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DRM Troubles Lead to FTC Discussion

Over the past three years, TorrentFreak has reported on various messes generated by DRM, and how that has impacted people all over the world. Now someone has decided it needs looking into, and so the Federal Trade Commission in the US has commissioned a Town Hall meeting on the subject.

no drm pleaseThe flaws of DRM are many and varied, and strike all sides. From Ubisoft using a scene crack to get past its own DRM, to those that bought DRM’d CDs from Sony, and ended up with an exploitable computer because of it.

The story is the same everywhere; DRM has been a hindrance to those who encounter it on original product. However, it is not a hindrance to those that obtain their media via torrents and other peer-to-peer methods, since the files traded on the net don’t contain DRM. These versions are free from restrictions, and that is one of the reasons why Spore was pirated so often.

With DRM having gotten such bad press in general, and probably after receiving lots of complaints, the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has decided to learn more about it. It has announced a town hall meeting, to take place at the University of Washington Law School, in Seattle. The meeting, which will take place in late March, will also be webcast online.

More unusually, to those who have experienced government meetings on these sorts of topics, they’re adopting a very open policy. Not only are they accepting submissions for consideration, but the panelists are not set. In fact, they’re openly accepting requests from those wishing to be panelists, saying they’ll be selecting based on qualifications and the various perspectives. The deadline for responses on both of these is January 30th though, so TorrentFreak readers eager to get involved had better not hang around.

The FTC has discussed DRM before. In 2006, as part of a conference titled “Protecting Consumers in the Next Tech-ade”, there was a panel discussion into DRM and its impact on consumers. Some argued it was good for consumers, allowing them to pay a reduced price for limited access – such as a book someone would only read once (clearly someone hadn’t heard about libraries). Others pointed to a study saying people would pay more for products without DRM, highlighting the fact that prior to DRM, they didn’t have to pay more. Quote of that event though, was Microsoft’s Andrew Moss, who said “What [DRM] is intended to do is give people choices”. Unfortunately, where DRM is concerned, that choice is usually centered around the decision to pirate rather than buy.

The agenda for the new meeting indicates that it will not be plain sailing for those touting DRM. It mentions the burdens on consumers, before it mentions any benefits. That alone should set warning bells ringing in the offices of DRM manufacturers up and down the country. It may be that 2009 will bring the technological change many have hoped for, with common sense finally triumphing over corruption, and giving consumers what they want, not the scraps that copyright owners want to toss them.

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  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

    When the social contract between the state and its people is broken, when the smaller societies exercise an influence over the larger, and the meanest interest lays hold of the name of "public good," the general will stays silent: everyone, guided by secret motives, voice their views no more, and decrees solely for private interests get passed under the name of laws. But the general will can never be exterminated or corrupted; the general will shall always prevail, if not today, at least another day.

    Roze

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

      "the general will shall always prevail, if not today, at least another day."

      That is not true as evidenced many times in the past.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

        It is true, as evidenced many times in the past.

      • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

        It is true, as evidenced many times in the past.

        The general will is always constant, unalterable and pure; but it is subordinated to other wills which encroach upon its sphere. Each person, in detaching his or her interest from the common interest, sees clearly that he or she cannot entirely separate them; but his share in the public mishaps seems to him or her negligible beside the exclusive good he or she aims at making his or her own. Apart from this particular good, he or she wills the general good in his or her own interest, as strongly as any one else. Even in selling his or her vote for money, he or she does not extinguish in him or herself the general will, but only eludes it. The fault he or she commits is that of changing the state of the question, and answering something different from what he or she is asked. Instead of saying, by his or her vote, "It is to the advantage of the State," he or she says, "It is of advantage to this or that person or party that this or that view should prevail." Thus the law of public order in assemblies is not so much to maintain in them the general will as to secure that the question be always put to it, and the answer always given by it.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          How … um, er… vague and open ended. And nonsensical to me.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

          Just because you fail to understand something, does not make it incorrect.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          Well, you have failed to relate it to the issue at hand IMO – I'm having to make asumptions about what it has to do with the discussion at hand. I'm guessing ypu copied and pasted it from elsewhere or loosely adapted it without giving credit.

          From here perhaps: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=6cVgNriRS4cC&

          The first line is at odds with what happens in the real world – unless you give qualications:

          "The general will is always constant, unalterable and pure"

          Is this seriously trying to say that people viewpoints are unable to be atered – what a load of bollocks. because this

          So this quote is trying to say

        • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

          No, I did not adapt whatever random book about Rousseau you linked to, I adapted Rousseau himself. It is especially strange that you have linked to that book, especially since a Google search for the first sentence turns up the result The Social Contract by Jean-Jacques Rousseau rather than whatever random book you have linked to.

          I have definitely not failed to relate it to the issue at hand since it is related.

          Is this seriously trying to say that people viewpoints are unable to be atered
          If you had given any thought about the first line itself, then you would know that it is saying that whatever are the viewpoints of people, whether it regards their particular interests of the general interest of the people, the idea of the general will and common interest itself cannot be changed, nor can the idea be destroyed. Although people may differ on what exactly is the common interest and general will, the idea itself is unalterable and indestructible. The idea of public good shall always be there, and shall eventually prevail, even though, for the time being, it may be encroached upon by interests of factions.

          One would need to be blind to all of history to think that the public good does not prevail, or that tyranny (or other usurpations) lasts forever. Take, for example, the abolition of serfdom.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          Strange? The book is about Rosseau and contains portions of text from his books that you posted, it's hardly random – I didn't spend a great deal of time, I just searched and found your exact words.

          And yes, fair point regarding the viewpoints thing, however I'm reading what you posted which is another persons words that aren't there in their entirety so I can read the semantics either way.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

          No, I did not adapt whatever random book about Rousseau you linked to, I adapted Rousseau himself.

          I have definitely not failed to relate it to the issue at hand since it is related.

          Is this seriously trying to say that people viewpoints are unable to be atered
          If you had given any thought about the first line itself, then you would know that it is saying that whatever are the viewpoints of people, whether it regards their particular interests of the general interest of the people, the idea of the general will and common interest itself cannot be changed, nor can the idea be destroyed. Although people may differ on what exactly is the common interest and general will, the idea itself is unalterable and indestructible. The idea of public good shall always be there, and shall eventually prevail, even though, for the time being, it may be encroached upon by interests of factions.

          One would need to be blind to all of history to think that the public good does not prevail, or that tyranny lasts forever. Take, for example, the abolition of serfdom.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/EZEE EZEE

    "and ended up with an exploitable computer because of it."
    More like, illegally and secretly installed a rootkit on the end users computer and then re-installed the rootkit when it was discovered under the pretense of removing the original rootkit.

    Sony, we have not forgotten neither are we gonna… your ass is grass and we are always going to be the lawnmower.

    Nice article TF, these articles always give me a little hope for today, even if tomorrow those hopes get dashed because morons who cant find their @ssholes from the noses totally mess it up or in the end buy into "industry experts" explanations.

    Instead of having panels and so forth, these damn 'inspectors' should use a little search engine… known as Google… and do a little 'inspecting' on "DRM" a few tech sites and a couple of visits to Wikipedia plus the links from the wikipedia page would do a lot more good than one week with a dozen people from both camps just shouting louder to make their case heard.

    Cheers!
    http://www.eZee.se

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/BenJones BenJones

      "More like, illegally and secretly installed a rootkit on the end users computer and then re-installed the rootkit when it was discovered under the pretense of removing the original rootkit."
      I was trying to be nice about about the rootkit fiasco. :-)

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/EZEE EZEE

        I know, i was not correcting you in anyway…
        just pointing out you are a farrr more forgiving guy than me ;))

  • 

    I have no idea how these panels work but id love to see the stream/discussion about it for sure.
    Hope there will be smart people with good understanding of the BIG PICTURE and the future :)

    DRM has long fingers across the world, it should be stopped before it goes to far.
    People have fought wars to have certain rights, millions have died, DRM is all about absolute power, absolute control of property and peoples behavior.
    DRM is part of the essence that has been fought against for generations in many countries around the world.

    DRM is a terror tool, to force behavior and control on the many weak by the few powerfull, an enslavement tool.
    You cannot control people, but it has been an obsession by those with power since time began and it has been faught for always. Today it is virtual enslavement, it is virtual rights, its virtual property, intellectual property.
    Some believe it doesnt exist you have no "digital" rights, well then you should have no "intellectual" property since there would be no sutch thing.
    Its complex and its always about power over others, enslavement and domination, terror and control..

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

      ROFLMAO,it always takes a genuine raving idiot to make me really laugh these days. Get off the drugs unless you schizophrenic, in that case resume taking them. Or not, then you could post again and provide more laughs..

      "DRM is all about absolute power, absolute control of property and peoples behavior. "

      DRM has no power ramifications other than to prevent you copying content which you had a choice to purchase in the first place. Also, like many paranoid raving twits you're grouping together governments and corporate entities which flies in the face of reality (not that you appear to take much notice of reality but rather rely on paranoid fantasy in your own mind). In case you hadn't noticed, the Goverment is in power and they are organising discussions about DRM.

      "DRM is a terror tool" … "an eslavement tool".

      Those two are just ridiculous to the point of hilarity. No one is forcing anyone to purchase products with DRM or run them. Entirely voluntary.

      "terror and control"

      Right. DRM is terrifying the population. We are all cowering in the face of terrifying DRM.

      I don't support DRM by any means but your post is ridiculous to the point of hilarity. I hope to God you don't run those lines at Government and tarnish the rest of us with that crap.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/zarathustra zarathustra

        Posted any russian snuff movies lately, 'NubCakes'?

        Netscum…

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          alright, what gives… this is the second time someone has said this. Seriously, I don't know what you're talking about.

        • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          alright, what gives… this is the second time someone has said this. Seriously, I don't know what you're talking about.

          Please explain yourself.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/zarathustra zarathustra

          Here you are, linking to it:

          http://torrentfreak.com/the-inside-story-of-the-a

          Backpeddle much…?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          Ok, now I see what you're saying and that is disgusting :(. I didn't post that, it was someone using my name to screw me up. Before Intensedebate was added here it was possible to do that and it happened a few other times.

          Probaly you won't believe me though :( Oh well, not much I can do except ask for it to be removed.

        • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          Ok, now I see what you're saying and that is disgusting :(. I didn't post that, it was someone using my name to screw me over. Before IntenseDebate was added here it was possible to do that and it happened a few other times that I know of.

          Probaly you won't believe me though :( Oh well, not much I can do except ask for it to be removed is there.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/zarathustra zarathustra

          If that is the case then you have my humble apologies. :) I hate snuff almost as much as cp…

        • Lerianis

          Yeah, Nubcakes…. look at your link in the thread that zarathustra links to, and you will see what the fucking problem is.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

        has no power ramifications other than to prevent you copying content which you had a choice to purchase in the first place
        WRONG.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          Oh? What other power does it provide?

        • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

          If you even read this article, or knew anything about DRM, then you would know what is wrong with the comment.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          Oh, right doubtless I'm a hired advocate, right. You keep on believing that, I don't really care as it seems to be a somewhat standard response to people that question you.

          Would be nice though if you could answer the question I posed seeing as I don't see what your talking about. Seriously, please tell us what power it provides.

        • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

          Oh, right doubtless I'm a hired advocate, right. You keep on believing that, I don't really care as it seems to be a somewhat standard response to people that question you.

          Would be nice though if you could answer the question I posed seeing as I don't see what your talking about. Please tell us what power it provides over people as I don't see what you're talking about.

          Also, try to be specific rather than posting something very vague and open ended

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

          There are, in fact, two things wrong with your statement, since you have actually made two statements. Firstly, although it is a voluntary power ramification, it is still a power ramification. Secondly, it does nothing like "preventing copying" whatsoever.

        • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

          There are, in fact, two things wrong with your statements, since you have actually made two statements. Firstly, although it is a voluntary power ramification, it is still a power ramification. Secondly, it does nothing like "preventing copying" whatsoever.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/b3nw b3nw

        no one forces people to use something, a free market will punish (GM, Ford?) those who fail to meet its demand. The terrorist stuff is laughable though.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Roze Roze

    When the social contract between the state and its people is broken, when the smaller societies exercise an influence over the larger, and the meanest interest lays hold of the name of "public good," the general will stays silent: everyone, guided by secret motives, voice their views no more, and decrees solely for private interests get passed under the name of laws. But the general will shall always prevail, for it is indestructible. The general will can never be exterminated or corrupted. The general will shall always prevail, if not today, at least another day.

  • Rekrul

    Anyone who believes that this will lead to any kind of restrictions on DRM, or to the easing of the DMCA’s circumvention rules, is dreaming. The most that will come of this is that companies MIGHT be forced to add a small warning on the package that the product contains DRM. That’s all.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

    What are you talking about… those games have been cracked and downloaded by many.

    • lol

      yeah i have all those lol. but what I shoulda added to my previous comment is that I DO indeed purchase material worth buying, but not before pirating it and running it on my system and making sure its good.

      Demos dont do it for me. only pirating the real deal.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/NubCakes NubCakes

        Even if you purchase you may as well used the downloaded version and avoid the DRM

        • CMG

          My apologies, I was unclear. The original comment I replied to was talking about purchasing games, the whole "you.will.not.get.my.money" thing. Most of the forementioned games are excellent when played online.

          The point of my comment, I agree. It's a shame companies are hurting the customers for buying the game, while pirates like ourselves enjoy a fully working product with no hidden software. My sympathy goes to the customers.

  • ohmuhlawd

    "When the social contract between the state and its people is broken, when the smaller societies exercise an influence over the larger, and the meanest interest lays hold of the name of "public good," the general will stays silent: everyone, guided by secret motives, voice their views no more, and decrees solely for private interests get passed under the name of laws. But the general will can never be exterminated or corrupted; the general will shall always prevail, if not today, at least another day."

    …wat?

  • ste
    • Jimmy bob

      LOL
      They really are quite amusing.

    • Amused

      I lol'd.

  • lol

    have all the stupid meetings you want, still never ever going to buy something with drm. case closed.

    you.will.not.get.my.money.

    i.will.only.download.via.P2P.

    find another way or become dust.. i really dont care. theres just some people that will refuse to be scammed in any way sense or form.. go waste your time on other mindless morons who will buy anything you put in front of them.

    Pirate for life.

    • CMG

      Then you're missing out on a good few games. The response to DRM was people downloading them 'illegally' because dedicated teams like RELOADED and such crack the DRM for us. But you'd be missing out on the likes of Red Alert 3, possibly FarCry 2, I think Fallout 3 might have it, I dunno.

      This is old news TF, I think this happened on something like Thursday??

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/mister_playboy mister_playboy

    On a related note, Apple apparently finally gave up on DRM for iTunes music:
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10132759-37.htm

  • http://beret.tumblr.com this is fake

    We need to get Lawrence Lessig to be a panelist for thsthis

  • groinshot

    Wahey, thanks very much, I splash out and pay 60 quid for this to find out I cant play it now? how nice of microsoft.

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