Lessig Questions Pirate Party’s Existence
Written by Ben Jones on March 08, 2008At a preview of his new ‘Change Congress’ project, the Stanford professor took a swipe at the Pirate Party of the United States. Whilst expressing skepticism about it’s utility, his main criticism seemed to be the name.
Lawrence Lessig appears to be in and out of the tech news recently – the will-he-won’t-he run for Congress, has caused a storm of blog-posts this last month alone. Having declined to run on the democratic party ticket, he has now started criticizing other parties.
At a preview of his new Change Congress project at the ETech conference, the Creative Commons founder responded to a question about the US Pirate Party, saying “I’m skeptical of the utility of something like the Pirate Party in the United States.” He went on to comment about the naming, referring to the ‘honest business fighting illegitimate thieves‘ battle that Hollywood portrays with “Call your party the Pirate Party, and you’ll reinforce that. The branding is not one that I would embrace here in the United States.”
Naturally, the Pirate Party of the US disagrees. “As a professor, he should know better than to advocate judging a book by it’s cover” says Andrew Norton, head of the US Pirate Party. “It’s also unusual that the man that fought Hollywood’s increase of copyright, should find fault with a party that only seeks to represent the general public, and what better title than the name that Hollywood is using for all citizens.” referring to a recent study,(pdf) which suggested that everyone violates copyright, and are thus pirates, every day.
“It may, however, be that he feels since we are called ‘The Pirate Party’, that at some point we may advocate Piracy, or at least copyright infringement. We do not, and will not, promote the breaking of any law, criminal or civil,” added Norton. “We, like Prof. Lessig, stand squarely behind the political process, and hope that people will use their ability to vote, to vote for the candidates they want, rather than the so-called ‘tactical voting’ which has turned current US politics into the sham it is. In this, we are willing and eager to work with the Change Congress campaign in any way we can.”
These sentiments regarding the political process in the US have suddenly come to a head, with Independent Presidential Candidate Ralph Nader condemning the current political setup. On an appearance on the hugely popular Daily Show Tuesday, he commented “The two parties have shut out the people in Washington. It’s corporate occupied territory.”
He later went on to comment about how the two parties have rigged things so it’s hard for any other party to even get on the ballot, which the Pirate Party knows only too well. “Many states bury their party registration requirements in vast amounts of legalese,” says Norton. “Other states don’t publish it clearly, and don’t respond to requests for information on it. Government is supposed to exist for the benefit of the people, but right now, it’s benefiting the lawyers, and those that can pay for them.”
Can Lessig really ‘Change Congress’? It all depends if he will see past names, to the actual issues they hide.
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42 Responses
why cant the united states have a multi party system like in canada
[quote comment="306764"]why cant the united states have a multi party system like in canada[/quote]
We do have other parties (Libertarian Party, Socialist Party, Green Party, Reform Party)… but the two main parties get so much news coverage and special treatment, that the other ones don’t stand a chance. People always say voting for a 3rd party is like “throwing your vote away” because it seems like only Democrats and Republicans ever get elected. They have the largest memberships and everyone is so loyal to them.
I always vote for 3rd party candidates that I like, but they never win elections.
Because we’re idiots when it comes to our own govt. I agree with Lessig, they should think about a different name. Something with P2P or something.
We talk about the US… DOH!
Now aren’t you being a little hypocrite?
The Corporate States of America has been stealing away the wealth of indigenous people all over the world for ages!
Lessig is right about the name of the party. It’s very sloppy politics. Richard Stallman makes the same point about the word “piracy”: “Publishers often refer to prohibited copying as ‘piracy.’ In this way, they imply that illegal copying is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the high seas, kidnapping and murdering the people on them.
If you don’t believe that illegal copying is just like kidnapping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word ‘piracy’ to describe it. Neutral terms such as ‘prohibited copying’ or ‘unauthorized copying’ are available for use instead. Some of us might even prefer to use a positive term such as ’sharing information with your neighbor.’”
I admit, choosing “Pirate” for the name doesn’t really get the general public to feel comfortable with them right away. Honestly, when just glancing at something, which most would do when reading about The Pirate Party, do we not tend to pass judgment based on simple things like a name?
Indeed, most do break copyright law everyday, but the public does not see themselves as “Pirates”, and would not want to associate with a party claiming to be just that without doing further research. And face it, most will not take the time to delve into what the party stands for.
The name catches on quite nicely with others of our community, especially script-kiddies dreaming about hack-like takeovers of the RIAA.
But when it comes to broadening the reach of The Pirate Party to those less informed about it’s motives, the name does and will continue to be a hindrance in doing just that. Why should the general public won’t to associate with a party named after ruthless thieves?
[quote comment="306764"]why cant the united states have a multi party system like in canada[/quote]
We do have other parties (Libertarian Party, Socialist Party, Green Party, Reform Party)… but the two main parties get so much news coverage and special treatment, that the other ones don’t stand a chance. People always say voting for a 3rd party is like “throwing your vote away” because it seems like only Democrats and Republicans ever get elected. They have the largest memberships and everyone is so loyal to them.
I always vote for 3rd party candidates that I like, but they never win elections.
Lessig’s attitude should hardly come as a surprise, as he is a stringent supporter of copyright.
Have any of those who like him actually read any of his books?
They’re full of such juicy morsels of copyright-mongering, such as
“Control, as I have argued, is not necessarily bad. Copyright is a critical part of the process of creativity; a great deal of creativity would not exist without the protections of the law. Without the law, the incentives to produce creative work would be vastly reduced. Large-budget films could not be produced; many books would not get written. Copyright is therefore an integral and crucial part of the creative process. And as it has expanded, it has expanded the opportunities for creativity.”
(Lessig, The Future of Ideas, pp. 107-08, 0375726446)
Or:
“A free culture is not a culture without property; it is not
a culture in which artists don’t get paid. A culture without property, or
in which creators can’t get paid, is anarchy, not freedom. Anarchy is not
what I advance here.
Instead, the free culture that I defend in this book is a balance between anarchy and control. A free culture, like a free market, is filled with property. It is filled with rules of property and contract that get enforced by the state.”
(Lessig, Free Culture, xvi, 1594200068).
Lessig is no friend of the anti-copyright movement, just another apologist reformist, at best.
DIzzIE – as I have written before, copyright is not in and of itself bad, its the way it’s used and extended. In speaking with the Pirate Party, they’re not for abolishing it either (not that they could anyway, since that would require a constitutional amendment) but instead they want to see it used as intended, to promote progress. Figures I’ve seen suggested, include a 14+14 plan, where you get 14 years automatic protection, and then if you want, at the end of that term, you can pay and register for a single additional 14 year extention.
It is in many ways the best compromise. Right now, that would mean that anything created upto and including 1979 would be out of copyright. Most things prior to 1994 would also be out.
Come on… it´s just that it´s a bit embarrassing for finely upheld citizens to call themselves pirates. In reality it´s a really good name. Especially if you aim for the long term and shoot for the younger generations. :-)
Give me an example of a more “serious” name that would actually make an average joe, react, stop and actually notice the party at all? Without a huuughe marketing campaign that is.
“Pirate” is a head turner, eye stopper, an attention grabbing word. Try to accomplish something similar with a name like “information freedom party” or suchlike.
Playing along with the name calling is just another strategy to nullify it. Trying to avoid it and oppose it like Lessig and Stallman does is another, in my opinion, less fruitful, strategy.
Yarrr!
I think everyone is taking what he said way out of context. He’s just stating that the average idiot American will see the word “Pirate” and automatically decide they want to part in it.
He’s not bashing the party, nor saying things because of what he stands to gain. He’s making a legitimate statement that is actually worth listening to.
As someone said, it is sloppy politics to have a taboo word as your party name.
Why not use a more mundane name such
as the Copyright Reform Party?
Lessig has a point that by using the
word Pirate in their name, they are
making themselves too easy a target
for the MAFIAA and those who have
bought the industry koolaid.
[quote comment="306844"]
[...]
As someone said, it is sloppy politics to have a taboo word as your party name.[/quote]
No… perhaps sloppy marketing. Not sloppy politics. Since politics must have with the polices of the party to do… right?
And I´m not so sure the word pirate is that taboo either.
I´m not even sure it´s bad marketing when you think about it. A noticeable name is quite important. And some of the values stored in the word pirate aren´t all that bad either. Especielly if you are trying to make an impact on the younger generation.
[quote comment="306852"]Why not use a more mundane name such
as the Copyright Reform Party?
[/quote]
Because it´s as booring as hell, and nobody would think twice about skipping to the next page, article ad, or whatever?
[quote comment="306852"]
Lessig has a point that by using the
word Pirate in their name, they are
making themselves too easy a target
for the MAFIAA and those who have
bought the industry koolaid.[/quote]
And they make themselfs such an easy target it gets obvious to everyone what kind of a cheapshot the MAFIAA is taking. And therefore it practically nullifies that kind of attack.
It’s also important to note, that many states have, in the state party registration process, a certain maximum length for a party name. In Utah, it’s 4 words, and generally two of those are ‘of Utah’ and one should be ‘party’
‘Copyright reform party of Utah’ is thus too long.
Also, it’s worth pointing out, that the Pirate Party isn’t just about copyright reform, it’s about all sorts of intellectual property reform, AND personal privacy. Oh, and there isn’t just a US aprty, there’s some 30 Pirate Parties around the world.
[quote comment="306844"]
He’s just stating that the average idiot American will see the word “Pirate” and automatically decide they want to part in it.
The average american is not an idiot. I dont know where you come from but i am tired of people bashing the U.S. Every country is corrupt and has problems. When all is said and done though, it is a great place to live. To all you U.S. haters, keep it up and we will come to your country and destroy it. Right after we smoke your pot and rape your women of course.
As an American, the name “The Pirate Party” might as well be “The Silly Party” as portrayed by Monty Python in England.
Maybe they should come up with something friendly like, “The Fair Share Party” or even “The Sex Party.”
At least the last one would get people to take a second look at it. :P
[/quote] Please end your quotes.
Who cares what they call themselves? They don’t stand a chance in hell of ever getting anyone elected. The entire election process is corrupt to its very core and no name swapping is going to change that.
The citizens of the USA don’t elect the president anyway. Voting is nothing more than a sham to make people feel like they have some control over the outcome of the election. They don’t. The real choice is made by the Electoral College, who are free to completely disregard the “popular” vote and elect whomever they please.
The whole system is tightly controlled to make sure that the only ones who ever get elected are those who will maintain the status quo. Nobody who will rock the boat in any meaningful way will ever see a day in office.
Our government is bought and paid for by the corporations.
Lessig again proves how rational and intelligent he is. Andrew Norton completely misses Lessig’s point. Most people DO judge a book by its cover, and one must take that into consideration when trying to facilitate political change.
I’m not saying I disagree with their political views. But marketing is a necessary component of the political process, for better or worse. The “pirate party” will get absolutely nowhere as long as they keep that title.
U think its any better over here ?
The Referundum, ID cards.
Welcome to the police state, you’ll be following us soon enuff…
[quote comment="306781"]Because we’re idiots when it comes to our own govt. I agree with Lessig, they should think about a different name. Something with P2P or something.[/quote]
LMFAO, the P2P Party
TTTTEST
Hey, I get it… just don’t call it dope, right?
If Americans are really such air heads, they should call themselves Free-iPod-Party and they would run for president before they had realized it.
There has never been a Nigga Party, has there? So maybe Lessing has a point or maybe he hasn’t.
The great problem of the US, and thus the rest of the world, is the lack of equal representation in the US political system.
Could someone please explain the difference between an illegitimate pirate and a legit one?
Fuck the pirate party and all parties, fuck all the laws
DO NOT VOTE AT ALL, ACT INSTEAD OF LETTING YOUR LIFE INTO THE HAND OF CROOK POLITICIANS
@ 28
There is none.
It’s even so, that my country is once liberated from the spanish by pirates.
It’s like the word terrorist.
One’s terrorist, is someone else his freedom fighter.
I propose the name change to the Free Culture Party or The Peer Party.
Lesslig’s point was that people *WILL* judge the book by its cover, like it or not. So calling yourself this is shooting yourself in the foot, politically.
I ageee. We shouldn’t call ourselves “pirates”, at least officially. I don’t care about branding but such name supports the wrong idea of filesharing being something illegal, while actually it’s a natural phenomenon, an expression of a very basic freedom – freedom of information.
Downloading isn’t stealing.
Should be the Robbin Hood Party.
As someone asked “Could someone please explain the difference between an illegitimate pirate and a legit one?”
A bad pirate is like a thief. A good pirate is like Robbin Hood.
Quoting the article….
[quote]He went on to comment about the naming, referring to the ‘honest business fighting illegitimate thieves’ battle that Hollywood portrays with “Call your party the Pirate Party, and you’ll reinforce that. The branding is not one that I would embrace here in the United States.”
Naturally, the Pirate Party of the US disagrees. “As a professor, he should know better than to advocate judging a book by it’s cover” says Andrew Norton, head of the US Pirate Party.[/quote]
Andrew, stop downloading movies and learn to read. Lessig wasn’t judging the book, he was judging the cover.
I think Ralph Nader died about 20 years ago.
Ever since then, he’s just a Elvis-like Super-imposed video. Using green-screen technology, he appears every 4 or 8 years on current-events programming.
The tell-tale sign is that repeats the same stuff over and over. The whole conspiracy is carefully Republican controlled. They march him out just enough to split the democrats’ votes, but not enough to actually win — lest the public learn that he’s not alive.
From the article: “As a professor, he should know better than to advocate judging a book by it’s cover” says Andrew Norton.
Mr. Norton should’ve paid more attention in school. In criticizing the party’s name, Lessig is not judging the “book” (i.e. the party’s platform) by its “cover” (i.e. its name). He’s simply pointing out that the name will hurt them. Stating that says nothing about the worth of the party’s platform.
Also from the article: “It’s also unusual that the man that fought Hollywood’s increase of copyright, should find fault with a party that only seeks to represent the general public”.
Mr. Norton seems to be under the impression that if one agrees with one aspect of a political party one must agree with all aspects of it and never criticize it. I guess in addition to the class that discussed proverbs, he missed the one that talked about logical fallacies too.
I have a question for him though: if you really believe in what your party stands for and wants to achieve then do you really think it makes sense to lob baseless criticisms at one of the most experienced and most respected copyright analysts in the country just because he criticized your party’s *name*? Based on that, I’m tempted to go further than Lessig and wonder whether it’s not only the name that’s problematic. Even if the contents of the book are okay, there definitely seems to be some issues with its author.
The use of ‘pirate’ is a linguistic reclamation that pirates have made and so I am personally completely for its use by political parties all over the world.
lots and lots of very interesting content Ben, thanks
Ben, what you gonna do you brainy bro? :-D
no brother is gonna attempt to repeat your intelligent but convoluted dissertation articulation of nomenclature in media “hey girl listen up! Ben says pirate per se does not mean pirate de jure because it is a faux nome parody par excellence! i am member of the priate party but i am not a software prirate but i AM a pirate a romatic revolutionary figure of fiction! *sob*”
Ben wake up dude you gonna be great one day and i hope in time to lend an assist to the cause here in hand
if argument is won by explanation of facts there us no need to argue
For those interested, I grabbed a video of the whole answer at the conference.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fCyaF-Umod0
Lessig is a person who sells activism as academia. If he would abide to academic professionalism he would need to stop,
Lessig has also not the slightest clue about campaigning and believes in corruption. So better leave advocacy to the professionals.
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