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AFACT v iiNet: Judge Asked To Disregard iiNet Evidence

Continuing with his closing submissions, AFACT’s chief barrister claimed there were contradictions in statements given to the court by iiNet witnesses regarding anti-piracy tracking data. On this basis he asked the judge to disregard their evidence, going on to attack claims that the ISP took “reasonable steps” to deal with piracy.

AFACTThe trial continues in the copyright infringement case of AFACT – representing several Hollywood studios – and Aussie ISP iiNet (links to our earlier coverage can be found here) and here.

The case continued in the Federal Court, with AFACT continuing to make its closing submissions, marked by further attempts by barrister Tony Bannon to ruin the credibility of key iiNet witnesses Michael Malone and Steve Dalby.

Referring yet again to iiNet CEO Michael Malone’s earlier and multiple assertions that his company could not disconnect subscribers on mere allegations from a 3rd party, Bannon pointed that Malone had earlier referred to the evidence collected by anti-piracy tracking company DtecNet in a more positive light.

“But when asked the question in cross-examination, the truth is they regarded the notifications as compelling evidence,” said Bannon according to ITNews.

Based on what Bannon tried to insist was a contradiction, that “compelling” and “mere allegations” were incompatible when referring to the same material, Bannon asked the judge to disregard iiNet’s evidence.

Although earlier information about DtecNet’s methods were revealed in a closed-court session, CW reports that the anti-piracy company operated by downloading a portion of a file from iiNet subscribers while recording the IP address, the time of the transfer and the date, the protocol, the client id and a hash value.

Reiterating his earlier claims, Bannon insisted that chief regulatory officer Steve Dalby had deliberately exaggerated his claimed lack of understanding of BitTorrent and the infringement notices sent to iiNet by DtecNet. While Dalby had said that he had waited for AFACT to send more information, in fact internal iiNet email evidence showed that Dalby had discouraged further investigation, he said.

Bannon went on to state that companies like iiNet benefit greatly from illicit file-sharing, since the activity consumes a lot of bandwidth – the commodity the ISP sells to its customers.

Referring to an iiNet press release from late 2008 where the company said it would defend the court case, Bannon said the ISP had stated it could not disconnect a customer on a simple allegation. This, he said, amounted to assuring customers of their safety when carrying out illicit file-sharing.

Earlier in the case, iiNet claimed to have taken “reasonable steps” to deal with infringement on its network, an assertion roundly criticized by Bannon. The AFACT barrister said that iiNet has a technique to limit a subscriber’s access to the Internet if they don’t pay their bills, so this could easily be applied when an allegation of illicit file-sharing is provided by his client.

Bannon also said that since Westnet, the company iiNet had earlier acquired, already had a system in place to notify infringers, it was a “nonsense” to say that iiNet hadn’t got the facilities to deal with AFACT notices.

Bannon went on to tell the court that iiNet’s participation in discussions 4 years ago with the Internet Industry Association to create a code of conduct to deal with copyright infringement allegations, also did not constitute “reasonable steps”, since it didn’t address the “day to day” problems. Furthermore, he said that the overall plan by the ISPs was to aim at “doing nothing”.

Going on to strengthen his claim that iiNet “authorized and encouraged” the infringements of its customers, and in the face of iiNet failing to carry out any actions that could be described as “reasonable steps”, Bannon asserted that this meant that the ISP effectively allowed its subscribers to do whatever they liked on their Internet connection.

The case continues.

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  • fred

    tool -> took

  • shit

    ahhhh

  • Fugasmic

    To me there just doesn’t seem to be have been much of a defence put up against these morons. Maybe it will come in the defences closing argument. I’d be surprised if IInet win because of that but maybe they will touch lucky and get a judge who understands technology. (for a change)

  • Karai

    This should really be a non issue. Removing persons from activities or subscriptions based on a third party saying that person might have done something illegal, is ridiculous, and I think everyone knows this.

    iiNet has simply stated over and over that they are more than willing to take action against their subscribers, as long as the third party who is telling them to do so is the court of law.

    All AFACT needs to do is convince a judge that their evidence is gold, and the judge will issue a court order for iiNet to fire off a letter telling that particular subscriber that they are being watched.

    The problem here is AFACT knows it woudl cost them significantly more money than it’s worth to use the court’s time on every single person on a case by case basis, so they are trying to run around the courts by demanding that iiNet send these letters off to their subscribers without real evidence.

    I really hope the judge in this trial can see exactly what is going on, and puts a stop to it before any real damage is done.

    Innocent until proven guilty.


    PS: Give us blu ray quality, DRM free downloads for a reasonable price, and we’ll be more than willing to buy your movies. Major piracy only happens where there is a need for something, and not a source. Give us what we want, and we will become customers, not enemies.

  • Anonymous

    Bannon asserted that this meant that the ISP effectively allowed its subscribers to do whatever they liked on their Internet connection.

    Well, duh!! It’s not the job of the ISP to police what it’s customers are doing online. Just like it’s not the job of the post to police what’s in the mails people send to each other.

  • anon2

    wonder how Bannon would feel if he tried to use his credit cards, only to find out that he had been reported for fraud and thay had been blocked? a bit pissed, do you think? i can see it now. ‘i paid my bill! you have no right to stop me using my card! where is your proof?sorry sir, that man says you didn’t pay the bill, so we are stopping your credit. if he says so, it must be right, so tuff shit!!!!’

  • James Holdger

    This Bannon looks like some kind of stupid lawyer who’s trying to win the case with legal mumbo-jumbo nonsense rather than to prove the defendants are wrong. Because they’re not!

    iiNet is respecting the current law. It takes an order from the jury to disconnect somebody. Unless AFACT is willing to enter into an agreement with iiNet that they’ll take all responsabilities should iiNet disconnect the wrong customer, there’s nothing they can do.

    AFACT is not the police, AFACT is just nobody, and can’t force anyone to do what they say with their nazi orders.

  • file sharer

    If people were limited by what they could do, innovation would still continue, but in a anonymous form.
    http://www.emule-project.net

  • file sharer_
  • zod

    and i put it to you m’Lord, that he who smelt it, dealt it….

  • Freakazoid

    afact lol more like alie

  • Fenixius

    “Referring to an iiNet press release from late 2008 where the company said it would defend the court case, Bannon said the ISP had stated it could not disconnect a customer on a simple allegation. This, he said, amounted to assuring customers of their safety when carrying out illicit file-sharing.”

    This is an outright lie. iiNet insist that they will follow the letter of the law, act ethically and responsbily, with concern for their consumers and disregard attempts at bullying by AFACT, and Bannon claims that this is tantamount to, and in fact equivalent to condoning copyright infringement.

    Disappointing show of malicious illogic, Mr Bannon.

  • PirLog.com

    What kind of bullshit is this ? How can you expect iiNet to check if users are downloading copyrighted stuff ?? Without a fair trial how can someone say that a person is guilty ?? AFACT is asking for action first questions later kind of system which will work only in a dictatorship.

    http://Pirlog.com

  • gorehound

    This stuff is pure bullshit and any one out there who supports this type of krap is an asshole or a stooge for the bigwig greedbags.
    everyone should be entitled to due process of law…………and that means an investigation by law and an arrest and/or a chance to dispute the “charge” in a court,etc.
    you do not go and accuse someone of a crime with no evidence and no court,etc.this is the krap i am talking of.
    the studios will pay for their krap.i no longer buy any new movies from hollywood.even if i want a movie now i will wait a few weeks and find it used.
    hollywood wants to make war on us technical folks then they lose out.we are not stupid mindless sheep so they better wake up.
    a revolution is in the air people and we will win out.

  • snarl

    what’s with the newegg adverts? they are annoying, lol i dont wanna buy an lcd monitor!

  • Ninja

    Indeed the point is iiNet is refusing to take action without a court ruling they must do it. That’s common sense, if AFACT wants those people disconnected take them to the court and PROVE they are actually dealing damage to the industry.

    We have seen many sane judges ruling against MAFIAA and merry friends over the world simply because those people are not making them lose money by downloading, they are just filtering what they buy.

    Just like its friends, AFACT is disgusting. They are failing miserably in finding a good solution thus relying on such actions to make their money or make things work as they want. Pathetic.

    IiNet can win this case easily. Let us hope the judge is sane enough.

  • No-name

    Why disregard them? Are they scared they didn’t bribe enough? Or did the Judge actually told them to f**koff ’cause they tried to bribe him?
    Look at the little morons getting scared now.

  • omfg

    happy to live in austria where disconnecting without a judge is impossible due to our constitution ;)

  • slightly pissed

    I’m a copyright infringer, a patent abuser, I activally help other’s when I can to get the best from their bandwith and am proud of nothing except my view. I believe that copyright and patents will be outlawed. Unfortunatly people don’t have much control over their destiny at present because every country on this planet is pawned and controlled by an unfair money system and most people don’t realise how unfair the system is. Money is not the problem but rather the ownership of it. We work for the money but we only recieve a small percent of the ownership. We don’t own our own money, nor could we work hard enough under present system to gain equality. We don’t own our own government’s and democracy is a fraud just like the law, bought and sold. Untill the Monetary System fail’s which it will because it’s as unsustainable as the greed it feed’s from, our freedoms that we all expect will alway’s be under threat. Well let the corporate’s do their evil deeds I say, for every hero they knock down they ultimately create another stronger one. So it’s not really a loss. The more we suffer the stronger we become. What does the future hold, nothing that we didn’t start with, Resource’s and people power and a will to share it. There will be enough to go around but not for the eliteist’s cause you won’t be forgotten, your evil deed’s are documented and the rage will not cease even if I contain myself and refrain from cursing and swearing to the point of having my language censored. There will be no mercy for the advocate’s of slavery and the servant’s of the new world order will bleed just like any other animal. Treat us like mongrel bastard’s, we have’t forgotten Gallipoli Bay and it wasn’t the queen or the turk’s that slaughtered the Anzec’s that day. Where are the other ISP’s in this fight, I guess there not in the mood for singing Waltzing Matilda. Well tough shite, you’ll be next!

  • gonewalkabouts

    AFACT
    Can not be the judge and jury.
    or can they down under.

  • gonewalkabouts

    slightly pissed @18

    And what did they die for? Not for the likes of AFACT.

  • slightly pissed

    They fought an unfair fight, A fight they couldn’t win. They did’t know it at the time but their allie’s did.

  • Charlie

    Everyone just needs to start using VPN’s to curtail this ISP takeover bullshit!

  • 000

    Man i hate lawyers!!

  • ohabu

    I don’t get this? Why would they even bother running a case where a random co tries to tell another co (in this case an isp) to disconnect its users?

    If I was iinet I would sue afact for harassment and then laught.

  • truth

    If this case is is won by ALIE then anybody anywhere should be able to accuse anyone (or site) of doing anything that consider wrong, present “evidence” and have them disconnected from the internet. afact.com, cokeacola.com, ibm.com, disney.com, sony.com, …… whitehouse.gov. As a court order, or even real evidence will not be a requirement.

  • viktor

    “Bannon asserted that this meant that the ISP effectively allowed its subscribers to do whatever they liked on their Internet connection.”

    how evil they are!!

  • An interesting thing came up today:

    One of the things about Bannons argument is that with the cost, time and effort involved in “buying” a region encoded, DRM protected, copy of the movie, is the exhorbitant cost of the said product – most of which are not available in Australia;

    That said, if basically all of the downloaders would not have paid for the movie in the first place, how can Bannon and his employers be stating that “it affects their revenue”.

    These people are greedy and dishonest.

  • Just some guy

    Here’s an idea

    If AFACT thinks there is so much money to be made in selling bandwidth to file sharers, why don’t they start their own “copyright free” ISP with an attached tracker. They make bucket loads of money on the bandwidth, customers get full DVD quality copies, and nobody gets harassed.

    Ah, but that would be too simple.

  • Johnm

    So according to the plaintiffs, since everyone is a copyright holder, and everyone is a private entity, just like them, (in the US and EU among other places, everything copyrightable is copyrighted at the moment of creation, the formal registration is an optional practice, i.e. this posting is copyrighted by me and could be the basis of a piracy claim) then everyone can make an allegation to disconect or slow someone’s internet connection?

    How can this be right? I just say “the FBI has downloaded my comment on torrentfreak in violation of my license, this is an unauthorized reproduction” and the FBI has no more internet? Same with every company and person in the world?

    This is ludicrous. Allegations are never enough. How about some proof? They need to go after the infringers and leave the buisnesses and their customers alone. We don’t all need to be paying extra for crappy service cuz some organization wants others to enforce their civil remedies for them.

  • lverona

    All of this is not about logic or valid arguments – all of this is about a steady income and everybody knows it. AFACT is there to ensure they can make lots of money from the industry. They don’t care if it is reasonable or not, they need to find a hole in the law to make it possible to make ISPs disconnect the infringes and that is that.

  • Benny

    Isn’t doing whatever you want on the internet the point of the internet? ha ha. Afact has so much to lose in this trial. if they lose they lose credibility, the guy representing it must be sweating at night. Inet gains popularity as the trial goes on for defending its costumers, and worst comes to worst they simple block the pirate bay and that’s that… which we all know how to get around for sure….

  • kos

    filtering the internet lol
    yeah right Afact impossible no isp can ever do that
    users are way to smart for that
    you find away to block it
    we find away around it

    just take a look at china they tried
    to filter the internet lol people still get around it everyday :)

    Afact your just like every other business you think u know everything and you clearly don’t
    you can only see whats in front of
    you not the big picture

    Society needs to Evolve
    The internet needs to Evolve

    not be held back by the greed business man
    and u dont

  • kos

    and the u dont scratch that lol

  • realityBytes

    The copyright cartels are asking a judge to disregard evidence.

    Everyone is getting a sense of Deja Vu about this aren’t they?

  • www.torrentkid.com

    forget the problem and join the new tracker :)

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