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ISP: Secret Anti-BitTorrent Piracy Talks Are Failing

As part of their never-ending quest to reduce copyright infringement major entertainment companies have been engaged in talks with ISPs and representatives from the Australian government. Worryingly, these meetings have been held in secret and all attempts to obtain information are being stonewalled. But now an ISP has revealed that the talks are failing, noting that there is a “massive gap” between the parties.

After their failed attempt at making ISP iiNet responsible for the copyright infringements of its file-sharing customers, it was never likely that the Hollywood studios and their Australian counterparts would give up on the piracy fight.

“ISPs hold the key to reducing online movie and TV theft by 72%,” the headline of a now-debunked anti-piracy lobby group report shouted in September 2011.

But the pressure on ISPs had only just begun. Since September a series of meetings have been held between the entertainment companies and Aussie ISPs, all under the watchful eye of the Federal Attorney-General’s Department. The aim: to come to an agreement on what to do about illicit file-sharing.

It won’t come as a surprise to those familiar with the way ACTA was ‘negotiated’ that these meetings have all been held behind closed doors. Incensed by this and the fact that both content creators and Internet users have been locked out, journalist Renay LeMay at tech news site Delimiter has been making Freedom of Information requests to find out what has been going on. He has been stonewalled every step of the way.

Finally last week the Attorney-General’s Department sent LeMay five documents, but disappointingly nearly of the information contained within had been redacted.

While the documents did reveal the groups and companies in attendance – AFACT, Music Industry Piracy Investigations, the Communications Alliance, Telstra, iiNet and the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy – the names of individuals were redacted along with the meetings’ agendas.

The Attorney General’s senior legal officer Jane Purcell told LeMay that “..disclosure of the documents while the negotiations are still in process, would, in my view, prejudice, hamper and impede those negotiations to an unacceptable degree. That would, in my view, be contrary to the interests of good government — which would, in turn, be contrary to the public interest.”

But after LeMay accused ISP iiNet of compromising its integrity by participating in the closed-door meetings, iiNet chief regulatory officer Steve Dalby gave a general insight into the current state of play.

“The gap between rightsholders and ISPs is massive,” said Dalby. “Just because we meet doesn’t mean that we are skulking around the back corridors of the Attorney-General’s Department clasping sweaty palms with those same opponents. Meeting isn’t agreement.”

“Most, if not all of the discussions over the years have been conducted between the rightsholders and the ISPs. These have been fruitless. The rightsholders want all the benefits of remedial action, but want the ISPs to foot the bill. ISPs don’t want to pay to protect the rights of third parties.”

Noting that “the gap between the parties is considerable and unlikely to close”, Dalby countered claims that something evil might be going on in the meetings.

“I understand that it is not very exciting if a bunch of boring businessmen continue to meet and get nowhere – compared to the idea that some super secret cabal is conspiring to turn the goodies to the Dark Side, so that Australian consumers are sold into economic slavery controlled by the faceless henchmen of Hollywood,” he added.

But in any event the people still want transparency and now politicians say they want answers too. Yesterday, Greens Communications spokesperson Scott Ludlam filed an order in the Senate asking the government to disclose what went on during the most recent meeting held in February.

“Even with the best will in the world, simply inviting the intermediaries to come up with something that suits their collective commercial interests is hardly an encouraging recipe for looking after the public interest,” said Ludlam. “I acknowledge that ISPs have done their best to prevent predatory behaviour by rights holders in the past, but there’s no substitute for a diversity of views in a forum such as this.”

And that is the key to success – an open forum. It’s perhaps understandable that the rightsholders and ISPs don’t want their personal arguments heard in public. But by not allowing the people whose habits they hope to change get involved, it leads away from greater cooperation and understanding and towards suspicion and isolation. Piracy reductions definitely won’t be found at the end of that road.

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  • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

    The bottom line is that ANY governmental meetings should be public, unless they have some military secrets that would harm the military at this very moment in them.

    On another point, apparently I am going to have to harp on this in every single thread: MOST PIRACY IS NOT TRUE PIRACY! It is people doing legal timeshifting of TV shows, music, etc. that they have already paid for in some manner.

    These companies want you to pay MORE THAN ONCE for everything you want to listen to, just because you want to listen to it on another device. That is totally outrageous and needs to be stomped immediately by the lawmakers, giving people back their right to rip DVD’s, CD’s, etc. legally as long as they own those things OR have already paid for something like a cable TV subscription.

    • Resin

      “giving people back their right to rip DVD’s, CD’s, etc. legally as long as they own those things OR have already paid for something like a cable TV subscription.”

      I’m confused. Are you saying that because someone owns a radio in their car, that means that they own the music? Because if they don’t, I’m not seeing why they should automatically own the music.

      I don’t see how CDs play into this either. People already have the right to rip those. That’s not even counted as piracy by RIAA, because they already know they lost there.

      Also, I don’t own a cable TV subscription because I have piracy. I’m willing to bet there’s a correlation there for the general population.

      That also doesn’t cover gaming piracy, where none of it falls under that umbrella.

      No offense, but it seems like you’re ignoring some key issues in favor of just trying to make pirates seem morally acceptable, which doesn’t seem helpful.

      • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

        I’m willing to bet there’s a correlation there for the general population.

        I’d dig a few studies that prove the contrary but, seriously, Google them. You lost your bet btw.

        No offense, but it seems like you’re ignoring some key issues in favor of just trying to make pirates seem morally acceptable, which doesn’t seem helpful.

        Actually, he must be talking from personal experience. I download the pirate games before buying. I download tons of songs I wouldn’t buy anyways (and it must be some type of OCD cause I have the urge to download the whole album and I don’t listen to 50% of what I download). I seldom download movies and when I do it’s because my favorite video rental doesn’t have what I want or it’s region locked. I download shitloads of TV series, specially Japanese animation. Because I’m NOT buying everything because I don’t have money and they don’t air when I want.

        You see, those key issues actually make the pirates seem much better and common and it’s pretty helpful. Unless you are some MAFIAA troll.

        • Resin

          “I’d dig a few studies that prove the contrary but, seriously, Google them. You lost your bet btw.”

          I did Google them. I found the obvious studies linking total spending to likelihood to pirate, but I found nothing linking piracy rates to cable subscription rates. So, no, I haven’t lost.

          “You see, those key issues actually make the pirates seem much better and common and it’s pretty helpful. ”

          I disagree. Creating strong claims based on personal experience only is not helpful, it makes us look foolish. If I said that because my nephew is a rich college student who refuses to pay for anything (he is) all pirates are greedy, you’d blast me for not having anything verifiable. Well, I blast Kidwell for the same reason. He’s arguing based on what he thinks (actually, what he feels), and he’s making us look as if we can’t argue based on data. When he starts arguing that most piracy is not true piracy, it doesn’t make us look sympathetic or common, it makes it look like we’re dishonest and are arguing based on semantics, not on reality.

          In addition, he’s not just saying “in my experience”, he’s claiming that most/all pirates are like this. What you say he’s doing (and what you’d probably like him to do), and what he’s actually doing are separate things.

        • Samurai

          99% of my bittorrent downloads are HD television shows. I don’t feel like I’m doing anything wrong because I pay good money for a full cable package every month, movie channels and all. It’s all about convenience. Point, click, watch. I don’t have to track anything. I don’t have to set timers and constantly make sure their accurate. Bittorrent is dead simple and worry free because someone else is doing all the work for me. The PVR my provider gave me is annoyingly slow and clunky compared to my PC too. I’d be happy to pay for this service, but not with all the crap the media industry has been pulling (SOPA!?!?!) which is causing me to slowly lose my conviction that I’d be willing to pay. In the long run I believe they’ll have done more harm to themselves than pirates could ever do, the damn fools.

      • Anyone

        we might have the right to rip those, but if they have copy protection it is illegal to circumvent those (same with DVDs, Blurays, DRM on MP3, etc.), so technically it is no longer legal to copy that CD, DVD, etc.

        just one more way how the MAFIAA tried to screw people in the past.

        as for paying multiple time for the same game: google “online pass” if you are not already familiar with it

        • Resin

          “if they have copy protection it is illegal to circumvent those (same with DVDs, Blurays, DRM on MP3, etc.), so technically it is no longer legal to copy that CD, DVD, etc.”

          False. Circumvention of DRM has been consistently held to be legal in U.S. courts. Companies can add as much DRM as they want, but consumers can strip it away perfectly legally. Then, they can make copies for personal use, as fair use dictates and as courts have upheld.

          I know what an online pass is, and I also know that online passes don’t make you pay for the same game twice, they make you pay for the use of a company’s servers. It’s a foolish business strategy, but it’s disassociated from piracy. Piracy deals with the acquisition of the data behind a game, not the use of data once it is acquired.

        • Anyone

          I didn’t know that about US law, but it is still illegal in some countries in Europe, for example Germany (even though there was a recent case that linking to circumvention software is indeed legal)
          that is the problem with discussing such things in an international forum, each country has different ways how the MAFIAA screwed it ;)

          online do not make you pay for company’s servers since it is also needed for offline features
          and yes, like all DRM it is bullshit and only hurts the customer actually willing to pay for the game.

          I really don’t understand your definition of piracy

        • Anon

          “online do not make you pay for company’s servers since it is also needed for offline features”

          That’s not an online pass, that’s always-on DRM. There’s a big difference. An online pass makes you pay (or have a code from buying a game new) to use company servers for online play. An online pass will affect nothing about the single-player game. Always-on DRM forces you to keep the game online for it to work. I’d call that illegal, but then again, Steam gets away with that, so I’m not sure how to judge it.

          Actually, steam isn’t really “always-online” so much as “online, then play”, so I guess that’s the difference.

          Anyway, I think that’s the miscommunication between you two.

          As for his definition of piracy, I think he’s just being technical about it. The act of acquiring the game is piracy.

      • Nope

        Raido is free, television is not. You pay for the service. Television companies also make you sit though fucking ads on a paid service. There is no difference between downloading a show and DVRing it.

        Do you know why CD’s are so expensive? It’s because there is a tax on them as they are ‘intended’ for use to pirating digital media so says RIAA. Same thing they said about cassette tapes.

        • Guest

          “There is no difference between downloading a show and DVRing it. ”

          A better point. I’d probably counter by saying that there is a difference between recording and downloading, and the difference is between copying from a service you have paid for and copying from something that you haven’t paid for. That doesn’t strike me as being a particularly strong argument though.

          That of course still leaves music and game piracy up in the air, but oh well.

          I didn’t say anything about the price of CDs, and I don’t intend to now.

        • Anyone

          Radio is also not free in some countries
          on the other hand TV is free in some countries

          it’s a crazy world we’re living in.

        • Myflytrap

          Yes, free t.v. does exist. Very limited channels but it does exist.

  • http://www.notebooknerds.com/ Buy Laptop

    Has anyone else noticed that these lawsuits are starting to become more frequent? I am seeing a worrying trend… torrentfreak is normally good mixed with bad, but as of recent, it’s been a lot of bad.

    • Andy P

      Not all bad. The Mega Upload case seems to be (possibly) changing somewhat for the better. I hope they do find there wasn’t sufficient due-process and Dot Com gets all his shit back. Wouldn’t that be a hoot?

    • Anonymous

      There is usually more bad than good news by default.

      We, the site owners and the ISPs just want to get on with our lives and to conduct our business unmolested and we have little need for lawyers and courts.

      The Copyright Cartels are the aggressors leading to many negative stories as they bully and harass the market.

      It is not all bad news though like AFACT did lose their case against iiNet and now these Copyright Cartels make no progress in closed door meeting. So Australia currently worries me little unlike those ISPs in the US who have now sold out their subscribers to higher subscription prices and an enforcement scheme that does not follow Copyright law. They are only heading towards a big anti-trust violation there when major organizations are not allowed Governmental-like powers over the population that are then abused for their own commercial gain,

      • Abaranger

        Its considered, well written and articulated responses like this that keep me reading the replies long after the main article.

    • Anonymous

      And the ‘good’ seems like bullshit made up to seem ‘good’.

    • Anonymous

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    • MadAsASnake

      The ramping up of the lawsuits and stuff isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It smacks of desparation and more organisations are standing up to it. It will get to a point where MAFIAA simply cannot continue to finance it. Wouldn’t surprise me if they are already pumping more money into lawsuits and bribing politicians than any genuine losses inflicted through the Internet. Remove the Internet, people will simple share the old way like they always did.

      • Anyone

        there are no “genuine losses” from piracy, every independent (not MAFIAA funded) confirms that.

        • MadAsASnake

          Oh, I do agree. The “losses” come from MAFIAA trying to strangle new opportunities. If they embraced the Internet and made intelligent market offerings, they’d make a killing. I’m finding it diffiicult to see why the content industries finance these morons – MAFIAA is dead weight not just on society, but especially on content producers.

        • Guest

          @madasasnake. i had the same interesting question. But i found a clue to the answer: When one’s access to cultural/entertainement products increases exponantialy through the internet, that person simply stops watching tv programs (an experiment held by yours trully). So one of the big losers would be the TV industry. this might explain why the content productions behave in such a, (apparently) stupid manner.

        • Anonymous

          @MadAsASnake

          ” If they embraced the Internet and made intelligent market offerings, they’d make a killing.”

          Corrections

          1) ARTISTS would stand to make a killing by embracing the internet. Or at least the geniuses would. There would be far less room for the “flavor of the week”-created six-week-wonder coughed up as a short-term panacea for teens and pre-teens.

          2) The massive giants of today would melt like a snowy drizzle in hell.

          The stakeholders in the media industry knows both of these facts which is why they are willing to spend their last dollar, if need be, for just one more year of the old paradigm.

        • MadAsASnake

          @Scary_Devil_Monastery
          There will continue to be a place in the market for the big studios. While the Internet is a game changer for distribution, it is much less so for production. A slick, well produced movie full of CGI, marketed well globally needs a lot of resources. There are few indies that can compete in that arena, so the big studios are and remain relevant. Kids lap up well produced Disney… It’s a bit more open for music, but the power is shifting to the musicians – the Internet gives them real choice. Even here though, a slick and well marketed production does not come cheap. The Internet isn’t all good – while it’s easy to put stuff on the net, a lot of it is total crap, and there are plenty of opportunities to market services that promote good stuff and sift the crap out. Trust becomes the real value of a service. Google survives on brand trust, and much of what it does is just that.

  • Hmm

    this say,s it all The rightsholders want all the benefits of remedial action, but want the ISPs to foot the bill. ISPs don’t want to pay to protect the rights of third parties.”

    • MadAsASnake

      Nor should ISPs (and therefore it’s customers) pay for it. The costs are so disproportionate that it’s ridiculous. DMCA placed these costs on the copyright holders for a good reason.

  • Rukumouru

    Buy Laptop, things get much worse before they get better. Copyright trolling and such shit will rise until it reaches a critical mass and then it will implode spectacularly. Riots and shit, happens all the time throughout history.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    Ultimartely secret talks and any resultant agreement with the MAFIAA is always bound to fail, especially when internet user representatives are not present.

    The long term outcome would be for smaller ISPs not party to any agreement finding themselves with many new subscribers.

    Someone is always likely to break ranks to gain an edge on the competition. I mean, how moronic for any ISP to enter talks that are intended to harm their users.

    Even if people get throttled or terminated someone will break ranks to supply the market.

    • OMGWTFBBQ

      Not just that, the MAFIAA does not seem to understand that people adapt and that pirates adapt faster. As easy as: you filter, we encrypt. You block, we proxy. It all works like the DRM cases, it only hurts paying customers not pirates. Because what pirates download doesnt have DRM anymore.

      Only one person in the world has to find a workaround, the rest copy. You can not win a fight against the collective creative thinking of the entire world… The internet is our victory, we won when it was conceived.

      It is as human as it is to share culture: ‘No’ means ‘challenge’.

      http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3505627_460s.jpg

    • MadAsASnake

      If they want the population to veiw this process as legitimate, it has to be transparent. As MAFIAA are finding, they may have the ability to impose awful laws through back-door processes, but enforcing them is nigh on impossible. It would be good to see a few ISPs making a public statement refusing to meet in closed venues – only open ones. That way they don’t get painted as the bad guys.

      • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

        I love this idea because that’s exactly what all this comes down to. The MAFIAA is afraid to make it public because public concensus is not in their favour. The public, they believe, are selfish jackasses. You can’t trust them with decisions like this.

        This attitude leads to paranoia about what secret cabals are getting up to behind everyone’s backs. And is it really paranoia when such talks result in SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/TPP? I really think people have just cause to be paranoid.

        Fix it. Bring the whole thing public with full disclosure, make the whole process transparent. Create an open forum about what you want and what ‘they’ want. We may surprise you…at the very least, we won’t blame our service providers for selling us out behind closed doors.

    • FBI RATS

      I Did just that two years ago. When Virgin and BT are sending out three strikes letters, i wont have that problem for years. I would say the ISP’s name. but the trolls will read it and add the ISP to their shit list. Go “cencored name broadband” fuck Sky, BT and Virgin

  • Anonymous

    i wonder what the entertainment industries would say if ISPs wanted them to pay to replace broadband cables? i suspect it may be a rather large ‘FUCK OFF’, dont you? so why should ISPs or anyone else pay to keep the entertainment industries files off the internet? even more importantly, what company would lose out itself because it passed personal details of it’s own customers to a third party? the entertainment industries have had and still have the opportunity to make a fortune from the internet but refuse to do what customers want. therefore, fail, you arse holes, fail!!

    • FBI RATS

      The idea is the ISP’s are responsible for “infringements” because they have the power to stop them.
      With that logic car manufacturers can stop their drivers from speeding, just put a 70mph limiter in every car. But they don’t. Why, because there is no money to be made by stopping people from speeding.
      There is however, a lot of money to be made if you can restricting the supply of goods. As supply goes down, prices go up and value and choice decrease as the industry try’s to restrict and control how and what the viewer watches… This is all very good news for any failing media company as they will have lower standards to compete with.

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  • Anon

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again ISP’s need to be careful. If they start policing and restricting internet users will we need 100MB broadband?

    I can view my emails and the odd website on my mobile phone. The only reason I’ve got my high speed internet account is for Netflix and filesharing TV episodes I’ve missed when they were aired. If they take away my ability to fileshare I will cancel my account as Netflix are beginning to rub me the wrong way for supporting the MPAA.

    • Anonymous

      Not only that, but if ISPs start policing their pipes for copyright infringement (which is NOT theft by any stretch) then that makes them also liable for actively policing child pornography without being alerted to it on their network, slippery slope indeed, just tell the RIAA/MPAA to FUCK OFF.

      • Guest

        nobody gives a sheet about child abuse among these business people, the only thing they care about is greenbacks. I wish for someone to stick a suitcase of dollars up their asses

        • Anonymous

          But they certainly WOULD care about terrorism being brought up, as the ISPs can be done for obstruction and impeding a police investigation to say otherwise.

        • Anonymous

          That’s not the point.

          Imagine law as it stands. Currently you can do jail time only if convicted by a court of law. Now, imagine that you can ram such an ass-backwards law into existence which allows a third party to send you to jail for, say, repetitive jaywalking. No proof required, nor a day in court.

          The world will suddenly consist of two types of people – those who find the new law moronic and want it abolished – and those who think it stinks that theft, assault, drunk driving and tax evasion still requires a day in court and burden of proof to be observed.

          One of those sides will win. The slippery slope is not only inevitable, the progression is fairly predictable as well.

          If a 3rd party can censor anyone for copying a media file then the hurdle has been placed so low in the ground that everything else just walks across it.

      • FBI RATS

        They wont remove child pornography from the net, their job is to deal with the important issues like removing lost episodes from the net or maybe shutting down some fan sites. I really believe, they don’t give a shit about children but they will use children to change laws and opinion in their favor. But thats not a surprise cos they are use everyone…. ISP’s, government, law enforcement, the courts, public opinion…. all being used

  • Mis

    ISP please invoke your common carrier rights. Stand up and by that right. Make the public see you are just a pipe.

    • Anonymous

      Some ISPs in the USA started to throw common carrier status out the window, in favour of having Phorm/NebuAd spying for profit, and also DNS NXDOMAIN hijacking, yep common carrier status is dead, get over it.

  • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

    The CopyWrong Cartel are insane, greed-fuelled megalomaniacs who think they have a right to dictate to market operators (such as the ISPs and their millions of customers) how their thieved ‘product’ is distributed and sold.

    Well here’s some news for free. The internet exists and we, the end-user, shall dictate to YOU what WE WANT, when we want it, how we want it AND how much we’ll pay to get it – if anything. Your monopolistic cartel is no more so either adapt to the New World Order or die.

    You CANNOT and shall not survive without a radical change in attitude toward the content creators AND us, the end-users. Your secret talks with ISPs are just silly and will get you nowhere.

    • Theboywiththethorninhisside

      You might think that you “the end-user, shall dictate to YOU what WE WANT, when we want it, how we want it AND how much we’ll pay to get it – if anything.” but here’s some news for you for free. Once ISPs see you and your freetard attitude as “greed-fuelled megalomaniacs who think they have a right to dictate to market operators (such as the ISPs)” costing them more than they make you’ll be shat on, by them, from a great height.

      • Rhidians

        And let me guess .. when some one shits on you from a great height … you open your mouth and go ..”Hmm nice can I have some more ?”
        Maybe I missed the point of being a consumer and being able to shop around or a citizen where by I can choose what laws I agree with.. then again.. maybe I didn’t

        • Theboywiththethorninhisside

          The point you missed is that nobody is denying anyone the the right to shop around for an isp. However, they are businesses and if certain customers end up costing them money or breaking their T&C’s they will refuse them continued service – it’s that simple.

      • Danny

        Moronic troll!

      • HollywoodAnnaOO

        You are clearly very misguided, whoever taught you this tripe needs firing from their position of authority, as you have been fed a bunch of farcical nonsense. The ISP, as anyone with any knowledge regarding the Internet knows, is merely a conduit, a carrier, and is not (and will never be) responsible for the actions of it’s users. Tarring those users with a pithy word such as “freetard” (that you just picked up from El Reg) is irrelevant here.
        Let me say this though, I am impressed that you can correctly spell the word “megalomaniac”, even though you have no understanding of it’s meaning and how it simply does not work in the context in which you are using it.
        I am also impressed at your refrain from the use of profanities until the very last sentence. Well done.

        • Theboywiththethorninhisside

          Let’s take a look at your argument.

          You state “The ISP, as anyone with any knowledge regarding the Internet knows, is merely a conduit, a carrier, and is not (and will never be) responsible for the actions of it’s users.”

          That is, currently, as may be. However, as pirates and proponents of piracy love to remind people “Things change, you need to move with technology”. That’s exactly what the courts and rights holders are doing. They are taking the advice of pirates and adapting to change. Unfortunately for pirates and copyright infringers their own prophecy is self fulfilling and self defeating.

          I’m not at all surprised that your literary handicap prevents you from realizing that I wasn’t “using” the word nor its context. I cut and pasted from the original post. No kudos due (sarcastic or otherwise) but thanks anyway.

      • Guest

        I have to agree. People forget that being a consumer doesn’t mean that you automatically get everything you want at the lowest possible price. That’s not how capitalism works. Capitalism works by giving you the lowest cost SOMEONE IS WILLING TO OFFER. That’s all anyone is entitled to. If they think it could be better, then they can start a business of their own and MAKE IT BETTER. Otherwise, they can stop bitching.

        Oh, and that’s just for the ISPs, piracy works slightly differently.

        • Anyone

          piracy is a perfect example of capitalism working; people don’t want to buy silly plastic discs, so someone else offers an alternative.

          and itunes, netflix or steam all prove that capitalism continues to work and that you actually can compete with free if you offer a good service.

        • Guest

          Piracy isn’t an example of capitalism, it’s an example of populist distribution. The two are not incompatible, but capitalism deals only with businesses, not with production by individuals. In the same way that you wouldn’t call someone building a house for themselves an example of capitalism, you can’t call piracy capitalism.

          All of those services work on the assumption that paid services can provide a better service than pirate ones. I’m interested in seeing how long that holds true.

  • Anonymous

    Well I did say before that these negotiations would get nowhere. After the AFACT (and the Copyright Cartels) lost their court fight against iiNet then they only switched to more bullying and threats under a “do what we say or law changes follow” theme.

    iiNet really has no love for them and would do much to oppose them. Most should be aware that if you give these Copyright Cartels an inch then they would soon insist on an extra mile and then more miles beyond that. So you do have to say “no” to them followed by “I only follow the law” even if that helped MU none.

    The Government would prefer to keep their hand out of this one but as each day passes that seems less likely. These ISPs would much prefer to walk away from these series of meetings but they don’t so they don’t appear to be the bad ones.

    Well after their loss AFACT is not the one to go home with their tail between the legs only to say “I was wrong”. Instead all they say is “These ISPs are wrong, the law is wrong and the vast majority of the public are wrong”

    • MadAsASnake

      It’s like dealing with 3 year olds. The more you relent, the more they demand. A firm no up front is the best strategy.

  • wooot

    what to do about online piracy. this is like asking the definition of justice. nobody will agree because it’s impossible as humans and ultimately nothing will be accomplished regarding what to do. so nothing will be done. which is what i personally want. and i think u do too

    • Abc

      “Good is what you like. Evil is what you don’t like”
      LaVey

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    I do like the Aussie ISP attitude, that not only are they against anything to harm their users, If anything is imposed it should be at the cost of rightsholders’

    Sadly with the DEA in the UK (if it ever comes into force) users get stuffed whether they pirate or not as ISPs are stuck with much of the policing and appels costs.

    The last thing the MAFIAA want is to get stung with the costs of imposing the types of measures they are after. It exposes the simple truth that the loss figures they peddle are knowingly fraudulent and the costs of any measures far outweigh any true cost of piracy let alone the reduction they predict will occur. If they had faith in their own predictions they would gladly foot the bill as they would be quids in, but they know too well they are chasing non existent losses.

    • MadAsASnake

      This is exactly what is needed. If the the costs are firmly and finally placed where they belong (with MAFIAA), they can have all the protections they want. The economics of it will never work.

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  • foff

    It is interesting that US isp’s said they would start to implement somethings in the middle of the summer which is just about the time the Olympics start. You can be sure that when they do the fbi will suddenly shutter a few streaming sites. The question is why do they only act on big events like the Superbowl or Olympics but the rest of the year they do nothing.

    In the end US isp’s will wind up like the Aussie ips’s after appearing to cooperate they will stop after they realize the cost. The us already has an internet problem with wireless. You have ipads and other pads and 4g phones that will be capable of receiving hd streams but right now hd streams are useless due to caps of 2 gigs which can easily be used up in a day or two.

    By the same token if land line isp’s put caps and start monitoring they stand to lose a lot of business. Soon ups and other carriers might see a lot of business shipping thumb drives.

    Remember Digital = Public Domain the public has already decided whether rights holders which are mostly 3rd party like it or not.

  • Beyond the Black Stump

    I wonder if this has anything to do with:

    A) Australia is slowly but surely rolling out the National Broadband Network which when users are connected, offers 100 mbits/sec download speeds.

    B) The ISPs currently in talks with AFACT all offer a product called FetchTV.

    From what I’ve seen of FetchTV it doesn’t seem to have much to offer, however if FetchTV becomes lucrative for ISPs to sell, then they would need to get rid of any competition such as Bittorrents.

    I’ll take my tinfoil cap off now :)

    • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

      You may very well be correct…but why would they think it makes sense to kill off competition before introducing an alternative? Why not release felchTV and then go from there if it fails?

      Oh wait, i know, it’s a monopoly. They can’t handle competition.

      Frankly this goes the world over, not just Auswegia. If they’d release new releases and TV episodes on Netflix, there would be no issue. The infrastructure is already there, they’re just afraid of it chipping away at their box office profits, so people turn to free, which definitely chips away at box office profits.

      It works in practice. I would rather turn on the xbox and watch newsradio on netflix than download the entire series and worry about whether my dvd player will play the format that’s available for download. You can compete with free just by making it easier to use. But the MAFIAA have already demonstrated they have no goodwill, no ability to work towards a common goal, and no good sense. There’s a reason the breed is becoming extinct, it’s called evolution.

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  • AUS149

    Why Australia? We get TV content a year after its shown in America, either make it available in a timely fashion or else people have no choice but to download a pirated version.

    • D774408

      This is starting to change. BBC stuff is turning up much faster on our networks than it used to.

    • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

      That’s exactly why they’re going after Australia. We screw you over and then wait for you to look for alternatives before suing you for going for the only viable options instead of eating our shit and smiling.

      Sounds like entrapment to me.

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  • Anonymous

    Where will it end? Our online privacy rights are more at risk than most can even begin to understand. The privacy rights that we are supposedly afforded in life don’t translate to our online lives. When we send a letter we have a reasonable expectation of privacy. The letter will arrive at its destination, unopened. Sadly, this is not the case online.

    You can stop ISP’s from snooping on you and protect your privacy by getting an encrypted tunnel like hushtunnel.com and clearing evercookies (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evercookie).

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  • http://www.facebook.com/ValhallaLegend Andrew Lee

    There is no reason any action that would play a part in everyone’s lives should be discussed in secret. We already get enough of that from the governments and their shady ways.
    To be honest if they would just come out and say their actions was because they’re a bunch of greedy assholes I would at least maybe respect them a little lmao..

    Look at Bill Clinton with the I smoked pot but I did not inhale & I did not have sexual relations with that woman. If he just said he needed some strange I would have been like good for you! Can we up the limit you’re in office since we were actually in the green.

    We’ve had to deal with Bush Sr and Jr that are both equally retarded and now Obama that’s even a bigger puppet. Plus all the greedy sobs are bending over backwards to blow him to get their way.

    Well I hope they all choke to death on it.

    They love to classify people that’s for file sharing as hardcore criminals on par with child killers. I guess I will classify every single person that’s against file sharing no different from Adolf Hitler.

    Troll me if you like but I refuse to reply to a Nazi,terrorist,baby killer,chomo and any other sick thing you can come up with.

    I’m sure someday when it get’s bad enough people will wake up and rid the earth of this scum.

    • IFUXXSYSTEMS

      What the fuck is a chomo?

    • IFUXXSYSTEMS

      Just googled it.
      Im bollocksed

  • Rekrul

    The ISPs should just tell the media companies to fuck off. The country needs the internet, they don’t really need movies and music. When the entertainment industry demands that they do more to combat piracy, they should turn off their networks and say “There you go, we’ve just stopped 100% of the internet piracy happening through our network. Happy?” Let’s see how long the media companies and the government last in the face of millions of people and businesses screaming for their internet access to be restored.

    • Wbrschdr

      Fantastic idea.
      I wanna see that happen.
      And I wanna see the mobs marching to mafiaa employees houses because of it.

      LMAO

      • FBI RATS

        Very good idea. Just switch off all the major ISP’s for a week in the name of stopping piracy. That would cause a stir I’m sure. BUT might unfortunately loose the ISP’s a lot of business i would think and they’d have customers angry at the ISP, Not the copyright trolls as intended. Because most Internet connection owners don’t even know the media industry has been fu**ing with their inet for years

      • Guest

        “Mobs marching to ISP’s employees’ houses because of it”

        Fixed that for ya.

    • Guest

      Wonderful idea. And then, when one ISP turns off their network, their customers can go to another company who didn’t disrupt their service.

  • Timmy

    At this rate, Big Media will push for legislation to install electronic surveillance in all our homes, so that they can put us all in jail for humming tunes to ourselves.

    • MadAsASnake

      Ad of course, they’ll want us to pay for the equipment and for our neighbours to monitor it. Mao tried that (for other reasons) and it caused untold damage to society.

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  • Guest

    “I understand that it is not very exciting if a bunch of boring businessmen continue to meet and get nowhere – compared to the idea that some super secret cabal is conspiring to turn the goodies to the Dark Side, so that Australian consumers are sold into economic slavery controlled by the faceless henchmen of Hollywood,”

    What an epic response. I laughed :)

  • http://www.freshersnation.com/ freshersnation

    Has anyone else noticed that these lawsuits are starting to become more frequent? I am seeing a worrying trend… torrentfreak is normally good mixed with bad, but as of recent, it’s been a lot of bad.

  • IFUXXSYSTEMS

    Rich people in secretive meetings.
    Deciding what to do with us.
    Well I’ve decided what to do with them.

    • FBI RATS

      You’ve decided to rip out their Spinal cords?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/2HY5R6VAPKRX3U4KHT3LG2QAIU Dave

    Since being threatened by admin team members of filesharingtalk.com, I hope all you freetards get shutdown.

    • nil

      pics or it didnt happen

    • Anonymous

      Well, if that’s the tone you took with them I would love to see any forum where you wouldn’t be at least banned.

    • FBI RATS

      Typical moronic attitude. Someone did something to you and so you take out your anger at random group of people on a news site. No wonder humans are doomed lol

  • Anonymous

    in all honesty, what business would screw itself over by paying out for measures that would help another business keep going when that other business wont do anything to help itself, wont take advice, wont listen to it’s own customers and wont pay for protecting itself anyway? in fact, the best method it can dream up to help itself is to actually screw the customers it is desperate to keep by accusing them of all sorts of wrong doings (with no positive proof!), suing them and stopping them completely from using the product that keeps the business afloat anyway? good plan guys, i dont think!!!!
    so please tell me why it is that ISPs etc should do anything? why dont they join with any and all other internet companies eg search engines, file hosts, internet sellers, whatever and tell the entertainment industries to piss off? instead of being picked off one at a time, join forces and fight collectively for your businesses and your customers! show some fucking back bone for Christ’s sake, instead of continuously turning to jelly!!! dont expect the people to keep trying to help keep your businesses afloat when you do fuck all in return!!

  • Guest

    they can have all the key they want …. still they don’t have the RIGHT ….stop peeing on the constitution you scum !

  • Antera

    If only these entertainment companies didn’t make such high quality products – lower the bar and less people would want it. Sheesh

  • Mikko

    Pirating is still not theft

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  • http://twitter.com/Sweet_BabyLou Louis

    I was flagged by my ISP and I started to freak out. I started to do some research and I found torguard.net. They offer vpn’s and other services, even a cloud feature, all at a good price. It’s been 4 months since and I haven’t been flagged since. It’s worth a look!

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