The Avengers: Why Pirates Failed To Prevent A Box Office Record

Ernesto
May 8, 2012
309
movies,
piracy
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Despite the widespread availability of pirated releases, The Avengers just scored a record-breaking $200 million opening weekend at the box office. While some are baffled to see that piracy failed to crush the movie’s profits, it’s really not that surprising. Claiming a camcorded copy of a movie seriously impacts box office attendance is the same as arguing that concert bootlegs stop people from seeing artists on stage.

piracy A week before its premiere in US movie theaters, a camcorded version of The Avengers appeared online.

Immediately thousands of fans jumped on the release and according to figures collated by TorrentFreak, in the days that followed it was downloaded half a million times. While this may very well be a record for a “CAM” movie, it failed to exceed the download numbers of several other movies that were available in higher quality.

Record or not, the movie’s distributer Disney must have been terrified by this early release. However, this weekend the suits at the studio were able to breathe a sign of relief, or rather, start popping open the Champagne.

With more than $200 million in box office revenue, The Avengers had the most successful first weekend in movie history. It broke the record set by Harry Potter last year by more than $30 million, despite the “massive” piracy.

But is this really such a big surprise? Not when you look at the numbers.

Of all the people who downloaded a pirate copy of the film about 20% came from the US. This means that roughly 100,000 Americans have downloaded a copy online through BitTorrent. Now, IF all these people bought a movie ticket instead then box office revenue would be just 0.5% higher.

Not much of an impact, and even less when you consider that these “pirates” do not all count as a lost sale.

We don’t think that there are many movie fans who see a low quality camcorded version of a movie as a true alternative to watching a film in a movie theater. The two are totally different experiences, and not direct competition at all.

If anything, downloading a camcorded movie could be compared to downloading a low quality bootleg of a concert. People who download these are collectors, passionate fans, or just curious. But in no way do these bootlegs seriously hurt concert attendances.

The same might be said for advance leaks of games. These pre-release copies are often downloaded by tens of thousands of people, but not necessarily those who refuse to pay. The people who download these buggy and sometimes hardly playable games are often curious game fanatics who tend to buy the official game when it comes out.

The claim that camcorded films are killing the movie industry is nonsense and spending millions of dollars on anti-camcording technologies is simply not worth it.

But does this mean that piracy is not an issue for the movie industry at all? Well not so fast.

A recent study showed that the US box office is not suffering from movie piracy, but that there is a detrimental effect on international box office figures. The researchers attribute this impact to the wide release gaps, which sometimes result in a high quality DVD copy being available on pirate sites while a movie is still showing in theaters.

These high quality copies are more likely to “compete” with movie theater attendance and if a movie is not showing in local theaters at all, it definitely has the potential to impact future attendance.

This is even more true for the DVD-aftermarket and VOD sales. High quality pirated copies are direct competition and can impact revenues.

The challenge for the movie industry is to make legal offerings more appealing than pirated counterparts. Of course it may not always be able to compete with “free,” but there is still a lot of ground to make up when it comes to availability and quality of legal offerings.

But in no way are camcorded copies killing the US movie industry.

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Hahhaa

Saw it in 3D on the big screen and nearly had my ears blown.

Hahaha, still didn’t pay for it, was a free promo screening.

Me: 1, Hollywood: 0
- Hellscreamgold
  
  You’re a tard. SOMEONE, in SOME way, paid for it. Just not you.
  - Marley Gilliam
    
    I think he was just being silly. Chill out brah.
    - Anonymous
      
      One of best friend share his online work, he told me the that last couple of days, he got paid 1600$ through internet work, I was amazed that I would you like to provide the webpage ??http://startbytoday.blogspot.com
    - Anonymous
      
      This movie did well because it was done well, and Hollywood just gave the fans what they wanted. Something they are notorious failures at… Case in point: When is that Deadpool movie happening? Ryan Reynolds lies.
  - http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/740147-neurotech-hd.html#post5637502 Jay
    
    Just because someone paid for it doesn’t mean that the product was any less free for Hahhaa.
    
    It’s kinda silly to say that, “No, the movie isn’t free for you because someone else paid for it.” That makes no sense. True, just living and breathing accumulates cost, but that’s not a mean or average sum spread over every single activity. Experiences can be free. For instance, one needs food and water to survive, but that doesn’t make the act of breathing any less free.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Duncan/535485993 Paul Duncan
      
      ?_?
    - http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/740147-neurotech-hd.html#post5637502 Jay
      
      Hehe, lol.
    - Johannes
      
      “Me: 1, Hollywood: 0″, I think Hellscreamgold ment that Hollywood did not lose anything because he saw it for free…
  - ThatDCGuy
    
    TINSTAFL
    - NotActuallyRetentive
      
      I think you were trying for TANSTAAFL… Heinlein rules.
  - James
    
    You’re an angry cunt.
  - Anonymous
    
    For someone accusing another of being a “tard”, you’re sure making a tarded argument.
  - Monopoly
    
    Where is dislike ? :O
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=619986281 Muhammad Bilal Islam
    
    Cool guy over here throwing around middle-school insults. Tell me when exactly I should start pretending like I’m impressed?
  - Anonymous
    
    Its immerging period of technology and now a day’s Internet play an important role in everything life, You can work at your home, My Friend is doing work at home and last month he make 7500$ , The Further details are available at===>>??http://must2join.blogspot.com
  - Anonymous
    
    It’s amazing but some people is making cash on computer, Even 250$ in a day or more. My senior is working at laptop and last week he brought 2700$ to home, Did you tour this link===>>??http://must2join.blogspot.com
  - Anonymous
    
    a<!–put anything in here –>s Lee said I can’t believe that someone able to earn $4454 in one month on the computer. have you read this web page===>>??Must2join.blogspot.com
  - Yesey
    
    I love how you just repeated what he said, good job bro.
  - Anonymous
    
    just as Nancy responded I’m alarmed that some people able to make $4933 in one month on the computer. did you see this web page ===>>??http://meetfreelancer.blogspot.com/
  - Anonymous
    
    my roomate’s st ep-mot her brought ho me $1 3342 the previous mo nth. s he g ets pa id on the computer and bought a $369300 condo. All she did was get lucky and profit by the advice uncove red on this web page ===>> ?????? http://job2seek.blogspot.com
  - Pienug
    
    Hellscreamgold…. you never go full retard. NEVER.
- None
  
  And now you’re going around advertising it for them for free.
- Anonymous
  
  One of best friend share his online work, he told me the that last couple of days, he got paid 1600$ through internet work, I was amazed that I would you like to provide the webpage ??http://startbytoday.blogspot.com
- Anonymous
  
  One of best friend share his online work, he told me the that last couple of days, he got paid 1600$ through internet work, I was amazed that I would you like to provide the webpage ??http://startbytoday.blogspot.com
- Guest
  
  So, what’s the difference between seeing The Avengers at a free promo screening and pirating it?
  
  Please tell me, Hollywood.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=619986281 Muhammad Bilal Islam
  
  Why support a movie that you enjoy? That’s insanity!
  - Nobody
    
    Like they are the ones that need our support.
- Dave
  
  I was one of the ones who downloaded the cam version but I had full intentions of watching in in theater, I just couldn’t wait. I ended up watching it in theaters twice. People don’t understand that pirated movies don’t necessarily replace watching them in theaters (as this article has rightly stated).
  - Ella
    
    I didn the opposite. I saw it twice in the theater and I loved it so much that I downloaded a camrip. I never do that (I only did it once before) because the quality is terrible and it is like…30% of the experience. I am going to see it tomorrow again but this helps me with waiting :-)) I don´t understand how can somebody watch just a camrip.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Belinda-Short/726896152 Belinda Short
    
    This was my argument. Of _all_ of the people I know that would consider pirating this, all of them have already seen the movie in theatres at least once.
- Anonymous
  
  Now a day’s everyone want to make some extra cash, Working at Internet is the best way and can bring you some extra cash, My elder brother is doing work at computer and last week he make 2800$, Move ahead for more info===>>??http://freelancer111.blogspot.com
- An0nYm0uS
  
  Didn’t this movie actually hit 442.6million opening weekend not 200million?
  To what I understand its a record breaker.
FUCK

I hate the MPAA
whoImIs

What’s that? Piracy directly positively affects movie ticket sales!? I mean, the figures speak for themselves here, folks!
whoImIs

What’s that? Piracy directly positively affects movie ticket sales!? I mean, the figures speak for themselves here, folks!
- Mikethediver@gmail.com
  
  People are not going to movie theaters anymore because people just dont give a shit anymore. Ticket sales keep dropping because with each passing day we have less reasons to leave our houses. Netflix + PS3′s Youtube + TV + DVD’s + a million other things, plus other social options, bars, clubs, parties.
  
  Before, movies were the only thing you could really do more often than not, socially.
  
  We have content at or fingertips at home, I have a 47″ full HD tv and I am a movie buff. I will never watch a cam, but I will watch blu rays which for me more often that not will suffice in place of a movie theater experience.
  
  Besides, I was raised in India and theaters in the US suck. Really shitty popcorn where you got to butter it yourself, not to mention everything is insanely expensive. And im talking shitty food and supermarket candy.
  
  Going to the movies and getting snacks comes out to $40. Why in gods name would I go all the way to the cinema unless I was absolutely dying to see a movie I was looking forward to.
  
  I dont care for 3D but got my ass to the theater for Avatar, Tron and Jackass 3D.
  
  Also the movies that come out are more or less mediocre, bar the one off great one.
  
  Thats why the movie industry’s precious moneybags arent pouring in as much as they would like.
  
  Douchebags count the loss of potential clients as actual losses.
  
  So yeah, piracy is just their scapegoat.
  
  Once these asshole lobbyist political types eliminate or have us all in cages, then they will turn on themselves. That should be fun.
  - masterdebater
    
    You say “People are not going to movie theaters anymore…” As your response to an article that clearly stated that this movie broke all records for opening weekend sales….your opening statement is, unfortunately, invalid.
    - Calvints3
      
      one blockbuster does not negate the years of trending towards home entertainment and the rise of what he stated: netflix, blu rays, full hd surround sound at home, more competition for our entertainment money, the exorbitant prices at the theatre, etc…
    - The guy who dated your Mom
      
      Broke records? According to my figures the price was increased at the theater… All in all, I’m a professional in the industry and I see declining viewers alongside increasing ticket costs. This results in modern theater goers to pick which (1) movie they will see over multiple movie dates. As for smashing records, count the number of tickets and ill believe it, but stay away from the $$revenues because it just not believable.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Carson-Hutchison/100001031706738 Carson Hutchison
      
      At: The guy who dated your Mom
      
      A professional in the industry? I’m not saying that you’re lying, but that means nothing to me, it could mean that you’ve been working at the local theater in your home town for the last 10 years, which would indeed make you a professional, but not an industry wide professional, on the matter at hand I agree with masterdebater, why? because I know what he is saying is true, again you ask why? because nothing beats heading to the movies and hanging out with friends, regardless of your age.
      
      In fact a common thing I do, is head to the movies with friends and then head back the apartment and play magic the gathering, and I know a quite large and growing number of people who are doing the same thing (minus the magic part), especially during the summer months.
      
      Contrary to popular belief going to the movies is becoming awesome again.
    - Guest
      
      The guy certainly has a point though. I’d consider going to movies if a single ticket didn’t cost more than I make in an hour. To go to one on a date or whatever means, around here, about twelve dollars each for a ticket, plus a five dollar soda, and equally expensive popcorn, and suddenly I’ve spent the majority of a day’s pay on a couple of hours entertainment. And then the movie is usually mediocre, and people won’t shut the hell up. In the alternative, I could pirate a copy, and not have to get out of bed or put on pants.
  - PS3sSuckBalls
    
    I got rid of my POS PS3 because of the stupid Cinavia crap.
    - SnowyRetreat
      
      Apple TV with Plex client FTW!
    - Anonymous
      
      I still have my PS3 but its the least used thing connected to the TV. Of course, Sony being a big part of the media cartel, it’s obvious they would add Cinavia support. Luckily the low cost media players are ignoring it.
  - Therraiult_3
    
    I am a manager at a theater that is 3 years old. I’ve been there for all 3 years. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Our attendance has only risen, consistently across the board, even on bad movies like 21 Jump Street. The economy has actually driven people back into theaters because it’s still one of the cheapest forms of social entertainment. The largest hit for the entertainment industry has actually been in after market sales (DVD, Blue Ray). This year is looking to be even better with Prometheus, Spiderman, Batman, The Hobbit, Twilight, etc. Please don’t just rant about things of which you have no clue.
    - Anonymous
      
      Combo breaker! Nothing thwarts an Internet argument faster than real experience and facts. Damn you!
    - GuySmiley
      
      Yeah im unsure where he goes to the theatre. The one I went to cost less to see the movie in 3d than it cost me years ago to see star wars episode 1 etc…
  - Sir_Lennon
    
    Oh damn…. 47 inch? You must be friggin Bill Gates. – Telling us how you own a small TV (that you obviously think is HUGE!!!!) adds no value to the comment, so you’re just trying to brag.
    - Niggers
      
      Wat, STFU GTFO
    - Frans
      
      Troll much, asshole? What you’re claiming that he’s doing is EXACTLY what you’re doing with that comment. And he isn’t even bragging, he’s making a point.
      
      You’re just bragging about your own tv claiming that 47″ is a small tv. Go watch your “huge” 55″ tv and stop bothering us.
  - Trueflight_eq2
    
    Here’s a thought, maybe ticket sales were down because all of the movies that were being offered suck. People aren’t stupid, they aren’t going to pay to see crap. A good movie comes along and despite piracy, its a smash hit. What does that tell you?
  - JC
    
    Here, folks. Rather than bitching back and forth and proclaiming insider status and so on, just use the handy dandy internet you’re already sitting on to look at the stats for number of tickets sold per year since 1995.
    
    Looks like it’s declined a bit since a high in 2002, but still higher of late than in 1995. Of course, the quality of movies released is going to be a big factor. Overall, no indication that the theater market is collapsing. It’ll be interesting to see if that 2012 estimate holds or if it ends up higher. There are a number of highly anticipated movies coming out this year, and some of them will likely be quite good and do excellent business (Dark Knight Rises, The Hobbit, etc.)
    
    http://www.the-numbers.com/market/
  - Whydoineedanemailaddress
    
    It’s simple: make a good movie and people will come out to see it.
    
    Most of the crap the Hollywood spews is recycled garbage wrapped in a pretty shell. It’s like decorating a Chevette with Lamborghini badges: it’s still a Chevy. People aren’t stupid and won’t waste their money on Hollywood’s half-hearted attempts at entertainment. Most of us choose to wait until they put out a product we actually like before spending our money. History has proven that when they make a good product they do well and when they put out shit they get shit in return. Piracy has nothing to do with it.
- harry krishna
  
  there’s an echo in here
  - N1
    
    there’s an echo in here
    - Marcus Brunnmeier
      
      echo in here
    - Barry Krishna
      
      There’s an echo in here?
    - oche
      
      in here there’s an echo
    - Guest
      
      Yo dawg, I heard you like echos so I put an echo in your echo so you can echo while you echo.
- http://twitter.com/erikqj Erik Q.J.
  
  I don’t think piracy affects movie sales much at all. If I think the movie is really good, and I have the time, opportunity and energy, I’ll always choose to see it in the theater. If I don’t have those, I wouldn’t have seen it in the theater anyway, piracy or not. I think the same is true for most.
  
  As for DVD sales, the article is right that piracy is in direct competition. However, who would buy as many DVDs as they download movies? I certainly wouldn’t. In fact, I buy more DVDs now than before piracy. I even buy movies that I’ve downloaded in high quality, if they’re really good. That was my principle before piracy, and I doubt that it would’ve changed much, piracy or no. Then there’s pay-per-view; if it’s available, and I feel confident that it won’t be a lousy movie, it’s my preferred choice.
  
  All in all, I pay for more movies now than ever, in the box office, on DVD, and on pay-per-view. My willingness to watch legally on the Net is high; all they have to do is provide me with competitive quality. I know for a fact that I’m not alone in that.
  
  Of course, there are those who pirate only for the savings. However, they either don’t have the money, or are so stingy that nothing could get them to pay. They don’t affect anyone’s profits much, either.
  
  All in all, to some degree, piracy works as free advertizing, but mostly it has no effect at all, that I can think of. Good movies do well, they did before, they still do, and they will in the future.
http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

I simply LOVE it when we so-called ‘pirates’, filesharers, thieves (call us wtf you want) can provide evidence that our online filesharing activities do NOT adversely affect attendances at movies, the sale of ‘official’ DVD’s and the overall profits of the evil “content industry” who merely point, blame & attack.

Facts are always far better than knee-jerk reactions to rumour, gossip & scandal you demented MAFIAA fucktards.

Now get out our face, get out our Courts and go back to creating quality shit we want to buy.
- Andrew Lee
  
  Well before I decided to stop watching films I would stream if it beat the theater release date. Still I went to the movies to watch. Even if it was a DVD SCR I still went because my big screen tv still does not compare to the theaters.
  
  If I owned a theater sized tv it would be a different story.
  - asdf
    
    Ohh, is this a sneak peek into the future here? Hollywood calling on a ban on theatre sized TVs?
Piercing_male

I wanted to see the new Star Trek movie, got impatient as it was released in the UK after the US, by a month, so watched a cam rip. Loved it so much (bar the obvious bits missing in the edit and some flaws in dialogue) that I still went to see it in the cinema to revel in the glory, and rare self-indulgent treat, that is the large screen.

The movie industry needs to wake up to the fact that in this day and age they need to do a same day global release; as does the TV companies when they have a series that has taken off globally, even if this means releasing it at a stupid o-clock time to be recorded and watched later.

The reason the of-touted “hurt locker” did so badly is that it was crap made for critics… it only picked up on torrents because people wanted to see what all the critical fuss was about, then saw that it was crap so didn’t go to the movie house and didn’t subsequently buy the DVD.
- Sketch
  
  well said
- Mikethediver
  
  Hurt Locker was so overrated. Snorefest, poorly made war film that felt like a bad Call of Duty ripoff.
  
  Doesnt even hold a candle to the likes of Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, Platoon.
  
  I too downloaded it, cause I would never go to the theater to see it.
Mscheetham

Just to point out, most people I know who watch pirated movies don’t download themselves, they get from the ‘guy at work’ or dodgy market stalls. It’s easy to think that 100,000 downloads results in 100,000 views. My impression based on my circle of friends is one download results in many more separate people watching the film.
- http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes
  
  I’ve no problem with viewing a copy from ‘the guy at work’, but buying a copy from the guy selling them in a “dodgy market stall” is HIGHLY objectionable, illegal, and should be discouraged by both the evil “content industry” and fellow filesharers/pirates.
  
  I personally wouldn’t go so far as to call Police on these guys, but I certainly wouldn’t buy anything from them under any circumstances whatsoever – and I strongly advise you don’t either.
  
  After all, we Pirates have our ethics and integrity to protect yeah?
  - Fakename
    
    I have a friend who would have gone to the the opening night show, but he unfortunately is a civilian DOD employee who got shipped to Iraq the week before release. won’t be back state side untill Oct.
    his plan? pick up a(probably cammed) copy “at the local hadji-mart” while he’s over there…
    - Anyone
      
      with bad internet that surely is an option in those countries
      but I guess rob meant more “in the west”
  - Logos
    
    If they sell it for less, and there aren’t any copies available online, then I don’t really care if I buy my copy from a “dodgy market stall”. It’s all about who can offer the best deal. If the best deal is free from a filesharing site, awesome! If it’s not available there, then I just move to the next cheapest source until I find what I want.
    - Brackish24
      
      “buying” a burnt copy of a movie is double stealing. Technically you are stealing from the movie studio, then you are stealing from the guy who takes his own (uncompensated at that)time to encode and upload the movie. It’s called filesharing for a reason. People that download from the Internet and make a profit should be the ones targeted, not the general community of filesharers.
    - Anyone
      
      you are not stealing from the movie studio
    - asdf
      
      When Rob mentioned ethics I think he also meant something along the lines that buying counterfeit shit may be directly or indirectly financing organized crime. Well, at least that’s what happens here where I live (not in the US, but I’d be surprised if this sort of thing did not happen in the US).
    - Logos
      
      @ca0596c62cdb2a268d088cc3facf39d1:disqus
      
      Really, it’s stealing? Have you been on this site long? Do you know what the definition of “stealing” is? I have not taken any property from anyone, no one is deprived, so it is not stealing. Just because someone has spent time does not mean they have earned money. That’s the basis of filesharing.
      
      @6a1808b3927634bbc70574c224f498a3:disqus
      
      That is a possibility, but I doubt it. The websites don’t seem to have any connection to each other that I can see, but I could easily be wrong. Then again, I buy weed, which supports much more organized crime than digital counterfeiting, so this would be a silly thing for me to draw the line at.
    - Guest
      
      @ Brackish
      
      Buying(why did you put that in quotes?) a burnt copy of a movie isn’t stealing in any sense, technically or otherwise. Money doesn’t magically fly out a studio exec’s pockets or an uploader’s pockets when you buy a 99 cent pirate copy of Assblasters 6000.
      
      Just out of curiosity, what In god’s name do you think you’d be stealing from the uploader?
    - mangaman
      
      logos as you probably already know.anything the shaddy guy has is on the internet if you look hard enough.and believe it or not “real” pirates don’t make you pay for it.
    - Logos
      
      ”logos as you probably already know.anything the shaddy guy has is on the
      internet if you look hard enough.and believe it or not “real” pirates
      don’t make you pay for it.”
      
      It is, but it could easily take me more than an hour to find. If it costs me 5 dollars at the first website (not unreasonable), and I’d have to spend over an hour to find it for free, then I’m working for less than the minimum wage when I’m searching for it. That would be silly.
      
      Free is overrated if it takes me too much work to accomplish it. My time is worth something to me, and since I don’t particularly like trying to find what I want to play/watch, I’m perfectly to spring for the $5.
    - http://twitter.com/erikqj Erik Q.J.
      
      Really? I’d buy the official release, even if it was just to avoid the virus hazard. You download a file, it’s dormant until you activate it. You stick a DVD into your viewing platform (not only PCs), and you loose that control. At least keep your anti-virus up to date!
      
      Selling copies obtained from file-sharing is a morally doubly dubious thing to do. It places you outside both relevant moral codes. You don’t hold the idea of proprietary information as a value, nor do you respect the p2p values of consumer rights and freedom of information. An exception only for those who sell for the cost the blank disk.
      
      There’s also the fact that if the studio and distributer actually manages to create a product that’s competitive or superior to the alternative on all but price, and the price isn’t completely ridiculous, you should pay. Really. Certainly if you can afford it.
  - PoorPirate
    
    I don’t find it highly objectionable at all. I live in one of the poorer parts of Britain and most people don’t have a PC or internet connection. Their only chance of watching pirated content is to buy it or get someone else to make them a DVD.
    
    Of course you wouldn’t buy anthing from such sellers, but that’s beause you have no reason to do so. If you didn’t have a way to aquire pirated movies yourself and was too poor to buy an original DVD, would you pay for someone else to get it for you?
    
    What you’re saying is based on class ignorance.
    - Guest
      
      You’re describing piracy not file sharing, big difference. I understand there’s parts of the world where piracy might be necessary. Other than that, someone’s too poor to buy a proper release but they have something to play it on? Priorities. I want a Porsche but I can’t afford it. Maybe I can pay somebody to get one for me.
  - Guest
    
    “but buying a copy from the guy selling them in a “dodgy market stall” is HIGHLY objectionable, illegal, and should be discouraged by both the evil “content industry” and fellow filesharers/pirates.”Why? I don’t see what the problem is. Physical bootlegs only exist because the price of legit movies is out of touch with the local economy. As a response to this, bootleggers step up and sell goods at a price that’s *in touch* with the local economy. That’s how the free market works.Want to eradicate bootleggers overnight? Then tell the industry to lower their fucking prices so that people no longer have to turn to the bootleggers. Tell them to compete like a bunch of fucking capitalists.
    - Guest
      
      Thanks, Disqus. But let’s try that again. This time with paragraphs.
      
      “but buying a copy from the guy selling them in a “dodgy market stall” is HIGHLY objectionable, illegal, and should be discouraged by both the evil “content industry” and fellow filesharers/pirates.”
      Why? I don’t see what the problem is. Physical bootlegs only exist because the price of legit movies is out of touch with the local economy. As a response to this, bootleggers step up and sell goods at a price that’s *in touch* with the local economy. That’s how the free market works.Want to eradicate bootleggers overnight? Then tell the industry to lower their fucking prices so that people no longer have to turn to the bootleggers. Tell them to compete like a bunch of fucking capitalists.
    - Guest
      
      Well, okay, Disqus is officially a steaming piece of shit. I don’t care if I’m triple posting, you son of a bitch, I will have my paragraphs.
      
      “but buying a copy from the guy selling them in a “dodgy market stall” is HIGHLY objectionable, illegal, and should be discouraged by both the evil “content industry” and fellow filesharers/pirates”
      
      Why? I don’t see that the problem is. Physical bootlegs can only exist because the price of legit movies is out of touch with the local economy. As a response to this, bootleggers step up and sell goods at a price that’s *in touch* with the local economy.
      
      That’s how the free market works.
      
      Want to eradicate bootleggers overnight? Then tell the industry to lower their fucking prices so that people no longer have to turn to the bootleggers. Tell them to compete like a bunch of fucking capitalists.
- Rhetoicalmuffin
  
  you do know that the exact opposite can be true.i know tons of people who download things and don’t watch them at all.
john doe

I doubt there would be any record if the Internet was the locked and censored world that Hollywood wish it was.
john doe

It’s probably the free and fast flowing of files that make profits like this possible. Because it makes people TALK about it.

Good products PROFIT from filesharing.
chris

Also, The Avengers is more about the world withing the movie than the story so it’s more rewatchable.
The Dark Cynic

Not so fast. The box office receipts are $200 million gross. By the time the studio runs the numbers through their Hollywood accountants, they’ll be claiming a net loss of $50 million.
- townie2
  
  but that is just what they made their opening weekend, this will play in theaters for months yet, then there’s the DVD sales later.
  - The Dark Cynic
    
    Doesn’t matter. The film’s entire run could gross $500 million and they’ll still claim a loss:
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting
    - http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett
      
      in that case the loss is normal business. they can not blame that on consumers for pirating. and if they did, they are just stupid
    - Anyone
      
      they do blame that on piracy
    - FinalApokylypse
      
      Actually if you look at Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (16th highest grossing film of all time at $939 million) which on a leaked receipt shows a net loss of $167 million it shows how ridiculous their claims get..
NiceCamsBaby

A prime reason for ‘Avengers’ success is that it was released overseas BEFORE the US. The distributor surely knows that Russian CAMs would result (which is what happened). Yet they captured the ‘foreign’ opening market first which actually created more ‘buzz’ for the pending US opening market.

One may argue that the pirated foreign CAMs actually HELPED the blistering US opening ticket sales.

The CAMs are part of the OVERALL MARKETING STRATEGY!
- Real3D
  
  YES.
  
  The foreign CAMs HELPED the US ticket sales.
  
  CAMs should be decriminalized (but not legalized – if they were legal it wouldn’t be FUN anymore to ‘sneak’ a CAM into a theater).
  
  SO WHAT’S NEXT you may ask? What about the weeks ahead? How does Disney maximize it’s TOTAL ticket sales?
  
  They release (leak) their own torrent with a (moderately decent quality) copy of ‘Avengers’ onto the net. At the very end of the vid file they inlude a digital barcode image as a $5.00 off coupon for 3D theater ticket.
  
  ——
  Thank You for your download. Did you like this movie?
  Here’s a $5.00 coupon to see it in REAL 3D at the theater.
  ——
  
  Now this creates INSANE buzz in the news cycle (CNN goes psycho) and ALSO they track coupon barcode scan demographics from all the theaters.
  
  Heck, they can then SQUEEZE every last drop of ticket sales from the market this way while pioneering a ‘new way’ of embracing (banking) on digital marketing.
  
  Everybody wins (expect the producers of shitty movies).
  - Anonymous
    
    I could actually see that working out. Given people’s slightly wacky purchase habits, a free coupon is far more likely to get someone to put another 20$ on the table than most other forms of advertising available.
    
    Suddenly I hope the MPAA keeps on being dumb. I can imagine a TPB filled with film downloads, all with the digital equivalent of a cut-out coupon attached for everything from tonail ointment to movie tickets…Do Not Want!
    - AnnoyingMess
      
      I think Kim Dotcom’s in on this ‘MegaCooPonSpiracy’
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UccqyBp946A
Guest

http://is.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pages/ISG/documents/DavidWaterman_sevilla-movies-2011-final.pdf
Anonymous

a couple of points.

the unavailability of a movie in a country is what drives downloads. if the movie was released at the same time, everywhere so people could go to watch it, they would be less inclined to download it.
as stated, not all downloads equal a lost sale. however, a lot of downloads promote sales that would otherwise not have happened. those sales may be box office or disk or both. like many other people, i have downloaded a movie and after watching what i was expecting to be crap, enjoyed it and bought the disk.

the entertainment industries expect everyone to flock to the cinema to watch whatever they put out, good or bad. look at the hype for John Carter and what a heap of shit! it’s the only industry that i am aware of that when buying something (forget about the cinema side), you get no trial and no option of a refund if it isn’t what was expected, with the preview put out being the best 30 seconds of the whole movie! hardly a fair comparison, is it?
JohnD

Check this out. Explains everything

http://is.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pages/ISG/documents/DavidWaterman_sevilla-movies-2011-final.pdf
Paui3

a good way to increase income for the movie companies is to make BETTER MOVIES!!! if it’s good enough a true movie fanatic will go and buy them!
Commoner

MAFIAA scumbag must come up to their sense by now. I mean, come on if it’s a good movie it will do good by itself if it is a crap movie, even if you paying me to watch em I am not interested too. No, seriously. Blaming on us “pirate”?? Bah…
Reiks

Of course watching a movie on your PC is not one bit comparable to watching it in a movie theatre, heck, I’ve even downloaded movies and then went to cinemas to see them because I’ve liked them so much (much better, if I’ve seen it before, I know wether I’m gonna waste my money seeing it on the big screen or not). No matter how many “pirates” there are, people will always go to the cinema’s to watch movies, I mean, watching a movie on your small pc screen, with tiny speakers… compared to a movie theatre, with it’s huge screen, deafening sound (although downloading it means you can pause to get more snacks :P). It’s been 2 years since I’ve been to the cinema (oh maternity…), I’ve downloaded plenty of movies but damn I miss going to the cinema ):
- Danny
  
  Get yourself a big TV and a decent surround sound setup.
  Much better than the cinema any day of the week!
Rddjzjac

0.5% is $1,000,000

…just saying.
- Guest
  
  It doesn’t matter. You can’t prove that the 100,000 U.S. downloaders didn’t also buy tickets and see it in theaters. Without that proof, the numbers are worthless.
  
  To prove lost sales you actually have to prove lost sales.
  - anuvab1911
    
    Exactly,you just don’t cry claiming that i have lost [Ticket Value]*100000 in sales.That’s not justified.
TjSmith365

I download a cam copy. And then I watched it twice for the 6 hours I was waiting in line for the movie. Big screen theater quality of a good movie. It will beet the cam any day.
- Andrew Hatcher
  
  FFS, humanity depresses me.
- http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett
  
  twice? did you some how forget what happened the first time around.
  - asdf
    
    Most people do forget some of what they experience. Do you remember everything that has ever happened to you? If you do, congratulations, you have mental problems.
    - http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett
      
      but seriously a 2 hour film back to back, in the queu that your gonna watch anyways lol
Quality b4 Quantity

The reason their sales are down and piracy is still worth while is because of the shit that they are pumping out, like Chronicle big hype but imo a bag of shit. I watch downloaded films because i hate wasting money on rubbish, BUT! if i like the film i will go and buy it on Blu Ray. I do not go to the theatre and for probably the same reason as a lot of the missing ticket sales is because i have a home theatre system that i love, and to sit in the comfort of my lounge and watch my great quality blu ray in peace to me is far more important.
- Gghgh
  
  yes! that,, exactly. {just listen to your audience hollywood. and stop selling bull-shit}
John Space

Bear also in mind that comic book nerds are paying twice or thrice or even more times to watch this movie.
Andrew Hatcher

Why would anyone want to watch a shite camcorder version of a film anyway?

Oh yeah, piss-stinking basement dwellers, that’s who.
- Margaret T Hatcher
  
  Yes, that’s right. All of us in the file-sharing community are piss-stinking basement dwellers. Perhaps it’s a good thing we don’t go to your beautiful palatial cinemas – we’d drive away all of your nice clean attractive paying customers.
  
  Oh hang on, we ARE your paying customers… or rather, we WERE your paying customers until you started telling us that we stink of piss. Bye bye MAFIAA shill.
  - Piss
    
    I left my ‘piss-stinking’ apartment in Brooklyn
    Walked down my ‘piss-stinking’ block to the ‘piss-stinking’ subway station
    Got on the ‘piss-stinking’ train to another ‘piss-stinking’ station
    Walk up some ‘piss-stinking’ stairs to the ‘piss-stinking’ street
    Then to the ‘piss-stinking’ Theater. Took a piss
    
    Pissed away $18 fuggin bucks on a ticket
    Ordered some $8 popcorn with yellow (piss colored) oily shit on it
    Sat in a pissed-on seat on a sticky ‘piss-stinking’ floor
    Watched the movie (got pissed on a bottle of Heni too)
    All-in-all, Had a pisser
    
    I LOVE (‘piss-stinking’) NEW YORK!
  - UranusYum
    
    Andrew didn’t call the whole filesharing community “piss-stinking basement dwellers”, no, he called PEOPLE WHO WATCH CAMs piss stinking basement dwellers.
    
    And he’s right – anyone who watches a CAM is a fucking idiot.
    
    DVDRIP or better, or nothing. You have to wait a few more weeks… waa waa waa my life is incomplete with out a wierdly-framed, badly-lit, shit-sounding, inferior copy of a film I DON’T WANT TO SEE with the friends I don’t have.
    
    Fuck off and die alone in a piss-stained basement.
    - IamKillingMyselfNow
      
      IamKillingMyselfNow
    - Guest
      
      Or maybe people download cams because they care more about the actual content of a movie than they do about raw picture and sound quality.
      
      If you’re jizzing yourself over technical superficiality like that, then I think you’re the one more likely to be living in a piss-stained basement.
    - GrumpyD
      
      I am not sure any one actually watches a full cam (start ,,missing bits Finish) & to say a DVDRip comes a few weeks later well is misleading ,,take Sherlock Holmes 2 most saw it in late December 2011= UK dvd
      Release date: 14-05-2012
    - Christophe Thomas
      
      you called me a fucking idiot – can we meet on a dark street corner one of those days ?
  - Nero_me2003
    
    So true. My thoughts exactly! …. oh wait…. you pirate!! LOL just kidding.
Luckyd2039

I don’t go to the movie theater, because I can’t stand the people in them. I wait to the movies come out on DVD.

Who wants to be in a room with a bunch of people talking, playing with their phones and/or Ipads?
Calumais

i went to the cinema to watched it , i will download the movie when it come in good quality , and i will buy the blue-ray when available … pirate maybe , but i am still paying for movies , so stick it up MPAA !
Cavelord

What a bunch of tripe. Just because a movie makes a lot of money, it’s not because the movie Industry stopped rampant piracy, or that pirates downloaded and shared it with there friends, and they all loved the “crappy” version of the movie, so they decided to go watch it, but because it is good….nothing else.
- http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett
  
  you really have missed what was said in this article
- Guest
  
  Stars Wars Episode 1 made a shit ton of money. So according to your logic, Star Wars Episode 1 = one of the greatest movies ever.
  
  I believe I just killed your argument.
  - Anonymous
    
    “Star Wars 1″ does not exist. Only a cheap badly made ripoff of movies 4-6 which should never have seen the light of day.
Anon

1) there was and still is no watchable Avengers cam available. I’ve seen really “professional” cams in the past (the few that I downloaded), but those that are currently available suck. Anti-Camcording Campaign taking effect?

2) comparing bootlegs of games, music and movies is not fair, they are such different topics.
- http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett
  
  you need to understand that many that are now doing these cams, are very inexperienced in how to capture. the nes that did capture spot on quality, had years of experience built up and even had support. today its more of a case of capture what they can without getting noticed, and because of the crack down on imagine etc, many are more cautious than before. comparing bootlegs on different items you say isnt fair, yet its actually the true view and practices of all of them in the same field which is piracy.
- HeyNonAnon
  
  1) Do you want the link?
  
  2) That usually doesn’t stop the MAFIAA – they’re always lumping file-sharing and counterfeiting together as though they’re the same topic.
http://www.twitter.com/DarkRyoushii Adrian Mace

Just curious, why doesn’t someone make a steam for media? I know loads of people who buy steam games purely because they are on sale at the time – regardless if they are going to play them later or not. I don’t mean universal or one particular company brings out a digital download service, because that’s already been said and done, but I mean that a new company comes to the table, implements everything steam has but for movies and TV shows, maybe even music. Implements the friends list, the ‘playing together’ features to ‘join in’ with your friends and watch the same movie / TV episode depending on if you both have it and get licences from all kinds of companies. Make this service so popular that publishers WANT to have their media on this service. Then get the TV companies to bring out TVs with functionality to connect to your “Steam-a-like” service account and stream or download (depending on the storage available) the media that is on your account, or Media players like the WDTV Live to add it.

Set up 4 packs and have weekly deals. Basically steam is digital distribution done right, why doesn’t everyone go and copy it already!

EDIT: AND MOST IMPORTANTLY MAKE IT AS GLOBAL AS POSSIBLE because any money is good money, try and get this service to as many people as possible while the internet remains as unrestricted as it is.
- Anonymous
  
  Because the developers who release games on Steam are usually reasonable people?
  
  Here’s a clue. In order to get spotify rolling at all it took six years worth of beating out and signing contracts and license rights in a universal slugfest with all license holders screaming “more! MORE!!” just to get the ball started. In a small country like sweden.
  
  In every other country where spotify has tried to start up the process has been the same. Now, bear in mind that this merely concerns music. Imagine the hue-and-cry which results from trying to put the MOVIE production crew from hollywood into the same room.
  
  In Sweden there was one attempt made. Voddler. It was an instant flop. Basically it can’t compete with even the local video rental store for either content or convenience.
  
  With games on steam it’s comparably simple. The developers fall over themselves to provide games packaged to the steam standard. With Spotify (and to an even greater degree, Voddler) trying to broker a deal is like pulling out teeth while the license holders all bicker over who should get more.
  
  It isn’t that such solutions haven’t been attempted. It’s that the MPAA has categorically spent a lot of resources trying to prevent it from happening.
  - http://www.twitter.com/DarkRyoushii Adrian Mace
    
    So essentially they are complaining rather than taking the tried and true method and making potentially more than what they are currently. wow..
    - Anyone
      
      yes
      they also try to kill the proven to be working alternative to piracy like netflix with longer delays and higher fees
      
      they rather bitch and complain and bully people instead of accepting the cash that is handed to them
    - http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett
      
      essentially a LOT of them , don’t like it one bit when the consumer knows how to do things more than they do, or the fact the consumer is pretty much demanding a certain way of delivery and the companies dont like coming away from their archaic methods of business. as been proven recently by netflix, even though many hate NF, it shows that even with money thrown at the big dogs in the industry, NF couldnt get anywhere. so it shows its not about money when they all claim they always lose out due to piracy, but actually down to control and making more money from the control they have over the content.
    - Anonymous
      
      Succintly put.
      
      Yes. That is exactly what they are doing.
      
      There’s more, of course.
      
      1) The margin of a CD sale is incredible. Once every cost is covered the media corporations are left with a 95% gross margin. Gross Margin on digital sales is far less. That being the case every company used to raking in cash through physical sales sees any alternative as the enemy.
      
      2) Far more importantly – every time an artist chooses to self-publish it’s a nail in the coffin for the entire industry. They are used to being able to sign any up-and-coming artist into a four year contract where they OWN the artist like an indentured serf and can control him/her as they will. The internet has for most sectors such as promotioning and campaigning rendered most of what the labels do completely obsolete. Today they are a hideously expensive and very poor alternative for the artists. When they see any means an artist can use to mass-market him/herself the industry as a whole stands up and screams “Do Not Want!!”
      
      The industry won’t die due to piracy. But a case can be made that they are today for the larger part obsolete. Much like the stagecoach driver guilds when the automobile was invented, they are fighting for their very survival. And that survival seems unlikely while the “Internet” exists at all.
      
      Which is why SONY Music’s CEO managed to blurt out that from his viewpoint nothing good ever came from the internet. That’s the way they think.
mikey

I cannot understand why releases aren’t global yet. also, to me it makes a lot more sense to sell DVDs of the movie at the exit – that is the time people are most likely to buy the DVD with all the extras, isn’t it?
- http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett
  
  ”I cannot understand why releases aren’t global yet” as i have stated in ym write up http://www.scribd.com/doc/76156718/Piracy-Guide-to-How-It-Can-Work-for-All its all about copyright monopoly. IE MONEY
Anonymous

OK well that makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
Only-Privacy.tk
Anonymous

Why didnt it get pirated? cause unlike movies for the past 5 years this was actually 100% deserving of my money.
- YARIGHT
  
  you on crack the pirated cam came out a week before hand and thus proves your NOT a pirate but a shill
  - Anonymous
    
    1.Don’t watch CAM’s
    
    2.Did you just say I was a shill for going and paying to watch this movie? What so i’m wrong for supporting a good movie? I have downloaded tons of movies because I was either too broke or didn’t think they deserved my money. After watching Skyline then seeing them bring out 3 more movies that would’ve been sequels but weren’t and the TV show that seems to tie in but doesn’t….it made me just fed up with the film industry, but this movie was worth it.
Blah blah and bla

DVD sales is entirely a different story, no?
Mwhahaha

Cos it’s a great film. I know I’ll be buying it on DVD when it gets to a reasonable price. Quality is worth buying and rewarding.
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Weaponstheyfear

I paid to see it twice, once in 3D. They think piracy is about getting shit for free, when that’s not the case, atleast not for me. If I download something, and it’s good, fuck it, I will pay for it if I can afford it. The problem though, is two tickets cost me roughly $30, and pin an additional $13 per viewing for a drink and some fucking popcorn. $56 to see a movie twice. When will these dicks learn and why not allow at home streaming of new movies at 2-3% less (what the theater would make off the movie) than the ticket price a day or two after theater release? Someone in Hollywood needs to step up.
- Anonymous
  
  Here’s the thing… you reference “what the theater would make off the movie”, but theaters don’t make money on the movies they show. They make money on the concessions, hence the $13 per viewing for a drink and effing popcorn. *That* is their take, which is why it costs so much.
http://www.KingSidharth.com King Sidharth

We should to an email campaign to MPAA. Saying:

We tried hard to make this movie fail. But we failed. Sorry.

Yours,Pirates.
- Anonymous
  
  Even though you’re half kidding about that, they do see piracy as attempts to make them fail. But it’s never been about that. If anything fails, it’s very rarely because it is pirated. It’s usually because it’s garbage. Bad writing, bad actors, bad CGI. Something just stinks about it. I have about 30 movies that I own that I only watch once. I have about 5 or 10 more that I’ll watch on occasion. Then there’s about 2 or 3 that I’ll watch over and over. Piracy is more about watching those movies once and then deleting them because you don’t want to watch it anymore. There are so many terrible movies out there, it’s easier to blame filesharing than it is to admit that you are doing a terrible job.
  
  Then the troll lawyers are there, they don’t care about any of that, they just want money.
Anonymous

The outsized profits of Digital distributers of Intellectual Property are precisely the result of their priviledged legislatively protected control of digital distribution channels under current Copyright Law.

That unearned monopoly profit and that legislated proprietary control of distribution channels are what the unregulated Internet threatens to abolish.

No amount of proven profitability will satisy Corporate Copyright Holders, or cause them to settle for less than the level of coercive regimentation that will credibly guarantee systemic continuation of their profits in perpetuity.

Present profitability of a particular product or product line or, even, company, is simply not the point.

The coming iteration of PIPA, SOPA, ACTA, CISPA, or Six Strikes; or, the next MegaUpload takedown, is not to be defferred or delayed in the slightest because the Movie or Gaming or Publishing Industries are enjoying an oceanic wave of profits.

Those oceanic profits have aiways been there for Copyright protected distributors of Intellectual property. Those who receive those profits have been intelligent enough to keep their mouths shut; but, the debilitating fear that ANY Copyright Protected industry is in imminent risk of rigor mortis because of a lack of profits is either a joke or a collective psychosis.

What is new is NOT those oceanic profits.

What IS new (for the time being at least) is the unregulated Internet.

The unregulated Internet proves every day that Intellectual Property can be digitally distributed (warehoused, replicated, transmitted) from anywhere on the planet to anywhere on the planet for essentially Zero cost. What is then the relevance of legislatively protected digital distributors? What is the economic justification for their profits? What value above Zero should those profits be?

It is this loss of Control that has Digital Distributors clamoring for ever more coercive and direct government management of the internet. No amount of profit will substitute for control.

Why?

Profit is an economic measure of success.

Control is measured by survival.
Puddleglum137

I don’t care enough and I’ll wait till it’s on TV …
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1136873036 Bart Edward Simmons

It cant be considered a lost sale if a majority of pirates are not even in the market to buy the dvd or go to the theater. Word of mouth for me is I tell people about a movie on FB or in person and they go and either watch or buy the dvd which they would not have done and it increases sales. If Hollywood had a reward system to where you prove that a legit sale came from someone telling friends about a movie, there sales would increase even more but theu to busy trying to stop piracy either knowing or not knowing of this word of mouth revenue stream that could be created.
Anon

This story misses the point. No one has the right to duplicate and distribute but the creators and their agents. Artists will never stop seeking control over the things they create themselves, as this is part of basic human nature. When pirates can offer compelling reasons they should take control beyond “you can’t stop us”, society will listen.

Until then, the legal trends are clear. Avengers should put to rest the asinine pirate canard that “Hollywood makes only crap we don’t want to see, so we are entitled to it for free.”
- Anyone
  
  the problem with that is that the alternative to legalizing non-profit piracy is total surveillance
  
  and that is just not desireable
  - Anonymous
    
    Desireable?
    
    “Unacceptable” is the word you are looking for. Copyright enforcement cannot coexist with any aspect of freedom of speech since there still is not method to in effect moderate communication without monitoring all communication.
- m.themerryreaper
  
  The creators sign away their control when dealing with the content industry… Educate yourself before attempting to educate others.
- Guest
  
  >This story misses the point.
  
  But hey, so do you, and often at that.
  
  >
  Artists will never stop seeking control over the things they create themselves, as this is part of basic human nature.
  People will never stop sharing, as this is part of basic human nature.
  
  >When pirates can offer compelling reasons they should take control beyond “you can’t stop us”, society will listen.
  
  Society has listened and generally, they’d rather listen to pirates than the RIAA because most people think driftnet suing expeditions are absolutely disgusting.
  
  >Avengers should put to rest the asinine pirate canard that “Hollywood makes only crap we don’t want to see, so we are entitled to it for free.”
  
  See, this is where you miss the point. Avengers put to rest the asinine claim that pirates will wreck your profits. They don’t, and they never have; otherwise Mitch Bainwol wouldn’t get his increasing bonuses with every passing year. And if Hollywood makes crap that I don’t want to see, guess what: I DON’T SEE IT. Meaning I don’t get it from anywhere. Your insistence that everyone who dislikes most of Hollywood’s content must be a filthy pirate and should be sued to oblivion is very telling of your (lack of) common sense and intelligence.
  
  Did Pelouze kick you out of the special desk again? Someone’s clearly missing his daily dose of protein.
- foff
  
  May be you miss the point. Who says no one but the creators and agent have the right to duplicate and distribute. The internet and the computer give me that right. Rights don’t fall out of the sky. No respects artificial rights. Go find another world to live in, you obviously don’t live in the real world here. No one stops the creators and agents from releasing the movie at the same time all over the world. Why don’t they exercise that right? No one stops them from offering a high quality download for a reasonable fee, why don’t they try it?
  
  I would have more respect for the agents and creators if they would throw something into the public domain after a reasonable time and let someone else see what they can do. But I see no artist objecting to lifetime plus 90 years or whatever it is. So when they show a little respect to the development of culture we might return a little to them. Right now they say fuck us and we say fuck them. How noble is that?
- Fredrika
  
  > “No one has the right to duplicate and distribute but the creators and their agents.”
  
  Incorrect. Many people have that right. The copyright monopoly only regulates some manufacturing and distribution, not all, in some countries, not all.
  
  > “Artists will never stop seeking control over the things they create themselves, as this is part of basic human nature.”
  
  You seem confused, it’s not control over the things they create they seek control over, it’s others people’s property they seek control over. This anti-free market behaviour and disrespect for property is in no way part of human nature.
  
  But it’s well known that you are against the free market.
  
  > “When pirates can offer compelling reasons they should take control beyond “you can’t stop us”, society will listen.”
  
  You seem confused, not understanding on which party the burden of proof lies. It does not lie on pirates, it lies on the party advocating the monopoly.
  
  Secondly, in the worlds strongest economy, the EU, which the US has to bow down to, society is starting to listen to the pirates, as the only growing group in the EU parliament has adopted the pirates stance on copyright, and the political pirates are being voted in to the political assemblies every week here. Do you not follow politics?
  
  > “Until then, the legal trends are clear.”
  
  Yes the legal trends are clear, there’s already technology that makes it completely impossible to catch any pirates that protects themselves. The law has lost. And in the worlds strongest economy EU, which the US has to bow down to, the discussion is currently about legalizing filesharing in the entire EU.
  
  > “Avengers should put to rest the asinine pirate canard that “Hollywood makes only crap we don’t want to see, so we are entitled to it for free.”"
  
  Nobody has ever claimed that, it’s a dishonest straw-man argument that only you use. Secondly, obviously people are entitled to their own property, that they own. Thirdly, when you manufacture something with your own property, that you already own, the price is free, That price is not up for discussion.
  
  Again you write a meaningless comment with nothing other than lies and false propaganda, trying to protect some weak failed entrepreneurs that can’t handle themselves on the free market, and as true fascists see no problem with dismantling human rights and civil liberties to make money. Money that they are not entitled to.
  - Guest
    
    Two things man. First, I love how you can get “you seem confused” into almost every other post. Seriously, I do. Good saying.
    
    Secondly… “Nobody has ever claimed that, it’s a dishonest straw-man argument that only you use.”
    
    Actually, people do use that argument. It’s never the smartest pirates or philosophers who use that argument, but it still does see use. There is a distinction between claiming that the price of an object which can be infinitely replicated and produced by an individual is free, which is a descriptive claim that you use, and claiming that people are entitled to have it and should have it, which is a normative claim. I know that your argument is a good one, but that doesn’t mean that all pirates use that argument.
    - Fredrika
      
      “Actually, people do use that argument.”
      
      I have never seen any pirate claim that because Hollywood makes crap, that nobody wants to see(which would therefore refer to the intellectual work), they’re therefore entitled to it. That would make no sense whatsoever.
      
      I have seen people claim that the copies they sell are worthless, and therefore nobody sees any point in buying them, but that something completely different than arguing that the intellectual works are worthless.
      
      > “It’s never the smartest pirates or philosophers who use that argument, but it still does see use.”
      
      How do you know that they are pirates? Maybe they are copyright trolls that argue as if they were pirates?
      
      > “There is a distinction between claiming that the price of an object which can be infinitely replicated and produced by an individual is free, which is a descriptive claim that you use and claiming that people are entitled to have it and should have it, which is a normative claim.”
      
      Since intellectual works don’t constitute property, which therefore nobody can be entitled to, and therefore it’s impossible to be not entitled to an intellectual work, that makes the claim and discussion of entitlement to intellectual works meaningless and irrelevant, either if you make it, or if you refute it, as Anon did.
      
      > “I know that your argument is a good one, but that doesn’t mean that all pirates use that argument.”
      
      Funny how Anon only refutes meaningless alleged claims from what you call not the smartest pirates and philosophers.
    - Guest
      
      @flphpp:disqus
      
      “That would make no sense whatsoever.”
      
      Correct. I didn’t say it was logical, but it’s not exactly uncommon knowledge that most beliefs are held irrationally (and I can back that claim up, if you doubt it). Even if you say that thinking you are entitled to something and thinking that whatever you are entitled to is crap are contradictory viewpoints, then that still doesn’t matter as to whether people believe it or not, because people do not generally experience dissonance simply by holding contradictory attitudes.
      
      “How do you know that they are pirates? Maybe they are copyright trolls that argue as if they were pirates?”
      
      A possibility, but not a large one. I have seen the argument fairly often, and have heard it voiced by people I know in real life. I must acknowledge that the possibility exists that they are attempting to deceive and present a false viewpoint, but the evidence does not lead me to that conclusion.
      
      “Since intellectual works don’t constitute property, which therefore nobody can be entitled to, and therefore it’s impossible to be not entitled to an intellectual work,”
      
      I’m uncertain as to what you’re saying here. I’ll respond, but I’m not sure that I’ll address what you’re trying to say. If you could rephrase it, that would be helpful.
      
      Someone can view themselves as being entitled to an itellectual work. Just because it is not property does not mean that entitlement changes. One can view themselves as entitled to an experience.
      
      To be more clear; I’m saying that people tend to view this in a moral light; exaggerated hypothetical example: “I am entitled to see this movie, and if I am prevented from seeing it, then a moral wrong has been committed”. The reasoning behind this, as far as I can ascertain, works on a type of naturalistic fallacy following these premises; 1. All intellectual works can be produced for free. 2. Anyone with a computer can produce these works. 3. I have a computer and can produce these works. Conclusion: Because I can produce these works, it is morally wrong if there is a situation where I am unable to produce them. The logical fallacy should be apparent.
      
      As I look over this again, I think the emphasis on the moral aspect is where I was not clear before. If that’s not true, let me know and I’ll refine this.
      
      “Funny how Anon only refutes meaningless alleged claims from what you call not the smartest pirates and philosophers.”
      
      Well, he’s not exactly bright himself, so it’s a little unfair to expect too much of him. If he took real arguments on, he might break.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=500176143 Bryan Clifford
  
  Since when did a fat cat MPAA exec do ANYTHING artistically with a film? Every creative individual who works on a film is paid off and signs away their rights. Actors(Most but A-listers), Directors(some), Producers(some), Editors, Gaffers and Grips. THESE are creators, THESE are artists, and they get pennies compared to what studio execs who have complete control and zero talent receive in compensation. I promise you half the artists in the film industry download content (I am one of them) because they are nerds (especially in the production side of things) and probably hate the studios as much as us.
  
  This is not about ARTISTS wanting to control their content, if it was I’d feel a lot worse about file sharing. I never download an independent band (not indie-style, but actually indie) because I know I am directly affecting their revenues and lifestyles as artists. This is about control freaks never wanting to change and blaming everyone but themselves for the failings of their company. A real leader adapts, remains humble, and leads into the future. Hollywood mobsters are a group of archaic neanderthals with very little talent at anything but cross board room circle jerks.
  - quimbylips
    
    Well said. From what I can see independent artists welcome the internet and filesharing and are better for it if they create good content. As soon as I see a massive record label I see corporate monopolies that restrict what artists get to create what content, restrict what media avenues are available for non-signed artists to be seen/heard, place gag orders on artists so artists can’t really say what they think and feel, and basically totally control our culture so that they can maximise consumer spending for their own profit. If artists produce shit content they do well in the current model of force-feeding society. It’s the real artists, the truly creative and skilled ones, that get squeezed out, gagged, and controlled that I have a moral objection to.
- Anonymous
  
  ”
  No one has the right to duplicate and distribute but the creators and their agents.”
  
  Manifest bull. For the last 4000 years some interests have tried to create and uphold such monopolies. It’s always failed. Even if you started killing people by torture in order to try enforcing such legislation.
  
  The case is quite clear. Human nature supports “copyright” even less than it does practical communism. And the “legal trends” are already dead-ending. Nothing done so far has managed to curb, hamper or hinder filesharing. nothing ever will.
  
  All you can do is make the situation even more ridiculous. I encourage you to try. What I can say so far is that every time I show a person that making copies of a media file now can carry stricter sentences than manslaughter and away walks another new pirate.
http://twitter.com/happyizpunjai happy

i will download this when 720p or 1080p version is out.
Juan Quiceno

this goes to show that piracy doesn’t hurt good productions. it just helps us be more critical when chosing a movie. shity movies will just be downloaded and watched for science. good movies. well… people will go see them in theaters! same goes for a fucking music albums. I won’t buy a $50 music album just for one almost good song.
Hardingmark1

Well, i go to the cinema to see the big action blockbusters and still love it. but i also download the films that i wouldn’t go and see. basically they are not loosing money from me downloading as i wouldn’t go to watch it anyway.
Richard Fine

I’m kinda dubious about that line that advance leaks of games are equivalent to low-quality cams of movies. Bugs don’t usually affect every moment of the experience in the same way that cams do – like, maybe the game breaks in particular situations, or needs some hackery in order to get it to run at all, and maybe there are a few textures that need a bit more polish, but the rest of the time it’s no different from what the official release will be. Something that has a noticeable impact on every second of play (like low-resolution filming does on cam captures) gets fixed ASAP because it makes developing other aspects of the game difficult.
asdf

Even my old-man-typical-father-of-japanese-descent wants to see this piece of crap.
I-RIGHT-I

A thief is a thief what matter that he stole a little or a lot? Why anyone would waste their time watching a crappy ripped movie is beyond me but then, I’m not a thief so I guess I just don’t understand.
- Anonymous
  
  “A thief is a thief” is not an extremely insightful statement at all. Saying such nonsense is likely why you don’t understand. I could attempt to explain that pirates only want to interfere with the monopoly created by hollywood by sharing movies and music and offering an honor system that, “If you like it, buy it.” This record just shows that even though something is pirated, it can still break records.
  
  Or if you prefer your black and white world, more power to you.
- Anyone
  
  I’m also not a thief, I’m a downloader and filesharer
- Anonymous
  
  Oh please, really? You come to TorrentFreak and post the whole theft/thief thesis? You’re either trolling or wrong.
iJestAsAGuest

I honestly believe that selling any of the pirated goods on the internet through media like pirate DVD’s etc. Is highly illegal, and I never have and never will sell any of the stuff I download. The stuff i want to know about is when i download a cracked copy of a game, because i bought it a few years back and lost the disc (very typical scenario in my life) Am I still doing something illegal? the way the MPAA and european commission for piracy prevention and all the rest of them take it is “it was a lost sale that could have benefited the many impoverished people who create the work, and us!” As far as im concerned if i got off my ass to buy a game or something, i bought it forever. Even if the disk breaks im entitled to the game anyway, after all I payed for it!

Don’t even get me started on why the copyright industry seams to think that it is able to write legislation whenever the fuck it feels like. At the end of the day, the people with the power will always oppress and the pirates will always find a way. I mean virgin broadband just banned pirate bay. It has literally added 3 seconds max to the time it takes to load up a proxy and download torrents anyway. The whole concept of blocking a site and being aware that any customer has a way round it is rediculous. Either you block it 100% completely or you make it legal. Otherwise where do you draw the line?
If I was in the same room while some acquaintance had a copyright film, am I involving myself in illegal activity. What about the whole mistaken identity scenario, you download something on your friends/relatives PC and he spends his life in jail? Fair.

Absolutely says the MPAA.

Not to mention this whole stop the pirates thing is a poor cover up to the fact that none of the geniuses have found a way to find the leaks and moles in their own corporations who upload the orginal content. I mean there is an entire pirate video category devoted to DVD screeners. Their existence is strictly controlled by the film industry, so now its our fault that one of them actually uploaded it illegally? No one seams to give 2 fucks about the anonymous millions uploading the material, why are the people who are resourceful enough to benefit from it the ones who are penalised? Surely what we are doing is only possible because of one original uploader. Because lets face it, there not gonna shut down the millions of torrent sites so they should stop it further up the chain right?

Millions of copyright photgraphs are hot linked and modified by people at home via google images, no one seams to give a fuck!? Don’t see international groups of photgraphers saying how they want the internet censored because people stole there work!

RANT over. If you read this far thanks :)
- quimbylips
  
  On your question about downloading a copy of something you already bought, I agree that is morally ok but legally perhaps not. Small business I worked in had a couple of copies of windows, one of the CD’s cracked, so couldn’t load it on new PC. After lengthy discussion with sales requesting replacement CD, I still had the license number, still had the receipt and was entitled to support, but apparently the initial purchase was for the piece of plastic – the CD. I had not purchased a right to use the software, so they would not send a new CD. The solution is obvious (use another copy and put in the valid license key) but I was completely dumbfounded about that approach to software use. No idea what/if any companies follow that policy today.
Alex

What? Did you guys read the entire article or just based your comments on the headline? He said in this case, the CAM version was out 1 week before the actual release.. In US.. And the CAM version is not really a competitor. People still wanted to see the movie in 3D and in the theaters. So it didn’t have that much of an impact. However, the dvd and the bluray rips, aka higher quality copies DO in fact impact on these figures. And that is also due to the different release dates they set. So yeah, overall, piracy DOES have an impact on the industry but also the Studios should change the way they release the movies i.e same global release date, which they are starting to do. Also have in mind, the reason why they started making these movies is to get people to go to the cinemas.. That was a direct aim against piracy which means it did have an impact before..

The studios need to change the business model if they want people to go to the movies or what not. They are starting to and that is, in my opinion, Thanks to piracy.
I don’t want to wait months before I can watch a movie. Not everyone lives in the US..
- Guest
  
  I think you’re right about the cinemas. The author of the article seems to hold that viewpoint, comparing cams to concerts. With the dvd rips, I wouldn’t claim you’re wrong, but I don’t really think that there’s a way to determine if you’re right.
  
  There are plenty of movies that I downloaded that are of great quality that I went out and bought. Most of what I download ends up deleted. If I didn’t have the ability to download it, I most definitely would not buy it. I think the only industry that is truly affected are the movie rentals. And they have mostly been replaced by NetFlix, anyway.
Keith Panton

For me, I’ve got a stack of DVDs on my shelf, some still in their plastic wrap, because I like owning stuff that I enjoy. Yet I’ve got downloaded high quality, torrented versions of those same files. (I’m not going blu ray, because DVD is just fine to me)

Because, while I’m happy to pay for what I want to see, I’m damned if I’ll let them force me to watch anti piracy ads (which only show up on genuine, paid for discs!), other adverts, trailers etc, when the cracked, torrented versions of movies and TV shows just get straight to it.

I don’t even believe it’s so much about money, they must have seen how Steam is raking in cash by the truckload by being open and honest about what you get for your money. I believe it’s that the big companies just can’t bear to evolve, and let go of their power and control over who sees what when. If you stick the latest episodes of DR Who, Top Gear, or in US terms, The Wire, Spartacus, etc up on iTunes, a day after they’re shown on TV, for maybe $1-$2 each, no ads, no DRM, I foresee a good million bucks an episode in free money. Remember, they’re not having to make DVDs and circulate stock around stores. But they’re terrified that us, the customer will be allowed to actually use what we paid for when we want to.
- Bamatek
  
  absolutely right. there is a marriage between studios, distributors and movie theaters that the current business model would like to preserve. currently the model provides fora release lifecycle of theater, dvd, video on demand. the studios are trying to preserve the theater chains, when technology provides and/or economics dictate alternate viewing and distribution channels
dealwithit

I _DID_ download a car.
- Anonymous
  
  Filesharing will only be complete when you can download a bottle of 12-year old Laphroig.
  
  Here’s hoping…
Josesamuel45

I download torrents ALL the time. I’m going to see The Avengers in 3D IMAX tonight.

Give me something worth watching on the big screen, and I’ll be more than happy to pay for it. Even if it costs $18.50 (which it does – including the Fandango service charge).
Pingback: The Avengers Demonstrates Piracy's Overstated Effect on Ticket Sales - Forbes
Kk

I downloaded the copy. halfway through the movie i went to watch it at the cinema. the movie is great. one of my favourite action movies. i wish there were more movie that would make me get off my couch and pay to @ Hollywood: Stop making crappy movies and we might pay to see them.
http://starblogger.net/ Daniel

To me, some CAM version never means. However, in my place I am living, there is no sign of an official movie theater. That is the reason why I have no other choice to see the film soon.
A A

What a load of entitled, adolescent bullshit. Of COURSE piracy negatively affects legitimate creative content — but most of you don’t care because YOU MAKE NOTHING. You’re just a consumer looking get something for nothing, to justify what you know is immoral, unethical behavior. Just because the movie studios make too much money in your opinion, or just because there are leakers, or just because you don’t like copyright law, or just because you’d like to think its a ‘victimless’ crime, doesn’t make it any less a crime.

It’s theft. I, a creator, made something, worked my ass off to make it great, invested considerable creative time and talent (which you do not possess) to make something amazing, engaging, beautiful and fun. Hundreds of anonymous people helped — gaffers and production assistants and makeup and modeling and CGI people — middle class people just like you. And you’re stealing FROM ALL OF US. The fact that you watch something online and don’t pay for it takes money from our pocket — the pockets of the people YOU are lucky enough to have make your culture, you stupid fucking cunt.

In sum: if you steal from me, FUCK YOU. You’re not enlightened. You’re a DOUCHEBAG.
- http://twitter.com/MrGz0r MrGz0r
  
  Well i guess i “STEAL” from you all the time no wonder you don’t have money to pay me :)
  - Cfh
    
    after a completely valid argument you tell people to fuck off? Whos the douchebag now? Go crawl in a hole and die. You have an opportunity to promote whatever it is you made instead you choose to insult a potential audience. You Sir are a dick
- Anonymous
  
  Entitled? Look in the mirror. Doing a lot of hard work does not “entitle” you to any money. I could go dig a ditch – really hard work – all day long, and do you know what I’d get for it? Nothing. Because no one wants a ditch. NO one took anything from you, you just failed to make anything people are willing to pay for!
  - http://blog.crimsonflames.com Daniel Fletcher
    
    The trick is if you don’t want the ditch and don’t want to pay for it, don’t go use the ditch after for your entertainment. (God knows what sick things you’d do in a ditch to get yourself off.)
    - Anonymous
      
      Yea, well, here’s the real comparison. You spend all that time digging a ditch, someone sees you do it, goes “hmm”, and then goes into his own back yard, grabs a shovel, and creates an exactly identical ditch right there.
      
      Then you come along and tell him he should pay you money for the use of the ditch he dug himself as you came up with the idea of a ditch which looks exactly that particular way first.
      
      Then he tells you to sod off, and you run to a lawyer in order to get an injunction against all the nasty ditch-diggers everywhere.
      
      That’s the copyright monopoly in a nutshell. It’s insane and demented.
- Dunbal
  
  Translation: “You mere mortals are absolutely incapable of creating anything I have a unique gift and therefore deserve lavish rewards heaped on me”.
  
  Nah, you ain’t so special. Anyone can be a director – the proof is, almost every actor (wow lots of skill needed there) eventually becomes a director. And people are generally creative. The world will go on without you, and stuff will still get made.
  
  What you are pissy about is that your business model relies on telling people there’s something desirable inside the tent, and charging them money to see it. Remind of you something? Circuses and freak shows, perhaps? How imaginative. And then you go around wanting to change the whole world to suit your needs because some kids managed to peek under the tent. It’s a cost of doing business. If you don’t like it, may I suggest concrete walls? Remember to put a roof over it because someone is sure to fly overhead in a helicopter, too. At what point does it stop being profitable trying to “protect” your little scheme, and it becomes more expensive to “fight piracy” than to live with it?
  
  And don’t get me started on the jobs. The “jobs” that Hollywood creates are temporary at best. You’d have a better future working at a burger joint. Oh yeah the people at the top are paid big bucks, but almost nothing trickles down – have you BEEN to Hollywood? It’s a slum. So don’t act all holier-than-thou as the almighty job creator. You’re a greedy bastard in it for the money, and everyone else can go to hell.
  
  As for the tone of your reply, well that speaks for itself. Anyone can string together a tirade of insults but you just come off as being a spoiled child. Enjoy your claim to “property”, but make sure you don’t forget where the line is between what you actually created and what you yourself “stole” from someone else.
- Fredrika
  
  > “Of COURSE piracy negatively affects legitimate creative content..”
  
  After 15 years of non-profit filesharing, and almost 50 years of non-profit home copying, absolutely no scientific evidence has appeared that support the thesis that non-profit piracy affects either culture, creators, the goal of copyright, society or the culture industry’s current record turnovers.
  
  It simply isn’t of course, the evidence that does exists says it’s more the complete opposite.
  
  > “but most of you don’t care..”
  
  You cannot care about what does not exist.
  
  > “..because YOU MAKE NOTHING.”
  
  So because you make something it’s natural to make up stories and spread false propaganda?
  
  > “You’re just a consumer looking get something for nothing..”
  
  Searching for the cheapest way of acquiring goods and services is the corner stone of capitalism, economical thinking and the free market. Do you have a problem with capitalism, economical thinking and the free market?
  
  > “..to justify what you know is immoral, unethical behavior.”
  
  First of all other people obviously does not share your confused belief of what’s immoral and unethical. Secondly, since when does capitalism, the free market and economical thinking have be justified? Thirdly, people obviously has no reason whatsoever to justify why they manufacture goods with their own property, that they already own. Society does not work in that order. The only thing that has to be justified is the prohibition in law, a justification that has failed in this case for the last 50 years.
  
  > “Just because the movie studios make too much money in your opinion, or just because there are leakers, or just because you don’t like copyright law, or just because you’d like to think its a ‘victimless’ crime, doesn’t make it any less a crime.”
  
  No one has ever claimed that those circumstances make it any less of a crime. Whether or not it’s a crime is something completely irrelevant to a several hundreds of millions of people filesharing.
  
  > “It’s theft.”
  
  It is not. Manufacturing something with your own property, that you own, as people filesharing does, can never be theft. This indisputable fact can be verified in the law or a dictionary.
  
  > “And you’re stealing FROM ALL OF US.
  
  Most certainly not. Acting according to the free market rules and offering you competition over manufacturing and distributing copies cheaper than you is in no way theft. It’s normal free market behaviour. The effects of the free market does never constitute theft.
  
  > “The fact that you watch something online and don’t pay for it..”
  
  People have never paid for watching something. People pay when they buy goods or services.
  
  > “..takes money from our pocket..”
  
  Please stop spreading lies. You have the same amount of money in your pocket afterwards as you did before. Inability to sell something does not mean something has been taken from you. It means you are a failed entrepreneur. That’s never somebody else’s responsibility.
  
  > “In sum: if you steal from me..”
  
  In sum they do not, in fact every claim you put forward was false.
  
  > “FUCK YOU. You’re not enlightened. You’re a DOUCHEBAG.”
  
  I should have read this far before i started replying, now i’m starting to think it’s a troll comment playing the devil’s advocate. Nobody can be this ignorant.
  - http://blog.crimsonflames.com Daniel Fletcher
    
    People back in the Bards time never paid to watch his plays enacted???
    - Fredrika
      
      > “People back in the Bards time never paid to watch his plays enacted???”
      
      They paid for the service of re-enacting the performance, not to watch.
    - Anonymous
      
      Actually they did. And today Lady Gaga no doubt has fans attending her concerts more than once.
      
      Which has no bearing on the fact that they in many cases have already downloaded and listened to her music in ten different remixes already.
  - Anonymous
    
    Unfortunately, both you and I have demonstrable knowledge of at least one person who appears to be even more willfully ignorant than the above poster.
    
    Then again, i certainly hope ntp is a freak of nature and not easily found elsewhere.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Schmagogee/100003687492254 Bob Schmagogee
  
  what if your amazing, engaging,beautiful, and fun movie sucks balls? And all of those people who helped you make a crappy movie, they deserve to lose money for helping to make a sucky movie.
- quimbylips
  
  Don’t worry, we probably don’t download your artistic creations. We only download the good stuff.
- Anonymous
  
  There I have good enws for you. No self-respecting pirate would either download nor view any of the creations known to be made by a semi-illiterate douche such as your own humble self. Happy?
  
  Because we are largely connoiseurs and have somewhat higher standards. By all means post the “creation” you are upset about. Many of us will shun it like the proverbial plague. And be sure to downrate it on imdb to give it even less visibility.
  
  I suspect you are simply trolling but just in case your inflammatory rhetoric is actually genuine I’ll take some pity on you and inform you that:
  
  A) Filesharing is not theft. No court in the land has ever agreed with that. Just as “jaywalking” isn’t “murder”. Insisting that it should be so first assumes that you re-define the word entirely.
  
  B) Every scientific empirical study ever made has firmly established that filesharing is either neutral or positive to sales. The hypothesis of the “lost sale” has been emphatically disproven. Even your assumption that someone isn’t gaining money due to filesharing is thus verifiably false.
  
  C) Adolescent bullshit? Go back to your history class and start reading up on Thomas Jeffersson. Maybe then you’ll get a clue. Quite a lot of the filesharing community or the pro-pirate people are, in fact, mature individuals with a solid grasp of history, ordinary lives, and well-paying jobs.
  
  I would advise you to put the crack pipe aside before you write commentaries anywhere else. And then go read up on the facts.
Journalisk

I think this was a great article that illustrated PERFECTLY why bootleg copies aren’t too much of a threat to high quality theater releases. Many people have learned to not even bother to watch a downloaded version until the movie has come out on video, because then and only then do high quality releases typically appear online. And so if you really want to see a movie, you’ll see it in the theater. And once the video does come out, for many who have t.v. there is no point downloading it still, because it’s probably now out on demand, and if you wait longer, maybe Netflix, and then you can watch it on a tv: movies with a high level of cinematography don’t translate colors well sometimes. I was LIVID when someone put a bootleg of Twilight Breaking Dawn, with it’s dark cinematography on in front of me on a computer, and it RUINED the movie for me. I still haven’t seen it…I mean I still haven’t seen it again (Freudian slip?), and they packed the box set has so many extras to counteract downloading that I think I will just buy it. Sucker? Maybe, but with the high quality of special effects and filming on films, what wise pirate wouldn’t think twice before downloading a crappy copy?
Journalisk

Also, I predict this movie will gross well on it’s second weekend as well. I was too afraid of the crowds last week to go, which means it will probably be at least two weeks of packing in high grossing crowds.
http://twitter.com/MrGz0r MrGz0r

~~~
Bamatek

real talk,, the best way for studio to prevent or reduce piracy is to deliver a quality product at a reasonable price. Yes free is always attractive, but what drives a lot of people willingness to pirate is resentment to the crap that the studios release. let’s be honest the vast majority of movies released are crap and the studios do not apologize for putting out this shoddy product. they don’t refund for poor customer experience, no, in fact prices continue to rise, particularly if you live in a large city. Add in the so called technological gimmicks, IMAX, 3D , that sometimes double the price of admission to a crappy movie and you can see why piracy is a response to poor customer service.
Guest

MAFIAA doesn’t care about facts. They will continue to lie and destroy the internet because they are fucking greedy. We should all boycott cinema.
http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

Bottom line is that very few people would be happy with a cam’d movie. I’ve personally downloaded some from the ‘big name groups’ and said “Never again!”

That’s how horrible most of them are.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Ender-Wiggin/100000885624281 Ender Wiggin

i’ve got a 60inch full hd screen, and surround sound. I’m not going to bother with an unwatchable cam, unless it’s hangover 2, or game of shadows :P. I’m also not draggin my entire family to the movies for a hundred bucks + for some shit i can download in a few months.
Anonymous

It’s good to point out that the release gaps that Hollywood insists on is likely the biggest issue with perceivable losses (if you buy into their propaganda.) It’s a sacred cow they don’t want to sacrifice but needs to go. Having high quality DRM-free digital alternatives ready right after major theatre releases (that are worldwide at the same time) could go a long way.
Gae

I do not watch movies at the cinema because I do not like to watch a movie surrounded by other noisy people.
As the movie companies decided I do not have permission to watch it in my own home upon release my only option is to watch the cam version, I would in the past have still bought it on dvd/blu ray when possible but my new policy of giving no money to hollywood came into action at the start of the year and is in place until further notice.
http://www.facebook.com/david.cuevas2 David Cuevas

this report is false !! true fans will still go to the theater just to see the real deal.
http://twitter.com/MrGz0r MrGz0r

~sooner or later were going to have a landfill with a bunch of blue rays no one wants,will that show Hollywood there making shit?
Pingback: The Avengers vs. Internet Piracy « Tom Rippon
Anonymous

“People who download
these are collectors, passionate fans, or just curious. But in no way do
these bootlegs seriously hurt concert attendances.”

Collectors ? Passionate fans ? – are these the new terms for Freeloaders ?
- Fredrika
  
  > “..are these the new terms for Freeloaders ?”
  
  You seem confused. The price for manufacturing a copy with your own property, that you own and have already paid for does not make you a freeloader. Every single piece of property involved has been paid so it’s not free. Manufacturing the copy however with your own property that you own, is free. That price can never be anything else, so free is the natural price. Accepting the natural price of something does not make you a freeloader.
  
  Secondly, freeloading, if we should use that highly confusing and illogical term, has been the norm in society for over a 150 years, since when it was decied that free accessing of copies of intellectual works on a commercial scale and in non-profit manner, without privileging copyright holders with any control over such making available and accessing copies, and without them being privileged with any copyright related compensation from such accessing, is somewthing very good, that all people should embrace.
  
  So what you call freeloading is either accepting a natural price that can never be anything else, or it’s actually a well established and fully accepted norm in society that existed since long before you were born.
  
  Either way your comment is meaningless and only displays confusion, confusion from someone who has a problem with the free market and people doing what they wish with their own property, that they own. Similar to those advocating communism or a planned economy.
  - Anonymous
    
    “You seem confused”
    
    Not at all, please continue typing your normal BS though.
    - Anonymous
      
      You do indeed seem to be confused. Especially given that when Fredrika points out verifiable fact all you can do in a comeback is a limpid dismissal of it as “BS”.
      
      That’s rather harsh language given that Fredrika’s statements are backed up by every study ever performed, which emphatically demonstrates that “pirates” do, in fact, spend much more money on media consumption than the average non-pirate.
      
      We can, of course, assume that you somehow redefine “freeloader” to mean “someone who spend more money than anyone else” in which case i must point out that such a definition only holds up to scrutiny within the boundaries of your own skull.
      
      When you try to use it on a public forum you are simply making an ass of yourself. Nothing new there though.
    - Anonymous
      
      “veritable facts”
      
      What ?
      
      You mean the argument that Fredricka often uses which is basically “I bought the hardware, so downloading media (including copyrighted media i assume) for free doesn’t make me a freeloader, its accepted in society as the norm and everyone should embrace it”.
      
      Do you recall a US court case where the “I own everything I used to make copies of copyright infringing intellectual works” defense was successfully used ?
      
      And why are those people that get caught downloading and threatened by court or a fine, not simply using this argument.
      
      It’s an automatic “get out of jail free card” right ?
      
      Um, doesn’t appear so.
      
      I do however agree that certain media should be freely available on the internet (in-fact a large quantity, especially the materials that copyright holders “want” to be there) and downloading and enjoying it should be embraced, I’m never going to agree that the internet should be a wild west free for all.
      
      Look at the scammers regarding the TPB blocking and I think you’ll agree (and certainly the duped would) that some fast to in-act and effective internet regulation would be beneficial.
      
      “We can, of course, assume that you somehow redefine “freeloader” to mean “someone who spend more money than anyone else” in which case i must point out that such a definition only holds up to scrutiny within the boundaries of your own skull.”
      
      Whilst some studies have revealed (within whatever parameters they used), that a percentage of pirates do purchase a good quantity of media, it’s not a practice that appears widespread amongst pirates.
      
      I haven’t even seen a report that clarifies what “type” of pirate was even polled.
      
      Was it a cross section, random, who the hell knows and that in itself could make for completely different results.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “You mean the argument..//..which is basically “I bought the hardware, so downloading media (including copyrighted media i assume) for free doesn’t make me a freeloader..”.
      
      I have never argued such, so why do you make this dishonest claim?
      
      I have never argued that filesharing isn’t freeloading because of the fact that all property involved in filesharing is owned by the people filesharing. I argued that it isn’t freeloading because all property involved has been paid for by the people filesharing. Paid does not equal freeloading.
      
      Secondly, i claim that because of the fact that no other price than free is possible when you perform the work and manufacture a copy with your own property, which makes free the natural price, it can not be considered freeloading.
      
      Finally, it’s not copyrighted media you download.
      It’s information describing the physical patterns of another persons
      property, that he owns, and that he freely chooses to give to you for free.
      
      All property involved is paid for by the people filesharing, no other price than free is possible for the act of manufacturing something with your own property, and the information required is freely given to you, therefore it’s in no way freeloading. You can not call someone who has paid for all the property involved, who performs all the work himself, that is freely given everything he needs, for a freeloader, when no other price than free is possible.
      
      > “..its accepted in society as the norm and everyone should embrace it”"
      
      Filesharing is accepted as the norm in society? And making available and accessing copies of intellectual works for free on a commercial scale and in a non-profit manner, without any regards for the opinion or approval of the creator or copyright holder, and without them being privileged with any copyright related compensation from such use, has indeed been the norm in society for the last 150 years, a norm that society argues should be embraced.
      
      > “Do you recall a US court case where the “I own everything I used to make copies of copyright infringing intellectual works” defense was successfully used ?
      
      And why are those people that get caught downloading and threatened by court or a fine, not simply using this argument.
      
      It’s an automatic “get out of jail free card” right ?
      
      Um, doesn’t appear so.”
      
      Again you seem confused. I have never argued that any of the above facts regarding who owns what, who has paid for what, and that piracy isn’t freeloading, changes the facts that it is a crime. This is another dishonest straw-man argument from you.
      
      > “I’m never going to agree that the internet should be a wild west free for all.”
      
      First of all, a society where the copyright monopoly doesn’t regulate non-profit use, as it already today isn’t in many countries in the world, and as the entire EU is considering embracing, or a society where all people aren’t continuously monitored and under surveillance, doesn’t make the Internet a wild west.
      
      Secondly, the reason you’ll never agree to that is because you are against copyright as a concept, and because you applaude illegitimate legislation, as they do in dictatorships.
      
      Copyright is a concept that’s supposed to benefit the public, not the monopoly holder, and any regulation in the copyright monopoly that sets the free market aside is made up of prohibition, and such must obey the rules for legitimate legislation, considering verified documented need, function and proportionality. The non-profit parts of today’s copyright monopoly in those countries where it’s regulated fails obeying to those rules completely, it has never been proven any need for it, so it’s simply illegitimate legislation, just as in dictatorships, and you out of principle applaud this illegitimate legislation, because you do not care about the goal of copyright, which you are clearly against. You advocate that creators out of principle should be excluded from the free market and privileged with a legislative monopoly, but that’s not what copyright is about in any way.
      
      > “Look at the scammers regarding the TPB blocking and I think you’ll agree (and certainly the duped would) that some fast to in-act and effective internet regulation would be beneficial.”
      
      There already is regulation on the Internet, the same regulation as in the real world. Regulation that could be used if one where interested i going after those mentioned scammers legislatively, provided they committed any crime in the first place, which isn’t necessarily the case with the Pirate Bay clones.
      
      Secondly, maybe i should have asked which scammers you refer to? Maybe you mean those courts that violated the human rights protected freedom to seek, receive and impart information, through censoring a fully legal site?
      
      But violations of human rights and censorship is a scam you have applauded on several occasions.
      
      > “Whilst some studies have revealed (within whatever parameters they used), that a percentage of pirates do purchase a good quantity of media, it’s not a practice that appears widespread amongst pirates.
      
      Actually, according to several studies it appears that it is indeed a widespread practice amongst pirates, and that pirates are the party that is largely responsible for the culture industry’s current record revenues.
    - Anonymous
      
      ”
      Whilst some studies have revealed (within whatever parameters they used), that a percentage of pirates do purchase a good quantity of media, it’s not a practice that appears widespread amongst pirates.”
      
      To date both the Swiss and the Dutch governments have verified that the independent government-sponsored studies in piracy does, indeed, reveal that widespread piracy has no negative impact on sales. In fact, they conclude that there is a small positive bias on sales as a result of widespread piracy.
      
      In short…yes, it has conclusively been proven that the median average for the pirate crowd is that they purchase at least as much as the non-pirating citizen. Several times over. So if you want to look at pirates in general, that’s where empirical evidence pegs its tent.
      
      I find it remarkable that someone capable of posting wordwalls of very categorical expressions both manages to be factually inaccurate and ignorant in nearly all of his categorical statements.
      
      Do yourself a favor before you try to counter Fredrika next time – look at facts first. She has. Generally speaking I would advice against spur-of-the-moment knee-jerk countering on any subject pertaining to law as well when she makes a statement on it.
      
      We could, naturally, assume that you are here just in order to troll which of course is a possibility when you fire off half-arse assertions with no basis in fact on a consistent basis.
    - Anonymous
      
      “To date both the Swiss and the Dutch governments have verified that the independent government-sponsored studies in piracy does, indeed, reveal that widespread piracy has no negative impact on sales. In fact, they conclude that there is a small positive bias on sales as a result of widespread piracy.
      
      In short…yes, it has conclusively been proven that the median average for the pirate crowd is that they purchase at least as much as the non-pirating citizen. Several times over. So if you want to look at pirates in general, that’s where empirical evidence pegs its tent.”
      
      Conclusively proven ?
      
      A report from the Dutch who are a haven for piracy hosting and have almost zero media output (I doubt that anyone would fail to see that the Dutch film industry is unbelievably small, and there is little or no international market for Dutch films).
      
      And the Swiss who also have almost no media output (they’ve produced around 20 films since 2000) and believe “copyright holders won’t suffer because of piracy, since people eventually spend the money saved on entertainment products.” So in other words ‘we just don’t know but, you know, they’ll eventually spend the money on something” No kidding Switzerland, maybe chocolate ?
      
      Why upset your own general public and their “legal personal downloading” when it barely effects your own unbelieveably tiny media economy one way or another.
      
      Yup, these countries are definitely going to produce a relevant report on the effects of media piracy. Especially considering their illustrious track record of entertainment releases over the last 100 years…..oh, hang on, they don’t have one.
      
      These are not reports that many media producing countries outside of holland or Switzerland are going to take seriously.
      
      You know, prior to say 2005, I rarely sent copyright infringement notices. Maybe 50 a year max. In the last 7 years, I’ve averaged 6000 a year. And the Swiss/Dutch say copyright infringement isn’t a problem , ummmm yeah, sure thing guys…..oh and thanks to Leaseweb for being assholes about it. Although recently its amazing how that has dropped off since many cyberlockers have prevented link sharing and rewarding owners…….coincidence ???
      
      “Do yourself a favor before you try to counter Fredrika next time – look at facts first. She has. Generally speaking I would advice against spur-of-the-moment knee-jerk countering on any subject pertaining to law as well when she makes a statement on it.”
      
      I do look at facts. Obviously me and Fredricka are never going to agree on much – she comes from country that is for lack of a better description “pro-piracy” and it’s somewhat obvious as to her leanings on the subject (which is fine, I lean the other way). She also has no experience earning a living from media online and therefore no grounding in the realities of it. We can all pretend to be great quarterbacks if we talk from reports sat in our armchairs but really, who are we fooling, certainly not the people who “really” do it. That also doesn’t for one second mean that what she says are “the one and only facts or the only way of looking at a generally worldwide issue” irrespective of what the fanboys think.
      
      “As far as regulating the internet…no. There is NO way to “effectively” “regulate” the internet except by abolishing it altogether. I have adviced you in the past to look at China for proof on this. I must now advise that you do so again.
      
      Irrespective of any technology and any legislation you have only two alternatives: An internet where people do as they wish…or no internet at all. Understanding why this is so does not require rocket science. Don’t take my word for it though. Find some IT expert and ask his opinion. The greatest internet gurus around have mulled the question – and always come up with the same answer.
      
      SOPA/PIPA are case studies. That legislation could abolish most online companies simply by any competitor sending one letter with few options to argue their case. Indeed, Google found that no service they could provide would have been immune against sudden dead-man-drops like that. Neither, of course, would Microsoft, Apple, or even antivirus manufacturers in practice. HOWEVER…SOPA/PIPA would be completely useless against any and all forms of filesharing. Indeed, the only obvious use for the legislation would be as an anticompetitive tool used by one company against another in ways that would make US tort laws look positively sane”
      
      I already accept that the internet cannot be fully regulated and piracy cannot be eradicated 100%. Never has, never will.
      
      But I do not agree that a balanced law cannot be achieved. Without going into what is woefully inadequate with the current laws, i’ll simply say that they are outdated and inefficient at dealing with the piracy as they stand.
      
      “Any “fast-acting legislation” which is actually capable of preventing filesharing will by default first impact ordinary businesses and innocent consumers who are far less resilient than even a low-grade ad hoc darknet. You could create coercive legislation until every legal online venue dies…and you’d still have filesharing completely unimpaired and unconnected to any central source.”
      
      Sharing will always exist (I do know this) and there are many ways to do it that are totally anonymous and hidden. At the moment however, it’s not hidden, it’s fully out in the open and their are many companies from large to single person websites teaching generations of surfers “you don’t need to pay for this media, we’ll give it to you for free” which through various means is simply a way where that website can attempt to profit by some unassociated (although sometimes associated) media means. Naturally that will effect the real creators, their current and future media output, the revenues and the security of employess (everyday people who make a living from media creation) amongst other effects. On the other hand, piracy websites are in many cases profitting at creators expense.
      
      I’m not saying that copyright infringement is acceptabe simply because it’s hidden, it is however, a more accpetable alternative to now.
      
      “You claim to be in favor of the internet? Well, I’m sorry but between the internet and enforcement of the copyright monopoly you will just have to choose one. They cannot coexist in practice. The same way you could not prevent people from sharing “undesirable” information with one another in bars without banning public communication altogether – or implementing general and all-inclusive wiretapping.”
      
      There just isn’t any fence to sit on. Either make that choice and come to the conclusion that the internet has to go…or accept the fact that the existence of the internet does in fact render effective copyright enforcement impossible.
      
      I am in favor of the internet, I’ve earned a living here for over a decade but i do disagree that I have to choose one incarnation of the internet. The current laws failed to be effective as little as 6 years ago. Prior to that piracy was really not much of an issue, certainly not like it has been in recent times.
      
      Simple remedy, update the laws. Just because media is easily copied and transferred, there is no reason that the creators of that media (that everybody consumes in one way or another) can’t have more effective laws to use should infringement occur (especially in circumstances with websites/users profit).
      
      “We could, naturally, assume that you are here just in order to troll which of course is a possibility when you fire off half-arsed assertions with no basis in fact on a consistent basis. In which case my words are wasted on you in particular. although possibly not on saner people looking for information.”
      
      You are entitled to your opinion as to whether my posts are trolling or half assed, that’s not something I can do much about. And a persons opinion on my sanity is again, their own opinion. I have my opinions on the sanity of some people here too and certainly as to why they despise companies that wouldn’t effect users surfing habits one way or another if they weren’t repeatedly prodded with a big stick.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “Obviously me and Fredricka are never going to agree on much..”
      
      No, because i, as the European Court, the UN and other large legal panels claim that human rights and civil liberties are more important than the protection of legislative monopolies, and i also claim that illegitimate legislation does not have to be obeyed, rather it should be disobeyed to minimize the harm it causes society.
      
      You disagree, which you have been crystal clear about over that last couple of months. You argue that human rights and civil liberties can not be allowed to stand in the way of protecting an illegitimate legislative monopoly and the profit of weak failed entrepreneurs that can’t handle themselves on the free market, and you reason, as they do in dictatorships, that illegitimate legislation should be obeyed and upheld out of principle.
      
      > “..she comes from country..”
      
      You do not know from what country i come from, You belive it is Sweden but this is not something you know for a fact.
      
      > “..that is for lack of a better description “pro-piracy”..”
      
      No, it is not. It is a country where human rights, free speech and civil liberties is not something that is looked lightly upon. This is why the fully legal website Pirate Bay is allowed to operate from Sweden, and this is why extortion of Internet customers has not yet been introduced there. The opinion of Sweden, the European court, the UN and other institutions, that human rights and civil liberties is more important than protecting a legislative monopoly and weak failed entrepreneurs does not make either of them pro-piracy. Piracy is not and has never been the issue that one has to be for or against.
      
      > “..and it’s somewhat obvious as to her leanings on the subject (which is fine, I lean the other way).”
      
      Yes, but the discusiosn has never been about pro-piracy or against piracy. The discussion is about being for or against human rights and civil liberties, when it’s balanced against protecting an illegitimate legislate monopoly and some weak failed entrepreneurs.
      
      > “She also has no experience earning a living from media online..”
      
      Which you do not know anything about. Your misinterpretation of my previous answer of if i create something does not mean that i don’t create and earn a living from media online. It simply means that unlike you i have integrity and can follow the rules for arguing in a debate, and i would therefore never dream of trying to argue that my personal occupation or experience decides or increases the value of my arguments or the claims i make. They can stand on their own, as all arguments should. Yours on the other hand obviously can’t, and you therefore desperately try to argue that because of your occupation we should value your claims higher, despite that none of your actual arguments are sustainable. In reality, your occupation is completely irrelevant to this debate.
Anonimouse

I like CAM’s they allow me to see if I’m going to be ripped off going to the Cinema, I stopped going to the movies for years until I started downloading now I have returned to the Cinema knowing I’m going to see something worth watching.
http://www.facebook.com/james.duncan.9 James Duncan

“if a movie is not showing in local theaters at all, it definitely has the potential to impact future attendance.”

So if I’m reading this right, they’re complaining that if they do not release the movie in theatres, people will download a DVDrip of it instead of… sitting back and getting nothing? Cheeky bastards.
http://twitter.com/Cazzzababez Carwyn Stephen

Your analogy at the start should be ”Claiming a camcorded copy of a movie seriously impacts box office attendance is the same as arguing that play bootlegs stop people from seeing a play on stage.” Since you can’t really see a film live.
http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

Let’s blame success on pirates too :o
Prudence777

the only people that should worry about piracy are the people who make crappy products. if you make a quality product, people will want to have the best quality. if you make crap, then there is no reason to obtain/watch the original.
Loser

Well the copys are shitty lol. But it does prove that privacy doesnt hurt hollywood
Guest

“Why Pirates Failed To Prevent A Box Office Record”

Unfortunately there is soem idiots who keep giving money to the corporate criminals.

Not only this very detrimental to our freedom and our society but this is a disservice to to this parasites because if they can not be shocked financially they have to be killed. All of them.
Ali

but piracy do damage software industry..!!, and kills thousands of jobs which can be produced even in this high demand of tech pro era
Green_ceaser

It should be re-titled to ‘Why *Piracy* failed to prevent a box-office record.’ because it reads like that was the intentions of the pirates, and also would be more accurate anyway.
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http://twitter.com/BlackLiger Chris

Tip for Holywood, which Marvel/Disney managed to get

Release internationally at pretty much the same time as in the US. Sorry, but 90% of the piracy overseas is because people don’t like waiting nearly a half year to watch your bloody films.
Dustfart

Just because 100, 000 people downloaded it doesn’t mean they didn’t also go to the movie. some people just can’t wait till xmas to open their presents but when they big day arrives they still show up.
guest

“If anything, downloading a camcorded movie could be compared to downloading a low quality bootleg of a concert. People who download these are collectors, passionate fans, or just curious. But in no way do these bootlegs seriously hurt concert attendances.”
Yes, I know when there is a move I am passionate about I can’t wait to collect all the boot leg versions…
http://azkware.wordpress.com/ Carlos Solís

Hollywood will tremble when the common person is able to afford an IMAX 3D Home Theater.
MaddMutt

You can say whatever you want!!!!!
The way I look at it is :
A Cam Copy is only good enough to make me either go and see it at the Movie Theater or save my $$$$ and buy it on DVD/BR (and yes I saw the cam and it made me want to see it even more!!!!)
I loved the movie
Guest

They want to control the industry, so how about starting with the fucking noisy kids and the damn cell phones sitting in the front row while you’re trying to watch a movie. Not to mention the asshole who didn’t wipe his ass sitting next to you. Fuck a theater……
torrentfreak makes bad points

What is the point of this article? I agree that the camcorder release of the film probably didn’t affect ticket sales, but the reason that only a shitty camcorder release was pirated early is because of the laws today designed to protect copyright holders. If there was no law protecting the rights of the content creators, then people would go into a theater, create a high quality version of the movie, and then release it… and that could impact ticket sales.
- Guest
  
  A high quality version of the movie? From camcording? You’re joking, right? No camera will ever come close to capturing the movie, frame for frame, as opposed to, say, copypasting the original file. But then I suppose this was the logic that the MPAA used to claim that camming your own films was the only legal way to back them up. Clearly, you’ve bought into their Hollywood kool-aid.
  
  Douche.
Bob

The concert comparison is a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

The difference between watching a concert at home and being at a concert is much a bigger difference than watching a video at the movies and watching a video at home.
Mr Deep Rawat

Download The Avengers Movie Full : http://downloadtheavengersmovie.shorturl.com/
- http://twitter.com/jonker74 jonker rawat
  
  The link’s Not working I Should Give you the one that is working and is perfect….
  Link : http://www.moviesonmovies.com/download-The-Avengers-movie-6414
Guest

This was supposed to be good news for everyone. Yet somehow it seems that all the trolls have crawled out from each other’s crotches to post in orgasmic glee against everyone.

Really, and they wonder why no one takes them seriously.
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AnalSexWithMarvel

piracy added to the success of this stupid pile shit of a movie.
G87

I don’t think Disney would care at all, considering the movie is owned by Marvel…
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Anonymous

Also interesting, this was released worldwide a week before the US.
ANONYMOUS

The MPAA just doesn’t understand this. Piracy isn’t killing their industry. Badly produced & written movies are. There’s a reason why this Avengers crap became a box office hit. By collecting 7 super heroes.
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Anonymous

0.5% is still 1 million dollars of lost profits. Just sayin.
- Anonymous
  
  You’re assuming that people who don’t download movies will pay to see them at the cinemas, or buy the DVDs, which isn’t necessarily the case at all. This is erroneous MAFIAA-think.
http://profile.yahoo.com/4G2UB2ULJSWGMWBQN2JHH2LN6M Darrell

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Neotoasty

Again, more proof that piracy isn’t a problem. Why do we have to constantly remind them?
a$$a$$in

Not to piss on the bonfire of every journalist, hollywood, disney and any other idiot who thinks Avengers broke a record.

Yes it broke takings record, why, because it costs £9.30 ($15.50) to watch in 3D. Cinema tickets go up about 30-40p a year, OBVIOUSLY the takings are going to be higher you bunch of muppets.

Studios / Cinemas; Why don’t you release the actual attendance figures?

Infact lets do the math $200,000,000 divided by $15.50 = 12,903,225. The US hasa population of 313,513,549. Not alot of people went to watch the Avengers.
- http://twitter.com/erikqj Erik Q.J.
  
  a$$a$$in, what kind of idiot are you? Let me REALLY break the math down to you:
  
  12,903,225 is more than 4% of the population. They got off their asses and went to the theaters to see this movie in less than the span of a month. Have you ever tried to set a date that works for 5 people? 15? 500? Now try to find a month that works for 313,513,549 people!
  
  However, it’s a bit more complex. Here are some further factors:
  
  - Most people can’t do weekdays. That leaves 3 weekends available in the relevant time span, totaling 6-9 days, depending on how you count.
  
  - Only about 190,000,000 (60%) are in the population group 10-54, and only 84,000,000 (27%) in the most relevant range between 15-34.
  
  - If the 75% of theater goers were in the 15-34 age group, that means that 12% in this group went to see The Avengers in the theater mostly in a matter of 6-9 days.
  
  - Let’s assume that the majority, say 75%, of the potential audience are male. There are only 42,000,000 males in this age group. If so, 41% of them went to see The Avengers, mostly during 6-9 days.
  
  - That’s 4.5% to 7% of the most relevant demographic PER DAY.
  
  - That demographic set time aside for Avengers on those days, instead of the hundreds of other things they could’ve, would’ve, and probably should’ve done. They did it instead of shopping, video gaming, visiting parents and grandparents, taking the kids to a park, coming with their parents to the park, house cleaning, TV-watching, Internet surfing, having a beer with friends, watching the game, cleaning the attic, working out, doing their homework, reading that book, hanging out, playing sports, etc.
  
  - This has been a quick and dirty breakdown, and the exact distributions of
  age, sex and days will obviously differ from it. Still, the exact
  numbers will break down to something of a similarly impressive nature.
  
  Conclusion: The fact is that 12,903,225 people in less than a month is a fucking lot of people. Believing that a much higher number would’ve visited under any set of circumstances, be that weather, school holidays, complete TV and Internet blackout, closing of all the country’s comic book stores, or the end of file-sharing, is absolutely delusional.
Guest

i saw the cam…then RAN the night is was released to see it on the big screen too!

it has always been our creed: try it & if ya like it, buy it and support the creators so they can keep producing similar content .
Christophe Thomas

well the only risk movie producers are really taking is that if the movie sucks badly people will not go and buy tickets. How bad it has to suck for this to happen is quite questionable though – just look example above … it s hard to make much worse – still scoring a a shitload of money :)
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Gshock

Saw the Avengers in #d in theaters, was very good and yet I still nabbed a copy before I went to the theaters that I did not watch these piracy experts need to take a lesson in human behavior. Not because we pirate stuff does not mean we do not buy or support the Industry.
http://profile.yahoo.com/LNRNT7XCESEFTW6VCQIXI5J4AA Fleming

what Ruby responded I am taken by surprise that a student able to earn $9854 in 4 weeks on the computer. have you seen this link (Click on menu Home more information) http://goo.gl/TZ1Ei
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http://xpdrivers.com/index.cfm Jayson Kurt

Very pleasant news!
Let us pray that movie tickets go down and piracy stops. :)
Yet Another Guest

I downloaded movies and if it’s good I’d watch it in the movies and if it’s good enough I buy the DVD.

Now shut up, leave me and may wallet alone then lemme finish mah next torrent.
madheadBANGer666

If a movie is great, people will definitely go to the theaters. Watching movies in a 23″ inch monitor with a 2.1 speaker system is no match to the epicness of the theaters. For example, I downloaded Scream 4 via torrent and absolutely liked that. So I went to the theaters only to re experience it. But at the theater, it scared the shit outta me. It was an experience indescribable in words. And the fun multiplies by hundred times if you go to the same theaters with your friends. I still miss the pop-corns and the chit-chat we had during the movies. Watching them alone in your home won’t bring you these kinda fun.

So if the companies are scared of downward trend of their profit, they really should emphasize on making good things rather than going to the court to block the torrent sharing sites.
Avengers made an example that, If the content is good enough, People will surely buy it no matter how severely it was pirated.
http://profile.yahoo.com/FT6JILJRAHSRBH5H57S5TORFMY Dianna

as Walter said I am shocked that some people able to profit $4697 in four weeks on the internet. have you read this web link (Click on menu Home more information) http://goo.gl/m1A3R
Lithiumtoast

Here’s an idea Hollywood: Keep making kick ass movies, especially in 3D. We won’t download shitty cam versions online and you will see you wallets grow bigger. Common sense.
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Nero_me2003

Piracy is not a problem for a movie IF it is made well. In fact movie makers SCAM the audience by making shitty movies just to earn money and not entertain. How do you think movies like Avatar or Dark Knight made BILLIONS of dollars? BILLIONS? YES!

So these profiteers should make good movies and reduce the price if Blu-ray discs to pennies then people would gladly buy their shitty movies. STOP CRYING LIKE A BITCH HOLLYWOOD.
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http://slyck.com/ zbeast

I paid to see it 4 times, i’m not a comic book fan, but this is a well crafted movie with great effects shots… so it’s a must see!…
even if I could have found a perfect copy of the film I still would have paid to see it.
I never seek out good film… cam’s and crap video are fore flicks that you may have little interest in. Would I want to see a cam version of the hobbit.. Hell no, i’m going out, getting a big bag of pop and watching in at the movies.
merlinxi

Don’t worry 700 million in revenue is not enough, they will still sue people.

Im sorry, 1 Billion.
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http://www.facebook.com/SquitoHUN Sándor Varga

Question: “Why Pirates Failed To Prevent A Box Office Record?”
Answer: Pirates don’t prevent box office records. Crappy movies does.
http://profiles.google.com/chrissomerry Christian Meredith

Part of the problem internationally is that the cost of going to the cinema or buying a movie is prohibitive. Just look at all the developing countries out there – they make up the majority, not the minority. I think that basically many of these big companies are expecting to draw blood out of a stone.

That’s not exactly to be unexpected, since all these companies are based in wealthy western countries. But they need to realise that most of their projected “customers” aren’t actually going to be their “customers” and automatically pay, especially if they were born in a country where impulse purchases aren’t so readily possible. In that sense, it may be in the interest of film etc companies to treat (as I think Valve said once) these people less as “pirates” and more as “undeserved consumers”, and rather than writing the piracy off as a loss, look at it increasingly more as advertisement. Blow someone’s mind and they might pay next time, who knows.

I’ll stop there though, since it’s a complex topic, and I don’t know enough to really be even making this opinion.
Knightuvluv

WTF! What makes simple morons think that pirates are out to make them losers in sales of there movies? Dumb ass Mutha Fuckers.

Lots of peeps don’t have the dam money to pay or are in an incapacitated state to see the fuckin movie at theatres.

Piracy don’t hurt but helps certain peeps. Now if you want to go after the Real Pirates, go after the sites that try to make MONEY off of your chit. That’s true piracy you dam fucks.

If I had the power I’d shut all you fuckin money hungry rejects down. Hurt you real bad you putas. LOL
Anonymous

IMO, going out and seeing the avengers movie was just a pop thing to do.

I Dl’d a really clean cam and only watched aboot 15 minutes of it before I deleted it.

It wasn’t even a very good movie.

Piracy doesn’t stop Brittany spears albums from selling like hot cakes either.
Alex

Those who think that theaters are expensive drop by costco pick up some tickets for like 8.50 a pop.
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Anon

I see so many people here talking about buying the disc , why ? i mean yeah the dvd or bluray will give a better picture quality but we are fighting the movie industry every day and i thought we were all boycotting them. If they had not been forced to provide there content on vhs we would never have had dvd movies, so they are making money from something they tried to sue out of existence. Disc sales are an additional revenue stream on top of the theater release, it is not there main income stream, they do not have to sell dvd’s to cover the cost of making the movie, This article shows that if they want to make money from a movie, a) make it worth going to see b) release it worldwide at about the same time c) support torrentting and possibly provide a free copy of the movie in high quality 3 months after the release in the theater. I am prepared to wait 3 months for some movies but i will go to the theater to watch others that i don’t want to wait for. We will then have returned to the days where the movie industry just made money from the cinemas and not from people watching it at home. Even if they want to charge a very small membership fee for the ability to download a good quality unrestricted torrent movie they will just be replacing a revenue stream they did not have years ago with a new one. They will still make billions yes but people will feel willing to pay a small amount if they see the industry at least trying to give people what they want. At the moment the movie industry is so stuck on keeping control of there product they have alienated a lot of potential customers and created an environment where most people would like to see them fail and fail hard.
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firechao

I imagine the most hardcore had a quick look at the cam version and then saw it properly as well
erick

There is a camcorder version of MIB 3 and going to the movies to watch it on 3D. Capitalism won this time xD
lorenza

i know somepoeple who go to the cinima and watch the film then after if they thought it was epic and awesome they then download it until the dvd comes out i wonder how many poeple acutual do this
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Keith Panton

I should direct people to youtube to view the ‘Carpool’ with Graham Linehan, who explains why, even tho he’s someone who creates great sitcoms that come out on DVD, he’s not really against the filesharing online.

Essentially, he says that the vast majority are fans, they’ll be sat over here in the UK, aiting for, for instance, the latest Disney movie. They’re so crazy to see it, they’ll download a crappy cam from America, to sate their appetites until the movie company decides us Brits are worthy of being blessed by a UK cinema release.

Then they’ll be in the queue at the cinema, THEN they’ll buy the special edition Blu Ray.

The reason we’re not buying in many instances is because the industry won’t LET us!

LET us buy your stuff, put things on itunes and amazon download and make sure it’s available, free of ‘added software’ and DRM, and reasonably priced, BEFORE it hits the torrent sites, and hey, maybe you’ll see the fans coming to you instead.

Keep locking your stuff away, behind regional locks, delayed releases, etc, and well, can’t really be surprised that people go to the one place they can see your stuff.

Remember, many piracy sites are asking for ‘donations’ and filesharing sites tend to have ‘premium memberships’, there’s a lot of people paying for stuff, when if the industry would just LET them, they’d pay hollywood and the TV companies instead.
Test

I saw it in both 3D & then again in 2D only a 3 days later with a different group :)

Also 2D makes it easier to watch & you pickup a lot more.
http://www.geeknoob.com/ Kundan Bhardwaj

The best always survives whatever it takes.
Golesy

I’m going to download a DVD rip, becasue its the only way to prove to my parents this movie is worth their money. So my pirating is giving you a sale you never would have had in the first place.

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