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SABAM Charged With Copyright Fraud, Embezzlement, Money Laundering

Belgian music rights group SABAM has a serious headache looming. Following a complaint filed by an artist back in 2004, a judge began investigating the group’s finances. His findings mean that SABAM will now face court accused of falsifying accounts to cover up bribe payments, abuse of trust, copyright fraud and embezzlement.

In 2004, a Belgian composer filed a complaint against local music rights group SABAM. Philippe Delhaye, an associate member of SABAM, claimed that there had been “breaches” in the correct payment of his royalties.

Delhaye’s complaint, which was backed up with witness statements from a former SABAM general manager and a former group auditor, triggered off interest in SABAM’s internal affairs.

Later that year Judge Frederic Lugentz began a fraud investigation which focused on SABAM’s non-profit association Caisse d’Entraide et de Solidarité (CES), a fund which SABAM claimed was to support older members over 60.

The investigation culminated in 2007 and resulted in 24 complaints against the group including embezzlement, money laundering and the falsification of accounts, the latter to allegedly cover up the payment of bribes to an official in the Ministry of Finance.

Although many charges were dropped due to Belgium’s statute of limitations, SABAM must now face Belgium’s criminal court on six charges.

Former SABAM President Jacques Leduc is one of the accused but former financial directors Marcel Raiglot and Jean Huysmans and current finance director Luc Van Oycke are being held accountable for corruption and forgery.

“We are pleased that the merits of the case will be heard by the criminal court,” says SABAM general manager Christophe Depreter. “I am fully confident that we can show that nothing wrong happened.”

A date has not yet been set for the court hearing.

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  • C. Obvious

    First.

    My job here is done.

  • Deity

    Fantastic.

    May I suggest about $450,000,000,000 in fines and 15 years prison to be an appropriate punishment.

    • Anonymous

      sounds low to me for all the damage they have caused

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobby-Marks/1432576223 Bobby Marks

        A music rights organization sees about ten cents per song per sale/play. And since we all know that a song is worth about $250,000 in court, I think they should be fined $250,000 for every ten cents they moved illegally.

        • Anonymous

          5 billion * 250000 = 1.25 * 10^15

          seems fair.

        • Guest

          250,0000 bullets? Too expensive.

          Let lock them all in the trash they call their headquarter and drop a JDAM bomb on it or even shiper put it on fire and shoot the few who try to escape.

      • Guest

        What’s about hanging them all?

        • A_gel

          It’s not as funny as make them live from social help for the rest of there lives.

    • Anonymous

      This is what a small music group is doing, now imagine what the RIAA and the MPAA does to great artists around the world. Lets shove a rod up their arses.

      • Anonymous

        It would only be a fitting punishment, if the rod was piping hot before it went up their asses

      • Froddo

        i recon that all the others will now be cleaning house

        • MAFIAA

          Don’t worry I cover up my shit well

          *sniff* *sniff* er… did I leave a trail behind?

    • blah

      That’s the equivalent of being slapped on the wrist and being sent to bed with no tea by MAFIAA standards.

    • Carwyn

      Totally appropriate by music industry standards :)

    • Anonymous

      More like 950.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 in damages and life terms in prison for embezzlement, money laundering, conspiracy to commit theft, thats just the beginning of the charge sheet!

    • Anonymous

      For every little tune they screwed someone on that Artists or if Class Action Suit should ask for the MAXIMUM AMOUNT entitled per song.
      And do not settle this OUT OF COURT !!!

      Now onto the RIAA/MPAA !!!! That would be the greatest News in my life.To see both of those asshole organizations caught red-handed and then forced to shell out billions of dollars.I would love to see them both bankrupted and dead.

    • Guest

      Free Hana Beshara!

      Free Kim dotcom!

      Free Bradley Manning!

      • http://www.facebook.com/ValhallaLegend Andrew Lee

        Yeah! Free Charles Ma wait wrong place lol.

    • GUEST

      FREE BRADLEY MANNING!
      FREE HANA BESHARA!
      FREE KIM DOTCOM!

      • Ab

        FREE HAT!

      • lulz

        FREE WILLY!

        • lulz

          FREE YOUR WILLY!

    • Anonymous

      That sounds like far too much money. The figure almost resembles the imaginary amounts demanded by copyright lobbying firms in filesharing trials, which is basically wrong.

      I think, for the SABAM people implicated in this case ten years of sharing a cell with people of the same general persuasion as themselves who also happen to have an imperative desire to violate the personal rights (among other things) of their new cellmates will serve justice far better.

  • blah

    Ahahahahaha! I hope they get what’s coming to them and all the other shady fuckers in their line of work.

  • Forever

    I remember reading about piracy issues with Charles Dickens — This will NEVER end. We will always find a way to share our products.

  • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

    We all know the MAFIAA.org and their evil minions and CopyWrong Trolls worldwide such as Belgium’s Sabam are liars, cheats, thieves, bribers and selfish bastards who want to destroy the internet, people’s freedoms and hard fought-for Human Rights just because they refuse to accept the reality of 21st century technology and society.

    But apart from thes blatant problems which are as clear to anyone who chooses to see, the problem most of us face worldwide with bringing cases against these asswipes who are mere pimps of our “elected” politicians is proof with corroboration.

    On that point alone, this is the MOST important quote from TF’s article,

    “Delhaye’s complaint, which was backed up with witness statements from a former SABAM general manager and a former group auditor, triggered off interest in SABAM’s internal affairs.”

    No-one will be able to bring a case without evidence, corroboration and (preferably) witnesses too – let alone hope to win without all these elements.

    This case is HUGE, and has important repercussions for the very future of the MAFIAA and their so-called “content industry” as their credibility is crushed yet again with more convictions for corruption.

  • Rox

    die assholes die…. u deserve it

  • Pirate

    !!AUDIT MAFIAA & RIAA!!

  • Anonymous

    about time

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  • Anonymous

    i sincerely hope that this case is just the beginning. i doubt if there are many artists that haven’t been ripped off by the respective entertainment industry they are part of/signed with. if only politicians weren’t so gullible as to believe everything that the industry spokes people/lobbyists tell them, with ‘encouragement’ or not, it would soon be seen what they were really like, really up to and really wanted. unfortunately, ‘there are none so blind as those that will not see’!

    will be interesting to see how they manage to worm out of this. i am not convinced that there will be a true, unbiased vertict. i still remember the way the dice were loaded against TPB, even after proof of ‘conflicts of interest’ were raised about the judges!

  • Anonymous

    So not only have SABAM just got their butt kicked by the European Court of Justice but now they face trial for running a criminal organization. Sweet.

    There is no doubt in my mind that these various copyright cartels and rights enforcers are some of the biggest criminals around. They have both the power and the monopoly and they use this power to abuse the market in no end of criminal ways.

    We should recall that when the United States broke up Thomas Edison’s monopoly he controlled 81% of the market but the combined power of the MPAA now controls about 85% of the market,

    It is a shame that the statute of limitations prevent a full examination of SABAM’s criminal operation and dealings. We can only hope though that this leads to investigations of such services in other countries including the United States.

    Then let us not forget that any Government workers who accepted bribes should in all cases be given prison terms and stripped of their gain. There should never be a statute of limitations on corruption.

    • grinch

      if it’s a criminal organization, like you said, will the autorithies do the “megaupload way” with SABAM, ’cause i really wanna see 100 policemen and a bunch of helicopters and tanks and other things like that, going aggro on them?

      • Anonymous

        One rule for us and one rule for them. We would be lucky if the judge even orders SABAM to be shut down.

        I see that the US has now added on more charges to this Mega case…
        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17080942

        So they finally added on “wire fraud” and others when I was left puzzled early on why their charges were so limited compared to the usual throw every crazy charge at them case.

      • Danny

        I was thinking exactly the same! ‘Wheres the Belgian SAS when you need it?’

      • Danny

        I was thinking exactly the same! ‘Wheres the Belgian SAS when you need it?’

    • Anonymous

      ‘There should never be a statute of limitations on corruption.’

      agree with this but am extremely curious as to why nothing more was done before the time limit ran out? could it be a sign of the least as possible, if anything, going to be done to Sabam in the end, but no choice left except to go ahead with another ‘Spectrial’ because so long has passed since the original complaint? i mean 3 years from complaint to end of investigation, then 5 more years before going to trial. come on! if giving Sabam 8 years to cover their arses wasn’t enough, how long do they need?

  • http://www.facebook.com/KadaiCrosshansen Kadai Crosshansen

    Since I have not seen it posted here…

    The past year, another european music agency faced a similar fate when its head was arrested due corruption, i that case it was the SGAE, the music protection organism from Spain that is well know for its draconinan attemps to force copyright on Spain.

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110701/14534214935/head-spanish-music-collection-society-facing-corruption-charges.shtml

    Since such corporation and organizations have so much money, they eventually need the power of corruption to enforce they own targets, and since everyone there does not seek more than their own profit… this is not a surprise at all.

    If those two (SGAE and SABAM) are clear examples of corruption, now imagine how dirty is the RIAA and such that does not have a single eve over them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    They should also add copyright infringement to the charge sheet.
    The Sabam white on red ‘S’ logo is identical to the logo of the Safeway supermarket group. http://www.safeway.com/IFL/Grocery/Home

    While now just a US chain, it was formerly one of the UK’s big four supermarket chains. It first became independent of itsAmerican parent (the US side of the business had financial difficulties at the time) and in more recent years the UK chain was bought out and rebranded as Morrisons.

    My point though is that someone else within europe obviously still owns the rights to that ‘S’ Logo and it isnt Sabam.

  • Alyssa Blindy

    I am excited to see what comes from this. This ought to get interesting.

    • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

      Hi Alyssa xx

      This is off topic, but I dunno how else to contact you.
      Here’s a news article from the UK’s BBC about a colour-blind guy who uses a device to allow him to hear colour. It’s quite intriguing and possibly of some interest to you.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16681630

      • Noone

        May be off topic but nice to see the community helping the community, nice one Rob!!!

      • Alyssa Blindy

        Oh lol. Haha I already use that. I know about that. There are also devices that can read text for me ha. Wow. Thanks for the consideration though.

  • Victor Maillort

    I hope SABAM can prove themselves and clear themselves of all charges.
    Despite what you all think here, they actually do good work and protect a lot of artists from a lot of the true pirates who visit this board.

    Without the protection these (and agencies like SABAM) provide, few artists would make any kind of living except for public performances.

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  • Kr0nZ

    statute of limitations should be based on the original complaint, not from when it goes to trail.
    if an investigation takes longer than the statute of limitation then there is something obviously wrong here

    • jef

      The Belgian authorities excel in shoving cases under the carpet. In the eighties dozens of people were killed in armed raids on supermarkets. They still haven’t found any of the culprits, although they have just reopened the case. Perhaps even scarier, also in the eighties, a newspaper announced an article on links between a prominent minister and a child prostitution ring. The newpaper offices were fire-bombed. They published just one further issue with a photo of the burnt-out offices and the headline “Ils nous ne feront pas taire!” (They won’t silence us!). They never published again, and were never heard of again.

  • Tiger97a

    I DID notice that old anon the troll hasn’t came on this one an said a word about anything, guess the article says it all don’t if old fellow, don’t feel to bad yet as their is more news to come on this as they aren’t the only ones and the stink is gonna be sweet to the users of p2p. curious now or scared we will so wont we.

  • Lattari

    Finally a glimmer of truth surfaces from the ‘Righteous Protectors of Art’, and their hidden affairs. Although good news its evident from the article that this case would have never gotten wind, had there not been a breach of silence from several insiders. I pray that one day the truth of these propaganda rackets becomes visible, so that larger masses get an idea just how corrupt these people actually are.

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  • foff

    ha ha ha ho he har har har. Suck on it Sabam. You bunch scum sucking thugs!

  • Idon

    Like they say, crime pays, as anyone who ever dares look up will come to realise real fast.

  • Open Minded

    I hope all these fuk*ers like these parasites trusts corporations will fail , i hope all of they will be jailed (maybe when people wake up n make revolution ) all of these fat cats using money for bribes for corruption , for pay lobby ,to pay police force , to getting more power more control , to do what they want with people without justice (for they ” inocence before quilty proven doesnt exist ) , to breaking human rights (freedom , privacy etc ) al of these doesnt care about artists becouse in fact they steal and cheat artists ,they care about their money about control and they are real parasites which want control everything see ACTA PIPA SOPA and all these fuk*ing attempts to take total control ( im shure pretty soon they will propuse another piece of toilet paper “agreement” – becouse is clear ACTA falls , THANKS TO European Council of Justice recomandations which in fact have power as law so ACTA will not pass !!! :))))))))

    @Victor Maillort

    dude i think you are brainwashed or you are a part of these parasites

    in my country all artists see and know whos are behind and what doing these groups trusts corporations everybody reject ACTA and all of these shits , they know is better to stay away as independent artist ,they start to make their own sites and offer their arts (music video etc ) at low price or let people to donate in reward for their art – now they realize have much more money without corporations, without these parasite groups becouse everyone have few $ or eu to support artists which are with people not against people , which are for spread education , culture to educate , help people not to restict acces , prosecute or force them to pay a lot money
    people dont respect copyright becouse dont have enough money , they dont have enough money becouse others like these parasites take em becouse bankers politicians corruption , becouse they steal , cheat , foolish or force people to work for nothing like a slaves ( see whats happened in Asia – why big corporations moved here their production lines ? becouse they pay low , much low then in EU or in other “civilized” country ,hey encrease profit becouse they keep the same price when sale these products in EU SUA ETC , why happend this becouse in EU , SUA etc mass people are more informed, have acces at informations have dignity and refuse work for few coins , refuse to be slaves for almoust nothing
    People are poor becouse they dont have real acces at informations justice education etc becouse they are censored forced and manipulated brainwashed to belive in system , to obedient and work like slaves for few coins .When some of these people stop to belive in system and start to think ,when they try to get education they relize dont have money for that and guess whats happen – becouse they are smart and dont have money they stop respect their laws and make piracy or use pirated files
    What thes fat cats , coroprations , trusts belive is tottaly wrong – they belive will force mass people to respect their laws and buy original products – WRONG
    Mass people have low payments and dont have money to pay BUT mass people have brain and real power , so they will not buy becouse dont have money but will start to fight to destroy these groups , to find new ways to avoid or abolish stupid laws ,to make these fat cats to pay right price for stupid actions
    How these corporations will jail millions people from around the world or will ban internet – is stupid to think that is realistic , what happen if million people will not be able to use internet – is simple internet will disaper in one year ,what happen if million people will must be jailed ? Were ? After that that supouse states will pay billions and billions $ , euro etc to doing that – is UTOPIA ! after that im shure people will start fight , to make revolutions – and that mean all of these grups corporations etc will be erased
    So just a very stupid mind can belive it is realistic whats they intend to do
    Piracy will never disapear (will disapear maybe just when all people will have a enough money , decent payments to be able to buy original products )

    How can they (corporations groups trusts etc ) belive – a student ,a young without job or a worker who earn less then 1000 eu or eu / month (becouse payments are low) have money to pay rent , children education , food ,bills, and all that shit which sustain life and still have money to buy original products – books ( for study at university colege etc ) clothes , movies music tv shows etc etc and dont download or find a way to get all of these for free or at lower price ?

    They know that is imposibile becouse they create that dirty system to enslave prosecute and control people

    I can bet nobody who have enough money dont use pirated poductions , or if doing that dont have education and are so stupid , dont have sense to use copy pirated material if you have can pay for original original are always much good then a copy and i think anyone knows that so piracy exist becouse people dont have enough money, becouse mass people are “forced” to do that if wanna evlove , get education , culture NOT becouse people are dumb ,bad and insist to use a copy instead original ,not becouse people are against artists not becouse people have money but they dont wanna pay and use a shit copy .

    Who loves to use copies when have enough financial resource and acces to get the best material – original ?
    NOBODY (maybe just very stupid or mad people )
    Who use it copies ?
    Poeple who dont have enough money (becouse of low payments , financial problems ) or acces at get original products ( for example Africa Asia South America )
    In wich countries piracy is at high scale ?
    Exactly in China ,Russia ,Asia countries , East Europe countries etc – in general everywhere where huge masses people are poor, have low payments , were exist political censorship (see China) where corruption ar high , where all of this poor people want to evolve , to get education , culture , entertain and live like people from Vest EU , USA

    Is very clear they know that as well but hide that and copyright is just an excuse to get total control thats way they blame all people , for they all people are quilty before poven that and deserve prosecutions

    They want to control all of these huge poor masses becouse afraid of revolutions o , becouse they know when these billions people will get educations , acces at informations , will wake up and will have more power then now , becouse they know will loose control and manipulation

    Artists need support of people but they must to be with people and understand people becouse after all people sustain artists not artists sustain people artists just create ways to entertein and educate people to help society to evolve but people work hard to make material things – food , cars etc etc they doing “dirty” jobs which others refuse , they must be respected for that , without food ,without material things artists fails and society back on stone age when people just hunt and kill to survive
    What will happen if in one day people will refuse to pay for arts , if mass people (billions ) will breaking copyright law and stop to pay for art even have money to buy original , then artistst will fail , copyright law will become useless becouse laws cannot be applyed for mass people – after all majority people making laws (in theory) people decide to to respect , if in one day mass people think one law or other is useless then they will cancel law and dont respect
    in theory laws are conventions making by people to help people to habitate eachother in paceful and right moral way not to prosecute

    But remember with law or without majority have right for example if mass people think you must die then you will be killed , if they decide you must be jailed then you will be jailed, if they think you deserve to have a car , a home then you will have that
    but not forvever, laws are not forever , laws reflect what actual majority society wants now so laws are changed or abolished when majority decide that etc
    so mass people vote and decide what is good or not what is moral or not what is law or not etc – that is call democracy – dictatorship of masses
    but thats is just in theory becouse in fact people dont have rights, dont have a chance of choice , people votes is just bullshit – illusions
    in fact now just few “people” make their own rules , laws , manipulate ,control and decide what others must belive, must respect or doing ,or if deserve to live – that is no freedom , is a prison with invisibile bars call dictatorship

    • Asdf

      You should be more open minded when you make your criticism. Don’t generalize everyone who are in the same class as the “bad people” as they are devils as well. Not everyone will be held accountable in the end and it could be because some are actually innocent.

      But yes, I do agree with you, and you write like this polish guy I knew…

  • SororPisces

    The first time I read about SABAM, I thought that they could replace the egg in the frying pan for “This is your brain on drugs” in schools. The Pirate Bay is correct about this sort-delusional.

  • Dmitri Bovski

    So it wasn’t down to Piracy i guess we don’t need SOPA PIPA & ACTA

  • The guy

    Dear SABAM,

    Payback is a bitch, bitch. >:P

    From: Formerly disgruntled filesharer who is now happy that true justice will be administered.

    Now we just need Hollywood, MPAA, RIAA, and like-minded companies to either adapt to change, or forever be put in their place.

  • guest

    There website is takking down of anonymous.

    http://www.sabam.be/nl

  • The Overdude

    So much for Karma, SABAM.

  • http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

    ololo, tables turned. First it was music group to sue someone , now it’s being sued itself. What an irony

  • Guest

    I don’t get it

    is this a good thing or bad thing?

  • James

    This is what needs to happen to the RIAA. There’s no doubt they would be just as corrupt if not worse as corruption in the US is an accepted way of business life.

  • Krozar

    Been a great week for Europe!

  • http://www.twitter.com/echoman74 echoman

    best new all week :)

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  • Asdf

    I wrote a poem in honor of SABAM. Here:

    Oh, the words… Who owns them?

    I own them.
    -Me, I pester,
    I wrote these!

    You say nein.
    -You’re a jester,
    Eat less cheese!

    I’ll Copyright, mistake not!
    Make sure I sell’em for profit,
    and they’re mine, so STOP!

    Enter Internet! -What’s this plot?
    And this text? I’ll just copy it.
    Then what? Copies PLOP!

  • Boobies

    YES!!!!!!!! its about time Germans started kicking these pay up or else jokers. I am truly sorry for my Governments actions but you are a soveren nations and need to be sure you don’t let our fucked up government interfere in your laws and lives.

    • BlueCollarCritic

      If you want your country to remain sovereign then its critical to not let your politicians vote to join anything the United Nations is pushing. The EU was designed and implemented to be a stranglehold on a nations ability to act in its own best interest. By joining the EU its member states are finally seeing the farce that the EU is. Currently it is the banksters (organized crime lords within international banking) that determined that the Greek Prime minister would be Lucas Papademos and not whomever the people of Greece wanted to elect for that position. Once the EU has brought each member state to the edge of bankruptcy and forced them to embrace control over their country by the EU the peoples of these countries will no longer live in a soverign state but will be land serfs to the mega corporations that run the EU.

      Greece’s appointed–not elected–prime minister is Lucas Papademos, He is a former governor of the Bank of Greece, a member of Rockefeller’s Trilateral Commission, and former vice president of the European Central Bank. In other words, he is a banker appointed to represent the banks. If you don’t want this to happen in your country then stop believing the BS of the leaders of whatever political party you belong to and start voting for candidates that the leadership does not like because they don’t won them.

  • Maroan

    Hey-hey SABAM, who’s the pirate now, punk??

  • PRIVACY is priceless to me

    These _terrorist_ organizations have ALWAYS been screwing up, nothing new, the french one SACEM is long known for being a nest of thieves and Hitler-lovers .

    REFUSE, RESIST!

  • Pratox

    These fuckers call my dad asking money for the “Hold-on phone song” he put.
    Too bad, I did the tune.

    Burn in hell Sabam!

  • Zentor

    TPB.se is down pleas investigate im in the US Central TIme

    • Anonymous

      tpb.se is online ;) (but not thepiratebay)

      • Bigbigcars

        i knw right i cant reach it too.

    • moha

      its really annoying

  • ToddHoward

    TPB goes down! Another one bites the dust!

    • http://www.facebook.com/Spiker.Andrew Andrew Spiker

      @ToddHoward go fuck off

      @ everyone Is the TPB down? for you to?

      • Trespass

        It’s pirate time in Texas,
        The Pirate Bay is on line…

        Works here!

  • RIAA

    Yay!! FINALLY the TPB is down! Rejoice Pirates :D

    • http://www.facebook.com/ValhallaLegend Andrew Lee

      You suck ass at trolling ROFL

  • AtxThexGates

    Seriously, The RIAA, MPAA and MAFIAA as well as many other are just the same as criminal syndicates. They bribe people they steal from the artists and got more power than the country itself.

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  • Dex

    Fantastic, can we move on to the likes of IFPI, RIAA, MPAA, GEMA etc. after this?
    Maybe a job for Anonymous? :P

  • Hum

    I won’t be happy until no songwriter, no performer gets paid for the use of music. Music has no value. Just cause we want it doesn’t mean we should ever have to pay for it. Doesn’t matter if they want to be paid directly or through one of those alphabet soup organizations. It’s all corruption and robbery. Music belongs to the people, not the musicians. If they want to be paid they should go open a bakery or something. Music is free and that’s that. If you disagree you’re a troll.

    • Asdf

      So I’m a troll trolling a troll? Music has value, it comes from people’s heads and hearts and they can sell it if they want. It can be monetized like everything else. You want to live in a communist country, go move to North Korea.

      • http://twitter.com/FreePSDFinder FreePSDFinder

        go back to the RIAA…. Will ya???!!!

        • Asdf

          HMMMMM… where?

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  • James king

    The idea behind an authors rights organization is to see that artists are paid for what they do – it is there music/art – work and job. But what actually happens in real life is far from how it should be. In this case – sabam – are not there as a support to the artists. In fact the system they use works against art. Most beginning artists need support and helping them promote they art doesn’t happen. They (sabam) were given authority to make their own rules and place them within the legal system in Belgium. Making what they do actually legal. They are an aggressive commercial organization not protecting art and music but making money in every way possible – for themselves. Artists should consider using other means to earn their money for example become independent. Get a license via Creative Commons (it’s free) on their work or maybe some one would even consider setting up a new musicians/artists union where everyone pays into (small fee) and where the profit is used to support the grassroots bands and the professionals at the same time.
    Allowing both to grow and giving the much needed support across the board to all concerned. Art is not something that should be seen as a short term return business but is long term and socially and culturally very important. If young kids use art to express what they are feeling or experiencing due to social indifference instead of violence then we are all better off. And art will grow and expand it it gets the needed support from those who can give it. The artists also need to take responsibility for themselves and what they do and not let themselves be used by such organizations just because it is easy to use the channels that they know. Being a passive victim is not how it should be…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/VKI36PH5RENWX3BRUVLYEDZFTQ Joace

    I am a 27 years old doctor,mature and beautiful. and now i am seeking a good man who can give me real love, so i got a sername Andromeda2002 on Agedate.?òM, a nice and free place for younger women and older men,or older women and younger men, to interact with each other.Maybe you wanna check out or tell your friends.

  • Anonymous

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