’s closing in” hahahaha, retarded mind is getting more & more retarded every day :0)
Disregard me, I suck cocks.
Redtarded Mind is just like all of the other MAFIAAtards: incapable of doing anything but parroting media cartel propaganda.
Go on, keep deceiving yourself into thinking that way – it won’t change the fact that the rest of us know how wrong you are.
Dam retards
i am an aussie AND i use iinet for my internet
they are a great isp they try to do the right thing and they admit when they fuck up and make it right.
they made there name years ago with offering reasionable deals with internet when the big players “telstra and optus” where charging people over $200 for less then 5GB a month downloads and that was only 6 years ago not the freaking dark ages.
They are a good company and i proudly support them.
now excuse me i need to go and short the stock of some assholes.
Interesting thought, can a free to air TV station be sued when I record my fav TV show to watch later?. If they are unaware, I could inform them and would this then have an impossible consequence of them cutting off the signal to my TV?
So iinet will make their decision on the 1st of April? Well at least we can rest assured, any decision being made on this special day (April Fools Day) will not warrant any serious implications.
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