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ISP Survey: Three Strikes Won’t Deter Pirates

Disconnecting alleged copyright infringers after three warnings is the ideal anti-piracy strategy if we believe the assertions of the entertainment industries. But how effective are such graduated response policies in the eyes of the public? Not very, according to a survey from the UK Internet provider BE Broadband. The survey reveals that only 6 percent of file-sharers will reduce or stop swapping files online.

Initiatives to punish alleged copyright infringers after repeated warnings are popping up all over the world, most recently in the United States. In the UK a similar scheme is embedded in the Digital Economy Act despite strong opposition from ISPs, the public and various human rights groups.

The entertainment industries claim that the threat of losing one’s Internet connection will deter a large group of copyright infringers. Thus far, however, no research has backed up this prediction. On the contrary, the results of a recent survey conducted by the British Internet provider BE Broadband reveals that the impact might be far less than expected.

BE Broadband surveyed a few hundred customers and asked them whether they are aware of the Digital Economy Act, and how they think their file-sharing habits would change under the new law. The results are intriguing.

Of all the respondents who use file-sharing networks (85% of the total sample) more than 94 percent say they will not share less when the Digital Economy Act gets into full swing. Instead, the majority of the file-sharers say they will simply take measures to hide their IP-address, by using VPN and proxy services for example.

Roughly 1 percent of the people who share files now say they will stop doing so and about 5 percent claim they will reduce their use of file-sharing software. Needless to say, the survey results suggest that three-strikes measures can hardly be called effective.


BE Broadband Survey Results

BE

Taking into account that the survey may not be representative of the general population in the UK (judging from the high percentage of file-sharers), it does appear that many of the people who now use file-sharing networks won’t be deterred from doing so under the new law. Instead, many of them will simply take measures to ensure that they’re not caught.

This raises some serious concerns.

Although the entertainment industries may argue that even a few percent less copyright infringers is a victory, the question of costs remain. Implementing the three strikes procedures will cost ISPs millions of pounds a year, money that will be eventually clawed back from consumers.

In addition, the three strikes scheme puts tens of thousands of innocent Internet users at risk of being wrongfully accused and disconnected by mistake. This has been demonstrated several times in the ACS:Law debacle, and was even reported on in the British mainstream media.

Last but not least, even if the right person is targeted then there’s still the human rights issue. A UN report published last month labeled the three strikes provision in the Digital Economy Act a breach of human rights. Disconnecting users from the Internet is a disproportionate penalty, the report concluded.

Perhaps it’s time for the copyright lobby and legislators to look at the alternatives. Preferably measures that improve the legal offerings and take away the incentive for people to pirate, rather than radically enforcing copyright infringement without knowing that it will have any effect at all.

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  • PegLeg

    The three strikes policy would only encourage me to pillage even more than I already do.

    • ditto

      ditto

    • Acheron

      I think you mean “will encourage me to seed more” ;)

    • JakeFreely9

      Same here. If any of the proposed anti-piracy measures (mainly site-blocking) are implemented, I promise I will start downloading as much as I possibly can. I’ll get an expensive VPN and download everything I’ve ever wanted, I’ll even download for friends & family, just as a nice way of saying “Fuck you” to the MAFIAA and our “friends” in government. Together we can stamp out our common oppressors; show them censorship just doesn’t work.

      • IDIOCRACY

        Hm…. I guess I already have enough movies to watch full time till I die (most of them original, except the series that was stolen from us.. SGU , the MF canceled that one and therefore I will not buy the original, I will not buy a product that is not even close to being finnished). So what is the point in downloading more?

        The stuff comming from movie industry sucks major nowadays anyway and the new series Game of Thrones needs almost every episode TITS in it otherwise people don’t watch it and then the show will be canceld as well…. duh…

        The last good movie I dowloaded and will buy when available on DVD is HOBO with a Shotgun hehe.

        No I will use my harddisk space for home movies from my family, worth a billion times more then the crap from hollywood etc.

        • guenthar martin

          Actually why there is so much nudity in Game of Thrones is because it is going directly by the book series it is based on.

    • JakeFreely9

      Same here. If any of the proposed anti-piracy measures (mainly site-blocking) are implemented, I promise I will start downloading as much as I possibly can. I’ll get an expensive VPN and download everything I’ve ever wanted, I’ll even download for friends & family, just as a nice way of saying “Fuck you” to the MAFIAA and our “friends” in government. Together we can stamp out our common oppressors; show them censorship just doesn’t work.

    • Razza

      Eh, who cares. Three strikes will never catch any devoted pirate. Culture will be free. We won’t ever have to pay for any of this stuff again. They know it, and they’re afraid of it.

      No money to corporations, no money to greedy pigs, no money for culture ever again. Seed in peace.

    • Ugly American

      Amen.

    • Frank

      Its easy to be gung ho until the time comes to pay the price once there is decent media coverage of people loosing their ISP connections and not being able to re connect with a new ISP attitudes will change. The fact that someone purposely hides their ID steal other peoples IP will then make other laws kick into effect which could and for some will result in criminal prosecutions, potential time in prison, loss of good name and reputation. Once branded a thief with a conviction its hard to get a job and all this because you’re a thieving Freetard :0)

  • Anonymous

    Let’s also keep in mind that people can crypt their emails as well. I mean, GNU Privacy Guard is really easy to install, configure and use and encrypting email becomes an ease.

  • politux

    There’s no option in the survey that says I’ll share twice as much after the law passes.

  • politux

    There’s no option in the survey that says I’ll share twice as much after the law passes.

  • My212

    Someone needs to explain to Governments that pissing into the wind is never beneficial.

    • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

      By sheer coincidence, I already did that this morning (with my sincere thanks to Rick F and TF too woohooo).

      Write to your MP and moan their tits off about this – PLEASE!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    One unintended consequence of 3 strikes bearing in mind additional potential bandwidth costs for vpn is a partial roll back to the pre internet piracy which might actually increase availability of pirated media.

    If you go back to the pre net 16bit days (and earlier) there were only a handful of people accessing BBS systems and downloading the warez however as copies were made, people would tend to hoard stuff even if they personally had no interest in it as they knew it might act as leverage to get disks from someone else.

    these days thanks to the net, people tend to only download what is of potential interest to them and digard any downloads that didnt live up to expection.

    The combination of 3 strikes and the fall is price of storage could result to a return of hoarding which in turn reduces the amount you personally download. The structures and meatspace social networks are already there with people sharing music and films at work and school as they have for years.

    Old style sneakernet filesharing and the famed 6 degrees of separation show that 3 strikes even if 95% stopped sharing would only serve the slow down availability probaby by a few days.

    • Dragonlady131313

      As a former hoarder, I can verify this statement. And why should anyone worry about being severed from the ‘net when you can go down to your local McDonald’s or coffee shop and have free access anyway?

      • Gg

        “……when you can go down to your local McDonald’s or coffee shop and have free access anyway?”
        LOL i love that comment, and dont forget about the unsecured open wifi’s the neighbours put up

        • Spock

          OH……….you mean neighbors like me??? Mines open for anybody, wardrivers neighbors whomever come on down!! :) All as a big middle finger to the life+50-70 (whatever it is today) crowd that thinks copywrong of these lengths is fair and in their rights to demand! Add to that finger a hearty F-O while you are it.

      • Someone

        Or in a house like mine, where there are 5 different people who could all have an internet account, disconnect one of us and the next one in line opens an account, or what about just changing ISP’s. There are at least 6 providers in my area, so 6 x 3 = 18 strikes x 5 people = 90 strikes, yeah I can really see that slowing us down.

    • Dragonlady131313

      As a former hoarder, I can verify this statement. And why should anyone worry about being severed from the ‘net when you can go down to your local McDonald’s or coffee shop and have free access anyway?

    • Paulius Drazdauskas

      Some people still hoard stuff.

  • Mattxo

    pirates sharing things will never change no matter what they try and force an ISP to do.

    So let me get this straight, they think that causing me to lose my contract with my ISP is a bad thing? is there any part which says i must never sign back with that ISP again? or to another? nope so what is the problem? lol

    I mean, this law may even be abused to get out of ISP contracts early as many now start as 12 month deals here in UK.

    • IDIOCRACY

      Too bad that in the fine print of the user agreement you signed is stated that if or when the contract has to be ended or stopped due to subscribers liability, the full contract periode has to be paid in damages as a minimum.

      So no gain there…

    • IDIOCRACY

      Too bad that in the fine print of the user agreement you signed is stated that if or when the contract has to be ended or stopped due to subscribers liability, the full contract periode has to be paid in damages as a minimum.

      So no gain there…

    • IDIOCRACY

      Too bad that in the fine print of the user agreement you signed is stated that if or when the contract has to be ended or stopped due to subscribers liability, the full contract periode has to be paid in damages as a minimum.

      So no gain there…

    • IDIOCRACY

      Too bad that in the fine print of the user agreement you signed is stated that if or when the contract has to be ended or stopped due to subscribers liability, the full contract periode has to be paid in damages as a minimum.

      So no gain there…

  • Mattxo

    Also, I wonder how many big ISP’s will have cracking down on pirates., will they have a special team with the aim of losing net profit :P

  • http://www.facebook.com/jordan.kratz Jordan Kratz

    Not only would I continue downloading TV documentaries to watch on science and history but i also and have doen for years now is not buy anything from the MAFIAA unles I buy it used and physicla.

    Just bought my LOTR EXT BLURAY on amazon USED.no money will go to the studio.
    to bad for them greedy assholes

    • Haxor

      you bought it legally….which means someone else bought it form that which you say you wont pay for so your subsidizing them to get what you want….and causing bad laws in process aren’t you a thinker

      • Seth of the Sea

        The MAFIAA don’t even like us selling dvds second hand so I wouldn’t be too hard on Jordan. Anyway the second hand market will disappear once everyone is on high speed connections and the MAFIAA have moved to an online distribution model which they will reluctantly do eventually

  • http://twitter.com/ricky_thomson ricky

    The entertainment ‘industry’ needs to realise that churning out crap encourages people to download it. Decent music artists, and movie makers will benefit from sales no matter how many times it is downloaded because people (real fans) will buy the memorabilia anyway, because they want a copy that lasts forever.

    Coughing up a shitty 2 hour movie with shit acting and a shitty story is never going to sell… so at least when people decide to download something (rather than gambling their hard earnt cash), the product is actually being watched/viewed by more people, which in turn CAUSES more sales because the people that liked said movie, will most likely purchase it afterwards.

    tl;dr If a movie sucks ass, everyone will download it. Because they will not waste money on pure garbage.

    Stupid MAFIAA.

    • Haxor

      but if the movie was good then your rational is back to the top part about it will make sales regardless, and there is two points here.

      1) bad crap gets dled then D-E-L-E-T-E-D , it dont get people going oh joy great and hten its done.

      2.) bit torrent and p2p take care of all the distribution that hollywood labels have for years added 95-97% cost on said product. Also its free adverting as well. Nothing works so good as word a mouth.

      AM I BEING PAID TO SHARE OR DISTRIBUTE THIS LIE A LABEL WOULD? NO then bugger off 97% is distribution so they owe me money.Give me the 97% i’ll then pay the 2-3 %…. that usually goes to an artist or guild.

      • Gg

        not trying to argue with you or anything but I was just curious if you had any sources that “95-97%” are distribution costs because if thats true a 20$ movie would only be like 60 cents
        thnx

        • Ven

          Well, Avatar for example cost $500 million to make and has grossed something around 2 billion.

          So 25% goes directly into the cost of the movie and it’s original advertising.

  • http://twitter.com/ricky_thomson ricky

    The entertainment ‘industry’ needs to realise that churning out crap encourages people to download it. Decent music artists, and movie makers will benefit from sales no matter how many times it is downloaded because people (real fans) will buy the memorabilia anyway, because they want a copy that lasts forever.

    Coughing up a shitty 2 hour movie with shit acting and a shitty story is never going to sell… so at least when people decide to download something (rather than gambling their hard earnt cash), the product is actually being watched/viewed by more people, which in turn CAUSES more sales because the people that liked said movie, will most likely purchase it afterwards.

    tl;dr If a movie sucks ass, everyone will download it. Because they will not waste money on pure garbage.

    Stupid MAFIAA.

  • Domestic Terrorist 349756290

    Taking control of the internet was never about copyright.
    That’s what they let you think it’s about…

    • Acheron

      Err.. what?

      • IDIOCRACY

        he means that this copyright fight on the internet is just a smoke screen for the real battle for control of the internet …..hehe

  • Haxor

    but if the movie WASN’T good(correction)

  • I am a sausage not a hotdog

    Eventually they will ultimately lose and the industry will fiddle their thumbs like Mr.burns from The Simpsons and cry more,lol. It’s elementary! Great post this should be shown a good example how mafiaa will ultimately lose their scummy victory.

    • Ven

      I don’t understand this mindset that the entertainment industry will lose to piracy because they can’t hold on and fight as long. They are backed by the governments, the giant corporations that own the hardware that the internet functions on, and other random piles of money.

      When governments admit they can’t stop the piracy on a software level, or ISPs can’t stop it on a contractual level, do you really think they won’t take more drastic steps?

      Freedom of speech on the internet is easily avoided by removing the internet.

  • Anonymous

    lol, Thank goodness for open WIFI connections lol.
    http://www.total-privacy.se.tc

    • Xult

      Fux you again.
      Wow really I agree this is spam.
      FLAGGED

  • dlj

    It’s so easy to answer a poll. My guess is only a handful of people will actually take measures to hide their IP address. And I am guessing that most of those whom would take measures are people reading this website.

  • LuLz Boat rox

    Proud to be a BE customer :)

    • M9

      I might be too if TalkTalk (my current ISP) start web-blocking.

    • M9

      I might be too if TalkTalk (my current ISP) start web-blocking.

    • M9

      I might be too if TalkTalk (my current ISP) start web-blocking.

  • MD3

    I wonder when they will start trying to ban VPN and proxy services as well. Really, I wouldn’t doubt some stupid politician proposing it.

    • Mainframe Xaiver

      You cant just go and ban a vpn , they have to many uses . to many people use them for other things then just filesharing.

      • Ivonatinkle

        They can license them though. Charge by the GB. Then people who use them for business only need 200kB while illicit downloaders pay as much as they would on itunes/netflix.

      • Ivonatinkle

        They can license them though. Charge by the GB. Then people who use them for business only need 200kB while illicit downloaders pay as much as they would on itunes/netflix.

      • Anonymous

        The way to take out a VPN is to force them to track their users details and connections. Next step is to force them to hand over those details.

        I read a while ago CyberGhost’s threat to remove their many VPN servers from Germany due to a new law trying to force them to track users.

        Nice of them to protect our anonymity but keep in mind us infringers are only minor law breakers. Some serious criminals would also make use of VPN in such cases of terrorism, human trafficking, kiddie porn, drug dealing and much more.

        So to protect business trade secrets, or our infringement. is to protect very much more and you cant have it both ways.

        • Ven

          The risk vs. reward campaigns that would result would be heavily stacked in the favor of hose who want to track users. And since the majority of politicians and voters alike don’t understand IP law or internet privacy or anything else, they will pass those tracking laws.

          And legal use of a VPN does not necessarily require that your information is not logged. VPN use is not defended under most human rights laws, so the usual freedoms (speech, privacy) will not really be strong enough arguments to sway voters/politicians.

          It will just be one more set of laws that is inconsistent from nation to nation.

        • Anonymous

          The VPN services who desire to protect user anonymity will always move to countries who do not force them to log data. Still plenty of those in Europe including Luxembourg.

          Although anonymity is not yet a human right I can say the Right to Anonymity is protected under the US Bill of Rights. So in the US your data cannot be revealed to anyone unless they can show you have broken the law. I do not believe though this would exclude tracking you when by default your connection data is not revealed.

          Law enforcement agencies would clearly be unhappy with VPN services so it is only a matter of time before they come under major attack.

  • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

    They want to dish out 3-strikes? I voluntarily bare my ass and invite them to whack me first.

    I’ll take the demented bullies to Court and fight every step of the way – the MAFIAA fucktards are DEAD already.

    Sharing IS Caring.

  • Momo

    The poor entertainment industries think that by disconnecting pirates and censoring the internet they’ll magically get more people to buy their crap again. They really are sad.

    • Ven

      But people would rather risk all of the dangers of pirating in order to watch their garbage. Why wouldn’t they think that stemming piracy wouldn’t help sales?

  • Luzsec

    If the digital act become law, do you think you will change your behavior?

    No. I will kill all these corporate parasites anyway.

    • Anonymous

      The Digital Economy Act is already law but they have not done much with it yet.

      Some ISPs took the matter to court saying this subject has not been debated correctly. Sad to say they lost the case and the appeal.

      The Government had some issues getting the DEA passed so did so during the last Government’s wash-up period. This is time when very few MPs are around when most have returned to their home counties. So a time when they can get unpopular laws forced through without any serious debate.

  • Ppb642

    Maybe the MPAA should have a real think about what they are doing. Say for example the only access people would have to their product would be controlled by them. What would happen? I think there would be a lot of people out of work. Their customers would be so careful with spending their hard earned cash as they would not want to spend the large asking prices on products they feel are not value for money.

    So why not embrace the current trend of the internet and free information? Make their own webite the MPAAbay where people could share their stuff and make available what ever they wanted. Then give people the option of showing their appreciation and making a donation to who ever created the material. Would that not promote the Arts, creativeness and all the other good things the MPAA claims they are representing?

    Or is it about trying to preserve a fast dying monopoly, where their interests are not geared towards protecting creativity but preserving their cash cow?

    • Ven

      I fully support the idea of an MPAAbay because it would resolve one of two things:

      - The MPAA/RIAA can make money just fine on that business model.
      - Given the choice, most people won’t bother paying for entertainment.

      Either way, it would be overwhelming evidence to but all the hearsay to rest.

  • JakeFreely9

    If any of the proposed anti-piracy measures (mainly site-blocking) are implemented, I promise I will start downloading as much as I possibly can. I’ll get an expensive VPN and download everything I’ve ever wanted, I’ll even download for friends & family, just as a nice way of saying “Fuck you” to the MAFIAA and our “friends” in government. Together we can stamp out our common oppressors; show them censorship doesn’t work. Fuck the Conservatives, fuck Labour, and fuck the Liberal Democrats.

    • Malk

      With you all the way bud. Proud to be a customer of BeThere.

  • JakeFreely9

    If any of the proposed anti-piracy measures (mainly site-blocking) are implemented, I promise I will start downloading as much as I possibly can. I’ll get an expensive VPN and download everything I’ve ever wanted, I’ll even download for friends & family, just as a nice way of saying “Fuck you” to the MAFIAA and our “friends” in government. Together we can stamp out our common oppressors; show them censorship doesn’t work. Fuck the Conservatives, fuck Labour, and fuck the Liberal Democrats.

  • JakeFreely9

    If any of the proposed anti-piracy measures (mainly site-blocking) are implemented, I promise I will start downloading as much as I possibly can. I’ll get an expensive VPN and download everything I’ve ever wanted, I’ll even download for friends & family, just as a nice way of saying “Fuck you” to the MAFIAA and our “friends” in government. Together we can stamp out our common oppressors; show them censorship doesn’t work. Fuck the Conservatives, fuck Labour, and fuck the Liberal Democrats.

  • Jack

    The Digital Economy Act (Mandy Bill) doesn’t apply to mobile Internet providers, i.e 3G.
    For many rural people 3G is providing a faster service than obsolete fixed lines & now there are Android phones available on”All You Can Eat” data plans which easily tether to PCs and provide faster up and downloads than long copper lines.
    Even if the DEA was applied to 3G services, I don’t think they could pinpoint any more than the cell tower you were using which could be several miles from your actual location.
    Furthermore, there are still repercussions from the ACS:Law scam, still no foolproof IP address tracking & user identification and some of the copyrights which were supposedly being breached were not properly held or even owned at all by the claimants.
    I’m sure some copyright owners don’t want their copyright claims closely scrutinised as most are designed to avoid taxation by being leased from an offshore holding company so that profits are returned offshore tax free.

    • Ven

      Wireless internet providers do not have the necessary bandwidth to support large-scale file-sharing. The history of 3G was a good example:

      - They offered unlimited data plans.
      - AT&T’s system buckled in the U.S. because of the traffic.
      - They remove unlimited bandwidth from 3G, and offer it to users who upgrade to 4G phones.
      - Profit.

      But the system can’t compete with hard-line cable ISPs.

      • Anonymous

        I have in the recent past used T-Mobile in the UK for BT downloads. Their 1GB plan for £5 is a good deal and as they claim it is also unlimited. I have easily put over 4GB though their 3G link before and so much it wraps their system around to warn me of 80% usage a 2nd time. Just switch SIMs each month to avoid limits not that their limits do much.

        The biggest problem is no open port for incoming connections which makes for a big sharing issue on less popular media.

        I have no idea how well they will do in the long term. I am good at breaking most of their T&C and they don’t ban me. I am back on broadband these days which is about 20 times faster and with open ports.

        • Ven

          My point is that you can’t expect everyone to find a solution in that manner. In the U.S., carriers eventually started to throttle download speeds some and heavily throttle upload speeds.

          Their ToU agreements give ISPs the leeway to throttle/limit the unlimited connections when they do one of two things:

          - Eat far more bandwidth than a normal consumer connection;
          - When the internet usage threatens the stability of the system for other users.

          Basically, it’s only unlimited until they say it isn’t, and if everyone runs to pirate on it that won’t be far off.

  • Anonymous

    let it go into full swing…… they will know the dark side of pirates, push a dog into a corner and its gonna fight back.

    • Ven

      Pirates above all else place value on their privacy. Why would they commit crimes that would inevitably force them into the open?

      That’s why you don’t see tons of stories of record executives being gunned down by file-sharers or MPAA buildings being bombed very often.

  • Z1unknown

    maybe if they werent so gready about the price of the materal they are trying to sell people would actually buy it. if prices were cut 1/2 on music/music/videogames they would sell more then 2x as much of their product as they are now. $15-30 for a cd or $20+ for a bluray are bullshit prices. people are tired of being ripped off.

  • TSO

    Since I use filehosting websites as opposed to torrents, any three strikes and you’re out system wouldn’t probably affect me. Though if it did, after the 1st strike, I’d simply take out a VPN subscription. This system is and always was doomed to failure.

  • Pasttense

    “47% will take steps to conceal their identity (eg IP address cloaking)”

    Huh??? Internet users in the UK must be very bright; only a small fraction of the internet users in the United States would have the remotest clue as to how to do this.

    • Xult

      I think anyone in the uk.
      Including down syndrome sufferers.
      Are brighter than the average American Politician.
      As regards the public………..

    • Xult

      I think anyone in the uk.
      Including down syndrome sufferers.
      Are brighter than the average American Politician.
      As regards the public………..

  • Colin

    BE is an ISP in the UK and has – until fairly recently – been the main ISP offering (up to) 24MBPS, so probably has a higher percentage of users who want high speed, and so are more likely to be file sharers. This means that the survey results may not be fully representative of all UK ISPs and all UK internet users. However I hope the UK government read this and take note. It is high time that musicians considered giving their music away (by uploading it themsleves) cutting out the record company leeches. They can make money from concerts, merchandise etc.

    • Ven

      Some artists can. But concerts don’t really make the money they used to (I haven’t seen a show around here that wasn’t either sponsored by the nearby university or only paying free drinks at the bar). But many many artists are selling their music online without a label, and they love it because they make far more per track than they would on a contract.

      Then of course you aren’t considering artists who don’t tour or play shows because local demand will never be high enough or there won’t be enough venues that can support their specific kind of show.

      So really the options we have now are the best: artists can give their music away, sell it themselves, or sign with a label. It’s the best of all three worlds.

  • Tidaltree

    In context I sure would like an article comparing VPNs usable with torrents, including how stressful increased usage of torrents is for their network.

  • Eilif

    I’m already using VPN, so i guess i’m fine =P

  • Hurro

    I’ll just stick to the tried and true Newsgroups
    why change from something that just works?

  • James Plotkin

    In my opinion, the issue shouldn’t be how efficacious this measure is in enforcing IP owners rights. We should rather be asking if this measure should even be considered legal.

    It is my view that Internet has become an essential service like any other. If someone wants to unplug your essential services, they should have to have a seriously good reason for doing so (like public safety for instance).

    I have a lot of trouble digesting the fact that because one downloads illegally and gets caught for it three times should not preclude their right to access the internet. The net is a gateway to so much more than simply infringing copyright.

    Also, what if my 14 year old son gets caught downloading. I, the parent, and the rest of the household for that matter should lose our “internet privileges” too? That’s just absurd. Not even the government should have the right to sanction me (an innocent bystander) for such a matter, let alone a private citizen or company who just so happens to hold some copyrights.

    This is a completely inequitable and unmeasured response to what I conceit is a problem for these people. I really wish the industry would adapt instead of sanction. It’s such ugly business.

    I discuss other copyright related issues in my article on the PROTECT IP ACT:

    jamesplotkin.blogspot.com

    Now there’s a piece of legislation I would like to not see drafted…

    • Ven

      If your child gets caught, you get a warning letter. If your child gets you caught again, you get another warning letter. If you let your child off the hook twice and get caught a third time, the government steps in and corrects the behavior themselves.

      While I don’t know how I feel about being responsible for all network traffic, I applaud every effort made by governments to force responsibility of raising children onto their parents.

      “I really wish the industry would adapt instead of sanction.”

      The laws need to adapt. What the industry is doing is perfectly reasonable given the laws they operate under. Fighting the industry is fighting a losing battle as long as these laws exist.

      • Anon

        Astute and right on, Ven. And as long as pirates continue to use tech like encryption and VPN’s to evade, governments will continue to take away abused technologies. Governments have always done this with mass citizen support. Lay off the torrents and study some damn history, why don’t you. They’ll do it in this case too, if pirates don’t stop and restrategize along legal lines.

        This is not prohibition. Taking a private, unlawful nip is not exactly the same as ransacking the worlds digital goods into petabytes of pilfered data, , paying no sales taxes on their unlawful acquisitions and damaging industries through digital theft.

        Until pirates stop hiding and stealing and come at this issue from a legal, effective angle, they are just dikwads bent on screwing the network through illegal behavior.

        • Anonymous

          If piracy is so righteous with sheer numbers around the world, where are they? The Pirate Party is turning out to be little more than a pimple on the RIAA’s ass. Pirates like to talk big but the fact is they hide while they steal, they don’t demand a legal process that leads to a right to do it. Noooo, they talk big on TF and hide like children when the world is run by adults. Next time the customs man takes your stuff to scan it for watermarks at the border you are going to break down and weep in the back room “like a leetle gurl.”

          like a pirate.

        • Ven

          I know you and I regularly agree on topics discussed here Anon (assuming you are the Anon usually posting here), but I really think you could do more good if you were to tone down the hatred.

          If there are pirates here who really just want stuff for free, you will never be able to change their minds. And if there are people here with open minds, you will never be able to reach them in this way. Your words are clearly slanted towards what you believe, and you don’t give space for other ideas.

          So I will suggest that you read some history as well, notably regarding the Socratic Method and the life and achievements of Mohat Magandi.

        • Anon

          @Ven.

          “Mahatma Gandhi”? Really? Do you mean like back in 2000 and 2001 when artists and industry joined to fund hundreds of millions of dollars of education why digital stealing wasn’t cool and how it would only lead to loss of online freedom if continued? Years of education before even the first digital pirate was personally identified?

          The time to be Gandhi has passed. Pirates have shown how screwed up their thinking is and how they will sacrifice our freedoms as long as they can get free stuff in the meantime. The heavy handed crackdown has begun, it was inevitable in response to this kind of anarchic behavior, but ONLY after 10 years of trying and you know it.

          Now we get to strengthen law, limit freedom, identify you one at a time and put you down like the poisoned dogs you are. You knew this was coming and you refused to stop. So enjoy it.

      • Anonymous

        And what if the subscriber does not know who did it when all family members deny doing it and a search cannot find the stated media?

        I also expect parents would not welcome interference by the Government in how they raise their children. Some may even strongly oppose copyright and believe such laws to be unethical and would teach their children the same. Even if that is indirectly by getting animated movie downloads for their kids to watch.

        They may even raise the future politician that whacks off copyright injustice. An example of how society makes the laws it lives within.

        • Ven

          You raise some good points. I don’t want to get into the legal ramifications of raising children, mostly because I can’t approach that without severe bias.

          The content of your last paragraph has interested me for some time however… If the overwhelming majority of children are bombarded currently with the idea that piracy is okay (whether or not it is legal or right or whatever), what happens in forty years when all these kids are making and changing laws?

          That is, do we see smart ones enlighten themselves out of their childhood habits and uphold traditional law, or do we see the concept of enlightenment change as they grow older?

    • Anon

      Plotkin likes to pretend he’s not responsible as a parent for the things his 14 year old does. For God’s sake, seriously, read a book and help.

  • yeah

    This is sort of shit more people should be aware of
    http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/27/hollywoodonomics-how.html

    For the artists… right!

    • Anonymous

      Yes an example why no movie in Hollywood can ever make a profit. Hollywood accounting they call it. Actually (almost) everyone gets paid including WB in this example but they just hide this profit from taxes by making it look like a loss.

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  • Anonymous

    Like making Netflix available in the EU. Now that would help, but then who would watch tv? Then there will be different big Corps. that complain…

  • NewZealander1234

    Bro don’t forget New Zealand. From 1 September it will be illegal etc etc and you get 2 warnings then you can get your net cut off for 3 or 6 months or even permanently. AND AFTER THAT YOU CAN GET $15,000 FINE

    • Donotreply

      After that report by the UN considering internet access a human right; I think the NZ Government will be forced to do a back flip on that policy fairly soon.

  • Anonymous

    lol, of course it wont, people gotta have their free stuff man.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FCNK7C55CBUYFVSC5LNWKB322E Buglord

      in norway, you can get free drugs too! talking about the so called bad kind, not the good kind..

  • Guest


    Plotkin likes to pretend he’s not responsible as a parent for the things his 14 year old does. For God’s sake, seriously, read a book and help.

    Your trolling has no basis in the law. A parent is not legally responsible for crimes committed by the minor.
    A parent like a third party might or might not have a duty to prevent crimes depending on his ability and knowledge of the circumstances, but this is a far cry from the claim that an internet account holder is strictly liable for not tracking down any infringement committed by a person within his household.
    Even under the negligence standard in civil law, you must be reasonably capable of preventing the tort. You can’t be legally negligent for being unable to track any use of your internet account.
    Mac addresses can be spoofed, and wireless encryption may be cracked.


    When governments admit they can’t stop the piracy on a software level, or ISPs can’t stop it on a contractual level, do you really think they won’t take more drastic steps?

    Governments at least those pretending to be democratic exist on the sufferance of the people.
    Piracy has the ability to bankrupt any government attempting to crack hard on piracy.

    I honestly can’t see any good endgame for any effort to apply harsh copyright law to noncommercial file sharing.

    And legal use of a VPN does not necessarily require that your information is not logged. VPN use is not defended under most human rights laws, so the usual freedoms (speech, privacy) will not really be strong enough arguments to sway voters/politicians.

    It will just be one more set of laws that is inconsistent from nation to nation.

    Yes, and if nation a has a data retention policy of 6 months and nation b has a policy of 24 months, guess who attracts the most business.
    Data retention laws are bad for business, bad for the taxpayers and bad for privacy.
    Without data retention which must necessarily mandate end to end storing of any IP address, enforcement of copyright against noncommercial filesharing is a dead letter.

    • Ven

      “A parent is not legally responsible for crimes committed by the minor.”

      While I disagree with the law in that regard, you are correct.

      “Piracy has the ability to bankrupt any government attempting to crack hard on piracy… I honestly can’t see any good endgame for any effort to apply harsh copyright law to noncommercial file sharing.”

      This is interesting to me. I would have figured that legitimate undermining of copyright law could bankrupt a government, meaning that the government would take as unrelenting a stance against piracy as possible.

      Could you paint a scenario for me where pissed off pirates could bankrupt a government?

      “Yes, and if nation a has a data retention policy of 6 months and nation b has a policy of 24 months, guess who attracts the most business.

      Data retention laws are bad for business, bad for the taxpayers and bad for privacy. Without data retention which must necessarily mandate end to end storing of any IP address, enforcement of copyright against noncommercial filesharing is a dead letter.”

      And this will be the basis of the political argument moving forward. Data retention is bad for privacy, but we already see a great deal of that in place anyway to handle other crimes and legal issues.

      Data retention is also bad for business, but so is abolishing copyright (I don’t believe piracy will stop if/when copyright terms are shortened or weakened). The first nations to do away with copyright will lose business because the old models will continue to fight against it. So the question is, which path is worse for business?

      And I am of the opinion that taxpayers are only ever considered by politicians around campaign season, and even then it is only lip-service.

  • Guest

    “”A parent is not legally responsible for crimes committed by the minor.”"


    While I disagree with the law in that regard, you are correct.

    So if the child commits a murder or a crime punishable with life imprisonment without possibility of parole, the parent shall be responsible as if he or she is the actual wrongdoer regardless of whether he knew that the crime was planned or in progress.
    I am not questioning that a parent like any other third party might and should be punished for aiding or abetting a specific crime, destroying evidence or helping a felon to evade a lawful arrest, but arguing that an account holder should be strictly liable by analogy to an nonexistent parental duty to control their children is problematic, because we don’t even impose such an impossible duty on parents or guardians.
    Since parents or guardians aren’t legally responsible for crimes committed by their children, extending such a rationale to internet account holders is unworkable and likely to result in a lot of unforeseen consequences.

    Holding an account holder responsible on the theory that he should control and track all traffick going through his network will result in either (a) Locking down all internet acces; (b) Restricting internet access to only one computer; (c) Measures designed to increase the distance between the account holder and any *possible* abuse by plausible deniability resulting in more litigation and stretching of judicial resources.

    “”Piracy has the ability to bankrupt any government attempting to crack hard on piracy… I honestly can’t see any good endgame for any effort to apply
    harsh copyright law to noncommercial file sharing.”"


    This is interesting to me. I would have figured that legitimate undermining of copyright law could bankrupt a government, meaning that the government would
    take as unrelenting a stance against piracy as possible.

    Could you paint a scenario for me where pissed off pirates could bankrupt a government?

    Pirates resorting to a mix of encryption, sneakernets, offline distribution and physical distribution of encrypted data dumps with several degrees of separation between the source and the receiver and small community based distribution of file links to still legitimate cyber lockers would force the government to expend resources on tracking down all points in the chain, and if just some of these points are offshore the government must expend manpower on processing, surveillance and legal assistance request to other nations.
    The piracy network must be capable of secure end to end communication between the requester and the provider of the information, and there must be at least a legally plausible — if not completely certain — likelihood of plausible deniability defense available to at least some of the middle men in the chain. The government could of course change the law denying the defense to encryption providers or services chaining encrypted communication, but such a change in the law would be hostile to much legitimate businesses like telco corporations and common carriers.
    The point with plausible deniability is not necessarily that the defense must always be successful to all defendants raising it during trial, but that the mere plausibility of it being raised will deter the police and civil litigants from bringing technically hard to prove cases.

    “”Yes, and if nation a has a data retention policy of 6 months and nation b has a policy of 24 months, guess who attracts the most business.

    Data retention laws are bad for business, bad for the taxpayers and bad for privacy. Without data retention which must necessarily mandate end to end storing
    of any IP address, enforcement of copyright against noncommercial filesharing is a dead letter.”"

    And this will be the basis of the political argument moving forward. Data retention is bad for privacy, but we already see a great deal of that in place
    anyway to handle other crimes and legal issues.

    Data retention is also bad for business, but so is abolishing copyright (I don’t believe piracy will stop if/when copyright terms are shortened or weakened).
    The first nations to do away with copyright will lose business because the old models will continue to fight against it. So the question is, which path
    is worse for business?

    I can assure you that DR becomes intolerable when the cost of storage and processing causes businesses to leave the most restrictive restriction in favor of another more tolerant one.
    The tech industry is larger than the movie and music industry.

  • Guest

    “”A parent is not legally responsible for crimes committed by the minor.”"


    While I disagree with the law in that regard, you are correct.

    So if the child commits a murder or a crime punishable with life imprisonment without possibility of parole, the parent shall be responsible as if he or she is the actual wrongdoer regardless of whether he knew that the crime was planned or in progress.
    I am not questioning that a parent like any other third party might and should be punished for aiding or abetting a specific crime, destroying evidence or helping a felon to evade a lawful arrest, but arguing that an account holder should be strictly liable by analogy to an nonexistent parental duty to control their children is problematic, because we don’t even impose such an impossible duty on parents or guardians.
    Since parents or guardians aren’t legally responsible for crimes committed by their children, extending such a rationale to internet account holders is unworkable and likely to result in a lot of unforeseen consequences.

    Holding an account holder responsible on the theory that he should control and track all traffick going through his network will result in either (a) Locking down all internet acces; (b) Restricting internet access to only one computer; (c) Measures designed to increase the distance between the account holder and any *possible* abuse by plausible deniability resulting in more litigation and stretching of judicial resources.

    “”Piracy has the ability to bankrupt any government attempting to crack hard on piracy… I honestly can’t see any good endgame for any effort to apply
    harsh copyright law to noncommercial file sharing.”"


    This is interesting to me. I would have figured that legitimate undermining of copyright law could bankrupt a government, meaning that the government would
    take as unrelenting a stance against piracy as possible.

    Could you paint a scenario for me where pissed off pirates could bankrupt a government?

    Pirates resorting to a mix of encryption, sneakernets, offline distribution and physical distribution of encrypted data dumps with several degrees of separation between the source and the receiver and small community based distribution of file links to still legitimate cyber lockers would force the government to expend resources on tracking down all points in the chain, and if just some of these points are offshore the government must expend manpower on processing, surveillance and legal assistance request to other nations.
    The piracy network must be capable of secure end to end communication between the requester and the provider of the information, and there must be at least a legally plausible — if not completely certain — likelihood of plausible deniability defense available to at least some of the middle men in the chain. The government could of course change the law denying the defense to encryption providers or services chaining encrypted communication, but such a change in the law would be hostile to much legitimate businesses like telco corporations and common carriers.
    The point with plausible deniability is not necessarily that the defense must always be successful to all defendants raising it during trial, but that the mere plausibility of it being raised will deter the police and civil litigants from bringing technically hard to prove cases.

    “”Yes, and if nation a has a data retention policy of 6 months and nation b has a policy of 24 months, guess who attracts the most business.

    Data retention laws are bad for business, bad for the taxpayers and bad for privacy. Without data retention which must necessarily mandate end to end storing
    of any IP address, enforcement of copyright against noncommercial filesharing is a dead letter.”"

    And this will be the basis of the political argument moving forward. Data retention is bad for privacy, but we already see a great deal of that in place
    anyway to handle other crimes and legal issues.

    Data retention is also bad for business, but so is abolishing copyright (I don’t believe piracy will stop if/when copyright terms are shortened or weakened).
    The first nations to do away with copyright will lose business because the old models will continue to fight against it. So the question is, which path
    is worse for business?

    I can assure you that DR becomes intolerable when the cost of storage and processing causes businesses to leave the most restrictive restriction in favor of another more tolerant one.
    The tech industry is larger than the movie and music industry.

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  • AnarchyNow

    3 strike bullshit has never ever worked and never will.

    The U$A is the most despicable tyranny of all times that hasn’t abolished death penalty and slavery at all and now they’re trying to force people into believing that intellectual property is “sacred” as much as they managed to get people into believing that private property and contracts were “sacred” and above all they want the whole universe to bow to their stupid lies.

    Property is theft, intellectual property is genocide!

    • Guest

      Hello troll

  • elo

    mother fuckers

  • Anonymous

    tinyurl.com/24n4nqb

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