Moby: The RIAA Needs to be Disbanded
Written by Ernesto on June 20, 2009The two million dollar fine handed out to Jammie Thomas by a Minnesota jury this week hasn’t done the music industry’s image much good. While lawyers and high level managers at the major labels cracked open the Champagne, artists such as Moby and Radiohead shook their heads in shame at what the music world has become.
Earlier this week the case of Jammie Thomas versus the RIAA went up for re-trial before a new jury. She was found guilty of sharing 24 songs using Kazaa and ordered to pay $80,000 per infringement, which all mounted to a total of $1.92 million in fines.
High ranking people at the record labels soon declared victory claiming that justice had been served. However, many of the artists to which the record label executives owe their well paid salaries are disgusted by the outcome of the case and the witch-hunt on their fans.
One of the artists that has shared his disappointment at the disproportionate fines is the American musician Moby. “Argh. what utter nonsense,” he writes on his website. “This is how the record companies want to protect themselves? Suing suburban moms for listening to music? Charging $80,000 per song?” he questions.
Moby: The RIAA Needs to be Disbanded
“I don’t know, but ‘it’s better to be feared than respected’ doesn’t seem like such a sustainable business model when it comes to consumer choice. How about a new model of ‘it’s better to be loved for helping artists make good records and giving consumers great records at reasonable prices’?”
Moby is right that the sue and scare tactics of the RIAA are not the ideal business model in the long run. However, thus far they have made millions from all the settled cases alone. In recent years over 30,000 people have allegedly settled with the RIAA for an average of $3500 dollars. This means that the RIAA have raked in more than 100 million dollars without even having to go to court.
In the UK, a coalition of top artists have spoken out against the actions of a music industry that chooses to criminalize their fans, and expressed their growing discomfort with record labels abusing copyrights for their own benefit.
Radiohead, who are also part of the coalition, even showed interest in testifying against the RIAA in the case of a Boston University student also accused of sharing several music recordings. Tenenbaum’s troubles started in 2003 when the RIAA rejected an offer to settle for $500. After a few more settlement attempts and legal quibbles, the case eventually went to court.
Moby, a proponent of Net Neutrality – another topic dear to most file-sharers – is equally dissatisfied with the RIAA’s tactics. In his view, it would be better for both artists and fans to end all the legal quibbles and focus on the art of music instead.
“I’m so sorry that any music fan anywhere is ever made to feel bad for making the effort to listen to music,” Moby writes, ending his blog post with some solid advice for the record labels that pump millions of dollars into the non-profit organization.
“The RIAA needs to be disbanded,” he writes.
Previously: ISPs End Anti-Piracy Talks With Entertainment Industry
Next: Irish RIAA Takes ISPs To Court To Force 3 Strikes
275 Responses
Wow, way to go Moby!
First?
30,000 people x $35000 = 105 Million not 10 Million
Moby knows where it’s at
HELL YES, it hurts to see others go down, it’s unbelievable that such things can happen in this world, I hope RIAA will someday go down very deep, how low can you go, your the ones that need to go to jail and think about what you are doing to all those people.
@Anonymous
s/$35000/$3500
good job
And that is why capitalism = fail.
Glad to see more artists join the fight.
Moby’s right, the RIAA sucks.
They need to refocus their strategies back into artist management and artist development. Their time in money would be much better spent in these departments.
#2
He said $3500 not $35,000.
Way to go Moby… Your a great musican to being with… and now.. your one the GREATEST in my book =]
30,000 people @ $3,500 each is $105,000,000 or 105 million dollars.
Wow … I hope this actually does something …
Thanks Moby, for being one of the good guys
#6
No. Intellectual “property” is not capitalism. Capitalism is competition and consumer choice.
“..the non-profit organization..”
Haha.
you said which-hunt, should be witch hunt
Copyright = corporation welfare = socialism.
30,000*3,500=105,000,000
learn how to multiply
she was a liar, thats why she got the 2million dollar judgement
@ 17
The RIAA couldn’t even prove it was her and not one of her children.
I wonder how much of the settlements the artists the Riaa suppositly represents have been given?
Would be worth looking into
-Jay
He got up in my respect by a major shot :-)
If Moby is in the mood to blow anyone, I’m available. What a feckless, effete little turd.
30,000 times $3500 equals $105 million. TF way underestimated there. Ernesto, do you need a Basic Math refresher course? LOL
“Please be advised we will not tolerate off topic posts, spam, trolls or personal attacks. Please help us to help you by NOT responding to such posts. ALL posts which fall into this category will be removed, including those responding to such posts.”
Ah, I get it. You’re way into stealing other peoples’ intellectual property, but off-topic posts and bad language are where you draw the line. It’s good to have principles.
Shut your f*cking stinking hole moby. what about all those albums you sold worldwide? wouldn’t you rather have given them away and not end up with anything? Oh now that you have money and you’re famous, you’re of course gonna be a hypocrite and say “yeah, filesharing is cool”. What a big steaming pile of bullsh!t. And your music sucks anyway. The real artists of this world are those bands that tour the country year in year out, like heavy metal bands.
You’re just a cheap copy of a copy of a copy.
well said Bob Dobolina, What a feckless, effete little turd.
@12
“Capitalism is competition and consumer choice.”
No, this is the “idea” of capitalism.
Capitalism has derived to a totalitarian regime where money and possessions are the authoritative defining cultural and social factors. It is high profit for the wealthy and alienation of individuality. It is power to the corporation, the few top fortunes as opposed to the idea of a democracy where the people have a right and duty to decide what’s best for them. It is creating fake desire and fake choices for the consumer.
There can be NO democracy, NO genuine creation, NO society dynamic, NO justice with a full-fledged capitalism like we live under now that crushes the individual and new ideas.
Capitalism needs moderation.
However, I’m afraid the only answer to this radical capitalism is a radical revolution.
If the RIAA is non profit and it gets proven that they are making a profit or trying to there non profit status can be taken away.
AND
Don’t non profits get tax exemption, doesn’t that mean that if the RIAA gets proven to get profits or try to get profits they can get done for tax evasion?
-Jay
@27
It is the labels that make a profit, not the RIAA – although I’m sure the RIAA executives have fat pockets from bribe money.
hmm but if the labels are using the riaa to generate profit they could be seen as circumventing the tax system by using a non profit shell company.
-Jay
Seems more and more artists are taking a stand against RIAA aggressive methods. Anyways labels battle is lost already… With all that bullshit of oppressing file sharing instead of embracing it they are just creating a market for Creative Commons licensed content…
I was not buying CD for like 5-10 years except for some cases when I needed to write something. Internet distribution is a way to go.
Then sharing of music was always possible and only growing… Tapes, VHR, CDs and now mp3 players with their own hard drives… It always was there… And growing… They woke up too late to oppress that and that anyways…
“which-hunt” should probably be “witch-hunt”
@29
Well I don’t think it would work that way though I’m no expert.
The labels probably pay taxes and the RIAA itself does not because it “supposedly” does not generate profit.
Moreover, the way those fools see it is that the RIAA does not even “generate” profit for the labels but rather making sure they get every last dime of their profit.
By suing people, they certainly get more money from each sued individual than what they would have generated but, unfortunately, the law is on their side and they are compensated for “damages” along with lost revenue.
Lol, looks like some people can’t multiply :S
Why a band that tours need to trespass on the public domain and ask for more than it deserve it?
If they work and are good people pay for their services see the Madonna example she made millions and didn’t have to share nothing with the labels because touring actually is not a stream revenue for big labels LoL
Drop the BS artist have a fair chance at gaining fair compensations in the form of gigs, what else those lazy bastards need?
No where no one is gaining royalties for 120 years there is not one human being alive today with that age.
People are mad because copyright is running a mock inside society, the limits of what people would accept were long passed and are far behind it’s time to set those artists bastards that feel people own them something when is the other way around those lazy artists think the people have to pay everything for them it’s time to say no.
Legalize filesharing now!
Moby said:
“it would be better for both artists and fans to end all the legal quibbles and focus on the art of music instead.”
First, Moby has his facts wrong, the RIAA didn’t ask for nor assign any price for the songs at all. $80K per was an independent jury finding of damages, plain and simple.
But I think every artist and every label and every member of the RIAA would agree with Moby’s statement. No one wants nor benefits from the current state of affairs. In fact, I would wager that these things would draw to a complete halt the moment the so-called “fans” stopped pilfering and started paying for products again. “No justice no peace” works both ways and Tenenbaum is in deep trouble now. Serves him right. Keep infringing? Expect nothing but hard times ahead. Pay for what you take? All the legal troubles evaporate. But no business is going to stand by while you ransack their catalog and the law is on their side. Nor should they, and Tenenbaum is next.
@Bob Dobolina
Lets face it.
RIAA is a greedy pig.
They steal from the consumers everyday.
I choose to pirate not because i’m poor, because I want stand up against their bullshit.
omg u guys are all noobs:
30,000*3,500=10,000,000
TF is right, learn 2 maths.
Back on topic, Glad to see more artist joining the fight against the scum, such as the RIAA!!
Yeah right, revolution to what exactly?
There is other functional economic strategy that people have been shielded from?
Pure capitalism is about freedom, and minimal state interference that is what not you see today therefore it’s not capitalism because if it was those lazy bad artist would be starving right now and not passing laws in congress.
If capitalism was being realy used the copyright industry would already be gone and people would be free to create a new market with new laws, but it’s not what is happening is it?
What is happening is some communist people think that society owns them something and the people should pay them for them to have a life.
@38
I agree with you.
Please, read my post again.
@24 I see, selling your music is bad, sending single mothers to bankruptcy is good.
there is A LOT of competition among intellectual property. every day, every hour, every minute and second, music, books, movies and video games COMPETE against each other.
there is also a lot of consumer choice. in fact, there has never been more. ever since the induction of copyright in 1709 with the statute of anne creativity and creative products have only increased by a very large margin as it allowed more artists to make a living doing art.
what you call the “free market” i call “chinese knock-off anarchy”. you don’t want competition, you want assimilation, replication, forgeries. you want the parasites who steal other people’s designs and studies to be the ones who profit as they can reap all the benefits without investing any R&D or having to hire the best minds to dream up new creations. you don’t want innovation, you want regurgitation.
in short, you’re an idiot.
@39
Where does communism fall into this??? O.O
It is just another face of capitalism better known as monopolism.
Ernesto
Oops.
Looks like I copy pasted too fast. XD
This is the link :
Capitalism
Well done!
@43:
When the state interfere it is socialism or not?
When you go running to the state to get concessions and assert a de facto monopoly and make everybody else pay for your troubles sounds like what capitalism to you? Because for me it does resemble very much socialist states like china and not free markets where business models should be let go and fail if they can’t fend for themselves.
Capitalism? You are blaming capitalism?
These tards, and their lawyers, at the RIAA almost certainly voted for the socialist a-hole 0bama.
You can’t steal from socialists! What were you thinking?
These are Democrats doing this, not capitalists.
@36 – if you don’t like what the companies associated with the RIAA put out, then the correct response is to boycott it, not just steal it anonymously.
First of all, its funny how people feel entitled to “share” and illegally distribute copyrighted music when they have no permission from the creators.
They know that this music is for sale, that it has copyright protection, and they go and distribute it all over the internet.
Record labels have a right to defend their mecrhandise. It is the artists fault for signing over all of their rights and selling their souls to these record labels. Moby and radiohead both are made by record labels.
Without the backing of the record labels to boost them to fame they would be like all the other unknown bands.
Radiohead and Moby both are full of it. They are rich because people bought their albums, not downloaded them.
I do not condone what record labels do, but it is your own fault for taking these peoples media and giving it away for free without permission.
first off;
i really feel bad jammie she got railroaded by the SYSTEM an i KNOW out of those 16 jourers at least 1 of them has kids that download music,movies etc(i cant prove this mind you, but the seems logical)
Secondly;
Moby said,”I’m so sorry that any music fan anywhere is ever made to feel bad for making the effort to listen to music”
So WHY dont you do something about it??,Anyone can spout tripe on a blog (just look at some of verbal diarrhea said here sometimes,yea you know who you are…).Moby you have the $$( i think…)and resources organize a Pirate Party(if you say your sooo into Net Neutrality) get other musicians,artists and the like that feel the same and MAKE A STAND!! MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!! THE TIME IS NOW!!if ya don`t…….your opinion is just more Verbal Diarrhea for the net……
my 2 cents…..
(will be also posted on his blog…)
Actually the knock offs are better than the originals in some cases obviously Asia will not need to pay for knowledge for much longer as did the U.S. after the great war that stole a lot of IP from the Europeans and the Europeans stole a lot of IP from Asia and Persia after the dark ages but that is in the past and if history is to repeat itself anyone betting in an IP based economy will be fated with bankruptcy and famine.
I totally agree with # 46
boycott these industries instead of stealing their media if you do not like what they put out.
you can hear any song through streaming on the internet, or on the radio.
I stopped buying music because the price is way too high. DVD’s too.
I buy if i see items on sale for cheap, or on clearance.
Moby website is down.
Okay, first of all:
30,000 * 3,500 = 105 million
It’s hilarious that a group of people who can’t settle that issue are debating the relative merits of various economic systems.
Secondly, yes, capitalism is a very efficient system for allocating capital. That’s all it’s good it. It’s not good at social justice Some people are born poor, and you can’t possibly argue that they’re on a level playing field with people born rich, having greater access to superior education, resources, and, yes, capital. (If someone can, I’d love to see the argument.)
Similarly, the capitalistic system currently in place in America causes the corporations that are currently “in power,” so to speak, to remain in power. If you want to make millions in the music industry, you have to work with the record labels and the RIAA (at least for a point), and our American recording industry is one of the most corrupt industries on the planet because they take a product that is relatively inexpensive to produce and force the artists to sign over the rights to the material in return for access to their distribution networks.
Now, what we’re seeing here is the mad desperate clawing of a system rapidly becoming outmoded: the distribution networks which are controlled by the mainstream record labels are so drastically inferior to online file-sharing distribution networks that they will eventually be replaced by them.
Fortunately for the RIAA, they own the “rights” to musician’s songs, and so if someone tries to acquire these songs for free (even if the artist themselves has no problem with it), they can be sued for outrageous sums like this, or be intimidated into settling. (No one can possibly argue that what this person did was worth a two million dollar fine, of course. You might argue that it’s preventative, that they are making an example out of someone because there are many others they do not catch, but nearly two million dollars for two and a half CDs worth of songs is so drastically ridiculous. It’s not like this person will be able to pay: they will just be forced to declare bankruptcy and ruin their credit for the next ten years.)
Because the RIAA used to be a necessary institution, they’ll be able to do this sort of ridiculous BS for the next couple of years or so, but eventually, they will become outmoded and music will become free. Not because it should be free or because it’s morally right to be free, but because competition will drive the price down to nonexistence.
Some of you might gripe and groan that the artist won’t get any money if music is freely accessed (and I might wonder what you’re doing on a TorrentFreak if that’s how you feel), but an artist already makes only about nine cents per song per album sold.
Think about that. On a ten song album that costs $15, they artist will make ninety cents. CDs only cost about a buck to produce. Where is the rest of that money going? To marketing (which includes the aforementioned outmoded distribution of a now-unnecessary physical object) and to the middle-man, the music executive, who adds absolutely no value to the consumer’s product but who stands between them and the artist.
This is capitalism. The people who are rich before stay rich, even when there is no longer a value-added function to their business. They monopolize the industry and this monopolization insures that the consumer has no choice but to pay for their product, it drives prices up and consumer satisfaction down. Eventually, perhaps, democratic forces will eliminate the RIAA, but not as long as people defend their shady business practices as the Best Examples of American Capitalism.
Yes they do have a right to defend their merchandise except that the music itself should have never been labeled a merchandise in the first place. Copyright was about giving rights not ownership and it was meant to stimulate the creation of arts and sciences not to pay artists and scientists much less protect plastic disc sales and it’s even more absurd when artists have others means of revenue like tours that cannot be downloaded.
30,000 * 3,500
= (3 * 35)*(10,000 * 100)
= 105,000,000
= 105 Million
Got That !
@18 She is responsible for the actions of her children while they are minors, so it doesn’t matter.
Sure are a lot of dumb people in these response stacks. No offense intended, of course.
@51
RIAA,MPAA or some AA prolly DDosed it jus to “silence” him……
Let’s set this straight…it’s not about the artist losing money…never was. It’s not about the imagined lost of revenue that corporations say they are losing…that’s a lie anyways. It’s about control and the power that corporations get from that. The power over what we see, hear, learn, and pay for. The power they can exert over governments to do things that they want. Big Business has become the new Big Brother
I have 1 external drive I keep all my music on. At these rates it comes out to about $4,239,920,000. If you don’t know place values this high, thats 4 Billion 239 Million 920 Thousand dollars. I am willing to sell this for only 3 Billion and I will use every penny of it to fight the RIAA.
It’s cool that Moby and other artists are taking a stand against the RIAA’s harsh tactics.
However, one question I have is this: If a musician embraces file sharing, how does that help them make money? I don’t quite understand how free file sharing would be a good business model.
Good for him. I mean how did they get this $80,000/song figure. How does downloading one song cost them that much. How hasn’t this been appealed as an 8th amendment violation? Can they prove it costs them $80,000?
@59
File sharing makes artists more money then buying CDs do. Artists don’t make much from CDs in the first place, their true profit comes from concerts, merchandise, things of the like.
@59 eric:
musicans make squat off a CD (something like2-3 cents per)if a band (say Metallica,(dont be hatin))
uploaded an album to TPB THEN put oout the CD thru their OWN CD printer company,did all their own distributation they would see 100% of profits,plus what they make off their touring
Those ‘peer jury’ members that convicted the suburban mom need to take a good hard look at their lives.
cool story bro :)
I’d just like to remind people that Nine Inch Nails “gave away” their album, meaning it was a free download, and wound up making some $30 million, more than they ever did going through a record label, by providing box sets and making money through advertising revenue alone.
Lol at the whichhunt, don’t you mean witchhunt.
We are artist’s ourself and think this is crazy for the outcome that that lady got. I think there is other was to maybe curve some of the file sharing but to totally get rid of it just is not gonna happen. The labels put off the internet years ago and now they are trying to play catch up to there slumping sales. they are the reason they are feeling the heat.
Okay, first off, lying in a court of law is perjury, which against the law. That means if they had absolute proof that she was lying, they could in turn put her back on trial in a separate case.
Second, that should have no effect on the overall verdict in *this* case. Handing out such ridiculously large fines has only served to make the American (our) legal system look retarded.
What they jury should have done is just stick her with the 750$/song minimum and let that pan out (like she would be able to pay 18,000$ anyway), then put her back on trial for perjury and possible worse punishment.
That being said, I agree word for word on Moby here.
June 18, 2009 BACK Print Email
NEW: RIAA Comment on Verdict in Capitol Records v. Jammie Thomas-Rasset
RIAA REACTION:
“We appreciate the jury’s service and that they take this as seriously as we do. We are pleased that the jury agreed with the evidence and found the defendant liable. Since day one, we have been willing to settle this case and we remain willing to do so.”
– Cara Duckworth
#####
The Recording Industry Association of America is the trade group that represents the U.S. recording industry. Its mission is to foster a business and legal climate that supports and promotes our members’ creative and financial vitality. Its members are the record companies that comprise the most vibrant national music industry in the world. RIAA® members create, manufacture and/or distribute approximately 85% of all legitimate sound recordings produced and sold in the United States. In support of this mission, the RIAA works to protect intellectual property rights worldwide and the First Amendment rights of artists; conducts consumer, industry and technical research; and monitors and reviews state and federal laws, regulations and policies. The RIAA® also certifies Gold®, Platinum®, Multi-Platinum™, and Diamond sales awards, as well as Los Premios De Oro y Platino™, an award celebrating Latin music sales.
Contact:
Jonathan Lamy
Cara Duckworth
Liz Kennedy
202/775-0101
so what music artists were party to the claims against here, LETS start never buy there crap campaign
lets also make sure that any suit brought by the riaa the artists get this same treatment. THEY can get 2 mill but if they lose 10 mill cause no one again buys that artists stuff….
The force is with Moby!
The RIAA/MPAA need to just cut their “sue ‘em all” crap and actually offer legal alternatives rather than trying to shut off the Internet and stick their fingers in their ears, pretending the public has no voice an are made up entirely of criminals.
If they don’t, by the least they should get their bankruptcy papers ready for filing, because soon enough their stacks of money will run down to nothing without a customer base to support them in the future.
@57
Best comment. I agree 100%
If I was in the jury and had to put a dollar amount on the songs she shared, it would be $1 each. Same price itunes sells music for. $24 total and be done with it.
@Reasoned Mind
M’kay, lessee.
If you really think that an unbiased jury assigned that high a penalty to a mother of four for sharing a handful of songs, you really need a reality check.
Right off the bat you assume that nobody is able to make a living now that the big bad pirates are horking everything in sight, being greedy little pigs by selfishly hoarding their monies and taking, taking, taking. No. Bad Reasoned Mind. Once again I must cite the MPAA, which posted record profits /despite/ filesharing. And as I recall, the other industries (especially recording) are still making plenty of cash. As I further recall, the artists get next to nothing through the recording labels. So hey, maybe you’re half right, but I’d amend your statement to be: “The recording industry executives benefit from the current state of affairs, but it isn’t enough for them, so they’re punishing innocent people in the name of their profits.” If you posted like that, people might actually listen to you.
Moar assumption. We’re downloading, so we’re not buying /anything/. This is fallacious. If it weren’t, sales would have completely died the moment p2p networks hit the ‘Net. Next.
It sure does. As long as the recording industry tries to squeeze the public dry, people will pirate its stuff. The same goes for any overly controlling congolmerate of multinational corporations whose every move is based on profit, profit, profit. To put it simply, they are evil, and you cannot call someone a criminal for refusing to give in to their BS.
I’m going to fix this. “Keep infringing? Great, you’re helping spread a cause in the name of human rights and the freedom of information. Pay for what you take? Now you’re supporting a cause that aims to restrict you, control you, impose rules on how you use what you own in your own home, charge you ludicrous amounts of money for zeroes and ones, and treat you like a criminal through DRM and random threat letters even when you comply with their rules.”
No just public is going to stand by while businesses extort and cheat them and morality is on their side. Morality is far greater than any law.
yeah, but then if you pay a dollar for no rights over a file (remember DRM?) you are plain stupid. i’d rather spit in the face of the MPAA than pay a dollar for a song. and if it seems unfair to “rip off” artists then you have no common sense, as artists don’t even get money from record sales, they get it from concerts.
Not only the RIAA (and all other similar “associations”) need to disband, we need to create a database of ALL of its members and ask all companies to not hire ANY of the people associated with the RIAA. Make them lose their job, and keep them jobless forever. They need to realize the harm they have done to the world, the hard way, the recession way.
For fuksake people remember it is still a CRIME to share copyrighted works publicly. But overkill punishment? Sure.
The arguments over Ernesto’s arithmetic skills are moot. Is that figure supposed to represent the total paid or what the RIAA saw of it? Revenue and profit are very different things. Going by what’s happened in Europe, 10% seems about right, for what the rights holders ultimately see. The other 90% has been split amongst the tracking companies, the lawyers and the fees paid to the courts and ISPs, to turn IP addresses into names and postal addresses.
If someone knows definitively what percentage the RIAA does receive, please say.
@NonW00t
Copyright infringement is a civil case, not a criminal case. Get your fact straight. :)
Wow, way to go Moby!
While I don’t like people stealing music online, I say Fuck these assholes from RIAA. They make me want to go underground and start stealing every damn CD out there.
Simply way to stop RIAA in it’s tracks… STOP BUYING MUSIC in any form until the RIAA stops its’s rampage against the fans…
Disbanded .. how about dismembered
hey #24 anonymous!, i think u need ta cool your jets n out a sock in your freaken mouth b4 u gett you ass beat by someone big time, not me, but when u get your ass beat one day then jus remember what its for, fur makin stupid comments that get ppl into trouble, bc moby knows what hes talkin about., ppl jus have ta keep on sharing thats the ONLY important thing in this hateful world
pshhht to the RIAA defenders who act as if anyone who thinks their behavior is retarded must saying so because they endorse stealing music. Moby stands to lose money when that happens so that obviously isn’t HIS point. point is, i haven’t bought anything since I heard the verdict and that’s at least $20 bucks they haven’t rec’d from me as a direct result of this verdict. i am mulling things over. will they eventually get it when an album i really want comes out? yeah probably for that album. but i’m looking at the unsigned band websites and am definitely going spend my time browsing their stuff instead of the industries bins for the near future. oh, and continuing to support indy artists. (cdbaby.com anyone?)
“30,000 people x $35000 = 105 Million not 10 Million”
Go back and read th story again. It was $3500, not $35000.
“she was a liar, thats why she got the 2million dollar judgement”
If that’s true, then the jury violated the instructions they were given. Specifically, instruction no. 21 said:
“In determining the just amount of statutory damages for an infringing defendant, you may consider the willfulness of the defendant’s conduct, the defendant’s innocence, the defendant’s continuation of infringement after notice or knowledge of the copyright or in reckless disregard of the copyright, the effect of the defendant’s prior or concurrent copyright infringement activity, and whether profit or gain was established.”
The system is such that unless one of the jury members reveals something to the contrary, we have to assume they followed the instructions and did not consider the defendant’s unwillingness to confess as a reason to inflate the damage award.
“she was a liar, thats why she got the 2million dollar judgement”
then, according to proportional answer to bad deeds, i guess george w should be condemned to 2600 capital executions and a 500 trillions fine for his constant lies and cheating during 2004 elections.
Wow. Another blog response thread filled with ignorant assholes.
The internet is truly awesome.
and to most of those who talk about capitalism : at a point, ask yourself if vomiting propaganda will convince anyone that’s only a bit clever.
You americans have no clue about what’s capitalism or socialism, you live in a fascist state since the 20’s.
capitalism hasn’t failed hence why the french are still here
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes indeed, thanks for your contribution. You are an ASS-et.
hehe yea
cool story bro :)
Will the fake manky please stop :)
the RIAA is POS, they strong arm everyone. all that read this know..
the question how do we get rid of them
Thats what she gets for using Kazaa.
Moby’s actually a chill guy, on the whole. As proven in this article. He has some decent tunes too. Not my favorite but he still puts out the occasional gem.
for all of you people that say sharing isnt a crime and sharing doesnt hurt anyone or doesnt take money from anyone, how about you all share your names addresses and credit card infomation right here and we will see how much sharing actually hurts people.
when one or two people share a cd with each other then no its not really hurting anyone but when it 1 cd shared by millions of people then it doesnt start effecting people. but no you guys are right why should someone make something pay for it to be protected and then get pissed when people rip it.
We all appreciate your support Moby, but perhaps you and some of your superrich musical friends could help put up the $1.9 million for this lady. That would teach the RIAA a less for sure.
Moby doesn’t get it. This isn’t about reasonable prices or new business models. This is about the comfort of the internet’s anonymity turning people into a bunch of lazy theives. No one wants to pay for anything. No new business model is going to change that. A business model in which the distributor has drastically lower profits is not viable.
It’s also not “just listening to music.” It’s funny how the internet has become this void of moral responsibility or legal accountability. If people actually cared about something besides their own happiness, they would support the artists.
This has nothing to do with being feared or respected either. This is just like the law for any other crime. If you break into a store, they obviously wont tell you “nah, that’s okay.” When people face the consequences of their crimes, it isn’t about the law trying to look scary. It’s above childish notions like that. It’s justice. Although, with many people, they only do the right thing for fear of the consequences.
Lastly, Moby isn’t one to talk. He already has a HUGE well established legitamate fanbase. The effects of piracy don’t hit him nearly as hard as they do for smaller, lesser known artists.
Isn’t this kind of like creating a monopoly? In a world of piracy, the smaller people can’t make it? Doesn’t sound like capitalism to me. More like facism.
Why aren’t all these “disgruntled artists” banding together to form an idealistic record company? One that actually promotes artists and music instead of company profits? One that recognizes the value of their fans, and embraces new market models to keep up with their changing demands?
How about fixed fines @ 200% of the RRP of a song.
Good one you Moby. However, seeing you’re in America, you better watch out. You could be jailed for going against a terrorist organization like the RIAA. We all know now America supports terrorists.
@ neofag
“It’s also not “just listening to music.” It’s funny how the internet has become this void of moral responsibility or legal accountability. If people actually cared about something besides their own happiness, they would support the artists.”
Erm…. How about a f**ing tour you lazy kuntas..Go away tard, You ain’t getting sh1t.
Well it certainly seems like the disgruntled pirates who are being told they have to pay for stuff are now grouping up. :)
1. On another note, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
2. America has freedom of speech. We don’t jail people for speaking their mind. That’s what sets us apart from most countries.
3. We don’t let crime slide, unlike Europe. For over a decade, countries like spain and sweden calmly stood by while people were loosing millions of dollars and they refused to even raise a finger to stop it.
4. The RIAA isn’t a terrorist organization. Go learn about what terrorism is. Your ignorance is unbelievable.
5. America is one of the only countries that is opposing religious extremists with conviction today. We do what it takes. Europe, on the other hand, doesn’t care about or stand for anything. They just stand around, completely detached.
^Pathetic wanker^
@82, don’t forget that all of those small fines were settled out of court. The strategy they use is to make money, it’s not even its primary goal to defend copyrights.
hahahahahaha
I have not bought, listened to, or know any music made in the last 15 years that is backed by RIAA artists. I listen to free online music, local musicians and bands. The only radio I listen to is talk radio. This lawsuit is the reason. I realized before file sharing that the RIAA was a bunch of greedy, non-talented Jews exploiting musicians, and the general public. They are no different than the mafia. The RIAA going away won’t do anything but get rid of all the crap music that has been shoved down the general public’s throat for as long as I can remember.
105 million = more than 10 million
I don’t get it? 30k*3500=105mln
Or what the heck are people here arguing?
@101
I think you have a mis-undertanding of property.
You can only STEAL another person’s property.
So if you go into a record store and steal an album you are stealing PROPERTY.
All property is based on scarce resources.
Ideas are not scarce resources.
You can say a paragraph to me and I will remember it. The paragraph you said to me is now in my brain – which is my property.
I can now repeat what you said.
IP is a ridiculous false idea based on mercantilism. It’s the idea of creating a monopoly on things that are not scarce – ideas.
Now maybe the media it’s printed on – cds, dvds etc. IS scarce but the actual writings – music -etc – once in the public is no longer scarce and once I buy a book or a CD it’s MY property – I should be able to do WHATEVER I want with it – including copying it and giving it to friends.
It’s unfortunate that people don’t understand that PROPERTY RIGHTS can’t be transferred to Intellectual ideas.
If you don’t want your creations to spread – Keep them in your head.
@ 106
USA, USA, USA!!!
Honestly, this country genuinely has no more moral fibre than any other, this crap about it being unique in the world is internal propaganda and i feel sorry for smart Americans who have to live under this, it must be tiring to the mind. The US has caused more damage around the world than any other nation in modern history.
Your points:
1. On another note, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
- that wasn’t really a point.
2. America has freedom of speech. We don’t jail people for speaking their mind. That’s what sets us apart from most countries.
- which countries? I think you’ll find freedom of speech in almost all westernised countries, if you can really call it freedom of speech when some have vastly freer voices than others…
3. We don’t let crime slide, unlike Europe. For over a decade, countries like spain and sweden calmly stood by while people were loosing millions of dollars and they refused to even raise a finger to stop it.
- You are absolutely correct here. The US is always the first to defend industry and capitalism. But to suggest you do not let crime slide is just pure fiction. The amount of crime, not only ignored around the world by the US, but actually caused directly by them is astounding, and you have the audacity to bring up protecting the freedom of capital as some idealistic, profoundly great thing to be proud of over all other crimes you fail to even recognise when compared to the glistening glow of the dollar sign.
4. The RIAA isn’t a terrorist organization. Go learn about what terrorism is. Your ignorance is unbelievable.
Yes, go learn about the United States and what is has done over the world, and the 50+ (and i’m being very conservative here) wars it has either supported or directly been involved with since the second world war.
5. America is one of the only countries that is opposing religious extremists with conviction today. We do what it takes. Europe, on the other hand, doesn’t care about or stand for anything. They just stand around, completely detached.
- Opposing? Depends which ones you are talking about, because i seem to recall the evangelical extremists being quite a darling in political strategy in modern America today, and the general movement is very extreme, even if it’s core members aren’t.
@113 : IPs only apply to creative works, not ideas themselves.
That is the stupidest thinf I have ever heard. There would be no entertainment industry if that were true. Jesus, do you even think about what you are writing>?
@Reasoned Mind
Maybe I am assuming too much, but you seem like a staunch free market capitalist. Whether this is the case or not, I submit that the market will eventually decide on behalf of the pirates. Albeit a fact that piracy is increasing every day, record companies are still making record profits. In the near future, there will still be money to be made for the record labels; they need only to adapt to the new trends. Fortunately, the record labels seem to be set in their ways, and they will soon fade from dinosaur to fossil.
I imagine a new era where record labels aren’t needed, where bands work in collectives to sponsor each other and go on tour together, an era when radio stations and amphitheaters aren’t owned by companies who also own record labels, an era when art and information is free and shared.
@neostyles
omg, what “moral responsibility” are u talking about? humans are not vorlons but stupid lazy monkey-likes, cheap satisfaction addicts. entertainment industry used that to the full extent, now reaping what they’ve sown, people consume tons of multimedia crap but won’t pay a penny. if that means some part of industry sh’d die then it sh’d die, no quarter, no chance to revert, there’ll be no more bullshit mobys, no million fines for copying, smth new will survive and stay thru for years, until next turn…
The only way to defeat this form of “capitalism” (which I do not agree IS “capitalism”), is through real capitalism, the economic democracy each one of us wields every time we shop for goods and services. Every dollar is a “vote”. And we need to stop “voting” for RIAA label music, even if that means ignoring artists we like (go to their concerts instead – that’s where they make their money anyway).
We need to send a strong economic message that this behavior will no longer be tolerated.
@115
I understand IP Law very well. I know that it applies to expression.
But if I buy a recording of your expression – ie- CD – That CD is MY PROPERTY. That’s how property rights are supposed to work. I should then be able to copy it on other property of MINE – my computer, other CD’s I BOUGHT, etc. and give or SELL MY PROPERTY to whomever I want.
Think a little harder before you spew what people have been spewing for hundreds of years on IP. IP is mercantilism transferred to NON-PROPERTY.
“There would be no entertainment industry if that were true.”
WRONG! There would be no entertainment industry AS WE KNOW IT.
@62
Artists usually don’t condone complete piracy of music for piracy’s sake, they do lose money but not enough to go broke. When Trent Reznor said on stage to go nuts and download songs like mad, it’s because he saw the price on CDs and found that the reason that his albums were priced far higher than others was because he has a captured market and they (read: studios/RIAAA) can make more money. They make more money, not Trent, the one who made the song.
Reznor added music for purchase on his website, for as low as $1 – $3 or so. If an artists gets < 10% of a CD purchased (so less than around $3) the rest of that goes to marketing, distribution, etc. By selling one song off of their website, they get FULL profit, greater distribution because of the internet, greater freedom and starves the RIAA and other companys of money which is used to sue mothers.
In addition to this, it also endears them to pro-filesharing groups, who will probably purchase the artists songs to spite the RIAA and support the artist. It’s mutually benficial.
Way to go Moby! Let’s here it for a guy who STOLE music from REAL ARTISTS and made a good living thanks to the RIAA! Music has become hobby time thanks to filesharing. There is no more money to develop great talent so you’ll be getting your Brittany well into the next century!
That’s not how copyright works. Do you seriously, think that the people who came up with copyright wanted a world in which everyone copied instead of paid? Copyright protects copyright holders, it doesn’t mean that you can do whatever your heart desires.
Are you really that retarded or do you just make snarky comments to skirt around people’s points? How could there concievably be ANY entertainment industry with no creative expression?
Ultimately, 3500 per 30000 people IS STILL more than 10 million dollars, so he’s not incorrect in what he wrote.
retards.
In other news…
I don’t give a crap. Pirate your ass off!!
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH
@neostyle
I understand that’s not how copyright works. That’s my point.
If you are a believer in PROPERTY RIGHTS. Which is what modern FREEDOM is based on – then you can’t be in favor of IP.
IP VIOLATES property rights. It tells me that I don’t have the right to my property.
For example – I might have a bunch of steel that I purchased to make a certain type of screwdriver that I saw.
However under IP law if that screwdriver is patented I can’t USE MY OWN PROPERTY to make and sell that screwdriver.
IP laws are anti-property.
The idea that something that is non-scarce is “property” (IP) is ridiculous on it’s face.
It’s a scam.
Just because you are viewing all this from your personal Plato’s Cave does not make reality any less real.
“That’s not how copyright works. Do you seriously, think that the people who came up with copyright wanted a world in which everyone copied instead of paid? Copyright protects copyright holders, it doesn’t mean that you can do whatever your heart desires.”
at the end the of the day, we filesharers probabably won’t have to put up with this brutality for much longer,the record and movie labels are losing money at a precipitious rate and will soon be filing bankruptacy never to employ obnoxious trolls or evil lawyers again.
we deserve free music and free movies it is our human righ
Hahaha, that crazy Moby! Unfortunately, he’s wrong on this one. The RIAA is first and foremost intent in protecting HIS rights, against the ever growing free riders that destroy creativity in the name of “freedom of the internet”. And it is NOT, in fact, extorting millions from suburban moms. It is still willing to settle everything for a couple thousand bucks, even though it is perfectly within their rights to demand the full amount. But of course, none of the so-called “champions of freedom” mention that, do they?
He said over 10 mil, 105 mil is over 10 mil.
@neostyles
no, the point is simple… artists do want their works spread that is why they release them and don’t keep them to themselves. they have no natural ability or right to prevent anyone else from having them or using them once they have shared them with the public however and must learn to accept that fact. copyright is simply an attempt to create scarcity where none exists in the attempt to make a profit. it is not a natural right and it has no moral basis. it is in a way the same as slavery. if you were to enslave people and had done so for long enough you may assume it is your right to keep slaves. others may give up the right to keep slaves but why should you? afterall slavery also provides great economic value to some at a great cost to others. and many people did justify it the same way for a long time.
I think it’s somewhat stupid that you’ve gone from saying that the entertainment industry would be no more and then making a RADICAL JUMP to “there would be no creative expression.”
There would be creative expression there would just be no entertainment industry in it’s current mercantile model.
Think about it or continue to look at those Platonic cave shadows on the wall. Your choice.
===
I wrote – “WRONG! There would be no entertainment industry AS WE KNOW IT.”
Neostyles wrote “Are you really that retarded or do you just make snarky comments to skirt around people’s points? How could there concievably be ANY entertainment industry with no creative expression?”
May I suggest that the Musicians who disapprove of the RIAAs tactics club together and pay off Jammie Thomas’ fine, Then demand, en masse, a meeting with their record labels and tell them to cut that shit out or they can forget any more material to sell.
I’m guessing that if, say, 10,000 artists did that today, the RIAA may see their practices in a different light.
But they also need profit to make new works. And that is what you dumb pirates fail to recognize. And you have no natural ability to take what is not yours on the basis of some lofty pseudo-freedom bullshit.
If you consider any kind of law, enslavement, well then tough luck. I hate to break it to you, but that’s how society works. We have laws. Moral basis? How about preventing greedy people from stealing people’s work. What’s your moral basis, for theft, genius?
we deserve free music and free movies it is our human righ
What makes you think you are so entitled? You’re an idiot.
The record labels are the criminals here. Ripping off the artists and ripping off the buyers at the other end. The robber barons live! They created the “non-profit” RIAA to collect even more.
@neostyles
On the contrary we do have a natural right to do what we wish with our property so long as we do not harm others. and we are not harming others by denying them the right to dictate how we use our property.
there is no theft, save of the publics right to do what they wish with their own property. there is infringements on a monopoly privelidge granted to certain members of society. i am not saying copyright is slavery. simply that is an infringement of rights justified in its time in the same way. profit for some at the expense of others. it is an abrogation of our rights to enrich a few. there are other ways to profit from idea’s. simply because copyright exists on the law books does not mean it is just or fair.
i shared 50 songs in protest to this case.
oooh neostyles is getting angry, i like it that way, i bet neostyles is a lame sockpuppet of mitch bainwol ahahaha, not long to go now RIAA, first you sue people for 2 million and now you called me an IDIOT (oh noes whatever shall i do) for pirating everything under the sun.
ahahah bankruptcy isnt far away buddy, go home you are outdated technology and thuggery has let you limp on with a galvanised will to survive, but we will end this organisation to put it out of its misery.
PIRATE ON BOYS
PIRATE ON
@neostyles
Also calling me and idiot doesn’t advance your argument. it simply shows that you are willing to stoop to insults and implies you are unlikely to be reasonable or consider seriously the opinions of others.
oooh neostyles is getting angry, i like it that way, i bet neostyles is a lame sockpuppet of mitch bainwol ahahaha, not long to go now RIAA, first you sue people for 2 million and now you called me an IDIOT (oh noes whatever shall i do) for pirating everything under the sun
ahahah bankruptcy isnt far away buddy, go home you are outdated technology and thuggery has let you limp on with a galvanised will to survive, but we will end this organisation to put it out of its misery.
PIRATE ON BOYS
PIRATE ON
@neostyles
I’m tired of you. Lessee.
Um, actually, you don’t get it. If the industries were to present reasonable alternatives between paying ludicrous amounts of money for DRM-ladened media, and downloading it and being called a baby-raping pirate by superheroes like you, then maybe some people would listen. But nope, they raise prices, they push new DRM, they sue their customers and treat them like scum. And they’re evil because they do it all in the name of PROFIT. It’s not surprising that so many people reject their business.
You’re exactly like the RIAA and MPAA. No wonder everyone always says that you and Reasoned Mind are both trolls under their employ. This is how you’re like the MAFIAA: You’re attempting to bully people into submission. You’re approaching a crowd of people who (presumably) have never hurt anyone in their life and calling them thieves and criminals and trying to spread FUD (okay, so you’re also like Microsoft) to make them renounce their evil ways. I seriously hope you never go into PR unless you understand something: *whispered* People don’t like that. Free-thinking people don’t appreciate being bullied by anyone, especially commercial organizations based on profit. In fact, people are more likely to turn away from those organizations once they realize that people like you defend them.
People do support the artists- it’s called donating straight to them instead of handing all your money over to the Rich Idiots Abusing Artists (RIAA). I will not support an organization that condones and practices evil.
Filesharing is not a crime. Stop trying to confuse people with your etymological BS.
Because you’re dealing with the physical world and objects that you actually can steal. You can’t steal something that can be copied endlessly. You can’t assign value to something with infinite supply. BASIC premise of free market. Hence, filesharing is not theft. I eagerly await the day that you realize this so you can see just how inane your posts are.
The pot is calling the kettle black, I see. Have you /ever/ taken the time to look up how they deal with filesharing? Threats. Intimidation. Extortion. Sounds a lot like terrorism to me.
You cannot ‘loose’ what you never had in the first place. Got it? Under your logic, my local bakery could sue me if I chose to grow my own grain and bake my own bread, that is similar to theirs, because they ‘lost a chance to make a gain.’
The people who came up with copyright never had any idea that we’d have an Internet. Face it: copyright as we know it is obsolete. PROGRESSION as a society means making CHANGES to adapt to NEW TECHNOLOGY, not SUPPRESSING that technology in the name of CAPITALISTIC PIGS.
Man, you really do need a reality check. P2p networks are the world’s best distribution methods. Because of filesharing, people can learn about music they may have never heard about otherwise. If they like it enough, then hey, maybe they’ll donate something so that the artist can keep making that music, or buy a CD, or- even better, since this one is actually a DECENT revenue generator- attend a live show. So in reality it’s the smaller artists, those who don’t get heavily promoted by the RIAA or those who just plain disagree with the evil executives, who benefit the most from p2p, as they build far larger fan bases which CERTAINLY leads to increased income.
But if you want monopolies, just look at the copyright industry. Copyright is BASED on granting monopolies.
By the way, I sincerely apologize if you don’t understand when I speak about the benefits of p2p. I know it must be seriously difficult for someone such as yourself to understand what good could come from the evil, nasty domain of child-raping pirates. So to compensate for the stress it may have placed on your brain, the rest of this post will be in Caveman.
You bad poster. You believe IP. Me not. You believe restricting people. Me not. You believe denying freedom. Me not. This why you lose. This why human rights win.
What happened NeoStyles – no response to my answers in 126 + 131?
@140
tl;dr
Apparently neostyles requires additional planing…
Really? Even those among us who create for the sake of creation, instead of for the sake of making money? Come on, there are more important things than money in the world. I’d have thought you’d known that by now.
Ad hominem number one. Personal attacks get you nowhere.
How about we remove the concept of intellectual property altogether? Ah! Suddenly nobody is taking anyone from anything (not that people do that through filesharing anyway) because ideas no longer belong to people (or in the case of the real world, commercial entities).
Also, you’re swearing again. Didn’t your mother ever tell you that when you swear online, you fail?
You should, like… get in a time machine and go back to the 15th century. It’s where you belong. If a law is unjust, it need not be followed. You’re acting like laws are set in stone and must always be followed regardless of their nature. I hope you enjoy being a slave all your life.
Filesharing isn’t theft. How many times do I need to point this out? Also, ad hominem number two. Keep it up- you’re doing a wonderful job of discrediting yourself.
Strike three! You’re out. GTFO.
@101 I love the smell of stupidity, it is so funny…
If you think that $80,000 per song is justice, you probably think that killing someone for a $100 robbery is also justice.
Let’s go further. She downloaded 24 songs. How many dollars is the actual damage? Exactly equal to zero.
Concert ticket $100.
CD with one good song $19.99.
Singing in the shower priceless. (Make sure it’s original)
Boycott the bastards!
…..not going to tell you publicly but there’s a new way to trade and share.
GUESS the riaa will be pulling hair out figuring how
HAHA sucks to be them
Show me a musician who HASN’T made enough money already to be comfortable downing the RIAA. Sure Moby and Radiohead can speak out. They’ve already made tons of money.
I think some of you mis-using capitalism.
Copyrights, patents, and all other forms of Intellectual Property are government issued licenses. No one ‘owns’ a song or invention — creators are only given temporary monopolies over them to encourage more creation. How long a period of monopoly to give (if any) is 100% up to the people of that society to decide.
Personally, I think copyrights and patents have outgrown their usefulness.
isn’t it a bit hypocritical of Moby since his label is actually a member of the RIAA?
Whether you’re an economist, or a sociologist, or an engineer, you’ll eventually agree that the current mode of distribution is very outdated and inefficient.
The economist will see the current system as inefficient because it does not maximize the use of the available resources, but tries to increase profits without maximizing utility.
The sociologist will see the current system as inefficient because it is not convenient, and takes longer for the person to acquire the product.
The engineer will see the current system as inefficient because it takes a lot of processes to produce the final product.
@trollstyles, amoral MAFIAA knob polisher
“No one wants to pay for anything.”
For the millionth time, you brainless little choad, filesharers buy *more* content than the average consumer.
But I know, I know. That fact threatens to pop the delusional, reality-proof bubble you live in, so you have to carefully ignore it.
Much like the fact that 2008 was the most profitable year EVER for the movie industry, which singlehandedly debunks the idea that P2P is killing the industry. That’s another fact you have to carefully ignore.
Actually, if I had to list all the facts you carefully ignore, I’d be here all night. And morning. Hell, I’d be sitting here typing through the entire week.
@trollstyles, amoral MAFIAA knob polisher
“America has freedom of speech. We don’t jail people for speaking their mind. ”
Lying isn’t protected by freedom of speech. Pay attention, because that concerns you. Since rather than speak your mind, you lie through your teeth for a living.
@trollstyles, amoral MAFIAA knob polisher
“No one wants to pay for anything.”
For the millionth time, you brainless little choad, filesharers buy *more* content than the average consumer.
But I know, I know. That fact threatens to pop the delusional, reality-proof bubble you live in, so you have to carefully ignore it.
Much like the fact that 2008 was the most profitable year EVER for the movie industry, which singlehandedly debunks the idea that P2P is killing the industry. That’s another fact you have to carefully ignore.
Actually, if I had to list all the facts you carefully ignore, I’d be here all night. And morning. Hell, I’d be sitting here typing through the entire week.
@trollstyles, amoral MAFIAA knob polisher
“4. The RIAA isn’t a terrorist organization. Go learn about what terrorism is. Your ignorance is unbelievable.”
The irony of claiming that the RIAA isn’t a terrorist organization and then calling somebody *else* ignoring is hilarious. The RIAA is a terrorist organization by *definition*. If you think otherwise, then you have absolutely no clue whatsoever what a ‘terrorist’ is, and you need to crack open a dictionary ASAP.
Since you’re unlikely to own a dictionary or even know where to find one, however, I’ll just copy & paste it for you.
ter?ror?ist??[ter-er-ist]
–noun
1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.
3. (formerly) a member of a political group in Russia aiming at the demoralization of the government by terror.
4. an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.
–adjective
5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of terrorism or terrorists: terrorist tactics.
Before you answer, “BUT TERORIZMZ R VIOLENT LOL!!”, violence isn’t a prerequisite for terrorist activity. I.e, cyber terrorism, environmental terrorism, economic terrorism.
@trollstyles, amoral MAFIAA knob polisher
“What’s your moral basis, for theft, genius?”
What’s your moral basis for lying that filesharing is theft, Mr. Iraqi… Whoops, sorry… Mr. RIAA Information Minister?
@self
Damn, little copy & paste accident there :(
Oh well, since you repeat lies ad nauseam, I guess it doesn’t really hurt to accidently repeat the truth twice in my comment :D
That’s fucked up. Might as well sue my friend and I for letting each other borrow CD’s.
I predict hackers and moles join RIAA and go for operation “Disband” from within the organization.
@138 : I have tried to get you to explain why you think you have a god given right to steal other people’s work. You ignored my question and continued to reaffirm that you did. Only an idiot would think that the world revolves around them and that they are entitled to steal other people’s things.
//::::::::::::::::::::::::::://
@140You are an unapologetic thief. Someone who’s actions give “self centered” a new meaning. Who are you to tell other people about right and wrong. How any one could think that stealing is right and paying for things like a decent person is beyond me, but then again, someone who has made stealing their way of getting things, would probably grow emotionally attached to it and their first impulse would be to try and defend against it.
Never the less, I pride myself in being an open minded, so let me run down your responses..
I was responding directly to Moby’s proposal for fixing piracy. As many pirate recommend, he went with “change the business model.” This is impossibly stupid.
Now here we are. What do you suggest? How should we compensate the artist? Yes, that’s right compensation matters. You’re not the center of the world.
The average cost of a CD is is $16. I hate to disappoint you but in today’s world, where the internet has produced some of the lazies, self satisfied people imaginable, ANY price will be considered too much. As for DRM, you are confusing cause with effect. DRM is an effect of piracy. When pirates grow up, and start accepting responsiblity for their actions instead of always shifting the blame elsewhere, they are going to realize that THEY caused DRM and that the music industry has a right to protect what is theirs.
Im not bullying people. Im dismantling their self centered notions. As for the RIAA and their so called, bullying, well pirates have gotten so used to the lack of legal and moral accountability, that it’s hardly surprising that any attempt to remind them of the law is considered bullying.
In fact, calling legal reprisals “bullying” just seems like cheap smear tactic. Pirates are nothing more than criminals who are bitterly realizing that all their negligence and tongue in cheak antics are finally catching up with them now. Im sure people who get caught for things like bank robbery and credit card would also call the law “bullying” as well.
@150 : You sound like another person who doesn’t like being told they have to pay for things and now that they are being told so by the law, they are throwing a temper tantrum.
The fact that you repeatedly stoop to personal insults is so telling. If you actually had confidence in your own position, you wouldn’t have to resort to name calling.
Read these two
http://www.keytlaw.com/Copyrights/top10myths.htm#public%20domain
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
The law makes it very clear that what you are doing is stealing, whether you like it or not.
I’m going to go purchase my first Moby record.
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9172/1245456677307.jpg
Well, this is trully the end of my business with these crooks. I barely listen to their junk anyway. I seriously doubt RIAA knows what music is; seems they’re better in robbing mothers, students, and kids. $2M for $24? Now THAT is theft!!
You don’t feed a dog that bites your hand. And I bet when their pockets dry out they’ll come crying for a bailout, blaming public for downloading them dry!
can you guys stop talking about the 10 million garbage…its obviously a typo that should say over 100 million not 10 million
@G. Karber
Agreed.
http://freejammie.freeforums.org/
You know what, I don’t have a lot of extra money in these times but I’m still going to send Jammie $10, this judgment is complete BS. I’m from Minnesota and am ashamed of the sentence handed down by the jury of my peers.
If I was charged 80,000 per song=120GB/4MB*$80,000=$240,000,000 are you fucking kidding me. Fuck all of you. Maybe this is how our gov is going to solve the money crisis by making unemployed people or single mothers recoup the losses to the economy. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Here is the 24 songs she was sued for.
Currently the Worlds most expenive album.
Yours free for the download..
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4962775/
Enjoy!
Bye Bye to the RIAA !
For those saying it needs to be criminalised, and it’s stealing, we did cover this a few months back, saying we wish it would be treated in such a way – http://torrentfreak.com/is-it-time-to-make-file-sharing-a-criminal-offense-080912/
$ python
Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type “help”, “copyright”, “credits” or “license” for more information.
>>> 30000*3500
105000000
>>>
PYTHON HAS SPOKEN!
How about all of those who are saying that it’s 10mil go get some sleep? =)
On topic: RIAA should be disbanded. Until Obama is president, it is not going to happen however.
I will buy Moby music from now on… for me he is the best musician in the whole world. RIAA is the modern day Satan.
Here’s my deal:
After reading and reading about all of this (and being an unknown artist with no money trying to figure out how to be a known artist with money) the thing that seems to ring the truest to me is that, whether anyone likes it or not (and regardless of where you stand on the moral compass), there just isn’t a way to control who has copies of what anymore. The internet has made it that way and that, as they say, is that.
My problem, however, is that I’m not seeing a decent way to discover new, great artists. Despite all their bullshit, record labels had this going for them: they had the money and the resources to weed through everybody out there, put out the best acts’ music with decent production values and make sure that you at least saw a poster of their record cover somewhere.
And, yes, I knoooooow they’ve put out loads and loads of shit. But they’ve also put out piles of wonderful stuff: David Bowie, Rolling Stones, Prince, Stevie Wonder, etc.
If they die, I’m suddenly forced to muck through hours and hours of shitty Myspace pages, awful songs, mediocre bands, crappy production values and so on just to find something worthwhile. And I feel like 99% of the stuff I hear that I DO like is associated with a label, even if I find them by alternative methods.
If there’s a killer band from Nowhere, Nebraska–chances are I’m not gonna hear about them in New York, unless I chance upon some review in the Nowhere Nebraska Times. Record labels fixed this with advertising and distribution–which the unknown band in Nowhere doesn’t have. How am I supposed to find out about them without digging through all of the disappointing crap on CDBaby?
I’m not trying to be petulant–I’m just identifying a way that big business fixes a problem for people who don’t want to spend their lives digging through teenagers’ garage bands and indie drudgery to find the next Beck or White Stripes.
I know a band in New York (Julius C for those who are interested–look them up) who put out their own records, do their own marketing, sell-out their shows and have kicked ass at major battles-of-the-bands like Emergenza. Have YOU heard of them? I hope so. But if you haven’t, then here’s a case in point.
Again, I’m not saying I like much of anything about the way record labels do business. I’m just pointing out that, as they become obsolete, I’m beginning to feel the biting absence of a really great alternative.
Thoughts?
P.S.: Kudos to the chaps (and chap-ettes) on here who are willing to have levelheaded discussions about things.
30 000 * 1 500$ = 105 000 000
Calculated with Python 2.6
On topic: RIAA will never get disbanded while Obama is president.
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“I have tried to get you to explain why you think you have a god given right to steal other people’s work.”
I have tried to get you to explain how filesharing can somehow be stealing despite the fact that it involves no theft whatsoever.
Of course, I remain unsurprised when you fail to explain it, because A, it’s impossible, B, it’s a paradox(see A), and C, you don’t say filesharing is theft because you’re ignorant, you say filesharing is theft because you’re a MAFIAA shill who would claim that up is down if you were told you.
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“You are an unapologetic thief.”
You’re unapologetic liar.
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“Pirates are nothing more than criminals”
See? You just lied right there, and there’s no apology in sight. Copyright infringement is a civil offense, not criminal.
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“The fact that you repeatedly stoop to personal insults is so telling. If you actually had confidence in your own position, you wouldn’t have to resort to name calling.”
LOL
You dodged every single point I made and then changed the subject, hiding behind the the old, tired strawman “IF YOU HAS A POINT U WULDNT B NAMECAELLING!!”.
That’s very telling indeed. It says that you can’t refute anything I said. Infact… Let me prove it.
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“Read these two
http://www.keytlaw.com/Copyrights/top10myths.htm#public%20domain
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
The law makes it very clear that what you are doing is stealing, whether you like it or not.”
Neither link claims that filesharing is stealing. You can’t refute the reality that P2P isn’t theft, so you claimed that it was and then copy & pasted two links at random to back up your “point”, hoping that nobody would actually click on them and see that they do not, infact, back up your “point” at all. You tried to create the appearance of fact.
Now here’s a real fact for you. The law makes it crystal clear that copyright infringement is just that; copyright infringement. Not stealing. And certainly not a criminal offense.
So, are you going to apologise for lying? That would be nice. But I won’t hold my breathe.
By the way, it isn’t slander if it’s true. So when I call you a brainless little choad, I’m not namecalling. I’m being accurate :D
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“I have tried to get you to explain why you think you have a god given right to steal other people’s work.”
I have tried to get you to explain how filesharing can somehow be stealing despite the fact that it involves no theft whatsoever.
Of course, I remain unsurprised when you fail to explain it, because A, it’s impossible, B, it’s a paradox(see A), and C, you don’t say filesharing is theft because you’re ignorant, you say filesharing is theft because you’re a MAFIAA shill who would claim that up is down if you were told you.
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“You are an unapologetic thief.”
You’re unapologetic liar.
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“Pirates are nothing more than criminals”
See? You just lied right there, and there’s no apology in sight. Copyright infringement is a civil offense, not criminal.
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“The fact that you repeatedly stoop to personal insults is so telling. If you actually had confidence in your own position, you wouldn’t have to resort to name calling.”
LOL
You dodged every single point I made and then changed the subject, hiding behind the the old, tired strawman “IF YOU HAS A POINT U WULDNT B NAMECAELLING!!”.
That’s very telling indeed. It says that you can’t refute anything I said. Infact… Let me prove it.
@trollstyles, MAFIAA whore
“Read these two
(snip)
The law makes it very clear that what you are doing is stealing, whether you like it or not.”
Neither link claims that filesharing is stealing. You can’t refute the reality that P2P isn’t theft, so you claimed that it was and then copy & pasted two links at random to back up your “point”, hoping that nobody would actually click on them and see that they do not, infact, back up your “point” at all. You tried to create the appearance of fact.
Now here’s a real fact for you. The law makes it crystal clear that copyright infringement is just that; copyright infringement. Not stealing. And certainly not a criminal offense.
So, are you going to apologise for lying? That would be nice. But I won’t hold my breathe.
By the way, it isn’t slander if it’s true. So when I call you a brainless little choad, I’m not namecalling. I’m being accurate :D
Excellent, finally the mainstream is starting to say what the rest of have been saying for years….
2010 FTW
Try reading this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/05/ben-goldacre-bad-science-music-downloads
@neostyles
before I completely and utterly dismantle your argument (to save 4nd some work, all the effort he’s put into doing so recently, and put my own voice into things), i just wanna point something out.
filesharing = sharing files.
Piracy = STEALIN’ STUFF, RAPING, AND PILLAGING ON THE HIGH SEAS. with eyepatches. and parrots.
slight difference
uh, because it would soon be bankrupt and then all those artists would have to go back to day jobs which would entail not producing anywhere near as much art much less to the same degree of quality since the time to practice their craft would be greatly reduced.
LOL!
no it’s not. why are you trying to play basement economist when you know so little? it’s absolutely hilarious!
here’s the legal definition of PROPERTY: “Not only money and other tangible things of value, but also includes any intangible right considered as a source or element of income or wealth.”
notice it said nothing of “ideas” that is because the topic of ideas has nothing to do with copyright and is completely irrelevant to this conversation. more on that later…
money itself isn’t even scarce. with the right equipment you can make an infinite supply of money. just ask north korea! they’ve been printing PERFECT united states tender for years. so have a lot of other nations. so have a lot of common thieves, oh i’m sorry, i mean “copiers”. that’s all counterfeiting money is, copying. why is it bad? because it devalues real money? WELL IT’S OUR NATURAL RIGHT TO COUNTERFEIT MONEY SO SUCK IT!
lololol
propaganda alert! buzz word alert! copyright does not protect “ideas” you neanderthal, it protects the specific execution of an idea. “art” and “idea” are two different words that mean entirely different things FOR A REASON. a film is no more an “idea” then you are an “atom”. your persistence with this FUD is commendable in a dumb ox sort of way. why don’t you stop pretending to be smarter than you are and go help plow a field somewhere?
oh boo hoo you little parasite. move to china with all the other like-minded thieves. to them (and apparently you) R&D stands for nothing more than “receive and duplicate”. why the hell SHOULD you be able to do that? why should YOU profit from another person’s innovation at their expense? where is the morality in that?
it has a very obvious moral basis: those who innovate should prosper from their innovations just as those who work should prosper from their labor. the labor of the mind is no less of an exertion than of the body and should not be the ugly, abused stepchild to widget makers that you obviously want it to be. man is distinct from animals in his ability to think. the great thinkers and people who promote that ability should be rewarded in a just society. copyright is moral. it is you who are immoral and incredibly selfish to think everyone’s hard work should be your gain and yours for the taking. instead of buying steel to rip off someone else’s accomplishment, your natural inclination should be to buy steel to make a much better product and compete with them, not just make a cheaper product since you have no initial investment to recoup — it really speaks volumes to your character.
as for “slavery” that sounds exactly like what you want to do with content creators…make them slaves to the communist masses who by birthright, natural right, and god’s right are apparently OWED an infinite supply of hundred million dollar pharmaceuticals and entertainment FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
“No good case exists for the inequality of real and intellectual property, because no good case can exist for treating with special disfavor the work of the spirit and the mind.”
-mark helprin
The only ipod killer is itunes killing the riaa.
All the better though riaa had every opportunity of doing what itunes does they blew it.
Cant put the cork back now. So they screw/sue/fine those that would prob never buy there overpriced p.o.s. Before or after being dragged to court.
@177
Amen.
It’s correct to say $100 million = more than $10 million
But hey so is it more than $0.99. You’re putting $10 million as a wrong interpretation of a nicer figure
Why not put it less than a 1000 million?
“”I’m so sorry that any music fan anywhere is ever made to feel bad for making the effort to listen to music,” Moby writes, ending his blog post with some solid advice for the record labels that pump millions of dollars into the non-profit organization. “The RIAA needs to be disbanded,” he writes.” … get enough angry protesters, and that’s exactly what’ll become of the end result …
I live in Australia and everyone hear pirates anything they want to, thought the RIAA fucks are trying put pressure on our government just like they are pressuring the new zealand government.
damn RIAA WHEN WILL YOU LEARN THE RIGHT TO PIRACY IS A HUMAN RIGHT, why are you so damn fascist.
on the plus side… ahaha not long to go now…the bankruptcy train is coming and the riaa is tied to the tracks
The RIAA, with the leading member being SONY CORP bribed every senator and every member of the House that it could to force it’s will on people in the USA and then took it worldwide.
The RIAA takes advantage of any country that has any treaty with the USA then loses it own freedoms to the terrorists in Washington DC.
The RIAA has, in the past said, when they can’t find the artist then oh well they (RIAA) simply have to keep the money.
A worldwide boycott of BlueRay would be helpful and the boycott of all Sony Products which include mp3 players, cds, music cds, tv’s, stereos, and a whole long line.
Next time a new movie opens…skip it and do something else. Save your money do feed the evil that has spread worldwide.
They may own it…but they can keep it. Their own relatives or employees can buy the material that the USA had deemed itself in charge of.
YAY I get to pwn this time. Although it’s gonna kinda suck. But… it’ll still be awesome, so.
@neostyles:
Umm… it looks like that is exactly what you are doing with your VERY FIRST statement. And with every one of your posts, like, ever. Ethics are subjective. Basic premise of don’t-be-a-dick-ery. But hey, who’s counting?
I recognize that compensation matters. I also recognize that with the current system, the artist is getting basically NOTHING. My suggestion, with my limited knowledge of business (i’m a revolutionary-type chick — business is for the soulless): something with a more direct connection to the artist. It’s actually getting a lot easier to put out things (even i’ve considered it), so promotions is the only big financial hurdle to a newcomer, and that can be solved; going out, playing locally, etc. but… yeah. There are other possibilities and I suggest we switch to those — more focus on the individual, going through corporations just hands your money up to the big fatcat greedy capitalist bastards.
The weird thing here is that you’re basically smearing/etc every filesharer everywhere with your slandering and insistance on terms such as piracy and theft when these are NOT AT ALL THE CASE. as MANY have pointed out, you cannot “steal” something when there’s an infinite supply of it — what are you depriving people of? The Internet has CHANGED things. Get with the times, man. Physical media is obsolete, and legislation needs HUGE overhaul.
not necessarily…there are alternative economic theories, y’know. But I get it — in the mainstream world, people pay for things and get something in return. And, unfortunately, while sticking to what we have now, I must agree — but I do NOT agree with my money going solely to greedy capitalists and NOT to the person it’s SUPPOSED to compensate. (wow, capitals. sorry guys.) Currently, all that’s available TO us is optional, donation. But if we took out the big companies… well, hey. I really don’t see anything bad about that.
yes. Our penal system needs major reform — but that’s a subject for another place.
My main issue here… the punishment is OD. You CANNOT expect me to keep a straight face (really a non-enraged-homocidal-RAWR one) when I am told (passive voice! avoids blame) of the atrocious fines that people are being forced to pay. FFS, industry — your losses are not that huge. The biggest issue. You do NOT need to be chasing around people and RUINING THEIR LIVES (this money is supposed to go to USEFUL stuff, like survival, and college [although why we must pay so much for that remains a mystery to me; again, subject for elsewhere], goddamnit.) so you can afford another set of solid-gold ferraris and… yeah. Lost train of thought. Agh. But yeah, overreporting losses and suing children and others for HUGE sums of money when YOU DON’T NEED IT = bad.
i repeat: we are not on boats sailin’ the seven seas looking for wenches and booty and such to plunder. that’d be cool, but. no. And what low profits? As I said earlier. I would LOVE to see the RIAA-peeps get a taste of what capitalism REALLY is — let THEM wallow in poverty and SEE HOW IT FEELS. Ass-raping financial horror. Badstuffs, guys.
But WHY? Do you QUESTION THINGS? Independent thinking: not just for five year-olds anymore!
I didn’t have anything overwhelming to say to this paragraph, but you’re ridiculous. But yeah, the current copyright/patent/etc system (my terminology is a little fuzzy at 3:30 in the morning, rawr) is what discourages progress. When people have an idea now, they consider: what is the commercial value of this? That isn’t how it should be. Sure, money’s great (in this economy. I have STRONG negative feelings about the concept of money at ALL but let’s keep it simple for you), but… your sole concern should not be focused on turning a profit. The betterment of mankind is the job of all of us. Not just the betterment of our salary.
Generalization is logical fallacy. If the big words were too much: what you say is dumb. You are generalizing about the concept of economies — not ALL THEORIES OUT THERE require you to pay — but I’ll be nice since that’s what it seems from mainstream thought (god bless not-having-access-to-alternatives amirite?). You are also generalizing about filesharers. Greed is the domain of those who claim loss in order to garner sympathy from an unsuspecting (read: stupid) public in order to just fatten themselves up more. That fattening will, though, inevitably lead to a slaughter — the takedown of the current system to pave way for a new era of sharing and access to information and alternative thought. I do like my imagery at 3AM.
More generalization, sigh. You should really find something else to do. Anyway… I would be glad to compensate — if my money went STRAIGHT TO THE ARTIST as a thanks for all the work they have done to bring me this artistic wonder, a revolution of its own, in innovation and simple beauty. But… the capitalist system insists that instead of to whom I intend to give that money… it goes to the industry. And I do not appreciate this. If you want the ones who are cheating artists out of their money, look no further than the RIAA and really all big corporations and supporters of the capitalist system.
Because THEY DON’T GET THE MONEY THEY DESERVE BY GOING THROUGH THE CORPORATIONS. I wonder how many times I’ve said this so far. Hm. Maybe repetitive, but powerful. Whatev.
RAWRGH RAGE.
Capitalism IN AND OF ITSELF ENCOURAGES MONOPOLIES. Unchecked growth, no government regulation whatsoever. That is how a monopoly is formed. I thought we learned this 70-odd years ago?
In summation, wow, I am tired. So this is probably not my best work. But it is at least something. I feel a contribution, no matter how sleepy I am when writing it or how infused it is with my personality, detracting from a decent argument (I’m too girly to be STRONG AND FIRM on my points)… is good. Yeah. I can’t end this well. Uhm.
I win?
it should be do not feed the evil that has spread world wide
Wow, that was way longer than I thought… I’m so proud of myself!
Moby is 100 percent correct.
The RIAA should be disbanded.
Governments that put the total
screaming screws to their own people are destined to fail … the “God Complex” shines thru.
There is a difference between “freedom” as a word to go to war on while reality is that your own people can be unemployed, no medical and just flat out expected to “die” and on top of that have the RIAA to deal with.
WTG katrizzle.
One must remember under Capitalism in our present day “free market economy” that the individual finds it harder and harder to make a living. Making less than a living by the rules of those who make it 32 hour week so you do not qualify for benefits such as health care is a inhumane approach to population such as done in the USA.
Slaves, under the worst of conditions, still had a cabin, corn meal, and doctors care (had to keep slaves healthy enough to produc).
Our so call free market conditions are rife with the pollution of bribes given elected political officals to do the job they already have a salary set.
Court sanctioned abuse of impossible conditions such as awarded the RIAA over cruel and unusual punishment of Jammie Thomas is consistant with the policy of Washington DC, where our Constitution allows the citizens to completely change the corrupt government …government now identifies their own citizens as low-level terrorists. Washington DC has removed itself from the very foundation that it is the people that grant government it’s powers.
The direction events are going now does not spell an upward situation for people, it is rather the other direction.
@neostyles
Okay, first: Wth did you do with your quote tags? Your post is seriously messed up…
Also, when I originally wrote this, it was a mile long and replying to practically every other sentence you posted. However, it ended up being too large to be practical, so I cut it down to what I believe are the most important parts.
Anyway.
Interesting considering that’s exactly what you’ve been doing in every single one of your posts on this site… insisting that filesharing is a crime and wrong and immoral. Sooooo I think the question is, who are you to tell other people about right and wrong?
That’s bullying to me. What has any p2per done to you? You’re forcing your way into their lives, calling them thieves, generalizing every filesharer as such (regardless of whether they actually share material illegally) and been generally hostile to everyone on TF who disagrees with you. All for a cause that is unjust and, frankly, misguided. Intellectual property is a fallacy.
I have to disagree. One, you’re generalizing/stereotyping again. Two, you’re incorporating the law and morality into the same concept. This is fallacious because morality is not based on a single entity but varies from person to person. Some people think it’s okay to fileshare (me), whereas others don’t (you). Some people think the laws governing copyright are obsolete and need changing to reflect the new information era we live in (me) and some people think that the defense of intellectual property is paramount and that the law is absolute (you). I think I’ve made it clear in my previous posts in response to you that I am standing on a decently sized pile of moral accountability when I share files. So basically I must say: Please don’t generalize.
More generalizing… oh, plus, filesharing is a civil case, not a criminal case. Ergo, filesharing != crime.
Not really. I’m not. If the RIAA tells me to pay them money I don’t owe them, I tell them to go to hell.
Frozen food is a physical, tangible commodity. Digital files are not. Frozen food is worth something because it has a limited supply. The same does not apply to digital files.
They call it that because they want all the profits they can get and so they will go to any lengths that they think they can get away with to squeeze those profits out of the world’s public.
What all-time low profits? Once again I cite the MPAA, with its record profits from 2008. Do you mean the recording industry? Sure, you could claim that their CD sales are dropping due to piracy. I say two things: One, correlation does not imply causation; two, maybe there’s another reason why people are buying fewer CDs? For example, take a look at how iTunes and other online music stores have popped up over the past decade. Might their success have had something to do with declining CD sales?
No… it’s… not. It’s civil, not criminal. You cannot call filesharing (of /anything/ except for, like, child porn) a crime without intentionally applying misleading labels to copyright infringers. Also, would you tell that to the governments and people of countries in which downloading for personal user is legal? If so, you’re basically trying to push the US’s way of doing things onto other countries, and they have the right to do things the way they want. Leave them alone, they aren’t hurting anyone.
‘Kay, I’m going to go ahead and ask you to back that up. Show me hard data that proves that creation is completely dead. Show me that even the free software movement, which is basically noncommercial, is also completely dead. I will go ahead and remind you of NiN and Radiohead being just two of the artists that have embraced filesharing. They don’t seem to be out on the streets. And that’s not to speak of the other industries than music.
M’kay. Let’s imagine that I saw someone about to be eaten by a cougar, and I shot the cougar and killed it. That person would undoubtedly be grateful for saving his life. However, what if I turned to him and demanded payment for my services? How happy would he be with me then? Case in point: A world where everything is for sale, and everything (even human life) has a monetary value is an extremely sad world and one I do not want to live in. For with that sort of addiction to wealth comes the extinction of any sense of justice we as a people ever had.
Even more generalization. I may begin completely disregarding statements you make that generalize ‘pirates’ because they do absolutely nothing for your credibility.
How is this possible? Because of p2p, far more people will know about the smaller artists, and therefore their number of album sales will increase. After all, according to studies, filesharers do tend to buy more than the average consumer, supporting the creators they actually want to support. It’s not all about “gimme gimme gimme,” as you seem to believe.
This is the last statement of yours involving unfair generalization that I’m ever going to acknowledge. I’m tired of you making these attacks against people. I’m also tired of you spreading what amounts to lies: Can you PROVE that “artists are no longer rewarded for their talent?” Actually, can you prove that artists were ever rewarded in the first place? Bands don’t get their big bucks from CD sales, because of the Rich Idiots Abusing Artists; live shows are the biggest revenue generator, and you can go right ahead and try to tell me how p2p hurts live shows. You can’t pirate a live show, and if you have a bigger fanbase (due to p2p), more people will show up.
Also, one more time: You’re trying to tell people what is right. :(
Read ‘Atlas Shrugged’ by Ayn Rand for an interesting angle on capitalism.
@ 15
Ugh, It’s called savage capitalism not socialism…
Actually in the case of Jammie Thomas, what the court decision has directed is that human life (hers) is worthless compared to 24 songs.
The RIAA’s is not such as to warn, but rather devalue human beings.
Again, as punitive economic slave masters … Jammie Thomas has had the manipulation of so called judicial system has had the court declare her own personal life worth LESS than 24 songs.
In a country that declares that it is Christian, especially to go fight for The Lord, it lets humans be degraded daily.
Don’t worry bout the trolls peeps, they’ll never understand.
bye bye neostyles…
Read article about women sued for 1.92 million over 24 songs.http://torrentfreak.com/woman-hit-with-192-million-fine-in-riaa-case-090619/comment-page-14/#comment-571820 Let My Opiniion Be heard here to!
I would start going balistic, mass killing spree against people who did this to me (like Jammie Thomas-Rasset) then commit suicide making it publicly known why I did this. If this is acceptable under the law, I honostly don’t want to live in this world. I’m downloading songs and movies you F*ers, I don’t care. Come after me, I DON”T CARE!!!
Tried to link article, ahh, its just a few down form this one on main page didn’t work.
I will continue to pirate until I die, Forever and ever. This is my testemoy6 to all you corperate people I am pirating and will never stop!!!!
The only thing i would use p2p is for iso of linux.
however, having purchased content for decades … it is distasteful to purchase anything the RIAA or MPAA thinks belongs to them.
It is nice to keep my coin for other things that are essential.
If TF truly doesn’t tolerate trolls (as stated in a small paragraph below the “Respond” box) shouldn’t they have already banned neostyles and ReasonedMind? I guess that would be impossible unless they have a static IP address..right? -isn’t very computer literate-
Haha, RIAA really arnt liked by many people. so 105 million / 10 million either way is pathetic. i should go in this business – a quick money making scheme. Fuck you RIAA!
Let me settle this for once and for all…
30 000 x 3 500 = 10 000 000
= 10 Million.
Here is how you do it…
Take the 0s from the two multipliers.
30 000 x 3 500 = 000000 (Six 0s)
You are now left with: 3 x 3 5.
Now what you do is times the first multiplier by the 1st number on the 1st multiplier, so you get:
3 x 3 = 9
Then take away the 1st number from the 2nd number in the 2nd multiplier:
5 – 3 = 2
Now times the 1st multiplier by the number you got when you took away:
3 x 2 = 6
Now take away that number by the 2nd number on the 2nd multiplier:
6 – 5 = 1
Final step, add the previous number and the number you got when you multiplied the 1st multiplier and the 1st number on the 2nd multiplier, and the 0s and you get:
9 + 1 = 10 & 000000
= 10 000 000
= 10 Million.
May this be a lesson learned to all you tards out there.
i wanna say big thank you to poster: “188 Jun 21, 2009 at 09:47 by 4nd”. ive read it all, and there is nothing to add.thank you.
for all the trolls, i wanna share new sharing hymn with you:
enjoy..
“We Are All Made Of Stars”
Growing in numbers
Growing in speed
Can’t fight the future
Can’t fight what I see
People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
‘Cause we are all made of stars
Efforts of lovers
Left in my mind
I sing in the reaches
We’ll see what we find
People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
‘Cause we are all made of stars
People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
‘Cause we are all made of stars
Slow slow slow, come come
Someone come come come
Even love is goin’ ’round
You can’t ignore what is goin’ ’round
Slowly rebuilding
I feel it in me
Growing in numbers
Growing in peace
People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
‘Cause we are all made of stars
People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
‘Cause we are all made of stars
People they come together
(People they come together)
People they fall apart
(People they fall apart)
No one can stop us now
(No one can stop us now)
‘Cause we are all made of stars
(We are all made of stars)
We are all made of stars
People they come together
We are all made of stars
(People they fall apart)
We are all made of stars
(No one can stop us now)
‘Cause we are all made of stars
(We are all made of stars)
198, sharer, thats was beautiful,
you should submit it to the pirate bay, as a poem of rebellion,
‘Copyright = corporation welfare = socialism.’
This one for comment of the month please. :D
Btw, nice one Moby, keep it up! \o/
Agreed! Should have been disbanded YEARS ago. I am personally surprised someone hasnt taken them out yet!
RT
http://www.anon-tools.tk
@196 to: I’m A Maths Teacher
Is this a perfect equation that best describes your retardation?
I hate music.
Much is being made here over the semantic distinction between piracy and stealing, that is, piracy is (a fact we can all agree) a civil infraction at the moment and not yet has it been made criminal. If piracy continues unchecked anyone who is watching this unfold realizes that criminal charges may be next; a higher standard of conviction and life changing punishments. The bottom line is not “you can’t stop us.” The true bottom line is that no government will (ultimately) allow this kind of lawlessness in any country or any domain, on the internet or on the ground. In the big picture, the distinction between the network and IRL is beside the point.
Another fact we can probably agree upon is this:
The lawsuit campaign, DRM, bandwidth throttling, online surveillance, three strikes, every awful thing associated with this mess is a reaction, not an action. No one sought to make the internet a police state before piracy, not industry and certainly not government. The civil disobedience of taking without paying for a product, entertainment merchandise in our case, was the action, and everything else came in response. Not buying was the smart and sensible, legal way to change business methods and models if that was your goal. In this regard, pirates have only themselves to blame. Government, in particular, is trying very hard to leave the network intact and as free as it can possibly be, BUT, within the historical confines of law abidance. That’s the true bottom line here. They have no other realistic choice. If you see a realistic and just path forward for all involved, articulate it. No one has found it yet.
And perhaps one more fact: The size of piracy may grow or diminish with time, but it seems historically very likely that government will not be intimidated into sacrificing their entertainment industries to a new trend of pilfering. On the face of it, that just seems very unrealistic. And if you can agree with that–coupled with the likelihood that at least a hard core band of pirates will move to VPN and encryption and continue taking goods (more properly for sale but at no payment), it’s logical that law enforcement will lift its game and government will pass new laws to help, laws that better reflect the new reality of our digital world and the less-new reality that some people will always break the law, especially if they find something in it for themselves.
So it will be cat and mouse, just as it is in other areas like shoplifting, speeding on the highway, income tax evasion and so on.
The notions of “capitalistic revolution”, “freedom of speech”, “I OWN that music because I paid for it” …….that’s all nonsense and a waste of time and electrons in light of how things really are. If you think there is more honor in being a mouse who by definition must sneak around while breaking laws, take your best shot I suppose. But it’s pointless to try to ally pilfering product with civil rights or human rights or freedom of speech. The landscape is littered with the Daniel Doves and the Jammie Thomas’s and Tenenbaum will be next; punitive actions are really only just now getting started in earnest. There will be as much punishment ahead as piracy to curtail. Is that not a reasonable projection?
So instead of arguing theory, why not build a good case why the work of one particular industry (and so far only one) SHOULD be demonetized and decoupled from long standing purchase and licensing agreements. If you are Communist, that might be your basis. If you really do see merchandise as mere “zero’s and one’s” with no other intrinsic value and therefore not worthy of sale or license, explain why, because more and more will be digitized in our future. If you really believe artistic creation is unworthy and in fact songs or movies or books or games should not be paid for, offer a good and workable solution how their creators can earn a living. (Those who say “touring and tee shirts” don’t understand the financial mechanics of a tour and blanket licensing is radically unfair to everyone who does NOT pirate, a resounding global majority.) It is not inconsequential that two of Jammies jurors were college students, and all verdicts were unanimous. The reality check here, I think, is in understanding that the majority sees online lawbreaking as just that and Jammies jury reflected this fact of life.)
But if you really and truly believe that you are all “made of stars” and entitled to this, and “human rights/you can’t stop us” becomes your bottom line, don’t be surprised as the years unfold and government and law enforcement the world over shows time and again who is really in charge. It has ever been so, and going digital will not change this, nor undermine capitalism, or organized society, or the basic fairness of purchase for product or the ultimate rule of law. The Pirate Bay’s seat in the EU legislature is the only realistic way forward but if they fail to gather a majority or consensus, (and for myself I truly doubt they will) pirates will continue to pilfer and will have to accept that law breaking has consequences. Comparisons to American blacks seeking equality under law just sounds uneducated. Large scale commercial lawbreaking doesn’t gather respect. In fact, it only compels every awful reaction that has come to us since Napster.
What 198 posted is a song from Moby, by the way. Appropriate, don’t you think?
What is wrong with Minnesota? Are those people crazy?
Purchasing electronic copyrighted material and distributing without the copyright owner’s permission is
stealing(this is a moral perception).
I support the RIAA attempts to make people responsible for their actions. I teach my children NOT to distribute songs without permission.
If Moby wants to distribute his music he must buy back the copyright
and post it to a FTP site with a license to distribute without cost.
John Henry: how do you equate capitalism as a “fail” based on this story?
If capitalism is so bad, then why not give away all your worldly possessions? Not sell, give away.
http://www.rabidquill.com/2007/11/frontal-assault-on-freedom-fbi-raids-liberty-dollar/
I recall being pissed at these big record companies when they started producing shit and paying off the radio stations to play nothing but shit. And now they have gone full bore, attacking their customers. Insane.
@203 Jun 21, 2009 at 14:33 by Reasoned Mind:
You assume a lot, first society is a dynamic complex system what you see is the dynamics playing out.
The people will win this and there is some factors to be aware off.
Music and IP are not really products or to be exact they are imaginary products with imaginary boundaries that could and will be violated as they always has been maybe not in public or for financial gain that is the purpose of the law to exclude competition on the commercial front, on the public front we call society those laws never had a chance to be enforced at least not now, governments and business just don’t have the technologies and even if they did it will take a form the will ultimately annoy to say the least the population.
Nobody is stealing or doing nothing morally wrong people are just being people and making what they always did listening to music, watching TV, sharing with one another and commenting and cheering for whom they like and this was even had incentive’s from the industry that saw a chance to make more profits out of it.
Technology will not make easy to control such things, it will be harder and harder to do it with technological advances and history can give a hint of what is to come, like the squatters in the 18 century that won to this day laws that give them the power to take over land that is not well guarded you see it’s not a problem to the government to solve it’s a problem to the business people to do it, if they can’t put fences and guarantee that other people can’t get in they don’t deserve to have it just because they are not competent enough.
The people will not stop doing what they do because it is not a whim, it is a behavior that is what made the human race flourish, we combine resources to achieve greater things, from the advance of technology but of course the people who have interests will fight to the bitter end and will bring a lot of ridiculous laws and they may succeed on letting people out and that is when people will start searching for alternatives and then all those ridiculous laws will be used to let the old out of the playground.
Artists and the entertainment industry don’t stand a chance of wining this, and that is why a say to people.
“Just don’t buy anything from this people if you must download what is theirs but don’t pay it and if you can search for alternatives”
Alternatives for TV:
- Miro
Alternatives for music:
- jamendo
- magnatune
- slicethepie
Alternative for movies:
- Miro
Miro have a selection of channel movies with opensource, fan movies, public domain movies and a lot more.
The industry is in a hard place right now, if they annoy the people they will loose a lot like the music industry that saw their revenue down 50% last year in which piracy cannot be held completely accountable for all that sharp drop but I suspect that the bad PR from the litigation had something to do with that making people stop buying LoL
In a fear years people will be able to set up their own ISP and them more regulation will have to follow.
People should stop stealing the hard work of other people. Piracy is stealing. Period. You would not like it if somebody stole your car. Would you?
The time of the “My way or the highway” has passed.
Besides all the jobs the industry claims it produce probably are outsourced anyways LoL
If the guy make and exact copy of my car and drove it away that copy I wouldn’t care :)
The wording is wrong the right wording is:
People should stop promoting those who try to wrong the people, lie to them and try to sell them illusions. Don’t buy anything from this people, promote those who have things in common with you and won’t sue you for trying to listen or watch their work for free. buy stuff that you can afford even a dollar makes a difference remember you are not alone in the world so your dollar with others makes a huge contribution with 10 dollars a month in disposable income you can help 10 people or organizations that you choose and like.
why would anyone with brains use Kazaa. if this case was in 2000 I might understand!
Go Moby :)
RIAA is just being criminals now… destroying housewives and forcing consumers (=sharers) into joining in Free Culture and Pirate political parties if they want to live.
Oh well.
Just another money maker for the lawyers involved.
@Reasoned Mind
Lessee.
And it could just as easily be a shift in the other direction: suddenly piracy is made legal and everyone who does it is hailed as a hero. You aren’t a fortune-teller and don’t know what’s going to happen. Please don’t spread FUD.
Oh hey, you’re trying to tell people what’s right and wrong. Just like neostyles. Well, knock it off. You can’t dictate morality to other people; you have no such right.
One: You can’t say something is a ‘fact’ when it ’seems’ a certain way. Also, THEIR ‘entertainment industries?’ What the deuce, man? How can you imply a connection between, say, the US government and the Rich Idiots Abusing Artists? Oh, yeah, we all know that they basically have control over our laws, but you can’t just outright say it! Come onnnnn.
Also, who’s intimidating who? Also also, are you aware that there /are/ nations out there that allow what you call ‘piracy’? Shame on them for not doing things the American way!
It’s a hell of a lot better than sitting meekly and allowing the RIAA to politely (or not-so-politely) tell you that you are a criminal and that you are guilty until proven innocent. It’s a hell of a lot better than spending too much money on too little entertainment. It’s a hell of a lot better than simply standing around and watching others get bullied into becoming little corporate slaves. When the laws don’t work, you break them.
It’s not just one. Every industry whose products can be distributed online are affected. Music, film, gaming, electronic book, software, and news are those I can think of. And the reason they should be ‘decoupled from long standing purchase and licensing agreements’ is because not everyone in the world is a blind conservative who thinks “Things should never change. If we have done something in this manner for a long time, it should always be done this way.” People change, Reasoned Mind. Technologies change. Times change. Those who can adapt with the flow of time are carried with it, to live, and those who cannot adapt are left behind.
Whoever said that we hate the creators? If we hated the creators, nobody would download the stuff and nobody would buy the stuff. People don’t just mercilessly download out of spite, and those who do are a scant few. Once again I ought to remind you that just because people are downloading does not mean they are not buying.
Nice attempt at intimidation again… but anyway, /you/ don’t be surprised if the world’s people speak out as one against the entertainment industries and change things themselves. Showing who is really in charge, I might add; after all, which is more important, the government, or the public? There, now I have matched your FUD attempt with my own prediction of the future. Let’s wait and see who’s right.
No rule of law is ultimate. Ever. Justice and morality are always above the law. Laws may represent justice, but they are not in themselves justice. When they don’t work, you break them. Also, undermining capitalism would be a really good thing considering the harm capitalism brings the world.
M’kay, so now it’s filesharers’ fault that the entertainment industries are torturing the public. Do you ever consider that they had a choice in how they reacted to Napster? Work with this brand new technology (at the time) and find a way to benefit from it, or to sue ‘em all? The RIAA was not /compelled/ to sue. Stop trying to shift blame for everything onto so-called ‘pirates’ and start thinking about who the actual criminals here are.
You seem to spread FUD a lot. I may consider posting a disclaimer early in each article I see:
Also, a reply to 211 (Mr. McGloo):
Then you teach your children not to share with their friends, their neighbors, their family, with random people. How could you instill this sense into your kids? I mean, this is almost as bad as raising your children Catholic.
Oops I mis-spoke.
Fact is most of the money from itunes goes to the riaa.
Don’t support riaa by paying for itunes.
And anytime a case comes up the riaa have a memory lapse as to all this extra money that comes in.
Two words: Rhapsody / Audacity
@Reasoned Mind, neostyle’s other screen name
“If piracy continues unchecked anyone who is watching this unfold realizes that criminal charges may be next”
Wrong. The MAFIAA’s many attempts to criminalize filesharing have been shot down by every single government it tries to foist them on. Not even the United States, the country where the MAFIAA holds the most influence, tolerates the notion that copyright infringement should be made a criminal offense.
Try again.
@Reasoned Mind, neostyle’s other screen name
“And perhaps one more fact: The size of piracy may grow or diminish with time, but it seems historically very likely that government will not be intimidated into sacrificing their entertainment industries to a new trend of pilfering.”
Why do you keep throwing around the word “historical”? I find it rather puzzling, because *historically*, when a law no longer reflects the will of the people they will no longer obey it regardless of how violently a government attempts to enforce it, and in the end, the law itself invariably ends up being changed to reflect the will of the people.
It doesn’t suprise me that you’re throwing around the word “historical” despite the fact that you’re completely ignorant of actual history, though, considering that you also throw around the word “stealing” despite the fact that you’re completely ignorant of its actual meaning.
Speaking of which, since filesharing isn’t theft, you’ve lied yet again by calling it ‘pilfering’. And, yet again, I don’t see an apology in sight. Gotta love the irony of watching you preach about morals, Mr. Unapologetic Liar.
@Reasoned Mind, neostyle’s other screen name
“There will be as much punishment ahead as piracy to curtail. Is that not a reasonable projection?”
No, you adorable little MAFIAA cockwarmer, that isn’t a reasonable projection. Because if you hadn’t noticed – and you apparently haven’t – IPRED is in shambles, HADOPI lies in ruins, and the 3-strikes regime was stillborn.
Every time the copyright lobby attempts to come down harder on filesharing, their efforts end in failure, each one more spectacular than the last.
But that won’t stop you from spouting “THE WAR AGANZT P2P IZ ONLY JUST BIGINING!!” like a broken record, because your ultimate goal here is one of terrorism; to frighten people away from filesharing by spinning tales that lawsuits are on their way, that the industry is about to crack down on P2P, that we’re all doomed. Close your torrent client and shut down that seedbox, everybody! BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!1!1!!!!!!1
@Reasoned Mind, neostyle’s other screen name
“Comparisons to American blacks seeking equality under law just sounds uneducated.”
Of course, the reality is that comparisons to American blacks seeking equality under the law are very educated indeed. The Civil Rights Movement is a perfect example of a circumstance when the law was wrong and the people breaking it were right.
It’s an important reminder that the law is merely the law, not some paragon of morality and justice. Breaking it doesn’t inherently make you a villian, quite the opposite; there are times when obeying it makes you a villian.
This however gets in the way of your fascist wetdream that the law IS a paragon of morality and justice, that it’s never wrong, and that breaking it does make you the badguy.
So you have to try to dissuade people from making the comparison. You figure that saying it makes them “look uneducated” is just the ticket.
Here’s the thing, though. It isn’t just the ticket. Sadly for you, you can’t make people turn off their brains for fear that you might call them uneducated. Which is pretty ironic, isn’t it?
That what you call “educated” is, in reality, about as uneducated as a bucket of pigshit. Kind of like the way your idea of “reasoned” is unreasoned to the nth degree, and your idea of “mind” is mindless.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. If George Orwell were alive today, he’d punch you in the face for using 1984 as a how-to manual, followed by regret that he’d ever written the thing.
@neostyles
you asked why we should have a right to steel?…
first off no one has proven that it is what it is secondly… the RIAA has violated moral and just laws with their filthy money creating laws that prevent new talent from rising just to save the dieing (their clients) business… there is many other moral violations they have committed… i at this point could careless about any new laws that they campaign the governments of the world to make it steeling i will never buy another record or movie until the final nail is in their coffin and they are 100% bankrupt along with all the companies that support what they do!!!!
i have purchased over 1000 store bought cds and almost as many movies but never will i give the industry another dime i would rather be a thief and steel it as to help to their demise… i have supported them way to much considering how many rights they helped to take away from ppl world wide in the name of profit!!!
the church tried to stop the printing press at one time in history as well these ppl seem to have that very mind set!!! with the printing press you could buy ur own bible and read it on ur own instead of having to go to church to learn about it… God forbid you dont go to church and give tithings.
obviously you could careless of the violations this company has committed against the ppl…much worse then steeling!!!
I don’t like Moby or his music but I do 100% agree with the man’s words!
#211
I agree with you.
Moby if full of crap and is not putting his money where his mouth is.
He’s saying what filesharers want to hear so they will buy more of his music.
He sold his soul to record companies for success and now wants to act righteous. He needs to give all his songs away for free then if he’s so sympathetic,better yet, why not raise money through donation concerts for the woman?
don’t believe moby’s hype.
You guys suck at math
30,000*3,500=105,000,000
@tpb downn11111112
Moby could be a baby-eating cannibal for all it matters. It’s true that the RIAA should be disbanded, and no matter what Moby is or does, it remains true.
funny you should mention irony…
if unauthorized, massive, digital distribution of protected works is not “stealing” then by the same logic it also not “sharing”.
to be more precise, IF digitally procuring an intangible MP3 against the owner’s will is not “stealing” because it’s not physical and the original file remains undiminished then “sharing” an intangible MP3 is not actually “sharing” for the exact same reasons.
so where’s my apology, you unapologetic liar?
there is a HUGE difference between “freedom fighter” and “freetard”.
you, are of course, the latter.
Hey Moby, words are cheap. If you truly believe what you said, then break your contracts with the RIAA and the like.
Moby is totally right. if people like someones music, they should listen to it. ok, artists should get paid for their music, but on the other hand…they like what they do; they wouldnt do it if not. for me i m not paying 1$ for a song. come on! but i like to go to concerts and come on, they are not cheap.
Sharing is not stealing. I can share my buffet with my friend over the à la carte table but this is not stealing
I just purchased 2 of Moby’s “Albums” –
… and just tossed it into the garbage bin ^_^
Hey retarded mind is back peddling his wares, great to see someone is still doing comedy :0)
bye bye riaa, goodnight retarded mind…sleep tight.
2010 FTW
Nice attempt at intimidation again… but anyway, you don’t be surprised if the world’s people speak out as one against the entertainment industries and change things themselves.
@Reasoned Mind/neostyles
“to be more precise, IF digitally procuring an intangible MP3 against the owner’s will is not “stealing” because it’s not physical and the original file remains undiminished then “sharing” an intangible MP3 is not actually “sharing” for the exact same reasons.”
share??[shair] noun, verb, shared, shar?ing.
–noun
1. the full or proper portion or part allotted or belonging to or contributed or owed by an individual or group.
2. one of the equal fractional parts into which the capital stock of a joint-stock company or a corporation is divided.
–verb (used with object)
3. to divide and distribute in shares; apportion.
4. to use, participate in, enjoy, receive, etc., jointly: The two chemists shared the Nobel prize.
Deminishing the original isn’t a prerequisite for sharing. Wow! You learn something new every day!
Although in your case, since your comment makes it clear there’s air where your brain is supposed to be, maybe you don’t :(
@Anonymous
“so where’s my apology, you unapologetic liar?”
Where’s your apology? Alright, here: I am sincerely sorry that you were born retarded.
@Anonymous
“there is a HUGE difference between “freedom fighter” and “freetard”.
you, are of course, the latter.”
Hahahahah.
When confronted with the truth, the only response you’re capable of is hollow mudslinging. You can’t argue with reality, so you just dodge the subject, insult me, and hope that nobody notices. Thanks for proving me correct. It’s rather amusing.
Bah, If she got those songs from Kazaa they are most likely of dubious quality, most probably sampled at 112Khz which is equal to FM quality. How about suing people for recording songs from Radio?
Idiots!
@233
Orly? We share ideas with others. After the process of sharing is complete, both people have the same idea. Ideas are intangible; digital files are intangible. Both can be shared, so why isn’t filesharing actually sharing?
@233
Sharing applies to the intangible. You can share an idea. You cannot feel an idea, but when you share it, both people now have it.
Stealing does not. When you take from an infinite supply… inf – 1 = inf. No one is deprived of everything.
Ergo, your argument is broken. YOU ARE NOT USING LOGIC. LEARN LOGIC. It took me a while to even get what you were saying because of hiding behind bad phrasing and logic and bleh.
yeah.
MP3s are not 1:1 digital reproduction.
Get that straight meatheads before you accuse people of piracy!
nice! you found a dictionary! do a little more perusing in that dictionary and do you know what you might find out?
perhaps that diminishing the original isn’t a prerequisite for stealing either! wow! you learn something new every day!
…although in your case, since your comment makes it clear there’s air where your brain is supposed to be, maybe you don’t :(
in the websters dictionary definition of “steal” there is no mention of the word “deprive” but there is this little quote: “STEAL may apply to any surreptitious taking of something and DIFFERS FROM THE OTHER TERMS BY COMMONLY APPLYING TO INTANGIBLES AS WELL AS MATERIAL THINGS”.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steal
Both can be shared, so why isn’t filesharing actually sharing?
they can be copied, sure. but to call it “sharing” and to equate that to REAL sharing of physical things where the sharer selflessly depletes his own stock for the benefit of someone else is disingenuous at best, and fox-news worthy at worst. coping a million files is not sharing. the “sharer” gives up nothing. hardly a selfless act. hardly equivalent to someone that gives someone else a portion of their food or money.
first of all, films, music, videogames are not “ideas” anymore than you are an “atom”. trying to reduce complex, specific, artistic expressions into a singular “idea” is just another disingenuous code word for pirates use to try and sugar coat their actions…
but anyway, if i’m understanding your correctly, what you’re saying is that, legitimately sharing a finite, tangible resource like food is EXACTLY THE SAME as copying an infinite, intangible resource? these two scenarios are equal in your mind?
lol
what happened to “sharing” in the cost of development for the products you enjoy? is that the one kind of “sharing” you freetards don’t like?
i hope someone “shares” your identity and passwords and banking info. i hope a hacker “shares” admin status of torrent freak and the federal reserve. after all, none of the above are tangible, it’s all just 1’s and 0’s. “ideas” as we all know, WANT to be ripped off.
simple physics.
and tangibly speaking, i hope the next time you bring your car into the mechanic’s, he copies your keys and shares them with random people along with your address and if any of those people should happen to rob you, then of course you couldn’t blame the mechanic. he just pointed them to your house and gave them the keys to get inside against your will, he didn’t actually steal anything himself! only a fascist, orwellian prick would want to lock that poor mechanic up for doing nothing but “showing” the way. he was merely exerting his natural, god given right to share your keys and home address…
and if you happen to do a job that doesn’t involve making a physical PRODUCT then you are doing nothing tangible and your boss should have complete freedom not to pay you for the ethereal, meaningless portions of your workday when, lets face it, you’re not really working at all, more like having fun and being lazy…just selling things or answering phones or punching buttons on a register and you should be happy to do it for free too because otherwise you’re a greedy pig.
if you want a case study of what would happen if the RIAA and major music publishers was to disappear, just analyze the music industry in Malaysia.
endemic pirating had starved the music industry of any significant funds to promote any new and current artists, relegating the Malaysians to imported music. Local artists do not get their due publicity, expertise in production or quality music videos. Independent label are hard to come in CD stores and finding a respectable act between the numerous miniature labels is akin to winning the jackpot.
because of this, the industry is forced to concentrate on music shows similar to American Idol as their mainstream of income. You would be foolish to expect anything aurally simulating from this.
so in hindsight, you americans should support the local industry by buying CDs and not abusing the freedom entitled to your purchase by sharing it with millions. 10 close friends is acceptable i would argue, but please do urge them to actually buy a legal copy if they like it.
———————————–
on a tangent, lets imagine this scenario where there is this great band playing the local club. something that shatters the current genres of music, and seems instantly appealing to the audience.
if there is no music industry, as advocated by some of you , their outreach would had been very limited. A breakthrough of music would had been missed. You might argue an independent would had picked them up…but independants earn money through sales of music too. Do you expect them to rise through the ranks by playing the American band circuits in 2012? This aint the 70s and 80s. Blogs are extremely limited. Twitters as well. Imagine selling a new diet soda through blogs only. How many dedicated clients are you going to get? 100k , 200k? Same as a new band. 200k is the starting point. Without industry backing, how would you get the international exposure or 100 million? With this , it is impossible to imagine sold out concerts of 100ks with zero music sales.
I love my music. I want to hear new things. The industry is important. Share and charge with moderation.
———————————–
Bloody spoiled rich americans refusing to purchase a cheap CD to support the act they like. Don’t like the big labels? Buy the small ones then or don’t at all. This attitude is going to bite you in the ass later on in life.
BTW neostyles is one of retarded minds new screen names, also posts as nub cakes cause he’s having trouble getting off the boards here @ torrentfreak :0)
As you all know, seen one troll, seen them all…
@Anonymous (246): In all Webster’s example usage in relation to intangibles, the use is metaphorical. We can combine two together. ‘To steal someone’s heart’ only literally means theft, if you’re a body snatcher.
We’re talking about the sharing of culture. If I tell you a story, you can re-tell it. If I play you a tune, you can re-play it. In aural traditions, there are no artefacts of culture to be stolen. Perversely, it’s technology that’s taking us backwards, from a business-driven culture to a community-driven one. And, as has been pointed out so many times, it’s that that scares the hell out of the record companies.
@246
Lessee.
I have to disagree. By seeding my torrents, I am still giving things up. I am giving up the chance to, for example, upload other things because I am giving up my bandwidth usage so that someone else might have what I do. And of course I’m running that risk of getting caught and thrown in jail, and I’m doing it because I believe that others should have the files I do. I don’t gain anything from seeding; it’s all for others. How’s that for a selfless act?
Excellent job of misunderstanding me. Bravo. I never said that digital media are ideas. I said that digital media are intangible things, like ideas are. As such the same concept as sharing an idea applies to sharing digital files. You just wasted time writing a response to a post you didn’t properly read.
No, once again, you’re misunderstanding me. You’re also putting words in my mouth. You can’t compare the sharing of tangible with the sharing of intangible- that’s the whole reason why every anti-piracy argument that involves such analogies as “You wouldn’t steal a car” is fallacious. It is far easier to share the intangible because of its infinite supply; I don’t eventually run out of this .mp3 I’m seeding. And if every person on Earth tapped into my connection and downloaded the .mp3 for himself, great. I just facilitated the distribution of art. If said distribution ends up somehow improving someone’s life or well-being, even in a small way, how can you call it wrong to share files?
Ignored for using a personal attack.
Nobody said that the sharing of data that directly compromises one person’s privacy and safety is okay. There’s a bit of a difference between torrenting a movie and torrenting a text file full of someone’s identity information. Ideas want to be shared (your use of ‘ripped off’ implies that people can own ideas, which is also fallacious), but passwords and credit card numbers and such are not “ideas.” Next.
Why are you speaking of tangible sharing, especially misguided tangible sharing, when filesharing, the primary topic here, is intangible? I think you’re just trying to muddle the issue by introducing irrelevant analogies. Next.
This one also contains a personal attack, but I’m going to respond to it anyway. Regardless of the fact that you’re working on a computer all day and perhaps distributing data or some such, you still get paid for your time. Duh. How could you have missed that…?
I don’t mind you coming here and starting arguments, but could you at least train a bit before the next one? Or actually study up on the claims you’re spouting?
@247
I like the fact that you mostly remained civil while posting this. Kudos, despite the fact that I disagree with you and am going to respond to your points.
I ought to point out that Malaysia is a very small country and obviously doesn’t have the industrial resources that a country like the US does. Ergo, you can’t really expect it to have a fantastically successful music industry.
lols, indeed.
I actually agree with this. Good job. I agree because of the fact that you said “local.” It’s obvious that you don’t live in the US, so: In this country, local does not mean national corporate stores and such. Local means the nearby mom & pop grocer instead of Safeway. In terms of local, it would mean supporting artists that you personally know, or that live in your town, and aren’t big-name rockstars. And a lot of people are perfectly okay with doing that, myself included. We are also perfectly okay with supporting non-local artists that we like. What we are not okay with are draconian laws set by a commercial organization that prohibits sharing at all.
In the paragraph below this one (which I left out for post length purposes), you talk about artists not receiving exposure without a music industry. While it is true that the record labels spend some serious coin to promote certain artists, it’s not the only way for people to get heard. Peer-to-peer networks, like BitTorrent, are extremely good ways of spreading awareness of something; I personally think BT is the best distribution model in the world. This is why: An artist can upload a torrent for their new CD on TPB or somewhere and that’s all they have to do. It doesn’t require huge technical expertise to create a torrent; more like a few minutes of time. Once you get the torrent uploaded and you start seeding your album, all you have to do is sit back and watch your popularity grow. The p2p network takes care of everything else for you. If your music is good, then more people will distribute it and more people will know about it. BT is great for building a fanbase, especially for those lesser-known artists that don’t get promoted by the record labels. One final thing: The artist can always set up a donation page and request that people donate so that he can continue producing his music. Since the money goes straight to the artist, and because of how much money the music industry takes from CD sales before giving to the artists, they might actually make more money this way. The corporate executives will certainly make less, and they’re too filthy rich anyway.
Honestly, this is the part of your post that disappointed me. You were doing a great job with legitly presenting arguments, and then you had to go and do this. For one thing, not all Americans are bloody spoiled rich. In fact, few are. I, for example, basically live in poverty, and could never afford the music I’ve downloaded (in the hundreds of tracks). So it’d be good if you didn’t, like, generalize every American with a stereotype. Second, CDs here are not considered cheap. Many people complain about how CDs contain perhaps one or two tracks that are good, but the rest of the tracks aren’t. And yet they still pay full price and can’t get a refund. People feel cheated, and if the prices of CDs were lowered, sales would increase. Finally, people may be boycotting CDs for another reason entirely. I, for example, am not going to buy any CDs put forth by the Rich Idiots Abusing Artists (RIAA) because I think they are evil. This stands even if I love the artist. If I can afford it, perhaps I’ll donate some money directly to them, but the record labels are never seeing another penny from me again. I know that after the Jammie Thomas retrial last week, more people are pissed at the music industry and will start boycotting them- which is how you really hurt a business.
http://creativecommons.org/license/
Moby you stop the talking and start acting if he sees nothing wrong release all his work that he still controls if any under a copyright permissive license like the CC 3.0 that retains commercial interests and make it legal to copy and distribute it if not for commercial purposes.
Will he do it? I doubt this is just marketing.
Damn 252 people too short.
regardless of your stance on P2P downloading and whether or not you think the farse of a trial was fair or not (how many judges were “randomly” selected that had strong ties to anti-piracy groups?) have to admit that $80,000 a song is obscene. the RIAA is making more money off these people than most of the artists they are “fighting for”. artsist make next to nothing on a CD by CD basis, the music company itself is who makes all the money (bands/groups make most of it via merchandise and touring) and it is the INDUSTRY who is behind all this, looking out only for themselves. countless MAINSTREAM artists have come out and given interviews with websites such as TF about how they love P2P and how fielsharing helps jumpstart careers nowadays.
i have paid for maybe 2 CDs in the past 3 years, and only because they are independent artists paying for the recording costs and everything and “publishing” via itunes. there is no reason a perfectly sane person would pay $20+ for one song on a CD when they can either pay $.99 via itunes or get it for free via torrents. i dont know about you, but im pretty sure the recording industry doesnt need anymore money in its already grossly bloated and inflated pockets.
support artists, pirate music.
Moby is incredibly selfish and shortsighted. As a big artist, he has had the luxury of not being affected by piracy. If the RIAA were disbanded, there would be no one to provide financial support or legal support. He’s only thinking about himself. What a clueless ass.
He was talking about deleting your material. When you share a pencil with somoene, you have one less. When you “share” something with someoen using P2P, bittorrent, you aren’t depeliting any of your material, because you always have it on your computer. Real sharing requires a selfless act, which conflicts with the nature of piracy. At it’s core, piracy is just thinking about yourself.
Pirates just repackaged their actives under the word “sharing” in order to imbue theft with kindness and generosity.
@247 : You make some very good points. Still, I am American and I am proud to pay for all my stuff.
Indeed, if there was no music industry, there would be no artists to begin with. There would be no mechanism in place to facilitate the sale of CDs or to handle touring. Contrary to what many people here think, without income the artists can’t exist, and with their two source of income gone, the artists also cease to exist.
You are enjoying your life at the expense of others.
Just because Malaysia’s music industry couldn’t be as big as the American music industry, doesn’t mean it couldn’t have one. It could have had a music industry, even not as big as the one inthe states. Pirates had no right to make that decision for malaysia.
That would essentially cut the recording’s profits in half. Who are we to make that kind of decision for them?
You keep on calling laws draconian. That’s asanine, considering that for the purpose of this discussion, all they are telling you to do is pay for your things. It sounds like you just have a problem with following rules in general.
If not, then please explain to me what is so mind boggling about actually paying for things?
There was a personal attack, but you shouldn’t side step the point. It feels like you’re cherrry picking when it comes to your responses. Anon was trying to say that you pirates only thing about yourself and that’s exactly it.
Uhm, yeah.. Bittorrent spreads awareness by giving out the whole thing for free. At this point, the spoiled brat has what he wants. The pirate has his music, hans’t paid a cent, and there for doesn’t care about anything anymore.
This doesn’t happen. This is the biggest myth. Pirates enjoy their pilfered material, not use it to spread the word. Also, those who they spread the word too, will most likely be pirates, who will just follow the torrent link and NOT contribute to the artist like you are SUPPOSED to do.
Im sorry, but your logic here is just aweful and only reflects the ingrained desire of someone who is opposed to paying even a cent out of their own pocket for things that they like.
OK, once the artist starts seeding thier work then what? Are they making money. You don’t seem to appreciate the value of that money. They deserve that money, because it IS their work. Not YOURS. Donations? When music is someone’s entire career, I don’t think “maybe I’ll get paid” is good enough to place all your trust in. When you commit your life to anything, you need guarantees, that it will pay off. Piracy is removing these.
Amongst all the talk of thew new information age, you should have realized that intagible propety still property, according to the law, and as evidenced by massive piracy losses. Don’t ask me for proof. Go spend two minutes on google.
You missed the point. As clarified above, intangible things can still affect the real world.
*****VERY WELL PUT******
This perfectly exposes the loopholes in the whole pirate “sharing” philosophy.
Even if you make copies, and leave the original, you are still harming people. With the intangible, though, diminishing, the original property seems nonapplical, as you can’t physically remove code from a computer, unless you hack into it, and somehow manage to delete it. But those are things that pirates are not into.
Pirates feed on the doctrine of non applicability for the law, but as we are seeing, they are very wrong.
Uh, you are taking something from someone else without their permission (permission in this case constitutes payment/compensation). We have already established that destruction of the original is not a requisite, so this suffices.
The law authorities in several countries have committed millions of dollars to bringing down piracy (n addition to international efforts), so in retrospect, no. Whether you like it or not, piracy is a crime. Im sorry.
We both know that that is BS. Piracy’s effect on the industry is well known. It’s how it drew so much attention to itself. It’s how the music industry and the software industry experience million dollar losses every year thanks to you and your freetard friends.
Nothing I’ve seen from PIRATES suggests that they even care about the entertainment industry. ALL that I have seen is :
» How the RIAA is evil. Have you even been paying attention. They.. wait.. you call it the MAFIAA. Now, given that, do you really think they would have the slightest bit of respect for it.
» How copyright is evil. And how any kind of rule in general is “draconian.”
Jesus christ. You try to convince people that the entertainment industry is the anti christ and next you turn around and tell me that you support them. LOL! Can you try and be honest with yourself?
Talk about reality proof bubble. Why do you think it’s called, piracy dipshit? Is your head that far up your own ass that you can claim that something called piracy is legitimate? And if you’re going to try and allege that this title isn’t official, you need only look at the PIRATE party.
Oh, my mistake. I didn’t realize that Moby was part of the movie industry.
Even if I went with your claim, I can find no website to support it.
If you are that delusional, that you really require proof that P2P is doing harm, well then stuff this in your pipe
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1027-996205.html
http://www.bsa.org/country/News%20and%20Events/News%20Archives/en/2009/en-05202009-watchlist.aspx
Im sure they are calling it a WATCH list since piracy is ok, right?
What the hell did you expect? People are just grabbing whatever their spoiled little brat hearts desire off of the torrents.
Oh right, I see. You’re gonn have me believe that “pirates purchase more content than the average consumer” in support of a group, they so respectfully refer to as thr MAFIIA? You’re full of it. You are so full it.
Let me remind you. You’re the one claiming that piracy is legitimate. That’s like standing on the beach and yelling “See! The ocean is made out of beer!”
I seriously doubt that if this was the case, the government would just let this slip under the radar. Do you even think about what you are claiming?
LOL
Which part of this makes the RIAA a terrorist organisation. You’re starting to sound paranoid.
………….
Those all harm people. If anything pirates are the terrorist. They inflict huge losses on the industry while at the same time trying to change government policy in favor of the same ideology that causes those losses. Not really the definition of terrorism, but much clsoer.
What’s your moral basis for lying that filesharing is theft, Mr. Iraqi… Whoops, sorry… Mr. RIAA Information Minister?
Uhm, do I need one? It’s the truth, as explained above.
Wrong. Many torrent sites make huge amounts of money off of their advertsising, making ita criminal offense.
Since the article concerns the RIAA, they also are cooperate with foreign law enforcement to take down bootlgetting. Since im sure you don’t know that that is, let me educate you. Bootleggers make physical copies of copyrighted material and sell them for. Again, profit is involved which makes it a crime.
You called me a liar, “trollstyles”, “knob polisher”, and a “MAFIAA whote”. Your point? Oh wait, you don’t have one.
1 a: the act of stealing ; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it b: an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property2obsolete : something stolen3: a stolen base in baseball
All those copies you make are the property of the respective copyright holders. That’s how non tangible property works.
Considering you are here trying to rationalize taking things without paying for them, it’s more like confusing yourself with me.
What would happen if we started a movement to stop buying music for couple of months and stop requesting music on radio for couple of months? The only thing they will listen to is money – or lack of it!
i dont want moby on our side he is a member of Scientology
@neostyles
Original post, which was huge, was cut down for tl;dr purposes.
Once again you’re comparing physical sharing with intangible sharing- another on your list of constant mistakes. Is the sharing of ideas selfish at its core as well? No, because that’s exactly how we as people learn. Do I commit a selfless act by sharing an idea? Yes, because although it might not significantly cost me anything, it can still be a selfless act if it benefits someone else. To be technical, I must take the time to share the idea. The same principles apply to digital files.
Uh… there was music long before there was an industry for it. But oh, right, you can’t understand that because you see music as a commodity to profit from.
Translation: Who are we to exercise our rights as human beings if it supposedly deprives commercial entities of their profits, according to those entities?
And you keep generalizing and putting words in my mouth. Explanation coming up.
If we lived in a world where absolutely everything, even human life, had monetary value and could be bought and traded and sold, that world would be incredibly sad. What room is there for morals and true justice in such a world? Oh, I saved your life, so now you must pay me. If you do not, I’ll just kill you to “repossess” what I did. There’s nothing wrong with financially supporting those who you appreciate, but compelling people to do so in exchange for what is otherwise freely, and justly, available to the world’s people is asinine. No, it’s not that, it’s greed.
The “draconian” laws are those that deny people the privacy and freedom they are entitled to as humans.
M’kay, you want me to reply to it? Fine.
In response, I has link:
http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/jason-rohrer/freeDistribution.html
It talks about why charging for digital copies is flawed. It applies to all things digital, not simply software.
Will you stop with the personal attacks?
…and with the generalizing?
Thank you! It’s nice to hear that my logic is grand enough to inspire awe in people. :D
The problem is making music into a “career” because you turn music into a commercial commodity with monetary value. Music is a work of art, not a commodity.
According to intellectual property laws, which I’ve established are themselves flawed. You can’t own ideas and you can’t own something you can’t hold in your hands.
What are massive piracy losses? Losses suffered by filesharers? I don’t get it, so I ran it through a BS filter and it told me that you’re talking about industry losses due to filesharing. Losses that are reported by trade groups that have a commercial interest in fighting filesharing and have been known to be less than honest with their reports and actions and therefore can’t be trusted. See where you’re wrong?
Who? The record labels who make the vast majority of the money from CD sales? Let’s see, I can help out the common man or I can help out rich corporate executives.
One, music is not private information. You can’t compare someone’s music, which they have released to the public, with their address. Two, copying and distributing someone’s car key falls squarely into the category of “things that we are not, in fact, free to do because it directly harms someone else.” Nobody is going to have their car stolen or their house broken into if their music is shared. And preemptive strike against your counterargument: Filesharing does not directly harm anyone at all because: nothing is being taken, it betters humanity to share, and you can’t claim you lost what you never had.
No, whether you like it or not, piracy is not a crime. I know, it sucks to have one of your buzzwords that you use as propaganda to fool people shot down, but I’m not really sympathetic about it. Law authorities in Iran are also committing to suppressing protests against the election; does this mean that protesting is a crime? Oh, and don’t forget the criminalization of homosexuality! Just because people spend money on fighting it doesn’t mean it’s a crime.
Personal attack. You do NOT advance your cause by calling people names, you only piss them off.
But I just know that you’re going to be all “Even though there was a personal attack, the point still stands.” Actually, no it doesn’t. I can choose to ignore it because you backed it up with a personal attack. Rephrase your point without being a jerk about it and maybe I’ll consider it as a legit argument.
DUDE. What the hell are you trying to accomplish by throwing around swearing? This is yet another point I get to ignore because you won’t post in a civilized manner.
Then you fail at online research. Here’s proof, straight from the MPAA itself: http://mpaa.org/researchStatistics.asp
Politicians are paid off by the RIAA’s lobbyists. That’s why they aren’t prosecuted for any of the obviously evil crap they do.
Do they really, now? One, how can you inflict a loss when you aren’t stealing from anyone and you aren’t depriving anyone of anything? Two, once again I remind you that anti-piracy figures come not from independent studies, but from organizations with commercial interests in fighting filesharing. They are dishonest and cannot be believed.
I’ve asked you to prove this before, and you’ve not done so.
PROVE IT.
This is called guilt by association. It’s a logical fallacy. Basically you’re saying that because people who commercially profit from downloading and selling copyrighted material are criminals, the people who download said material are also criminals. You’ll find very few filesharers that support commercial downloading. Try again, please.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
WOW, that was a ton of crap I had to wade through! It boggles the mind that you continue to waste your time here by throwing around:
-Lies
-Swear words
-Personal attacks
-Logical fallacies
-Evidence of your complete ignorance regarding filesharing.
Why not benefit humanity as a whole and just leave?
The Law is supposed to treat each case equally not make a ridiculous example of one particular case of many.. Everyone knows that Jammie can’t pay $1.92 million so why fine her that much.
She should sue for being made the one out of many to be made an example of rather than being treated equally by the law.
….it only works if you believe in it…
everyone in here is dumb to sum up
1.) moby sucks
2.) radiohead doesn’t
3.) there is a calculator program on every computer so no-one should be doing bad at math
4.) capitalism is…wal-mart
the easist site for torrents (movies, music, software, games) is http://www.entertane.com – faster, simpler – and you can search all your favorite torrent sites.
This is just a desperated attempt to save the record industry. Records companies know they are in trouble via “a do it yourself industry.” The music business is very alive, however, the record industry is not.
Hey,
rule#1
don’t feed the trolls
Maybe if they did not outsource all the tech jobs to India we would have money to BUY your products, but being I do not have money I have been taking this route for years.
We can’t help we are smart enough to figure this out and we will KEEP ON leeking info. You can’t stop an army of nerds. By the time you come up with some lawsuit, we are busy coming up with easier ways to file share.
Keep giving lawsuits..slow yourself down what do we care…
We have our heads sucked into coding while you are playing games with AIR.
You can’t sue the world.
There are more of US than YOU.
I hate to say it but Moby’s Tea place had what they call jewish lightening…a “sudden fire” to collect whatever insurance money he could get out of his business.
creativity does not cost a dime..
the math involved is this:
Time+Creativity+Idea
simple as that
whoever put a PRICE on art should be shot to death
art is free
free is power
and NIN learned this early on and
you will learn it too eventually
thank you Moby, currently listening to ‘In My Heart’ via Spotify :)
So I have a suggestion that will prob make it no further than this page.
There seems to be quite a few well known artists who feel that the degree of this punishment is completely ridiculous and I agree. However they don’t seem to actually be doing anything aside from voicing their disdain.
What I would like to suggest is that they intervene and pay the cost of this poor woman’s recenlty acquired debt.
After all, actions speak louder than words. I doubt it would be as detrimental to the pockets of say moby and radiohead than it would be to this single mother.
Also it would begin a public rift between big record companies and big artists. Something I would personally like to see.
This is just my two cents.
As I recall the copyright laws were initially created to protect ARTISTS (specifically graphic artists but eventually others) from companies and corporations that would reproduce their work ad infinitum, FOR profit without either paying the artist or, in some cases, even acknowledging the artist. Interesting and kind of disgusting how that has evolved into the corporations being considered ‘the artist for purposes of copyright’. Blame the lawyers for that one.
Is filesharing stealing? Of course it is (in the case of files placed on the net for sharing by anyone other than the owner or their authorized representative). You’re obtaining something without the permission of the owner and sharing it with others, also without permission, so what do you think? On the other hand, is all stealing criminal? Of course not (see stealing an idea, stealing second base, stealing a peek at[not your neighbor in the shower; that is criminal], etc.).
I’m inclined to fall on the side of “file sharing isn’t criminal” unless the person doing it is in some way attempting to make a profit from it.
The record and movie industry seem to forget that, at some point, they will make these items available without cost to viewers via television or terrestrial radio. Sure they’ll get paid by the television and radio networks but does what they get paid always cover the actual number of viewers and listeners who get their products for free? I don’t know but I’d really like to find out.
What I do know is that when I see or hear something I like from one of these free avenues I’m far more likely to buy it than I am when I’ve already paid what is usually an exorbitant amount to see/hear it. I’m betting that others feel the same way. Many of the surveys I’ve heard of seem to agree with me.
Considering that downloading a music file doesn’t physically deprive the record label of anything (the music is still in their warehouse, on their cds and in their computers) a judgement such as the one rendered here is sublimely ridiculous.
As I understand it, it couldn’t even be proven that she actually shared files, just that she had them in a folder where they could be accessed. If this is the case, then an appropriate fine would be the iTunes/Amazon standard $0.99 and reasonable court costs. Allowing damages in the amounts cited in this case when, again, she made no profit from the file sharing, is ridiculously onerous.
As for Moby: nice that he spoke out on her behalf but it’d be nicer still if he contributed something to her legal fees.
It would also make my day (well, maybe not) if he and every other artist who disagrees with the tactics of the RIAA would, when their next contract negotiations come around, say, “No thanks. I don’t like the way you people treat my fans, so I think I’ll do it myself from now on.”
If they are half as business savvy as anyone who’s been in this industry for years should be they won’t go off into the woods of independent music and suffer a lingering death, as some people seem to think they would. Ani deFranco manages to survive, NIN gives the music away and yet still doesn’t seem to be going broke. Internet finds Jonathan Coulton, Geoff Smith and the Lascivious Biddies, among others may not be pulling in millions yet but they are gaining growing audiences with the simple act of giving away some of their music for free.
Speak with contempt all you like about those terrible, morality-bereft, criminal, internet PIRATES (shudder!) but they seem to be the ones who are actually willing to support the artists rather than the smug, glad-handing, corporate executives who claim to support the artists even as they nickel-and-dime them into owing on contracts that should have provided income to them.
For every person taken down by the RIAA hundreds if not thousands take their place.
When will they get the idea that it is a loosing battle.
For every P2P site taken down many others take their place.
I may not be a huge fan of Moby but I agree with him.
My respect for Moby just went up a couple of notches. Now what we need is for all the artists that feel this way to separate themselves from the record companies.
Think about it: music can be marketed and distributed independantly online by anyone, and with todays technology it doesn’t take a million dollars (or even 10’s of thousands of dollars) to make an album. I’ve heard plenty of recordings done on laptops in garages that have sounded fantastic. So who needs these middlemen anymore? I swear that this whole exercise is less about pirating music and more about making it seem like the record label execs still perform a necessary function.
As new artists we have to say NO to the current system, and as consumers we have to say NO to the product of that system.
@Reasoned Mind\neostyles
I really enjoy ripping your arguments to pieces. The slightly depressing thing about it is that 4nd seems to be better at it than I am (respect 4nd, btw)
Ho hum, tag in…
[Quote]..that is, piracy is (a fact we can all agree) a civil infraction at the moment and not yet has it been made criminal. [/Quote]
Great. Could you stop calling it theft, stealing and pilfering in the meantime? It’s damn annoying.
[Quote]Not buying was the smart and sensible, legal way to change business methods and models if that was your goal.[/Quote]
I haven’t bought for years…
[Quote]If you think there is more honor in being a mouse who by definition must sneak around while breaking laws, take your best shot I suppose.[/Quote]
No.
I think there’s honour in tearing down a corrupt, immoral, malignant scurge on society. The media cartels have thoroughly deserved their immininant fate, and I consider it my moral and social duty to be among those that help deliver it.
[Quote]The landscape is littered with the Daniel Doves and the Jammie Thomas’s and Tenenbaum will be next; punitive actions are really only just now getting started in earnest.[/Quote]
Wow, they sure are taking their time… You’re able to name every high-profile ‘victory’ of the cartels so far. Chuck in a few thousand faceless victims of the lawyer intimidation policy and… no, still doesn’t represent a drop in the millions-of-downloads-per-day ocean of the filesharing community. Utter, unabashed, FUD-spreading rubbish.
[Quote]So instead of arguing theory, why not build a good case why the work of one particular industry (and so far only one) SHOULD be demonetized and decoupled from long standing purchase and licensing agreements. If you are Communist, that might be your basis. If you really do see merchandise as mere “zero’s and one’s” with no other intrinsic value and therefore not worthy of sale or license, explain why, because more and more will be digitized in our future.[/Quote]
There is no point in arguing this. Any industry whose products can be digitised will have to adapt. Period.
That’s not to say that those industries don’t add value, simply that it’s impossible to quantify that value based on unit sales. Any attempt to do so is anachronistic and doomed to fail.
[Quote]If you really believe artistic creation is unworthy and in fact songs or movies or books or games should not be paid for, offer a good and workable solution how their creators can earn a living.[/Quote]
Sorry to be blunt, but it’s not the job of consumers to establish how companies should make money. Give the market a tenable product and it will respond. You reject outright the idea of mechandise and live performances. I would argue that trying to scarcify something that is inherently universal is just plain stupid. The only realistic options are to bring the product back into the physical realm or impose some kind of levy.
My prediction? At some point, the media companies will realise they’re about to go to the wall. At that point, they’ll ’settle’ for being a minor facilitator, rather than the profit-creaming gatekeepers they’ve gotten used to being.
And we’ll all be better off. Even Reasoned Mind\neostlyes.
I am NEVER giving a penny to the music industry because of this case. I hope I’m not the only one, but if I am, so be it.
“Be the change you want to see in the world”:
Way to go Moby! It’s good to see that not all artists are greedy bastards focused solely on their income.
Every now and then the copyright runs out for all the very old movies..Instead of going to the public domain,an orrible bastard goes to court and a beak from hell extends the copyright for another 15 years.(bigup to woodys dad)..America is not capitalism,but a quasi-totalitarian cartel.,deeply infected by pigys(the day will never come Zodiac boy)..If the orrible bastards try to take you to court,tell the judge,(point finger,shout)..BOO “I dont recognize this court ,for you have have destroyed this world”
Sad. Moby’s in a priveleged position of not having to care about people stealing his music. The rest of us aren’t so lucky.
Shame on you RIAA. Shame on you Moby.
Shame on you Torrentfreak…
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